Guild Wars 2

Quaggan walks like human, fight like human, and talk like human.
…
They don’t look like human, but they are humanoid creatures with intelligence.

I take issue with the highlighted assumption. =P

Dusty Moon.4382:

Azhure.1857:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Dwarves are dead (turned to stone – meaning no longer dwarves – see EotN in GW1) – only one left alive (Ogden Stonehammer). All the Stone Summit are deakitten

he only one that is amused when people make statements like this?

Its perfectly acceptable in a fantasy MMORPG for dwarves to be turned to stone but it is then impossible for that to change? Interesting.

EDIT: No matter how many times I edit it correctly, its not fixing the error.

IF you played EotN – from WIKI.

" With the Stone Summit’s defeat, the Dwarves unearthed the Tome of Rubicon and a prophecy foretelling their race’s doom was discovered. This prophecy saw itself fulfilled in 1078 AE when the Destroyers began to rise from the Depths of Tyria, led by the Great Dwarf’s ancient foe, the Great Destroyer.

In order to combat the threat, Jalis Ironhammer and several Dwarves moved to the Far Shiverpeaks and performed the Rite of the Great Dwarf. Through the rite, the Dwarves were transformed into stone and had their minds linked, becoming the Great Dwarf as a collective consciousness. The Dwarves fulfilled the prophecy of the Great Dwarf destroying his old nemesis when they had defeated the Destroyer threat after undergoing the rite.¹

After the war against the Great Destroyer, Duncan the Black, the new leader of the Stone Summit, attempted to harness the power of the recently slain Great Destroyer’s soul, but was killed before his plan could succeed.

Eventually, all Dwarves undertook the Rite of the Great Dwarf.²"

So the Dwarfs are no longer Dwarfs but like the Skritt, a collective conscious. That is why they will not be playable.

Yes, I did play Guild Wars. Yes, I played EotN. Thank you for laying out the lore for dwarves in the GW universe.

However my point is that nothing is set in stone in fiction and fantasy.
Pun intended.

Azhure.1857:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Azhure.1857:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Dwarves are dead (turned to stone – meaning no longer dwarves – see EotN in GW1) – only one left alive (Ogden Stonehammer). All the Stone Summit are deakitten

he only one that is amused when people make statements like this?

Its perfectly acceptable in a fantasy MMORPG for dwarves to be turned to stone but it is then impossible for that to change? Interesting.

EDIT: No matter how many times I edit it correctly, its not fixing the error.

IF you played EotN – from WIKI.

" With the Stone Summit’s defeat, the Dwarves unearthed the Tome of Rubicon and a prophecy foretelling their race’s doom was discovered. This prophecy saw itself fulfilled in 1078 AE when the Destroyers began to rise from the Depths of Tyria, led by the Great Dwarf’s ancient foe, the Great Destroyer.

In order to combat the threat, Jalis Ironhammer and several Dwarves moved to the Far Shiverpeaks and performed the Rite of the Great Dwarf. Through the rite, the Dwarves were transformed into stone and had their minds linked, becoming the Great Dwarf as a collective consciousness. The Dwarves fulfilled the prophecy of the Great Dwarf destroying his old nemesis when they had defeated the Destroyer threat after undergoing the rite.¹

After the war against the Great Destroyer, Duncan the Black, the new leader of the Stone Summit, attempted to harness the power of the recently slain Great Destroyer’s soul, but was killed before his plan could succeed.

Eventually, all Dwarves undertook the Rite of the Great Dwarf.²"

So the Dwarfs are no longer Dwarfs but like the Skritt, a collective conscious. That is why they will not be playable.

Yes, I did play Guild Wars. Yes, I played EotN. Thank you for laying out the lore for dwarves in the GW universe.

However my point is that nothing is set in stone in fiction and fantasy.
Pun intended.

Sure it is. That is the point. If A.Net brought back the Dwarves, it would be Lore breaking, plain and simple. That is the Stone the game is built on – Lore and the Lore in this game is quite extensive (even including 3 novels).

Ogre, Kodan, course something completely new not in game now would also work.

Skritt actually LOL I can just imagine how annoying that would be if there were a Skritt thief in PVP for some

Largos and Koda. They are both interesting, mysterious (in terms of lore) and screams for further revelation.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Azhure.1857:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Azhure.1857:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Dwarves are dead (turned to stone – meaning no longer dwarves – see EotN in GW1) – only one left alive (Ogden Stonehammer). All the Stone Summit are deakitten

he only one that is amused when people make statements like this?

Its perfectly acceptable in a fantasy MMORPG for dwarves to be turned to stone but it is then impossible for that to change? Interesting.

EDIT: No matter how many times I edit it correctly, its not fixing the error.

IF you played EotN – from WIKI.

" With the Stone Summit’s defeat, the Dwarves unearthed the Tome of Rubicon and a prophecy foretelling their race’s doom was discovered. This prophecy saw itself fulfilled in 1078 AE when the Destroyers began to rise from the Depths of Tyria, led by the Great Dwarf’s ancient foe, the Great Destroyer.

In order to combat the threat, Jalis Ironhammer and several Dwarves moved to the Far Shiverpeaks and performed the Rite of the Great Dwarf. Through the rite, the Dwarves were transformed into stone and had their minds linked, becoming the Great Dwarf as a collective consciousness. The Dwarves fulfilled the prophecy of the Great Dwarf destroying his old nemesis when they had defeated the Destroyer threat after undergoing the rite.¹

After the war against the Great Destroyer, Duncan the Black, the new leader of the Stone Summit, attempted to harness the power of the recently slain Great Destroyer’s soul, but was killed before his plan could succeed.

Eventually, all Dwarves undertook the Rite of the Great Dwarf.²"

So the Dwarfs are no longer Dwarfs but like the Skritt, a collective conscious. That is why they will not be playable.

Yes, I did play Guild Wars. Yes, I played EotN. Thank you for laying out the lore for dwarves in the GW universe.

However my point is that nothing is set in stone in fiction and fantasy.
Pun intended.

Sure it is. That is the point. If A.Net brought back the Dwarves, it would be Lore breaking, plain and simple. That is the Stone the game is built on – Lore and the Lore in this game is quite extensive (even including 3 novels).

The Charr lost Ascalon. The Charr took it back in part. Humans ruled all of Tyria. Humans lost power and have been pushed back. The Sylvari didn’t exist. Now they do. The Elder Dragons were asleep. Now they are awake. The Jade Sea was solidified. Now it’s not. LA was part of Kryta. Now it’s an independent state. The dwarfs being turned to stone and then being able to come back to “life” (flesh) is a plot twist and absolutely an acceptable one.

Tyria is full of magic and technology. I’m sure the dwarfs being turned to stone can be overcome as far as lore goes.

1.) The dragons drain the magic from them forcing them back into flesh and blood.
2.) The asura build a device to reverse the effects of the Rite of the Great Dwarf.
3.) The Great Dwarf calls them back to Anvil Rock to be “reformed” into flesh.
4.) The Great Dwarf creates new dwarfs on Anvil Rock.
5.) The Durmand Priory find ancient artifacts that if combined have the ability the change them back.
6.) etc, etc, etc…

I’m sure ANet hasa pretty good staff on hand that could figure something even better out. As far a lore goes ANYTHING is possible. It doesn’t “break lore” or go against the universes rules. In Tyria things change all the time. Nothing is forever.

No, not Tengu, can you imagine a zerg of Talon Silverwing look-alike chicken warriors racing around in Wvw?

Oh … Wait … that would actually be hilarious.

Speaking of largos, do they need rebreathers?

The more I think about it, the more I’d like Centaur the most. Though I’d put plenty of gold on Tengu being the first race introduced (though who has any idea how many years it will be before a new playable race will be introduced.)

GuzziHero.2467:

Here we go again. Time for the copy-paste reply:

---

Forget anything that is a studyable race in the LS. Thats Ogres, Skritt, Hylek, Grawl, Quaggans.

Forget any of the antagonist races/factions. That would be Centaurs (plus, how would they swim?), Nightmare Court, Flame Legion, Inquest, Svanir.

Largos are out as, according to the personal story, they are incredibly rare and avoid contact with all other races if at all possible. It would be as stupid as the Miqo’te in FF14 ARR – they’re supposedly rare and solitary creatures yet the designers make them in such a way that EVERYONE who faps to nekomimi will roll one.

What does this leave us? Kodan, Tengu, Ettin and a handful of others which have groups who are non-antagonistic. Kodan is out right away, they are Norn-based. Tengu are possible but require a very specific armour redesign and we can see what a mess Anet made of Charr armour. Ettin would be fun, but they don’t wear clothes so we can forget them.

Personally, I want to see playable Ooze, but I know it’ll never happen.

Players said similar things about Charr, Norn, and Asura from GW1. We all know how that worked out. The only two that are absolutely not possible are the Skritt and Quaggan, both because of their lore. You can’t have a race where individual characters can’t think for themselves, or one that by all rights only survives by the pity of other more capable races. But if their lore changed, they both could be just as possible as any other.

My personal favorite would be the centaurs. No other game has had them, and they could have some awesome animations.

Maliel.8362:

Speaking of largos, do they need rebreathers?

Yes. Those rebreathers would be filled with xylyl bromide. Er, I mean, magic personality enhancers~

Looking forward to Tengu for another reason. They might finally fix clipping on Charr, once there are two races with similar models.

Rauderi.8706:

Maliel.8362:

Speaking of largos, do they need rebreathers?

Yes. Those rebreathers would be filled with xylyl bromide. Er, I mean, magic personality enhancers~

Looking forward to Tengu for another reason. They might finally fix clipping on Charr, once there are two races with similar models.

They never fixed clipping in GW1, on certain armors in all this time. I don’t think that is a top priority – an annoyance yes (very minor though).

Skritt, Largos, Tengu, Centaur/Quaggan. in that order (Skritt being #1).

Gimme those Shinies!

skullmount.1758:

Skritt, Largos, Tengu, Centaur/Quaggan. in that order (Skritt being #1).

Gimme those Shinies!

:-) TENGU :-) – http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/tengu-announced-next-playable-race ROFL – what a great joke – but there might be some truth in it….

Corpus Christi.2057:

Prophet.6257:

A Massive Headache.1879:

Inguiomerus.1504:

There are two major issues I see with adding in a new race.

- Customizable in almost every aspect (facial features, body shape, etc.) So right off the bat, that eliminates almost every race listed; Tengu, Hylek, Skritt, etc. If Anet didn’t spend time making each one of X race dramatically different from one another, it isn’t likely to become a playable race.

- Capital cities and surrounding areas. I understand that there is some room on the map for a race to establish it’s capital, but after all that plus lore and all the other good stuff, there probably won’t be enough room to establish 1-10 zones, 10-25 zones, and so on and so forth. Unless people are fine with only having 2-3 zones to level the new race, this is probably not going to stick.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/thumb/e/e6/Tengu_concept_art.jpg/800px-Tengu_concept_art.jpg You were saying about tengu?

fixed

And this would be so awesome.

You guys are forgetting one thing: ANet clearly stated pre-release that Tengu was being designed as a playable race ( their captial also created in the DoW, next to LA ), models of weapons and armours fitted, but in the end, they decided to release only the races we have now.

So, I’m pretty sure that once they finally relase a new race ( hope so!!! ), it will definitely be the Tengu.

If. If my friend.

Oh also: about the Mursaat… :p

Sirendor.1394:

Oh also: about the Mursaat… :p

They’re still entirely evil, and we’re playing the good guys. that wouldn’t work out too well.

And on a side not to this thread, I’d like to mention this about the dwarves again. Anet has said before they don’t want dwarves and elves to be prevalent, sure they could write something to reverse it, but it’s not too likely they will.

Prophet.6257:

The Charr lost Ascalon. The Charr took it back in part. Humans ruled all of Tyria. Humans lost power and have been pushed back. The Sylvari didn’t exist. Now they do. The Elder Dragons were asleep. Now they are awake. The Jade Sea was solidified. Now it’s not. LA was part of Kryta. Now it’s an independent state. The dwarfs being turned to stone and then being able to come back to “life” (flesh) is a plot twist and absolutely an acceptable one.

Tyria is full of magic and technology. I’m sure the dwarfs being turned to stone can be overcome as far as lore goes.

1.) The dragons drain the magic from them forcing them back into flesh and blood.
2.) The asura build a device to reverse the effects of the Rite of the Great Dwarf.
3.) The Great Dwarf calls them back to Anvil Rock to be “reformed” into flesh.
4.) The Great Dwarf creates new dwarfs on Anvil Rock.
5.) The Durmand Priory find ancient artifacts that if combined have the ability the change them back.
6.) etc, etc, etc…

I’m sure ANet hasa pretty good staff on hand that could figure something even better out. As far a lore goes ANYTHING is possible. It doesn’t “break lore” or go against the universes rules. In Tyria things change all the time. Nothing is forever.

All of the above bolded text had reasons that make sence. The Charr were at war with Ascalon, they won using magics given to them by Abbadon, a human god. The Sylvari were created from the combination of a Centaur exile wanting to end the war with the humans and failed, retreating to a secluded area, and a human who had stumbled across strange seeds. The pale tree was planted on the grave of a human. The Elder Dragons had attempted an Extinction level event and nearly won but were pushed back by the ancient races, now they have returned and seek to try again. The Jade sea was frozen by a backlash of energy released when Shiro Tagachi was slain.

Dwarves were turned to stone in an event similar to the numerous mythological/theological “End Times” events. They essentially went to their final war. If Anet were to just turn around and say “Alright boys we are done here lets head back.” it would break the whole concept behind their sacrifice. If they did it would be a deus ex machina scenario and they would lose a lot of hard built lore. They have also stated dwarves will not be playable because they are way over done. They will most likely stay as a background character for when we go engage Primordus.

Centaurs. I have a $100 to hand ArenaNet no questions asked for playable centaurs.

Most boots already work with digitigrade bodytypes (the Charr). If the pants have to just vanish to save the armor designers’ sanity, so be it. The existing hit box works. Their combat animations are largely in place already and they have a couple unique animations that can be used for racial skills. (And before anyone says it, horses are quite capable swimmers.) Racial unique cosmetic feature could be body-painting.

The centaurs are loosing their war against humanity and they are as threatened by the Elder Dragons as anyone. Lets see some tribes that want to put aside their spears and axes long enough to talk.

Skritt. …………………………

DiazKincade.2891:

Dwarves were turned to stone in an event similar to the numerous mythological/theological “End Times” events. They essentially went to their final war. If Anet were to just turn around and say “Alright boys we are done here lets head back.” it would break the whole concept behind their sacrifice. If they did it would be a deus ex machina scenario and they would lose a lot of hard built lore. They have also stated dwarves will not be playable because they are way over done. They will most likely stay as a background character for when we go engage Primordus.

Are Dwarves going to be a playable race? Most likely not.
However I argue against posters stating that it would be impossible, as nothing is impossible in fantasy fiction. Improbable, yes. Impossible, no. The likelihood of them being playable at any time rests more on whether ArenaNet/NCsoft would want them. Though you’ve said they don’t want them, and I believe you, I don’t believe them anymore. They’ve gone back on their word so many times I don’t think they know what they want.

Just because we can’t come up with a creative reason as to why or how dwarves could come back into the GW universe, doesn’t mean there isn’t one. “End times”, sure. “Dead”, sure. “Great Dwarf”, sure.

With that said – Rebirth is a common theme in fantasy fiction, not exclusive to the phoenix.

Nike.2631:

Centaurs. I have a $100 to hand ArenaNet no questions asked for playable centaurs.

Most boots already work with digitigrade bodytypes (the Charr). If the pants have to just vanish to save the armor designers’ sanity, so be it. The existing hit box works. Their combat animations are largely in place already and they have a couple unique animations that can be used for racial skills. (And before anyone says it, horses are quite capable swimmers.) Racial unique cosmetic feature could be body-painting.

The centaurs are loosing their war against humanity and they are as threatened by the Elder Dragons as anyone. Lets see some tribes that want to put aside their spears and axes long enough to talk.

i’ve been playing thru gw1 (my first time; doing it mainly for hall of monument stuff for gw2) and i recently got the hero zhed shadowhoof. i made him full earth attributed like how the centaur casters are in gw2 and it made me really wanna play a centaur now lol.

I made my Zhed water-based, based on his default skills. I’m still rather sad that we didn’t get a 4th Ele Hero that I could make my Earth Hero.

Azhure.1857:

The more I think about it, the more I’d like Centaur the most.

How do you imagine that happening with the current situation in Kryta? The Charr at least were aware of the need to cooperate to have a fighting chance.

Conncept.7638:

Players said similar things about Charr, Norn, and Asura from GW1.

They are still not playable races in GW1.

My personal favorite would be the centaurs. No other game has had them, and they could have some awesome animations.

Absolutely, I’d buy a slot for a Centaur PC, but the current situation does not leave room for the Centaurs as a playable race, as it would involve them being allied with the other playable races against the dragons.
An alliance with the Centaur would turn the human personal story upside down, but it could be some dramatic Living Story.

I would replace most of my characters with tengu if I could.

Centaurs.. jumping puzzles..

OH GOD

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Centaurs.. jumping puzzles..

OH GOD

Challenge accepted?

frans.8092:

Absolutely, I’d buy a slot for a Centaur PC, but the current situation does not leave room for the Centaurs as a playable race, as it would involve them being allied with the other playable races against the dragons.
An alliance with the Centaur would turn the human personal story upside down, but it could be some dramatic Living Story.

I would imagine that when/if they release an expansion towards Elona, that is when playing Centaur would have the greatest likelihood.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Centaurs.. jumping puzzles..

OH GOD

Oh good, I wasn’t the only one thinking that. >.>

Largos, Mursaat….we need some grit added to this game as far as races go, well beyond Charr.

Azhure.1857:

DiazKincade.2891:

Dwarves were turned to stone in an event similar to the numerous mythological/theological “End Times” events. They essentially went to their final war. If Anet were to just turn around and say “Alright boys we are done here lets head back.” it would break the whole concept behind their sacrifice. If they did it would be a deus ex machina scenario and they would lose a lot of hard built lore. They have also stated dwarves will not be playable because they are way over done. They will most likely stay as a background character for when we go engage Primordus.

Are Dwarves going to be a playable race? Most likely not.
However I argue against posters stating that it would be impossible, as nothing is impossible in fantasy fiction. Improbable, yes. Impossible, no. The likelihood of them being playable at any time rests more on whether ArenaNet/NCsoft would want them. Though you’ve said they don’t want them, and I believe you, I don’t believe them anymore. They’ve gone back on their word so many times I don’t think they know what they want.

Just because we can’t come up with a creative reason as to why or how dwarves could come back into the GW universe, doesn’t mean there isn’t one. “End times”, sure. “Dead”, sure. “Great Dwarf”, sure.

With that said – Rebirth is a common theme in fantasy fiction, not exclusive to the phoenix.

Agreed.

I’m not expecting dwarfs anytime soon (if ever) but it is well within ANets ability and general fantasy reason to have the dwarfs return as a playable race. Nothing is ever permanent in a fantasy world. Things may be unlikely and not what certain players/readers/viewers/etc want but that doesn’t disqualify them. In fact I would say it makes them a bigger surprise and adds more gripping lore.

largos, i don’t care about people saying its out of the lore they are the only cool race, also i didn’t read anything of the story and i also don’t care.

I don’t get why so many people want Largos. Largos would be a terrible idea.

Not because of the whole ‘They would lose all the mystery reason’.
More for the ’They’re primarily an underwater race, so their city and all their zone areas should be underwater zones.’

Because we all know what an awesome job that ANet did with underwater combat.

None, I just want a new class, weapons and skills.

centaurs (white, normal ones), krait, skritt quaggan….all the fun races..they should make a fun races pack…

Dakota.4591:

I don’t get why so many people want Largos. Largos would be a terrible idea.

Not because of the whole ‘They would lose all the mystery reason’.
More for the ’They’re primarily an underwater race, so their city and all their zone areas should be underwater zones.’

Because we all know what an awesome job that ANet did with underwater combat.

…Better than every other MMO I’ve seen?

It’s not fantastic, and the differences in class utility underwater are terribly huge gaps, but for raw combat’s sake, it’s actually decent.

It still doesn’t make me want to put up with it for extended periods of time. So, no. No to kitten whales and Seadrow.

wolfie.7296:

centaurs (white, normal ones), krait, skritt quaggan….all the fun races..they should make a fun races pack…

White normal ones…

lol

Seriously though I would like a fun race pack. I would pay some gems to build a unique racial character.

Prophet.6257:

Agreed.

I’m not expecting dwarfs anytime soon (if ever) but it is well within ANets ability and general fantasy reason to have the dwarfs return as a playable race. Nothing is ever permanent in a fantasy world. Things may be unlikely and not what certain players/readers/viewers/etc want but that doesn’t disqualify them. In fact I would say it makes them a bigger surprise and adds more gripping lore.

No offence but what you guys are talking about is often considered bad story writing. When something is stated as being permanent in any genre of story writing and then the writer falls back on that its basically the same as a lie. It also as I stated normally comes about as a Deus ex Machina, God of the Machine. In other words it takes an act of god to revert something. When a story uses such a mechanic the story always seems to fall flat and ends in an anticlimactic way.

Permanence in a fantasy makes for a better story. And yes permanence is permanent in fantasy story’s. The ones that go against that have always felt anticlimactic and dull.

Kodan, absolutely. I love their lore and would love to explore it more. It’d be cool to have more of the mountainous areas opened as a result of their introduction.

Hylek would also be cool – it’d be a nice throwback to the Froglok from Everquest.

DiazKincade.2891:

Prophet.6257:

Agreed.

I’m not expecting dwarfs anytime soon (if ever) but it is well within ANets ability and general fantasy reason to have the dwarfs return as a playable race. Nothing is ever permanent in a fantasy world. Things may be unlikely and not what certain players/readers/viewers/etc want but that doesn’t disqualify them. In fact I would say it makes them a bigger surprise and adds more gripping lore.

No offence but what you guys are talking about is often considered bad story writing. When something is stated as being permanent in any genre of story writing and then the writer falls back on that its basically the same as a lie. It also as I stated normally comes about as a Deus ex Machina, God of the Machine. In other words it takes an act of god to revert something. When a story uses such a mechanic the story always seems to fall flat and ends in an anticlimactic way.

Permanence in a fantasy makes for a better story. And yes permanence is permanent in fantasy story’s. The ones that go against that have always felt anticlimactic and dull.

What are you talking about?

Surprising the audience, come backs, plot twist, etc. make stories exciting. Right when everything seems lost and the audience thinks it’s all over then BAM! Something unexpected and against what “should happen” does. That makes a story worth experiencing. It’s not about being predictable and everything going the way it should or the way people expect it to. Predictability is bad story telling.

But honestly, it has nothing to do with good or bad writing. You can kill off characters or have a surprise return. Both ways are perfectly inline with creating a good story.

When a decision is made by ANet it will be because it’s what they wanted to happen or because it’s what the community demanded. They have stated time and again they are not chained by past decision and are very willing to redo whatever needs to be redone.

DiazKincade.2891:

Prophet.6257:

The Charr lost Ascalon. The Charr took it back in part. Humans ruled all of Tyria. Humans lost power and have been pushed back. The Sylvari didn’t exist. Now they do. The Elder Dragons were asleep. Now they are awake. The Jade Sea was solidified. Now it’s not. LA was part of Kryta. Now it’s an independent state. The dwarfs being turned to stone and then being able to come back to “life” (flesh) is a plot twist and absolutely an acceptable one.

Tyria is full of magic and technology. I’m sure the dwarfs being turned to stone can be overcome as far as lore goes.

1.) The dragons drain the magic from them forcing them back into flesh and blood.
2.) The asura build a device to reverse the effects of the Rite of the Great Dwarf.
3.) The Great Dwarf calls them back to Anvil Rock to be “reformed” into flesh.
4.) The Great Dwarf creates new dwarfs on Anvil Rock.
5.) The Durmand Priory find ancient artifacts that if combined have the ability the change them back.
6.) etc, etc, etc…

I’m sure ANet hasa pretty good staff on hand that could figure something even better out. As far a lore goes ANYTHING is possible. It doesn’t “break lore” or go against the universes rules. In Tyria things change all the time. Nothing is forever.

All of the above bolded text had reasons that make sence. The Charr were at war with Ascalon, they won using magics given to them by Abbadon, a human god. The Sylvari were created from the combination of a Centaur exile wanting to end the war with the humans and failed, retreating to a secluded area, and a human who had stumbled across strange seeds. The pale tree was planted on the grave of a human. The Elder Dragons had attempted an Extinction level event and nearly won but were pushed back by the ancient races, now they have returned and seek to try again. The Jade sea was frozen by a backlash of energy released when Shiro Tagachi was slain.

Dwarves were turned to stone in an event similar to the numerous mythological/theological “End Times” events. They essentially went to their final war. If Anet were to just turn around and say “Alright boys we are done here lets head back.” it would break the whole concept behind their sacrifice. If they did it would be a deus ex machina scenario and they would lose a lot of hard built lore. They have also stated dwarves will not be playable because they are way over done. They will most likely stay as a background character for when we go engage Primordus.

Just an FYI – their are rumors that the Jade Sea is desolidifying – We do not know if that is true since Cantha closed itself off from the rest of the world when the Elder Dragons resurfaced.

As far as the Dwarves are concerned – "After the Transformation of the Dwarves, dwarven biology changed significantly. The race became creatures of undying stone, linked together by a kind of collective consciousness that gives them purpose. They are biologically immortal, meaning they do not die of old age, but can still be killed by other means. As creatures of stone they can no longer breed, and so it is no longer possible for any more dwarves to be born. "

AND

“The fight between the dwarves and the Destroyers consumed the dwarven race. Few lived to return to the surface and tell the tale of their victory—and those who did had been irrevocably altered. No longer made of flesh and bone, no blood pumped through their veins. Instead, they found their bodies composed entirely of stone surrounding nothing but cold, hard earth.

No longer interested in maintaining their solidarity as a race, these last dwarves scattered across Tyria, finding battles to fight in the deep caverns or making new homes in far-flung hills, ever-watching the borders where caverns emerge into the surface world. Those few individuals who can rightfully claim to have met a dwarf in their lifetime are rare, and all speak of the strange, driven passion that consumes these few survivors. "

All from GW2WIKI – meaning there are not enough Dwarves to have a Race – they are extinct.

Heh, good or bad writing isn’t in the “what” but the “how.”

If the dwarves come back by some off-screen machination, it would feel cheap. If the dwarves came back via a player-included Living Story that spanned months of effort, leading to an epic final battle… I could accept that.

But then there’d be dwarves. Boring, short dwarves. We already have boring, tall dwarves. We call them Norn. =P

“Magister Ogden Stonehealer is the last remaining surface dwarf. Like all who have undergone the Rite of the Great Dwarf, he has been transformed into a creature with a single-minded dedication to the defeat of Primordus and its Elder Dragon kin, but rather than follow his brothers into battle in the Depths of Tyria, Ogden has stayed on the surface to aid the Durmand Priory and act as a compendium of lore on the Elder Dragons. As the last (known) dwarf, he is a constant target of the vengeful dredge.
In his former life, Ogden was a priest of the Great Dwarf, and an expert on the prophecies of the end times of the dwarves. When those prophecies came to pass, in 1078 AE, Ogden helped facilitate the Transformation of the Dwarves and was instrumental in the defeat of the Great Destroyer. Ogden did not initially undergo the Rite, although eventually all dwarves were made to—by force, if necessary.”

The Dredge are hunting the Dwarves into extinction – that is why they have Sonic Weapons, those weapons can break and kill a changed Dwarf.

Dakota.4591:

I don’t get why so many people want Largos. Largos would be a terrible idea.

Not because of the whole ‘They would lose all the mystery reason’.
More for the ’They’re primarily an underwater race, so their city and all their zone areas should be underwater zones.’

Because we all know what an awesome job that ANet did with underwater combat.

I kind of envision the actual Largos city as being some huge underwater cave, or underwater domes or something.

Prophet.6257:

What are you talking about?

Surprising the audience, come backs, plot twist, etc. make stories exciting. Right when everything seems lost and the audience thinks it’s all over then BAM! Something unexpected and against what “should happen” does. That makes a story worth experiencing. It’s not about being predictable and everything going the way it should or the way people expect it to. Predictability is bad story telling.

But honestly, it has nothing to do with good or bad writing. You can kill off characters or have a surprise return. Both ways are perfectly inline with creating a good story.

When a decision is made by ANet it will be because it’s what they wanted to happen or because it’s what the community demanded. They have stated time and again they are not chained by past decision and are very willing to redo whatever needs to be redone.

Belittling a major sacrifice that effected an entire race is bad story telling. It makes their sacrifice seem unimportant. Again we have people jumping to extremes here. I’m talking specifically about major sacrificial events and the whole “They got better”. Any instance in which a major sacrifice was made and then undone in a story is bad story telling. Deus ex Machina is rarely used to just undo a minor event. (With the exception being comedic movies/shows)

A more clearer description is thus-"Deus ex Machina is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability or object. Depending on how it is done, it can be intended to move the story forward when the writer has “painted themself into a corner” and sees no other way out, to surprise the audience, to bring the tale to a happy ending, or as a comedic device."

Permanence creates deeper meaning to the actions of the characters. If it can all be cleared with a wave of the hand it makes the whole story feel more childish. As in designed for kids to “always have a happy ending”. Given most stories as of late strive for that whole “happy ending” it is easy to predict the outcome of those stories. As you stated Predictability is bad story telling.

Take Chronicles of Ridkitten for example, the last fight. Kyra (Alexa Davalos) sacrificed herself to help Ridkitten (Vin Diesel). if she somehow miraculously got better from a fatal injury and created that happy ending we see so commonly in stories nowadays that scene’s meaning would not have been the same. These scene is not to far away from a pyrrhic victory as easily evident on Ridkitten’s face as the scene ends. This is not a happy ending but it is an end to that story. These types of scenes are very memorable in my opinion as it makes you question “what would have happened if they did things differently”. Happy endings very rarely spark that line of thought. They usually end with “Aww how nice” and that’s it. (on a side note I should have guessed the kitten filter would mess with his name >.>…oh well. He will now be known as Ridkitten. And that is rather amusing. lol )

Dusty Moon.4382:

All from GW2WIKI – meaning there are not enough Dwarves to have a Race – they are extinct.

I know this. You know this. But people are still saying “Well maybe they can come back.” What people don’t seem to realize is what I’ve been saying. They went to their final battle. The ones that came back are far and few between and incapable of creating new life. Their race is done. They sacrificed themselves to stop an enemy. In part it worked. For awhile. However we now have destroyers popping up in several places. So they only stemmed the tide.

For reference the first paragraph on the gw2 wiki states thus-“The dwarves are a near-extinct race of short, stout humanoids made of stone, that once inhabited the Shiverpeak Mountains. They act as guardians of the Depths of Tyria, fighting the minions of Primordus and denying them passage to the surface. As such, few are ever seen.”

Note the bolded section. Near extinct does not make playable races. Dwarves are done.

Tengu and Kodan.

Rauderi.8706:

Heh, good or bad writing isn’t in the “what” but the “how.”

If the dwarves come back by some off-screen machination, it would feel cheap. If the dwarves came back via a player-included Living Story that spanned months of effort, leading to an epic final battle… I could accept that.

But then there’d be dwarves. Boring, short dwarves. We already have boring, tall dwarves. We call them Norn. =P

I would accept that too.

Also, on the point of Dwarves being a poor choice because they are considered “overdone”. – I’ll take your overdone Dwarf race and raise it with the Human race. Hell…. I’ll go all in with the original concept of Dragons and/or an Undead army for enemies.

Azhure.1857:

Also, on the point of Dwarves being a poor choice because they are considered “overdone”. – I’ll take your overdone Dwarf race and raise it with the Human race. Hell…. I’ll go all in with the original concept of Dragons and/or an Undead army for enemies.

Typically if you don’t have “Human” as a staple race you lose alot of potential players as they like to see something they are familiar with. Also the alternate options to this tend to bring on a lot of hate. (Anything from “oh not more uppity elves” to “great now we got furrys”) Humans are typically seen as a baseline because humans are also easy to model, animate, texture, and design gear for. Especially in an MMO scene since they usually need to have alot of options to keep people happy. Does it make it right? debatable. Its just more Cost/Time efficient. Humans are also common across many genres where dwarves typically remain in the fantasy genre.

To the whole “common undead as enemy” look at the countless zombie survival games and ask why we have zombies and undead so common.

Prophet.6257:

DiazKincade.2891:

Prophet.6257:

Agreed.

I’m not expecting dwarfs anytime soon (if ever) but it is well within ANets ability and general fantasy reason to have the dwarfs return as a playable race. Nothing is ever permanent in a fantasy world. Things may be unlikely and not what certain players/readers/viewers/etc want but that doesn’t disqualify them. In fact I would say it makes them a bigger surprise and adds more gripping lore.

No offence but what you guys are talking about is often considered bad story writing. When something is stated as being permanent in any genre of story writing and then the writer falls back on that its basically the same as a lie. It also as I stated normally comes about as a Deus ex Machina, God of the Machine. In other words it takes an act of god to revert something. When a story uses such a mechanic the story always seems to fall flat and ends in an anticlimactic way.

Permanence in a fantasy makes for a better story. And yes permanence is permanent in fantasy story’s. The ones that go against that have always felt anticlimactic and dull.

What are you talking about?

Surprising the audience, come backs, plot twist, etc. make stories exciting.

I suppose every retcon could be considered a plot twist. But cheap tricks don’t fool me into buying a cheap trick as an exciting story element. Bringing dwarves back doesn’t fall into the category exciting plot twist, but into the bad story writing category. Sorry, maybe I am to demanding, but that is just what it would be to me.