Guild Wars 2

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

There’s just no way to compare this to anything because it hasn’t been done before.

Probably for the same reason auto manufacturers have not embraced the concept of square wheels.

Except that a lot of people think this will work, even if a lot thing it won’t. I’m one of the people who think it will. I don’t think anyone would think square wheels will work.

No one one has done this before because everyone has thought that the old let’s throw a raid at the end of the game and make people take months to farm it is the right way for MMOs to be.

And since I hate those types of games and won’t play them, at least Anet is trying something different. Because I can guarantee a LOT of people who have no interest in raiding very well might enjoy MMOs otherwise.

I never mentioned raids. Why are you talking about raids?

I guess it’s hard to follow what I’m saying. Every game provides stuff with people to do. They also provide stuff that gathers people together in one place. In traditional MMOs the way you gather people is in the end zones (and many of the older zones are dead…most of your world is wasted). Its’ also about raids, which people do the current ones. Much harder to get people together for the older ones. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t really have raids, per se, but this is their strategy for group people up. If you leave more content behind, there’s less people grouped up.

In the current content, I’ve fallen to my death a whole lot of times, and most of the time there’s someone there to pick me up. But that wouldn’t happen in three or four months, if I came back here.

There’s be another 8-12 chapters of the living story and everyone would be off doing the new stuff and I’d be waiting for people to race with. It’s what happens with old content in MMOs.

This is how Guild Wars 2 is gathering players together. Making it all permanent would sort of defeat the purpose.

Shadow Blade.1324:

Vayne i think your posts would be better received if you stopped stating opinions as facts when your statements essentially boil down to

Vayne.8563:

I can’t prove it, but I’d bet it’s true.

while i take your point this is a terrible example

Vayne.8563:

If you don’t get this, then you don’t get it. That’s fine. But the major reason people end up walking away from games like WoW is because they know they’ll never catch up. It’s a big big big reason why people stop. They just cant’ keep going.

you can always catch up in games like wow, they periodically do gear resets with new tiers and make the previous top tier more accessible. imo the reason people walk away from wow isn’t that they wont catch up its that the constant grinding treadmill to stay relevant isn’t entertaining and they burn out.

a better example would be GW2 where you cannot catch up as those players will always be X amount of time ahead of you (assuming they keep playing) in laurels for acquiring BIS or WvW rank unlocks etc so you will never match them because you are time gated from doing so. you can also never experience the wealth of content that’s been removed from the game

i have a few friends who have recently joined the game interested in content i enjoyed and mentioned in previous months, the answer in every case when they ask where they can do that content is “you cant they took it out of the game if you hurry you might be able to do the current stuff before its gone”

its that sense of urgency that the OP is talking about that will ultimately lead to faster burn out and players leaving, and once gone what is there to come back to? the one current event you need to race to complete before it gone?

ultimately this feedback will be disregarded if it doesn’t fit their existing plan, much like the 200 odd page feedback thread on ascended items was locked and discarded for a smaller more positive looking feedback thread in November.

I have people in my guild away from Guild Wars 2 for six months. They came back. And they’ve ALREADY caught up. They don’t need anything to do dungeons with us. With the exception of the highest level fractals they can do anything in the game. Anything. Arah, WvW, SPvP, anything…including the new content.

In other games that’s NOT the case. That’s the keeping up I’m talking about. People who are gone for six months have one place they’re basically screwed and that’s the PvE Leaderboard. The rest of it….not a problem.

This isn’t a content treadmill because you can just start up again without worrying about missing something….because you can still jump in and play the game with guildies.

Devata.6589:

…

2/2

None of the times in gw2 we had situations where it was impossible to get an item. You just had a time period when you could get them which is different from impossible. Sure you do have a point in that if you could not play in that period its really impossible for you. Thats a bummer sure. But while the event was running compared to those odds in gw2 you basically had a certainty to get one. (the once you could farm for of course so not talking about halloween etc.. where buying them was the only way)

“and while not temporary still the biggest majority of players will never get them.” so now you say many people will get it.. meaning it is not so very unique while before you where saying it was unique because people could not get it anymore and that was good. You are contradicting yourself here. Just saying.

Ehh sorry but no contradition I said will never get them not will get them.

Fair enough but then how do you explain odds that have get a drop in 48 years in games like WoW ? thats most likely well beyond the life time of the game so you cant even argue to keep you subscribed. The only explanation in my opinion its a game design decision to have really really rare stuff that very few people will ever have and the whole thing has no bearing on the business model at all.

It is the same come on. they go hand in hand together. You’re just being negative. If I wanted to use the negative pov I could argue that doing a good game would be bad because you’re saying that if they focus on cash shop the game is likely to suffer. Hence you imply thakittens very difficult if not impossible to have a good cash shop and a good game at the same time. Thus… If they focus on the game first and foremost then the cash shop will suffer, hence they will loose profit which will result in layoffs which in turn will cause a long term spiral of quality not because they aren’t trying but because they dont have the resources. But that would be wrong. ITs most certainly possible to balance the cash shop and the game and thats what everyone tries to do cause ultimately you’d just kill the golden goose if you sacrifice your game for the cash shop.

The games that focus on the cash shop instead of expansions are the ones who dont go for the buy to play model.

Dont forget 3m sales of an expansion means $180m I am not so sure the cash shop can ever really generate that much in the same time period. Certainly not if they loose players because of the quality of the game. At the same time while for gem sales you’re only getting that from people who are still playing with an expansion you’ll hit even people who are not.

regarding the historian in the mists. Yes I understand the issue with dynamic events. Thats why I said if they do this they’d probably need to go the route of the personal story and do it instanced. However thats only required for the story line itself, the dynamic events themselves can remain in the game. What I mean is imagine a storyline where we get the aetherblade pirates join up with pirate in queensdale and launch an attack on Divinity’s reach. The actual assault would be an personal story like instance were we get to fight the main force / the leader whatever. We repel the attack and that is that. At the same time we could have new events such the new pirate alliance can try using the aetherblade tech for added mayhem in queensdale. Things like Augement the broodmother technologically to shoot lazors and lightning. trying to blow up the big kitten ow that they have access to much powerful explosives. Test out new inquest based contraptions on the innocent farmers etc…

You get the idea. Think that might work well

Vayne.8563:

I guess it’s hard to follow what I’m saying.

One cannot for long follow a path which leads nowhere, unless there’s a treadmill involved.

Vayne.8563:

In the current content, I’ve fallen to my death a whole lot of times, and most of the time there’s someone there to pick me up. But that wouldn’t happen in three or four months, if I came back here.

“I think the first thing you should do is identify your play style. Then you find a guild that fits that play style.” ~ Vayne

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

I guess it’s hard to follow what I’m saying.

One cannot for long follow a path which leads nowhere, unless there’s a treadmill involved.

Vayne.8563:

In the current content, I’ve fallen to my death a whole lot of times, and most of the time there’s someone there to pick me up. But that wouldn’t happen in three or four months, if I came back here.

“I think the first thing you should do is identify your play style. Then you find a guild that fits that play style.” ~ Vayne

You can follow a path that leads nowhere without a treadmill. By definition a treadmill goes nowhere. I do this raid. I do this raid again. I do this raid again. I do this raid again. Oh look I do the next raid.

That’s a bit different than wandering around, and looking at the sights. Hiking without a destination isn’t a treadmill.

I’m not required to do all the content or any of it. Some people WILL feel they have to…but I’m not one of them.

The problem is, I often end up wrestling with my inner completionist. I know I don’t enjoy the game as much if I make it a checklist of things to do….but it’s taken me a long time in life to get to that point.

I don’t see the game as a treadmill because the game doesn’t require me to see it that way. Some people see it as a treadmill because of how they approach the game.

It’s all down to perception.

Kaaboose.3897:

Galen Grey.4709:

Tachenon.5270:

Galen Grey.4709:

We all know such content takes time. Even if they didnt use some of the resources to create these events, you’d still expect them to take at least a year… some games take even 2.

It’s been almost a year since launch. What did GW players get a year after launch? Was it scattered remnants of recycled temporary content littering the landscape like the clean-picked bones of an unfulfilled and abandoned manifesto? No. They got a whole new campaign.

/e salute the Anet that was. Well done, ladies and gentlemen. Well done.

What the heck happened between then and now?

Its been 10 months well 10 and a 1/2 now to be fair. And what did Gw players get in that time in terms of new content as far as I know just Sorrow’s Furnace. (might be wrong feel free to correct me if thats the case)

What happened now is in the same amount of time where we got little new content (but a lot of changes, I dont mean to say gw1 developers did nothing, not by any stretch of imagination, I am just talking about new PvE content) we got literally a mountain of stuff to do but instead of being grateful that we no longer have to wait a year but instead are getting biweekly new stuff to do until the big stuff lands some people are angry because it isnt here yet.

Even if it takes them 1 1/2 years now instead of 1 year I am personally very grateful they went into the extra hassle of essentially constantly proving fresh stuff to play.

C’mon man not this again. We’re not upset we’re getting content every 2 weeks (Well maybe some are but that’s not the focus of this post.) We’re upset it is getting taken away again. They’re concerend that if they do come back in 1 1/2 years they’ll have missed the majority of the content that came out in that time span.

I would like to point the context of the reply please. I was replying to some who has been comparing how much gw1 grew compared to gw2 in 1 year. I was just pointing out its too early to say. I dont think anyone can deny there is bigger stuff in development unless that person thinks Anet never tell any truth. I was just point out this 2 week content is sort of a bonus if you will while the big stuff is in development.

Thing is we’re all doing a mountain of assumption here.
Imagine we’re in an alternative universe and imagine if this were gw1 at release. Imagine they did the living story over there. Every 2 weeks we get some temporary content akin to what we’re getting now but then after 1 year and a half we still get all the content of factions.

Now tell me if thats the case would the negativity regarding the temporary content be still justified?

I mean wouldnt such a model be a lot better on the whole even though it would have result in 6 months delay to factions for example?

Shadow Blade.1324:

a better example would be GW2 where you cannot catch up as those players will always be X amount of time ahead of you (assuming they keep playing) in laurels for acquiring BIS or WvW rank unlocks etc so you will never match them because you are time gated from doing so. you can also never experience the wealth of content that’s been removed from the game

Unfortunately, the only real way prevent time-gating is to put in other methods of slowing players down. I’ve typically found those methods to be frustrating as a player(heavy focus on dailies, weekly lockouts for high-end content, etc.). It’s just the nature of games that people who put more time into them get more out of them.

Also, I believe that based on their messaging for the game to this point, ArenaNet is not trying to create better gear, just different gear. They have said all along that they don’t want to create a gear treadmill. Those players that have experienced more of the content will absolutely have access to a wider variety of gear but they should not have exclusive access to a higher level of gear.

Vayne.8563:

There’s be another 8-12 chapters of the living story and everyone would be off doing the new stuff and I’d be waiting for people to race with. It’s what happens with old content in MMOs.

This is a very good point Vayne. Especially for all of the open world content, the temporary approach is ArenaNet’s way of telling us what is trending out in the world. It helps to provide a larger sense of community when so many players congegate to the same areas and enjoy the content together. One of their stated goals from the beginning has been to make content where the players welcome other players being around. This is a great way to ensure that happens.

I don’t think, however, that this applies as much to the dungeons specifically. Since that content is designed for 5 players, there is no need for a larger community here. I would personally always like the access to as many dungeons as possible. Now they have already introduced one new permanent dungeon so this isn’t a “you aren’t working fast enough” post. It’s just that they already developed a handful of new dungeons and just aren’t available.

Now because of the way they are implementing personal story, the open world content tells the story behind the dungeon. Since that is temporary it would be hard to keep in the dungeon without leaving in the story that leads up to it. The dungeon would lose it’s context. So I understand that part….I just love dungeons and would love the opportunity to play more of them.

Kaaboose.3897:

Some trick there. Temporary content doesn’t make it easier to catch up. It makes it IMPOSSIBLE.

Dude try to calm down. We’re just discussing stuff here, its not worth an infraction or a ban, even if we dont agree I dont want to loose your point of view over this.

To answer the question from what I see. Gw2 has always been trying to provide content to every type of player and this is in part why this problem exists. Some players are hardcore, some claim to finish these releases in 3 hrs (pretty sure they skip most of it which is good in a way .. coming to that) while others are casual. they just play for even less then an hour per day and generally not every day. These achievements are designed to provide content for those hardcore players who want lots of stuff to do. But thats also why every release doesnt have you doing everything. When you want you can stop. Not just that but the rewards are cosmetic, if you miss one you will not be happy fair enough but you will not fall behind.

The problem is people who play casually want to finish all the stuff thats meant for hardcore players and they want it quickly in part because they aint got the time. Thats the problem, its always been the problem. Ascended gear is such a grind, I have to pay real money to get my legendary etc… etc…

People really need to learn to play a game like a game. Its okey to log on play whatever is going on, enjoy the content it offers and end up not getting all the achievement necessary to get the shiny. The world will not end. There will always be new shinies, if you miss this you can try for the next etc..

Galen Grey.4709:

Imagine we’re in an alternative universe and imagine if this were gw1 at release. Imagine they did the living story over there. Every 2 weeks we get some temporary content akin to what we’re getting now but then after 1 year and a half we still get all the content of factions.

Now tell me if thats the case would the negativity regarding the temporary content be still justified?

Imagine it is 1886 and the Benz Patent-Motorwagen is equipped with square wheels.

The only thing this company has going for itself is the WvW and sPvP. The PVE content in this game is just horrible to the point of playing AION back in the days. Yeah, you want that item from the dungeon? Well go farm it another 5,000 runs while ArenaNet continues to dump temporary content on you while never seeing that item you wanted from Fractals – you know, the weapon skin you wanted so badly.

This company has a very hard time understanding what an MMO should be. And now they’re launching the tournaments? ArenaNet: how about balancing the games professions out before hyping your game at PAX? You have done nothing significant to show you actually care about this game.

koopatroopa.5360:

Temporary content will only make GW2 refreshing, exciting, and thrive. It can’t hurt the game at all.

If this had a sub, it would be a different story.

Ok, fine that’s how you feel. Could you at least BACKUP your claim? Throwing meat in a cage without an animal inside does no good for anyone.

Have a point? Good, provide why you have a point — instead of posting like an employee of ArenaNet.

Vayne.8563:

Boreale.3129:

I can’t believe people are actually defending temporary content. My friend is away from home right now and will be untill this arch is over, so he’ll miss it which is a shame because its one of the best updates we’ve had.

Now imagine that we get to fight Kralkatorik, or any other elder dragon in the living story. Do you reall think its fair that only the people who are playing at the time get to experience THE MAIN PLOT OF THE GAME?

And yet you come onto the forums to see most people defending temporary content because “having too much content is bad” and “it’s realistic”. Well i’ve got news for you guys, more content IS better, and I don’t play games to simulate real life.

Imagine if all the content we’ve had so far wasn’t temporary. 2 new dungeons, events on southsun that matter, a new area, Crab toss, story instances… The list goes on.

Making people do content that is temporary and not in there own time-frame is work, not fun, contrary to what Vayne said earlier.

I guarantee you content to fight an elder dragon won’t be temporary. I think you’re missing the entire point.

First, this content is like a festival. It’ll be back. There’ll be an opportunity to trade again with these people, just like SAB will be back. They’re making content which can be rotated in and out.

But when the main storyline is involved, that content won’t be temporary. You’re simply inventing something to try to prove a point. The stories in the Living World are intentionally left as not part of the main plot line, they’re sidelines that we can explore between major events in the world.

As such if they go away it’s not such a big deal.

Oh so Flame and Frost will come back for all those who missed it? And Sky Pirates?
There’s nothing wrong with more optional story lines in a game, unless it’s temporary so we’ll never see it again.

I’m making things up as much as you are, you don’t know what the future holds either. You can’t deny that the temporary content is making players leave the game and new players reluctant to buy it. Stop defending it so much just because Anet says it’s great.

You also haven’t given us one good point as to why temporary content is good.

Boreale.3129:

Oh so Flame and Frost will come back for all those who missed it? And Sky Pirates?
There’s nothing wrong with more optional story lines in a game, unless it’s temporary so we’ll never see it again.

You can’t deny that the temporary content is making players leave the game and new players reluctant to buy it. Stop defending it so much just because Anet says it’s great.

100% my opinion.

I think i will quit gaming if I cant do old achivements.
I dont have any problem with waiting a year. That’s okay.
But never see it again and forever incompleted achivements
in the achivement summary is just not acceptable.

Galen Grey.4709:

None of the times in gw2 we had situations where it was impossible to get an item.

After doing Hundreds of Fractal daily I have never gotten a fractal dagger due to the double RNG nature. Currently I have never gotten any of the 3 weapon tickets from temporary content, and its not because I haven’t been trying. RNG is RNG, because of this it is very possible for a situation where it will be impossible for someone to get the lucky roll, and the temporary timeline makes it worse. Couple that with what appears that the RNG is not very random which I have definitely observed in fractal daily chests (constantly getting the same fractal weapons and rings with little variations). Whatever their seed they use for their RNG seems to label some accounts a lucky while other will never get anything good.

showtime.9175:

Boreale.3129:

Oh so Flame and Frost will come back for all those who missed it? And Sky Pirates?
There’s nothing wrong with more optional story lines in a game, unless it’s temporary so we’ll never see it again.

You can’t deny that the temporary content is making players leave the game and new players reluctant to buy it. Stop defending it so much just because Anet says it’s great.

100% my opinion.

I think i will quit gaming if I cant do old achivements.
I dont have any problem with waiting a year. That’s okay.
But never see it again and forever incompleted achivements
in the achivement summary is just not acceptable.

That is absolutely Ridiculous.
When you miss an event in real life, you’re not going to tell the people “Hey, could you please get married again ? I missed it.”

You’re going to tell me “The game is NOT the real life”, and you’ll be right.
But… Anet created the game as a living world. And like any other living world, it’s not going to wait for you if you’re not there.

If you want to quit because you miss 50 achievement points from a past living story, go on and leave, because that means you didn’t/can’t understand how the game works.

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

Devata.6589:

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

Temporary content sounds more like real life. If you miss it, there’s no do over!

I’m all for it. If I miss something, to bad for me!

Yeah indeed. And if you die you may never ever start GW2 again That would make it more real life.. You are all for it?

I do like that in those games some elements are not like in real life.. Like missing out on things and so on.

So what’s your point? I can’t tell whether you agree or disagree…

Which are “those” games? Do you proof read what you write?

I don’t agree, what I am saying is that I don’t believe you agree with it yourself. I mean.. you did never die so far? And if you did,you stopped playing? I have the feeling you have died multiple times and are still playing so you like that it not like real life but that when you die you can still go on.

Well I don’t think there is any game where if you die you can’t play it anymore.. even in DayZ you can start over again. So while I do like it if they make some stuff more real-life you don’t put the bad thinks of real life in a game.

" ANet is breaking new ground, and I pity the players who feel compelled to jump up and down, shaking their first about how the world is not how they feel it should be. Get over it! Play! Enjoy! It’s supposed to be FUN!"

Yeah it’s supposed to be fun any many people seem to agree this new ground is ruining the fin so they come to shaking their first about how the world is not how they feel it should be, like fun.

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

There’s just no way to compare this to anything because it hasn’t been done before.

Probably for the same reason auto manufacturers have not embraced the concept of square wheels.

It’s not for the same reason.

Square wheels don’t serve any purpose. Living Story serves a purpose. Permanent content serves a purpose too. Anet has goals that work best with the LS instead of the traditional content patches.

Temporary content, such as has been provided by the Living Story, serves no purpose that could not be equally or better served by permanent content, which is what could have been and should have been provided with the Living Story.

Temporary content is, for anyone who happened to miss it, vaporware.

That’s your opinion. You are welcome to develop an MMO based on old principles and see if they are really better.

“That’s your opinion.” = “I can’t counter your argument.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “I can’t think of anything relevant to say.”

In my opinion, of course.

“That’s your opinion.” = “Arena.net thinks otherwise.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “You are here to play Arena.net’s game, with Arena.net’s rules. The LS is part of their design plan.”

And he did like the game but when Anet changed the rules he started to dislike the game, he finds that a pity for this game that has so much potential and where he already put a lot of time in.. But he knows if Anet continue like this he and many other people will stop playing so he it here to let Anet know there new rules or new way of thinking is bad.

AntiGw.9367:

“That’s your opinion.” = “Arena.net thinks otherwise.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “You are here to play Arena.net’s game, with Arena.net’s rules. The LS is part of their design plan.”

Know what else is part of their design plan? Official forums, where they specifically seek and welcome player feedback on their game.

Are you suggesting that no one should ever express dissatisfaction with any aspect of the game simply because the way ANet implemented it was “part of their design plan”? Can you honestly say you have never made a post on these forums expressing unhappiness with the way something was implemented? And if you have made such posts, why is it okay for you to do so, but when someone else does the same thing you respond with “because that’s the way ANet wants it”?

Aramean.2354:

Shadow Blade.1324:

a better example would be GW2 where you cannot catch up as those players will always be X amount of time ahead of you (assuming they keep playing) in laurels for acquiring BIS or WvW rank unlocks etc so you will never match them because you are time gated from doing so. you can also never experience the wealth of content that’s been removed from the game

Unfortunately, the only real way prevent time-gating is to put in other methods of slowing players down. I’ve typically found those methods to be frustrating as a player(heavy focus on dailies, weekly lockouts for high-end content, etc.). It’s just the nature of games that people who put more time into them get more out of them.

Also, I believe that based on their messaging for the game to this point, ArenaNet is not trying to create better gear, just different gear. They have said all along that they don’t want to create a gear treadmill. Those players that have experienced more of the content will absolutely have access to a wider variety of gear but they should not have exclusive access to a higher level of gear.

Vayne.8563:

There’s be another 8-12 chapters of the living story and everyone would be off doing the new stuff and I’d be waiting for people to race with. It’s what happens with old content in MMOs.

This is a very good point Vayne. Especially for all of the open world content, the temporary approach is ArenaNet’s way of telling us what is trending out in the world. It helps to provide a larger sense of community when so many players congegate to the same areas and enjoy the content together. One of their stated goals from the beginning has been to make content where the players welcome other players being around. This is a great way to ensure that happens.

I don’t think, however, that this applies as much to the dungeons specifically. Since that content is designed for 5 players, there is no need for a larger community here. I would personally always like the access to as many dungeons as possible. Now they have already introduced one new permanent dungeon so this isn’t a “you aren’t working fast enough” post. It’s just that they already developed a handful of new dungeons and just aren’t available.

Now because of the way they are implementing personal story, the open world content tells the story behind the dungeon. Since that is temporary it would be hard to keep in the dungeon without leaving in the story that leads up to it. The dungeon would lose it’s context. So I understand that part….I just love dungeons and would love the opportunity to play more of them.

That’s funny…because there is already a heavy focus on dailies to get gear and achieves, and there is a limit on high end content you can do with guild missions, quartz, how many dungeons you can run in a day at full reward, how many times you can get meta chests.

So you get all three here.

Seems I’m just going to have to agree to disagree with those that believe Temporary content is a good thing. I have not seen one arguemnt for it that I believe justfies its current focus in GW2.
Immersion?
Sorry, but I don’t think it’s fair Content is being taken from the game just so you can say “Look! Now it’s gone! That makes the world seem so much more alive!” It alienates new and returning players, Reduces the total content of the game and reduces the relevance of having a non Grindy MMO (In WoW old raids aren’t much fun because of how badly players outlevel them, this isn’t a problem in GW2.)
Too much content is scary to players. They need that choice taken away from them so they won’t be pressured into doing it.
I’m a firm beliver that the best part of Video Games is having a choice in how you aproach them. That’s what makes this medium so special, limiting choice is a step backwards, not forwards. Even if we assume the above statement is true, all this is doing to player that feel they want to experiance all the game has to offer is forcing them to play at cetain times or miss content. And if they do miss it they just won’t play. And to those that think them not playing is a good thing you may as well abandon any defence reguarding Anet as a buiness. Speaking of which…
Temporary content is great because it keep the comunity in the same place, instead of spreading it all over the place.
This one I just don’t understand. Why is having the whole population in the one place a good thing? I thought the whole reason dailies and Daily META chests were introduced was to get people out of Orr and spread the playerbase around a little. This was so that new players would not be in ghost zones and get the impression that not many people played the game. Every time I read this argument all I can see is “I’m up to THIS point of the content and I want everybody else to be up to this point as well so I can play it with more people.”
New content always attacts more players then old. The “shiny effect” as was mentioned earilier in the thread. Why can’t you just play the new content when it’s new so you play it when most players are there? You’re already doing that now since it’s temporary anyway.
I think having the playerbase spread around the world is a good thing, especially for new players.
There will be TOO MUCH content in the game in the future if it’s not taken away.
Anoteher one I just can’t get my head around. How is having a lot of content to play a bad thing? I’d call that good value for money. The only reason I ever thought there might be too MUCH content in WoW was because you were forced to grind through it when creating a new character to catch up. WoW negated this a bit by nerfing how much NEEDED to be done as time went by but GW2 doesn’t even need to do this since it’s nearly 100% grind free at endgame. Having more freedom to choose how I progress through the game is a great thing.
Anet is a buisiness that needs to make money. Temporary content creates a sense of urgancy to keep players playing.
I can agree with the merits on this but as I stated in the OP and the Video I belive this will alienate players, new and returning, in the long run. I haven’t seen any argument broguht forth that explain why this won’t be the case.

Kaaboose.3897:

Immersion?
Sorry, but I don’t think it’s fair Content is being taken from the game just so you can say “Look! Now it’s gone! That makes the world seem so much more alive!” It alienates new and returning players, Reduces the total content of the game and reduces the relevance of having a non Grindy MMO (In WoW old raids aren’t much fun because of how badly players outlevel them, this isn’t a problem in GW2.)

But it is immersive. The world really does feel alive. I would actually want to see more games like that, for example if I could pay money and get an RPG that never stops changing that would be great!

Kaaboose.3897:

There will be TOO MUCH content in the game in the future if it’s not taken away.
Anoteher one I just can’t get my head around. How is having a lot of content to play a bad thing? I’d call that good value for money. The only reason I ever thought there might be too MUCH content in WoW was because you were forced to grind through it when creating a new character to catch up. WoW negated this a bit by nerfing how much NEEDED to be done as time went by but GW2 doesn’t even need to do this since it’s nearly 100% grind free at endgame. Having more freedom to choose how I progress through the game is a great thing.

Actually this statement can be true in these ways:
with the addition of content the download of the game for new players becomes so big that it’s really hard to download.
The game starts taking far too much space. Not every single player will have the luxury of having a few hundred GB free.
If it’s not kept tidy it CAN start running really slowly, therefore increasing the requirements.
It CAN alienate players. Look at Everquest. How much expansions does it have by now? 12? Do you think new players could ever work hard enough to run trough ALL of it?
^
though remember that these things only apply when we start talking about insane amount of content. 5 expansions worth of content by the end of an MMO? That’s normal. However here’s the question – with updates every 2 weeks how far would we expand 3 years from now?

Kaaboose.3897:

Anet is a buisiness that needs to make money. Temporary content creates a sense of urgancy to keep players playing.
I can agree with the merits on this but as I stated in the OP and the Video I belive this will alienate players, new and returning, in the long run. I haven’t seen any argument broguht forth that explain why this won’t be the case.

Because we, players in the game world, do not see this happen. We see new people come in and get hyped about changes every 2 weeks. We see new players being happy just like old players are. The only ones unhappy are hardcore completionists. And how many of them are there? Certainly not enough, having in mind that Anet is bravely continuing with their updates.

Boreale.3129:

Vayne.8563:

Boreale.3129:

I can’t believe people are actually defending temporary content. My friend is away from home right now and will be untill this arch is over, so he’ll miss it which is a shame because its one of the best updates we’ve had.

Now imagine that we get to fight Kralkatorik, or any other elder dragon in the living story. Do you reall think its fair that only the people who are playing at the time get to experience THE MAIN PLOT OF THE GAME?

And yet you come onto the forums to see most people defending temporary content because “having too much content is bad” and “it’s realistic”. Well i’ve got news for you guys, more content IS better, and I don’t play games to simulate real life.

Imagine if all the content we’ve had so far wasn’t temporary. 2 new dungeons, events on southsun that matter, a new area, Crab toss, story instances… The list goes on.

Making people do content that is temporary and not in there own time-frame is work, not fun, contrary to what Vayne said earlier.

I guarantee you content to fight an elder dragon won’t be temporary. I think you’re missing the entire point.

First, this content is like a festival. It’ll be back. There’ll be an opportunity to trade again with these people, just like SAB will be back. They’re making content which can be rotated in and out.

But when the main storyline is involved, that content won’t be temporary. You’re simply inventing something to try to prove a point. The stories in the Living World are intentionally left as not part of the main plot line, they’re sidelines that we can explore between major events in the world.

As such if they go away it’s not such a big deal.

Oh so Flame and Frost will come back for all those who missed it? And Sky Pirates?
There’s nothing wrong with more optional story lines in a game, unless it’s temporary so we’ll never see it again.

I’m making things up as much as you are, you don’t know what the future holds either. You can’t deny that the temporary content is making players leave the game and new players reluctant to buy it. Stop defending it so much just because Anet says it’s great.

You also haven’t given us one good point as to why temporary content is good.

I can deny that people are leaving the game over it or at least, I can deny that mroe people aren’t leaving than are coming back. I play the game and it’s packed. My guild is busy. We’ve broken a hundred members for the first time without doing any recruiting at all.

The game is doing fine. SOME players wont’ like the game and those players will leave. This is no different than ANY MMO.

You claim I have no evidence…where is yours?

My points are good, even if you don’t agree with them. Leaving everything in game splits the playerbase more than it needs to be split and creates a different kind of pressure that some people would find very hard to deal with.

Devata.6589:

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

There’s just no way to compare this to anything because it hasn’t been done before.

Probably for the same reason auto manufacturers have not embraced the concept of square wheels.

It’s not for the same reason.

Square wheels don’t serve any purpose. Living Story serves a purpose. Permanent content serves a purpose too. Anet has goals that work best with the LS instead of the traditional content patches.

Temporary content, such as has been provided by the Living Story, serves no purpose that could not be equally or better served by permanent content, which is what could have been and should have been provided with the Living Story.

Temporary content is, for anyone who happened to miss it, vaporware.

That’s your opinion. You are welcome to develop an MMO based on old principles and see if they are really better.

“That’s your opinion.” = “I can’t counter your argument.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “I can’t think of anything relevant to say.”

In my opinion, of course.

“That’s your opinion.” = “Arena.net thinks otherwise.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “You are here to play Arena.net’s game, with Arena.net’s rules. The LS is part of their design plan.”

And he did like the game but when Anet changed the rules he started to dislike the game, he finds that a pity for this game that has so much potential and where he already put a lot of time in.. But he knows if Anet continue like this he and many other people will stop playing so he it here to let Anet know there new rules or new way of thinking is bad.

Except that Anet actually has the metrics and based on those metrics, they’ve decided to move forward with this. Obviously they’re happy with the outcomes. If they weren’t they wouldn’t do this.

The game needed something and this is, according to Anet, the something it needed. If you’re looking for a different something, well, that’s sad, and all, and I’m not saying that sarcastically.

But to imply that Anet is losing more than it’s getting out of this is to say that you have more metrics than Anet and you know how many people are logging in.

I’m 100% convinced that if enough people were leaving over this, Anet would not be doing it.

Those who are saying that Anet doesn’t need to get people in the same places haven’t played other MMOs or aren’t understanding the way most MMOs are different from Guild Wars 2.

In most MMOs you don’t have this problem, because in most MMOs, everyone hangs out in the higest couple of zones and there are people around. By the same token in most MMOs the mid level zones are dead. And people have been saying the same thing about Guild Wars 2.

But because Guild Wars 2 makes all content viable and anyone can go anywhere, and because there are 26 large zones that people can explore, with caves and gullies and ways to hide from people even a short distance away, people think there’s no one playing the game. And that IS a problem in an MMO.

You’ve consistently seen threads in these forums about people saying the world is dead, my server is dead, the game is dead. That’s BEFORE the living story too.

The only place that wasn’t dead on some servers was Orr. But I don’t think Anet wanted everyone in Orr. Because new players starting out can’t go to Orr and that’s a bad look for the game and it’s not fun for them.

By putting everyone together, people see and meet other people. It’s a very festive atmosphere. I quite like it. Everyone is doing the new stuff, most people are friendly and helpful.

I saw people in the Sanctum Sprint stop before the finish line and let others win so they can get their achievements. Like it or not, I have never seen that happen in another MMO. The whole thing feels a whole lot like a party. It’s quite nice.

Now it may not be “your” personal cup of tea, but a whole lot of people seem to like it. Because some people play the game just to be in a world with lots of other people and this world is just too big to let everyone go where they want without artificially creating gathering spaces.

And moving the Living Story around lets Anet use the whole world. They’re even letting low level characters come and do the LS content, so they don’t have to level through low pop zones.

I think it’s great.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

There’s just no way to compare this to anything because it hasn’t been done before.

Probably for the same reason auto manufacturers have not embraced the concept of square wheels.

It’s not for the same reason.

Square wheels don’t serve any purpose. Living Story serves a purpose. Permanent content serves a purpose too. Anet has goals that work best with the LS instead of the traditional content patches.

Temporary content, such as has been provided by the Living Story, serves no purpose that could not be equally or better served by permanent content, which is what could have been and should have been provided with the Living Story.

Temporary content is, for anyone who happened to miss it, vaporware.

That’s your opinion. You are welcome to develop an MMO based on old principles and see if they are really better.

“That’s your opinion.” = “I can’t counter your argument.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “I can’t think of anything relevant to say.”

In my opinion, of course.

“That’s your opinion.” = “Arena.net thinks otherwise.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “You are here to play Arena.net’s game, with Arena.net’s rules. The LS is part of their design plan.”

And he did like the game but when Anet changed the rules he started to dislike the game, he finds that a pity for this game that has so much potential and where he already put a lot of time in.. But he knows if Anet continue like this he and many other people will stop playing so he it here to let Anet know there new rules or new way of thinking is bad.

Except that Anet actually has the metrics and based on those metrics, they’ve decided to move forward with this. Obviously they’re happy with the outcomes. If they weren’t they wouldn’t do this.

The game needed something and this is, according to Anet, the something it needed. If you’re looking for a different something, well, that’s sad, and all, and I’m not saying that sarcastically.

But to imply that Anet is losing more than it’s getting out of this is to say that you have more metrics than Anet and you know how many people are logging in.

I’m 100% convinced that if enough people were leaving over this, Anet would not be doing it.

I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. This WILL be effective, IN THE SHORT TERM. I can see Anet taking this route based off their metrics, but I can guarantee that it will hurt them more in the long run. By the time the realise their mistake it might be too late to rectify it. It WILL be a barrier to new players, and even if it’s only to SOME new players that is LESS new players then it would be otherwise.
The whole point of having no sub fee was so the game would be more accesable, Why take away that barrier if you’re just going to put another in it’s place?

Kaaboose.3897:

I’ve read all of the replies and all of the views and examples that have been given can be applied to new content that then stays in the game. Why must this content then be taken out of the game for any of these examples? Why can’t new content just be added to the Personal Story? Imagine if your personal story was on a limited time basis, Would that make it more immersive? Or more importantly would that imersion be worth excluding players that missed it in its timeframe?

Exactly this. The resource and time spent on developing such Living World could have secured a continued Personal Story. Now, it just seems that Personal Story is left to rot post Trahearne…….

Vayne.8563:

Those who are saying that Anet doesn’t need to get people in the same places haven’t played other MMOs or aren’t understanding the way most MMOs are different from Guild Wars 2.

In most MMOs you don’t have this problem, because in most MMOs, everyone hangs out in the higest couple of zones and there are people around. By the same token in most MMOs the mid level zones are dead. And people have been saying the same thing about Guild Wars 2.

But because Guild Wars 2 makes all content viable and anyone can go anywhere, and because there are 26 large zones that people can explore, with caves and gullies and ways to hide from people even a short distance away, people think there’s no one playing the game. And that IS a problem in an MMO.

You’ve consistently seen threads in these forums about people saying the world is dead, my server is dead, the game is dead. That’s BEFORE the living story too.

The only place that wasn’t dead on some servers was Orr. But I don’t think Anet wanted everyone in Orr. Because new players starting out can’t go to Orr and that’s a bad look for the game and it’s not fun for them.

By putting everyone together, people see and meet other people. It’s a very festive atmosphere. I quite like it. Everyone is doing the new stuff, most people are friendly and helpful.

I saw people in the Sanctum Sprint stop before the finish line and let others win so they can get their achievements. Like it or not, I have never seen that happen in another MMO. The whole thing feels a whole lot like a party. It’s quite nice.

Now it may not be “your” personal cup of tea, but a whole lot of people seem to like it. Because some people play the game just to be in a world with lots of other people and this world is just too big to let everyone go where they want without artificially creating gathering spaces.

And moving the Living Story around lets Anet use the whole world. They’re even letting low level characters come and do the LS content, so they don’t have to level through low pop zones.

I think it’s great.

I agree and understand on why being around other players is important and it IS, It’s a huge part of MMO’s and it’s exactly why I play them.
This is exactly why I was so excited by the manifesto: “We’ve taken everything you like about Guild Wars and put it in an MMO enviroment.”
It’s those moments when you are fighting a losing battle, when defeat is certain, then all of a sudden a stranger jumps in to assit you and together you topple that foe.
It when the gate of your fortress has just fallen, You’re ragtag crew of defenders pushed to the wall, fighting for their last moments of life when the renforcments smash into the rear of enmey lines.
And it’s also that moment when, against all odds, You run into someone you met previously in the most odd, remote, or unusally location and say "The hell are you doing here?
Yes, Other players are important in MMO’s BUT with the current way content is relased everyone is ONLY in the zones that are relevant to the current LS and in most cases this is only a handful of areas. The population is also, regularly, so much that you no longer feel like a group of people working towards a goal, but part of a hive mind.
Too many players is sometimes even worse then not enough.

http://www.shifteast.com/asia-trends/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/tokyo-summerland-packed-wave-pool.jpg

Kaaboose.3897:

There will be TOO MUCH content in the game in the future if it’s not taken away.
Anoteher one I just can’t get my head around. How is having a lot of content to play a bad thing? I’d call that good value for money. The only reason I ever thought there might be too MUCH content in WoW was because you were forced to grind through it when creating a new character to catch up. WoW negated this a bit by nerfing how much NEEDED to be done as time went by but GW2 doesn’t even need to do this since it’s nearly 100% grind free at endgame. Having more freedom to choose how I progress through the game is a great thing.

Five or so years ago, when I started to Play Jade Dynasty, there were only 100 levels. Now There is 300 levels. How willing to play thet game is a new player that discovers that game now?
yes, too much content scary away the players.
When a new player comes into GW2 and opens the map he will see the total amount of “quests” he has: Hearts, PoIs, Vistas, Skill Points. If he quites the game for a while for various RL reasons and comes back and sees the same amount he will feel happy. He doesnt need to catch up with anyone, but he would see those numbers increased then he will feel disappointed.
Imagine if he would quit again and come back and see even a larger number of “quests” he will quit it for good.
So, Temporary content is added content for the players who are in the game everyday but doesn’t scare away the players who come back after a while or are new players.

Ronah.2869:

Kaaboose.3897:

There will be TOO MUCH content in the game in the future if it’s not taken away.
Anoteher one I just can’t get my head around. How is having a lot of content to play a bad thing? I’d call that good value for money. The only reason I ever thought there might be too MUCH content in WoW was because you were forced to grind through it when creating a new character to catch up. WoW negated this a bit by nerfing how much NEEDED to be done as time went by but GW2 doesn’t even need to do this since it’s nearly 100% grind free at endgame. Having more freedom to choose how I progress through the game is a great thing.

Five or so years ago, when I started to Play Jade Dynasty, there were only 100 levels. Now There is 300 levels. How willing to play thet game is a new player that discovers that game now?
yes, too much content scary away the players.
When a new player comes into GW2 and opens the map he will see the total amount of “quests” he has: Hearts, PoIs, Vistas, Skill Points. If he quites the game for a while for various RL reasons and comes back and sees the same amount he will feel happy. He doesnt need to catch up with anyone, but he would see those numbers increased then he will feel disappointed.
Imagine if he would quit again and come back and see even a larger number of “quests” he will quit it for good.
So, Temporary content is added content for the players who are in the game everyday but doesn’t scare away the players who come back after a while or are new players.

I see this comparison a LOT in this thread but you’re all missing something with GW2. They have not, and do not apear to have any plans to, add more levels in the future. Anet hasn’t focused on grinding to stay comeptative which is exactly what you guys are refering to in these “Too much content puts people off.”
MMO’s like WoW “Nerf” the amount of experiance to reach max level to make it easier to catch up while GW2 doesn’t need to do this thanks to the solid cap as well as level scaling.
This content does not need to be done to stay competative so if you do not like it you have the option of just not doing it. This is another thing I really love about Guild Wars 2. It Gives (or gave) you so much freedom on how you could play it. I feel that freedom is being taken away with the focus on temporary content.
Players that don’t want that freedom could simply choose to ignore it and stay with the current story developments while ignoring all past content. Why do you feel it’s okay to take this away from the players that want it?
So there is a higher poplation in your current zone?
So you can feel more immersed?
So the world doesn’t get clogged with shallow content?
In my opinion that’s no reason to be isolating the players that want this content to stay. These goals can be achived in other ways that cater to a wider audiance without restorting to making content temporary.

Kaaboose.3897:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

AntiGw.9367:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

There’s just no way to compare this to anything because it hasn’t been done before.

Probably for the same reason auto manufacturers have not embraced the concept of square wheels.

It’s not for the same reason.

Square wheels don’t serve any purpose. Living Story serves a purpose. Permanent content serves a purpose too. Anet has goals that work best with the LS instead of the traditional content patches.

Temporary content, such as has been provided by the Living Story, serves no purpose that could not be equally or better served by permanent content, which is what could have been and should have been provided with the Living Story.

Temporary content is, for anyone who happened to miss it, vaporware.

That’s your opinion. You are welcome to develop an MMO based on old principles and see if they are really better.

“That’s your opinion.” = “I can’t counter your argument.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “I can’t think of anything relevant to say.”

In my opinion, of course.

“That’s your opinion.” = “Arena.net thinks otherwise.”
“Oh, yeah? Well, make your own!” = “You are here to play Arena.net’s game, with Arena.net’s rules. The LS is part of their design plan.”

And he did like the game but when Anet changed the rules he started to dislike the game, he finds that a pity for this game that has so much potential and where he already put a lot of time in.. But he knows if Anet continue like this he and many other people will stop playing so he it here to let Anet know there new rules or new way of thinking is bad.

Except that Anet actually has the metrics and based on those metrics, they’ve decided to move forward with this. Obviously they’re happy with the outcomes. If they weren’t they wouldn’t do this.

The game needed something and this is, according to Anet, the something it needed. If you’re looking for a different something, well, that’s sad, and all, and I’m not saying that sarcastically.

But to imply that Anet is losing more than it’s getting out of this is to say that you have more metrics than Anet and you know how many people are logging in.

I’m 100% convinced that if enough people were leaving over this, Anet would not be doing it.

I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. This WILL be effective, IN THE SHORT TERM. I can see Anet taking this route based off their metrics, but I can guarantee that it will hurt them more in the long run. By the time the realise their mistake it might be too late to rectify it. It WILL be a barrier to new players, and even if it’s only to SOME new players that is LESS new players then it would be otherwise.
The whole point of having no sub fee was so the game would be more accesable, Why take away that barrier if you’re just going to put another in it’s place?

But you don’t own a crystal ball and you have no idea if it will be good in the long term. You think, you believe, you suppose…that’s it. This is a conjecture of yours.

At any rate, think that Anet is doing longer term permanent content that they’ll filter into the mix with the Living Story. This is a stop gap measure, nothing more.

As time goes on, there will be more and more new content.

The OP suggests that too much temporary content can only be bad for the game. I agree. However, I don’t agree that we have too much temporary content.

It’s where you set that marker that makes a difference.

Vayne.8563:

However, I don’t agree that we have too much temporary content.

The thing is, it’s your subjective opinion, not a objective statement. Only your subjective opinion, nothing more. I toled you that before in another topic.

Why are you arguing with people, 100 hundred times in a day? I don’t get it. You don’t have facts, all you have is your own, subjective opinion, just like the others.

I’m not agree with your opinion. I think we have too much temporarily content. If you think it’s not, fine, but your opinion doesn’t change that fact, that GW2 has too much temporarily content. And I don’t see the point of your arguments against people, who don’t share your own opinion.

Kreslin.6832:

Vayne.8563:

However, I don’t agree that we have too much temporary content.

The thing is, it’s your subjective opinion, not a objective statement. Only your subjective opinion, nothing more. I toled you that before in another topic.

Why are you arguing with people, 100 hundred times in a day? I don’t get it. You don’t have facts, all you have is your own, subjective opinion, just like the others.

I’m not agree with your opinion. I think we have too much temporarily content. If you think it’s not, fine, but your opinion doesn’t change that fact, that GW2 has too much temporarily content.

Right I’m disagreeing with someone’s opinion, not stating something as fact. That’s how opinions work. Someone expresses an opinion and you disagree with that opinion.

Disagreeing with someone’s opinion doesn’t make it a statement of fact. In fact, the REASON I’m disagreeing it so show an alternate opinion.

The OP suggests that too much temporary content can only be bad for the game. I agree. However, I don’t agree that we have too much temporary content.

But aren’t we supposed to be looking at the “Long term”? That’s the point, is it not?

What’s conflicting about you is that:
You agree that too much temp content is bad, but you’re opposed to constant perm content, stating it would being overwhelming…but the alternative is having continual temp content…which would leave us with a string of temp content…which you disagree with.

I understand you can be on the fence about it, but all your posts seem to be focusing on how constant temp content is a good thing, and not stating a kind of compromise between the two.

Tachenon.5270:

Galen Grey.4709:

Imagine we’re in an alternative universe and imagine if this were gw1 at release. Imagine they did the living story over there. Every 2 weeks we get some temporary content akin to what we’re getting now but then after 1 year and a half we still get all the content of factions.

Now tell me if thats the case would the negativity regarding the temporary content be still justified?

Imagine it is 1886 and the Benz Patent-Motorwagen is equipped with square wheels.

sure no problem… but what does that have to do with what we’re saying? I am just trying to explain there is long term content coming (fact unless you believe we’ve been flat out lied to) that long term content is very likely to include new zones and new long term story. These living story chapters are just stuff for us to do while thats being developed. Hence my fictious scenario of what gw1 would look like if we had ls in between expansions.

Personally I would say that would make it perfect MMO. Or as close to perfection as one can get. Same with Gw2. Provided we get more meaningful / beefy content in the future (new zones / new storylines etc..) this living story would mean we’d have a high quality MMO with new stuff to do all the time. That has always been the holy grail of MMO. How many times have we heard its impossible to create more content then people consume. Well seems arenanet finally managed to proof that wrong.

Galen Grey.4709:

Tachenon.5270:

Galen Grey.4709:

Imagine we’re in an alternative universe and imagine if this were gw1 at release. Imagine they did the living story over there. Every 2 weeks we get some temporary content akin to what we’re getting now but then after 1 year and a half we still get all the content of factions.

Now tell me if thats the case would the negativity regarding the temporary content be still justified?

Imagine it is 1886 and the Benz Patent-Motorwagen is equipped with square wheels.

sure no problem… but what does that have to do with what we’re saying? I am just trying to explain there is long term content coming (fact unless you believe we’ve been flat out lied to) that long term content is very likely to include new zones and new long term story. These living story chapters are just stuff for us to do while thats being developed. Hence my fictious scenario of what gw1 would look like if we had ls in between expansions.

Personally I would say that would make it perfect MMO. Or as close to perfection as one can get. Same with Gw2. Provided we get more meaningful / beefy content in the future (new zones / new storylines etc..) this living story would mean we’d have a high quality MMO with new stuff to do all the time. That has always been the holy grail of MMO. How many times have we heard its impossible to create more content then people consume. Well seems arenanet finally managed to proof that wrong.

I’m not too sure making that content time-locked makes it “more than people can consume”. Most of those who have a lot of time on their hands can complete the tasks set for them in a few days.
Think you’re placing them a little too high up on that pedestal.

Shadowmoon.7986:

Galen Grey.4709:

None of the times in gw2 we had situations where it was impossible to get an item.

After doing Hundreds of Fractal daily I have never gotten a fractal dagger due to the double RNG nature. Currently I have never gotten any of the 3 weapon tickets from temporary content, and its not because I haven’t been trying. RNG is RNG, because of this it is very possible for a situation where it will be impossible for someone to get the lucky roll, and the temporary timeline makes it worse. Couple that with what appears that the RNG is not very random which I have definitely observed in fractal daily chests (constantly getting the same fractal weapons and rings with little variations). Whatever their seed they use for their RNG seems to label some accounts a lucky while other will never get anything good.

Dont mean to be harsh and I am truely sorry you missed stuff you wanted. Lets however make a distinction between impossible to get and didnt manage to get.

As for RNG not being random its impossible to say without knowing what they use for seed and how rng is applied. It could be their seed isnt random enough sure. It could be thakittens just a conincidence. Rng is rng like you said. It could also be some stuff have higher odds then others. Who knows.

That being said I dont believe in my account is lucky or mine is unlucky. Like I said in a previous post I had 0 tickets drop from the karka chests and i had 3 drop from the dragon chests. When I was doing SAB I didnt get a single skin drop except for the very last day where I had 4 drops. Sometimes the gods of RNG smile on you sometimes they…. dont smile on you.

Is it possible for the gods to not smile on you… sure. Its entirely possible you dont get a single drop.. been there and done that myself does it mean it was impossible to get that whatever it was I was trying to get ? no it was possible I just didnt manage its entirely different. For all we know I could have played 10 seconds more and the next drop would be the lucky one. on the other hand I could have played the rest of the game’s life time and still never got the drop.

Kaaboose.3897:

Immersion?
Too much content is scary to players. They need that choice taken away from them so they won’t be pressured into doing it.
Temporary content is great because it keep the comunity in the same place, instead of spreading it all over the place.
There will be TOO MUCH content in the game in the future if it’s not taken away.
Anet is a buisiness that needs to make money. Temporary content creates a sense of urgancy to keep players playing.

immersion

I disagree with a few of your views here. First thakittens reducing content. Its not, not by a long shot. We still get new additions to the game every month. Why do people keep forgetting there has always been some permanent stuff sprinkled in the temporary content? Even if there wasnt it would be keeping the amount of content consistent its just removing itself not other content with it.

The argument you mentioned regarding WoW is actually one of the reason why I think its a good thing thakittens temporary. Every MMO wants players to coalesce more or less. Thats because the strength of MMOs is having people play together. MMOs like WoW do that by invalidating old content. A T1 raid is released its left there permanently but thats not a problem becuase once T2 is released only new players and new alts are going to play it. Everyone else will move on to T2. Putting in some pointless numbers if WoW started with 100 units of content its not a problem its now 10000 units of content because everyone can only play 1 unit at a time. Gw2 isnt like that like you acknowledge yourself. if the game started with 100 units of content everyone can play those 100 units of content thus everyone is spread around those 100 of units. If it adds a 1000 units more permanently then now everyone is split between 1100 units. A lot of people acknowledge its already hard to group up for certain content. Growing the game by 100 times will make that 100 times worst!

Too much content is scary to players. They need that choice taken away from them so they won’t be pressured into doing it.

Its not so much as scary, but overwhelming really. Actually I am curious how not more players agree here. A common argument we heard is because content is time gated people are being pressured in doing quickly there by burning them out. These people feel that having that content permanent will solve this but really I think it will make it worst… much worst. Again lets us pointless numbers. Lets say we get 10 hours of content every 2 weeks and these people can only play 8 hrs a week. But because they want to get that done and get the reward they’re cramming those 10 hrs into 8 and thus feel burned out. Fair enough. Because content is temporary every new content release leaves 10 hrs of content for these people to do. Great. If it were permanent it would be another story the claim is. Since they can only play 8 hrs, they’ll play those 8 hrs and leave the other 2 for the when they’ll get the chance. One problem every single 2 weeks they’re still going to get 10 hrs of stuff to do and they’ll still will be only be able to play 8. So either either they’ll still never get around to complete the old content or by the 3rd release they’ll not experience any of the new content ever again. I dont see that making anything better its just increasing the pressure because in 1 year time instead of having to fit 10 hrs into 8 they need to fit 114hrs in 8. How will that make them feel more relaxed? On top of that as if that wasnt bad enough there is the long term content that will be released in the meantime. That alone will be other 100s of hours of content to do most likely.

Ferik.3127:

Kaaboose.3897:

I’ve read all of the replies and all of the views and examples that have been given can be applied to new content that then stays in the game. Why must this content then be taken out of the game for any of these examples? Why can’t new content just be added to the Personal Story? Imagine if your personal story was on a limited time basis, Would that make it more immersive? Or more importantly would that imersion be worth excluding players that missed it in its timeframe?

Exactly this. The resource and time spent on developing such Living World could have secured a continued Personal Story. Now, it just seems that Personal Story is left to rot post Trahearne…….

so in your opinion. When Colin said this

“The Living World teams are only a small chunk of the total developers at ArenaNet, we’ll be going into details on what many of those other teams will be doing in a blog later this month.
We also have teams working on much longer term projects, which we will discuss when they are closer to arrival.”

What content do you think he meant?

Kaaboose.3897:

I agree and understand on why being around other players is important and it IS, It’s a huge part of MMO’s and it’s exactly why I play them.
This is exactly why I was so excited by the manifesto: “We’ve taken everything you like about Guild Wars and put it in an MMO enviroment.”
It’s those moments when you are fighting a losing battle, when defeat is certain, then all of a sudden a stranger jumps in to assit you and together you topple that foe.
It when the gate of your fortress has just fallen, You’re ragtag crew of defenders pushed to the wall, fighting for their last moments of life when the renforcments smash into the rear of enmey lines.
And it’s also that moment when, against all odds, You run into someone you met previously in the most odd, remote, or unusally location and say "The hell are you doing here?
Yes, Other players are important in MMO’s BUT with the current way content is relased everyone is ONLY in the zones that are relevant to the current LS and in most cases this is only a handful of areas. The population is also, regularly, so much that you no longer feel like a group of people working towards a goal, but part of a hive mind.
Too many players is sometimes even worse then not enough.

http://www.shifteast.com/asia-trends/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/tokyo-summerland-packed-wave-pool.jpg

Honestly thats not going to change no matter what you do (well you could stop releasing new content but do we really want that?)

The majority of the players are going to gravitate towards the new content because who doesnt like a new shiny? The question remains where the smaller group no longer running after the shiny will be found. And the answer changes. The most stuff there is the more thinly spread it will be.

This is the same exact reason why we have money sinks. If you keep adding and adding without removing the whole system will collapse. The same thing applies to content. If you’ve go 1 million players and 1 million things to do there is a good chance you’ll be doing the whole game solo.

nethykins.7986:

Galen Grey.4709:

Tachenon.5270:

Galen Grey.4709:

Imagine we’re in an alternative universe and imagine if this were gw1 at release. Imagine they did the living story over there. Every 2 weeks we get some temporary content akin to what we’re getting now but then after 1 year and a half we still get all the content of factions.

Now tell me if thats the case would the negativity regarding the temporary content be still justified?

Imagine it is 1886 and the Benz Patent-Motorwagen is equipped with square wheels.

sure no problem… but what does that have to do with what we’re saying? I am just trying to explain there is long term content coming (fact unless you believe we’ve been flat out lied to) that long term content is very likely to include new zones and new long term story. These living story chapters are just stuff for us to do while thats being developed. Hence my fictious scenario of what gw1 would look like if we had ls in between expansions.

Personally I would say that would make it perfect MMO. Or as close to perfection as one can get. Same with Gw2. Provided we get more meaningful / beefy content in the future (new zones / new storylines etc..) this living story would mean we’d have a high quality MMO with new stuff to do all the time. That has always been the holy grail of MMO. How many times have we heard its impossible to create more content then people consume. Well seems arenanet finally managed to proof that wrong.

I’m not too sure making that content time-locked makes it “more than people can consume”. Most of those who have a lot of time on their hands can complete the tasks set for them in a few days.
Think you’re placing them a little too high up on that pedestal.

Well lets put it this way. So far the major argument against temporary content has been its burning me out cause I cannot complete it in time. I dont doubt some hardcore players complete it in a few days and end up having nothing new to do the rest of the time. I also have no doubt a good number of those didnt really complete it just did the bare minimum to get the reward and stopped playing it. But that being said I have yet to hear anyone say the temporary content we’re getting every two weeks is just too little which I would assume means for the majority of the player base its just enough content for 2 weeks.

nethykins.7986:

The OP suggests that too much temporary content can only be bad for the game. I agree. However, I don’t agree that we have too much temporary content.

But aren’t we supposed to be looking at the “Long term”? That’s the point, is it not?

What’s conflicting about you is that:
You agree that too much temp content is bad, but you’re opposed to constant perm content, stating it would being overwhelming…but the alternative is having continual temp content…which would leave us with a string of temp content…which you disagree with.

I understand you can be on the fence about it, but all your posts seem to be focusing on how constant temp content is a good thing, and not stating a kind of compromise between the two.

No, I’m not on the fence. I’m all for caution with putting in permanent content. I love the idea of certain dungeons ending up as fractals for example. But we ARE getting permanent content. Something with every single upgrade.

The jumping puzzle last time, the drinking game this time, the moa racing, the queen karka and other events…these are all permanent. More permament stuff is coming. That will be 26 new additions a year, even if we only get one per event…but I’m sure we’ll get more as time goes on.

Basically I see permanent content going into the game, and I’m not thinking we have too much temporary because of it.

I don’t fence sit. I just don’t see the problem.

You really think that mini-games and a JP are on par with new dungeons and skins?

nethykins.7986:

You really think that mini-games and a JP are on par with new dungeons and skins?

Of course not. I clearly think that mini-games and JPs are SUPERIOR to dungeons.

I say that only half in jest. There are a lot of people who love running dungeons. There are a lot of people who won’t TOUCH a dungeon. Do you know how many people are in each camp? I bet you think most MMO players love instances, but in my experience it’s not completely true.

Most MMOs PUSH dungeons and so people DO dungeons, but there are plenty of people that, for example, solo MMOs…more than you’d believe? How do I know? Because game devs talk about them. They make content for them. Scott Hartsman from Rift said the solo population of a game can only be ignored at risk to a game.

Yes, I think the importance of dungeons in a game is greatly over-estimated by those who enjoy them.

Kaaboose.3897:

Pointy.9308:

Oh yeah, where the heck is Tony?

You know, sooner or later every conversation turns out that way.

Yeah, just as Orr was supposedly cleansed as part of the story, but the zone is still teeming with undead. What’s your point?

Well, the Orr is and isn’t cleansed or whatever. For a character that has done the entire story it is but for my lvl 6 guardian it isn’t. But what should be done about it? Change all the areas to state after Zaithans death and put every character that killed him on different server and there use the LS element? What about those who have not completed the story? They wouldn’t get the LS at all? Is there a time table of the LS somewhere? Does it all happen after Zaithan is dead or it is supposed to be like, you know, it can happen anytime? Because that would be my point. Zaithan is dead for certain characters and LS is done for everyone and every character no matter whether
you participate in it or not. No matter what part of the story sou are in right now there is the Molten Alliance threat and you either choose to deal with it or you leave it to others. And it changes both the pre and post story world.

I shouldn’t wrote all the things around. What I wanted to say, and I did say it in the end, yes we need more permanent content, I agree there. But the thing that LS is bad for GW2 isn’t true. What is wrong with new content, stories and characters every 14 days? You can do something new even though you reached lvl80, you are fully geared
up, you are a dungeon master and whatever else. And if you aren’t hardcore player the content will last you for couple days at least. And like I wrote, more permanent content is comming so what is really the problem? That you do not have the permanent content right now? You guys know what patience is? Afterall, GW2 is not even a year old.

Once again. You’re defending new content, not temporary content. This pops up time and time and time again in this thread. I should probably edit the OP to explain the diffrence. As for being able to solve the ORR and LS delemer look here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/How-to-Fix-the-Living-Story-in-Guild-Wars-2/first#post2245623
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmfD9TZI3rE

Well, you didn’t get it but I was deffending temporary content. But whatever. Lets not go that way, I do not wish to argue with you, I want us and the people to get to some middle ground that would work for everyone (read: most of us).

There are three parties (as always). Those in favor, those against it and those who doesn’t give a baby Charr. There is a percentage that represents all three sides. So, first of all we should learn the percentage from all the active players. Not from the forums, redit or youtube but from the game it self. If Anet puts a new interface in the game where you vote for or against certain thing you get better representation of all the people involved because all the people get asked. GW2 sold more than 3 million coppies, there is some percentage of it of the people that are active. Do you thihk all the active people comes to the forums? No. Not even most of them. So an ingame vote that would determine what at least most of the active players think would be better than assume that something is wrong because you or minority of all active palyers think. (this applies to other people and threads as well)

And now, after like month of voting or so, after you get the numbers you can more or less safely say that it is hurting the game or not. Because if more people say it is not wrong for the game even though you say it is, it is not becasue they are the majority. If you want take the forums as a sample please go ahead and count all the people who expressed their opinion in this or ther threads about the LS. See how many are pro and how many are aginst it from their posts. And if you count it, how many people is it? You get to couple of hundred? Well, there is a coulpe of hundred thousand active players so your forum sample is minority anyway.

Well, in the end, such a vote would be useless anyway. Because there are people on more than one side. You either loose one side completely or you satisfy both or most of them.

So again, I agree that we need more permanent content and I agree that temporary content is putting more preassure on SOME people. But I do not think that LS is ruining the game. Afterall, even though you can not go back, you still have new and new things to do every 14 days.

I agree with the op. I did every “living story” so far and don’t really have an idea whats it all about. To me it just has nothing to do with the lore. In my opinion they should have started adding things like crystal desert, isles of janthir, other dragons … anything but this.

The other thing for me is this updates were really not entertaining, I forced myself to get the achivement points (coz thats my gaming mentality) and thats it. So all in all each update entertained me for a few hours and then things got boring again. The only one I enjoyed was the advanture box.
I think they would be better off adding something like gvg asap rather then wasting resources on the living story. Gvg entertained many in gw1 for years. It’s gona be a year from relese soon and nothing of note was added in my opinion at least.

Vayne.8563:

I can deny that people are leaving the game over it or at least, I can deny that mroe people aren’t leaving than are coming back. I play the game and it’s packed. My guild is busy. We’ve broken a hundred members for the first time without doing any recruiting at all.

The game is doing fine. SOME players wont’ like the game and those players will leave. This is no different than ANY MMO.

You claim I have no evidence…where is yours?

My points are good, even if you don’t agree with them. Leaving everything in game splits the playerbase more than it needs to be split and creates a different kind of pressure that some people would find very hard to deal with.

Either the game is doing fine (hey, it’s packed!) and more people are coming back or the game is in a state in which dividing the playerbase is a problem (see: ‘ghost town’), which is only a problem if there aren’t enough players to go around. You can’t have it both ways. Which is it?

Galen Grey.4709:

Tachenon.5270:

Galen Grey.4709:

Imagine we’re in an alternative universe and imagine if this were gw1 at release. Imagine they did the living story over there. Every 2 weeks we get some temporary content akin to what we’re getting now but then after 1 year and a half we still get all the content of factions.

Now tell me if thats the case would the negativity regarding the temporary content be still justified?

Imagine it is 1886 and the Benz Patent-Motorwagen is equipped with square wheels.

sure no problem… but what does that have to do with what we’re saying?

A bad idea is a bad idea, regardless of when or where it’s implemented.

If anet had gone the ‘living story’ route with GW, we probably wouldn’t be here today talking about GW2.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

I can deny that people are leaving the game over it or at least, I can deny that mroe people aren’t leaving than are coming back. I play the game and it’s packed. My guild is busy. We’ve broken a hundred members for the first time without doing any recruiting at all.

The game is doing fine. SOME players wont’ like the game and those players will leave. This is no different than ANY MMO.

You claim I have no evidence…where is yours?

My points are good, even if you don’t agree with them. Leaving everything in game splits the playerbase more than it needs to be split and creates a different kind of pressure that some people would find very hard to deal with.

Either the game is doing fine (hey, it’s packed!) and more people are coming back or the game is in a state in which dividing the playerbase is a problem (see: ‘ghost town’), which is only a problem if there aren’t enough players to go around. You can’t have it both ways. Which is it?

Actually I can have it both ways. I’m not even sure why you can’t understand this problem.

WoW is the most successful MMO of all time, and it has dead zones and dungeons that don’t get done and wasted content out the kitten .

Do you think Guild Wars 2 has more players than WoW? I don’t. The combination of the playerbase being divided into Europe and the rest of the world, combined with the servers being separated combined with a casual player base that doesn’t ncessarily play every day and people taking time off and coming back…spread over 26 large zones…I’m really not sure what you expect.

If the most successful MMO of all time can have people complaining about empty zones, then I don’t see why Guild Wars 2, with far fewer players wouldn’t have something similar.

When I say EVERY MMO needs strategy to focus people I mean EVERY MMO. This doesn’t mean an MMO is going well and it doesn’t mean an MMO is doing badly. It means that an MMO needs strategies because the worlds are huge and a scattered player base ends up making the world feel empty.

Galen Grey.4709:

Too much content is scary to players. They need that choice taken away from them so they won’t be pressured into doing it.

Its not so much as scary, but overwhelming really. Actually I am curious how not more players agree here.

It’s simple.

People often leave games when they run out of things to do. They will run out of things to do more quickly if there are fewer things to do (due to, for example, temporary content) than if there are more things to do (lots of permanent content).

Personally, I prefer games with ‘overwhelming’ amounts of content. Games with a wide variety of content – content that will be there when I’m ready to tackle it. I feel GW2 got off to a good start in this regard, a great start, even, but now this living story deal just isn’t providing the growth the game needs.

I’d add few little words.
Most of the updates I find it hard to even consider being “content”. Content is something that should fill and improve the game, not small steps into side stories and numerous additional things to waste time time on.
Fractals were content update. Guild missions were content update. Significant changes in skills and traits was a content update. Everything else is not much different from mainstream “do that event”, multiplied by just as mainstream “do X times Y get achievement”.
We need permanent content that would contribute to competitiveness of the game in a more natural way than achievement points leaderboards. For example, additions to the list of skills, traits, builds, multiparty dungeons and a regular changes to wvw.
I won’t even talk about competitive spvp, as I believe it to be non-existent at this point.