Guild Wars 2

Nerth.3940:

Lt Latency.7415:

xtorma.1283:

Lt Latency.7415:

What else would you do that give you that kind of value for your money??

I went to see the new bond movie and the add was nothing like what I thought the movie was going to be.

That cost me alot more then 10 cents an hour.

But when you went to see the bond movie , it didnt turn into twilight half way through.

Actually it sort of did.

I thought i was going to see a movie about bond a super spy and gadgets like normal but he was a worthless bum who couldn’t pass his training and had no spy tools.

But bond is not the actual point.

What is it then? I bought a product because it was advertised in a certain way. I don’t play games with gear grind (WoW, Rift, SW:TOR, …). I don’t have the time anymore. So, they advertised that this is going to be different, whole game is end-game, play how you want to play, we respect our players, yadda, yadda, yadda. What happens? they do a 180 on us after we bought the game and spent a considerable amount in the gem store.

Oh, just to be clear, I can’t get a refund because I was one of those fools who pre-purchased on the same day it was available to show my support for their so called “manifesto”. I even planned to buy at least 20€ worth of gems every month, just like a subscription to show my support for their efforts.

Makes sense?

You can get a refund, contact your card issuer and tell them to do a chargeback. Simple

Enikuo.9205:

Lt Latency.7415:

Nerth.3940:

Lt Latency.7415:

xtorma.1283:

Lt Latency.7415:

What else would you do that give you that kind of value for your money??

I went to see the new bond movie and the add was nothing like what I thought the movie was going to be.

That cost me alot more then 10 cents an hour.

But when you went to see the bond movie , it didnt turn into twilight half way through.

Actually it sort of did.

I thought i was going to see a movie about bond a super spy and gadgets like normal but he was a worthless bum who couldn’t pass his training and had no spy tools.

But bond is not the actual point.

What is it then? I bought a product because it was advertised in a certain way. I don’t play games with gear grind (WoW, Rift, SW:TOR, …). I don’t have the time anymore. So, they advertised that this is going to be different, whole game is end-game, play how you want to play, we respect our players, yadda, yadda, yadda. What happens? they do a 180 on us after we bought the game and spent a considerable amount in the gem store.

Oh, just to be clear, I can’t get a refund because I was one of those fools who pre-purchased on the same day it was available to show my support for their so called “manifesto”. I even planned to buy at least 20€ worth of gems every month, just like a subscription to show my support for their efforts.

Makes sense?

Yeah, You paid and played for one style and if they change to something you don’t like you stop.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Paying for 600 hours+ and saying your didn’t get your monies worth not so much. I don’t even think I have played a game for 600 hours, Well maybe counter strike but that is because it’s like 10+ years old.

600 hours that ANet wasted of that player’s time. They can say they didn’t get their money’s worth, because it’s their money. It’s their time. Not yours. That’s the point.

Where they not playing for fun that 600 hours? What were they doing if it was a wasted 600 hours

They advertised the game in one way then made an180 turn, that’s called “bait and switch”, there’s absolutely no reason at all for me to not exercise my right to a refund just because I got to play for a couple of months. MMOs are something I usually play for years not months.

There are people who want a refund and have justified reasons for it.

Then there are people who want a refund even if they already enjoy 600 hours of gameplay.
Theyre doing this partly in spite, partly to “communicate” to a company.

Companies need to be communicated to in terms of money. Because that is all they really care for.

So frankly, even if its spite, I have zero problem with people asking for a refund, no matter what reasons they have just or unjust. Because THIS is the only way theyll hear the consumer’s voice. Just look at this thread, among all the outrage where is the reply that isnt PR or doublespeak?

The time played doesn’t matter. ArenaNet has provided no method of effective communication. No discussion with the devs, no polls, no nothing. They didn’t ask about this change. They just went ahead and changed the fundamental design philosophy and said, “if you like it, play…if you don’t like it, quit”. That’s their message to their players.

They don’t care a bit what is said on these forums. They are watching the metrics on their servers. If people play, they are implying they are fine with these changes. If players stop playing, they are voting no. Since that’s how ArenaNet wants to handle things, players have to accept it.

The players are responding using the only method ArenaNet provided. They are sending a message that ArenaNet will hear. They are stopping play, stopping gem purchases, and some are asking for a refund.

With a change this big, asking for your money back may actually be the ONLY message that might be heard.

So, as I said, it’s not a discussion of value or played time. It’s a matter of ArenaNet only providing one method of effective communication, and players wanting to be heard.

Personally, I love the game, and wish I could still play it. I played every day from head start until this past Thursday, and I would have played for years to come. Now, I can’t play anymore. If I do, I will be sending the message that I accept these changes. So, they’ve put me in a position where the only way I can express my disgust effectively is to give up a game I love. It also makes sense to stop now, since playing and watching the gear treadmill and power creep slowly destroy my fun would just be depressing.

Personally, I won’t ask for a refund of my purchase price or the gems I bought to support the game. Instead, I will simply move on. I will never log in again unless these changes are put right, and / or ArenaNet provides a better method of communication. ArenaNet has forced me to vote with my feet, and I vote no.

Lt Latency.7415:

Enikuo.9205:

Lt Latency.7415:

Nerth.3940:

Lt Latency.7415:

xtorma.1283:

Lt Latency.7415:

What else would you do that give you that kind of value for your money??

I went to see the new bond movie and the add was nothing like what I thought the movie was going to be.

That cost me alot more then 10 cents an hour.

But when you went to see the bond movie , it didnt turn into twilight half way through.

Actually it sort of did.

I thought i was going to see a movie about bond a super spy and gadgets like normal but he was a worthless bum who couldn’t pass his training and had no spy tools.

But bond is not the actual point.

What is it then? I bought a product because it was advertised in a certain way. I don’t play games with gear grind (WoW, Rift, SW:TOR, …). I don’t have the time anymore. So, they advertised that this is going to be different, whole game is end-game, play how you want to play, we respect our players, yadda, yadda, yadda. What happens? they do a 180 on us after we bought the game and spent a considerable amount in the gem store.

Oh, just to be clear, I can’t get a refund because I was one of those fools who pre-purchased on the same day it was available to show my support for their so called “manifesto”. I even planned to buy at least 20€ worth of gems every month, just like a subscription to show my support for their efforts.

Makes sense?

Yeah, You paid and played for one style and if they change to something you don’t like you stop.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Paying for 600 hours+ and saying your didn’t get your monies worth not so much. I don’t even think I have played a game for 600 hours, Well maybe counter strike but that is because it’s like 10+ years old.

600 hours that ANet wasted of that player’s time. They can say they didn’t get their money’s worth, because it’s their money. It’s their time. Not yours. That’s the point.

Where they not playing for fun that 600 hours? What were they doing if it was a wasted 600 hours

Some people have more money than time. They don’t value the experience in the same way that you do. Those 600 hours are more valuable to them than the 10 cents. And, those people are often attracted to horizontal progression over vertical progression, which is the main point of contention in this patch. But, they can’t get their time back, just money.

I’m not personally seeking a refund. I’m still hoping that ANet changes their mind. But, I can’t fault others for doing so.

Fozzik.1742:

The time played doesn’t matter. ArenaNet has provided no method of effective communication. No discussion with the devs, no polls, no nothing. They didn’t ask about this change. They just went ahead and changed the fundamental design philosophy and said, “if you like it, play…if you don’t like it, quit”. That’s their message to their players.

They don’t care a bit what is said on these forums. They are watching the metrics on their servers. If people play, they are implying they are fine with these changes. If players stop playing, they are voting no. Since that’s how ArenaNet wants to handle things, players have to accept it.

The players are responding using the only method ArenaNet provided. They are sending a message that ArenaNet will hear. They are stopping play, stopping gem purchases, and some are asking for a refund.

With a change this big, asking for your money back may actually be the ONLY message that might be heard.

So, as I said, it’s not a discussion of value or played time. It’s a matter of ArenaNet only providing one method of effective communication, and players wanting to be heard.

Personally, I love the game, and wish I could still play it. I played every day from head start until this past Thursday. Now, I can’t play anymore. If I do, I will be sending the message that I accept these changes. So, they’ve put me in a position where the only way I can express my disgust effectively is to give up a game I love. It also makes sense to stop now, since playing and watching the gear treadmill and power creep slowly destroy my fun would just be depressing.

Personally, I won’t ask for a refund of my purchase price or the gems I bought to support the game. Instead, I will simply move on. I will never log in again unless these changes are put right, and / or ArenaNet provides a better method of communication. ArenaNet has forced me to vote with my feet, and I vote no.

Actually I think they only way is to keep playing and just not chase the carrot. Which is hard because it’s not fun to do world PvP in crappy gear.

But if the only people left are all on the treadmill, This is no reason to not turn it up even faster

Enikuo.9205:

Lt Latency.7415:

Enikuo.9205:

Lt Latency.7415:

Nerth.3940:

Lt Latency.7415:

xtorma.1283:

Lt Latency.7415:

What else would you do that give you that kind of value for your money??

I went to see the new bond movie and the add was nothing like what I thought the movie was going to be.

That cost me alot more then 10 cents an hour.

But when you went to see the bond movie , it didnt turn into twilight half way through.

Actually it sort of did.

I thought i was going to see a movie about bond a super spy and gadgets like normal but he was a worthless bum who couldn’t pass his training and had no spy tools.

But bond is not the actual point.

What is it then? I bought a product because it was advertised in a certain way. I don’t play games with gear grind (WoW, Rift, SW:TOR, …). I don’t have the time anymore. So, they advertised that this is going to be different, whole game is end-game, play how you want to play, we respect our players, yadda, yadda, yadda. What happens? they do a 180 on us after we bought the game and spent a considerable amount in the gem store.

Oh, just to be clear, I can’t get a refund because I was one of those fools who pre-purchased on the same day it was available to show my support for their so called “manifesto”. I even planned to buy at least 20€ worth of gems every month, just like a subscription to show my support for their efforts.

Makes sense?

Yeah, You paid and played for one style and if they change to something you don’t like you stop.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Paying for 600 hours+ and saying your didn’t get your monies worth not so much. I don’t even think I have played a game for 600 hours, Well maybe counter strike but that is because it’s like 10+ years old.

600 hours that ANet wasted of that player’s time. They can say they didn’t get their money’s worth, because it’s their money. It’s their time. Not yours. That’s the point.

Where they not playing for fun that 600 hours? What were they doing if it was a wasted 600 hours

Some people have more money than time. They don’t value the experience in the same way that you do. Those 600 hours are more valuable to them than the 10 cents. And, those people are often attracted to horizontal progression over vertical progression, which is the main point of contention in this patch. But, they can’t get their time back, just money.

I’m not personally seeking a refund. I’m still hoping that ANet changes their mind. But, I can’t fault others for doing so.

And again, If there was no carrot to chace before the must have been playing for fun.
So how are those 600 hours wasted??

It’s not like they grinded for 600 hours to buy a set of gear then found out that set of gear was no longer good. That would be a waste of 600 hours.

Right now, You play things for fun because there is nothing to grind

I don’t understand these arguments against people seeking refunds saying they got their moneys worth. We know that some people have successfully received refunds for the game, so if you don’t plan on playing the game anymore because you don’t approve of the direction what is wrong with trying to get your money back?

Just like if a bank extends a loan to a company and the company goes bankrupt. The bank could say, well I knew there was a chance of default when I made the loan so I will accept the entire loss. But I can guarantee the smart banks will send over every lawyer they have to recover as much as possible before the company’s other creditors do.

This guy is complaining about the ethics of people asking refunds from a company that is clearly unethical due to blatant lies. I’m very confused.

Waffler.1257:

I don’t understand these arguments against people seeking refunds saying they got their moneys worth. We know that some people have successfully received refunds for the game, so if you don’t plan on playing the game anymore because you don’t approve of the direction what is wrong with trying to get your money back?

Just like if a bank extends a loan to a company and the company goes bankrupt. The bank could say, well I knew there was a chance of default when I made the loan so I will accept the entire loss. But I can guarantee the smart banks will send over every lawyer they have to recover as much as possible before the company’s other creditors do.

They reason for the change is player retention. People play time is WAY WAY down for this game. If people were still playing like crazy this wouldn’t even be a issue but it’s not the case.

Yes, they did make a change, But that is because people aren’t staying.

When you buy a game that tries new things, the company is taking a risk and so are you when you support them. If you choose not to support companies while they try new things, They WON’T try new things.

Yes sometimes, you will get burned when that new thing doesn’t work, but if we want companies to take risks we have to take them as well.

I’m very sad to see these changes. I prepurchased this game the moment it was available because I held the manifesto’s ideals near and dear to my heart.

When I first saw Guild Wars 2’s website back in 2010, I fell in love. It was pretty much the game I had been waiting for ever since I started playing MMOs six years ago. I read GW2Guru daily, waited (rather impatiently) for the mesmer to be announced, stayed up until 3 AM to get my names saved, and was incredibly happy just to sit there in-game knowing I did not have to do anything if I didn’t want to. Farming dungeons was not required. WvW was not required. I could get my exotics just from playing the game the way I wanted to… and then after that, I could make my character look however I wanted to make her look. It was a wonderful feeling. My twelve-year-old self was at peace. I had found Guild Wars 2.

Now I don’t know what I feel. I was overhyped at one point in time, yes, but when I first played the game back in BWE1, I felt as if I had been playing the game for years. I suppose I just let myself care too much about ArenaNet and Guild Wars 2.

I’ll wait a few months to see how this turns out. If the game is changing for the worse, well… as Trahearne would say, “Moving on.”

(I will always love you though, ANet. Fo’eva. Especially Kristen Perry because I loved reading your blog posts and the sylvari are so perfect!! You did a great job on them.)

I didn’t like ascended gear in the beginning.

I hate it even more right now.

Lt Latency.7415:

Waffler.1257:

I don’t understand these arguments against people seeking refunds saying they got their moneys worth. We know that some people have successfully received refunds for the game, so if you don’t plan on playing the game anymore because you don’t approve of the direction what is wrong with trying to get your money back?

Just like if a bank extends a loan to a company and the company goes bankrupt. The bank could say, well I knew there was a chance of default when I made the loan so I will accept the entire loss. But I can guarantee the smart banks will send over every lawyer they have to recover as much as possible before the company’s other creditors do.

They reason for the change is player retention. People play time is WAY WAY down for this game. If people were still playing like crazy this wouldn’t even be a issue but it’s not the case.

Yes, they did make a change, But that is because people aren’t staying.

When you buy a game that tries new things, the company is taking a risk and so are you when you support them. If you choose not to support companies while they try new things, They WON’T try new things.

Yes sometimes, you will get burned when that new thing doesn’t work, but if we want companies to take risks we have to take them as well.

Logic is a little flawed here, people leaving the game before the ascended gear were a part of one of the following groups:

A. Never really paid attention to what the game was supposed to be about, or the philosophy behind it, just mainly bought into the new thing, then realized later it wasn’t their thing. These people would have left anyway and most aren’t coming back for this treadmill because other games do it better.

B. Avid fans of the genre, and knew what they were buying in to. Bought the game for the no treadmill, no grind manifesto. However, due to bugs, lack of S/T PVP features, or what they perceived as class/build imbalances left the game. This group is HUGE compared to group A. Simply having a Patch Test Server from the start, and listening to the community when they nerf the wrong things, as well as fixing bugs before injecting content/nerfing would have kept many from this group around.

John Lucier.5486:

Lt Latency.7415:

Waffler.1257:

I don’t understand these arguments against people seeking refunds saying they got their moneys worth. We know that some people have successfully received refunds for the game, so if you don’t plan on playing the game anymore because you don’t approve of the direction what is wrong with trying to get your money back?

Just like if a bank extends a loan to a company and the company goes bankrupt. The bank could say, well I knew there was a chance of default when I made the loan so I will accept the entire loss. But I can guarantee the smart banks will send over every lawyer they have to recover as much as possible before the company’s other creditors do.

They reason for the change is player retention. People play time is WAY WAY down for this game. If people were still playing like crazy this wouldn’t even be a issue but it’s not the case.

Yes, they did make a change, But that is because people aren’t staying.

When you buy a game that tries new things, the company is taking a risk and so are you when you support them. If you choose not to support companies while they try new things, They WON’T try new things.

Yes sometimes, you will get burned when that new thing doesn’t work, but if we want companies to take risks we have to take them as well.

Logic is a little flawed here, people leaving the game before the ascended gear were a part of one of the following groups:

A. Never really paid attention to what the game was supposed to be about, or the philosophy behind it, just mainly bought into the new thing, then realized later it wasn’t their thing. These people would have left anyway and most aren’t coming back for this treadmill because other games do it better.

B. Avid fans of the genre, and knew what they were buying in to. Bought the game for the no treadmill, no grind manifesto. However, due to bugs, lack of S/T PVP features, or what they perceived as class/build imbalances left the game. This group is HUGE compared to group A. Simply having a Patch Test Server from the start, and listening to the community when they nerf the wrong things, as well as fixing bugs before injecting content/nerfing would have kept many from this group around.

Most of the people I know, knew what they were doing and stopped because we have done everything. Even if they didn’t know what there were getting they still want people to stay

Avid fans of the genre should know by now nothing is ever balanced, Sometimes you are the best some times you are the worst. That is just the way it goes.
It has been that way since EQ and it will never change because balance is hard when you have 400 skills 10 stats blah blah blah

Lt Latency.7415:

Waffler.1257:

I don’t understand these arguments against people seeking refunds saying they got their moneys worth. We know that some people have successfully received refunds for the game, so if you don’t plan on playing the game anymore because you don’t approve of the direction what is wrong with trying to get your money back?

Just like if a bank extends a loan to a company and the company goes bankrupt. The bank could say, well I knew there was a chance of default when I made the loan so I will accept the entire loss. But I can guarantee the smart banks will send over every lawyer they have to recover as much as possible before the company’s other creditors do.

They reason for the change is player retention. People play time is WAY WAY down for this game. If people were still playing like crazy this wouldn’t even be a issue but it’s not the case.

Yes, they did make a change, But that is because people aren’t staying.

When you buy a game that tries new things, the company is taking a risk and so are you when you support them. If you choose not to support companies while they try new things, They WON’T try new things.

Yes sometimes, you will get burned when that new thing doesn’t work, but if we want companies to take risks we have to take them as well.

Oh really, player population was tanking? Please, show me your data. Or any indication of that at all. Before you respond, let me rule out two points just in case they come up, save us both time:

1) If it seemed there were less players on your server, here’s the news for you: FREE SERVER TRANSFERS. Lower pop servers, and lower rank servers, were less exciting for WvW and harder to complete Orr content and whatnot. Players on those servers transferred to others, leading to low pop servers getting lower and high pop servers getting higher. If it seemed there were less players over time on your server, chances are they came to someone else’s; as a resident of Stormbluff Isle, I can tell you there has been a SEVERE increase in player density and population. Also, the fact that nearly every server is now listed at High or Full capacity seems to disprove your idea that people are leaving.

2) Content locusts (aka the usual treadmill grinders): Yes, upon realizing that max-stat gear was easily obtainable in GW2, and not having uber1337non3wbsall0w3d raids to do to feel superior and get their chance at a gawdhaxx0rz item, these players probably became bored as they inevitably do without an endless treadmill. There may have been some QQ’ing because they couldn’t adapt their playstyle to a revolutionary new method, and some of them may have become bored and stopped playing entirely. Good riddance. They represent only a minute fraction of the entire population, and their inability to enjoy a one-of-a-kind game doesn’t bother me. There are plenty of games that cater to their gaming disability, and only one for those of us not so afflicted.

I was having plenty of fun running dungeons, rocking face in WvW, leveling alts and learning to play new professions, and slowly working towards my Legendary. If the Ascended loot hadn’t come with this new patch, I’d have had even MORE fun. Fractals are FANTASTIC, I love the aesthetics, the skill/logic based mechanics, the increasing difficulty; if rewards had been aesthetic-based rather than boring stat-based, if content hadn’t become gated by Infusion, and if they’d introduced some sort of emote or title that scaled with your Fractal progression, guess what? Everyone would STILL have something to work towards, everyone would STILL have new content, the content locusts wouldn’t be any less pleased than they will be in a day when they’ve gotten all their ubergear, and your primary, loyal playerbase you’ve built up over the years wouldn’t be pissed off and looking to get their money back.

John Lucier.5486:

Logic is a little flawed here, people leaving the game before the ascended gear were a part of one of the following groups:

A. Never really paid attention to what the game was supposed to be about, or the philosophy behind it, just mainly bought into the new thing, then realized later it wasn’t their thing. These people would have left anyway and most aren’t coming back for this treadmill because other games do it better.

B. Avid fans of the genre, and knew what they were buying in to. Bought the game for the no treadmill, no grind manifesto. However, due to bugs, lack of S/T PVP features, or what they perceived as class/build imbalances left the game. This group is HUGE compared to group A. Simply having a Patch Test Server from the start, and listening to the community when they nerf the wrong things, as well as fixing bugs before injecting content/nerfing would have kept many from this group around.

Hit and destroyed the nail.

Even though I feel that my $60 for the original pre-purchase of this game was well spent in simply the amount I’ve played up to this patch, I can see myself requesting a refund, even though I have absolutely zero desire to get my money back. The reason being that it may be the best way to have ANet and, more importantly, NCsoft hear my voice, as this sudden change of course is likely the publisher’s doing.

John Lucier.5486:

B. Avid fans of the genre, and knew what they were buying in to. Bought the game for the no treadmill, no grind manifesto. However, due to bugs, lack of S/T PVP features, or what they perceived as class/build imbalances left the game. This group is HUGE compared to group A. Simply having a Patch Test Server from the start, and listening to the community when they nerf the wrong things, as well as fixing bugs before injecting content/nerfing would have kept many from this group around.

Personally, I did feel quite frustrated with various lingering bugs in the game, and not only did ANet fail to fix them, they introduced other things that made workarounds at the time harder and/or impossible. Case in point: there is a heart quest in Timberland Falls (I think?) that had a blocking DE that would despawn ALL of the mobs that would count toward the completion of the heart, and since I was only able to find two things to do (collect artifact that spawned once every 5 minute or so, only to give about 5% or less progress each and killing the mobs that weren’t there), it became quite a chore to complete that heart quest. This could’ve been mitigated by changing server, but ANet introduced the server transfer limit without the ability to guest. Of course, I understand that ANet did this to prevent WvW abuse; but instead of making a more suitable fix for the problem (such as disabling WvW for x days after transfer), they simply did the quick and dirty way of having a cooldown on transfer, which, compounded by bugs and the singleton nature of the maps (when they’re not full enough for overflow), made things worse. So I do believe (or at least, I want to believe) that ANet incorrectly assumed the reason for people leaving, as you have pointed out.

Lt Latency.7415:

John Lucier.5486:

Lt Latency.7415:

Waffler.1257:

I don’t understand these arguments against people seeking refunds saying they got their moneys worth. We know that some people have successfully received refunds for the game, so if you don’t plan on playing the game anymore because you don’t approve of the direction what is wrong with trying to get your money back?

Just like if a bank extends a loan to a company and the company goes bankrupt. The bank could say, well I knew there was a chance of default when I made the loan so I will accept the entire loss. But I can guarantee the smart banks will send over every lawyer they have to recover as much as possible before the company’s other creditors do.

They reason for the change is player retention. People play time is WAY WAY down for this game. If people were still playing like crazy this wouldn’t even be a issue but it’s not the case.

Yes, they did make a change, But that is because people aren’t staying.

When you buy a game that tries new things, the company is taking a risk and so are you when you support them. If you choose not to support companies while they try new things, They WON’T try new things.

Yes sometimes, you will get burned when that new thing doesn’t work, but if we want companies to take risks we have to take them as well.

Logic is a little flawed here, people leaving the game before the ascended gear were a part of one of the following groups:

A. Never really paid attention to what the game was supposed to be about, or the philosophy behind it, just mainly bought into the new thing, then realized later it wasn’t their thing. These people would have left anyway and most aren’t coming back for this treadmill because other games do it better.

B. Avid fans of the genre, and knew what they were buying in to. Bought the game for the no treadmill, no grind manifesto. However, due to bugs, lack of S/T PVP features, or what they perceived as class/build imbalances left the game. This group is HUGE compared to group A. Simply having a Patch Test Server from the start, and listening to the community when they nerf the wrong things, as well as fixing bugs before injecting content/nerfing would have kept many from this group around.

Most of the people I know, knew what they were doing and stopped because we have done everything. Even if they didn’t know what there were getting they still want people to stay

Avid fans of the genre should know by now nothing is ever balanced, Sometimes you are the best some times you are the worst. That is just the way it goes.
It has been that way since EQ and it will never change because balance is hard when you have 400 skills 10 stats blah blah blah

And… you and “Most of the people you know” Fall into group A.
Your telling me you (and most of the people you know) had 1 of every class all with 100% map completion, all achievements, lvl 80, full exotic sets for every spec as well as all skins, and had every legendary possible? Because that is “doing everything and having nothing left”

Us Avid fans know nothing is balanced, but when they do things like nerf Pistol Whip instead of quickness or not fix bugs on necro/engineer, or destroy a lot of worthless builds on ranger even more, never touch culling, and then have the nerve to add content like Halloween events but not features that were supposed to be included at launch for S/T PVP players, you best be kitten sure we have a LOT to be extremely upset over

Lt Latency.7415:

They reason for the change is player retention. People play time is WAY WAY down for this game. If people were still playing like crazy this wouldn’t even be a issue but it’s not the case.

Player retention, in the sense of people logging on to play five nights a week, is not inherently important for Guild Wars 2’s business model. Because there’s no subscription, player retention only affects the game’s business in two very indirect ways:

1) It offers value to the game to have populated zones. When you perceive a game has having little player activity, you’re less likely to keep playing yourself, and vice versa. The more people who log on regularly, the better the game comes across.
2) Players (and not all players, but enough players) need to be willing to utilize the gem store.

In both cases, actual player retention is only one of many factors that contributes to those things:
- Player activity is perceived to be low, because for some reason, ArenaNet decided that the experience curve to level up should plateau at around an hour or less per level… And then shipped a game with one — let’s pause and let that sink in for a second: ONE — overworld zone that is actually at level 80 (and not 70-80 or 75-80 or anything like that). Downscaling was supposed to be the magic bullet that let them do this, but the balance on it is totally out of whack, and it’s just not worth it to play below your level.
- The Gem store has some pretty pathetic offerings. Three combat-usable armour skins, one of which looks like it’s only half-finished. Mini-pets, which can’t actually be acquired anywhere outside of the Gem Store, so people aren’t given a starter collection that they might want to actually round out. Black Lion Chests are mediocre, especially for what they cost, and people are still burned over the absurd chances of getting skins from them during the Halloween event. Boosters are priced just high enough that you don’t really feel like using them for normal player, and the effects are just low enough that it never really feels worthwhile to do so. The only reason to buy Gems at this point is to exchange them for Gold so that you can buy actual useful things.

The really ironic part? Neither of these problems is actually helped by this patch and its Ascended gear. People are even more funneled into a smaller number of areas – dungeon runners are now only incentivized to do FotM because it has the best stuff, and the people who liked playing on the overworld also get funneled into FotM because it gives more than Orr ever did, and is the only way to get the new items.
There’s been no cool, fun, or useful additions or changes to the gem shop, and there are zero Ascended items (even the main materials for Mystic Forging Ascended gear) that are even tradeable, so there isn’t even a reason to buy Gems to exchange for Gold to buy the new items!

Everything about this patch is poorly conceived, and does nothing to fix what might be ailing Guild Wars 2. It’ll get people playing again, technically, but there’s nothing in it that will actually solve any of the underlying problems leading to Guild Wars 2’s financial troubles (if indeed there actually are any).

I see a lot of uninformed people saying Anet was probably doing this because of the population drop….population drop, that explains why from someone who played since lauch saw nothing but a dramatic increase in population since then.

Also the server population is determined from who is actually logged in playing and after the patch instead of more than 2/3rds of the servers that were full status have dropped to high which tells me a lot of people quit playing. Also this is during prime time.

so now we have a new tier ascended gear which i was sort of ok with and they even added another tier in with the ascended gear called infused ascended gear… how is this not a gear treadmill?

Zenith.1234:

I see a lot of uninformed people saying Anet was probably doing this because of the population drop….population drop, that explains why from someone who played since lauch saw nothing but a dramatic increase in population since then.

Also the server population is determined from who is actually logged in playing and after the patch instead of more than 2/3rds of the servers that were full status have dropped to high which tells me a lot of people quit playing. Also this is during prime time.

Just watch trends.

On sites like xfire, GW2 had like 60% of market play time. At worst it was around 17% with the new patch it’s around 23%.

So in about 2 months they went from 60% to 17%. That must have worried them

These are not hard numbers, But shows what a sample group is doing.

Both WoW and GW2 are down because SW:ToR has gone up about from 3% to 10% after going free to play a few days ago

Lt Latency.7415:

Zenith.1234:

I see a lot of uninformed people saying Anet was probably doing this because of the population drop….population drop, that explains why from someone who played since lauch saw nothing but a dramatic increase in population since then.

Also the server population is determined from who is actually logged in playing and after the patch instead of more than 2/3rds of the servers that were full status have dropped to high which tells me a lot of people quit playing. Also this is during prime time.

On sites like xfire, GW2 had like 60% of market play time. At worst it was around 17% with the new patch it’s around 23%.

invi…cof…tational…

Its ok if you want analise numbers… but consider all the variables before!

Phyllo.3174:

so now we have a new tier ascended gear which i was sort of ok with and they even added another tier in with the ascended gear called infused ascended gear… how is this not a gear treadmill?

They space out the release of Ascended gear just so the treadmill lasts longer. You don’t need to release a complete set in order to have a gear treadmill. You don’t even need it to be armor. Look at the infusions, they are a treadmill in and of themselves. The ascended gear is the platform that infusions will use to keep the treadmill going. Its a very economic way, because they don’t even need to create new armor skins. Once you’re decked out in fine infusions, Masterworks will be released, and you have to farm 12 of those suckers to get back where you were before. Then rare, exotic and ascended. They officially confirmed that they are planning this.

Whether ANet had someone standing behind them and forcing their hand or not is not relevant. I don’t even know what would be sadder? ANet being forced or doing it on their own whim.

Ganzo.5079:

Lt Latency.7415:

Zenith.1234:

I see a lot of uninformed people saying Anet was probably doing this because of the population drop….population drop, that explains why from someone who played since lauch saw nothing but a dramatic increase in population since then.

Also the server population is determined from who is actually logged in playing and after the patch instead of more than 2/3rds of the servers that were full status have dropped to high which tells me a lot of people quit playing. Also this is during prime time.

On sites like xfire, GW2 had like 60% of market play time. At worst it was around 17% with the new patch it’s around 23%.

invi…cof…tational…

Its ok if you want analise numbers… but consider all the variables before!

It’s just pure play time when compared to other games from the MMO genere.

Yeah there is allot going on there mainly WoW expansions. But it a pretty big drop in total play time for that group of players.

Lt Latency.7415:

Ganzo.5079:

Lt Latency.7415:

Zenith.1234:

I see a lot of uninformed people saying Anet was probably doing this because of the population drop….population drop, that explains why from someone who played since lauch saw nothing but a dramatic increase in population since then.

Also the server population is determined from who is actually logged in playing and after the patch instead of more than 2/3rds of the servers that were full status have dropped to high which tells me a lot of people quit playing. Also this is during prime time.

On sites like xfire, GW2 had like 60% of market play time. At worst it was around 17% with the new patch it’s around 23%.

invi…cof…tational…

Its ok if you want analise numbers… but consider all the variables before!

It’s just pure play time.

Yeah there is allot going on there mainly WoW expansions. But it a pretty big drop in total play time.

So you think that the ascendet move is done by a drop of the players? i dont think so…

If you take this forum as feedback…a lot of player was pissed about:

Lack of content (not gear progression)
Lack of skins (mainly on the cash shop)
Lack of PVP modes (GVG mainly)
Lack of class balance, or strange class nerf
Lack of Pve immersion (worlds bosses are not rewarding, and not a real challenge)
Unbalanced dungeons
Bugs that persist since beta…

and i think im missing something on this list…
But the fact is, that if youy take your time to read to forum, you can see all this things repeated.
Now tell me… how many ppl have asked stats progression on the forum on how many thread?.

Waffler.1257:

They reason for the change is player retention. People play time is WAY WAY down for this game. If people were still playing like crazy this wouldn’t even be a issue but it’s not the case.

Yes, they did make a change, But that is because people aren’t staying.

Please link you proof that concurrent player utilization is “way, way down.”

Oh, there is no proof. Arenanet has not said it. In fact, they have not given a strong reason for this radical change in direction.

The bottomline is that companies watch financial trends. People disgusted by this change should vote with their wallets – stop buying from the Cash Shop, get a refund if you can. The general accounting or financial analysis areas will be tracking both. If they see a huge uptick in either over the next few months it will be proof that this was a bad move.

Also, if you really hate this and what is becoming of the player mentality in this game, stop logging in. Even though it has no direct financial impact, it sends a clear message that you do not like the overhaul of their core design.

These type of signals and more do work. Look at what happened to Bioware. The refund request uptick was so high during the ME3 fiasco, that Amazon published that they would give “no fault” refunds on the game. I have never seen Amazon do that before. Other retailers followed suit. In the end, Bioware semi-changed one of the biggest complaints about the game. However, by then, it was too late. Their brand and reputation were already tarnished.

Ganzo.5079:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ganzo.5079:

Lt Latency.7415:

Zenith.1234:

I see a lot of uninformed people saying Anet was probably doing this because of the population drop….population drop, that explains why from someone who played since lauch saw nothing but a dramatic increase in population since then.

Also the server population is determined from who is actually logged in playing and after the patch instead of more than 2/3rds of the servers that were full status have dropped to high which tells me a lot of people quit playing. Also this is during prime time.

On sites like xfire, GW2 had like 60% of market play time. At worst it was around 17% with the new patch it’s around 23%.

invi…cof…tational…

Its ok if you want analise numbers… but consider all the variables before!

It’s just pure play time.

Yeah there is allot going on there mainly WoW expansions. But it a pretty big drop in total play time.

So you think that the ascendet move is done by a drop of the players? i dont think so…

If you take this forum as feedback…a lot of player was pissed about:

Lack of content (not gear progression)
Lack of skins (mainly on the cash shop)
Lack of PVP modes (GVG mainly)
Lack of class balance, or strange class nerf
Lack of Pve immersion (worlds bosses are not rewarding, and not a real challenge)
Unbalanced dungeons
Bugs that persist since beta…

and i think im missing something on this list…
But the fact is, that if youy take your time to read to forum, you can see all this things repeated.
Now tell me… how many ppl have asked stats progression on the forum on how many thread?.

Because it’s not based on forum QQ, it’s based on what the players are doing in game.

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

All those complaints are good complaints but are not something you can fix in a patch or 2. It will take at least one expansion to start filling in those holes so were looking at a year or 2.

In the mean time the need something and that is the problem

Gear grinding is also the fastest way to keep players busy while they work on other things. They are also the easiest players to keep happy.

dalendria.3762:

These type of signals and more do work. Look at what happened to Bioware. The refund request uptick was so high during the ME3 fiasco, that Amazon published that they would give “no fault” refunds on the game. I have never seen Amazon do that before. Other retailers followed suit. In the end, Bioware semi-changed one of the biggest complaints about the game. However, by then, it was too late. Their brand and reputation were already tarnished.

And look where that got us, Everyone of meaning in Bioware is now gone, Included the 2 people that started the company who quit the gaming industry.

All there games where not perfect but we not better off with bioware dead.

Lt Latency.7415:

Because it’s not based on forum QQ, it’s based on what the players are doing in game.

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

I think im done with you, you have 0 arguments so you only can reply with this.
I prefer to have a smart discussion with someone that can prove something and ignore this.
Oh and… you are a part of the minority too… you are a minority, in the minority

Ganzo.5079:

Lt Latency.7415:

Because it’s not based on forum QQ, it’s based on what the players are doing in game.

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

I think im done with you, you have 0 arguments so you only can reply with this.
I prefer to have a smart discussion with someone that can prove something and ignore this.
Oh and… you are a part of the minority too… you are a minority, in the minority

I know, I am part of a minority.

Your right, if you think most gamers are forum posters we shouldn’t be talking.

You just said, that Arena net didn’t focus on what was mainly posted here. Why do you think that is? Because they just want to piss everyone off There are like wow this is what the majority of our player base is talking about. Let not do that just to make them angry.

They do things off in game metrics and what there player bases is ACTUALLY doing.

I was advertised on, and bought, a different kind of game than this.

I am seriously considering trying to get a refund.

Lt Latency.7415:

They are also the easiest players to keep happy.

Gear grinders are impossible to keep happy. They either haven’t yet completed their shiny new tier eq set, or have completed it, and are screaming they have nothing to do. You propably meant keep engaged and interested (which is not the same thing). No, it’s not that easy, as all the WoW clones failures have already shown. On the other hand, gear grind is one of the easiest ways to make casuals unhappy. That unhapiness can already be seend, and it’s going to grow still, because lot of people are not reading boards and blogs, and are yet unaware of the consequences of late changes. That is going to change soon, though.

It just came to my mind while posting in another thread, so I thought I put it here too:

It is now clear why they were so eager to get rid of bots with a long time solution.

Prices for rare mats go up, at the same time they lower drop rates and introduce new recipes with very high material costs = buy gold with gems to get what you want or grind for months.

At the same time introduce gear vertical progression, meaning you’ve only a time window where it makes sense to get the items = buy gems to get the items in time.

Lt Latency.7415:

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

How do you know this? I would love if people actually were backing up their claims with some kind of evidence. Not even hard evidence. Anything would suffice, just as long it’s not completely made up.
We don’t know if forum people are a minority or a majority.
So please stop quoting this as a hard fact.

Astralporing.1957:

Lt Latency.7415:

They are also the easiest players to keep happy.

Gear grinders are impossible to keep happy. They either haven’t yet completed their shiny new tier eq set, or have completed it, and are screaming they have nothing to do. You propably meant keep engaged and interested (which is not the same thing). No, it’s not that easy, as all the WoW clones failures have already shown. On the other hand, gear grind is one of the easiest ways to make casuals unhappy. That unhapiness can already be seend, and it’s going to grow still, because lot of people are not reading boards and blogs, and are yet unaware of the consequences of late changes. That is going to change soon, though.

Correct, By happy, I mean busy playing something doing something. I don’t think they have really set a bar yet that casuals can’t do.

My friend only plays 2 hours at a time every few days and even he said, kitten I finished everything really fast

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tome_of_the_Rubicon

http://i.imgur.com/r614N.png

One thing is not like the other. Its kinda funny how the cosmetic side of this update for dungeons was left out. Since ascended rings can’t be shown and there isn’t any difference between the books from what I am told.

Im still waiting to see , then i will form what i really think about it , BUT IF it works the way people are saying it does THEN i think it is a plain STUPID idea.
To have a better stat gear that we can only get from dungeons IS NOT ACCEPTABLE to me Anet , if this really is what is going to happen im going going to simple jump to the next MMO.

I know this has been said many times, but I feel I have to express it too, because the larger this thread gets the better the chances of an official answer.

The ascended gear is simply wrong in my opinion.

1)It breaks the promises of the manifesto.

2)If you add this now, what will you add once all the ascended armor pieces/weapons are added? More item tiers?

3)Agony, a gear checking mechanic has nothing to do in what was mean to be a skill (and not gear) based game. Will you add enrage timers to the bosses next?

4)Supposing I did agree with the ascended gear, how can you call your game a “no grind” game, seeing what it takes to get it.

5)In what way does adding gear tiers and thus dividing the players in power groups reinforce social interaction and gameplay?

On a personal note, I am currently waiting for an official statement on the matter and if it still goes against your manifesto, the ideas I very much liked and that made me interested in GW2, or in absence of such a statement, I will most likely try and get a refund.

Lt Latency.7415:

And look where that got us, Everyone of meaning in Bioware is now gone, Included the 2 people that started the company who quit the gaming industry.

All there games where not perfect but we not better off with bioware dead.

I am also not happy that the founders left. But it was not the customers that pushed them out. The Bioware founders even confirmed this. Something was happening internally at EA that led them to the decision to get out. It was almost 5 years to the day that they sold their company to EA. You know EA, the company voted the Worst of 2012.

The original Bioware may have died a while ago. Customers called them out on their drop in quality starting with DA2, then SWTOR and finally ME3. Bioware tried to hard to change their product approach to meet the EA CEO’s very public strategic support of microtransactions, streamlining to appeal to a wider audience and online services like multiplayer. Bioware’s core customer base did not like that change in direction and voiced their displeasure and withheld their wallets.

Consumers should never financially support companies that do “bait and switches” or produce poor quality products. To do so, only encourages them and others to do more of the same. Hopefully, gaming companies have watched and studied what has happened to Bioware and will not repeat their mistakes. We gaming customers are not mindless, children with shiny toys. We are intelligent, informed consumers who seek quality in our games like other products.

Companies don’t feel or hear unless it’s in their pockets. I say everyone who’s ready to quit GET A REFUND. I’m still trying to reason with them, if not I’ll charge back if it doesn’t work, i’ll appeal to whatever I can.

Lt Latency.7415:

All those complaints are good complaints but are not something you can fix in a patch or 2. It will take at least one expansion to start filling in those holes so were looking at a year or 2.

In the mean time the need something and that is the problem

Gear grinding is also the fastest way to keep players busy while they work on other things. They are also the easiest players to keep happy.

Sure makes people happy, Look at this thread for example.
This is the most lazy and stupid decision i’ve seen arenanet take since 2004.

There’s thousand of thing they could have done to keep people happy and playing without adding this stupid gear progression. Take Fractal dungeon for example. This dungeon by itself without ascended crap seems to be fun enough to keep people busy for a few months.

They also adjusted drop for lower maps and raised reward in dungeons. Those are two things people have been asking that also add some longevity without the need to add a kitten gear treadmill.

They added new skins, but decided to put them in those kitten Nexon RNG boxes. To make sure that there are more angry people than happy.

This update would have been more than enough for 2 or 3 month even without that kitten gear treadmill.

GW2 need to sell expansion to survive, they certainly wont sell one to me with these stupid decisions.

Haishao.6851:

Lt Latency.7415:

All those complaints are good complaints but are not something you can fix in a patch or 2. It will take at least one expansion to start filling in those holes so were looking at a year or 2.

In the mean time the need something and that is the problem

Gear grinding is also the fastest way to keep players busy while they work on other things. They are also the easiest players to keep happy.

Sure makes people happy, Look at this thread for example.
This is the most lazy and stupid decision i’ve seen arenanet take since 2004.

There’s thousand of thing they could have done to keep people happy and playing without adding this stupid gear progression. Take Fractal dungeon for example. This dungeon by itself without ascended crap seems to be fun enough to keep people busy for a few months.

They also adjusted drop for lower maps and raised reward in dungeons. Those are two things people have been asking that also add some longevity without the need to add a kitten gear treadmill.

They added new skins, but decided to put them in those kitten Nexon RNG boxes. To make sure that there are more angry people than happy.

GW2 need to sell expansion to survive, they certainly wont sell one to me with these stupid decisions.

I’m not a huge fan of it either, but sometimes i comes down to not enough people thinking like that to make it viable.

If I wanted a gear tread mill I would play WoW. The reason I tried this game was the said it would be less grindy.

I am will to wait and see, Because getting the exotic level gear was SSSSSOOOO easy. I’m not at arms with something a little harder say 10-20 hours, Any more then that would be too much for me though

I don’t like this move towards a gear treadmill that ANet has taken. One of the two major sellpoints and realons as to why I bought the game was that there was no gear treadmill (the other was no subs).

I too find it strange that they have so clearly moved away for w their own stand to this, and which they explicitly made clear in their Manifesto. That they were against it and was moving away from it.

I can only see this as a way to attract WoW players that sees this implementation as an incentive to play GW2, and a move to a bigger market for generating income in sold boxes and for the Gem Shop.

I, however, did not expect ANet to turn their backs on one of their cornerstones for GW2 this fast…

IF things gets worse and it’ll be a continuation with gear scaling and implementation, I’m going to find another game….or even go back to just play Minecraft/Tekkit to get away from that slippery slope.

I wouldn’t be too comfortable with the idea of the “vocal minority.” Review the post histories. You’d be surprised how many posters are either first-time posters or had mostly positive comments about the game until now.

I’m still hoping that they will read our feedback and rethink their stance on ascended gear. I wouldn’t even mind if they kept the rings and the back pieces which are already in the game. Since there are no exotic back pieces, as far as I know, the ascended pieces wouldn’t be much of a game breaking issue. The rings probably wouldn’t make much difference either.

But adding ascended weapons and armor is the absolute wrong way to go. Especially with how depended on the RNG this whole thing is.

Lt Latency.7415:

I’m not a huge fan of it either, but sometimes i comes down to not enough people thinking like that to make it viable.

But GW1 never had gear treadmill to keep people interested and happy and GW1 is the second best selling MMORPG of all time, right behind WoW. And one of the best selling PC game too.

GW2 will never be, because they decided that they should be more like WoW. They’ll go down to the rank of crappy wow clone grind fest. Like every other Nexon games.

Ok im not trying to be the dark horse in this conversation, BUT I do think exotic gear level was TO easy to obtain. I think they should continue to add ascended items but then Stop and ensure that this is the highest gear tier forever (a LONG time). This certainly gives those that want more to do some content and doesnt affect those who dont <— This is because anyone with exotics can easily make it to lvl 10 of the fractals.

krookie.6378:

I’m still hoping that they will read our feedback and rethink their stance on ascended gear. I wouldn’t even mind if they kept the rings and the back pieces which are already in the game. Since there are no exotic back pieces, as far as I know, the ascended pieces wouldn’t be much of a game breaking issue. The rings probably wouldn’t make much difference either.

But adding ascended weapons and armor is the absolute wrong way to go. Especially with how depended on the RNG this whole thing is.

actually the ascended gear does not rely on RNG at all, atleast not to the extent of the legendary precursors