Guild Wars 2

VOLKON.1290:

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

That’s the point, these fights are anything but a mindless zergfest. Mindless zergs fail miserably.

Anything with hundreds of random people is a mindless zerg, with or without a trinity.

The fact that anything that requires any ounce of thought is completed falls back to the infinite monkey theorum.

Spoken with the experience of someone that hasn’t succeeded in these fights I guess? These are anything but mindless zergs. The Wurm kills, for example, are highly organized events. The Marionette less so due to familiarity, but again, you can’t zerg it. Even Tequatl is far from a zerg due to so many coordinated things that need to be done together in order to succeed.

Yeah, I’m basing it on Tequatl from release. Has it changed in the meantime? I have so little interest in PvE, especially the open world hogwash, that I haven’t even bothered checking out the “new” meaningless fights.

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

That’s the point, these fights are anything but a mindless zergfest. Mindless zergs fail miserably.

Anything with hundreds of random people is a mindless zerg, with or without a trinity.

The fact that anything that requires any ounce of thought is completed falls back to the infinite monkey theorum.

Spoken with the experience of someone that hasn’t succeeded in these fights I guess? These are anything but mindless zergs. The Wurm kills, for example, are highly organized events. The Marionette less so due to familiarity, but again, you can’t zerg it. Even Tequatl is far from a zerg due to so many coordinated things that need to be done together in order to succeed.

Yeah, I’m basing it on Tequatl from release. Has it changed in the meantime? I have so little interest in PvE, especially the open world hogwash, that I haven’t even bothered checking out the “new” meaningless fights.

Oh man, it’s been fully revamped and is a completely different fight. You’ll want to be on TS for this one now, I highly recommend checking it out at least once.

VOLKON.1290:

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

That’s the point, these fights are anything but a mindless zergfest. Mindless zergs fail miserably.

Anything with hundreds of random people is a mindless zerg, with or without a trinity.

The fact that anything that requires any ounce of thought is completed falls back to the infinite monkey theorum.

Spoken with the experience of someone that hasn’t succeeded in these fights I guess? These are anything but mindless zergs. The Wurm kills, for example, are highly organized events. The Marionette less so due to familiarity, but again, you can’t zerg it. Even Tequatl is far from a zerg due to so many coordinated things that need to be done together in order to succeed.

Yeah, I’m basing it on Tequatl from release. Has it changed in the meantime? I have so little interest in PvE, especially the open world hogwash, that I haven’t even bothered checking out the “new” meaningless fights.

Oh man, it’s been fully revamped and is a completely different fight. You’ll want to be on TS for this one now, I highly recommend checking it out at least once.

Meh, too many reasons to not care.

I was excited for a second, then I realized the amount of work it takes to get ascended gear, and I lost all interest again.

Yay vertical progression.

Apathy.6430:

Meh, too many reasons to not care.

I was excited for a second, then I realized the amount of work it takes to get ascended gear, and I lost all interest again.

Yay vertical progression.

Don’t sweat the ascended stuff. It’s there if you want it but nothing requires you to have it. There’s no content you can’t access or do without it. I’m just taking my time getting mine, finally have the jacket, but most days I don’t even put any effort into it.

Still, I recommend checking out the new fights if you haven’t. You just may surprise yourself and find you’re having fun again.

I’m also on a dead server, and not sure I want to spend 30 bucks just to try out something I’m not entirely interested in.

Apathy.6430:

I’m also on a dead server, and not sure I want to spend 30 bucks just to try out something I’m not entirely interested in.

Guesting is free.

VOLKON.1290:

Apathy.6430:

I’m also on a dead server, and not sure I want to spend 30 bucks just to try out something I’m not entirely interested in.

Guesting is free.

Which US server isn’t awful?

Gate of Madness apparently has “very high” population, but there’s never anybody doing anything.

GLF Healer
GLF Healer
GLF TANK
GLF TANK AND HEALER HAVE 3 DEEPZ ALREADY!!!!
GLF Healer

Now I’m just making up excuses.

I’m really just not that interested in open world stuff. It’s always been awful in every game and has been awful in every experience with it in GW2. I can’t possibly imagine how standing around hundreds of faceless people doing the exact same thing that I’m doing could be fun.

uhohhotdog.3598:

GLF 3 MORE ZERK ONLY ALREADY HAVE 2 ZERK WARS
GLF 3 MORE ZERK ONLY ALREADY HAVE 2 ZERK WARS
GLF 3 MORE ZERK ONLY ALREADY HAVE 2 ZERK WARS
GLF 3 MORE ZERK ONLY ALREADY HAVE 2 ZERK WARS
GLF 3 MORE ZERK ONLY ALREADY HAVE 2 ZERK WARS

Yep, seems about right. Much improved.

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

Apathy.6430:

I’m also on a dead server, and not sure I want to spend 30 bucks just to try out something I’m not entirely interested in.

Guesting is free.

Which US server isn’t awful?

Gate of Madness apparently has “very high” population, but there’s never anybody doing anything.

From personal experience I can say Jade Quarry has a very active population, and apparently Black Gate is also highly populated. I can’t say for others, haven’t been there.

Just because you can’t imagine something doesn’t mean someone else hasn’t or that it doesn’t exist.

VOLKON.1290:

Just because you can’t imagine something doesn’t mean someone else hasn’t or that it doesn’t exist.

Of course, I’m not saying open world stuff shouldn’t exist.

I’m just hella bummed that they spent the last year focusing solely on that, and haven’t touched the dungeons that are in a sorry state.

Honestly, there’s just a lot of things I’m hella bummed about regards this game, and I’m not sure I’ll ever really be happy with it.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I just generally don’t like other people. I like the cooperative nature and teamwork in dungeons (in games in general, not the atrocity present in this game), but I don’t really like other people…they kind of sap the fun out of everything. It’s always rush rush rush to get the tokens, skip this group skip that group stack here so we can kill boss faster hurry hurry hurry zerk only.

GW1 was just amazing…could play with people that I actually wanted to play with, or could opt to just have heroes+hench. Always had that “teamwork and cooperation” feeling even if it’s clearing some random zone in Cantha. In Guild Wars 2…regular open world is bland and boring, no real thought just click an enemy and wait until it dies then do it again…dungeons are rush rush rush zerker only hurry hurry tokens tokens.

But hey, at least I’m enjoying yoloPvP.

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

Just because you can’t imagine something doesn’t mean someone else hasn’t or that it doesn’t exist.

Of course, I’m not saying open world stuff shouldn’t exist.

I’m just hella bummed that they spent the last year focusing solely on that, and haven’t touched the dungeons that are in a sorry state.

Most of all the advertising of GW2 before release was about the open world and events. They never said much about that it would be another dungeon grinder where you have to be in brown holes under the earth for 99% of the time.

Beldin.5498:

Most of all the advertising of GW2 before release was about the open world and events. They never said much about that it would be another dungeon grinder where you have to be in brown holes under the earth for 99% of the time.

They should have called it something other than Guild Wars, honestly.

The only real resemblance it has to it’s predecessor is reusing names and brand awareness.

Apathy.6430:

Beldin.5498:

Most of all the advertising of GW2 before release was about the open world and events. They never said much about that it would be another dungeon grinder where you have to be in brown holes under the earth for 99% of the time.

They should have called it something other than Guild Wars, honestly.

The only real resemblance it has to it’s predecessor is reusing names and brand awareness.

Don’t really care about that. However i wouldn’t have played it at all if it would have been like GW1, and i needed to convince a lot of friends that it is different because a lot of people simply didn’t liked Gw1 at all.

Apathy.6430:

uhohhotdog.3598:

GLF 3 MORE ZERK ONLY ALREADY HAVE 2 ZERK WARS
GLF 3 MORE ZERK ONLY ALREADY HAVE 2 ZERK WARS
GLF 3 MORE ZERK ONLY ALREADY HAVE 2 ZERK WARS
GLF 3 MORE ZERK ONLY ALREADY HAVE 2 ZERK WARS
GLF 3 MORE ZERK ONLY ALREADY HAVE 2 ZERK WARS

Yep, seems about right. Much improved.

Except zerker is neither a build nor archetype, it’s just a group of passive stats that tell you how much you sacrifice for an offense. Your build comes from traits, utility skills and weapons choices.

Beldin.5498:

Apathy.6430:

Beldin.5498:

Most of all the advertising of GW2 before release was about the open world and events. They never said much about that it would be another dungeon grinder where you have to be in brown holes under the earth for 99% of the time.

They should have called it something other than Guild Wars, honestly.

The only real resemblance it has to it’s predecessor is reusing names and brand awareness.

Don’t really care about that. However i wouldn’t have played it at all if it would have been like GW1, and i needed to convince a lot of friends that it is different because a lot of people simply didn’t liked Gw1 at all.

That’s so cool.

And all of those kind of people will be gone as soon as the next big MMO comes out, and actual fans of the IP will be left with this husk of a game.

Apathy.6430:

VOLKON.1290:

Just because you can’t imagine something doesn’t mean someone else hasn’t or that it doesn’t exist.

Of course, I’m not saying open world stuff shouldn’t exist.

I’m just hella bummed that they spent the last year focusing solely on that, and haven’t touched the dungeons that are in a sorry state.

Honestly, there’s just a lot of things I’m hella bummed about regards this game, and I’m not sure I’ll ever really be happy with it.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I just generally don’t like other people. I like the cooperative nature and teamwork in dungeons (in games in general, not the atrocity present in this game), but I don’t really like other people…they kind of sap the fun out of everything. It’s always rush rush rush to get the tokens, skip this group skip that group stack here so we can kill boss faster hurry hurry hurry zerk only.

GW1 was just amazing…could play with people that I actually wanted to play with, or could opt to just have heroes+hench. Always had that “teamwork and cooperation” feeling even if it’s clearing some random zone in Cantha. In Guild Wars 2…regular open world is bland and boring, no real thought just click an enemy and wait until it dies then do it again…dungeons are rush rush rush zerker only hurry hurry tokens tokens.

But hey, at least I’m enjoying yoloPvP.

Something we agree on. I hate the hurry-up attitudes many have with dungeons. I simply don’t care about the speed of the run and despise skipping content. Even in Fractal, like the Maw, I’d much rather prefer to do a full clear than rush to the boss for the loot. Maybe that’s one thing that I like a lot with the new fights, you can’t rush them.

Apathy.6430:

Harper.4173:

Also I’m glad that your " lfg experience " isn’t that bad – but it isn’t just marketing – I’ve personally gone through the " lfg monk / lfg tank " situation and don’t enjoy it one bit.

How about – to each his own?

Only really bad players in GW1 used “tanks”.

Honestly, GW1 was pretty much the perfect set up I’ve seen in an MMO. Damage builds had their place, support/disabling builds had their place, and healing was way more interactive than “spam big heals on tank” prevalent in most other MMOs. Plus, without there being a tank, everyone had to pay attention to what was going on.

And the part that made it even better? If you couldn’t find a healer, or damage, or whatever you needed…you could throw on a hero or hench and they would do an acceptable job (usually better than pugs).

Hell, you could even lone wolf pretty much the entire game. I did FoW hard mode with a group of 7…me plus six heroes.

You must not have played when permasins were a thing. Just saying.

Throwing in a healer or a hench is not an option in GW2. And neither is throwing in a pug since as we both know a hero or henc in GW1 was better than a pug.

Permasins were simply a big balance mistake. They allowed players to bypass most of the content, and farm all of their Destroyer weapons from Slavers Exile in record time, by redoing the Justiciar Thommas part of the dungeons, and skipping every mob along the way. They also caused the most annoying type of Underworld speedclears, where the permasins were the only ones getting all the loot basically, ugh.

To say that running a tank set up was bad in GW1 is kind of absurd. Several encounters in GW1 were specifically designed to be tanked, such as large portions of the Stygian Veil and all of the Aatxe in the Underworld. Most organized groups brought a tank of some sort for High End dungeons.

Then GW2 would just be another generic fantasy MMO with interesting art and story line. It may as well charge a subscription and not do any updates for 6 months. That’s what WoW clone lovers seem to like.

Apathy.6430:

Beldin.5498:

Apathy.6430:

Beldin.5498:

Most of all the advertising of GW2 before release was about the open world and events. They never said much about that it would be another dungeon grinder where you have to be in brown holes under the earth for 99% of the time.

They should have called it something other than Guild Wars, honestly.

The only real resemblance it has to it’s predecessor is reusing names and brand awareness.

Don’t really care about that. However i wouldn’t have played it at all if it would have been like GW1, and i needed to convince a lot of friends that it is different because a lot of people simply didn’t liked Gw1 at all.

That’s so cool.

And all of those kind of people will be gone as soon as the next big MMO comes out, and actual fans of the IP will be left with this husk of a game.

Not really .. a lot of people started GW2 because they disliked raiding and item spirals and play GW2 because it was different in that way.

The people that leave are maybe more of those old hardcore GW1 players that simply hate everything of GW2 because it is not like GW1.

Why would people want this game to be more like WoW when they can just play WoW since it’s the better game and has a lot more stuff that one can do. That’s my opinion.

I just find all of the diehard gw2 defenders so amusing sometimes. When you ask them why one should play this game over other games the two things they typically come up are: no sub fees and better graphics. So compelling.

Kantos.1730:

Then GW2 would just be another generic fantasy MMO with interesting art and story line. It may as well charge a subscription and not do any updates for 6 months. That’s what WoW clone lovers seem to like.

As opposed to rushed and ultimately forgettable biweekly updates that always seem to involve gem shop items designed to extract even more money from the playerbase?

I am gonna change the question a little bid and then answer it

“What would GW2 be like with more specific roles.”

Like the Wintersday Snowball Mayhem.

Now it’s up to you to decide what type of combat you prefer.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Kantos.1730:

Then GW2 would just be another generic fantasy MMO with interesting art and story line. It may as well charge a subscription and not do any updates for 6 months. That’s what WoW clone lovers seem to like.

As opposed to rushed and ultimately forgettable biweekly updates that always seem to involve gem shop items designed to extract even more money from the playerbase?

Bah, Your argument is non-sense. First, all cash shop items are designed to get money from customers. Second, there are few indicators of a ‘rush job’ in the updates in GW2, such as glitches. One could make an argument on the ‘forgettable-ness’ of the updates, but such would be purely subjective.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Why would people want this game to be more like WoW when they can just play WoW since it’s the better game and has a lot more stuff that one can do. That’s my opinion.

Why would people want a roleplaying game to have better defined roles, more inter-class dependency, and more depth in the combat?

Uh. . . did someone just say you were bad if you used tanks in GW1?

How the crap do you do The Deep without tanks?

:| I see you guys are still looking for a tank and a healer in this thread… best of luck…

Zero Day.2594:

:| I see you guys are still looking for a tank and a healer in this thread… best of luck…

Some people already said they want roles, not the “Holy trinity” (tank/dps/healer), you CAN be more imaginative and still have roles… People just ignore those people and keep insulting the tank healer system. >_>: Hardheads.

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

:| I see you guys are still looking for a tank and a healer in this thread… best of luck…

Some people already said they want roles, not the “Holy trinity” (tank/dps/healer), you CAN be more imaginative and still have roles… People just ignore those people and keep insulting the tank healer system. >_>: Hardheads.

Well the OP does refer to the classic holy trinity. Arguably anything else is off topic.

TooBz.3065:

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

:| I see you guys are still looking for a tank and a healer in this thread… best of luck…

Some people already said they want roles, not the “Holy trinity” (tank/dps/healer), you CAN be more imaginative and still have roles… People just ignore those people and keep insulting the tank healer system. >_>: Hardheads.

Well the OP does refer to the classic holy trinity. Arguably anything else is off topic.

Not really, some say yes holy trinity, some say NO trinity, some say soft-trinity (roles). “Between” is a viable answer…

I like specialized classes, it encourage better teamplay, much better teamplay than what gw2 is having now.

gw2 is trying too hard; balancing the combative power between classes and attempt to realise their idea of trinity. if gw2 give up their pursue of esport and focus what is more important in gaming, gw2 might have matured better.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Permasins were simply a big balance mistake. They allowed players to bypass most of the content, and farm all of their Destroyer weapons from Slavers Exile in record time, by redoing the Justiciar Thommas part of the dungeons, and skipping every mob along the way. They also caused the most annoying type of Underworld speedclears, where the permasins were the only ones getting all the loot basically, ugh.

Indeed, permasins, pve skills, special pve consumables, and heroes massively watered down the pve…kinda like the derv and ele updates watered down the pvp. But I suppose that is what happens when you use a GW2 approach to balancing/adding content. Much appreciated..

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

To say that running a tank set up was bad in GW1 is kind of absurd. Several encounters in GW1 were specifically designed to be tanked, such as large portions of the Stygian Veil and all of the Aatxe in the Underworld. Most organized groups brought a tank of some sort for High End dungeons.

Permasin tank or actual warrior tank? The latter actually had to be good to get anywhere in elite zones, because body blocking or catching the aggro of a large mob isn’t always as simple as it seems, especially not without taunt skills and in open spaces.

Raine.1394:

Tru Reptile.6058:

The original GW made a great compromise between the holy trinity and the mess we currently have in GW2.

There was healing, but mitigating damage was more important than making red bars go up. There was tanking, but it involved body blocking and use of control skills. Oh, and support was actually worth a kitten . If you were a Necromancer in a melee oriented group you’d take things to boost your teammates damage such as Mark of Pain, Order of Pain, Barbs etc. Support in GW2 feels so generic and involves seemingly little to no thought.

Taunt skills are the main reason why I hate the holy trinity. I mean, MMO mob A.I is bad enough, yet developers feel the need to give players a tool to abuse it even further.

Just look at it from a boss perspective: You’d love nothing more than to strangle that squishy guy that’s keeping everyone alive, but you can’t because this heavily armored kitten in front of you keeps saying something about your mother.

It’s interesting that you take issue with the taunt. I like looking for analogues to something in the human experience and find only weak analogues to various combat strategies such as luring an opponent into a desired position. Yeah, I would be happy to see the tank go.

My only complaint is that the absence of any meaningful role beyond DPS leads to a mind-numbing stack and wail monotony, and, of course, the zerker meta. My experience of the trinity is one of pretty intricate strategy and execution. The only scripted aspect to it was that it was complex enough that you needed things like interrupt lists. GW2 combat is actually rather dull in comparison. I don’t feel the trinity is necessary, but I think we need meaningful combat roles beyond DPS. And, I don’t even think it needs to be set roles—it could just as easily be what you described with the Necro providing something unique to the team given it’s composition. But it needs to be meaningful. Everything right now that comes under support and control feels insignificant in PvE.

My issue with taunt is that it kills any illusion the enemy is intelligent at all.

I’ll keep banging way on this guy, even though he’s not taking damage, and even though I’m a super intelligent demon from the abyss, I have no idea healers exist or someone is keeping him alive.

It’s just too contrived for my taste.

Vayne.8563:

My issue with taunt is that it kills any illusion the enemy is intelligent at all.

I’ll keep banging way on this guy, even though he’s not taking damage, and even though I’m a super intelligent demon from the abyss, I have no idea healers exist or someone is keeping him alive.

It’s just too contrived for my taste.

I always have to laugh when people in a trinity game say they want a better Monster AI since i know that they don’t really want that because any AI would kill the trinity.
If a monster is intelligent it would ignore the low damage tank, and first kill maybe the healer or the squishy DDs.

GLF Zerkers / Ping Gear or Kick

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

My issue with taunt is that it kills any illusion the enemy is intelligent at all.

I’ll keep banging way on this guy, even though he’s not taking damage, and even though I’m a super intelligent demon from the abyss, I have no idea healers exist or someone is keeping him alive.

It’s just too contrived for my taste.

I always have to laugh when people in a trinity game say they want a better Monster AI since i know that they don’t really want that because any AI would kill the trinity.
If a monster is intelligent it would ignore the low damage tank, and first kill maybe the healer or the squishy DDs.

I’d very much disagree. Taunting works on human players all of the time. I played WoW for years and in every single BG I played I’d often simply /laugh at someone (usually rogues) when my ret pally was OP’d and smashing anything that moved. 9 times out 10 that player made a bee line for me every single time in sheer frustration and annoyance over a simple emote. Out healers loved it. The other 10% didn’t fall for it but boy does emote tanking work. Its a taunt. It works on human players a lot. I’ve had players log out, log into my realm a some level 1 character and abuse me in typical WoW fashion. “F%$$%#g scrub, blah, blah, blah, rage, rage” all over a /laugh or a /mock. Music to my ears!

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

My issue with taunt is that it kills any illusion the enemy is intelligent at all.

I’ll keep banging way on this guy, even though he’s not taking damage, and even though I’m a super intelligent demon from the abyss, I have no idea healers exist or someone is keeping him alive.

It’s just too contrived for my taste.

I always have to laugh when people in a trinity game say they want a better Monster AI since i know that they don’t really want that because any AI would kill the trinity.
If a monster is intelligent it would ignore the low damage tank, and first kill maybe the healer or the squishy DDs.

This is why I want the GW2 trinity that would have been from the start had the lines not got entirely blurred. I hate the idea of tanks, it doesn’t feel right. But if the game was designed like this, the trying gw2 ALMOST HAD:

Dps – dps are primary damage dealers. Their secondary roll is to stun/daze/interrupt large mob power attacks. Side note: Defiance would go away and be replaced with a system of always being immune to stuns/dazes but when charging telegraphed unblockable/ unevadable they become “exposed” and so dps would have the roll of preventing power attacks that could essentially wipe parties in harder content by predictable but well-timed use of CCs.

Enfeeblers – condition users. Their primary use is to support in damage by using and spreading dots and using utility debuffs such as poison, weakness, snares and chills to weaken its enemy. A new primary stat would be added (Lingering) for condition duration. They’d focus on condi damage, lingering and toughness.

Support – most of the mass amount of self boons would go away and supporters would have the best access to boon sharing, such as protection, high might stacks, fury etc. they’d support the dps rather than dps being able to keep max might stacks on themselves. A new primary stat (Will) gives boon duration. The major focus for support would be healing, toughness and will.

Then this would set up nicely for hybrids by using 2 different weapon types and mixing stats.

Judge Banks.9018:

Uh. . . did someone just say you were bad if you used tanks in GW1?

How the crap do you do The Deep without tanks?

Or the Stygian Veil, or Slavers Exile, or the Underworld.

Salt.4621:

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

My issue with taunt is that it kills any illusion the enemy is intelligent at all.

I’ll keep banging way on this guy, even though he’s not taking damage, and even though I’m a super intelligent demon from the abyss, I have no idea healers exist or someone is keeping him alive.

It’s just too contrived for my taste.

I always have to laugh when people in a trinity game say they want a better Monster AI since i know that they don’t really want that because any AI would kill the trinity.
If a monster is intelligent it would ignore the low damage tank, and first kill maybe the healer or the squishy DDs.

I’d very much disagree. Taunting works on human players all of the time. I played WoW for years and in every single BG I played I’d often simply /laugh at someone (usually rogues) when my ret pally was OP’d and smashing anything that moved. 9 times out 10 that player made a bee line for me every single time in sheer frustration and annoyance over a simple emote. Out healers loved it. The other 10% didn’t fall for it but boy does emote tanking work. Its a taunt. It works on human players a lot. I’ve had players log out, log into my realm a some level 1 character and abuse me in typical WoW fashion. “F%$$%#g scrub, blah, blah, blah, rage, rage” all over a /laugh or a /mock. Music to my ears!

Im not really surprised that most WoW players also are in need of a better AI

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

My issue with taunt is that it kills any illusion the enemy is intelligent at all.

I’ll keep banging way on this guy, even though he’s not taking damage, and even though I’m a super intelligent demon from the abyss, I have no idea healers exist or someone is keeping him alive.

It’s just too contrived for my taste.

I always have to laugh when people in a trinity game say they want a better Monster AI since i know that they don’t really want that because any AI would kill the trinity.
If a monster is intelligent it would ignore the low damage tank, and first kill maybe the healer or the squishy DDs.

In GW 1 monsters often went for the healer or minion master first. I loved that.

ronpierce.2760:

This is why I want the GW2 trinity that would have been from the start had the lines not got entirely blurred. I hate the idea of tanks, it doesn’t feel right. But if the game was designed like this, the trying gw2 ALMOST HAD:

Dps – dps are primary damage dealers. Their secondary roll is to stun/daze/interrupt large mob power attacks. Side note: Defiance would go away and be replaced with a system of always being immune to stuns/dazes but when charging telegraphed unblockable/ unevadable they become “exposed” and so dps would have the roll of preventing power attacks that could essentially wipe parties in harder content by predictable but well-timed use of CCs.

Enfeeblers – condition users. Their primary use is to support in damage by using and spreading dots and using utility debuffs such as poison, weakness, snares and chills to weaken its enemy. A new primary stat would be added (Lingering) for condition duration. They’d focus on condi damage, lingering and toughness.

Support – most of the mass amount of self boons would go away and supporters would have the best access to boon sharing, such as protection, high might stacks, fury etc. they’d support the dps rather than dps being able to keep max might stacks on themselves. A new primary stat (Will) gives boon duration. The major focus for support would be healing, toughness and will.

Then this would set up nicely for hybrids by using 2 different weapon types and mixing stats.

just to emphasize, to all the people who think that the ‘zerker or gtfo’ meta is working as intended. and that ‘soldier" armor is training wheels toward ’zerkers’.

the quoteabove is what the game supposed to be.
if you invest in DPS you should hinder yourself in survivability , debuffing (also CC) and support (boons availability etc).
in the current meta, investing in raw dps have no negative implications, you still have most of the cc, the boons, the healing , and all the blocks, all the reflects.
the survivability doesn’t change because active dodging is far more potent than any available vitality and toughness amount.

while people who invest in boons, healing, survivability, CC hinder themselves in DPS.

current state of the game is singularity, not trinity while it should have been large spectrum of viable builds from side to side.

Lalangamena.3694:

current state of the game is singularity, not trinity while it should have been large spectrum of viable builds from side to side.

I think that one line perfectly summarizes the problem with the game right now.

Salt.4621:

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

My issue with taunt is that it kills any illusion the enemy is intelligent at all.

I’ll keep banging way on this guy, even though he’s not taking damage, and even though I’m a super intelligent demon from the abyss, I have no idea healers exist or someone is keeping him alive.

It’s just too contrived for my taste.

I always have to laugh when people in a trinity game say they want a better Monster AI since i know that they don’t really want that because any AI would kill the trinity.
If a monster is intelligent it would ignore the low damage tank, and first kill maybe the healer or the squishy DDs.

I’d very much disagree. Taunting works on human players all of the time. I played WoW for years and in every single BG I played I’d often simply /laugh at someone (usually rogues) when my ret pally was OP’d and smashing anything that moved. 9 times out 10 that player made a bee line for me every single time in sheer frustration and annoyance over a simple emote. Out healers loved it. The other 10% didn’t fall for it but boy does emote tanking work. Its a taunt. It works on human players a lot. I’ve had players log out, log into my realm a some level 1 character and abuse me in typical WoW fashion. “F%$$%#g scrub, blah, blah, blah, rage, rage” all over a /laugh or a /mock. Music to my ears!

extremely off topic
Taunts and ‘detaunts’ in warhammer online worked in pvp because their effect was to half the damage you deal while under the effect of a taunt unless your target is source of that taunt.

Dude, you don’t ‘taunt’ players in pvp. Entering the aggro bubble is more than enough to get the attention of your typical Joe the Hotjoiner for the remainder of the match.
Taunts are so WoW.

On the topic of AI – when a pve mob is first engaged in GW1, the monsters typically move past the tank (unless the tank manages to bodyblock them in a narrow passage or a corner) and immediately engage any light/lower armor and low HP target within their aggro bubble, often wrecking havoc in your mid- and backlines. Ironically, spirit spam and minions make the perfect, and often obligatory, meat shields to counter that; however if you don’t manage to kill the mob before your minions and spirits are wiped, that usually ends in a team wipe in virtually any elite pve zone (especially when there are no good prot monks as the final line of defense).

The problem, however, are permasins, because they are able to bypass pretty much everything.

And that is why complete invulnerability is a bad game mechanic. It was bad in GW1, and its still bad in GW2.

Apathy.6430:

Hell, you could even lone wolf pretty much the entire game. I did FoW hard mode with a group of 7…me plus six heroes.

Peeps did FoW Hard Mode with 3 heroes. With 7 heroes one could aggro the entire burning forest at once just to get it done faster. Without tanks.

I would maybe prefer a system where you’d want one or two non zerker builds in pve group, but pure trinity is way too restrictive in a combat system like this.

For me the main draw in GW2 is the fact that it’s different, it’s the only mmo successfully deviating from the WoW’s way of doing things imo.

I’m not saying I want the old trinity back, but some sort of inter-class reliance would really improve the combat. Rather than having a full zerker party, there should be just one zerker, one support, one healing, maybe one tank, and any of the classes should be able to take that role.

Right now everyone just stacks in a corner, spams all their boons at once, and then bludgeons the enemies to death. That is not interesting combat to me. It’s more like a game of wack-a-mole, but without the surprise of not knowing where the moles will pop out.