Guild Wars 2

How would a limit work?

-You cant limit amount of gold made per day as there are items that cost 1000+ gold.

-would you limit selling a max of 50 per item a day? there goes the commodity market.

-would you have slots which reset daily so you can only have 10 listings a day? This kills all farming.

They could implement some more information in game like charts, trends to increase people playing the market but there isnt much else.

I don’t think that this would be good for the economy.

As long as the demand is there, the potential for profiteering will increase. The only way to hold down costs would be to not buy the goods. That isn’t going to happen.

All I can say is to put in the work. Go gather the things that the people need and sell them. It’s slow, it’s tedious, but the potential is there to reap good rewards for your efforts. Don’t penalize the people who play the trader well.

I mainly just read this as a vent about farming nerfs. Please don’t drag the tp down with you though :P

Maybe they could limit sell listing. Some other game limit the number of listing you can put on the trading post.

Say for example you can only sell at most 20 item listed on the trading post. But it’ll also become really annoying if you are just a normal player and trying to sell more than 20 item.

The real problem is not that traders make money because so few do extremely well its that the rest of us have a harder time making money and honestly for most of us its quite boring to just play the market. I find it tedious and not in the spirit of the game which is about adventure and what not. They should give more gold which they are starting to do. Hopefully they continue that and take out DR (not going to happen). There should of course be a gold disparity between those who play alot and those who dont but there shouldnt be a gold disparity between those who do dungeons and wvw and pve and those who trade. (although if you get a good organized group together getting gold isnt too bad if you just run dungeons all the time)

Also why do people think its fine to make money on the Tp but think that farming should be nerfed. Im all for dr when it comes to mobs in the world. But in dungeons there shouldnt be any dr or at least dr that resets every hour not every day

The thing with DR is they can always give us “more variety” of thing to do. Maybe the problem is there are so limited amount of activity that can make money.

I actually really like the idea of DR. If they give us many activity we can all make money from, we won’t be worry about DR on 1 activity.

The solution is pretty dang simple, GW2’s economists are just ‘college graduate’ economists rather than business men (and women). IE, their economic knowledge is theoretical, and largely based in the opinion of whoever taught them. But how is it simple?

UR-GEN-CY costs!

Nothing for sale in this game has any risk connected to time! There is no urgency to sell. In real world sales, if you overcharge for something, you are losing more money on it than you will gain when someone buys it. Why? It costs money to sit on that shelf; you have to pay an employee to shelve it, to pull it out of the warehouse, to put it back in the warehouse, to keep the product and the area around it clean and presentable, and most importantly it is taking space that you could be used for something that people would buy right now.

The solution is not to limit gold gain, in fact that is pretty much guaranteed to break the economy, we need:

• An account limit to the amount of TP posts, possibly with additional purchasable space
• A daily charge which scales with item cost
• A removal charge which scales with item cost
• A (small) scaling charge for how long the item has been sitting since spawned

And voila! Suddenly, people actually have to price things intelligently as in real world sales. You won’t see people pricing things for amounts of money no one will even have for months and counting on inflation to catch up.

laokoko.7403:

Maybe they could limit sell listing. Some other game limit the number of listing you can put on the trading post.

Say for example you can only sell at most 20 item listed on the trading post. But it’ll also become really annoying if you are just a normal player and trying to sell more than 20 item.

They do limit sell listing already.

There is nothing wrong with the way that the Tp and the economy work at the moment. I do not see any need for change at all.

champ.7021:

Also why do people think its fine to make money on the Tp but think that farming should be nerfed. Im all for dr when it comes to mobs in the world. But in dungeons there shouldnt be any dr or at least dr that resets every hour not every day

Doubt many people who play the tp have a problem with farmers. Some like to do both.

yeah i know that tp players dont care about farmers I just feel that in total the community has some reason to feel negative about farmers but not about tp players. Theres nothing wrong with either but it seems that farmers get more hate for repeating things.

AntiGw.9367:

laokoko.7403:

Maybe they could limit sell listing. Some other game limit the number of listing you can put on the trading post.

Say for example you can only sell at most 20 item listed on the trading post. But it’ll also become really annoying if you are just a normal player and trying to sell more than 20 item.

They do limit sell listing already.

No they don’t, there is a limit to the amount of things you can post in a certain period of time, not a limit to the total amount you may have listed. I’ve never seen or even heard of anybody hitting a listing cap.

AntiGw.9367:

laokoko.7403:

Maybe they could limit sell listing. Some other game limit the number of listing you can put on the trading post.

Say for example you can only sell at most 20 item listed on the trading post. But it’ll also become really annoying if you are just a normal player and trying to sell more than 20 item.

They do limit sell listing already.

Care to elaborate? I’m not a power trader so I dont’ know. What’s the maximun number of listing you can put on the trading post?

There currently is not limit , apart from the fact the you can only sell in stacks of 250 , but you could sell 4 × 250 stacks .

Conncept.7638:

GW2’s economists are just ‘college graduate’ economists rather than business men (and women). IE, their economic knowledge is theoretical, and largely based in the opinion of whoever taught them.

feel free to post your resume, we’ll compare it to John Smith’s.

something tells me his knowledge of economies both real and theoretical will dwarf anything you’ve done or studied.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Conncept.7638:

GW2’s economists are just ‘college graduate’ economists rather than business men (and women). IE, their economic knowledge is theoretical, and largely based in the opinion of whoever taught them.

feel free to post your resume, we’ll compare it to John Smith’s.

something tells me his knowledge of economies both real and theoretical will dwarf anything you’ve done or studied.

Can he fix it? Nope.

Then he isnt’ qualified regardless of what is on his resume. And I never said I am, but at least I can address the issue, unlike him, and you.

I agree with the OP. Flippers love to manipulate the TP and artifically increase prices in order to get rich easily, but that has a detrimental effect for everyone else. Of course the flippers will opposite it, but IMO ArenaNet should either:

1. Make everything bought from the TP account bound, so flippers can’t buy low and sell high.

2. Remove players’ influence on the prices at the TP, by making everything to have fixed prices. This would be better on the long run and don’t have some issues the previous option do (account bound crafting materials…), but it would be a lot more troublesome for ArenaNet.

They have an economist, but I don’t really think that works. The real world economy has constraints that an in-game economy does not have. Some kids here think the goal of an economy is to allow individuals to make as much profit as possible (often to the detriment of others), but the true goal is to allow the highest possible amount of goods to reach the highest possible amount of people; in a virtual economy, the “highest possible” is incredibly, incredibly high.

Conncept.7638:

Can he fix it? Nope.

Then he isnt’ qualified regardless of what is on his resume. And I never said I am, but at least I can address the issue, unlike him, and you.

you publicly called someone’s professional qualifications into question with nothing to back it up: you sir are a true gentleman.

Conncept.7638:

And voila! Suddenly, people actually have to price things intelligently as in real world sales.

Because power traders make all kinds of money from putting items up for sale at prices where they don’t sell.

Power trading is a cash flow business. The faster your items sell the sooner you can re-invest and repeat the cycle. Power traders also become intimately familiar with the ebb and flow of prices in the markets they work in. If your item is sitting there for days on end you’re already kitten ed off from eating the 5% fee of having to re-list it on top of your money being locked up for those days.

Everything you just described would have very, very little impact on power traders (beyond volume restrictions, which would just make the bulk commodity markets a pain to work with) but would be even more punishing to the casual player that can’t keep up. You may have spun it impressively well, but there’s nothing here.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Conncept.7638:

Can he fix it? Nope.

Then he isnt’ qualified regardless of what is on his resume. And I never said I am, but at least I can address the issue, unlike him, and you.

you publicly called someone’s professional qualifications into question with nothing to back it up: you sir are a true gentleman.

Eleven months, less than a dozen items addressed, general inflation at several thousand percent of what it was in the first three months, and still rising.

Yep, nothing to back it up at all.

Ensign.2189:

Conncept.7638:

And voila! Suddenly, people actually have to price things intelligently as in real world sales.

Because power traders make all kinds of money from putting items up for sale at prices where they don’t sell.

Power trading is a cash flow business. The faster your items sell the sooner you can re-invest and repeat the cycle. Power traders also become intimately familiar with the ebb and flow of prices in the markets they work in. If your item is sitting there for days on end you’re already kitten ed off from eating the 5% fee of having to re-list it on top of your money being locked up for those days.

Everything you just described would have very, very little impact on power traders (beyond volume restrictions, which would just make the bulk commodity markets a pain to work with) but would be even more punishing to the casual player that can’t keep up. You may have spun it impressively well, but there’s nothing here.

Never stated I had anything at all against power traders, or that they were what I was trying to address. The problem is inflation, which everybody blames the power traders for, including the OP, falsely so in my opinion. Trading will happen, people will be more or less active in the market, power traders are not going anywhere. But if GW2’s TP doesn’t act like a real trading market then it will not have the ebbs and flows of a real market, and as it currently is set up it rests continually on the ‘flow’ side, favoring sellers over buyers. If the market allows and encourages power traders to deal damage to the market, legally, they’re going to. It’s the market, not the power traders, they are going to do what brings them the most profit with the least risk and blaming them for doing so is foolish.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

you publicly called someone’s professional qualifications into question with nothing to back it up: you sir are a true gentleman.

Somehow I don’t think being called out by an ignoramus is going to hurt John’s feelings.

Conncept.7638:

general inflation at well over 2000% and still rising.

any kind of proof or data to back this up? any at all?

a simple breakdown of your math will do.

Erasculio.2914:

I agree with the OP. Flippers love to manipulate the TP and artifically increase prices in order to get rich easily, but that has a detrimental effect for everyone else. Of course the flippers will opposite it, but IMO ArenaNet should either:

1. Make everything bought from the TP account bound, so flippers can’t buy low and sell high.

2. Remove players’ influence on the prices at the TP, by making everything to have fixed prices. This would be better on the long run and don’t have some issues the previous option do (account bound crafting materials…), but it would be a lot more troublesome for ArenaNet.

They have an economist, but I don’t really think that works. The real world economy has constraints that an in-game economy does not have. Some kids here think the goal of an economy is to allow individuals to make as much profit as possible (often to the detriment of others), but the true goal is to allow the highest possible amount of goods to reach the highest possible amount of people; in a virtual economy, the “highest possible” is incredibly, incredibly high.

You have already demonstrated on another thread that you do not understand the concept of a free market., nor do you have a even basic understanding of the mechanics of an economy

Lisa.6102:

Erasculio.2914:

I agree with the OP. Flippers love to manipulate the TP and artifically increase prices in order to get rich easily, but that has a detrimental effect for everyone else. Of course the flippers will opposite it, but IMO ArenaNet should either:

1. Make everything bought from the TP account bound, so flippers can’t buy low and sell high.

2. Remove players’ influence on the prices at the TP, by making everything to have fixed prices. This would be better on the long run and don’t have some issues the previous option do (account bound crafting materials…), but it would be a lot more troublesome for ArenaNet.

They have an economist, but I don’t really think that works. The real world economy has constraints that an in-game economy does not have. Some kids here think the goal of an economy is to allow individuals to make as much profit as possible (often to the detriment of others), but the true goal is to allow the highest possible amount of goods to reach the highest possible amount of people; in a virtual economy, the “highest possible” is incredibly, incredibly high.

You have already proven on another thread that you do not understand the concept of a free market.

You have already prove on another thread that flippers don’t want to lose the ability to make easy gold by manipulating prices.

This is why you always buy top tier mats in any mmorpg you play at the beginning of the game’s life and then sell them for massive amounts of money later in the game’s life. I literally bought tier 6 mats at about 3 silver each and I just made a ton of gold.

Erasculio.2914:

Lisa.6102:

Erasculio.2914:

I agree with the OP. Flippers love to manipulate the TP and artifically increase prices in order to get rich easily, but that has a detrimental effect for everyone else. Of course the flippers will opposite it, but IMO ArenaNet should either:

1. Make everything bought from the TP account bound, so flippers can’t buy low and sell high.

2. Remove players’ influence on the prices at the TP, by making everything to have fixed prices. This would be better on the long run and don’t have some issues the previous option do (account bound crafting materials…), but it would be a lot more troublesome for ArenaNet.

They have an economist, but I don’t really think that works. The real world economy has constraints that an in-game economy does not have. Some kids here think the goal of an economy is to allow individuals to make as much profit as possible (often to the detriment of others), but the true goal is to allow the highest possible amount of goods to reach the highest possible amount of people; in a virtual economy, the “highest possible” is incredibly, incredibly high.

You have already proven on another thread that you do not understand the concept of a free market.

You have already prove on another thread that flippers don’t want to lose the ability to make easy gold by manipulating prices.

Regardless of what do or do not want , you still have no basic knowledge of the market.

The problem is that the micro is mixed in with the macro, and the futures commodity market is not elastic enough to make the credit default swaps mitigate a broad enough risk profile.

Did it occur to you that the inflation rate is high to try to combat the massive rate of farmer unemployment?

This is the post where we spew random economic sounding words with no real clue what we’re talking about right?

TLDR: I’d like to short this guy’s ideas and conspiracy theories.

Lisa.6102:

Erasculio.2914:

Lisa.6102:

Erasculio.2914:

I agree with the OP. Flippers love to manipulate the TP and artifically increase prices in order to get rich easily, but that has a detrimental effect for everyone else. Of course the flippers will opposite it, but IMO ArenaNet should either:

1. Make everything bought from the TP account bound, so flippers can’t buy low and sell high.

2. Remove players’ influence on the prices at the TP, by making everything to have fixed prices. This would be better on the long run and don’t have some issues the previous option do (account bound crafting materials…), but it would be a lot more troublesome for ArenaNet.

They have an economist, but I don’t really think that works. The real world economy has constraints that an in-game economy does not have. Some kids here think the goal of an economy is to allow individuals to make as much profit as possible (often to the detriment of others), but the true goal is to allow the highest possible amount of goods to reach the highest possible amount of people; in a virtual economy, the “highest possible” is incredibly, incredibly high.

You have already proven on another thread that you do not understand the concept of a free market.

You have already prove on another thread that flippers don’t want to lose the ability to make easy gold by manipulating prices.

Regardless of what do or do not want , you still have no basic knowledge of the market.

The fact you have no argument to actually support your theory is proof enough of how it’s not about what I want – rather it’s about how the exploiters want to continue to be able to exploit the TP.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Conncept.7638:

general inflation at well over 2000% and still rising.

any kind of proof or data to back this up? any at all?

a simple breakdown of your math will do.

Unfortunately GW2spidy (apparently) does not carry that data anymore because of a server crash, and I can’t find another site with TP records that go back nine months. If you can find one, feel free to share it, or just ask around, because inflation has risen by that much in that time. And frankly, this is something you could see if you’d been here for the whole duration of the game. Prices don’t regularly rise for months without anybody noticing in the real world or a game world. Were you even here nine months ago or do you just not pay attention?

I have a profit limiting scheme, but it’s entirely voluntary – I just need the game to provide the tools…

TO A GOOD HOME

Add a check box when posting items that indicate the item must be sold to “a good home”: when purchased via TP this item becomes account bound. For items that stack it is place in a separate stack that include only similar account bound items.

When buying via TP a check box allows ‘to a good home’ items to be filtered out (actually I expect the default would be to filter them out, and the check to opt in to see them). This way customers are less likely to accidentally buy something they cannot re-sell/flip.

People selling in ‘to a good home’ mode should expect to get less money for their items – after all, the only people who can buy them are people who intend to actually use them. But they also get the knowledge that their goods are not being juggled for profit. For buyers who intend to use the item it creates a parallel market with lower price and a direct from initial seller relationship.

For flippers it moves a percentage of their victims- er, market into a parallel track. Then we find out if the people actually harvesting/getting the initial drop really care about the so called “service” of arbitrage… Do they want to sell fast to arbitrage liquidity, or slower to people who will use what they are buying?

Erasculio.2914:

You have already prove on another thread that flippers don’t want to lose the ability to make easy gold by manipulating prices.

You’ve once again proved that you don’t understand how reselling even works.

Please stop arguing something that you clearly don’t understand in the slightest. Your ignorance makes my head hurt.

Nike.2631:

TO A GOOD HOME

And why would anyone sell their stuff for less money than the regular market offers?

Is your idea based on the expectation that people will do that to be nice to each other? There are several political and economic models that tried that approach, and it didn’t exactly work very well.

In that case you can also limit the number of items you can list per day, instead of limiting the maximum number of items you can list at a time. Make it so crafting material can have a max stack size of 250 to count as 1 listing and make everything else count as seperate listing even if you sell in bulk.

Either way it is annoying and can affect the normal player too. I been there and played another game that limit sell listing and have to buy another copy of the game just to sell things in the trading post.

Or maybe make it so items price can only rise and fall 7% maximum a day. Like the stock market…

I suppose all my suggestion are bad, that’s why no one use it.

AntiGw.9367:

And why would anyone sell their stuff for less money than the regular market offers?

If you don’t understand the disgust some people have for flippers, then naturally this will seem a little strange.

Is your idea based on the expectation that people will do that to be nice to each other? There are several political and economic models that tried that approach, and it didn’t exactly work very well.

Its not the expectation – its merely giving us the OPTION to sell items in a direct to user only fashion. Its purely optional on both the buying and selling side.

If people are nothing but rational economic actors, the check boxes will never get clicked. We both know better of course. Some people WILL choose to sell for less under those terms, and any end user WILL check to see if its available for less that way, and any flipper WILL feel the pressure of transactions going on without their taking a cut.

The thread title is about limiting TP profits. A ‘to a good home’ option will do that by allowing the market to find its own natural medium, minus those suppliers who don’t like being the serfs in the field for their trading overlords .

Why are you trying to fix something that is clearly not broken????

The mind boggles and hurts just a little bit .

oh and John Smith (( Hugs))

John Smith.4610:

Ensign.2189:

Conncept.7638:

And voila! Suddenly, people actually have to price things intelligently as in real world sales.

Because power traders make all kinds of money from putting items up for sale at prices where they don’t sell.

Power trading is a cash flow business. The faster your items sell the sooner you can re-invest and repeat the cycle. Power traders also become intimately familiar with the ebb and flow of prices in the markets they work in. If your item is sitting there for days on end you’re already kitten ed off from eating the 5% fee of having to re-list it on top of your money being locked up for those days.

Everything you just described would have very, very little impact on power traders (beyond volume restrictions, which would just make the bulk commodity markets a pain to work with) but would be even more punishing to the casual player that can’t keep up. You may have spun it impressively well, but there’s nothing here.

Except for the part about my feelings (I just got back from crying in a corner), everything Ensign says is correct.

That’s just cutting in to potential profits though, not risk of potential loss. Loss isn’t even a danger with how the system is set up, standard profit margins for any item are higher than 5%, and you’re never going to relist something enough times for that 5% to possibly net a loss.

But if it were possible, (by what I have suggested or whatever other system needs to be put in place) when times get tough (IE, we actually get a buyer’s market for the first time in 11 months…), sellers would have to err on the side of caution, compete more, and drive prices down. As things are, that isn’t even a possibility. As a buyer the very best of times are merely those short periods where events slow down and prices level off, far too frequently at a new high.

John Smith.4610:

Ensign.2189:

Conncept.7638:

And voila! Suddenly, people actually have to price things intelligently as in real world sales.

Because power traders make all kinds of money from putting items up for sale at prices where they don’t sell.

Power trading is a cash flow business. The faster your items sell the sooner you can re-invest and repeat the cycle. Power traders also become intimately familiar with the ebb and flow of prices in the markets they work in. If your item is sitting there for days on end you’re already kitten ed off from eating the 5% fee of having to re-list it on top of your money being locked up for those days.

Everything you just described would have very, very little impact on power traders (beyond volume restrictions, which would just make the bulk commodity markets a pain to work with) but would be even more punishing to the casual player that can’t keep up. You may have spun it impressively well, but there’s nothing here.

Except for the part about my feelings (I just got back from crying in a corner), everything Ensign says is correct.

So how about something that adds to the topic at hand? No offense, but that was kinda a peanut gallery remark from someone that shouldn’t be in the peanut gallery.

Would limiting profit potential from the tp have any negative effects on the game?
Does leaving tp profit potential unbound have any negative effects on the game?
Is the profit potential of the tp balanced with the rest of the economy? Does it matter?

You guys made John Smith cry. Please learn how to use the market to make it all better

Flipping != Market Manipulation

I’ve been finding that speculation is better than both, then again I’m usually broke.

Edit: I may just be combining this thread and Erasculio’s thread in my head, so excuse any OT-ness.

The reward system is about to be turned on its ear. New, salable materials are going to be introduced before the end of the year. Some people seem to be assuming that the mats that will be dropped by Champions will be existing rare mats, but we don’t even know that for sure. We don’t know ANet’s intent with regard to replacing magic find. It strikes me that this is not the time to change the way the market works, as we don’t know what effect changes to the game are going to have.

Whether now or later, though, proposing to limit profits from the TP sounds to me more like jealousy than good sense.

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

You guys made John Smith cry. Please learn how to use the market to make it all better

Some of us refuse to abuse the market in such a way. Flipping items and basically stealing gold from players who actually need the items should not be far more profitable than anything else in the game. We should be able to make money at a comparable rate without taking advantage of other players. Unfortunately, we can’t. And that is a design failure.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Some of us refuse to abuse the market in such a way. Flipping items and basically stealing gold from players who actually need the items should not be far more profitable than anything else in the game. We should be able to make money at a comparable rate without taking advantage of other players. Unfortunately, we can’t. And that is a design failure.

Please explain how reselling is stealing gold from players.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

You guys made John Smith cry. Please learn how to use the market to make it all better

Some of us refuse to abuse the market in such a way. Flipping items and basically stealing gold from players who actually need the items should not be far more profitable than anything else in the game. We should be able to make money at a comparable rate without taking advantage of other players. Unfortunately, we can’t. And that is a design failure.

Ohhh Please ….. seriously … I bet you played pass the parcel with a prize hidden in each layer. lol

Fermi.2409:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Some of us refuse to abuse the market in such a way. Flipping items and basically stealing gold from players who actually need the items should not be far more profitable than anything else in the game. We should be able to make money at a comparable rate without taking advantage of other players. Unfortunately, we can’t. And that is a design failure.

Please explain how reselling is stealing gold from players.

If you can’t see it then it’s not worth my time to explain it to you.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Fermi.2409:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Some of us refuse to abuse the market in such a way. Flipping items and basically stealing gold from players who actually need the items should not be far more profitable than anything else in the game. We should be able to make money at a comparable rate without taking advantage of other players. Unfortunately, we can’t. And that is a design failure.

Please explain how reselling is stealing gold from players.

If you can’t see it then it’s not worth my time to explain it to you.

Nothing prevents players who want to buy things from putting in buy orders at lower prices. You pay a premium for the convenience of getting things instantly.

There’s no stealing of anything involved in the slightest.

Fermi.2409:

Nothing prevents players who want to buy things from putting in buy orders at lower prices. You pay a premium for the convenience of getting things instantly.

There’s no stealing of anything involved in the slightest.

It’s taking advantage of those that don’t understand the system as well. It is stealing and it’s dishonest. That is my view and you will not be able to convince me otherwise.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Fermi.2409:

Nothing prevents players who want to buy things from putting in buy orders at lower prices. You pay a premium for the convenience of getting things instantly.

There’s no stealing of anything involved in the slightest.

It’s taking advantage of those that don’t understand the system as well. It is stealing and it’s dishonest. That is my view and you will not be able to convince me otherwise.

Are you serious? surely you can’t be

Lisa.6102:

SynfulChaot.3169:

It’s taking advantage of those that don’t understand the system as well. It is stealing and it’s dishonest. That is my view and you will not be able to convince me otherwise.

Are you serious? surely you can’t be

Yes. I am serious. I would say surely you can’t be, but your opinion is obvious.