I didn’t read all 5 pages, so this may have been said before. I’ll give the new system a fair shake before I praise or hate on it.
I’m a little worried about the lack of info on Laurel acquisition – they are the only real way I can get Ascended stuff since I am a confirmed non-crafter. I hope we can get as many Laurels as the Daily/Monthly used to provide without having to expressly select the “additional sum of Laurels” as our Log-in reward.
The screen capture they posted concerns me as well… I hope we see more than 4 things to choose from per day. (I am also a confirmed PvEer only). If we have to do 3 things for the Daily, I’d like to see at least 5 or 6 things to select from in each category.
At one time, the idea was that you should be able to complete your Dailies in the normal course of play without really thinking about it. Now they are saying flat out that they are dangling rewards in front of us in order to drive us towards specific content. Carrot. Stick. I just don’t want to wind up feeling obligated to do content I’d rather not do, like when they cut the number of Daily choices awhile back.
Time will tell. Those are my pre-release concerns, ANet.
Please stop bringing up money. Most developers are gamers.
They probably looked at the daily system and saw a potential for improvement.
Wait until something actually starts demanding more of our wallets before you bring money into an argument.
The thing is you miss in this point is that the devs only have some say in what they make, most of the time they are told (in the industry in general) what to develop by their boss. And given some of the stuff I have seen them do to this game, I am leaning more towards the money side of things.
How else can you explain the idiotic default dances they have here over how they were in GW? At best the dances were a mild entertainment on the side. Here, it is them trying to make a buck off of them. To me, it seems like a way to make them so stupid to encourage people to buy the dance instruction manuals.
How else can you explain (at least until people lost their minds and Anet realized it wasn’t such a good idea) the 400 gem block purchase from game gold when it was regular 1-whatever before? To me, that seems to be a blatant money grab attempt, by making it so inconvenient for people to buy gems that way that they would just say “forget it” and go buy them with real world money.
While I’m all in for meaningful achievements who challenge you to try new things, the newly announced “Log-in rewards” appear as a skinner-box technique that someone would expect from a Freemium mobile game.
I know that A-net are trying to make us keep coming back with the patches, and I accepted their “Log-in with each patch” approach to do so… but THIS is a bit to obvious, makes them look desperate, and IMO will generally hurt greatly the image of the game to outsiders. After all loging in is not something to justify a reward.
Besides that, not all of us can log-in every day so not to break the chain, ether because of work, being away from home (it’s not something you can do from your cell phone) or simply don’t feel like playing today.
The Biggest advantage GW2 has over paying MMOs is that you can stop any time without fearing of wasting the subscription you’ve paid, take some time off playing other games, and then just as easily jump back after a break to see what’s new.
Forcing us to get into the game every day will only cause us to burn out and downright quit it at some point.What do you people think?
IMO, the “log-in reward” is pushing it, and here’s why. Already you see all this bullkitten stuff going on how some how now competition is a bad thing. People get an attendance award just for showing up, instead of driving people to want to do better, it takes away any thought of that, and brings on more of a “why bother doing more” attitude. I see enough of that bullkitten IRL, it was nice not seeing that same attitude at least in GW2, guess we can kiss that goodbye now as well.
And if they have that at all it is that slap in the face that many people are talking about.
The blatant attempted money grab by totally kittening up the gem/gold exchange into 400 gem block purchase, same thing. Some of the improvements were actually improvements, but the single gem purchase needs to be the default, NOT total hassle to get to like how it is now.
So one extra click is a “total hassle” to get to the custom page? Now don’t get me wrong, making the exchange to be similar when buying gems with gold to buying gems with cash was, misguided and they did rectified it do a degree. Sure there is more work to be done on the Gem to Gold side, such as paying the exact amount back to the player rather than truncating off a few silver and an option to convert all gems to coin. I believe when players say gold they actually main in-game coin of whatever value, don’t take it so literally ANet. And the last round of tweaks on the TP UI has made it worse, not better, yet we’ve heard nothing about another round of fixes coming down the pike anytime soon.
The new daily/monthly system seems interesting to me. Though the re-division of PvE/PvP and now WvW as well seems counter-intuitive to the original merge (for better or for worse, I don’t know).
However, the Log-in Rewards scream “lazy desperation to increase statistics” to me. Like somewhere down the line of management promised a higher up ’we’ll increase log-in numbers’ and rather than going the proper route of making continuous playability enjoyable, they’re promoting log-in-once-and-leave mentality.
IMO, joining them together in the first place was a step in the wrong direction. This separation is needed, and should never have been necessary.
this is why I don’t hang out in real life with people that play games online. could you people kitten and moan any more? is it possible?.
the change has not even been made in the game yet and people need a box of tissues and some pills for the ulcer they are developing.
(edited by poisonality.8972)
As for the daily/monthlies. I think the problem we all have is it’s going to force us to change our routine. A routine that’s been burned into us over the last year since the last QoL change to achievements. Now we are going to have to change our routine to go and do some new requirement from a limited choice. As it is now we have 8 PvE (usually), 2 PvP and 2 WvW to do 5 of to get our daily. If the screen shot is any indication we now only have to do three out of 12, choice of four in each play type, to get 10 APs. So as someone who does PvE exclusively, you’ve cut me down from 5 of 8, most that you can do anywhere, to 3 of 4 specific activities that could be all over Tyria.
Sure it’s a good deal for PvP and WvW exclusive players, perhaps because activities like gather, salvage and kills can be done anywhere, it’s going to take me a lot longer than the 30 minutes to get 5.
I understand. Before LS 1 shepherded players all over the world, dailies too, but LS 2 is rather compact, existing in it’s new zone. I’m sure you have a lot of maps that even the megaserver can’t fill right now. So why don’t you look at adding, tweaking, modifying the events in those zones to draw more players rather than set up a global version of Whack-a-Dredge nightly?
I am reconsidering my position that I will wait and see before being concerned. What changed my mind? The new trait system. Since past performance is the best judge of future performance, I feel justified in being apprehensive. Also, if I expect the worst, and I do, then I can only be pleasantly surprised.
Firstly, incentifizing logging doesn’t mean people will burn out. That assumes they’d be doing certain things with in the game constantly after logging in. Even then, you and I do not have to log in for these rewards.
Secondly, this isn’t a new thing. Other games have it a plenty and I fail to see any negatives for the gamer associated with log in rewards.
GW more so isn’t, but GW2 as well, shouldn’t try to be just like other games. Otherwise, why play one over another?
Thirdly, there are plenty of ‘log-in’ rewards already. Camp your toon next to your home instance and gather resource nodes that reset daily, time-gated ascended materials, and certain events.
To answer some of your concerns though, log in rewards are not entirely and solely expected to Freemium mobile games, though they are there. Warframe, first game that comes to mind, uses log-in rewards.
“I know that A-net are trying to make us keep coming back with the patches, and I accepted their “Log-in with each patch” approach to do so… but THIS is a bit to obvious”
Not sure what you’re getting at here, but I hope that Anet is obvious with their design decisions geared at getting more players to keep coming back. That is what I define as a good game. The whole perception of Anet being desperate is a moot opinion, and I would prefer more points as to WHY it makes them seem desperate than just telling me.
Well, pointing out (again) some of the things they have done, and if you don’t see it that way, no amount of telling you them will make you see or not. That is totally up to you. And as far as why, unless we have official word from Anet, we may never know the real reason why. And while it is obvious that they are in it to make money, which I have no problem with, how they go about it is what is being brought into question.
(These are from my view, not based on any official word from Anet).
The dance emotes in 1 were a side thing. They saw how well they were received and they made the default ones lame and stupid and tried to make money off of it with the dance instruction manuals.
The gem store kitten up of requiring 400 gem block purchase for in game gold was, to me, a blatant money grab. Making it so inconvenient, which they are still doing, by not having it be the default screen, that people don’t bother and just buy with real world money.
The transmute stone/charge/crystal kitten up, to me, is still broke. With the forced exchange rate transmutes now cost 3X what they did before, and does less than half of what it did before. You do not even have the choice of using up the items you had before, which had more functionality. Now they treat everything as if it were a level 80.
“After all loging in is not something to justify a reward.”
Why not?
Well, how about getting a trophy for just showing up type attitude? It is stupid already, and happens far too much already as it is. Now there is one more game that caved in to the bullkitten.
“Besides that, not all of us can log-in every day so not to break the chain, ether because of work, being away from home (it’s not something you can do from your cell phone) or simply don’t feel like playing today.”
Maybe you didn’t read the whole article:
“Missed a day because of work, vacation, or a work vacation? No worries, your progress is still there! The next time you log in, you’ll pick up where you left off. The system will only reset once you’ve claimed the 28th and final reward.”
“The Biggest advantage GW2 has over paying MMOs is that you can stop any time without fearing of wasting the subscription you’ve paid”
Non sequitor, but if you are implying that this log-in system thus diminishes this advantage then I would require more examples/points because otherwise it’s just conjecture.
It does diminish the achievement points awarded for actual work and effort obtained in getting them.
Just like real life, if you flood the market with something, a service, a product, whatever, then the value of those things is decreased. Basic market economics. If you have 1 million of something it is (usually) easier to get than if there are only 10. Go to a rare car auction to see examples.
“Forcing us to get into the game every day will only cause us to burn out and downright quit it at some point.”
Not forcing. It is an incentive.
An award just for showing up, like they have done to so many things IRL already, and made those things suck because of it. If you get a trophy just for showing up, why bother doing anything more?
Why is one of the rewards a Bag of Ascended Crafting Materials!? Cause we need more ways to get that stuff!!! /sarcasm
Seriously if you want to give us a “Bag of Ascended Crafting Materials” then fill it with Silk…copious amounts of silk…
Yes, it looks like where we could previously complete dailies all on one map,(and easily within 30 to 45 minutes) now we’re going to have to hop all over the place. Including high level areas that new players are going to have access to. And do things that only occur on a time table. So while the different, “more rewarding” rewards are nice, I think it will end up taking a lot more time to do dailies. And I wish we could have the option to do 3 of 5 instead. I can’t do most JP’s, which will limit my possible choices.
But thank you, thank you for separating PvE and non-PvE achievements.
The separation was there before, they should have never taken it out. It was supposedly to encourage players to try other areas by removing their choices. Which still boggles the mind how someone thought that that would be a GOOD thing.
Now, by “adding” things, they are removing even more actually useful and good stuff that is working now. Instead of fixing actually broke issues, we get more bells and whistles, more opportunities to kitten stuff up, again, still.
Anet, here is a little clue with how systems work, and if you want a real world example, look at how cars work now compared to how they worked before all these computers. They used to have cars with mechanical fuel pumps, not as efficient sure, but it was very easy to figure out what was wrong. Easier to figure out and fix.
Me personally, I do not do JPs if at all possible, have not ever, nor do I ever intend to do PvP, and I only do a minimal of WvW. Each of these adjustments that they make seem to me to be trying to force/encourage people into other parts of the game that they might not want to do.
~Snip~
I won’t quit, but I can promise you this, you won’t see any money from me ever again. This isn’t supposed to be dramatic or anything. People seem to like it as is their right but I don’t. I still stand by saying this cheap psychological tricks have no place in AAA development and for me personally, it’s enough to come to the conclusion that you don’t want my money.
~Snip~
You better get used to it because this is the direction gaming is going, even the AAA titles. Do you use, Steam? If you do, then you’d know they give out those stupid Trading Cards as a reward for logging into to play specific games, whether you actually play that game or not. It’s going to be the norm sooner or later so you might want to think about that…it’s just an added layer of ‘achievement’.
(edited by Zaklex.6308)
I find it mind boggling people can complain about getting rewarded for logging in. Its like they are saying “Anet please reward me less and stop trying to get players to log in everyday.”
I find it mind boggling that more people DON’T have an issue with it. Re showing-up trophy issues that are far too common already. If they want to do that, I guess it is going to happen, but don’t kitten over achievement points actually earned by adding this to that pile.
OK, so from all the posts, this is how I understand the new system to work:
1. AP from Daily/Monthly is now combined and capped at 15,000. (Which would put me at just about 10k right now.)
2. Dailies are now split up into PvE, PvP and WvW. There will be 4+ Dailies in each category. You only need to complete 3 Dailies, across any of the three categories, to get your “Daily AP” reward, which is 10. (Which means that I’d complete my last 5000 AP in 500 days. This is actually a good change for me since I was at 8.6k Dailies, but only about 1.7k Monthlies, meaning that in order to hit the 5k limit for Monthlies, I’d need to be playing GW for more than 4 years.)
3. Each Daily now has a bonus reward associated with it, such as getting a bonus Pristine Fractal Relic for a daily Fractal run, or extra WvW XP for capturing a Tower. These rewards can still be obtained even after you complete 3 Dailies for the AP.
4. Laurels and Mystic Coins have now been moved to a Login Calendar, which also contains a bunch of other rewards that you get simply for logging in. (Will need more information about what the rewards are like, but I don’t think ANet will drastically reduce the number of Laurels/Mystic Coins being given out.)
Overall, I’m quite excited for these changes. It means I won’t need to spend an hour or two every day doing every single Daily; I can just pick the 3 Dailies that most appeal to me each night (or the 3 that are most profitable), and just pick up whatever else comes through normal play. (Assuming that Dailies like “Kill 50 foes”, “Daily Gatherer” and “Daily Interrupter” still exist.)
Yes, it does feel a bit like a skinner box getting us to hit the lever more often, but eh, I was already hitting the lever every day anyway. :P This way I’ll actually be getting MORE rewards just for showing up every day.
not loging in will not “break” the chain
if you are at “stage” 5 today and you dont log in for 10 days, you will be at stage 6 when you do log in after 10 days….
The only bad thing of NOT spending 1 minute on clicking a shortcut and log in buttons for the daily log in reward would be needing more than 28 irl days to get to the 28th reward.
as in: me and my friend both loged in every day for 27 days. he logs in the next day for his 28th reward, i dont.
he logs in the next day for his new 1st reward, i log in for my 28th reward.I dont get what the big problem is here. People were whining about “having” to log in and doing random things for their daily rewards, and even doing more random stuff they dont like doing to get aaaaall the achievement points.
Now you have to do 3 things to get the max amount of achievement points, and you get a reward by just loging in….
PS:
-Anet: “FREE STUFF FOR EVERYONE WITH NO ACTION IN THE GAME REQUIRED!!”
-Players : " OMG REALY ANET!??! WOW SERIOUSLY!? Q_Q -makes treads on forums how horrible the idea is-how bad does this make the community look?
It makes perfect sense because the community has been asking them to fix actual problems for literally months in some cases, with no results, and yet Anet decides to roll out an unasked for, and judging by many of the posts, unexpected “improvement” by taking away more options as part of it. So it basically makes the community wonder where are the actually needed fixes are, and less why the bullkitten useless bells and whistles are being put in first.
I dont get what the big problem is here.
I think in the end the answer is: Haters gonna hate
Yet one more person not looking at enough of the stated issues. Yes there are some kittening just to kitten, but you are lumping everyone in with that, and that is not fair of you, just like claiming that people who post the comments like you did are stupid clueless idiots wouldn’t be fair or accurate.
The main issue is that Anet isn’t fixing the known (reported, repeatedly) issues before rolling out questionable improvements like this. Yes there will be bugs, it is the way computer programs often work. But time spent actually fixing those bugs before adding more stuff that is likely to have even more bugs, given their track record.
Why complain?
Because Anet isn’t fixing actual issues before adding more stuff that given their record so far is likely to introduce even more problems.
I still don’t see how just logging in should be rewaded other than to serve as a tool to condition players into logging in frequently. Not long, just frequently; make it a part of their daily routine. That’s how exploitative games work and something I never thought ANet would incorporate in their game.
The daily change is nice, this is just downright insulting. If you want to be treated like a lab animal, that’s your choice. I however still have some pride left and don’t want to be seen as a walking moneybag, where the first priority is: ‘How can we pull the most money out of that sucker?’ instead of ‘How can we make the game the most fun so this player wants to give us his money?’
Pray tell, how is giving people some free stuff for logging in in any way related to the gemstore and them “wanting to give us our money”
Do you need a special gemstore item to get the item fro logging in? is there ANYTHING you’d need frm the gemstore to get this free stuff?
Answer, NO
It’s ridiculous that no matter how irrelevant it is, people will always try to make this into a thing that’s created solely to promote the gemstore.
It might not be solely to make more money from the gemstore, but I believe it is a strong motivator. Why would a company pay millions of dollars for a 30 second spot during the Super Bowl that at other times of the year would only cost a small fraction of that? Because of exposure. The more people you have logging in because of this ridiculous trophy for showing up (not to mention the kittening over of actually earned achievement points because of it) the more exposure the gemstore is likely to get because of it.
removal of monthlies and combination of monthly/daily points? Does this mean that the new cap is 15000 AP? Other than that concern, i think i will like these changes.
Yes, combined at 15,000.
Well, with that addressed, I think it’ll be a fully positive change, can’t wait to see how it works
OK, so from all the posts, this is how I understand the new system to work:
1. AP from Daily/Monthly is now combined and capped at 15,000. (Which would put me at just about 10k right now.)
2. Dailies are now split up into PvE, PvP and WvW. There will be 4+ Dailies in each category. You only need to complete 3 Dailies, across any of the three categories, to get your “Daily AP” reward, which is 10. (Which means that I’d complete my last 5000 AP in 500 days. This is actually a good change for me since I was at 8.6k Dailies, but only about 1.7k Monthlies, meaning that in order to hit the 5k limit for Monthlies, I’d need to be playing GW for more than 4 years.)
3. Each Daily now has a bonus reward associated with it, such as getting a bonus Pristine Fractal Relic for a daily Fractal run, or extra WvW XP for capturing a Tower. These rewards can still be obtained even after you complete 3 Dailies for the AP.
4. Laurels and Mystic Coins have now been moved to a Login Calendar, which also contains a bunch of other rewards that you get simply for logging in. (Will need more information about what the rewards are like, but I don’t think ANet will drastically reduce the number of Laurels/Mystic Coins being given out.)
Overall, I’m quite excited for these changes. It means I won’t need to spend an hour or two every day doing every single Daily; I can just pick the 3 Dailies that most appeal to me each night (or the 3 that are most profitable), and just pick up whatever else comes through normal play. (Assuming that Dailies like “Kill 50 foes”, “Daily Gatherer” and “Daily Interrupter” still exist.)
Yes, it does feel a bit like a skinner box getting us to hit the lever more often, but eh, I was already hitting the lever every day anyway. :P This way I’ll actually be getting MORE rewards just for showing up every day.
That’s not the way I read it…you can do either 3 PvP, 3 WvW or 3 PvE…I don’t think you can mix and match. Unless that is what you meant an I misread your comment, and if I misread your comment, apologies in advance.
Sounds more like, lets get players out of their routines and all over the available maps rather than spawn and then despawn the same series of maps every 15 minutes.
Sounds more like “let’s take away currently available options (again) to encourage people to want to do more stuff”. Remember before when the dailies were split into categories before? When you had an actual larger choice of daily options to chose from instead of them all being lumped into one pile?
It seems more like yet another case of “if it ain’t broke, let’s kitten with it” than actually doing something to fix actual issues that are known.
It leaves something stale and bland in my mouth that over-saturates the already over-rewarding reward system.
Over-rewarding reward system? What?
GW2 is one of the most heavily RNG saturated, unrewarding mmos to ever exist.
-snip for brevity sake-
This. Is. A. Video. Game.
There is no “effort”. There is no “work” being done. You haven’t accomplished anything amazing with any of these achievements. Not a single one. You haven’t accomplished anything worthy of saying you did any kind of “work”, whether you’re a pvp champion or the first person to solo the triple worm raid.
All you’ve done is press some buttons in a particular order, on a keyboard, on a program designed purely for entertainment purposes.
“work” and “effort” exist only in the real world, and that’s where they need to stay. Video games are about fun and entertainment. It’s time you accepted that and stopped pretending like you’ve done anything meaningful to make you so angry over “participation awards”.
You realize that you are living in a world where everywhere you go, everything you do is done exactly like this – it’s good business really.
Walk through a mall, a store, read the news, a magazine it is simply everywhere, you can’t escape it. ANet would be foolish not to employ methods that are working for virtually everything. Free samples at the supermarket, 30 day and your money back etc. etc. this kind of marketing is as old as the idea of marketing itself.
I admire your principles but you are living in a fantasy world if you think that you are insulated from this. ANet doesn’t treat us like lab rats, they are following marketing principles that work everywhere. It is you the educated consumer that will make the decision on whether to “buy” or not.
I am at a loss at how instead of fixing something that is actually broke to add more stuff with more chance of having issues is “good business”. Last I checked, if you wanted to make money, you made a good product that people would want to buy, not sell a starter model of something, then as you go, instead of fixing problems that the users are letting you know about, here, let’s add another station to the radio. Steering wheel is loose? Let’s put blinkers on the mirror and a glowing button on the dash that does nothing useful. Yes, great business idea. I don’t know why I missed it for so long.
That’s not the way I read it…you can do either 3 PvP, 3 WvW or 3 PvE…I don’t think you can mix and match. Unless that is what you meant an I misread your comment, and if I misread your comment, apologies in advance.
The original quote from the release page was:
“Instead, we’ve created a new meta-achievement for completing any combination of three daily achievements from any category.”
I interpreted that to mean you can do any 3 combined Dailies from any of the 3 categories to get the AP reward, although it’s possible that your interpretation is correct, of course. We probably need an ANet dev to confirm this for us.
This is really not worth complaining about. Dailies change, so what? It’s just dailies. The new system looks all right.
Meanwhile after the CDI there is still no guild halls or raids announcement, no GvG CDI, no new WvW or PvP maps, no new skills or weapon types, no SAB… These are things worth complaining about, not the new dailies.
Not worth complaining about? Let’s take a closer look at that. This is allegedly to give people more opportunities, so you would think. Before, large pile of dailies, 3 separate categories, and you had to do 5 total for the daily. I don’t remember specifically how many total but let’s say there were 8 from each category. I believe there were more. That would give you a ratio of 5/24, which works out to roughly 20%.
Next “improvement” to dailies, everything combined to one overall category, still need 5 for achievement. Currently being selected from a total of 12 options. That works out to needing to do 5 of 12. Larger percentage of the total pile to get the achievement, works out to just over 41.5%. Less choices available.
This proposed “improvement” to the dailies. Have to do 3, which on the face, sounds like an improvement. I am not sure but the number 4 was thrown around as the choice from each category, we will have to wait and see to be sure. Let’s use that for comparison though. That would mean 3/12 which sounds like an improvement over the last one, which it is, but still waiting for the other shoe to drop. They seem to take away more actual good stuff and give us little to nothing actually helpful in exchange.
IMO SAB sucked anyway, not going to complain about it not being here. Was never into WvW that much, PvP or GvG at all, also not going to be missed by me. The addition of achievement points strictly for logging in over actually earned achievement points? Kind of defeats the purpose of calling them that, since you don’t have to actually achieve anything to get them any more. It is kind of like calling every skill point a skill point, even the ones where you just had to eat something or stand there with your char in an odd pose uninterrupted. Took a lot of skill for that.
People seem to be forgetting that the reward for completing 3 achievements is more than the rewards for completing all of the daily achievements. Making these achievements not be able to be completed passively seems justifiable to me.
Despite the appearance, they were not “passive” at all, you had to actually go out and play the game to get them, they just were tied in so you doing the basic stuff was enough to get them. Technically they are passive in that respect anyway. You got them automatically for doing what was required, if you were trying for them or not. Is that a bad thing now?
Even if that’s true there are some of us who don’t ever or rarely venture beyond PvE, which means our choices are now very limited. I don’t think there’s a carrot big enough to get me to try PvP. I simply don’t have the hand/eye skill anymore at my age. And while WvW is kind of fun in a paintball weekend kind of way, it’s not something I would be thinking of doing daily.
GG, the whine is extremely unwarranted.
For reference purposes, many people think “whine” means “any view that I don’t happen to share”. Sometimes also (ridiculously) responded to with QQ.
Does this mean they’ll start fixing the broken world events if they’re needed for dailies? Or am I too optimistic here.
Yes you are too optimistic, at least in regards to this. I wouldn’t hold my breath on that if I were you. One of the improvements they did for some of the heart completion (listed on the to do part and everything) was to make it not work at all.
Looks kinda cool. Too little information to analyze the details at this point. Will hold off judgment until release.
Also, please fix your overactive filter one of these days. I couldn’t even type a synonym of analyze without it turning my word into kitten. That word that’s spelled similar to access, but with all s’s.
Anet’s filter has had issues in GW1 as well. In Factions I believe it was, one of their own NPC char names couldn’t get past the filter if you had it on. Not even sure if that same filter will let it show here, but I am referring to Captain Quimang from the Shing Jea island explorable area on the west side of the island, if I remember correctly.
Again another feature/change nobody had asked for….
Both of the new features are things people have requested in the forums, multiple times at that.
Really? People asked to be given items just for simply logging in?
I’ve never seen that.
And if such was requested, I’m sure they’d be in the minority and ridiculed for wanting to be given stuff for doing nothing.
And yet this is exactly what is happening with this latest “improvement”. And by result, the value of the achievement points earned up to now get trashed each time anyone earns any achievement points just for logging in. Somehow that is OK, but the items is what you have concerns about?
Lyssan, I don’t agree with your point of view. Imho they fixed a lot of things that are broken. example: the dailies until now had quite terrible rewards. Always the same bland mystic token, karma (for what?) and a laurel.
The new system rewards you for your effort: the harder the daily – the better the reward. You also get stuff that matters for you since it’s content-related. Furthermore people don’t feel compelled to do every daily that’s available just to get the most possible achievementpoints.
To go on with the fixes: you finally have a non-mystic forge way of being rewarded with mystic clovers and other mats that contribute to your legendary crafting. You have to choose though… a chest of laurels OR a chest with ascended mats (people swimming in those won’t get more of them, also a fix in my eyes) OR a chest with Legendary-mats OR a chest with experience (something really useful to help leveling alts – another problem)
So for me an overall good change which fixes quite a lot of problems.
(and who is telling you that they don’t work on bugfixes at the same time?)
Daily Reward Changes: Love the dailies idea to add variety. This is going to be awesome!
Monthly Rewards: Log-in rewards? Seriously?!? For people who don’t have more than a few days a week to play, and like to crank out the monthlies through some focused efforts, this is really going to put them at a disadvantage just because they don’t log in as often.
Better idea? More variety to the existing monthly system or coming up with something that is done “in-game” to get the reward for those who are dedicated players, but who aren’t able to log in as frequently.
IMO even better idea is to put the dailies choices back to what it was before (and the monthlies too) as far as possibilities, break the piles back up to 3 separate sections again (PvE, WvW, and PvP), keep a cap on the achievement points reward for dailies and monthlies appropriate to their overall section, but still let people do more for the experience to help with leveling characters. While they are fixing stuff they kittened up, change the leveling back to how it was before, 1 skill point per level instead of a group of them only at certain levels, make the weapon skills unlock like they did before, let people learn how to play the game. Bring back the bundle stuff for the hearts in the starter areas, and the underwater combat. Basically, unkitten everything that has been kittened up lately in the name of “improvements” of things that were “too confusing”.
I think some might be confusing Achievement Points with rewards. It doesn’t sound like any APs will be rewarded for ‘just logging in’. You will still have to ‘work’ for any Achievement Points.
And as for the Gem Store, if these people are just logging in, grabbing their rewards, and logging right back out (that seems to be the concern – that they aren’t actually working toward anything), then it is unlikely they will decide to peruse the offerings of the Gem Store.
But…if they did….yay! More revenue and resources for the Devs to create more content for those that want to ‘work’ toward whatever it is they desire. If these players only log into the game for the Login Rewards, they probably weren’t going to log-in (to work at anything), anyway. Seems like win/win to me.
Anet is a business in a very competitive industry. Giving people prizes for logging in, for some people anyway, get them to log in. If they do nothing else but log in and then log back out it’s not going to be very successful.
But at least some of them will log in and play some. Maybe do a daily. Maybe find something new or fun. The thing is all businesses want more money. They all make decisions to try to get more money.
Making a decision like this to get people logging in is actually easier to do than find certain bugs.
I’m not surprised at the over-reaction, because it’s often an over-reaction on these forums.
But telling a company they shouldn’t make changes to improve their business isn’t really all that helpful.
And no one can guarantee fixing some of the bugs will improve their business more than this will. In fact, I strongly suspect it wouldn’t.
The login daily for rewards seems awfully close to what a lot of scummy freemium games do. Not impressed.
The old monthly could be spread out over the month or done on a weekend.
(edited by Shinzan.2908)
Please don’t further incentivize people to run Fractals. I already feel annoyed when Daily Fractal comes up on the Daily list, and I’ll feel even worse if it offers a bunch of even better rewards. If you want players to run Fractals, make Fractals take less time to run, don’t try to bribe us into it.
The blatant attempted money grab by totally kittening up the gem/gold exchange into 400 gem block purchase, same thing. Some of the improvements were actually improvements, but the single gem purchase needs to be the default, NOT total hassle to get to like how it is now.
So one extra click is a “total hassle” to get to the custom page? Now don’t get me wrong, making the exchange to be similar when buying gems with gold to buying gems with cash was, misguided and they did rectified it do a degree. Sure there is more work to be done on the Gem to Gold side, such as paying the exact amount back to the player rather than truncating off a few silver and an option to convert all gems to coin. I believe when players say gold they actually main in-game coin of whatever value, don’t take it so literally ANet. And the last round of tweaks on the TP UI has made it worse, not better, yet we’ve heard nothing about another round of fixes coming down the pike anytime soon.
Point being it worked before, they kittened it up, they should change it back to at least close to how it was before. And for the record, there is more issues than 1 click, and this wasn’t the only thing kittened up in that overall window. 1 click to get to the screen that should be there as default, and the amount shown when you get there defaults to 400 with no immediately obvious way you can change it. First few days I had no clue you could even select a different amount. The trading post has arrows up and down, why not there as well? Why not make it obvious you can select other stuff if not setting the default to something different than the other screen?
Secondly, when the improved trading post (yes they did add some actual improvements) first came out, you could see highest buy/lowest sell offers, and click up or down or for me anyway mousewheel to adjust the price. For a while there, and it is still not back to normal, if you were selling something and it was different than the current lowest sell, your entry instead of being shown at the top, got switched around and was then at the bottom, so the sell list was highest sell at top to lowest sell at bottom, complete reverse to how it was before. There are other issues, but still the overall point applies here. They “improve” stuff instead of fixing what is actually broken first, and most of the time, it just adds more problems that they should fix, but will most likely end up ignoring as well.
I’m more than a bit dubious on the new system based on the small amount of information posted (mainly the screenshot).
Before, you had generic dailies you could mostly do anywhere. Kill stuff, dodge stuff, gather stuff, ect. Not specific items or locations, anything and anywhere. Sure, some areas were better for some dailies than others, but on the whole you could complete or at least progress your dailies anywhere. There were a few region-specific dailies (the regional killer ones) but those were always just one of a batch, so you could usually skip them. Which was good, because it meant that no matter what you were doing and where you were playing, you’d eventually end up getting your dailies done. And that was the point, it was an extra reward for playing the game in whatever way you chose.
This new system, though… it seems exactly the opposite of that. At least, again, based on the screenshot. Every single one of those dailies involves a specific activity in a specific region. Its no longer “do whatever you were going to do and you’ll get them done eventually”, now it seems like you’ll have to intentionally set out to specific areas and do specific tasks. Want your daily for the day on the day that screenshot is posted and you only do PvE? You’ll be travelling to no less than 3 different areas, and that’s assuming you’re already at one of them when you log on. You were planning on doing a bit of Dry Top farming that day? Well, too bad, nothing there can give you a daily, off you go to somewhere else.
It just seems to be contrary to what dailies were set up to be. Heck, maybe that’s the point, maybe Anet just isn’t happy with that system any more. Personally, though, I’d rather be free to do what I want to do and get dailies along the way than have a checklist of places I need to go and specific things I need to do.
That’s not to say there’s nothing good here. Its going to be great for the people who previously felt compelled to do EVERY daily for the AP, so that’s nice for those people. But that change could have been applied to the current Daily system just fine. More PvP / WvW stuff is nice, but it could have also applied to the current system as well.
Then again, I guess all the rewards from the “new” dailies (sans AP) are going to be new and separate from the current dailies anyway. With the old stuff going into the logon reward calendar thing. So maybe I’m looking at it the wrong way. Maybe now all I need to do is logon and still do whatever I want, just ignore the dailies. The laurel is the main thing I do dailies for anyway. Though the AP is also nice. I’m hardly a huge AP follower, but its nice to work towards those chests at least.
OK, so from all the posts, this is how I understand the new system to work:
1. AP from Daily/Monthly is now combined and capped at 15,000. (Which would put me at just about 10k right now.)
2. Dailies are now split up into PvE, PvP and WvW. There will be 4+ Dailies in each category. You only need to complete 3 Dailies, across any of the three categories, to get your “Daily AP” reward, which is 10. (Which means that I’d complete my last 5000 AP in 500 days. This is actually a good change for me since I was at 8.6k Dailies, but only about 1.7k Monthlies, meaning that in order to hit the 5k limit for Monthlies, I’d need to be playing GW for more than 4 years.)
3. Each Daily now has a bonus reward associated with it, such as getting a bonus Pristine Fractal Relic for a daily Fractal run, or extra WvW XP for capturing a Tower. These rewards can still be obtained even after you complete 3 Dailies for the AP.
4. Laurels and Mystic Coins have now been moved to a Login Calendar, which also contains a bunch of other rewards that you get simply for logging in. (Will need more information about what the rewards are like, but I don’t think ANet will drastically reduce the number of Laurels/Mystic Coins being given out.)
Overall, I’m quite excited for these changes. It means I won’t need to spend an hour or two every day doing every single Daily; I can just pick the 3 Dailies that most appeal to me each night (or the 3 that are most profitable), and just pick up whatever else comes through normal play. (Assuming that Dailies like “Kill 50 foes”, “Daily Gatherer” and “Daily Interrupter” still exist.)
Yes, it does feel a bit like a skinner box getting us to hit the lever more often, but eh, I was already hitting the lever every day anyway. :P This way I’ll actually be getting MORE rewards just for showing up every day.
That’s not the way I read it…you can do either 3 PvP, 3 WvW or 3 PvE…I don’t think you can mix and match. Unless that is what you meant an I misread your comment, and if I misread your comment, apologies in advance.
(quote from the story page)
“As part of this change, we removed achievement points from the individual dailies. In the past, if you wanted to max out your achievement points, you’d have to do all ten daily achievements in a day and run all over the world. Instead, we’ve created a new meta-achievement for completing any combination of three daily achievements from any category. "
You know I made a joke about login monthly achievements last week………..be careful what you joke about?
It is all your fault….
XD :P
Lyssan, I don’t agree with your point of view. Imho they fixed a lot of things that are broken. example: the dailies until now had quite terrible rewards. Always the same bland mystic token, karma (for what?) and a laurel.
The new system rewards you for your effort: the harder the daily – the better the reward. You also get stuff that matters for you since it’s content-related. Furthermore people don’t feel compelled to do every daily that’s available just to get the most possible achievementpoints.
To go on with the fixes: you finally have a non-mystic forge way of being rewarded with mystic clovers and other mats that contribute to your legendary crafting. You have to choose though… a chest of laurels OR a chest with ascended mats (people swimming in those won’t get more of them, also a fix in my eyes) OR a chest with Legendary-mats OR a chest with experience (something really useful to help leveling alts – another problem)
So for me an overall good change which fixes quite a lot of problems.
(and who is telling you that they don’t work on bugfixes at the same time?)
No one person is saying that, and I am not saying that they don’t have anyone working on them either. The results of bugs that I am aware of that I do not see being fixed are what is telling me that. Broken/stuck events that have been a part of the game for as long as I can remember specifically.
(edited by Lyssan.3768)
I think I am looking forward to this new method of doing the daily.
I log in every day so getting a reward for doing so is like frosting on an already yummy cake.
Now we just need to get the trait system overhauled….or reduce the amount of skill points needed. Yes, I think I would be happy if the amount of skillpoints were reduced….
Lisa toddles off to the kitchen in search of coffee.
Previously: Dailies only rewarded AP
Now: Dailies will reward a selective reward with regard to the content that you’re doing. And AP is more or less marginalised to people that didn’t want to feel forced to do every part of the game. (Thus fractal rewards probably will have something like essence of the mists or agony or stuff like that I’m guessing)
To be honest this is a good change. The achievements actual feel more like actual achievements rather than the casual stuff people have been grinding on and call themselves veterans because they repeated a bunch of casual stuff. And on top of that they give out better rewards.
I myself have 18k AP and honestly I was tired of doing every single daily just to max out Daily AP or something.
Login reward giving people stuff as they login, meh. It’s indeed quite easy loot. But I seriously doubt they would give out great loot every day. There’s enough trashy items no one really needs in the game. :P
Making a decision like this to get people logging in is actually easier to do than find certain bugs.
But telling a company they shouldn’t make changes to improve their business isn’t really all that helpful.
The idea, from me at least, was never saying they shouldn’t be trying to make money, just the methods and order those methods was used in is my concern. I agree that they are in the business to make money. If that isn’t a concern then they shouldn’t be in any business. Not even saying they shouldn’t make any changes. What I AM saying is they should change the number of bugs, as in make that number smaller, and that should be a bigger concern than adding more stuff that has a large potential to increase the number of bugs. If the amount of bugs could be guaranteed to not increase with this change, I wouldn’t have as much of an issue with it.
You know I made a joke about login monthly achievements last week………..be careful what you joke about?
It is all your fault….
XD :P
HAH! Beat you to the post! :b
Maybe the Chinese publisher influenced this decision because of poor retention in China.
KongZhong transcriptGuild Wars 2 has stabilized to a core and the loyal user base in China but at lower levels than we had originally expected prior to releasing the game.
Link to the transcript:
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/IROL/18/180513/KZ-Transcript-2014-11-25T00_30.pdf
Oh boy, yesterday I cheered about the LS not continuing on the 16th and in return this announcment… I should have known that everything good Arena.Net does will punch back even harder >_>
I mean, why the beep fix what wasn’t broken?! Up to now whenever I felt to log in, 99,99% I completed my daily while doing what I want. Grab my Laurel and Mystic Coin and sometimes a nice goodie on top. Same with the monthly- sooner or later it was done.
And now? "Do the Shatterer! (or any other world boss) " Great, forced to stick to a timer to catch an event I’m usually 100% not interested in. “Do Events in area XY”. Great, forced to play in a certain area I probably wouldn’t play in else. Those are just examples, but I think you get what I mean. Dailies nowadays are pretty unspecific and most of them can be done everywhere (dodging, interrupting, condition stuff, gathering materials, getting skill points, level ups). And I strongly think that’s a very good thing!
The new system instead forces players to do very specific things they’re probably not interested in.
Oh, and this one made me laugh:
“Completing a fractal daily achievement will get you an extra pristine fractal relic…”
Yay, so we can pile up more stacks of those useless relics!
And on top of this, the new reward system for just logging in:
“Missed a day because of work, vacation, or a work vacation? No worries, your progress is still there! The next time you log in, you’ll pick up where you left off. The system will only reset once you’ve claimed the 28th and final reward.”
So ppl that log in every day for a minute get more rewards than ppl logging in every couple of days but when they do, they play for a few hours. Epic.
(Oh, and plz spare me the “but if you play for a few hours, you’ll get more rewards by drops etc” chat. I’m on of those “if my desired drop/item contains just a glimpse of rng I’ll most definitly never get it” bad luckers, I don’t believe in GW2 rewarding players loot-wise anymore)
So everyone with a job, family and social life gets punched in the face. Thank you very much. As if it wasn’t enough that GW2 rewards are already 100% RNG instead of being based on player skills….
(edited by Nash.2681)
What is this the 4th revamp of dailies?
If they spent half the time fixing the rest of the game as they do revamping dailies the game could probably be bug free by now…
Previous revamps were just tweaks to the existing system which was kind of a place holder system. This has been discussed for a long time as a more permanent system. I don’t think they pulled much hours off the engineers to make this, it’s mostly new art assets. They’ve gotten enough feedback on old dailies to come up with this. There’s room in this system for everyone. You can play it as a completionist and finish everything, you can do the minimum for your APs, you can just log in for your laurel and not give a crap about the APs or loot, or you can ignore it entirely. Basically lowering the minimum effort for the APs, lowering the minimum effort to get your daily and monthly laurels, while offering more to do and more rewards overall. They put thought into this, and all you can do is whine that there’s still bugs in systems that are being worked on people not involved in designing APs and art assets. This community needs their heads checked.
(edited by Asgaeroth.6427)
re: You really are going to have the options to reward people to login instead of actually playing the game for rewards? – Geez, drama much? You aren’t getting rewarded for logging in instead of actually playing the game. They’re giving some little piddly thing to each person who logs in, in addition to what they get for actually playing. So take a few quarts of valium(more if necessary) and try to calm down. Or better yet, try actually reading the news article:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-daily-achievement-system/
I read it as … was written
… a new bonus system that rewards players just for logging in to the game. The first time you log in each day, you’ll receive a new bonus reward.
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