Guild Wars 2

Mirta.5029:

Hayter.8620:

Sure farming a Event by not completing it might be deemed ‘bad’, but it is in no way exploiting. the biggest problem is Anet is no where near transparent enough on game issues and mechanics.

not once have they explained DR and how it works and when it decides when your loot chances will drop, or what magic find does. they hide simple things like how agro works, things that end game users want to know, why you ask? because its a classic part of end game MMO’s.

you dont want to make a grindy game Anet? thats great, but stop punishing me because i have a few hours to burn and i just want to farm. you think cramming everyone in a single zone (southsun) is a way to satisfy farmers? are you kidding me?

DAOC from mythic understood how to incorporate farming into a game over 10 years ago, and yet you stuggle with it to the point of calling farming exploiting. Shame on you anet, learn how to code basic MMO stuff like separate loot tables. X mob has a chance to drop ABC so farm it if you need that, but DEFG only drops if you kill Y mob. TADA, instead you borked up this game so bad i dont know if it will event make it past a 1 year mark.

as for me and my fully geared 7 80’s and 2000 hours palyed time. my wallet is closed to this disaster. #cantwaitforWildStar and maybe a company that knows how to run a MMO and treat customers, just maybe.

1. There have been topics asking how mf and how DR works and there have been answers.
2. Anet never called farming “exploiting”.
3. No farming keeps the TP prices high therefore making people that aren’t no lifers able to make money. To incorporate farming into this game without harming the economy you’ll need to make all the farmable mats account bound.

Topics and reply to semi-vague questions is not a official explanation on how a simple game mechanic works.

Hence why i preempted my view on Anet with the statement, i figured people would be smart enough to see i was making it in light of the above statements calling this exploiting. guess i was wrong hoping for intelligence.

and as for your third statement, let me start off with a, HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA… ahem, there are countless MMOs with far more stable and profitable economies that are a farmers wet dream. GW2 economy is quite possibly the worst in terms of profitable ventures, i can explain why if you honestly need me too, however if you have played any other mmo in the past eh 10 years? you should be able to contrast the two quite easily with 1 high school level econ class under your belt.

Mirta.5029:

Hayter.8620:

Sure farming a Event by not completing it might be deemed ‘bad’, but it is in no way exploiting. the biggest problem is Anet is no where near transparent enough on game issues and mechanics.

not once have they explained DR and how it works and when it decides when your loot chances will drop, or what magic find does. they hide simple things like how agro works, things that end game users want to know, why you ask? because its a classic part of end game MMO’s.

you dont want to make a grindy game Anet? thats great, but stop punishing me because i have a few hours to burn and i just want to farm. you think cramming everyone in a single zone (southsun) is a way to satisfy farmers? are you kidding me?

DAOC from mythic understood how to incorporate farming into a game over 10 years ago, and yet you stuggle with it to the point of calling farming exploiting. Shame on you anet, learn how to code basic MMO stuff like separate loot tables. X mob has a chance to drop ABC so farm it if you need that, but DEFG only drops if you kill Y mob. TADA, instead you borked up this game so bad i dont know if it will event make it past a 1 year mark.

as for me and my fully geared 7 80’s and 2000 hours palyed time. my wallet is closed to this disaster. #cantwaitforWildStar and maybe a company that knows how to run a MMO and treat customers, just maybe.

1. There have been topics asking how mf and how DR works and there have been answers.
2. Anet never called farming “exploiting”.
3. No farming keeps the TP prices high therefore making people that aren’t no lifers able to make money. To incorporate farming into this game without harming the economy you’ll need to make all the farmable mats account bound.

I can see how this applies to dungeon farmers since they generate new coin to pump into the economy, but I don’t see how it would apply to open world farmers, who mainly generate materials.

Vol.5241:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Vol.5241:

I know right, shame on me and thousands others who enjoyed playing this game because we like to farm.

I think you misunderstand. The point isn’t that “farming is bad”, it’s that “farming the same content repeatedly because it’s a significantly better farming spot than X or Y or Z is bad”.

I don’t think you read my original post. Farming will always be in MMOs and no matter what you do, players will find the next best thing.

Here’s pretty much the whole chain of events that farmers have gone through (of course cof1 has been stable the whole day)

-plinx
-southern grub farm (only a few weeks)
-shelt/pen
-west grub farm
-Malchor farm
-Colonnade farm (only a few days)

farmers always go to the next best thing. After Colonnade, I know the next best place to farm.

This is why I suggest Arenanet to make the whole map reward loot to your level 100% of the time. Because then players and their guilds can choose to spread out across the world to farm the events they want.

And if one event gets too saturated with players that make it difficult to tag mobs? Then I can take my party somewhere else and still be rewarded loot

Trying to get rid of farming in an MMO is just as useless as trying to get rid of zergs in WvW

I don’t get how they want people to get certain things in game that require 250+ of certain items and not just legendary weapons other weapons as well without some sort of farming/grinding. Only reason I farmed certain areas was to help close the gap on certain material that is needed for these items. MMO’s will always have some sort of grind if you want more exotic eq. I have no idea what they are thinking about farming zones and why they are so against it.

Lambent.6375:

I can see how this applies to dungeon farmers since they generate new coin to pump into the economy, but I don’t see how it would apply to open world farmers, who mainly generate materials.

let’s assume that less hardcore players don’t run CoF infinite times for money. Let’s say they decided to do an event in Orr, got a heavy moldy bag, opened it and found T6 blood. Without open world farmers the prices would stabilize at about 60 silver. With open world farmers the price is brought down to 20 silver or bellow. It means that the small guy would get 1/3rd the amount of money he would get normally.
Now about money pumping – if inflation happens everyone gets more money (because people would buy items more expensively, so people selling them would get an influx of money too). The only difference here is that the set prices in game will become laughably cheap. (let’s say super mega inflation happened and copper is worth 1G now, people are selling stuff in the thousands on the trade post. The moment you start the game you have about enough to pay for your Tier 3 and will not consider waypoins or repair costs expensive).
Now deflation happening means that almost everyone eventually ends up forced to farm, because it’s more worth to sell T6 to a vendor than it is to the trade post, it means that while many items are cheap in game prices are very expensive, nobody wants to risk needing to repair and nobody wants to waypoint. Nothing, but running dungeons is worth doing, because the dungeons give you a straight set monetary gain that will at least pay for your waypoints.

Hayter.8620:

Hence why i preempted my view on Anet with the statement, i figured people would be smart enough to see i was making it in light of the above statements calling this exploiting. guess i was wrong hoping for intelligence.

and as for your third statement, let me start off with a, HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA… ahem, there are countless MMOs with far more stable and profitable economies that are a farmers wet dream. GW2 economy is quite possibly the worst in terms of profitable ventures, i can explain why if you honestly need me too, however if you have played any other mmo in the past eh 10 years? you should be able to contrast the two quite easily with 1 high school level econ class under your belt.

now I’m pretty sure that you’re not even worth a discussion, because you resort to belittling your opponent.

Mirta.5029:

Lambent.6375:

I can see how this applies to dungeon farmers since they generate new coin to pump into the economy, but I don’t see how it would apply to open world farmers, who mainly generate materials.

let’s assume that less hardcore players don’t run CoF infinite times for money. Let’s say they decided to do an event in Orr, got a heavy moldy bag, opened it and found T6 blood. Without open world farmers the prices would stabilize at about 60 silver. With open world farmers the price is brought down to 20 silver or bellow. It means that the small guy would get 1/3rd the amount of money he would get normally.
Now about money pumping – if inflation happens everyone gets more money (because people would buy items more expensively, so people selling them would get an influx of money too). The only difference here is that the set prices in game will become laughably cheap. (let’s say super mega inflation happened and copper is worth 1G now, people are selling stuff in the thousands on the trade post. The moment you start the game you have about enough to pay for your Tier 3 and will not consider waypoins or repair costs expensive).
Now deflation happening means that almost everyone eventually ends up forced to farm, because it’s more worth to sell T6 to a vendor than it is to the trade post, it means that while many items are cheap in game prices are very expensive, nobody wants to risk needing to repair and nobody wants to waypoint. Nothing, but running dungeons is worth doing, because the dungeons give you a straight set monetary gain that will at least pay for your waypoints.

Yeah, I see your point.

embarrassed

Actually, I misread your post, and was about to edit mine, but it was too late, you already responded with this one. :x

Mirta.5029:

Lambent.6375:

I can see how this applies to dungeon farmers since they generate new coin to pump into the economy, but I don’t see how it would apply to open world farmers, who mainly generate materials.

let’s assume that less hardcore players don’t run CoF infinite times for money. Let’s say they decided to do an event in Orr, got a heavy moldy bag, opened it and found T6 blood. Without open world farmers the prices would stabilize at about 60 silver. With open world farmers the price is brought down to 20 silver or bellow. It means that the small guy would get 1/3rd the amount of money he would get normally.
Now about money pumping – if inflation happens everyone gets more money (because people would buy items more expensively, so people selling them would get an influx of money too). The only difference here is that the set prices in game will become laughably cheap. (let’s say super mega inflation happened and copper is worth 1G now, people are selling stuff in the thousands on the trade post. The moment you start the game you have about enough to pay for your Tier 3 and will not consider waypoins or repair costs expensive).
Now deflation happening means that almost everyone eventually ends up forced to farm, because it’s more worth to sell T6 to a vendor than it is to the trade post, it means that while many items are cheap in game prices are very expensive, nobody wants to risk needing to repair and nobody wants to waypoint. Nothing, but running dungeons is worth doing, because the dungeons give you a straight set monetary gain that will at least pay for your waypoints.

You reached a little to far with this post, but anyways. While you are correct in what would happen to prices, minus your far reach, farmers benefit more than they damage. It means that the casual player(you know, they player that GW2 was aimed at?) who likes casual play and exploration can afford to craft himself and his alts a nice set of armor and what not.

You are simply thinking like a selfish TP trader…go figure.

First I want to address this casual/Hardcore BS.

In my time in EVE I explored the possibility of starting my own corp. Part of it is to set up for recruitment this included people’s dedication to the game. How many hours per day, minimum, do you want your members to be active 5 or more hours per day on average? Or is less than that acceptable.

They put an actual figure to how many hours as a minimum meant that the player was hard core or casual. They even used those terms.

I somewhat agree with this. Time spent playing is what determines the difference. Not what you spend that time in game doing. So no, farming does not mean you are a hard core player. Yes, you can be a casual player who farms.

I think it would come down to a ratio between the age of your account and time spent playing.

24/3 = 8
24/6 = 4

This is average per day and gives you the values you want to look for.

If you divide your account age by the time spent playing and you get a value of greater than 8, you are a casual gamer. If you get a value 4 to 8, you are a regular player. If you get a value of less than 4, you are a hard core player.

Note: If you get a value of 2 or less, seek help as you may have a problem. averaging 12 hours per day definitely screems addiction.

I personally see hard core or casual more along the lines of choice or preference. That is, given the amount of free time you have (that is time outside time spent on responsibilities) how much of that time is spent on gaming?

1% to 33% = Casual
34% to 66% = Average
67% to 100% = Hardcore

Not everyone’s lives are the same. Take mine. I have an 8 hour per day job. I sleep about 7 hours per night. I have shared custody of two children. When I have them, they will take up some of my free time, but they are a responsibility I have as a parent.

This places raising children under things like, making sure I eat and maitain employment, and get enough sleep.

They do not fall under things like reading a book, watching tv, or playing video games.

The point is that I’m not spending my free time looking after my kids but rather looking after my kids gives me less free time.

So that leaves every other week where I can pretty much no life it on the game outside working, sleeping, eating, and taking care of other necessities.

Compare this to someone who is a single parent and works a 12 hour shift. They will certainly have less free time. However, if they spend that entire free time they do have on the game, that to me qualifies as a hard core gamer.

As for farming itself. Well, here is the deal. You have a game that allows different styles of play but all use the same player driven economy. These different play styles will pull the economy in different directions and the problem comes when one person’s play is hindered because of another person’s play.

Think of it as people who make minimum wage living in an area where the cost of living is inflated because there are people who are pulling in wads of cash for some reason (Eg. Oil sands).

What they are doing about it is first trying to control where the farming happens (events where one group want to do the even while the other doesn’t want the even completed and so they are stepping on each other’s toes), and they are reducing the reward (reducing the pay so the cost of living can go down).

If two people put in 3 hours of play where one person ran dungeons and the other farmed the same dozen mobs in one location, I don’t think that the person farming should make 3 or 4 times what the dungeon runner makes. I also don’t think the opposite either. They should be pretty much on par. This keeps the economy even for everyone regardless on play style.

Oh and spare me the nonsense. Of course someone who can get through the same dungeon in half the time will end up with twice the profit over the same 3 hours.

Deamhan.9538:

First I want to address this casual/Hardcore BS.

In my time in EVE I explored the possibility of starting my own corp. Part of it is to set up for recruitment this included people’s dedication to the game. How many hours per day, minimum, do you want your members to be active 5 or more hours per day on average? Or is less than that acceptable.

They put an actual figure to how many hours as a minimum meant that the player was hard core or casual. They even used those terms.

I somewhat agree with this. Time spent playing is what determines the difference. Not what you spend that time in game doing. So no, farming does not mean you are a hard core player. Yes, you can be a casual player who farms.

I think it would come down to a ratio between the age of your account and time spent playing.

24/3 = 8
24/6 = 4

This is average per day and gives you the values you want to look for.

If you divide your account age by the time spent playing and you get a value of greater than 8, you are a casual gamer. If you get a value 4 to 8, you are a regular player. If you get a value of less than 4, you are a hard core player.

Note: If you get a value of 2 or less, seek help as you may have a problem. averaging 12 hours per day definitely screems addiction.

I personally see hard core or casual more along the lines of choice or preference. That is, given the amount of free time you have (that is time outside time spent on responsibilities) how much of that time is spent on gaming?

1% to 33% = Casual
34% to 66% = Average
67% to 100% = Hardcore

Not everyone’s lives are the same. Take mine. I have an 8 hour per day job. I sleep about 7 hours per night. I have shared custody of two children. When I have them, they will take up some of my free time, but they are a responsibility I have as a parent.

This places raising children under things like, making sure I eat and maitain employment, and get enough sleep.

They do not fall under things like reading a book, watching tv, or playing video games.

The point is that I’m not spending my free time looking after my kids but rather looking after my kids gives me less free time.

So that leaves every other week where I can pretty much no life it on the game outside working, sleeping, eating, and taking care of other necessities.

Compare this to someone who is a single parent and works a 12 hour shift. They will certainly have less free time. However, if they spend that entire free time they do have on the game, that to me qualifies as a hard core gamer.

As for farming itself. Well, here is the deal. You have a game that allows different styles of play but all use the same player driven economy. These different play styles will pull the economy in different directions and the problem comes when one person’s play is hindered because of another person’s play.

Think of it as people who make minimum wage living in an area where the cost of living is inflated because there are people who are pulling in wads of cash for some reason (Eg. Oil sands).

What they are doing about it is first trying to control where the farming happens (events where one group want to do the even while the other doesn’t want the even completed and so they are stepping on each other’s toes), and they are reducing the reward (reducing the pay so the cost of living can go down).

If two people put in 3 hours of play where one person ran dungeons and the other farmed the same dozen mobs in one location, I don’t think that the person farming should make 3 or 4 times what the dungeon runner makes. I also don’t think the opposite either. They should be pretty much on par. This keeps the economy even for everyone regardless on play style.

Oh and spare me the nonsense. Of course someone who can get through the same dungeon in half the time will end up with twice the profit over the same 3 hours.

Please don’t derail the thread…this has nothing to do with hardcore vs casual. Did you even read the original post?

Amun Ra.6435:

You reached a little to far with this post, but anyways. While you are correct in what would happen to prices, minus your far reach, farmers benefit more than they damage. It means that the casual player(you know, they player that GW2 was aimed at?) who likes casual play and exploration can afford to craft himself and his alts a nice set of armor and what not.

You are simply thinking like a selfish TP trader…go figure.

But that casual will never afford anything pretty and will probably feel sad that he can’t afford waypoints/ repairs. At the same time if everything costs more you can make more money selling and will have enough money to buy the ingredients to craft your armor set.

Mirta.5029:

But that casual will never afford anything pretty and will probably feel sad that he can’t afford waypoints/ repairs. At the same time if everything costs more you can make more money selling and will have enough money to buy the ingredients to craft your armor set.

In all honesty I would venture to bet that casuals play the game to have fun and they don’t even touch the mystic forge. Ever.

Mirta.5029:

Amun Ra.6435:

You reached a little to far with this post, but anyways. While you are correct in what would happen to prices, minus your far reach, farmers benefit more than they damage. It means that the casual player(you know, they player that GW2 was aimed at?) who likes casual play and exploration can afford to craft himself and his alts a nice set of armor and what not.

You are simply thinking like a selfish TP trader…go figure.

But that casual will never afford anything pretty and will probably feel sad that he can’t afford waypoints/ repairs. At the same time if everything costs more you can make more money selling and will have enough money to buy the ingredients to craft your armor set.

I really can’t tell if you are serious or not…

Amun Ra.6435:

Please don’t derail the thread…this has nothing to do with hardcore vs casual. Did you even read the original post?

Did you even read beyond the first sentence of mine?

Siigari.6587:

Mirta.5029:

But that casual will never afford anything pretty and will probably feel sad that he can’t afford waypoints/ repairs. At the same time if everything costs more you can make more money selling and will have enough money to buy the ingredients to craft your armor set.

In all honesty I would venture to bet that casuals play the game to have fun and they don’t even touch the mystic forge. Ever.

and I wasn’t talking about the mystic forge. I was talking about set game prices that won’t change versus prices set by players that do change.

Mirta.5029:

and I wasn’t talking about the mystic forge. I was talking about set game prices that won’t change versus prices set by players that do change.

What does it matter? If materials go up in price then anything that a casual player finds will be available at that same rate set by others.

Siigari.6587:

What does it matter? If materials go up in price then anything that a casual player finds will be available at that same rate set by others.

Yes. But if deflation (over farming) happens then material selling won’t make the casual player money, meaning that waypoint and repair costs at level 80 will seem expensive.

Mirta.5029:

Siigari.6587:

What does it matter? If materials go up in price then anything that a casual player finds will be available at that same rate set by others.

Yes. But if deflation (over farming) happens then material selling won’t make the casual player money, meaning that waypoint and repair costs at level 80 will seem expensive.

You are looking through an eye glass…you need to widen your view.

Deamhan.9538:

Amun Ra.6435:

Please don’t derail the thread…this has nothing to do with hardcore vs casual. Did you even read the original post?

Did you even read beyond the first sentence of mine?

Would you read a book on landscaping if you wanted to learn how to fish?

Amun Ra.6435:

You are looking through an eye glass…you need to widen your view.

please tell me what a wider view is because I can’t really see how over-farming wouldn’t put prices down to the breaking point.

Mirta.5029:

let’s assume that less hardcore players don’t run CoF infinite times for money. Let’s say they decided to do an event in Orr, got a heavy moldy bag, opened it and found T6 blood. Without open world farmers the prices would stabilize at about 60 silver. With open world farmers the price is brought down to 20 silver or bellow.

Cute. Would (maybe) be true if economy were that simple. Unfortunately, it’s not.

Do you remember that casual player you have mentioned? He’s not dealing only with supply and demand. He’s also dealing with trading post exploiters who artificially inflate prices by placing a lot of low buy and high sell orders, so those 20 silvers would have increased to 40. He has to deal with farmers who concentrate gold in their hands and thus can afford to buy more expensive items, thus increasing prices due to the minority while keeping items out of the hands of the majority; those 40 silvers increase to 60.

“Oh look, a casual who gets that item can sell it for 60 silver, like everyone else!”. True. He will get one or two of those. Meanwhile, farmers will get one hundred, and so will be able to dominate the economy.

Farmers, grinders, addicts and exploiters are bad for other players. They artificially inflate prices beyond what extra supply they add to the game. Nowhere is this more obvious than in the precursor market – one casual could maybe find one in an year and become rich, sure, but all other casuals won’t get any and won’t afford any, while farmers and TP exploiters are buying and selling multiples of them among themselves.

Erasculio.2914:

Mirta.5029:

let’s assume that less hardcore players don’t run CoF infinite times for money. Let’s say they decided to do an event in Orr, got a heavy moldy bag, opened it and found T6 blood. Without open world farmers the prices would stabilize at about 60 silver. With open world farmers the price is brought down to 20 silver or bellow.

Cute. Would (maybe) be true if economy were that simple. Unfortunately, it’s not.

Do you remember that casual player you have mentioned? He’s not dealing only with supply and demand. He’s also dealing with trading post exploiters who artificially inflate prices by placing a lot of low buy and high sell orders, so those 20 silvers would have increased to 40. He has to deal with farmers who concentrate gold in their hands and thus can afford to buy more expensive items, thus increasing prices due to the minority while keeping items out of the hands of the majority; those 40 silvers increase to 60.

“Oh look, a casual who gets that item can sell it for 60 silver, like everyone else!”. True. He will get one or two of those. Meanwhile, farmers will get one hundred, and so will be able to dominate the economy.

And why is that a bad thing? They will have more money than him, yeah, but at least the casual will be able to afford his waypoint/ repair costs. With unlimited farming the item price goes low and stays low (see the prices for the not so rare rares) preventing the person not farming from making any money.

Vayne.8563:

Huck.1405:

I’m pretty sure that Anet is attempting to discourage farming because they want us to buy our gold with gems. All these nerfs of farming areas has convinced me of that.

All that’s going to do is make players look elsewhere for another MMO that dos’nt force them to use real $$$$ to get what one can obtain by farming in any other MMO.

So why then did they discourage farming in Guild Wars 1, which also had DR? There were no gems to buy there.

DR never hit me once in gw1

Mirta.5029:

And why is that a bad thing? They will have more money than him, yeah, but at least the casual will be able to afford his waypoint/ repair costs.

And nothing else. Meanwhile, farmers swin in Legendaries. Without those people, all prices would be flatter so more people would afford all items in the game, creating a more equal market.

Vol.5241:

Farming will always be in MMOs and no matter what you do, players will find the next best thing.

I don’t disagree with this statement, but I do not agree with “the next best thing” mentality. I read your OP back when you posted it, so maybe I don’t remember it perfectly, but I definitely understand the point you’re making now. Ideally, and even in ANet’s eyes based on what they have said they want to achieve, anything you choose to do should be equally rewarding balanced against the difficulty of what you’re doing. The challenge here is that you can’t just make players get L80 loot only because they’re L80, because then where do the lower level items come from when more players have leveled up? They’re tuning down the farmability of specific one-events in Orr and other places in order to make other events in Orr more appealing.

This is exactly why they added another L80 zone, and why there’s an event going on with +200% MF granted freely to players. They’re trying to encourage players to branch out, just like you want. It’s pretty obvious to me that they’re not trying to get rid of farming, they’re trying to get rid of farming one spot ad infinitum. You say that’s impossible, but well, they’re certainly trying.

The thing that really bothers me about this is how CoF has survived for so long. It has had more profound an impact on the economy than any of the Orr farming spots. I can only surmise that it is “harder” to change CoF, and that the people who are capable of doing it are locked up in the monthly releases.

Erasculio.2914:

Mirta.5029:

And why is that a bad thing? They will have more money than him, yeah, but at least the casual will be able to afford his waypoint/ repair costs.

And nothing else. Meanwhile, farmers swin in Legendaries. Without those people, all prices would be flatter so more people would afford all items in the game, creating a more equal market.

well farmers that would over-farm mats would make it so that no-one could afford anything, lol. And that’s my argument.
When it comes to CoF money farming apparently even with a lot of alts now you will hit DR after doing all paths across 3 characters in less than 1h 30 min. So that’s getting slowed down.
If nothing was farmable – I agree, prices would be more fair, however is that even possible? And even then, do you really think that Legendary sellers would change their price when they needed to put in so much work to make it in the first place?

Mirta.5029:

Erasculio.2914:

Mirta.5029:

And why is that a bad thing? They will have more money than him, yeah, but at least the casual will be able to afford his waypoint/ repair costs.

And nothing else. Meanwhile, farmers swin in Legendaries. Without those people, all prices would be flatter so more people would afford all items in the game, creating a more equal market.

well farmers that would over-farm mats would make it so that no-one could afford anything, lol. And that’s my argument.
When it comes to CoF money farming apparently even with a lot of alts now you will hit DR after doing all paths across 3 characters in less than 1h 30 min. So that’s getting slowed down.
If nothing was farmable – I agree, prices would be more fair, however is that even possible? And even then, do you really think that Legendary sellers would change their price when they needed to put in so much work to make it in the first place?

So much work? What work? Some exploted bugs and got away, some got extremely lucky, most of them flip TP. Real work yea…..

Amun Ra.6435:

Deamhan.9538:

Amun Ra.6435:

Please don’t derail the thread…this has nothing to do with hardcore vs casual. Did you even read the original post?

Did you even read beyond the first sentence of mine?

Would you read a book on landscaping if you wanted to learn how to fish?

Please don’t derail the thread.

Mirta.5029:

Erasculio.2914:

Mirta.5029:

And why is that a bad thing? They will have more money than him, yeah, but at least the casual will be able to afford his waypoint/ repair costs.

And nothing else. Meanwhile, farmers swin in Legendaries. Without those people, all prices would be flatter so more people would afford all items in the game, creating a more equal market.

well farmers that would over-farm mats would make it so that no-one could afford anything, lol. And that’s my argument.
When it comes to CoF money farming apparently even with a lot of alts now you will hit DR after doing all paths across 3 characters in less than 1h 30 min. So that’s getting slowed down.
If nothing was farmable – I agree, prices would be more fair, however is that even possible? And even then, do you really think that Legendary sellers would change their price when they needed to put in so much work to make it in the first place?

Where is your logic? Stop farming…ok, prices go up and sell stuff for more. Keep farming…prices go down and sell for less. Either way your money is worth the same.

60s and 20s are both worth the same. But again, this is disregarding demand.

It’s seems that every time you post something you never consider demand…at all.

Deamhan.9538:

Amun Ra.6435:

Deamhan.9538:

Amun Ra.6435:

Please don’t derail the thread…this has nothing to do with hardcore vs casual. Did you even read the original post?

Did you even read beyond the first sentence of mine?

Would you read a book on landscaping if you wanted to learn how to fish?

Please don’t derail the thread.

Didn’t…answered your question….

This is my last response to you as this topic is important to me and others.

Sovta.4719:

So much work? What work? Some exploted bugs and got away, some got extremely lucky, most of them flip TP. Real work yea…..

so full map explore
500 badges of honor (WvW)
200 skill points
525 000 karma
20G for recipees needed to make the extra gifts
100G worth of ice runestones (can’t be bought of TP)
Are worth nothing?
I have full world explore myself, but even that takes a lot of time. Even if you got lucky with most of things you would still want a lot of money for something that takes so much work. Especially when you’re limited to making 2 per character (you only get 2 gifts of exploration).

Tifa Lockheart Ex.9614:

Mirta.5029 aka the forum troll. don’t feed it period

Yes, when you can’t argue with someone call them a troll -_-

Amun Ra.6435:

Where is your logic? Stop farming…ok, prices go up and sell stuff for more. Keep farming…prices go down and sell for less. Either way your money is worth the same.

60s and 20s are both worth the same. But again, this is disregarding demand.

It’s seems that every time you post something you never consider demand…at all.

except that in game prices like waypoints, repair costs and tiered items don’t change in price. If T6 falls to 2 silver it won’t be worth the same because you couldn’t pay your waypoint costs.

EXireXs.3602:

Mirta.5029:

EXireXs.3602:

oh, but wouldnt it be great if its like that? nowdays, you just gotta be active finding the best way to farm gold bro. why choose the hard way when you can do the easy way? you like being tortured?

because easy is boring. Why would I want to play the game if it would bore me? Also you do realize that the economy would adapt, prices would fall and you would get the same amount of money for doing less than you are doing right now if these kind of spots were never there? I remember T6 blood being 50 silver. Now it’s barely at 20 and was steadily falling. Which means that you need to get 2X the amount of T6 blood to make the same profit. That makes things with fixed prices seem expensive and really screws the economy around.

Wonder why people still want to farm there if it’s boring….
well you see, you farm lyssa for the rares, and globs right?
sell those at tp and you make golds, then how do you buy t6 mats if theres none at tp?
you shud be thankful since we’re fullfilling everyone’s demand of t6 mats.
Oh price is falling? there’s this term called depriciation in real life and it also works in in-game economy. deal with it.

I get them by killing kitten I come across and putting them in my collection….

On that know, I wouldn’t say someone being a “casual” automatically excludes them from being a farmer. It’s not like someone being a farmer automatically means they spend hours doing that activity.

Farming is not really time consuming at all, and someone can do a successful open world run in 30min-1hr, or even less (20min) Farmers themselves don’t even farm that long due to DR, and there not being very many t6 mat farm spots for them to jump to.

Amun Ra.6435:

Deamhan.9538:

Amun Ra.6435:

Deamhan.9538:

Amun Ra.6435:

Please don’t derail the thread…this has nothing to do with hardcore vs casual. Did you even read the original post?

Did you even read beyond the first sentence of mine?

Would you read a book on landscaping if you wanted to learn how to fish?

Please don’t derail the thread.

Didn’t…answered your question….

This is my last response to you as this topic is important to me and others.

Quit derailing the thread, bro.

I’m all for farmers farming. I spent hours in daoc farming mob camps in the frontier for drops I could salvage, and looted DDO chests down to empty for particular items. But I’m not for holding up events for farming purposes.

If Anet would put aside some areas and arrange mob spawns/pathing/difficulty/fun so farmers can do what they need to do then everyone will be happy. Mostly everyone. Many people anyway.

Vol…

This game is not for you.
(or me.)

Move on.

I agree Vol again. Someone has mentioned how they handled the rewards system in this game and it’s both lopsided when it comes to RNG loot (it’s totally not R that’s for sure) and how they handle rewards the completion of achievements.

They don’t even reward you for the harder content, when you run a dungeon or you fight an open world boss it should never be RNG for the giant chest that drops, and the event creatures/bosses should never ever be affected by things like DR ever.

Champions drop crap most of the time because the loot threshhold is too low.

The chests they are guarding drop nothing but garbage to be vendored.

Gossamer, powerful blood, lodestones are more rare in this game then water is in a middle-eastern country.

Rewards are just not there for time spent, it needs to be addressed. If they shifted the rewards from an all RNG system to a currency system like most games for things like T6 mats and put a daily cap on them so they couldn’t be bought out en masse like in other games, there wouldn’t be so much of a problem. I hate to bring up the elephant in the room but when I was playing that game one could go to certain vendors and buy 1 maybe 2 of the rarest components in crafting and make the items we needed. Sometimes that took a while like a week but it was much better then trying to get enough gold on the pennies we get from mobs to pay for items we need from the highly manipulated TP.

Also they could shift the rewards to achievements in this title and be praised for it because then people would have reason to return to the more deserted areas of the game because they’d get rewarded for their time there for exploring again. It would be what this game needs. I understand they don’t like farmers that’s not what this is about it’s about getting rewards from doing SOMETHING in the game, anything. Right now it’s all RNG and it’s not working properly for everyone.

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, when I played Guild Wars 1, the loot was, for the most part, equally unrewarding. I mean you’d do a dungeon and you’d get these yellow drops (which we called gold drops) and they’d be worthless. You could get some coin by selling them as unidentified golds for people who were working on their wisdom title, but basically, they were worthless.

It would get to the point after a while where nothing that dropped really meant anything unless it was a black or white dye….or an ecto if you were in the underworld. Or a lock pick.

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t really a loot based game, and neither is Guild Wars 2.

Yeah, the greens in GW1 was the main rare in that game.. Golds were mainly for the treasure finding achievement and there were a few that had the same base stats as some greens. I remember getting a green drop from a Nightfall area that was nothing but crap. It wasn’t even worth keeping.

Eladriel.7295:

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, when I played Guild Wars 1, the loot was, for the most part, equally unrewarding. I mean you’d do a dungeon and you’d get these yellow drops (which we called gold drops) and they’d be worthless. You could get some coin by selling them as unidentified golds for people who were working on their wisdom title, but basically, they were worthless.

It would get to the point after a while where nothing that dropped really meant anything unless it was a black or white dye….or an ecto if you were in the underworld. Or a lock pick.

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t really a loot based game, and neither is Guild Wars 2.

Yeah, the greens in GW1 was the main rare in that game.. Golds were mainly for the treasure finding achievement and there were a few that had the same base stats as some greens. I remember getting a green drop from a Nightfall area that was nothing but crap. It wasn’t even worth keeping.

Even end game greens for completing the scenarios were pretty much meh. But you know, I didn’t play the game for the rewards. If I did, there’s no way I could have played for five years. And I play Guild Wars 2 much the same as I did Guild Wars 1.

The cool thing about the green items in GW, for me, was collecting them. I got a lot of mileage out of ‘going for the green’. I never sold them and didn’t always use them, and sometimes gave them away, but I had a lot of fun getting them.

Tachenon.5270:

The cool thing about the green items in GW, for me, was collecting them. I got a lot of mileage out of ‘going for the green’. I never sold them and didn’t always use them, and sometimes gave them away, but I had a lot of fun getting them.

You could also collect the named exotics in Guild Wars 2 the same way. There are a bunch of them. I got one this week.

The only difference is, I don’t have to stand in one place and kill one boss over and over to try to get his green. I can go anywhere and that exotic might drop.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

The cool thing about the green items in GW, for me, was collecting them. I got a lot of mileage out of ‘going for the green’. I never sold them and didn’t always use them, and sometimes gave them away, but I had a lot of fun getting them.

You could also collect the named exotics in Guild Wars 2 the same way. There are a bunch of them. I got one this week.

The only difference is, I don’t have to stand in one place and kill one boss over and over to try to get his green. I can go anywhere and that exotic might drop.

Yeah, some random drop somewhere – meh. That’s not fun for me. Especially considering my luck with drops. The nearest thing I know of to getting a green item from a boss in GW2 would be Final Rest dropping from the Shadow Behemoth. I’ve long since given up on that dropping for me, though, and I won’t buy it off the trading post. So… meh.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

The cool thing about the green items in GW, for me, was collecting them. I got a lot of mileage out of ‘going for the green’. I never sold them and didn’t always use them, and sometimes gave them away, but I had a lot of fun getting them.

You could also collect the named exotics in Guild Wars 2 the same way. There are a bunch of them. I got one this week.

The only difference is, I don’t have to stand in one place and kill one boss over and over to try to get his green. I can go anywhere and that exotic might drop.

Yeah, some random drop somewhere – meh. That’s not fun for me. Especially considering my luck with drops. The nearest thing I know of to getting a green item from a boss in GW2 would be Final Rest dropping from the Shadow Behemoth. I’ve long since given up on that dropping for me, though, and I won’t buy it off the trading post. So… meh.

So it takes longer to get the stuff, which makes it more valuable to me. Soloing a boss so I get a green and that’s easy to get that everyone has? Meh. I’d rather have something like Final Rest than that. I don’t mind that it takes longer to get stuff, as long as I’m getting it wherever I’m playing. I much prefer that.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

The cool thing about the green items in GW, for me, was collecting them. I got a lot of mileage out of ‘going for the green’. I never sold them and didn’t always use them, and sometimes gave them away, but I had a lot of fun getting them.

You could also collect the named exotics in Guild Wars 2 the same way. There are a bunch of them. I got one this week.

The only difference is, I don’t have to stand in one place and kill one boss over and over to try to get his green. I can go anywhere and that exotic might drop.

Yeah, some random drop somewhere – meh. That’s not fun for me. Especially considering my luck with drops. The nearest thing I know of to getting a green item from a boss in GW2 would be Final Rest dropping from the Shadow Behemoth. I’ve long since given up on that dropping for me, though, and I won’t buy it off the trading post. So… meh.

So it takes longer to get the stuff, which makes it more valuable to me. Soloing a boss so I get a green and that’s easy to get that everyone has? Meh. I’d rather have something like Final Rest than that. I don’t mind that it takes longer to get stuff, as long as I’m getting it wherever I’m playing. I much prefer that.

Again, Please dont compare yourself and other people. If you prefer getting valuables in more difficult, time-taking way, since you say that it become more valuable to you, then go on. some of us here consider it stupid as sometimes, even if the price of the exotic that we get is 1-2 gold (which is not cheap), we cant really sell it if the stat is bad. Salvage? no guarantee that you will get ectos that will cover the price of the exo. Please please pleaseeee…. Dont tell us what to do. we’re not baby anymore. we can decide what we want to do ourself.

EXireXs.3602:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

The cool thing about the green items in GW, for me, was collecting them. I got a lot of mileage out of ‘going for the green’. I never sold them and didn’t always use them, and sometimes gave them away, but I had a lot of fun getting them.

You could also collect the named exotics in Guild Wars 2 the same way. There are a bunch of them. I got one this week.

The only difference is, I don’t have to stand in one place and kill one boss over and over to try to get his green. I can go anywhere and that exotic might drop.

Yeah, some random drop somewhere – meh. That’s not fun for me. Especially considering my luck with drops. The nearest thing I know of to getting a green item from a boss in GW2 would be Final Rest dropping from the Shadow Behemoth. I’ve long since given up on that dropping for me, though, and I won’t buy it off the trading post. So… meh.

So it takes longer to get the stuff, which makes it more valuable to me. Soloing a boss so I get a green and that’s easy to get that everyone has? Meh. I’d rather have something like Final Rest than that. I don’t mind that it takes longer to get stuff, as long as I’m getting it wherever I’m playing. I much prefer that.

Again, Please dont compare yourself and other people. If you prefer getting valuables in more difficult, time-taking way, since you say that it become more valuable to you, then go on. some of us here consider it stupid as sometimes, even if the price of the exotic is 1-2 gold (which is not cheap), we cant really sell it if the stat is bad. Salvage? no guarantee that you will get ectos that will cover the price of the exo. Please please pleaseeee…. Dont tell us what to do. we’re not baby anymore. we can decide what we want to do ourself.

I’ll compare myself to anyone I like, thanks. Try not to tell me what to do. It won’t change what I do.

If everyone got valuables easier, the valuables would be worthless (reference 90% of the greens in Guild Wars 1). Most of them you just merched, because they were worthless. If you prefer worthless greens to valuable exotics (and even many of them are no longer worth much), then that’s your own issue.

I’m not sure why people don’t understand that once a rare drop ceases to be rare, it’s not worth as much and as a result, you don’t get as much for it.

Vayne.8563:

EXireXs.3602:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

The cool thing about the green items in GW, for me, was collecting them. I got a lot of mileage out of ‘going for the green’. I never sold them and didn’t always use them, and sometimes gave them away, but I had a lot of fun getting them.

You could also collect the named exotics in Guild Wars 2 the same way. There are a bunch of them. I got one this week.

The only difference is, I don’t have to stand in one place and kill one boss over and over to try to get his green. I can go anywhere and that exotic might drop.

Yeah, some random drop somewhere – meh. That’s not fun for me. Especially considering my luck with drops. The nearest thing I know of to getting a green item from a boss in GW2 would be Final Rest dropping from the Shadow Behemoth. I’ve long since given up on that dropping for me, though, and I won’t buy it off the trading post. So… meh.

So it takes longer to get the stuff, which makes it more valuable to me. Soloing a boss so I get a green and that’s easy to get that everyone has? Meh. I’d rather have something like Final Rest than that. I don’t mind that it takes longer to get stuff, as long as I’m getting it wherever I’m playing. I much prefer that.

Again, Please dont compare yourself and other people. If you prefer getting valuables in more difficult, time-taking way, since you say that it become more valuable to you, then go on. some of us here consider it stupid as sometimes, even if the price of the exotic is 1-2 gold (which is not cheap), we cant really sell it if the stat is bad. Salvage? no guarantee that you will get ectos that will cover the price of the exo. Please please pleaseeee…. Dont tell us what to do. we’re not baby anymore. we can decide what we want to do ourself.

I’ll compare myself to anyone I like, thanks. Try not to tell me what to do. It won’t change what I do.

If everyone got valuables easier, the valuables would be worthless (reference 90% of the greens in Guild Wars 1). Most of them you just merched, because they were worthless. If you prefer worthless greens to valuable exotics (and even many of them are no longer worth much), then that’s your own issue.

I’m not sure why people don’t understand that once a rare drop ceases to be rare, it’s not worth as much and as a result, you don’t get as much for it.

yeah we don’t understand. Problems?
and sorry. it’s just a suggestion.

EXireXs.3602:

Vayne.8563:

EXireXs.3602:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

The cool thing about the green items in GW, for me, was collecting them. I got a lot of mileage out of ‘going for the green’. I never sold them and didn’t always use them, and sometimes gave them away, but I had a lot of fun getting them.

You could also collect the named exotics in Guild Wars 2 the same way. There are a bunch of them. I got one this week.

The only difference is, I don’t have to stand in one place and kill one boss over and over to try to get his green. I can go anywhere and that exotic might drop.

Yeah, some random drop somewhere – meh. That’s not fun for me. Especially considering my luck with drops. The nearest thing I know of to getting a green item from a boss in GW2 would be Final Rest dropping from the Shadow Behemoth. I’ve long since given up on that dropping for me, though, and I won’t buy it off the trading post. So… meh.

So it takes longer to get the stuff, which makes it more valuable to me. Soloing a boss so I get a green and that’s easy to get that everyone has? Meh. I’d rather have something like Final Rest than that. I don’t mind that it takes longer to get stuff, as long as I’m getting it wherever I’m playing. I much prefer that.

Again, Please dont compare yourself and other people. If you prefer getting valuables in more difficult, time-taking way, since you say that it become more valuable to you, then go on. some of us here consider it stupid as sometimes, even if the price of the exotic is 1-2 gold (which is not cheap), we cant really sell it if the stat is bad. Salvage? no guarantee that you will get ectos that will cover the price of the exo. Please please pleaseeee…. Dont tell us what to do. we’re not baby anymore. we can decide what we want to do ourself.

I’ll compare myself to anyone I like, thanks. Try not to tell me what to do. It won’t change what I do.

If everyone got valuables easier, the valuables would be worthless (reference 90% of the greens in Guild Wars 1). Most of them you just merched, because they were worthless. If you prefer worthless greens to valuable exotics (and even many of them are no longer worth much), then that’s your own issue.

I’m not sure why people don’t understand that once a rare drop ceases to be rare, it’s not worth as much and as a result, you don’t get as much for it.

yeah we don’t understand. Problems?

Nope, I have no problems with you not understanding. I’m perfectly okay with it.

I’m sure Anet will continue to nerf any major farm site for 1 major reason

- The more gold we make, the more gold we have to convert to gems. Which means we are not spending our cash for gems. Financially it does not make sense to have these huge gold farms in game.

As a casual player who loves this game, I refuse to sit on the BLTP and flip. I want to kill enemies and make some gold, but this game has made it so hard. Over powered Champs, events delayed even longer than before.

I had a friend start playing last month, and he has a hard time investing time in the game because he doesn’t see any personal rewards. This game is so hard to earn gold early on unless you luck out with a drop (dye or something early on).

Anet really needs to find a better balance for long term sustainability.

Eladriel.7295:

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, when I played Guild Wars 1, the loot was, for the most part, equally unrewarding. I mean you’d do a dungeon and you’d get these yellow drops (which we called gold drops) and they’d be worthless. You could get some coin by selling them as unidentified golds for people who were working on their wisdom title, but basically, they were worthless.

It would get to the point after a while where nothing that dropped really meant anything unless it was a black or white dye….or an ecto if you were in the underworld. Or a lock pick.

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t really a loot based game, and neither is Guild Wars 2.

Yeah, the greens in GW1 was the main rare in that game.. Golds were mainly for the treasure finding achievement and there were a few that had the same base stats as some greens. I remember getting a green drop from a Nightfall area that was nothing but crap. It wasn’t even worth keeping.

There was a point in GW1 when Green items sold well. However, that changed when Nightfall came out. Items were valued for their skin, and for three stats. When Nightfall came out, those three stats were all replaceable, except you could not alter them on a green item. So, the rare gold items became more valuable by an order of magnitude. Not to mention they were also more rare than the greens.

Hard Content
Hard Jump Puzzles
Progression Dungeons
Better looking rewards and armors.

SURPRISE!

Skelk farming got nerfed.

The 9g/h farm!

The day i got 2 kasmeer it was more than 9g/h it was good and fast but even I must admid (after using it for 1.5weeks) that it called for a nerf eventually.
But everything has a good side. We can rule that out that the 200% mf did all the work there in that 9g/h, and that spot was there since southsun came out. That means there are several spots like that, who knows where we just need to find them and better hide it before the nerf hits it :P