Guild Wars 2

LordByron.8369:

People asks for anything.

Few people complained of vertical progression and they clearly bought the wrong game…..

Anet didn t listen that monirity, they just found the easiets way to keep people playing without introducing real content.

Ascended is the worst type of vertical progression

It doesn t have skins mostly (everyone trasmute them) and are just numbers, since them they also buffed mobs and bosses so the trendmill could work.

A full ascended character plays exactòy like a full exotic used to play.

Its a full exotic character that got obsolete, instead.
An old trick that is easily explained by the word treadmill….if you run you stand still, if you stop you fall behind.

There is no content in this game that that 5% difference is going to make or break a player, especially for armor. Ascended was simply introduced to placate the hardcore. Over time, I’ll get the 3 trinkets you can get from the laurel vendor for fairly cheap and eventually a legendary weapon, which has ascended stats. This is all I plan to pursue for ascended, unless I get lucky drops, of course.

And when the level cap is increased, will we all start again in the new level cap greens?

When the pre-launch marketing and hype campaign finished, the Manifesto’s job was done.

Some say it lives in a locked cabinet, ready for the day an expansion is announced…

mesme.5028:

And when the level cap is increased, will we all start again in the new level cap greens?

If they increase the level cap, I will leave the game permanently.

What happened to the manifesto?

It is alive and well…sitting on a toilet paper roll somewhere.

Leamas.5803:

mesme.5028:

And when the level cap is increased, will we all start again in the new level cap greens?

If they increase the level cap, I will leave the game permanently.

They’ve already said that they’re going to increase the cap at some point.

VOLKON.1290:

morrolan.9608:

VOLKON.1290:

The reason ascended was introduced makes perfect sense in my opinion. They simply didn’t expect exotics to become so plentiful and easy to get.

This is incorrect and has been proven to be so by quotes in this thread.

No it isn’t.

You couldn’t possibly be more wrong. Collin Johanson himself said, and I quote, “everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.”

darkace.8925:

VOLKON.1290:

morrolan.9608:

VOLKON.1290:

The reason ascended was introduced makes perfect sense in my opinion. They simply didn’t expect exotics to become so plentiful and easy to get.

This is incorrect and has been proven to be so by quotes in this thread.

No it isn’t.

You couldn’t possibly be more wrong. Collin Johanson himself said, and I quote, “everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.”

Actually you’re wrong. All level 80 characters do and did have access to the best statistical loot in the game. You don’t reach level 80 then have to go through a series of weekly dungeon and raid runs to eventually get access to the best statistical loot… it’s all available as soon as you hit 80.

In other MMOs (like WoW for example) you’d have to level up to 80 (at the time for me), then you’ve only just begun the grind of trying to gain access to the best statistical loot. You’d run dungeons to get gear for heroic dungeons and raids, only to get gear for the next raid, ad infinitum.

The best statistical loot in the game is available as soon as you hit level 80. Before you could get it overnight. Now it takes a little longer if you’re driven to getting ascended.

VOLKON.1290:

darkace.8925:

VOLKON.1290:

morrolan.9608:

VOLKON.1290:

The reason ascended was introduced makes perfect sense in my opinion. They simply didn’t expect exotics to become so plentiful and easy to get.

This is incorrect and has been proven to be so by quotes in this thread.

No it isn’t.

You couldn’t possibly be more wrong. Collin Johanson himself said, and I quote, “everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.”

Actually you’re wrong. All level 80 characters do and did have access to the best statistical loot in the game. You don’t reach level 80 then have to go through a series of weekly dungeon and raid runs to eventually get access to the best statistical loot… it’s all available as soon as you hit 80.

In other MMOs (like WoW for example) you’d have to level up to 80 (at the time for me), then you’ve only just begun the grind of trying to gain access to the best statistical loot. You’d run dungeons to get gear for heroic dungeons and raids, only to get gear for the next raid, ad infinitum.

The best statistical loot in the game is available as soon as you hit level 80. Before you could get it overnight. Now it takes a little longer if you’re driven to getting ascended.

Volkon. There is a big difference between “should have the best statistical loot” and “should have ACCESS to the best statistical loot”.

Big big difference.

VOLKON.1290:

darkace.8925:

VOLKON.1290:

morrolan.9608:

VOLKON.1290:

The reason ascended was introduced makes perfect sense in my opinion. They simply didn’t expect exotics to become so plentiful and easy to get.

This is incorrect and has been proven to be so by quotes in this thread.

No it isn’t.

You couldn’t possibly be more wrong. Collin Johanson himself said, and I quote, “everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.”

Actually you’re wrong. All level 80 characters do and did have access to the best statistical loot in the game. You don’t reach level 80 then have to go through a series of weekly dungeon and raid runs to eventually get access to the best statistical loot… it’s all available as soon as you hit 80.

In other MMOs (like WoW for example) you’d have to level up to 80 (at the time for me), then you’ve only just begun the grind of trying to gain access to the best statistical loot. You’d run dungeons to get gear for heroic dungeons and raids, only to get gear for the next raid, ad infinitum.

The best statistical loot in the game is available as soon as you hit level 80. Before you could get it overnight. Now it takes a little longer if you’re driven to getting ascended.

They do have a point that, and I do agree, the addition of ascended as it currently stands goes against Colin’s original statement (that we should have BiS by lvl 80). However, as time progresses and people build the crafting, it will get to the point where people will be able to craft a set of ascended for a character when it hits 80. We’re just not at that point yet. Allowing people to acquire some of the account bound materials prior to hitting 80 will help this.

Additionally, should they listen to our requests and implement additional ways of acquisition, that would also help to bring it into line with the other armors, and make it more readily obtainable by lvl 80, imo. We just aren’t there yet…

VOLKON.1290:

darkace.8925:

VOLKON.1290:

morrolan.9608:

VOLKON.1290:

The reason ascended was introduced makes perfect sense in my opinion. They simply didn’t expect exotics to become so plentiful and easy to get.

This is incorrect and has been proven to be so by quotes in this thread.

No it isn’t.

You couldn’t possibly be more wrong. Collin Johanson himself said, and I quote, “everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.”

Actually you’re wrong. All level 80 characters do and did have access to the best statistical loot in the game. You don’t reach level 80 then have to go through a series of weekly dungeon and raid runs to eventually get access to the best statistical loot… it’s all available as soon as you hit 80.

In other MMOs (like WoW for example) you’d have to level up to 80 (at the time for me), then you’ve only just begun the grind of trying to gain access to the best statistical loot. You’d run dungeons to get gear for heroic dungeons and raids, only to get gear for the next raid, ad infinitum.

The best statistical loot in the game is available as soon as you hit level 80. Before you could get it overnight. Now it takes a little longer if you’re driven to getting ascended.

herein lies the issue. he didn’t say that they should have access to it by the time they hit 80, he said they should have it by the time they hit 80. two very different meanings. to use an analogy, we have the internet. we can order almost anything over the internet. so if i wanted to buy a giant pink fluffy bunny costume, i could. i would have access to a giant pink fluffy bunny costume, and so do you. but i don’t have a giant pink fluffy bunny costume, and i’m going to assume you don’t either. to go a step further, if you go to any high school or college on the planet, you have access to drugs. that certainly doesn’t mean that every high school or college student is in possession of drugs.

it isn’t a matter of availability. it’s a matter of whether it’s in their possession or not. according to what colin said, every level 80 should have the best statisical loot in the game in their possession. that’s not how things currently are.

now, as was pointed out, they stated their intention, and they achieved it. for them to double back and say they didn’t expect it happen is disingenuous at best.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

They do have a point that, and I do agree, the addition of ascended as it currently stands goes against Colin’s original statement (that we should have BiS by lvl 80). However, as time progresses and people build the crafting, it will get to the point where people will be able to craft a set of ascended for a character when it hits 80. We’re just not at that point yet. Allowing people to acquire some of the account bound materials prior to hitting 80 will help this.

Additionally, should they listen to our requests and implement additional ways of acquisition, that would also help to bring it into line with the other armors, and make it more readily obtainable by lvl 80, imo. We just aren’t there yet…

Can’t really argue with that. Well, I could, but it would look silly. I believe at the time of the statement the intent was indeed for characters to hit 80 and have the best (i.e. exotics) available to them, and through crafting, the TP, etc. that was certainly the case. At the time what he was was most definitely true, however the community wanted more so they created ascended without violating the principles of the manifesto (the statement is outside the manifesto, as we all know).

I think it’s also clear Colin misspoke a little due to the fact that you don’t really see level 80 drops until you hit level 80 as opposed to by level 80, so taking one statement made in an interview on the fly as gospel is an error in my opinion. At least I didn’t see an exotic 80 drop until I hit 80… not sure on others.

Skan.5301:

Leamas.5803:

mesme.5028:

And when the level cap is increased, will we all start again in the new level cap greens?

If they increase the level cap, I will leave the game permanently.

They’ve already said that they’re going to increase the cap at some point.

And that’s fine. I’ll play until that point and move to something else. The only way I’ll stay is if they automatically bump 80s and 80 gear up to the new level cap (Which I can’t see happening). I’ve already leveled my 80(s) and have no interest in grinding out 20 more levels and new gear. This would be a game ender for me, and I know I’m by no means alone in this opinion.

Leamas.5803:

Skan.5301:

Leamas.5803:

mesme.5028:

And when the level cap is increased, will we all start again in the new level cap greens?

If they increase the level cap, I will leave the game permanently.

They’ve already said that they’re going to increase the cap at some point.

And that’s fine. I’ll play until that point and move to something else. The only way I’ll stay is if they automatically bump 80s and 80 gear up to the new level cap (Which I can’t see happening). I’ve already leveled my 80(s) and have no interest in grinding out 20 more levels and new gear. This would be a game ender for me, and I know I’m by no means alone in this opinion.

I’d be surprised if they did now… ascended gear and the time and effort that goes into it don’t seem like the type of gear you throw away as a new tier comes along (or a level bump). They may have had been considering that as an option pre-ascended, but the way ascended is designed if there were ever a level cap increase unless they upgraded all ascended gear you’d never see it crafted again.

There’s one thing GW2 doesn’t and probably never will need is a level cap increase. It simply doesn’t make sense to do so.

Ooh… giant pink fluffy bunny costume. That gave me such a good chuckle.

VOLKON.1290:

Leamas.5803:

Skan.5301:

Leamas.5803:

mesme.5028:

And when the level cap is increased, will we all start again in the new level cap greens?

If they increase the level cap, I will leave the game permanently.

They’ve already said that they’re going to increase the cap at some point.

And that’s fine. I’ll play until that point and move to something else. The only way I’ll stay is if they automatically bump 80s and 80 gear up to the new level cap (Which I can’t see happening). I’ve already leveled my 80(s) and have no interest in grinding out 20 more levels and new gear. This would be a game ender for me, and I know I’m by no means alone in this opinion.

I’d be surprised if they did now… ascended gear and the time and effort that goes into it don’t seem like the type of gear you throw away as a new tier comes along (or a level bump). They may have had been considering that as an option pre-ascended, but the way ascended is designed if there were ever a level cap increase unless they upgraded all ascended gear you’d never see it crafted again.

There’s one thing GW2 doesn’t and probably never will need is a level cap increase. It simply doesn’t make sense to do so.

During the CDI for vertical progression I asked many and many times for that question: will level cap increase?

Never got an answer.

I said each time that without that information, all the CDI on vertical progression was void and null. It’s an essential information to talk about progression and they never ever dared to answer.

Real great ideas in the vertical progression thread… but they are all void if they increase the level cap (which has been said elsewhere that they will do).

It is what baffles me about the CDI. It is supposed to be a conversation but they answered none of the questions players made. A conversation is supposed to be both ways.

I suppose that they had strict instructions not to talk about was going to be done, but anyways. Talking about vertical progression without that key information is useless.

VOLKON.1290:

There’s one thing GW2 doesn’t and probably never will need is a level cap increase. It simply doesn’t make sense to do so.

i think that soon there’ll be bad news for you
but for now, it’s just an opinion.

BeoErgon.9107:

During the CDI for vertical progression I asked many and many times for that question: will level cap increase?
Never got an answer.
I said each time that without that information, all the CDI on vertical progression was void and null. It’s an essential information to talk about progression and they never ever dared to answer.
Real great ideas in the vertical progression thread… but they are all void if they increase the level cap (which has been said elsewhere that they will do).
It is what baffles me about the CDI. It is supposed to be a conversation but they answered none of the questions players made. A conversation is supposed to be both ways.
I suppose that they had strict instructions not to talk about was going to be done, but anyways. Talking about vertical progression without that key information is useless.

of course they are forced not to talk about the future of the game…
it could be the end of gw2
also, it would be so much hype for nothing, as we already learnt from the manifesto “case report”, so anything they could state would not be so trustworthy

about ascended. yes, it’s unlikely you’ll throw them away very soon.
but I think that it won’t be the last tier. and of course not the last and definitive BiS.
they’ve already taken that path months ago.

BeoErgon.9107:

It is what baffles me about the CDI. It is supposed to be a conversation but they answered none of the questions players made. A conversation is supposed to be both ways.

I suppose that they had strict instructions not to talk about was going to be done, but anyways. Talking about vertical progression without that key information is useless.

I don’t think it’s intended to be a conversations, what it is is one thread, one place where they drop topics and let the players chip in. They read through and pick things which look interesting to them and go “so if we did this here…” . . .

It feels a lot like a convention panel. It’s a dead given not everyone is going to get the same kind of attention as the people at the microphone asking the questions, but you can still attend and maybe get your words across where they can be looked at later in a room when they replay footage.

VOLKON.1290:

Leamas.5803:

Skan.5301:

Leamas.5803:

mesme.5028:

And when the level cap is increased, will we all start again in the new level cap greens?

If they increase the level cap, I will leave the game permanently.

They’ve already said that they’re going to increase the cap at some point.

And that’s fine. I’ll play until that point and move to something else. The only way I’ll stay is if they automatically bump 80s and 80 gear up to the new level cap (Which I can’t see happening). I’ve already leveled my 80(s) and have no interest in grinding out 20 more levels and new gear. This would be a game ender for me, and I know I’m by no means alone in this opinion.

I’d be surprised if they did now… ascended gear and the time and effort that goes into it don’t seem like the type of gear you throw away as a new tier comes along (or a level bump). They may have had been considering that as an option pre-ascended, but the way ascended is designed if there were ever a level cap increase unless they upgraded all ascended gear you’d never see it crafted again.

There’s one thing GW2 doesn’t and probably never will need is a level cap increase. It simply doesn’t make sense to do so.

Unless they only increase Ascended and Legendary to the level cap and leave exotic at 80. This would be bad…

VOLKON.1290:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

They do have a point that, and I do agree, the addition of ascended as it currently stands goes against Colin’s original statement (that we should have BiS by lvl 80). However, as time progresses and people build the crafting, it will get to the point where people will be able to craft a set of ascended for a character when it hits 80. We’re just not at that point yet. Allowing people to acquire some of the account bound materials prior to hitting 80 will help this.

Additionally, should they listen to our requests and implement additional ways of acquisition, that would also help to bring it into line with the other armors, and make it more readily obtainable by lvl 80, imo. We just aren’t there yet…

Can’t really argue with that. Well, I could, but it would look silly. I believe at the time of the statement the intent was indeed for characters to hit 80 and have the best (i.e. exotics) available to them, and through crafting, the TP, etc. that was certainly the case. At the time what he was was most definitely true, however the community wanted more so they created ascended without violating the principles of the manifesto (the statement is outside the manifesto, as we all know).

I think it’s also clear Colin misspoke a little due to the fact that you don’t really see level 80 drops until you hit level 80 as opposed to by level 80, so taking one statement made in an interview on the fly as gospel is an error in my opinion. At least I didn’t see an exotic 80 drop until I hit 80… not sure on others.

Agreed. At the time of the statement, I do believe that was their intent, and their general line of thought. Essentially, by 80 you should have enough materials to craft a set, or enough gold to buy a set, or enough karma to get a set, or even enough dungeon tokens (1380 really aint so much) to get a set… of full exotic gear. However, they were also probably thinking that it would take people a little longer than 36 hours to do it. (If I recall, the first person to hit 80 only took roughly 36 hours, and then decked himself in full exo)

However, at that point the cry was raised for ‘more’ by the community, as you pointed out. As many have actually pointed out in the various arguments over ascended gear. At which point, they had to step back and re-think their approach.

We do have other statements from Colin, which may hold truth, but only Anet really knows one way or the other on them. Things like ascended having been originally planned, but not making the cut. That’s something I could take with a grain of salt, since it’s not uncommon to develop and then not have it necessarily make the final deployment. He’s also said that they had a time frame that they thought it would take people to get exotics, and we blew them out of the water. That I can completely believe. Considering they launched without having Orr finished, I can believe they honestly thought it would take people more than a few days to max their characters out. They probably thought it would take close to a few weeks. Faulty planning on their part, but it is what it is. There are also other statements, but I won’t go into them all.

Essentially it simply boils down to the simple truth that businesses have to change and adapt with the ebb and flow of their customer base. What may be one’s initial intent may not pan out exactly as planned. Unfortunately, many (if not most) player’s aren’t as flexible and aren’t as willing to accept change.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

VOLKON.1290:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

They do have a point that, and I do agree, the addition of ascended as it currently stands goes against Colin’s original statement (that we should have BiS by lvl 80). However, as time progresses and people build the crafting, it will get to the point where people will be able to craft a set of ascended for a character when it hits 80. We’re just not at that point yet. Allowing people to acquire some of the account bound materials prior to hitting 80 will help this.

Additionally, should they listen to our requests and implement additional ways of acquisition, that would also help to bring it into line with the other armors, and make it more readily obtainable by lvl 80, imo. We just aren’t there yet…

Can’t really argue with that. Well, I could, but it would look silly. I believe at the time of the statement the intent was indeed for characters to hit 80 and have the best (i.e. exotics) available to them, and through crafting, the TP, etc. that was certainly the case. At the time what he was was most definitely true, however the community wanted more so they created ascended without violating the principles of the manifesto (the statement is outside the manifesto, as we all know).

I think it’s also clear Colin misspoke a little due to the fact that you don’t really see level 80 drops until you hit level 80 as opposed to by level 80, so taking one statement made in an interview on the fly as gospel is an error in my opinion. At least I didn’t see an exotic 80 drop until I hit 80… not sure on others.

Agreed. At the time of the statement, I do believe that was their intent, and their general line of thought. Essentially, by 80 you should have enough materials to craft a set, or enough gold to buy a set, or enough karma to get a set, or even enough dungeon tokens (1380 really aint so much) to get a set… of full exotic gear. However, they were also probably thinking that it would take people a little longer than 36 hours to do it. (If I recall, the first person to hit 80 only took roughly 36 hours, and then decked himself in full exo)

However, at that point the cry was raised for ‘more’ by the community, as you pointed out. As many have actually pointed out in the various arguments over ascended gear. At which point, they had to step back and re-think their approach.

We do have other statements from Colin, which may hold truth, but only Anet really knows one way or the other on them. Things like ascended having been originally planned, but not making the cut. That’s something I could take with a grain of salt, since it’s not uncommon to develop and then not have it necessarily make the final deployment. He’s also said that they had a time frame that they thought it would take people to get exotics, and we blew them out of the water. That I can completely believe. Considering they launched without having Orr finished, I can believe they honestly thought it would take people more than a few days to max their characters out. They probably thought it would take close to a few weeks. Faulty planning on their part, but it is what it is. There are also other statements, but I won’t go into them all.

Essentially it simply boils down to the simple truth that businesses have to change and adapt with the ebb and flow of their customer base. What may be one’s initial intent may not pan out exactly as planned. Unfortunately, many (if not most) player’s aren’t as flexible and aren’t as willing to accept change.

the thing is, though, it certainly wasn’t the entire community. in fact, there was a lot of people who repeatedly argued against those calling for a gear treadmill to be put in. in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted. it took months for it to even stabilize and never gained back how much they lost. it was clearly a bad decision that being pushed by a minority. instead of caving, anet should have just said “no. that goes against our intention for the game and the expectations given to our customers. we’re not going to flush our game down the toilet because a very vocal minorty can’t accept that this isn’t WoW.” and the entire debacle would have been avoided. they would have lost those who would were calling for a treadmill, but would have kept a lot more players in the long run.

Phantom.8130:

in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted.

I’m completely sure NCsoft’s stock has everything to do with GW2 and not with other stuff or other outside influences. It is totally and solely because Ascended was announced.

Phantom.8130:

the thing is, though, it certainly wasn’t the entire community. in fact, there was a lot of people who repeatedly argued against those calling for a gear treadmill to be put in. in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted. it took months for it to even stabilize and never gained back how much they lost. it was clearly a bad decision that being pushed by a minority. instead of caving, anet should have just said “no. that goes against our intention for the game and the expectations given to our customers. we’re not going to flush our game down the toilet because a very vocal minorty can’t accept that this isn’t WoW.” and the entire debacle would have been avoided. they would have lost those who would were calling for a treadmill, but would have kept a lot more players in the long run.

I um… oh my. Well, a couple things. First, there’s no treadmill in the game still. Second, ascended gear did not result in NCSoft stock dropping in value. I’m at a loss for words to think anyone would even try to make that connection. Seriously.

There is no treadmill. Understand this.

VOLKON.1290:

Phantom.8130:

the thing is, though, it certainly wasn’t the entire community. in fact, there was a lot of people who repeatedly argued against those calling for a gear treadmill to be put in. in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted. it took months for it to even stabilize and never gained back how much they lost. it was clearly a bad decision that being pushed by a minority. instead of caving, anet should have just said “no. that goes against our intention for the game and the expectations given to our customers. we’re not going to flush our game down the toilet because a very vocal minorty can’t accept that this isn’t WoW.” and the entire debacle would have been avoided. they would have lost those who would were calling for a treadmill, but would have kept a lot more players in the long run.

I um… oh my. Well, a couple things. First, there’s no treadmill in the game still. Second, ascended gear did not result in NCSoft stock dropping in value. I’m at a loss for words to think anyone would even try to make that connection. Seriously.

There is no treadmill. Understand this.

There is the endless loop of this discussion though.

And yet you guys still play the game, hmm?

Phantom.8130:

the thing is, though, it certainly wasn’t the entire community. in fact, there was a lot of people who repeatedly argued against those calling for a gear treadmill to be put in. in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted. it took months for it to even stabilize and never gained back how much they lost. it was clearly a bad decision that being pushed by a minority. instead of caving, anet should have just said “no. that goes against our intention for the game and the expectations given to our customers. we’re not going to flush our game down the toilet because a very vocal minorty can’t accept that this isn’t WoW.” and the entire debacle would have been avoided. they would have lost those who would were calling for a treadmill, but would have kept a lot more players in the long run.

True, it wasn’t the entire community that wanted this. Rarely does it ever occur that an entire gaming community can agree on something. However, it was enough of the community crying out for it that Anet thought it was a good idea. That’s the big difference. Such business decisions are based (generally) on what the majority desires, how easily it could be implemented, and weights the potential gain vs loss to determine if the plan should be pushed forward. Based on the information they had at the time, it obviously looked like it should have been a good thing. Whether it has actually turned out to work in their favor, we really don’t know. We do not have that data to review and make determinations on.

Had Anet simply said ‘no’ as you suggest, the stock price may have fell just as drastically. Maybe not. Then again, maybe the stock price falling didn’t actually have anything to do with ascended. Again, we can make assumptions based on what we’ve seen, but we really don’t know. We don’t have the data. Honestly, we can go around and around arguing such, but the fact of the matter is that Anet obviously had something that made them think this was the correct path, and that’s what they went with. The decision is theirs as the developers, not ours. We can voice our opinions, and then support that opinion with our pocketbooks, but ultimately the final decision is never ours. (Kind of like voting…the person with the bigger bribe wins, doesn’t matter who you voted for…)

At this point ascended is in the game. We’re stuck with it. It is not going away. (Can you imagine the uproar if they did remove it now? Oh dear gods….) At this point, the best we can do is mitigate the damage by loudly telling them how we’d like to see it fixed… like more acquisition, less grind, obtainable by level 80 rather than only after, etc etc. Additionally, we can band together than tell them, again very loudly, that we do not desire any more tiers, and that we want the gear tiers to stop here. Just remember to be polite and rational about it. They are more likely to listen to (and accept) a well thought out argument, than some wild rant.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Phantom.8130:

in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted.

I’m completely sure NCsoft’s stock has everything to do with GW2 and not with other stuff or other outside influences. It is totally and solely because Ascended was announced.

everything? no, and i never said it did. a significant portion of their stocks? yes, and only a fool would argue otherwise. their stocks didn’t drop down to being worthless, but they did take a significant hit that they still haven’t recovered from. given that gw2 was the most publicized project of theirs at the time, and the massive disapproval of the direction it took (as displayed by the sheer amount of public outcry on these very forums), one would have to be blind not to see the relation the two things have with each other. it’s called deductive reasoning.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

True, it wasn’t the entire community that wanted this. Rarely does it ever occur that an entire gaming community can agree on something. However, it was enough of the community crying out for it that Anet thought it was a good idea. That’s the big difference.

That’s unlikely to be the reason. Way more people asked for mounts, raids or holy trinity than asked for gear increase. Community response against new gear tiers was pretty much uniform in those first months as well. If that was enough for Anet to think it was a good idea, then it means absolutely any other idea, no matter how absurd, might be considered good tomorrow. And that “good ideas” are picked out from all others by throwing dice or drawing lots. Which i don’t consider very likely.

Phantom.8130:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Phantom.8130:

in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted.

I’m completely sure NCsoft’s stock has everything to do with GW2 and not with other stuff or other outside influences. It is totally and solely because Ascended was announced.

everything? no, and i never said it did. a significant portion of their stocks? yes, and only a fool would argue otherwise. their stocks didn’t drop down to being worthless, but they did take a significant hit that they still haven’t recovered from. given that gw2 was the most publicized project of theirs at the time, and the massive disapproval of the direction it took (as displayed by the sheer amount of public outcry on these very forums), one would have to be blind not to see the relation the two things have with each other. it’s called deductive reasoning.

Sure… I can see a bunch of brokers over at the korean stock exchange going “WHAT?! Ascended gear?! SELL SELL SELL!!!!!”

Phantom.8130:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Phantom.8130:

in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted.

I’m completely sure NCsoft’s stock has everything to do with GW2 and not with other stuff or other outside influences. It is totally and solely because Ascended was announced.

everything? no, and i never said it did. a significant portion of their stocks? yes, and only a fool would argue otherwise. their stocks didn’t drop down to being worthless, but they did take a significant hit that they still haven’t recovered from. given that gw2 was the most publicized project of theirs at the time, and the massive disapproval of the direction it took (as displayed by the sheer amount of public outcry on these very forums), one would have to be blind not to see the relation the two things have with each other. it’s called deductive reasoning.

I’m not a fool, but I argue otherwise because it’s pretty presumptive to assume a dip is solely because of one decision, in one game, when NCsoft has other games going on under its name. Not just Guild Wars 2.

There’s a bit of myopia in this whole argument you’re putting forth about how GW2’s woes with the Ascended debacle that November/December is the sole possible cause of the stock for the company falling.

Not the massive technical issues Lost Shores suffered for their first ever attempt at what would become the Living Story.

Not any other decision for any other game which may or may not have started with the word “city” which still outraged a lot of a lot of people. More than Ascended, I would say.

Not financial issues elsewhere.

No, it has to have been Ascended’s announcement in Guild Wars 2.

VOLKON.1290:

Phantom.8130:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Phantom.8130:

in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted.

I’m completely sure NCsoft’s stock has everything to do with GW2 and not with other stuff or other outside influences. It is totally and solely because Ascended was announced.

everything? no, and i never said it did. a significant portion of their stocks? yes, and only a fool would argue otherwise. their stocks didn’t drop down to being worthless, but they did take a significant hit that they still haven’t recovered from. given that gw2 was the most publicized project of theirs at the time, and the massive disapproval of the direction it took (as displayed by the sheer amount of public outcry on these very forums), one would have to be blind not to see the relation the two things have with each other. it’s called deductive reasoning.

Sure… I can see a bunch of brokers over at the korean stock exchange going “WHAT?! Ascended gear?! SELL SELL SELL!!!!!”

nope. public disapproval. that’s what they’d be looking at, and any stockbroker worth his salt is going to know how public views the company they have money invested into. if they don’t do research into everything surrounding where their money is tied up, they’re not going to be stockbrokers for very long. no decent stockbroker is going to invest blindly, and hope they get lucky like they’re in vegas. they’re going to become very familiar with the company and the product, so if the company makes a decision that the public dislike, the stockbroker sell or short sell the stocks instead of losing their investment.

Phantom.8130:

VOLKON.1290:

Phantom.8130:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Phantom.8130:

in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted.

I’m completely sure NCsoft’s stock has everything to do with GW2 and not with other stuff or other outside influences. It is totally and solely because Ascended was announced.

everything? no, and i never said it did. a significant portion of their stocks? yes, and only a fool would argue otherwise. their stocks didn’t drop down to being worthless, but they did take a significant hit that they still haven’t recovered from. given that gw2 was the most publicized project of theirs at the time, and the massive disapproval of the direction it took (as displayed by the sheer amount of public outcry on these very forums), one would have to be blind not to see the relation the two things have with each other. it’s called deductive reasoning.

Sure… I can see a bunch of brokers over at the korean stock exchange going “WHAT?! Ascended gear?! SELL SELL SELL!!!!!”

nope. public disapproval. that’s what they’d be looking at, and any stockbroker worth his salt is going to know how public views the company they have money invested into. if they don’t do research into everything surrounding where their money is tied up, they’re not going to be stockbrokers for very long. no decent stockbroker is going to invest blindly, and hope they get lucky like they’re in vegas. they’re going to become very familiar with the company and the product, so if the company makes a decision that the public dislike, the stockbroker sell or short sell the stocks instead of losing their investment.

Eh… no. Brokers aren’t trolling the GW2 forums trying to make decisions as to whether or not they should buy or sell NCSoft stock. First of all, Guild Wars 2 is only one piece of the puzzle… there are many games under the NCSoft umbrella. Secondly… what else happened in that time period that may have been significant?

VOLKON.1290:

Phantom.8130:

VOLKON.1290:

Phantom.8130:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Phantom.8130:

in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted.

I’m completely sure NCsoft’s stock has everything to do with GW2 and not with other stuff or other outside influences. It is totally and solely because Ascended was announced.

everything? no, and i never said it did. a significant portion of their stocks? yes, and only a fool would argue otherwise. their stocks didn’t drop down to being worthless, but they did take a significant hit that they still haven’t recovered from. given that gw2 was the most publicized project of theirs at the time, and the massive disapproval of the direction it took (as displayed by the sheer amount of public outcry on these very forums), one would have to be blind not to see the relation the two things have with each other. it’s called deductive reasoning.

Sure… I can see a bunch of brokers over at the korean stock exchange going “WHAT?! Ascended gear?! SELL SELL SELL!!!!!”

nope. public disapproval. that’s what they’d be looking at, and any stockbroker worth his salt is going to know how public views the company they have money invested into. if they don’t do research into everything surrounding where their money is tied up, they’re not going to be stockbrokers for very long. no decent stockbroker is going to invest blindly, and hope they get lucky like they’re in vegas. they’re going to become very familiar with the company and the product, so if the company makes a decision that the public dislike, the stockbroker sell or short sell the stocks instead of losing their investment.

Eh… no. Brokers aren’t trolling the GW2 forums trying to make decisions as to whether or not they should buy or sell NCSoft stock. First of all, Guild Wars 2 is only one piece of the puzzle… there are many games under the NCSoft umbrella. Secondly… what else happened in that time period that may have been significant?

Still want to point out on that thread of topic, the whole other debacle NCsoft was working against from gamers. Like, a whole game’s worth of gamers suddenly dispossessed of a game they put a lot of love and time into with the plug suddenly pulled with no warning . . .

. . . nah, can’t be that. He’s right, it has to be Ascended.

Astralporing.1957:

That’s unlikely to be the reason. Way more people asked for mounts, raids or holy trinity than asked for gear increase. Community response against new gear tiers was pretty much uniform in those first months as well. If that was enough for Anet to think it was a good idea, then it means absolutely any other idea, no matter how absurd, might be considered good tomorrow. And that “good ideas” are picked out from all others by throwing dice or drawing lots. Which i don’t consider very likely.

Are you sure about that? If so, then were are your numbers? Your data to back up your thoughts?

Sure, we can dig through posts… on here, on guru, on reddit, and several other sites. We can tally up the info we have there to find out how many are for or against something, but we still cannot be sure, even at that point, if the numbers we have are all that was used. Anet is going to have access to more data than we do. If their database set up is done correctly, they should be able to datamine any combination of keywords to see how people respond to, and how often they are talking about things like ascended, mounts, etc.

I get that you don’t like ascended, I’m not exactly the most keen on it myself. However, I’m also aware that businesses don’t just ‘throw dice’ to make their decisions. Data and profit forecasts are taken into consideration, especially for long term plans. They don’t sit around and ask ‘hey, how can we kitten off our customers today?’ That’s just not good business sense.

VOLKON.1290:

darkace.8925:

VOLKON.1290:

morrolan.9608:

VOLKON.1290:

The reason ascended was introduced makes perfect sense in my opinion. They simply didn’t expect exotics to become so plentiful and easy to get.

This is incorrect and has been proven to be so by quotes in this thread.

No it isn’t.

You couldn’t possibly be more wrong. Collin Johanson himself said, and I quote, “everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.”

Actually you’re wrong. All level 80 characters do and did have access to the best statistical loot in the game. You don’t reach level 80 then have to go through a series of weekly dungeon and raid runs to eventually get access to the best statistical loot… it’s all available as soon as you hit 80.

In other MMOs (like WoW for example) you’d have to level up to 80 (at the time for me), then you’ve only just begun the grind of trying to gain access to the best statistical loot. You’d run dungeons to get gear for heroic dungeons and raids, only to get gear for the next raid, ad infinitum.

The best statistical loot in the game is available as soon as you hit level 80. Before you could get it overnight. Now it takes a little longer if you’re driven to getting ascended.

LOL. Have ACCESS to best statistical loot in the game by MAX level. Wait … Need some time to stop laughing …
Ok. In EVERY game character of MAX level have theoretical ACCESS to best statistical loot in the game (maybe there are exclusions when you need to pay real money for BiS, I don’t know. In this case it’s not a game I will play anyway). In WOW you grind by doing raids. In GW2 you grind by doing boring crap without new content. You need to do the same dungeons (call it raids if you want) to get empyreal. What are you talking about ?
I’m not even arguing now about need/want logic here. But your interpretation of the quotation is just fabulous.

BeoErgon.9107:

During the CDI for vertical progression I asked many and many times for that question: will level cap increase?

Never got an answer.

I said each time that without that information, all the CDI on vertical progression was void and null. It’s an essential information to talk about progression and they never ever dared to answer.

Real great ideas in the vertical progression thread… but they are all void if they increase the level cap (which has been said elsewhere that they will do).

It is what baffles me about the CDI. It is supposed to be a conversation but they answered none of the questions players made. A conversation is supposed to be both ways.

I suppose that they had strict instructions not to talk about was going to be done, but anyways. Talking about vertical progression without that key information is useless.

This thread, and others like it, are exactly why ArenaNet wouldn’t directly answer that. That’s why we always get vague answers of soon in regards to content. Because once someone says something, people uphold it as law. Just like the comment in the interview about getting best gear before hitting 80.

It’s incredibly unfortunate, and presents a sort of catch-22. The community berates ArenaNet for not communicating, but then it tears them a new one when it doesn’t come excatly when and how it was said. Change is a part of MMOs. They’re not like console games. They don’t remain static. So you should always understand that whatever they say is subject to changes (pretty sure that’s in the terms and conditions too). Whenever and why ever.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m not a fool, but I argue otherwise because it’s pretty presumptive to assume a dip is solely because of one decision, in one game, when NCsoft has other games going on under its name. Not just Guild Wars 2.

There’s a bit of myopia in this whole argument you’re putting forth about how GW2’s woes with the Ascended debacle that November/December is the sole possible cause of the stock for the company falling.

Not the massive technical issues Lost Shores suffered for their first ever attempt at what would become the Living Story.

Not any other decision for any other game which may or may not have started with the word “city” which still outraged a lot of a lot of people. More than Ascended, I would say.

Not financial issues elsewhere.

No, it has to have been Ascended’s announcement in Guild Wars 2.

it’s not presumptive at all. it’s understanding how stock trade works. entire companies have gone bankrupt due to single bad decisions. hence why large companies like to have multiple projects going on at once. if one fails, they’re not crippled by it.

the thing about the stock trade is that it moves extremely fast. you can be rich in the morning and poor by lunch, only to be rich again by closing. it’s not a slow gradual process. when something happens, good or bad, the stock begins moving quickly. which is why the plummet happened. something happened (the company moved their product in a clearly unpopular direction), it was bad (as displayed by the public outcry), and the stock dropped immediately. if there were multiple factors over the course of a couple months, the stock would have gone down gradually. it didn’t. it dropped like a rock when ascended was announced. the entire process took a little over a week.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Phantom.8130:

the thing is, though, it certainly wasn’t the entire community. in fact, there was a lot of people who repeatedly argued against those calling for a gear treadmill to be put in. in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted. it took months for it to even stabilize and never gained back how much they lost. it was clearly a bad decision that being pushed by a minority. instead of caving, anet should have just said “no. that goes against our intention for the game and the expectations given to our customers. we’re not going to flush our game down the toilet because a very vocal minorty can’t accept that this isn’t WoW.” and the entire debacle would have been avoided. they would have lost those who would were calling for a treadmill, but would have kept a lot more players in the long run.

True, it wasn’t the entire community that wanted this. Rarely does it ever occur that an entire gaming community can agree on something. However, it was enough of the community crying out for it that Anet thought it was a good idea. That’s the big difference. Such business decisions are based (generally) on what the majority desires, how easily it could be implemented, and weights the potential gain vs loss to determine if the plan should be pushed forward. Based on the information they had at the time, it obviously looked like it should have been a good thing. Whether it has actually turned out to work in their favor, we really don’t know. We do not have that data to review and make determinations on.

Had Anet simply said ‘no’ as you suggest, the stock price may have fell just as drastically. Maybe not. Then again, maybe the stock price falling didn’t actually have anything to do with ascended. Again, we can make assumptions based on what we’ve seen, but we really don’t know. We don’t have the data. Honestly, we can go around and around arguing such, but the fact of the matter is that Anet obviously had something that made them think this was the correct path, and that’s what they went with. The decision is theirs as the developers, not ours. We can voice our opinions, and then support that opinion with our pocketbooks, but ultimately the final decision is never ours. (Kind of like voting…the person with the bigger bribe wins, doesn’t matter who you voted for…)

At this point ascended is in the game. We’re stuck with it. It is not going away. (Can you imagine the uproar if they did remove it now? Oh dear gods….) At this point, the best we can do is mitigate the damage by loudly telling them how we’d like to see it fixed… like more acquisition, less grind, obtainable by level 80 rather than only after, etc etc. Additionally, we can band together than tell them, again very loudly, that we do not desire any more tiers, and that we want the gear tiers to stop here. Just remember to be polite and rational about it. They are more likely to listen to (and accept) a well thought out argument, than some wild rant.

Now look here! – you’re being rather too sensible in this thread… stop it at once! Think of the popcorn!

Ceridwen.6703:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Phantom.8130:

the thing is, though, it certainly wasn’t the entire community. in fact, there was a lot of people who repeatedly argued against those calling for a gear treadmill to be put in. in fact, if you take a look at the NCsoft’s financial report, when they announced ascended gear in november, their stock value plummeted. it took months for it to even stabilize and never gained back how much they lost. it was clearly a bad decision that being pushed by a minority. instead of caving, anet should have just said “no. that goes against our intention for the game and the expectations given to our customers. we’re not going to flush our game down the toilet because a very vocal minorty can’t accept that this isn’t WoW.” and the entire debacle would have been avoided. they would have lost those who would were calling for a treadmill, but would have kept a lot more players in the long run.

True, it wasn’t the entire community that wanted this. Rarely does it ever occur that an entire gaming community can agree on something. However, it was enough of the community crying out for it that Anet thought it was a good idea. That’s the big difference. Such business decisions are based (generally) on what the majority desires, how easily it could be implemented, and weights the potential gain vs loss to determine if the plan should be pushed forward. Based on the information they had at the time, it obviously looked like it should have been a good thing. Whether it has actually turned out to work in their favor, we really don’t know. We do not have that data to review and make determinations on.

Had Anet simply said ‘no’ as you suggest, the stock price may have fell just as drastically. Maybe not. Then again, maybe the stock price falling didn’t actually have anything to do with ascended. Again, we can make assumptions based on what we’ve seen, but we really don’t know. We don’t have the data. Honestly, we can go around and around arguing such, but the fact of the matter is that Anet obviously had something that made them think this was the correct path, and that’s what they went with. The decision is theirs as the developers, not ours. We can voice our opinions, and then support that opinion with our pocketbooks, but ultimately the final decision is never ours. (Kind of like voting…the person with the bigger bribe wins, doesn’t matter who you voted for…)

At this point ascended is in the game. We’re stuck with it. It is not going away. (Can you imagine the uproar if they did remove it now? Oh dear gods….) At this point, the best we can do is mitigate the damage by loudly telling them how we’d like to see it fixed… like more acquisition, less grind, obtainable by level 80 rather than only after, etc etc. Additionally, we can band together than tell them, again very loudly, that we do not desire any more tiers, and that we want the gear tiers to stop here. Just remember to be polite and rational about it. They are more likely to listen to (and accept) a well thought out argument, than some wild rant.

Now look here! – you’re being rather too sensible in this thread… stop it at once! Think of the popcorn!

Mmmmm popcorn…..

Everyone… back on the rage wagon!

imports fresh supply of pitchforks and torches

VOLKON.1290:

Eh… no. Brokers aren’t trolling the GW2 forums trying to make decisions as to whether or not they should buy or sell NCSoft stock. First of all, Guild Wars 2 is only one piece of the puzzle… there are many games under the NCSoft umbrella. Secondly… what else happened in that time period that may have been significant?

if you don’t think that stockbrokers research the companies they’re going to invest their money in, then you should avoid that career choice like it’s the plague. an intelligent stockbroker, who wishes to remain a stockbroker, learns every detail that may impact their financial investment. if they didn’t, they might as well just go to vegas and put everything on red.

Phantom.8130:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m not a fool, but I argue otherwise because it’s pretty presumptive to assume a dip is solely because of one decision, in one game, when NCsoft has other games going on under its name. Not just Guild Wars 2.

There’s a bit of myopia in this whole argument you’re putting forth about how GW2’s woes with the Ascended debacle that November/December is the sole possible cause of the stock for the company falling.

Not the massive technical issues Lost Shores suffered for their first ever attempt at what would become the Living Story.

Not any other decision for any other game which may or may not have started with the word “city” which still outraged a lot of a lot of people. More than Ascended, I would say.

Not financial issues elsewhere.

No, it has to have been Ascended’s announcement in Guild Wars 2.

it’s not presumptive at all. it’s understanding how stock trade works. entire companies have gone bankrupt due to single bad decisions. hence why large companies like to have multiple projects going on at once. if one fails, they’re not crippled by it.

the thing about the stock trade is that it moves extremely fast. you can be rich in the morning and poor by lunch, only to be rich again by closing. it’s not a slow gradual process. when something happens, good or bad, the stock begins moving quickly. which is why the plummet happened. something happened (the company moved their product in a clearly unpopular direction), it was bad (as displayed by the public outcry), and the stock dropped immediately. if there were multiple factors over the course of a couple months, the stock would have gone down gradually. it didn’t. it dropped like a rock when ascended was announced. the entire process took a little over a week.

And it’s entirely due to Ascended’s announcement, which is pretty awesome if you consider it. I mean, NCsoft’s fate is entirely determined by Guild Wars 2 forum readers.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Phantom.8130:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m not a fool, but I argue otherwise because it’s pretty presumptive to assume a dip is solely because of one decision, in one game, when NCsoft has other games going on under its name. Not just Guild Wars 2.

There’s a bit of myopia in this whole argument you’re putting forth about how GW2’s woes with the Ascended debacle that November/December is the sole possible cause of the stock for the company falling.

Not the massive technical issues Lost Shores suffered for their first ever attempt at what would become the Living Story.

Not any other decision for any other game which may or may not have started with the word “city” which still outraged a lot of a lot of people. More than Ascended, I would say.

Not financial issues elsewhere.

No, it has to have been Ascended’s announcement in Guild Wars 2.

it’s not presumptive at all. it’s understanding how stock trade works. entire companies have gone bankrupt due to single bad decisions. hence why large companies like to have multiple projects going on at once. if one fails, they’re not crippled by it.

the thing about the stock trade is that it moves extremely fast. you can be rich in the morning and poor by lunch, only to be rich again by closing. it’s not a slow gradual process. when something happens, good or bad, the stock begins moving quickly. which is why the plummet happened. something happened (the company moved their product in a clearly unpopular direction), it was bad (as displayed by the public outcry), and the stock dropped immediately. if there were multiple factors over the course of a couple months, the stock would have gone down gradually. it didn’t. it dropped like a rock when ascended was announced. the entire process took a little over a week.

And it’s entirely due to Ascended’s announcement, which is pretty awesome if you consider it. I mean, NCsoft’s fate is entirely determined by Guild Wars 2 forum readers.

did you read anything i wrote at all, or did you just see “stocks”, “NCSoft”, and “ascended” and just kinda use the force to piece it all together in your head?

WRay.2391:

LOL. Have ACCESS to best statistical loot in the game by MAX level. Wait … Need some time to stop laughing …
Ok. In EVERY game character of MAX level have theoretical ACCESS to best statistical loot in the game (maybe there are exclusions when you need to pay real money for BiS, I don’t know. In this case it’s not a game I will play anyway). In WOW you grind by doing raids. In GW2 you grind by doing boring crap without new content. You need to do the same dungeons (call it raids if you want) to get empyreal. What are you talking about ?
I’m not even arguing now about need/want logic here. But your interpretation of the quotation is just fabulous.

Somewhere in a corner, the point quietly sobs, dejected at the fact that it has been completely missed.

Yes, at level 80, you immediately have access to the best statistical loot in the game. This is an indisputable fact. It’s also a fact that a character that reaches max level in a game like WoW does not have immediate access to the best loot (at least it didn’t when I played…). You have (had?) to grind through dungeons then raids after that simply to have a chance at getting anywhere the best loot. If you didn’t raid the latest raid, you had no access, period. (PvP gear was a whole different grind…)

Note: Best statistical loot isn’t about the look, it’s about the stats alone.

People on other forums have said that some of the creative team were canned when launch happened. If this is true then that would explain the sudden immediate game change to fractals and the addition of ascended only two months into launch.

I’m not sure what happened myself but it does seem like people with completely different goals are working on this game than when it started.

Also, regarding Volkon’s response above, no characters don’t have instant access to anything at level 80 they have to grind for it. There is a VERY VERY large difference between getting using easily found currency by doing multiple choices when it comes to activities AND the single focus they have you doing in this title. In WoW for example, there are dailies, special questlines, solo dungeons, 3 man dungeons, 5 man regulars, 5 man heroics, 10 man raids, 25 man raids and flexible raids all of which give the two basic currencies for everything max level. What do they have here? The same few dungeons they had before, and the addition of fractals which if you reach a certain level you are cutoff because of lack of agony resist. So basically this game went against their own design philosophy and gave people FEWER choices for end game content to build what they need for the best statistical armor and weapons. There IS a difference and that’s what I think this thread is about.

mesme.5028:

It may appear to look as thou this is a qq thread but it’s not my intention,
The devs look like really nice peeps and im sure they are, they just have a nice way about them and i like them, i wonder thou what actually happened with gw2.

Things from the manifesto are quite the opposite, grind for example, i am sure the devs have been asked this before but idk, why the change? what happened? was it necessary? was the manifesto a ideal to strive for but in reality not really possible?

Does anyone have any links to the devs explaining why the game isn’t like the manifesto?

Again this isn’t a qq thread, i guess they had to make these changes but id like to know why.

Phantom.8130:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Phantom.8130:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m not a fool, but I argue otherwise because it’s pretty presumptive to assume a dip is solely because of one decision, in one game, when NCsoft has other games going on under its name. Not just Guild Wars 2.

There’s a bit of myopia in this whole argument you’re putting forth about how GW2’s woes with the Ascended debacle that November/December is the sole possible cause of the stock for the company falling.

Not the massive technical issues Lost Shores suffered for their first ever attempt at what would become the Living Story.

Not any other decision for any other game which may or may not have started with the word “city” which still outraged a lot of a lot of people. More than Ascended, I would say.

Not financial issues elsewhere.

No, it has to have been Ascended’s announcement in Guild Wars 2.

it’s not presumptive at all. it’s understanding how stock trade works. entire companies have gone bankrupt due to single bad decisions. hence why large companies like to have multiple projects going on at once. if one fails, they’re not crippled by it.

the thing about the stock trade is that it moves extremely fast. you can be rich in the morning and poor by lunch, only to be rich again by closing. it’s not a slow gradual process. when something happens, good or bad, the stock begins moving quickly. which is why the plummet happened. something happened (the company moved their product in a clearly unpopular direction), it was bad (as displayed by the public outcry), and the stock dropped immediately. if there were multiple factors over the course of a couple months, the stock would have gone down gradually. it didn’t. it dropped like a rock when ascended was announced. the entire process took a little over a week.

And it’s entirely due to Ascended’s announcement, which is pretty awesome if you consider it. I mean, NCsoft’s fate is entirely determined by Guild Wars 2 forum readers.

did you read anything i wrote at all, or did you just see “stocks”, “NCSoft”, and “ascended” and just kinda use the force to piece it all together in your head?

Do you read anything I write at all, or do you just decide I don’t know what I’m talking about since I don’t agree with you?

NCsoft still gets flak to this day from about a dozen people I know over CoX. You probably’d don’t know it but . . . it happened to close its doors in November 2012 alongside the whole Ascended debacle. That was the final month of it, and it had been announced in August it was going away. And people tried to save it, but were unable to.

So, an entire game’s worth of jilted players had nothing to do with the stock drop at all?

Phantom.8130:

VOLKON.1290:

Eh… no. Brokers aren’t trolling the GW2 forums trying to make decisions as to whether or not they should buy or sell NCSoft stock. First of all, Guild Wars 2 is only one piece of the puzzle… there are many games under the NCSoft umbrella. Secondly… what else happened in that time period that may have been significant?

if you don’t think that stockbrokers research the companies they’re going to invest their money in, then you should avoid that career choice like it’s the plague. an intelligent stockbroker, who wishes to remain a stockbroker, learns every detail that may impact their financial investment. if they didn’t, they might as well just go to vegas and put everything on red.

Don’t be ridiculous. Of course they research the companies. They look at numbers, facts and figures. They look at trends. They look at projected growth.

They don’t, however, troll the game forums of a subsidiary company to see if there’s an outcry over a decision the subsidiary company made in the game. (Hell, if they did that then ALL game companies would have stock that’s worthless!) When they’re looking at what ANet brings to the NCSoft fold they’re looking at the big picture, the actual data, facts and figures… not you and I and our differing opinions on something silly.

VOLKON.1290:

Yes, at level 80, you immediately have access to the best statistical loot in the game. This is an indisputable fact. It’s also a fact that a character that reaches max level in a game like WoW does not have immediate access to the best loot (at least it didn’t when I played…). You have (had?) to grind through dungeons then raids after that simply to have a chance at getting anywhere the best loot. If you didn’t raid the latest raid, you had no access, period. (PvP gear was a whole different grind…)

Whats the difference between grind through dungeons and raids and grinding for materials? Both can be said to have access. The main difference is that in WoW it now takes much less time to get BiS than in GW2.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Phantom.8130:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Phantom.8130:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’m not a fool, but I argue otherwise because it’s pretty presumptive to assume a dip is solely because of one decision, in one game, when NCsoft has other games going on under its name. Not just Guild Wars 2.

There’s a bit of myopia in this whole argument you’re putting forth about how GW2’s woes with the Ascended debacle that November/December is the sole possible cause of the stock for the company falling.

Not the massive technical issues Lost Shores suffered for their first ever attempt at what would become the Living Story.

Not any other decision for any other game which may or may not have started with the word “city” which still outraged a lot of a lot of people. More than Ascended, I would say.

Not financial issues elsewhere.

No, it has to have been Ascended’s announcement in Guild Wars 2.

it’s not presumptive at all. it’s understanding how stock trade works. entire companies have gone bankrupt due to single bad decisions. hence why large companies like to have multiple projects going on at once. if one fails, they’re not crippled by it.

the thing about the stock trade is that it moves extremely fast. you can be rich in the morning and poor by lunch, only to be rich again by closing. it’s not a slow gradual process. when something happens, good or bad, the stock begins moving quickly. which is why the plummet happened. something happened (the company moved their product in a clearly unpopular direction), it was bad (as displayed by the public outcry), and the stock dropped immediately. if there were multiple factors over the course of a couple months, the stock would have gone down gradually. it didn’t. it dropped like a rock when ascended was announced. the entire process took a little over a week.

And it’s entirely due to Ascended’s announcement, which is pretty awesome if you consider it. I mean, NCsoft’s fate is entirely determined by Guild Wars 2 forum readers.

did you read anything i wrote at all, or did you just see “stocks”, “NCSoft”, and “ascended” and just kinda use the force to piece it all together in your head?

Do you read anything I write at all, or do you just decide I don’t know what I’m talking about since I don’t agree with you?

NCsoft still gets flak to this day from about a dozen people I know over CoX. You probably’d don’t know it but . . . it happened to close its doors in November 2012 alongside the whole Ascended debacle. That was the final month of it, and it had been announced in August it was going away. And people tried to save it, but were unable to.

So, an entire game’s worth of jilted players had nothing to do with the stock drop at all?

i’m well aware of what happened to CoH, and i never said that it had “nothing to do witht eh stock drop at all” which was why i asked if you had actually read what i wrote. because you invented things that were never said.

morrolan.9608:

Whats the difference between grind through dungeons and raids and grinding for materials? Both can be said to have access. The main difference is that in WoW it now takes much less time to get BiS than in GW2.

I think the biggest difference with regard to the WoW/GW2 grind comparison is that while you are playing GW2 you are slowly accumulating the item you want (be it through materials used to make it or gold used to buy it) whereas in WoW you are playing through an entire raid/dungeon looking for a single boss to RNG drop a specific item and hoping you win the Need roll. In GW2 your grind builds progress over time until you get the item while in WoW your grind is never rewarded until you randomly get the item.

VOLKON.1290:

Phantom.8130:

VOLKON.1290:

Eh… no. Brokers aren’t trolling the GW2 forums trying to make decisions as to whether or not they should buy or sell NCSoft stock. First of all, Guild Wars 2 is only one piece of the puzzle… there are many games under the NCSoft umbrella. Secondly… what else happened in that time period that may have been significant?

if you don’t think that stockbrokers research the companies they’re going to invest their money in, then you should avoid that career choice like it’s the plague. an intelligent stockbroker, who wishes to remain a stockbroker, learns every detail that may impact their financial investment. if they didn’t, they might as well just go to vegas and put everything on red.

Don’t be ridiculous. Of course they research the companies. They look at numbers, facts and figures. They look at trends. They look at projected growth.

They don’t, however, troll the game forums of a subsidiary company to see if there’s an outcry over a decision the subsidiary company made in the game. (Hell, if they did that then ALL game companies would have stock that’s worthless!) When they’re looking at what ANet brings to the NCSoft fold they’re looking at the big picture, the actual data, facts and figures… not you and I and our differing opinions on something silly.

you don’t think that they’ll research what the public opinion of a product is? that’s what you’re arguing here. that stockbrokers weren’t looking into what the public opinion of the product of the company they had money invested in. the public opinion wasn’t limited to just these forums. it was in every potential source of consumer opinion. they’d have to have their heads buried in the sand not to know what the reaction was, and how prevalent it was. it was massive community outrage. if they weren’t aware of what it was, they were the one losing money. while the ones that actually researched the company and the product, and the public opinions revolving around said product, actually made money on the deal.