Guild Wars 2

Don´t get me wrong, I immensely enjoyed GW1 and certainly am not the biggest fan of GW2, but I doubt you can pull off the feeling of GW1 in any MMORPG. In GW1, the world revolved around you, in an MMORPG, you are by definition just one of the guys. That, of cause, is no excuse for the rest of the things listed in this thread, which I mostly agree with.

Kurrilino.2706:

This !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I still play GW1 and feel the same.

For any reason they did the exact opposite of their GW2 trailer video.
This one where they say they take everything good from GW1 and mix it with new awesome ideas.

What they actually did is they too everything cool from GW1 out of the game and mixed it with some new but not working ideas.

Please A-Net i beg you…….

Bring back
-Multiple skills to choose from
-Bring back death penalty
-Bring back Monster Necros who raise stuff from our bodys
-Take away reviving from everyone but Guardian and Necro
- Bring back Cantha and Elona

this is the only thing i see making this comunity great as it onced was

I feel equally attach to my GW1 and GW2 characters in terms of story.
I feel we have enough skills to keep the game balance, GW1 had a horrible time balancing skills. The skills range from fantastic, nice but don’t use, don’t use at all. In GW2, they’re trying to make all the skills useful.

Death Penalty? We have downed penalty, don’t want death penalty at all. I agree with Anet decision about Death Penalty, they felt it was further punishing a player for dying. In GW2, when we die we get broken armor and a downed penalty. To me that’s fine having Death Penalty (for those that don’t know, it reduces your health and the amount of times you can use skills [energy]), Downed Penalty, and Broken Armor is overkill. But to your credit, you’re the only person I met so far that wanted to have death penalty back XD.

Necros being able to make minions from bodies again..I’m totally fine with lol.
Reviving for only Guardian and Necro? No way, that’s going the Monk route we’ll get LF1Monk Only requests all over again. Sure we get that sometimes now but it wasn’t as bad as in GW1, where it was mandatory to have a healer in a dungeon or mission (imo).

Cantha and Elona, yes, I agree to bringing them back. If there are IRL issues with Cantha still and other cultures then do Elona first instead. The Pact already stated they were considering going after Kralkatorrik in the Crystal Desert so releasing Elona first would make sense (lore wise).

notorious bob.2061:

GW2 is not an MMORPG. It is, maybe a MMOFPS. There is no RPG in GW2 because there is no freedom to create anything other than cookie cutter toons. And at that there is a desire to make all classes the same. Take away the holy-trinity and every toon just becomes same old same old.

GW1 had WAY more RPG to it, way more Co-op and WAY more community.

GW1 had a ton of cookie cutter toons, you load a build from a template code and you were ready to go. GW2 has more flexiblity because any class can be any part of the (former) holy trinity. Guardians can be tanks, healers, or dps; Same with other classes, there are even new combinations people are coming up with. GW1 was more restricted IMO following the holy trinity model.

Furyan.9578:

Zero Day.2594:

I kind of liked solo’ing stuff in GW1. Something that’s hard/ineffective to do in GW2. Kind of allowed me to play whenever, for however long. With GW2 if I want to do a dungeon I have to find a group of people (hopefully competent enough), and then I can’t exactly ditch them half way through (some paths are too long, would feel bad considering how long it took to assemble a group) if I had to go do something else (life calls).

I miss that choice to be able to play with others or just do it yourself: open world is open to all, the whole MMO aspect but dungeons are not. I miss being able to run it myself (with or without a party) as I could in GW. I miss that choice.

You can solo dungeons, there are plenty of Twitch streams that have people Soloing Arah and more rather easily with practice.

Algreg.3629:

Don´t get me wrong, I immensely enjoyed GW1 and certainly am not the biggest fan of GW2, but I doubt you can pull off the feeling of GW1 in any MMORPG. In GW1, the world revolved around you, in an MMORPG, you are by definition just one of the guys. That, of cause, is no excuse for the rest of the things listed in this thread, which I mostly agree with.

this is not necessarily true.

They tend to design MMOs like you are just one of the guys, but it is not necessary within the game design. You can make every player feel like a great hero, and have tons of players.

MMO just means you have a lot of players playing in the same world at the same time. How heroic they are is a different matter.

think of it this way, the marvel universe has supposedly thousands of super heroes, and yet they are still heroes

reapex.8546:

Furyan.9578:

Zero Day.2594:

I kind of liked solo’ing stuff in GW1. Something that’s hard/ineffective to do in GW2. Kind of allowed me to play whenever, for however long. With GW2 if I want to do a dungeon I have to find a group of people (hopefully competent enough), and then I can’t exactly ditch them half way through (some paths are too long, would feel bad considering how long it took to assemble a group) if I had to go do something else (life calls).

I miss that choice to be able to play with others or just do it yourself: open world is open to all, the whole MMO aspect but dungeons are not. I miss being able to run it myself (with or without a party) as I could in GW. I miss that choice.

You can solo dungeons, there are plenty of Twitch streams that have people Soloing Arah and more rather easily with practice.

its not rather easily, and its fairly time consuming, also, if you dont sell dungeon paths, its a general loss of money. I dont think you can really compare gw2 solo sub culture, with gw1 solo/small group accessibility

i love GW1….it’s my favorite online game..gws 2 has a better combat system and the tp is great..but when they made gws 2 they seem to forgot their roots..the White Mantle ghost doesn’t even have the right armor and those are the ghost of people we killed in gws 1..don’t know if it’s a over site or they just didn’t care..gw 1 made me wake up in the morning and want to play everyday..only reason i get on gws 2 is to chat with what few friends are left, most left gws 2 and mailed me their stuff..they never came back..they other day i was so bored i fell asleep in claypool..i have also fell asleep running places..i really try to like gws 2.. i know anet is trying but gws 1 is still king to me. gws 2 stories like the “land-locked ship looting a orrian ship”…makes no sense..it’s land-locked…how did a orrian ship get in land..there is no path..lol

reapex.8546:

notorious bob.2061:

GW2 is not an MMORPG. It is, maybe a MMOFPS. There is no RPG in GW2 because there is no freedom to create anything other than cookie cutter toons. And at that there is a desire to make all classes the same. Take away the holy-trinity and every toon just becomes same old same old.

GW1 had WAY more RPG to it, way more Co-op and WAY more community.

GW1 had a ton of cookie cutter toons, you load a build from a template code and you were ready to go. GW2 has more flexiblity because any class can be any part of the (former) holy trinity. Guardians can be tanks, healers, or dps; Same with other classes, there are even new combinations people are coming up with. GW1 was more restricted IMO following the holy trinity model.

this is not true, gw1 had tons and tons of builds and synergies, if we are going to define it by the cookie cutter builds,
gw2 usually has a slight variation on 2 to 3 cookie cutters per proffesion with 8 proffesions, lets call that 24 cookie cutters heck lets say there are 5, that would still only give us 40.

this is the list of great pve cookie cutter builds in gw1
http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Category:Great_working_PvE_builds
it numbers 133.

so comparing cookie cutter to cookie cutter, gw1 still wins.

the main purpose of gw2 skill system limitations is not for greater variety, its to make it easier not to make a bad build. AND to actually have less viable builds, so they have to balance less.
Overall i would say gw1 had more interesting builds/options.
I think gw2 needs to expand the skill system in the future.

they should add skill swaps for weapon skills (think if each weapon had multiple possibilities for each slot, even if only 2 options per slot)
and more weapon skills.

they also need more elites, and more regular skills.
more proffesions.

we had a fine starting point, eased people into the game, but it is ready to be expanded on.

If you’re truly not happy with GW2, leave. It really is that simple.

I never played GW1, but I honestly don’t see what people are talking about when they say that they can’t connect to their characters or the NPCs. I for one am in love with my character. GW2 gives your character a basic back story that is pretty customizble compared to other MMOs that just give you a toon, drop you off in a city, and tell you to grind. As with most MMORPG’s, the RPG part really needs to come from you. You need to come up with the fleshy backstory for your character. You need to give them personality. You need to work to make your character unique. The only thing I wish ANet would touch upon in terms of personal story is give some explanation as to where most of the player’s magic/fighting ability came from.

As for the NPC’s saying that they no personality—or something you can attach to—is downright wrong. Every major character in the Personal Story and Living Story is more fleshed out than any character in any other MMO I’ve ever played. You cannot honestly say that you don’t have some form of opinion on Trahearne, Destiny’s Edge, Faolain, Queen Jenna, Countess Anise, Phlunt, Rox, Taimi, Scarlett, Kasmeer, or Brahm. Personally, I absolutely hate Trahearne, Phlunt, and Kasmeer, but its either because of their infuriating personalities or because they somehow hogged all the glory from you when you killed an Elder Dragon….Anyway, kudos to ANet for making me feeling ANYTHING about NPC’s; further kudos to them for making me want to dislike them.

I personally LOVE GW2 more than any video game I’ve ever played. A big part of this is because I see it for what it is; a social MMO that gives your character a lot of room for development if you put in the actual effort.

phys.7689:

reapex.8546:

notorious bob.2061:

GW2 is not an MMORPG. It is, maybe a MMOFPS. There is no RPG in GW2 because there is no freedom to create anything other than cookie cutter toons. And at that there is a desire to make all classes the same. Take away the holy-trinity and every toon just becomes same old same old.

GW1 had WAY more RPG to it, way more Co-op and WAY more community.

GW1 had a ton of cookie cutter toons, you load a build from a template code and you were ready to go. GW2 has more flexiblity because any class can be any part of the (former) holy trinity. Guardians can be tanks, healers, or dps; Same with other classes, there are even new combinations people are coming up with. GW1 was more restricted IMO following the holy trinity model.

this is not true, gw1 had tons and tons of builds and synergies, if we are going to define it by the cookie cutter builds,
gw2 usually has a slight variation on 2 to 3 cookie cutters per proffesion with 8 proffesions, lets call that 24 cookie cutters heck lets say there are 5, that would still only give us 40.

this is the list of great pve cookie cutter builds in gw1
http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Category:Great_working_PvE_builds
it numbers 133.

so comparing cookie cutter to cookie cutter, gw1 still wins.

To support phys…
In GW2 you basically choose which weapon you want to play, – and that’s pretty much the build. (Calling things “builds” in this game, actually kind of sickens me)
A GS on a warrior has 5 skills, you can’t change those, you build around them as best as you can. So a GS warrior will always work like a GS warrior…
In GW1, you were able to pick your skills… so potentially two warriors with a sword/shield would have completely different builds and would work in different manners. And that’s not even getting into having the ability to switch between secondary professions…
Sorry but the skill/build system in GW1 has way more depth than GW2.

And like phys also mentioned. The intent of having such an over-simplified system for GW2 was to make it easier to balance things – which, let’s be honest, they’re failing at (+ considering that noteworthy balance changes come at 6 month iterations… ).

@Noah
Basically, GW2 as a successor lacks depth in very department (story, builds, even endgame) in comparison to it’s predecessor GW1.
Many GW1 fans, including myself, fell for the GuildWars title in the GuildWars 2. Hence the frustration for what could have been.

Noah.9654:

If you’re truly not happy with GW2, leave. It really is that simple.

I never played GW1, but I honestly don’t see what people are talking about when they say that they can’t connect to their characters or the NPCs. I for one am in love with my character. GW2 gives your character a basic back story that is pretty customizble compared to other MMOs that just give you a toon, drop you off in a city, and tell you to grind. As with most MMORPG’s, the RPG part really needs to come from you. You need to come up with the fleshy backstory for your character. You need to give them personality. You need to work to make your character unique. The only thing I wish ANet would touch upon in terms of personal story is give some explanation as to where most of the player’s magic/fighting ability came from.

As for the NPC’s saying that they no personality—or something you can attach to—is downright wrong. Every major character in the Personal Story and Living Story is more fleshed out than any character in any other MMO I’ve ever played. You cannot honestly say that you don’t have some form of opinion on Trahearne, Destiny’s Edge, Faolain, Queen Jenna, Countess Anise, Phlunt, Rox, Taimi, Scarlett, Kasmeer, or Brahm. Personally, I absolutely hate Trahearne, Phlunt, and Kasmeer, but its either because of their infuriating personalities or because they somehow hogged all the glory from you when you killed an Elder Dragon….Anyway, kudos to ANet for making me feeling ANYTHING about NPC’s; further kudos to them for making me want to dislike them.

I personally LOVE GW2 more than any video game I’ve ever played. A big part of this is because I see it for what it is; a social MMO that gives your character a lot of room for development if you put in the actual effort.

as someone who never played gw1, you probably cant compare it.
Now i am not saying gw1 was the second coming or was the greatest thing ever, but as a person who played i can kind of see why people feel some of the way they feel.

GW1 pve was essentially a collection of missions, think personal story/combined with dungeons that all moved the plot forward, at every single step.

GW1 skill system, if you didnt use the cookie cutters, was highly unique. You could get totally, and i mean totally different playstyles for one proffesion.

GW1 world, revolved around the narrative for each area.

that said, i dont think many people can enjoy gw1 the same way now that they have played gw2. It has different strengths and weaknesses.

However, i will say gw1 was way better at developing and improving the initial experience. The PVE design improved with every campaign (imo) and yet it all tied together pretty well. It also, by this time in its cycle had a wealth of content, and things to do.

There are some things to learn, and apply from gw1, however, it usually gets caught in gw1 vs gw2 instead of talking about what is strong, or what would transfer over well to gw1, and how to transfer it over.

phys.7689:

There are some things to learn, and apply from gw1, however, it usually gets caught in gw1 vs gw2 instead of talking about what is strong, or what would transfer over well to gw1, and how to transfer it over.

I’ll give my opinion as someone who has played both Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2.

They are completely separate games. The feel, the goals, the systems… there is really nothing “similar” in the games, aside from the lore.

Talking about transitioning things from GW1 to GW2 just seems like a bad idea to me. GW2 has taken on a life of it’s own. It isn’t “the sequel to GW1”, instead it’s “that MMO that relies heavily on dodging and combat that actually makes realistic sense”.

If you really want a game that’s more like GW1, then start with a game that’s already close to it. Don’t take what people love about GW2 and twist it to fit what you think the “sequel” to GW1 should be like.

Maybe Guild Wars 3 will be closer to Guild Wars 1 than it is to 2. If so, then good for you. You’ll get the game you want. But me? I like GW2 how it is. I don’t want it to be fit into a mold just to be more like its “predecessor”. I like my game how it is, don’t ruin it for me in the name of nostalgia and/or legacy.

GW1 and GW2 are very different beasts.

GW1 was essentially an RPG with multiplayer lobbies, whereas GW2 is a full scale MMO. with that MMO transition, there’s always going to be a loss in personalisation and character importance (I mean let’s face it, in the GW2 storyline, you’re not even the star, just a supporting character)

Zero Day.2594:

In GW2 you basically choose which weapon you want to play, – and that’s pretty much the build. (Calling things “builds” in this game, actually kind of sickens me)

GW1 pve was essentially a collection of missions, think personal story/combined with dungeons that all moved the plot forward, at every single step.

GW1 skill system, if you didnt use the cookie cutters, was highly unique. You could get totally, and i mean totally different playstyles for one proffesion.

GW1 world, revolved around the narrative for each area.

QFT.

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Hope they never ever listen to GW1 suggestions (khm…traits….khm)

you keep saying this, but im pretty sure its not accurate, can you point me to where people asked for existing traits to become unlocks? im pretty sure that never happened.

People asked for GW2 to add something like unlocking Elite skills in GW. I’m pretty sure they weren’t talking about redoing the traits, though. What they were really looking for was new skills, new Elites especially and new content to unlock them in. What we got instead was a trait revamp, which is very unlike GW Elite capture. ANet puts their own twists on player requests. I’m pretty sure a lot of people who wanted gear progression were unhappy with ANet’s version, and a lot who wanted raids were unhappy with instance taxiing to do Teq.

I think what Mika is saying is, “With ANet, be careful what you ask for, you may not recognize it when you get it.”

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

They are completely separate games. The feel, the goals, the systems… there is really nothing “similar” in the games, aside from the lore.

Talking about transitioning things from GW1 to GW2 just seems like a bad idea to me. GW2 has taken on a life of it’s own. It isn’t “the sequel to GW1”, instead it’s “that MMO that relies heavily on dodging and combat that actually makes realistic sense”.

Very much agree – thing is, what were the GW1 player base expecting out of GW2? A totally separate game or a sequel which took the best of the original and brought it “up-to-date”.

Did the GW1 player base want GW2 or a WoW knock off?

reapex.8546:

notorious bob.2061:

GW2 is not an MMORPG. It is, maybe a MMOFPS. There is no RPG in GW2 because there is no freedom to create anything other than cookie cutter toons. And at that there is a desire to make all classes the same. Take away the holy-trinity and every toon just becomes same old same old.

GW1 had WAY more RPG to it, way more Co-op and WAY more community.

GW1 had a ton of cookie cutter toons, you load a build from a template code and you were ready to go. GW2 has more flexiblity because any class can be any part of the (former) holy trinity. Guardians can be tanks, healers, or dps; Same with other classes, there are even new combinations people are coming up with. GW1 was more restricted IMO following the holy trinity model.

Gw2 has the the least meaningful and impactful build diversity, flexibility and customization I’ve ever experienced. It’s a shame that a aaa game company like nc and anet has such a poor profession system. If I were a modern day developer or company, I would be embarrassed to release (and not improve on) such a terrible character system for customers.

Also, it’s pretty sad that I can play most of the game with autoattacks, dodge rolls and a self heal. Wvw is more complex because I have to press f to pick up my loot while trying to stick with a zerg. I’m not even going to bother mentioning the bad joke that is spvp encounters. The only redeeming and interesting quality to combat is that we can move and attack.

Overall, this game belongs on a console because it’s not worthy for a PC.

notorious bob.2061:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

They are completely separate games. The feel, the goals, the systems… there is really nothing “similar” in the games, aside from the lore.

Talking about transitioning things from GW1 to GW2 just seems like a bad idea to me. GW2 has taken on a life of it’s own. It isn’t “the sequel to GW1”, instead it’s “that MMO that relies heavily on dodging and combat that actually makes realistic sense”.

Very much agree – thing is, what were the GW1 player base expecting out of GW2? A totally separate game or a sequel which took the best of the original and brought it “up-to-date”.

Did the GW1 player base want GW2 or a WoW knock off?

i say sequel which took the best of the original and brought it up-to-date..new stories new skills, new professions and 250years later.. not a WoW knock off

phys.7689:

reapex.8546:

Furyan.9578:

Zero Day.2594:

I kind of liked solo’ing stuff in GW1. Something that’s hard/ineffective to do in GW2. Kind of allowed me to play whenever, for however long. With GW2 if I want to do a dungeon I have to find a group of people (hopefully competent enough), and then I can’t exactly ditch them half way through (some paths are too long, would feel bad considering how long it took to assemble a group) if I had to go do something else (life calls).

I miss that choice to be able to play with others or just do it yourself: open world is open to all, the whole MMO aspect but dungeons are not. I miss being able to run it myself (with or without a party) as I could in GW. I miss that choice.

You can solo dungeons, there are plenty of Twitch streams that have people Soloing Arah and more rather easily with practice.

its not rather easily, and its fairly time consuming, also, if you dont sell dungeon paths, its a general loss of money. I dont think you can really compare gw2 solo sub culture, with gw1 solo/small group accessibility

I wasn’t thinking of selling for profit, I thought the poster meant soloing for fun.

Zero Day.2594:

phys.7689:

reapex.8546:

notorious bob.2061:

GW2 is not an MMORPG. It is, maybe a MMOFPS. There is no RPG in GW2 because there is no freedom to create anything other than cookie cutter toons. And at that there is a desire to make all classes the same. Take away the holy-trinity and every toon just becomes same old same old.

GW1 had WAY more RPG to it, way more Co-op and WAY more community.

GW1 had a ton of cookie cutter toons, you load a build from a template code and you were ready to go. GW2 has more flexiblity because any class can be any part of the (former) holy trinity. Guardians can be tanks, healers, or dps; Same with other classes, there are even new combinations people are coming up with. GW1 was more restricted IMO following the holy trinity model.

this is not true, gw1 had tons and tons of builds and synergies, if we are going to define it by the cookie cutter builds,
gw2 usually has a slight variation on 2 to 3 cookie cutters per proffesion with 8 proffesions, lets call that 24 cookie cutters heck lets say there are 5, that would still only give us 40.

this is the list of great pve cookie cutter builds in gw1
http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Category:Great_working_PvE_builds
it numbers 133.

so comparing cookie cutter to cookie cutter, gw1 still wins.

To support phys…
In GW2 you basically choose which weapon you want to play, – and that’s pretty much the build. (Calling things “builds” in this game, actually kind of sickens me)
A GS on a warrior has 5 skills, you can’t change those, you build around them as best as you can. So a GS warrior will always work like a GS warrior…
In GW1, you were able to pick your skills… so potentially two warriors with a sword/shield would have completely different builds and would work in different manners. And that’s not even getting into having the ability to switch between secondary professions…
Sorry but the skill/build system in GW1 has way more depth than GW2.

And like phys also mentioned. The intent of having such an over-simplified system for GW2 was to make it easier to balance things – which, let’s be honest, they’re failing at (+ considering that noteworthy balance changes come at 6 month iterations… ).

---

@Noah
Basically, GW2 as a successor lacks depth in very department (story, builds, even endgame) in comparison to it’s predecessor GW1.
Many GW1 fans, including myself, fell for the GuildWars title in the GuildWars 2. Hence the frustration for what could have been.

In reference to PvX Wiki: Of those 133 builds many of them would be deemed outdated or no longer in use due to the constant nerfs and buffs Anet had to do to skills to keep them balance. Rits, Dervishes, and more were all buffed and nerfed over the yeah. Assassian’s Shadow Form caused new enemies to be introduce into underworld after several nerfs failed to address player work arounds. Anet does not want history to repeat with GW2, at least not to the severity of GW1 skill imbalances.

Looking at GW2 skills and comparing them with GW1 is a wrong comparison imo. Its like apples to oranges. GW2 relies on traits to change those skills functionality and usage; Also, GW2 still has more skills than prophecies when you include in traits. Equpping a weapon does not make a build far from it. Also, the reference about synergy with other players is still possible in GW2 with CC and Combos. This post is all in my opinion.

IndigoSundown.5419:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Hope they never ever listen to GW1 suggestions (khm…traits….khm)

you keep saying this, but im pretty sure its not accurate, can you point me to where people asked for existing traits to become unlocks? im pretty sure that never happened.

People asked for GW2 to add something like unlocking Elite skills in GW. I’m pretty sure they weren’t talking about redoing the traits, though. What they were really looking for was new skills, new Elites especially and new content to unlock them in. What we got instead was a trait revamp, which is very unlike GW Elite capture. ANet puts their own twists on player requests. I’m pretty sure a lot of people who wanted gear progression were unhappy with ANet’s version, and a lot who wanted raids were unhappy with instance taxiing to do Teq.

I think what Mika is saying is, “With ANet, be careful what you ask for, you may not recognize it when you get it.”

based on his past interactions, im pretty sure he is saying that literally people were asking for traits to be unlocked.
His argument wouldnt make sense otherwise, he basically uses it as justification that they shouldnt listen to players.

And what you said is correct, the discussion for unlocks was centered around how they chose to add new skills, which was generally, pay 25-50 skill points being a bad, and not engaging mechanic, and even if that was how they wanted to do it, also they should offer an alternate method, for new skills to be aquired. They also said it should/could have an unlock method in context with the skill.

but yes, it wasnt what people were asking for, and it really wasnt executed with the same spirit that it was intended.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Missed my first 2 days of GW2 since release of AA ready for my 3rd day and having a blast. Type at ya later.

Seems pretty fun so far. That said, NO MATCH for GW2.

Some people take GW2’s greatness for granted. Only way to prefer something like AA (which I have nothing against, BTW) is if you never liked/appreciated the unique offerings GW2 has brought to MMO gamers. There are too many things that GW2 does better than AA and a whole lot of other games-playing those makes you miss what’s so special about GW2.

Plus that game is a different sort of MMO, so I don’t feel a comparison is fair (ANet’s budget and polish blows it out of the water, though it has its niche.) Good, perhaps, but shouldn’t be compared with this great game (at least in my mind, if I was to choose only one to play there would be no question which one that would be-even if I was new to both.)

Play and let play, of course. Though no comparison, IMHO.

reapex.8546:

In reference to PvX Wiki: Of those 133 builds many of them would be deemed outdated or no longer in use due to the constant nerfs and buffs Anet had to do to skills to keep them balance. Rits, Dervishes, and more were all buffed and nerfed over the yeah. Assassian’s Shadow Form caused new enemies to be introduce into underworld after several nerfs failed to address player work arounds. Anet does not want history to repeat with GW2, at least not to the severity of GW1 skill imbalances.

Zero Day.2594:

And like phys also mentioned. The intent of having such an over-simplified system for GW2 was to make it easier to balance things – which, let’s be honest, they’re failing at (+ considering that noteworthy balance changes come at 6 month iterations… ).

Outdated/no-longer in use might be because there isn’t as large of a community supporting the wiki anymore (editing/updating/creating builds…).

Yeah I remember sin’s SF. ANet doesn’t want history to repeat? I think it already has – Thief’s stealth (most QQ’ed mechanic). And the severity of skill imbalances already exists, nor can be avoided really. They did try to make it easier to manage, though they’re slow to manage.

Yeah the weapon making a build is an opinion. But I really feel like I’m playing 1 thing (at most 2) using 1 weapon – given that each profession has around say ~7 weapons (average, some less some more) with an average of ~12 combinations (some way less)… it really gets stale on how you play. Plus I’m not even mentioning how many of those weapons are effective on each class… Sure it’s less garbage/cookie-cutter builds, but it’s also way less builds in general.

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Hope they never ever listen to GW1 suggestions (khm…traits….khm)

you keep saying this, but im pretty sure its not accurate, can you point me to where people asked for existing traits to become unlocks? im pretty sure that never happened.

There was a thread, search function doesn’t work so good luck finding it, and in it the thread people were talking about how the old skill hunting stuff was great in Guild Wars 1 and we should bring it here. In that thread, many said it wouldn’t work for skills, there weren’t enough of them and you need them pretty early, but that it would work for traits.

It wasn’t a huge outcry in a bunch of threads, but skill hunting has come up a number of times and people said they liked it better than the way skills were in Guild Wars 2, just handed to you, and in every thread I can remember on the subject, it always shifted from skills to traits in the thread and always had at least some support.

Edit: It might have even been mentioned in the CDI thread on horizontal progression. I seem to remember that, but in that case, I can’t say for sure.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

phys.7689:

Haishao.6851:

phys.7689:

what is the core of what you feel is missing in gw2?

Depth

how could guild wars 2 add depth?

I’d rather have him explain what his perception of “depth” in a game is. That’s a very vague term for something that he obviously has a very specific state of thought about.

Teon.5168:

I mean seriously…..look at your above statement. Do you actually play games that you don’t enjoy?? If so, WHY????

His answer is going to be along the lines of, “To support ArenaNet because I loved Guild Wars 1.” Or some other comment about this being a legacy franchise.

Good point. But that still makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

But yea, you’re most likely correct.

Swagger.1459:

Anet should run an adopt-a-dev for gw1 program so the team can experience all the things that players loved and give them a better development direction.

You can’t be serious. What game out there has the kind of resources/staff/time to commit to such a hair brained idea??? If they did what you suggest, the trolls would come out of the woodwork and nothing would ever be accomplished in developing the game.

Seriously, what kind of world do some of you live in????

notorious bob.2061:

Boneheart.3561:

notorious bob.2061:

Vorch.2985:

I’m a Gwamm with a 50/50 HoM.

And?

Vorch.2985:

I understand that this is a forum and that we are all entitled to our opinion, but as a GW1 vet, please remember that there are plenty of us playing GW2 and enjoying ourselves. Keep that in mind next time you see a God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals title in GW2.

And I wonder, how many like me, are not enjoying ourselves?

That might make an interesting poll for Anet.

I was under the impression that your initial post (and this post) conveyed that Guild Wars players would relate to your issues with Guild Wars 2. So, some people that played Guild Wars (including me) typed that they cannot relate (in a few cases, not entirely).

Seems like many GW players DO relate to my opinions. No doubt some will and some won’t. What is more important perhaps is that ANet needs to be listening to all opinions and perhaps, shouldn’t have advertised GW2 as being a sequel for GW1 – it isn’t.

The community and ANet should be focussed on making GW2 better – and not simply accepting a half- kitten d job where the focus seems to be on the trivial. e.g. did any of us really expect GW2 to be dominated by TP economics and insider trading? I don’t remember GW1 really struggling due to a lack of a TP – heaven forbid players actually had to trade with each other… oh my!

It is a sequel, just not the same type of game. I would be the first to admit the changes were challenging back in beta (felt like GW only in lore, not that much in gameplay). However, it IS a sequel, because it’s lore is the official “canon” continuation of the events transpired on GW1 (even if GW2 was a puzzle/strategy game, if it moves the lore forwards it is indeed a sequel, though of course you may hate the game itself.)

And this game is pretty excellent, to be honest with you. My opinion, and all of that, but it’s unique, with great cooperative mechanics, and a gorgeous universe. Not all past GW1 players just wanted GW1.XX (and I do not mean to belittle the original, as it was great, but another sort of game.)

Finally, this thread should read “Why GW2 doesn’t work for me”, because I don’t see any indication that it isn’t working, especially for 100% of players. It’s great to prefer GW1, but that doesn’t mean that GW2 “isn’t working.”

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

phys.7689:

There are some things to learn, and apply from gw1, however, it usually gets caught in gw1 vs gw2 instead of talking about what is strong, or what would transfer over well to gw1, and how to transfer it over.

I’ll give my opinion as someone who has played both Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2.

They are completely separate games. The feel, the goals, the systems… there is really nothing “similar” in the games, aside from the lore.

Talking about transitioning things from GW1 to GW2 just seems like a bad idea to me. GW2 has taken on a life of it’s own. It isn’t “the sequel to GW1”, instead it’s “that MMO that relies heavily on dodging and combat that actually makes realistic sense”.

If you really want a game that’s more like GW1, then start with a game that’s already close to it. Don’t take what people love about GW2 and twist it to fit what you think the “sequel” to GW1 should be like.

Maybe Guild Wars 3 will be closer to Guild Wars 1 than it is to 2. If so, then good for you. You’ll get the game you want. But me? I like GW2 how it is. I don’t want it to be fit into a mold just to be more like its “predecessor”. I like my game how it is, don’t ruin it for me in the name of nostalgia and/or legacy.

Well said….and I agree completely.

Teon.5168:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

phys.7689:

There are some things to learn, and apply from gw1, however, it usually gets caught in gw1 vs gw2 instead of talking about what is strong, or what would transfer over well to gw1, and how to transfer it over.

I’ll give my opinion as someone who has played both Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2.

They are completely separate games. The feel, the goals, the systems… there is really nothing “similar” in the games, aside from the lore.

Talking about transitioning things from GW1 to GW2 just seems like a bad idea to me. GW2 has taken on a life of it’s own. It isn’t “the sequel to GW1”, instead it’s “that MMO that relies heavily on dodging and combat that actually makes realistic sense”.

If you really want a game that’s more like GW1, then start with a game that’s already close to it. Don’t take what people love about GW2 and twist it to fit what you think the “sequel” to GW1 should be like.

Maybe Guild Wars 3 will be closer to Guild Wars 1 than it is to 2. If so, then good for you. You’ll get the game you want. But me? I like GW2 how it is. I don’t want it to be fit into a mold just to be more like its “predecessor”. I like my game how it is, don’t ruin it for me in the name of nostalgia and/or legacy.

Well said….and I agree completely.

Nostalgia is one thing, but missing functionality that wouldn’t hurt the game confused me.

Replaying key missions
Saving/Sharing your entire builds
Selectable instances

How would these things break GW2 for people?

A lot of the stuff I miss from GW can’t be in GW2 simply because of how the lore of the world works, for the moment at least (/cough Dervish! /cough ), but there was nice functions that the previous game had that were great. Also, refining things in Gw2 like what choice actually means, how that functions wouldn’t hurt the game either.

Multi-class set ups, while missed, aren’t something I’d like to see.

*on a side note they could probably drop a Dervish class into the game and it wouldn’t require that much adjusting: seeing as how many weapons default attack hits multiple foes, its skills have a positive and negative effect (damage and heal), they have true Avatars , etc, but that’s just me. *

Furyan.9578:

Teon.5168:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

phys.7689:

There are some things to learn, and apply from gw1, however, it usually gets caught in gw1 vs gw2 instead of talking about what is strong, or what would transfer over well to gw1, and how to transfer it over.

I’ll give my opinion as someone who has played both Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2.

They are completely separate games. The feel, the goals, the systems… there is really nothing “similar” in the games, aside from the lore.

Talking about transitioning things from GW1 to GW2 just seems like a bad idea to me. GW2 has taken on a life of it’s own. It isn’t “the sequel to GW1”, instead it’s “that MMO that relies heavily on dodging and combat that actually makes realistic sense”.

If you really want a game that’s more like GW1, then start with a game that’s already close to it. Don’t take what people love about GW2 and twist it to fit what you think the “sequel” to GW1 should be like.

Maybe Guild Wars 3 will be closer to Guild Wars 1 than it is to 2. If so, then good for you. You’ll get the game you want. But me? I like GW2 how it is. I don’t want it to be fit into a mold just to be more like its “predecessor”. I like my game how it is, don’t ruin it for me in the name of nostalgia and/or legacy.

Well said….and I agree completely.

Nostalgia is one thing, but missing functionality that wouldn’t hurt the game confused me.

Replaying key missions
Saving/Sharing your entire builds
Selectable instances

How would these things break GW2 for people?

A lot of the stuff I miss from GW can’t be in GW2 simply because of how the lore of the world works, for the moment at least (/cough Dervish! /cough ), but there was nice functions that the previous game had that were great. Also, refining things in Gw2 like what choice actually means, how that functions wouldn’t hurt the game either.

Multi-class set ups, while missed, aren’t something I’d like to see.

*on a side note they could probably drop a Dervish class into the game and it wouldn’t require that much adjusting: seeing as how many weapons default attack hits multiple foes, its skills have a positive and negative effect (damage and heal), they have true Avatars , etc, but that’s just me. *

Saving/sharing builds is an interesting concept. I think that might work.

I have also thought that there are many other things that could be shared account wide without hurting the game…..such as skill points……(or has that been done, as I have taken a break from the game for a few weeks) Thats the best thing about this game, imo……you can take a break for a few weeks if you want to and just come back and take off where you left off with no penalties(albeit having to log in for the ls stuff)

Some interesting things could be done account wide that would only improve things, imo.

Teon.5168:

Furyan.9578:

Teon.5168:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

phys.7689:

There are some things to learn, and apply from gw1, however, it usually gets caught in gw1 vs gw2 instead of talking about what is strong, or what would transfer over well to gw1, and how to transfer it over.

I’ll give my opinion as someone who has played both Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2.

They are completely separate games. The feel, the goals, the systems… there is really nothing “similar” in the games, aside from the lore.

Talking about transitioning things from GW1 to GW2 just seems like a bad idea to me. GW2 has taken on a life of it’s own. It isn’t “the sequel to GW1”, instead it’s “that MMO that relies heavily on dodging and combat that actually makes realistic sense”.

If you really want a game that’s more like GW1, then start with a game that’s already close to it. Don’t take what people love about GW2 and twist it to fit what you think the “sequel” to GW1 should be like.

Maybe Guild Wars 3 will be closer to Guild Wars 1 than it is to 2. If so, then good for you. You’ll get the game you want. But me? I like GW2 how it is. I don’t want it to be fit into a mold just to be more like its “predecessor”. I like my game how it is, don’t ruin it for me in the name of nostalgia and/or legacy.

Well said….and I agree completely.

Nostalgia is one thing, but missing functionality that wouldn’t hurt the game confused me.

Replaying key missions
Saving/Sharing your entire builds
Selectable instances

How would these things break GW2 for people?

A lot of the stuff I miss from GW can’t be in GW2 simply because of how the lore of the world works, for the moment at least (/cough Dervish! /cough ), but there was nice functions that the previous game had that were great. Also, refining things in Gw2 like what choice actually means, how that functions wouldn’t hurt the game either.

Multi-class set ups, while missed, aren’t something I’d like to see.

*on a side note they could probably drop a Dervish class into the game and it wouldn’t require that much adjusting: seeing as how many weapons default attack hits multiple foes, its skills have a positive and negative effect (damage and heal), they have true Avatars , etc, but that’s just me. *

Saving/sharing builds is an interesting concept. I think that might work.

It’s coming, they’re working on it.

It works both ways btw. There was plenty of missing functionality in Guild Wars 1 that would prevent me from enjoying it, including a marketplace, and the ability to move while casting. Those two things alone change the whole deal for me.

I sold all my stuff in GW and bought Z-Keys which I gave to a guildie because I figured I had no need and was so excited for GW2.

Pathetically equipped toons and heroes await me if I ever return.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Hope they never ever listen to GW1 suggestions (khm…traits….khm)

you keep saying this, but im pretty sure its not accurate, can you point me to where people asked for existing traits to become unlocks? im pretty sure that never happened.

There was a thread, search function doesn’t work so good luck finding it, and in it the thread people were talking about how the old skill hunting stuff was great in Guild Wars 1 and we should bring it here. In that thread, many said it wouldn’t work for skills, there weren’t enough of them and you need them pretty early, but that it would work for traits.

It wasn’t a huge outcry in a bunch of threads, but skill hunting has come up a number of times and people said they liked it better than the way skills were in Guild Wars 2, just handed to you, and in every thread I can remember on the subject, it always shifted from skills to traits in the thread and always had at least some support.

Edit: It might have even been mentioned in the CDI thread on horizontal progression. I seem to remember that, but in that case, I can’t say for sure.

i remember the talk, i dont remember any one suggesting it for traits, if you can find these posts it will be good to read

notorious bob.2061:

So I logged back into my GW1 account yesterday, just to have a potter about for old times sake.

Did a few “solo” runs including some of the old stuff that I developed for the Ranger’s Beacon in The Jade Sea and The Deep.

Grabbed henchies and heroes and had a few bashes at dropping a froggy sceptre.

Took some folks on a guided tour of the Fissure

Went and capped a Black Widow solo – just because I could.

and then something stopped me in my tracks. I realised that I cared about my toons, felt connected to them. They had a personality and playing the game was FUN!

I’m not sure, but that might be because you spent longer with the GW1 characters than GW2 ones (at most, 2 years and a month versus at most . . . seven? Eight?. . . )

Most of what you described is repeating the same stuff “just because I can” – which is what I see some complaints about with regards GW2. “There’s nothing to do but the same stuff over and over.”

And most of that I got tired of halfway through Year Six of Guild Wars 1. I logged on for special events and . . . that was it. I did a few Zaishen Quests now and again, made a few more stabs at Legendary Defender of Ascalon . . . but after asking myself “Why?” I found myself just setting the game down and walking away.

I’ve done the same occasionally for GW2, as well as other games. (Minecraft, Civ5, Digital Devil Saga . . . )

More than that, I could play GW1 in various styles and no part of the game world was “off limits” or restricted.

I could technically do the Deep or Urgoz’s Warren, Fissure of Woe, et cetera . . . but I wouldn’t get far. So, it might as well not exist for me.

And that’s where GW2 has failed. Sure it looks pretty, but there simply isn’t the connection, my toons have no personality and the game is an un-ending grind for cosmetic skins, short term FPS “shoot and scoot” mentality and Anet wasting effort on trivial “improvements” rather than letting players PLAY in a style that suits them.

Sad that after such a short time GW2 has become a pale imitation of its predecessor.

I think it’s less a pale imitation of Guild Wars 1 (it was never meant to be) and more its own game. Whether I think that game is any good or not . . . depends on how I feel that day about the community.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Hope they never ever listen to GW1 suggestions (khm…traits….khm)

you keep saying this, but im pretty sure its not accurate, can you point me to where people asked for existing traits to become unlocks? im pretty sure that never happened.

There was a thread, search function doesn’t work so good luck finding it, and in it the thread people were talking about how the old skill hunting stuff was great in Guild Wars 1 and we should bring it here. In that thread, many said it wouldn’t work for skills, there weren’t enough of them and you need them pretty early, but that it would work for traits.

It wasn’t a huge outcry in a bunch of threads, but skill hunting has come up a number of times and people said they liked it better than the way skills were in Guild Wars 2, just handed to you, and in every thread I can remember on the subject, it always shifted from skills to traits in the thread and always had at least some support.

Edit: It might have even been mentioned in the CDI thread on horizontal progression. I seem to remember that, but in that case, I can’t say for sure.

i remember the talk, i dont remember any one suggesting it for traits, if you can find these posts it will be good to read

I don’t feel it’s imporant enough to go searching. I tend to post while playing Guild Wars 2. Looking through reams of old threads is quite a bit different. I remember people talking about it, but it’s definitely not worth the time to research it.

Keep in mind, I never bring up the topic anyway. I was just mentioning from my recollection it was talked about. But I don’t think there were a zillion threads or people talking about it. I just remember it being mentioned.

Boneheart.3561:

Swagger.1459:

Anet should run an adopt-a-dev for gw1 program so the team can experience all the things that players loved and give them a better development direction.

Unless they roll a Paragon.

Hey now… i liked my Paragon! LOL. I just had all my alts (mercenaries) do the heavy lifting, and I kept shouting things at them. Plus with my secondary as ranger, I’d throw the bear in the mix.

But getting back to the OP. I have developed a pretty deep connection to my characters in GW2, just as I did with GW1. Mind you a lot of it is due to my own backstories for said characters, and not GW2’s ability to define my personal story.

While I felt more connected to my Guild Wars 1 chars it was also my first game that wasn’t single player. In addition, it was the one I played for 4 years, as opposed to 2 here.

Time passes. Things are shinier when you are younger. And the phrase “time heals all wounds” applies also. The passage of time helps to cover up the times when you were bored back then and make them less intense than boredom now.

As someone who played GW2 before playing GW1, I have to say I think GW2 is much better. People’s initial impressions tend to shape their beliefs of how things should be moving forward.

The problem I have with GW2 getting close to “not working” is that each patch they do add a few nice things but they also ruin far more by taking it away from it’s initial (which I think were awesome) design goals.

Where you when GW1 die?
I was WoW
Ed ring, ‘GW1 ded’
‘No’

While I had some fun playing GW1, I really don’t think it was a good game. Meh, To each his/her own

I have to agree. My GW2 character does nothing special. There is nothing she does that a million other characters don’t do.

Relentliss.2170:

I have to agree. My GW2 character does nothing special. There is nothing she does that a million other characters don’t do.

I could say the same thing about my GW1 character. Or my D&D characters, or my MTG deck . . .

notorious bob.2061:

GW2 is not an MMORPG. It is, maybe a MMOFPS. There is no RPG in GW2 because there is no freedom to create anything other than cookie cutter toons. And at that there is a desire to make all classes the same. Take away the holy-trinity and every toon just becomes same old same old.

GW1 had WAY more RPG to it, way more Co-op and WAY more community.

not true, in Gw2 for some wierd reason people want to play just the most optimal build and nothing else but that doesnt mean you cannot create 1000s of variations. You got weapon skills, utility skills, elite skills, armor types, traits.

I dont know why people act like Gw1 was different, it had its meta builds too its just for some reason for these people in Gw1 playing your own sub optimal build was fine in Gw2 no way, you only play meta.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Relentliss.2170:

I have to agree. My GW2 character does nothing special. There is nothing she does that a million other characters don’t do.

I could say the same thing about my GW1 character. Or my D&D characters, or my MTG deck . . .

if your mtg deck isnt unique, thats by choice, they have so many possibilities, its probably way greater than 10 billion

Zero Day.2594:

To support phys…
In GW2 you basically choose which weapon you want to play, – and that’s pretty much the build.

You’re simplifying it too much. there is way more then that to Gw2.

Lets take the Necro staff for example.
It has skills that can heal, Crowd control, do direct damage, do Conditional damage etc.. What armor type are you going to wear to compliment that… well it depends on your intentions… if you want to mainly play support you’d use one set of armor, if you plan to do direct damage you use a different set of armor, if you plan to go conditional damage you use a different set of armor etc… Which runes do I put on that armor, again it depends on what main role you want to play

Thats not all, what trait lines and traits do you pick, again that depends on who role you will play.

But hey there is still utility skills… again which you pick depends on what your main role you intend to play

Which elite skill to pick etc…

Sure you weapon is at the center of your build but its not all of your build.

Zero Day.2594:

(Calling things “builds” in this game, actually kind of sickens me)
A GS on a warrior has 5 skills, you can’t change those, you build around them as best as you can. So a GS warrior will always work like a GS warrior…

well with all due respect if you’re looking for flexibility warrior is the worst choice you can make in gw2. Their weapons are too specialized unlike every other profession in gw2.

Zero Day.2594:

In GW1, you were able to pick your skills… so potentially two warriors with a sword/shield would have completely different builds and would work in different manners. And that’s not even getting into having the ability to switch between secondary professions…
Sorry but the skill/build system in GW1 has way more depth than GW2.

You can do that in gw2 without even needing to change your build.
Perhaps not so much with a warrior but I Play my necro with the same build in totally different ways dependent on the situation i am in. Of course that means sometimes I am playing in roles with a sub optimal build. If I am geared mostly for conditional damage and I am playing in a support role to help out my team I am not as best as I could be with the right gear, runes and traits which ultimately means there most definitely are other builds and there most definitely can be 2 same professions with different builds that play differently. The problem with Gw2 isnt that there is no build diversity its that players refuse to play anything apart from the best DPS build possible.

Zero Day.2594:

@Noah
Basically, GW2 as a successor lacks depth in very department (story, builds, even endgame) in comparison to it’s predecessor GW1.
Many GW1 fans, including myself, fell for the GuildWars title in the GuildWars 2. Hence the frustration for what could have been.

I disagree. there are definitely things that Gw1 does better, even a lot better like offering a real challenge, Most combat customization during setup, even a more dark mature atmosphere But there are plenty of things that Gw2 provides a lot more depth too like exploration, a world that feels more alive, way more flexiblity in executing combat etc..

Both title have their strengths and weaknesses

To answer the OP, my take on why GW2 isn’t working would be that

1) The game just doesn’t bring a whole lot of what one’d call ‘meaningful’ to the table – things that make a game fun.
From what I remember and what I am now reading on the forums, they’re actually even removing that ‘meaningful’ from the game (NPE changes to low level zones), the ‘little things’ that make a game stand out from the rest . It’s becoming more and more a typical faceless grinder with an ig shop.

2) You don’t feel like a hero in any kind of way.
GW was actually REALLY good at that, largely owing to how it was designed (instanced content, naturally, played an important part in that regard) – the ability to solo, to ‘carry’ the team through skillful play, the story itself, how your skills actually DID stuff and were anything but generic); in GW2, you have the personal story that goes ‘you you you’ while everything else is one generic blob of mass, and the lack of properly defined roles in pve did not help in that regard (pvp is slightly better, but still horribly limited in terms of diversity).

3) Don’t fix what ain’t broken.
GW2 must be getting some twisted kind of satisfaction in continually doing just that.

4) Less is more.
It really is. If you’d strip all the fluff from GW2 that I like calling illusionary content (AP, vistas, PoIs, the for-the-most-part-useless crafting, food boosts, a horribly dragged out levelling system, the gozzilion conditions and boons) and focus more on content and features that make fun (feel challenging, rewarding, interesting, you name it), the game might not be as criticized as it is (well, the pve side of it, at least).
Instead, the current focus is lying on adding more and more and more to the game…but especially to the cash shop. However what players typically get there are lacklustre, shallow ‘additions’ completely cut off from the game itself – how anyone is able to like/tolerate that year-on-year is frankly beyond me. There is no depth in buying stuff from the cash shop, or the TP, and no challenge either (unless the economist in you is strong, and you have an SM tendency).
And before the naysayers come in claiming the opposite, do listen to these vids first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs (on challenge) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWFzFsHc75U (on depth)

5) Horribly subpar overall quality – the game is ridden with bugs, bad/inaccurate/misleading skill descriptions, and 2 years in, things still don’t seem to be changing much in that regard, or are changing at a glacial pace.
GW was never that bug ridden, and when a game-breaking bug was found, it was fixed immediately (sometimes including a roll-back). And the skill descriptions were always done well – clear, concise and to the point. GW2 really dropped the ball in that regard.

6) The pvp.
It’s one of the things that play a key role in game longevity, and it flopped hard in GW2. Tough luck, as it is a major disappointment to all of us who love/d the pvp in GW. Too many things to list as far as reasons are concerned, but things must have gone terribly amiss (talking a 180 degree turn here) somewhere in the design/development process, because the game was clearly intended to have at least some sort of depth, yet the pve in particular does not capitalize on (any of) that option(s), in effect turning most of the content into a generic spank&dodge fest, or zerg galores. I wonder what happened there.

7) GW had a really sound foundation in pve, but especially in pvp, and designing a game completely from scratch was just a really bad call imo. But there’s nothing to be done in that regard anymore.

8) The game might actually be working out in Anet’s opinion (after all, we don’t know the exact metrics to measure their business success), but from many players’ point of view, the game turned its back on them, and it’s honestly depressing to see them throw away without as much as a second thought all the goodwill they had build up with GW. A true pity, I’d say.

Those are just the first few things that come to mind.

On a side note, if I’d compare my GW vs GW2 NPE, arriving to ascalon for the first time felt like a fresh sunny dawn full of things to discover, while starting out in GW2 could be likened to a crash in a swamp without any real sense of direction (and no, I don’t want arrowz and pointers to guide me arround, or have things and features locked behind levels).

IndigoSundown.5419:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Hope they never ever listen to GW1 suggestions (khm…traits….khm)

you keep saying this, but im pretty sure its not accurate, can you point me to where people asked for existing traits to become unlocks? im pretty sure that never happened.

People asked for GW2 to add something like unlocking Elite skills in GW. I’m pretty sure they weren’t talking about redoing the traits, though. What they were really looking for was new skills, new Elites especially and new content to unlock them in. What we got instead was a trait revamp, which is very unlike GW Elite capture. ANet puts their own twists on player requests. I’m pretty sure a lot of people who wanted gear progression were unhappy with ANet’s version, and a lot who wanted raids were unhappy with instance taxiing to do Teq.

I think what Mika is saying is, “With ANet, be careful what you ask for, you may not recognize it when you get it.”

Exactly. I think this is a big problem we have. People want parts of what they loved in Gw1 or other MMOs to be integrated in Gw2 but sometimes they dont stop and think how exactly what they’re asking for would fit in Gw2 and when Anet listens and implements what they’re asking for then they find the implementation is actually something they hate rather then something they enjoy.

I am sure this was the case here. People wanted more horizontal progression and yes Phys is right what they intended was probably elite skill captures but there is no way to translate that 1:1 from gw1 to gw2… even if they put those skills on world bosses (apart from tequalt and wurm perhaps) it would be just a breeze to capture them all unlike gw1 which actually took an effort. In gw2 you got zergs that trivialize any content when they want to, in Gw1 you couldnt do that. What they did with the traits was the natural way to do something like that in Gw2.

This has also happened before, when Anet introduced Ascended armor they made it acquirable using laurels. 20 dailies would get you a single piece. People were angry cause all it took to finish a daily was 30 mins and felt all the other hours they were making were being wasted so they wanted a none time gated way of earning them. They didnt stop and analyse why 20 dailies… Anet wanted players to take 20 days to earn a piece to increase their longevity most likely because they really dont want to ever add a new tier so the existent tier has last as long as possible. Anet listened and now those same people are complaining about how grindy it is.

bottom line is people seem to just focus on what they want and dont try to take the effort to understand of why things are implement the way they are or what the game is trying to achieve and thus end up wishing for stuff they actually dont really want.

phys.7689:

IndigoSundown.5419:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Hope they never ever listen to GW1 suggestions (khm…traits….khm)

you keep saying this, but im pretty sure its not accurate, can you point me to where people asked for existing traits to become unlocks? im pretty sure that never happened.

People asked for GW2 to add something like unlocking Elite skills in GW. I’m pretty sure they weren’t talking about redoing the traits, though. What they were really looking for was new skills, new Elites especially and new content to unlock them in. What we got instead was a trait revamp, which is very unlike GW Elite capture. ANet puts their own twists on player requests. I’m pretty sure a lot of people who wanted gear progression were unhappy with ANet’s version, and a lot who wanted raids were unhappy with instance taxiing to do Teq.

I think what Mika is saying is, “With ANet, be careful what you ask for, you may not recognize it when you get it.”

based on his past interactions, im pretty sure he is saying that literally people were asking for traits to be unlocked.
His argument wouldnt make sense otherwise, he basically uses it as justification that they shouldnt listen to players.

And what you said is correct, the discussion for unlocks was centered around how they chose to add new skills, which was generally, pay 25-50 skill points being a bad, and not engaging mechanic, and even if that was how they wanted to do it, also they should offer an alternate method, for new skills to be aquired. They also said it should/could have an unlock method in context with the skill.

but yes, it wasnt what people were asking for, and it really wasnt executed with the same spirit that it was intended.

Their decision to revamp traits is directly linked to GW1 whines about skill capture and how “awesome” it was.

Now other 95% of playerbase has to suffer the consequences.

So yeah, no more listening to GW1 whines….ever.

But thats not isolated case, no more listening to small groups like:

raiders
dungeon runners
vertical progression whiners (although lot of damage is already done with ascended)
trinity whiners (although some damage was already done)
hardcore whiners
farmer whiners
….
….
….
And that pretty much easily covers 90%+ whines on forums (not just this one)

Kurrilino.2706:

-Multiple skills to choose from
-Bring back death penalty
-Bring back Monster Necros who raise stuff from our bodys
-Take away reviving from everyone but Guardian and Necro
- Bring back Cantha and Elona

this is the only thing i see making this comunity great as it onced was

Multiple skills to choose from problems:
GW2 reduced number of skills was a design choice…
Look at this skill in GW1 Flare
This one took so long to get somewhat usable, at the end of GW1 development cycle…
Not to mention the issue of many skills that do the same thing, some might be more powerful, then many skills would fall into complete disuse…

Bring back death penalty
We do have death penalty, once the DP indicator is red, next down goes immedietely to Defeated state. Might not be the same, but endless down-revive/rally within short time span is impossible.

Bring back Monster Necros who raise stuff from our bodys
Well, there’s one post that addresses this issue in this topic, in open world PvE there’d be constant fight of who exploits this corpse first among necromancers…

Then again, GW2 Necromancers used to raise the dead by expending their lifeforce gauge.

Take away reviving from everyone but Guardian and Necro
You saying we have to go back to the “LFG healer guard, No kittenty professions like thieves and engineers = kick!”…

Bring back Cantha and Elona
Hopefully in the future…

Main problem lies in the design of PvE, 99% of mobs are trash, they’re designed to die quick, which limits effectiveness of builds other than direct dmg DPS.

Once there’s better mob designs in game, more reason to play other builds in PvE, since we’d not be limited to 1% of mobs with 2/3 of builds.
Every build should be able to complete content like DPS builds…

Jski.6180:

If GW2 is not working then why has it out lasted 2 major mmorpg that play a lot like it? .

I’d say because of WWW.

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

IndigoSundown.5419:

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Hope they never ever listen to GW1 suggestions (khm…traits….khm)

you keep saying this, but im pretty sure its not accurate, can you point me to where people asked for existing traits to become unlocks? im pretty sure that never happened.

People asked for GW2 to add something like unlocking Elite skills in GW. I’m pretty sure they weren’t talking about redoing the traits, though. What they were really looking for was new skills, new Elites especially and new content to unlock them in. What we got instead was a trait revamp, which is very unlike GW Elite capture. ANet puts their own twists on player requests. I’m pretty sure a lot of people who wanted gear progression were unhappy with ANet’s version, and a lot who wanted raids were unhappy with instance taxiing to do Teq.

I think what Mika is saying is, “With ANet, be careful what you ask for, you may not recognize it when you get it.”

based on his past interactions, im pretty sure he is saying that literally people were asking for traits to be unlocked.
His argument wouldnt make sense otherwise, he basically uses it as justification that they shouldnt listen to players.

And what you said is correct, the discussion for unlocks was centered around how they chose to add new skills, which was generally, pay 25-50 skill points being a bad, and not engaging mechanic, and even if that was how they wanted to do it, also they should offer an alternate method, for new skills to be aquired. They also said it should/could have an unlock method in context with the skill.

but yes, it wasnt what people were asking for, and it really wasnt executed with the same spirit that it was intended.

Their decision to revamp traits is directly linked to GW1 whines about skill capture and how “awesome” it was.

Now other 95% of playerbase has to suffer the consequences.

So yeah, no more listening to GW1 whines….ever.

But thats not isolated case, no more listening to small groups like:

raiders
dungeon runners
vertical progression whiners (although lot of damage is already done with ascended)
trinity whiners (although some damage was already done)
hardcore whiners
farmer whiners
….
….
….
And that pretty much easily covers 90%+ whines on forums (not just this one)

but the people werent asking for a system that made old skills require new expensive costs, they were talking about additional skills they add, like the heal which costed 25 skill points.
They were like getting new skills for some obscene amount of points is lame, how about you create an alternate means for those that want to explore.

no one told them to do it retroactively for traits, no one said to dramatically increase the costs of obtaining traits or skills.

So saying this is what people asked for is inaccurate. It would have been substantially different, in fact it probably would have been highly loved, if they added 5 skills to each class, and you had an option of paying 25-30 skillpoints (what they were already selecting for new skills at the time) or doing something in the game world, preferably something that made sense with that skill being there.

they missed the intent, overshot the scope of the change, and poorly executed it. I dont think you can blame posters for that.