Guild Wars 2

tkalamba.2541:

Nerth.3940:

Loosifah.4739:

My argument isn’t that adding a new tier isn’t vertical. My argument is that they never promised exotic would be the last tier; that was an assumption on your part.

They have promised that they wouldn’t be adding a new tier every three months(Which people are picking apart), but the reason it was worded that was is because everyone was screaming “WHAT IF THEY ADD A NEW TIER EVERY THREE MONTHS!?”

Clearly you don’t want to or can’t understand. I will give you one final example.

Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.
-Mike Obrien

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills
-Colin Johanson

Let’s take WoW for example. Why are you running the same dungeons over and over and over again? To get better gear because the next dungeon is impossible to complete without gear from the previous one.

What are we getting? New armor with better stats because the new dungeon will be impossible to complete without this gear.

Do you see the resemblance?

It doesn’t matter if it’s every 3 months, ever 3.5 months, every 5 months … When you need to have better gear to complete a new dungeon you have vertical progression and you have to get that gear to be able to finish it. See where this is going? New gear is not optional anymore, it’s mandatory.

Now, please read the second quote again.

It’s an uncompletable dungeon. It doesnt finish….. and you can still experience all 9 fractals without Ascended gear. This means it’s not gated content, therefore the Ascended gear is not mandatory. If there’s no end to it, and it resets everyweek…. then you may never need to bother with Ascended gear, as you still have access to all the content and the option of doing the dungeon. You can still WvW, you can still Spvp.

Nothing at all will be locked out to you. You can even still do the difficult portions of the dungeon, all it is a resistance, not a 100% immunity. Sure at a certain point you will need to mitigate Agony, but you can still do the entire fractal at a lower difficulty, over and over and over again.

If you want to be on an even playing field in wvw you absolutely will need it.

It raises the ceiling post release. If you are serious about competing in WVW, ascended gear will not be optional.

Loosifah.4739:

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

They actually have stated that exotic would be the final, best gear. They also stated that they wanted exotics to be easy to get.

A company sells their product on a promise, a manifesto that there would be no gated gear, no gear treadmill, no power creep. A promise that this MMO would be different.

Well, turns out that the entire time they have been developing gated gear with a power creep.

Why have they been developing this feature that was not needed when so many things in the game are broken?

The storyline is mediocre, at best. Whoever thought we should all play right hand to Treebeard the magnificent should feel bad.

The camera is still wonky.

Free transfers are still ruining WvW.

Bot problems.

The man running the economy doesn’t know anything about economics.

Broken events, broken quests, broken skills.

All of these problems that need to be addressed, and what did they spend my money on? Something I didn’t want, something I stopped playing other MMOs because of it.

Power creep. That’s all it is folks, don’t try to cherry coat it.

Should Anet continue on their current design model this game will just be another burnt out husk we will all refer to as another failed WoW clone.

Where/When did they state Exotics are the final tier?

When they promised no gated gear and no power creep. In their manifesto.

That never said Exotics were the last tier we would see. All it said was Legendaries would always be the Best in Slot items.

But they did say that there wouldn’t be power creep or gated gear.

This implies exotic is the final tier.

Just because you cannot read, doesn’t mean everyone else cannot.

Just because that’s what you got from it doesn’t make it true.

And just because it wasn’t implemented straight out the door doesn’t mean they lied. It’s possible it was meant to be implemented from the start, they just hadn’t finished it yet.

You’re right, it is no longer true because they broke their promise, and broke their manifesto.

Thank you for finally understanding.

You know, this thread should be closed already it is becoming a flame war… ArenaNet has the feedback now, let them decide.

I’m pretty sure the decision is made already, and is not the one we were expecting.

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

They actually have stated that exotic would be the final, best gear. They also stated that they wanted exotics to be easy to get.

A company sells their product on a promise, a manifesto that there would be no gated gear, no gear treadmill, no power creep. A promise that this MMO would be different.

Well, turns out that the entire time they have been developing gated gear with a power creep.

Why have they been developing this feature that was not needed when so many things in the game are broken?

The storyline is mediocre, at best. Whoever thought we should all play right hand to Treebeard the magnificent should feel bad.

The camera is still wonky.

Free transfers are still ruining WvW.

Bot problems.

The man running the economy doesn’t know anything about economics.

Broken events, broken quests, broken skills.

All of these problems that need to be addressed, and what did they spend my money on? Something I didn’t want, something I stopped playing other MMOs because of it.

Power creep. That’s all it is folks, don’t try to cherry coat it.

Should Anet continue on their current design model this game will just be another burnt out husk we will all refer to as another failed WoW clone.

Where/When did they state Exotics are the final tier?

When they promised no gated gear and no power creep. In their manifesto.

That never said Exotics were the last tier we would see. All it said was Legendaries would always be the Best in Slot items.

But they did say that there wouldn’t be power creep or gated gear.

This implies exotic is the final tier.

Just because you cannot read, doesn’t mean everyone else cannot.

One addition is not power creep. Now if they added a couple more tiers, I’d say they it is, but right now, I would say not.

Nothing is gated, you can still experience 100% of the content without Ascended gear. You can still fight all the bosses in the dungeon, you can still see all 9 fractals, you can still collect relics. You can do it all. You can even change the difficulty all you want. Agony kicks in at level 10? Just do the dungeon at level 9. The only thing you miss out on is Agony.

I can read just fine, I also don’t dig into quoted text looking for messages that aren’t there. The quotes I’ve seen all explicitly state that the rarest items (Legendary) will always be equal to the highest tier item. None of that has changed in the slightest.

i agree with you there yamiino

The moderator stil delete all of my post against this update.The proof that they wanna shout down this post and all of Gw1 fan that are against.

Sennar I’ve been suspended for 24 hours twice from the forums for infraction in this thread alone defending the update. So your logic there fails.

tkalamba.2541:

It’s an uncompletable dungeon. It doesnt finish….. and you can still experience all 9 fractals without Ascended gear. This means it’s not gated content, therefore the Ascended gear is not mandatory. If there’s no end to it, and it resets everyweek…. then you may never need to bother with Ascended gear, as you still have access to all the content and the option of doing the dungeon. You can still WvW, you can still Spvp.

Nothing at all will be locked out to you. You can even still do the difficult portions of the dungeon, all it is a resistance, not a 100% immunity. Sure at a certain point you will need to mitigate Agony, but you can still do the entire fractal at a lower difficulty, over and over and over again.

Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must.

Source: http://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

English is not my first language but if I remember correctly, must is a verb expressing necessity.

I can’t find the link to the video, would appreciate if someone could.

" Colin announced the Legendary Weapons that exist. Eric followed up saying that Legendary weapons are like exotic weapons, but better looking. Where Exotic weapons may have the best stats, Legendary weapons offer beauty – but never better stats."

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:News#Eric_Flannum_and_Colin_Johanson_give_some_insight_on_End-game_activities.

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

They actually have stated that exotic would be the final, best gear. They also stated that they wanted exotics to be easy to get.

A company sells their product on a promise, a manifesto that there would be no gated gear, no gear treadmill, no power creep. A promise that this MMO would be different.

Well, turns out that the entire time they have been developing gated gear with a power creep.

Why have they been developing this feature that was not needed when so many things in the game are broken?

The storyline is mediocre, at best. Whoever thought we should all play right hand to Treebeard the magnificent should feel bad.

The camera is still wonky.

Free transfers are still ruining WvW.

Bot problems.

The man running the economy doesn’t know anything about economics.

Broken events, broken quests, broken skills.

All of these problems that need to be addressed, and what did they spend my money on? Something I didn’t want, something I stopped playing other MMOs because of it.

Power creep. That’s all it is folks, don’t try to cherry coat it.

Should Anet continue on their current design model this game will just be another burnt out husk we will all refer to as another failed WoW clone.

Where/When did they state Exotics are the final tier?

When they promised no gated gear and no power creep. In their manifesto.

That never said Exotics were the last tier we would see. All it said was Legendaries would always be the Best in Slot items.

But they did say that there wouldn’t be power creep or gated gear.

This implies exotic is the final tier.

Just because you cannot read, doesn’t mean everyone else cannot.

One addition is not power creep. Now if they added a couple more tiers, I’d say they it is, but right now, I would say not.

Nothing is gated, you can still experience 100% of the content without Ascended gear. You can still fight all the bosses in the dungeon, you can still see all 9 fractals, you can still collect relics. You can do it all. You can even change the difficulty all you want. Agony kicks in at level 10? Just do the dungeon at level 9. The only thing you miss out on is Agony.

I can read just fine, I also don’t dig into quoted text looking for messages that aren’t there. The quotes I’ve seen all explicitly state that the rarest items (Legendary) will always be equal to the highest tier item. None of that has changed in the slightest.

Actually, yes, it is still power creep. It’s slow power creep, but it’s still there.

It’s also not the last time they will do this. Murdock’s blog post clearly states that this is only the start of “personal” progression and that more gated content is on the way.

Snerf.1650:

tkalamba.2541:

Nerth.3940:

Loosifah.4739:

My argument isn’t that adding a new tier isn’t vertical. My argument is that they never promised exotic would be the last tier; that was an assumption on your part.

They have promised that they wouldn’t be adding a new tier every three months(Which people are picking apart), but the reason it was worded that was is because everyone was screaming “WHAT IF THEY ADD A NEW TIER EVERY THREE MONTHS!?”

Clearly you don’t want to or can’t understand. I will give you one final example.

Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.
-Mike Obrien

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills
-Colin Johanson

Let’s take WoW for example. Why are you running the same dungeons over and over and over again? To get better gear because the next dungeon is impossible to complete without gear from the previous one.

What are we getting? New armor with better stats because the new dungeon will be impossible to complete without this gear.

Do you see the resemblance?

It doesn’t matter if it’s every 3 months, ever 3.5 months, every 5 months … When you need to have better gear to complete a new dungeon you have vertical progression and you have to get that gear to be able to finish it. See where this is going? New gear is not optional anymore, it’s mandatory.

Now, please read the second quote again.

It’s an uncompletable dungeon. It doesnt finish….. and you can still experience all 9 fractals without Ascended gear. This means it’s not gated content, therefore the Ascended gear is not mandatory. If there’s no end to it, and it resets everyweek…. then you may never need to bother with Ascended gear, as you still have access to all the content and the option of doing the dungeon. You can still WvW, you can still Spvp.

Nothing at all will be locked out to you. You can even still do the difficult portions of the dungeon, all it is a resistance, not a 100% immunity. Sure at a certain point you will need to mitigate Agony, but you can still do the entire fractal at a lower difficulty, over and over and over again.

If you want to be on an even playing field in wvw you absolutely will need it.

It raises the ceiling post release. If you are serious about competing in WVW, ascended gear will not be optional.

I compete just fine without full exotics. You’re talking about a game mode that rarely involves 1 on 1 encounters. A vast majority of people who play it competitively do not solo WvW. We all run in groups, and when faced with numbers, your individual stats mean nothing. WvW is not balanced in the slightest, and not every opponent you face will be on equal footing. It’s not like gear is the only thing that gives you a boost, I can trait for an additional 200 toughness and it wont make me unbeatable. The +5 power and +5 precision from a ring won’t make much of a difference.

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

They actually have stated that exotic would be the final, best gear. They also stated that they wanted exotics to be easy to get.

A company sells their product on a promise, a manifesto that there would be no gated gear, no gear treadmill, no power creep. A promise that this MMO would be different.

Well, turns out that the entire time they have been developing gated gear with a power creep.

Why have they been developing this feature that was not needed when so many things in the game are broken?

The storyline is mediocre, at best. Whoever thought we should all play right hand to Treebeard the magnificent should feel bad.

The camera is still wonky.

Free transfers are still ruining WvW.

Bot problems.

The man running the economy doesn’t know anything about economics.

Broken events, broken quests, broken skills.

All of these problems that need to be addressed, and what did they spend my money on? Something I didn’t want, something I stopped playing other MMOs because of it.

Power creep. That’s all it is folks, don’t try to cherry coat it.

Should Anet continue on their current design model this game will just be another burnt out husk we will all refer to as another failed WoW clone.

Where/When did they state Exotics are the final tier?

When they promised no gated gear and no power creep. In their manifesto.

That never said Exotics were the last tier we would see. All it said was Legendaries would always be the Best in Slot items.

But they did say that there wouldn’t be power creep or gated gear.

This implies exotic is the final tier.

Just because you cannot read, doesn’t mean everyone else cannot.

One addition is not power creep. Now if they added a couple more tiers, I’d say they it is, but right now, I would say not.

Nothing is gated, you can still experience 100% of the content without Ascended gear. You can still fight all the bosses in the dungeon, you can still see all 9 fractals, you can still collect relics. You can do it all. You can even change the difficulty all you want. Agony kicks in at level 10? Just do the dungeon at level 9. The only thing you miss out on is Agony.

I can read just fine, I also don’t dig into quoted text looking for messages that aren’t there. The quotes I’ve seen all explicitly state that the rarest items (Legendary) will always be equal to the highest tier item. None of that has changed in the slightest.

But I believe that’s flawed thinking. When discussing design principles, you don’t just get a pass because you only deviate once. One extra tier added post launch is just as harmful to the “no vertical progression” model as 5 or 10. It sets up precedence that it is an okay option to take.

You either develop for a horizontal plateaued end game, or you don’t. It defines how big decisions are made.

No his post said they would continue to release more ascended items. They never said they would be higher tier than the already existing ones. Just more.

tkalamba.2541:

you can still collect relics.

You get 5 relics per run.

A Gift of Ascension costs 500 relics.
A Simple Infusion costs 75 relics, a Versaile Infusion costs 225.
A Prototype Fractal Capacitor (backpiece) costs 1350 relics.

They never said officially that you only get 5 per run. They also never stated if the value would go up with the difficulty.

chronus.1326:

tkalamba.2541:

you can still collect relics.

You get 5 relics per run.
A Simpl Infusion costs 75 relics, a Versaile Infusion costs 225.
A Prototype Fractal Capacitor (backpiece) costs 1350 relics.

At level 1 you get 5 per run. No one knows how many we get for more levels.

Namu.5712:

Urxx.6840:

Loosifah.4739:

Urxx.6840:

Snerf.1650:

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

There are a third option, and it’s the one we prefer.

Let them know through the official forums in a clear, respectful manor why we disagree with the design choice in the time leading up to and immediately after the implementation.

I’m not advocating something ridiculous like trying to get a refund on a product someone has already spent many presumably enjoyable hours on.

But letting a company know why you are dissatisfied with their product has a lot of value to the company.

I don’t think that’s ridiculous. If it turns out the product I bought is not the one that was advertised to me, I have every right to stop using that product and get my money back.

So by adding a new tier of equipment it’s not what they advertized and you should get a full refund after you’ve cost them money by hosting the servers for you to play on for 600 hours? Nice logic.

For me that extra tier means I can’t enjoy the game anymore. I bought the game based on the fact they advertised that there wasn’t nor the would have been vertical gear progression in the game. I can tell you for sure I wouldn’t have bought it otherwise.

If they break their part of the sale contract, the fundamental characteristics of the good or service, I can break mine, which is the compensation.

That said, if I wanted my money I wouldn’t have bought the game in the first place. So I still hope they retract and I can get the game I was promised.

I am sorry but when you buy a console game or rpg/single player or even multiplayer game you cant get a refund after 3 months of playing because you decided the update they made wasn’t in line with what they said a year or two ago.

You purchased a product you did not however purchase a service.

And trying to prove you were lied to based on your take on words in an announcement based on a patch that isn’t even technically released yet is laughable.

Good luck with that in court eyeroll

You can try to discourge ppl as much as you want, in europe the laws are different and costumers are respected, when you buy something online, you will have alot more law protections to make that refund possible, im not sure how it works in American continent, but the laws of America Costumer Support does not apply in EU, furthermore ppl have been refunded since yesterday.

chronus.1326:

You get 5 relics per run.

Technically, one run is at the minimum 3 fractals so 3×5=15 relics. At which point you are back in a safe room. Then you can do 3 more fractals at the higher difficulty, then you get a boss.

What is a run in a endless dungeon really?

Or you know they could’ve just not had a stat increase at all and increased the power gain on the infusions to compensate, since it would only impact that particular dungeon. At that point, Exotic and Ascended would be equal everywhere outside of that particular dungeon. But no. They had to add a stat increase to appease the crowd that views progression as something that comes expressly from stat increases, which goes against the philosophical position the company was founded on and what they sold to us.

They also haven’t tried to fight the refunds.

chronus.1326:

tkalamba.2541:

you can still collect relics.

You get 5 relics per run.

A Gift of Ascension costs 500 relics.
A Simple Infusion costs 75 relics, a Versaile Infusion costs 225.
A Prototype Fractal Capacitor (backpiece) costs 1350 relics.

You get 5 per fractal, 3 fractals per run. We also don’t know if additional fractals drop from killing the boss after 3 fractals, or if they scale up with difficulty. You can get a simple infusion at 5 sets of fractals… We also do not know the Prototype Fractal Capacitor is even a back piece. You can probably run the Fractals at difficulty 5, not encounter Agony, and increase the rate of drops.

tkalamba.2541:

Snerf.1650:

tkalamba.2541:

Nerth.3940:

Loosifah.4739:

My argument isn’t that adding a new tier isn’t vertical. My argument is that they never promised exotic would be the last tier; that was an assumption on your part.

They have promised that they wouldn’t be adding a new tier every three months(Which people are picking apart), but the reason it was worded that was is because everyone was screaming “WHAT IF THEY ADD A NEW TIER EVERY THREE MONTHS!?”

Clearly you don’t want to or can’t understand. I will give you one final example.

Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.
-Mike Obrien

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills
-Colin Johanson

Let’s take WoW for example. Why are you running the same dungeons over and over and over again? To get better gear because the next dungeon is impossible to complete without gear from the previous one.

What are we getting? New armor with better stats because the new dungeon will be impossible to complete without this gear.

Do you see the resemblance?

It doesn’t matter if it’s every 3 months, ever 3.5 months, every 5 months … When you need to have better gear to complete a new dungeon you have vertical progression and you have to get that gear to be able to finish it. See where this is going? New gear is not optional anymore, it’s mandatory.

Now, please read the second quote again.

It’s an uncompletable dungeon. It doesnt finish….. and you can still experience all 9 fractals without Ascended gear. This means it’s not gated content, therefore the Ascended gear is not mandatory. If there’s no end to it, and it resets everyweek…. then you may never need to bother with Ascended gear, as you still have access to all the content and the option of doing the dungeon. You can still WvW, you can still Spvp.

Nothing at all will be locked out to you. You can even still do the difficult portions of the dungeon, all it is a resistance, not a 100% immunity. Sure at a certain point you will need to mitigate Agony, but you can still do the entire fractal at a lower difficulty, over and over and over again.

If you want to be on an even playing field in wvw you absolutely will need it.

It raises the ceiling post release. If you are serious about competing in WVW, ascended gear will not be optional.

I compete just fine without full exotics. You’re talking about a game mode that rarely involves 1 on 1 encounters. A vast majority of people who play it competitively do not solo WvW. We all run in groups, and when faced with numbers, your individual stats mean nothing. WvW is not balanced in the slightest, and not every opponent you face will be on equal footing. It’s not like gear is the only thing that gives you a boost, I can trait for an additional 200 toughness and it wont make me unbeatable. The +5 power and +5 precision from a ring won’t make much of a difference.

First of all, it adds up to more than plus 5 to a stat as currently designed.

Second, it doesn’t matter how small of an advantage it gives. My interest is in open WVW small group skirmish action. In these scenarios the smallest bit can help. There is no reason to add ascension gear hurdles to WVW.

Like I said earlier, if it’s inconsequential than it’s pointless, and if it makes a difference it’s another stepping stone to enjoying that area of the game.

Other serious WVW people will run it. To be on even footing, you or I will need to as well.

http://www.gw2db.com/items/63468-sunrise

Weapon Strength: 1011 – 1117
+182 Power
+130 Toughness
+130 Vitality
(Legendary.)

http://www.gw2db.com/items/48101-invaders-greatsword

Weapon Strength: 995 – 1100
+179 Power
+128 Toughness
+128 Vitality
(From PVP)

http://www.gw2db.com/items/62818-dark-asuran-greatsword

Weapon Strength: 995 – 1100
+128 Power
+179 Condition Damage
+128 Vitality

(From dungeons)

http://www.gw2db.com/items/56632-clerics-pearl-broadsword

Weapon Strength: 995 – 1100
+128 Power
+179 Healing
+128 Toughness

(From Crafting)

http://www.gw2db.com/items/52739-carrion-forest-greatsword-of-rage

Weapon Strength: 995 – 1100
+128 Power
+179 Condition Damage
+128 Vitality

(Random Drop)

2 stats in the secondary and a mighty difference of 3 in the primary.

The stat difference between exotic and ascended is far more than that.

tkalamba.2541:

Where/When did they state Exotics are the final tier?

It’s right here for you, in plain English.

Lindsay Murdock:

As we watch Guild Wars 2 mature in its Live environment, we have found that our most dedicated players were achieving their set of Exotic gear and hitting “the Legendary wall.” We designed the process of getting Legendary gear to be a long term goal, but players were ready to start on that path much sooner than we expected and were becoming frustrated with a lack of personal progression.

Exotic gear was supposed to be endgame gear. it WAS endgame gear. But then they realized they had made a mistake. They had underestimated the average player’s progression. So to repair a mistake they did a bigger one and decided they would declass exotics and introduce ascended.

If players dind’t hit the legendary wall this quick, we wouldn’t have ascended. It’s right there, in the words of an ANet’s representative.

But we did because THEY made a mistake.

And so now the players who invested in exotics will pay ANet’s misjudgement.

Simple.

And sad.

Cactus Brawler.7415:

http://www.gw2db.com/items/63468-sunrise

Weapon Strength: 1011 – 1117

Stop right there crimi…

Wait.

GW2DB uses a beta or pre beta database and is outdated. Don’t link to it. Especially the legendary stats are wrong.

i’m actually against that, they can add more paths np, but not delete others for it, i think they should leave the content they make in

tkalamba.2541:

We also do not know the Prototype Fractal Capacitor is even a back piece.

It is. Or a mystic forge element of the back piece.

Again semantics. They said legendary is on terms with exotic. They also said legendary will equal top in slot gear. They never said exotic would always be top in slot. Therefore legendary = whatever top in slot is. Therefore legendary = ascended now.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that you may have misinterpreted?

Loosifah.4739:

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

tkalamba.2541:

veritech.1048:

They actually have stated that exotic would be the final, best gear. They also stated that they wanted exotics to be easy to get.

A company sells their product on a promise, a manifesto that there would be no gated gear, no gear treadmill, no power creep. A promise that this MMO would be different.

Well, turns out that the entire time they have been developing gated gear with a power creep.

Why have they been developing this feature that was not needed when so many things in the game are broken?

The storyline is mediocre, at best. Whoever thought we should all play right hand to Treebeard the magnificent should feel bad.

The camera is still wonky.

Free transfers are still ruining WvW.

Bot problems.

The man running the economy doesn’t know anything about economics.

Broken events, broken quests, broken skills.

All of these problems that need to be addressed, and what did they spend my money on? Something I didn’t want, something I stopped playing other MMOs because of it.

Power creep. That’s all it is folks, don’t try to cherry coat it.

Should Anet continue on their current design model this game will just be another burnt out husk we will all refer to as another failed WoW clone.

Where/When did they state Exotics are the final tier?

When they promised no gated gear and no power creep. In their manifesto.

That never said Exotics were the last tier we would see. All it said was Legendaries would always be the Best in Slot items.

But they did say that there wouldn’t be power creep or gated gear.

This implies exotic is the final tier.

Just because you cannot read, doesn’t mean everyone else cannot.

Just because that’s what you got from it doesn’t make it true.

And just because it wasn’t implemented straight out the door doesn’t mean they lied. It’s possible it was meant to be implemented from the start, they just hadn’t finished it yet.

That is true in the same way that making a new tier every 2 days is not vertical progression, because they never said any of them were the last tier, is true.

Any game or game company could say almost anything and not be wrong if they could just get away with saying that it is not finished yet lol. They never said that gw2 would not be a racing simulation game either, lol.

However, we had gear, it progressed vertically… vertical progression of gear?

It was also stated harder difficulty gets you more relics. So it’s possible “good” (heavily farmed) players can get 300+ fractals in a run. . . Which will shortly be nerfed so all the people who do it right away get tons of obsidian shards, screw the economy up more, and then complain about nothing to do in 4 days anyway while our relic rate gets nerf by 5’000%.

Awesome!

stof.9341:

chronus.1326:

You get 5 relics per run.

Technically, one run is at the minimum 3 fractals so 3×5=15 relics. At which point you are back in a safe room. Then you can do 3 more fractals at the higher difficulty, then you get a boss.

What is a run in a endless dungeon really?

It is something I do not want to do.

It is something ANet told me they wouldn’t force me to do in order to be “just as powerful” as somebody else.

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

Mike O’Brien

- Except Ascended Gear

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you dont need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but its not required to play the game. We dont need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who dont are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

Colin Johanson

- Unless it’s Ascended Gear

stof.9341:

Cactus Brawler.7415:

http://www.gw2db.com/items/63468-sunrise

Weapon Strength: 1011 – 1117

Stop right there crimi…

Wait.

GW2DB uses a beta or pre beta database and is outdated. Don’t link to it. Especially the legendary stats are wrong.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sunrise

You’re right though, slight stat change it no longer has the 17 weapon strength.

995–1,100
+179 Power
+128 Toughness
+128 Vitality

https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Einige-Fragen-zum-November-Update-mit-Blick-auf-die-Zukunft/first#post158833

My interpretation of the Google translate results:

1. They are explicitly not promising that Ascended gear will be the last item tier—they don’t want to make more promises that they can be accused of breaking later (like is happening this time). They note that in GW1, new gear was added over time—not a better-statted tier, but bonus combinations that weren’t available at release, like the +energy on staves.

2. New and existing content will be adjusted for the new tier. Dungeon armor will likely be adjusted, they’re not yet sure how. They see dungeon sets as non-obsolete because of the unique appearances.

3. They will look at how Ascended items affect the crafting skills, but there probably won’t be Ascended-related crafting adjustments this patch, even for Jewelers who are the most affected (what with Ascended rings being among the first Ascended items).

4. Q: What will happen when we’re done with the ascended tier—how will you satisfy the community desire for progression?
A: We’re focusing on progression content—so things like Fractals & Agony which gets harder. So the gear is just to serve the progression content.

5. Q: Ascended items fill the time gap, but why does that mean they have to have better stats?
A: They know there are different ways to fill the time gap, and were expecting different opinions on whether stat rises were the right choice—so they aren’t surprised by all the anger right now. As a side note, they are counting on the slow release of Ascended gear to contribute to the feeling of it being a longer-term goal than exotics.

6. Q:What about the triforge pendant?
A: they’re not planning on buffing it—it may be better than some of the early Ascended amulets. He points out that GW1 had some items that were valuable early on but later became less valuable, and some new items that were better than old items for some builds.

Edit1: Got some german translation help and changed point 2—looks like they are planning on changing dungeon armor, but not sure how.
Edit2: Added a bit more on point 6.
Edit 3: some more translation help. Thanks infmelon!
Edit 4: Another german stepped in to clarify point 3.

Sky.9347:

stof.9341:

chronus.1326:

You get 5 relics per run.

Technically, one run is at the minimum 3 fractals so 3×5=15 relics. At which point you are back in a safe room. Then you can do 3 more fractals at the higher difficulty, then you get a boss.

What is a run in a endless dungeon really?

It is something I do not want to do.

It is something ANet told me they wouldn’t force me to do in order to be “just as powerful” as somebody else.

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

Mike O’Brien

- Except Ascended Gear

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you dont need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but its not required to play the game. We dont need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who dont are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

Colin Johanson

- Unless it’s Ascended Gear

Again I’ll state this:

They said you would be able to get ascension gear in more ways than just dungeons.

Or are you just willfully ignorant of that fact?

Cactus Brawler.7415:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sunrise

Much better. Using correct data is important

I invested in a full set of COF, TA, and Arah gear… I don’t see why people complain. All the current content can be done with exotic and if you like your exotic so much don’t worry about the ascended or get the ascended and fuse it if you like your current look. Quit complaining so much exotic wasn’t even a grind, nor will this be. In the end people will always complain about something, if you’re to that point just stop playing games.

Loosifah.4739:

Again semantics. They said legendary is on terms with exotic. They also said legendary will equal top in slot gear. They never said exotic would always be top in slot. Therefore legendary = whatever top in slot is. Therefore legendary = ascended now.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that you may have misinterpreted?

It’s all irrelevant. They stated clearly we wouldn’t have ascended, and therefore exotics would still be best-in slot, if they didnt make a mistake.

You don’t need to interpret MIke O’Briend or Colin Johanson. Lindsay Murdock said that very clearly: we introduced ascended because we weren’t able to design endgame properly.

I laid all of this stuff out 2 days ago.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Some-things-you-may-have-missed/first#post715275
What you fail to realize is that there are many of us who were looking forward to challenging content on an even playing field. The real hardcore players for whom skill is king. If you want to know what that kind of content looks like go play in The Underworld in GW. Or if you’re really nuts and think you’re hardcore yourself, Domain of Anguish. In those places it was your team’s skill and build that determined success not some gear check, you could have all of the gear you needed within a day of making your character. The people who want to spend large amounts of time grinding for numbers on their gear in order to do content where their success is determined by those numbers are NOT hardcore players. They are quite the opposite.

You cannot measure skill unless the field is equal, period. I get that people who think GW2’s dungeons are hard won’t care about this content being gated, but we don’t and we will care about dealing with this crummy mechanic.

Exotic is soooo easy to get. You have money; therefore you have exotics.

Loosifah.4739:

Sky.9347:

stof.9341:

chronus.1326:

You get 5 relics per run.

Technically, one run is at the minimum 3 fractals so 3×5=15 relics. At which point you are back in a safe room. Then you can do 3 more fractals at the higher difficulty, then you get a boss.

What is a run in a endless dungeon really?

It is something I do not want to do.

It is something ANet told me they wouldn’t force me to do in order to be “just as powerful” as somebody else.

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

Mike O’Brien

- Except Ascended Gear

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you dont need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but its not required to play the game. We dont need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who dont are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

Colin Johanson

- Unless it’s Ascended Gear

Again I’ll state this:

They said you would be able to get ascension gear in more ways than just dungeons.

Or are you just willfully ignorant of that fact?

I honestly don’t care HOW they can be gotten. Aside from the fact that dungeon crawlers get first shot at it… and then the rest of us get the sloppy seconds…

The fact is they promised, clearly, that this would not happen.

Now, they have introduced Ascended gear BECAUSE the “grind” between Exotic and Legendary was different. I don’t care if they add a million billion new rarities.

Why wasn’t this Ascended gear statistically equal to Exotic gear?

Urxx.6840:

Loosifah.4739:

Again semantics. They said legendary is on terms with exotic. They also said legendary will equal top in slot gear. They never said exotic would always be top in slot. Therefore legendary = whatever top in slot is. Therefore legendary = ascended now.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that you may have misinterpreted?

It’s all irrelevant. They stated clearly we wouldn’t have ascended, and therefore exotics would still be best-in slot, if they didnt make a mistake.

You don’t need to interpret MIke O’Briend or Colin Johanson. Lindsay Murdock said that very clearly: we introduced ascended because we weren’t able to design endgame properly.

Show me some concrete evidence that they stated clearly “We’re not going to add ascendant gear”

Loosifah.4739:

Exotic is soooo easy to get. You have money; therefore you have exotics.

Yet they weren’t able to predict people would hit the legendary wall very soon. It’s their words not mine.

Loosifah.4739:

Urxx.6840:

Loosifah.4739:

Again semantics. They said legendary is on terms with exotic. They also said legendary will equal top in slot gear. They never said exotic would always be top in slot. Therefore legendary = whatever top in slot is. Therefore legendary = ascended now.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that you may have misinterpreted?

It’s all irrelevant. They stated clearly we wouldn’t have ascended, and therefore exotics would still be best-in slot, if they didnt make a mistake.

You don’t need to interpret MIke O’Briend or Colin Johanson. Lindsay Murdock said that very clearly: we introduced ascended because we weren’t able to design endgame properly.

Show me some concrete evidence that they stated clearly “We’re not going to add ascendant gear”

What are you talking about? Reread my post.

Honestly, does it really matter whether or not ArenaNet said this, or that, or whether they were specific enough with the minutia of what they said, or whether or not it contradicts a video that they put out like two years ago?
Shouldn’t the point be whether or not Ascended gear represents a positive or negative change to the game?

I just really don’t think it would make a difference if when you played the Manifesto video backwards at half-speed you could suddenly hear a demon saying “Kill your parents, drugs are good, in November of 2012 we’re going to add Ascended gear which is an 8% improvement over Exotic…”

There’s still no coherent argument, based on the merits of Ascended equipment and not what anybody said a year ago, that justifies their addition to the game, and there are plenty of arguments in favour of nipping the power creep in the bud.

If Ascended equipment was a good addition to the game, and ArenaNet had specifically said pre-release that there would never be Ascended gear, it would still be a good addition to the game, and should be added anyway.
If Ascended equipment is a bad addition to the game, and ArenaNet didn’t specifically say that they would never add it, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a bad addition to the game, and should be pulled from the patch before it goes live.

Urxx.6840:

Loosifah.4739:

Again semantics. They said legendary is on terms with exotic. They also said legendary will equal top in slot gear. They never said exotic would always be top in slot. Therefore legendary = whatever top in slot is. Therefore legendary = ascended now.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that you may have misinterpreted?

It’s all irrelevant. They stated clearly we wouldn’t have ascended, and therefore exotics would still be best-in slot, if they didnt make a mistake.

You don’t need to interpret MIke O’Briend or Colin Johanson. Lindsay Murdock said that very clearly: we introduced ascended because we weren’t able to design endgame properly.

They designed endgame just fine. The problem they’re seeing only exists in the perceptions of a vocal minority who spammed the forums with their “I Quit” threads because there was no gear stat progression. So instead of ArenaNet saying, “Sorry our game isn’t for you,” they’re caving in and making this game more like every other MMO.

I read your post, and comprehended it.

But your post does not quote them saying “There will never be a higher tier than exotic” or “Exotic will forever be best in slot” or “We will never for any reason add ascension gear”.

All it says is they introduced it because of a reason, that doesn’t say it wasn’t already on the drawing board; but just being postponed.

Loosifah.4739:

Urxx.6840:

Loosifah.4739:

Again semantics. They said legendary is on terms with exotic. They also said legendary will equal top in slot gear. They never said exotic would always be top in slot. Therefore legendary = whatever top in slot is. Therefore legendary = ascended now.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that you may have misinterpreted?

It’s all irrelevant. They stated clearly we wouldn’t have ascended, and therefore exotics would still be best-in slot, if they didnt make a mistake.

You don’t need to interpret MIke O’Briend or Colin Johanson. Lindsay Murdock said that very clearly: we introduced ascended because we weren’t able to design endgame properly.

Show me some concrete evidence that they stated clearly “We’re not going to add ascendant gear”

Show me concrete evidence that this isn’t supposed to be a train simulator.

Tyr.1965:

Urxx.6840:

Loosifah.4739:

Again semantics. They said legendary is on terms with exotic. They also said legendary will equal top in slot gear. They never said exotic would always be top in slot. Therefore legendary = whatever top in slot is. Therefore legendary = ascended now.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that you may have misinterpreted?

It’s all irrelevant. They stated clearly we wouldn’t have ascended, and therefore exotics would still be best-in slot, if they didnt make a mistake.

You don’t need to interpret MIke O’Briend or Colin Johanson. Lindsay Murdock said that very clearly: we introduced ascended because we weren’t able to design endgame properly.

They designed endgame just fine. The problem they’re seeing only exists in the perceptions of a vocal minority who spammed the forums with their “I Quit” threads because there was no gear stat progression. So instead of ArenaNet saying, “Sorry our game isn’t for you,” they’re caving in and making this game more like every other MMO.

So to combat that people are saying “I quit” because they introduced one new tier of equipment? Seems logical.

The only way this would be acceptable to me (whether ANet cares abut my opinion is another thing) is if the Ascended items mattered only for those Agony using enemies. AND that I didn’t need to farm said Dungeon for anything exclusive. That way I don’t feel I am forced to get the ascended stuff with its corresponding dungeon, and I still have valid, equally strong Exotic items.

Either that, or the option to infuse my Exotic armor, so it could have Ascended stats. If Legendaries will be upgraded to Ascended, there’s no reason Exotics, which are no worse than legendaries should be any worse. Although of course this kind of thinking defies the purpose of making ascended weapons in the first place.

I hardly ever express myself negatively about stuff in this game, but so far this one is the only thing I’ve really, really disliked. It’s a sort of sellout, IMHO, and I mean no offense to all of you who think it’s a wonderful addition to the game.

In short:

A) Ascended weapons: make them strong only against those creatures using agony, or…

B)Make Exotic weapons infusable, to meet Ascended status, via a not too grindy in-game mechanic.

I do believe that Exotics are not that easy to get, at least not if you want specific stats, and ALL the specific accessories you want. You need at least 25 ecto for a full set of Exotic accessories, or buying them off the market at a very high price. Same with armor, though it is easier to acquire it via Dungeon tokens/Karma. Many people who have full Exotic armor don’t have full Exotic accessories. That doesn’t mean that they are “fully geared”. Those accessories make a big, noticeable difference in game. So even though for some, a fully geared Exotic character is “easy to achieve”, for MOST of us, it’s not a matter of five minutes after hitting level 80.

In short, the Exotic tier is (was) perfect for both casual and hardcore players alike, and IMHO, no ascended items were ever necessary, or even a new “fun” mechanic to add. Feel free to disagree, developers and fellow forum members alike-I mean nor WANT any argument, and have said my final word about it.

Crater.1625:

Honestly, does it really matter whether or not ArenaNet said this, or that, or whether they were specific enough with the minutia of what they said, or whether or not it contradicts a video that they put out like two years ago?
Shouldn’t the point be whether or not Ascended gear represents a positive or negative change to the game?

I just really don’t think it would make a difference if when you played the Manifesto video backwards at half-speed you could suddenly hear a demon saying “Kill your parents, drugs are good, in November of 2012 we’re going to add Ascended gear which is an 8% improvement over Exotic…”

There’s still no coherent argument, based on the merits of Ascended equipment and not what anybody said a year ago, that justifies their addition to the game, and there are plenty of arguments in favour of nipping the power creep in the bud.

If Ascended equipment was a good addition to the game, and ArenaNet had specifically said pre-release that there would never be Ascended gear, it would still be a good addition to the game, and should be added anyway.
If Ascended equipment is a bad addition to the game, and ArenaNet didn’t specifically say that they would never add it, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a bad addition to the game, and should be pulled from the patch before it goes live.

I dissent, If I take a loss because I acted based on what you said and then you do something else, that damages me no matter if the thing you did is good or bad.

On top of that ascended is also bad. But them not keeping their words is a problem in itself.