Guild Wars 2

Dee Jay.2460:

The whole Ascended gear is just so poorly conceived from front to end. It makes no sense. Nothing in the game is better or more rewarding because of Ascended gear. It just pigenholes you character into a single build and play-style while asking you to grind ridiculous amounts of material only so a certain abundant material can have some economical value.

It’s like how “luck” was supposed to make greens and blues more appreciated and curb inflation. Yet all it does is create more and once people have 300 Magic Find, then what?

Just like with all the new currencies ANet introduced, none of them have a long-term plan. Everything is add-hoc and never thought through to the end.

ANet has brilliant artists and animators,
They have competent programmers,
They have a fairly management,
but in terms of game-design, they don’t seem to have a clue what they’re doing.

Good summary of anets strengths and weaknesses. I’d add project management as a clear weakness, and QA as well.

morrolan.9608:

Dee Jay.2460:

The whole Ascended gear is just so poorly conceived from front to end. It makes no sense. Nothing in the game is better or more rewarding because of Ascended gear. It just pigenholes you character into a single build and play-style while asking you to grind ridiculous amounts of material only so a certain abundant material can have some economical value.

It’s like how “luck” was supposed to make greens and blues more appreciated and curb inflation. Yet all it does is create more and once people have 300 Magic Find, then what?

Just like with all the new currencies ANet introduced, none of them have a long-term plan. Everything is add-hoc and never thought through to the end.

ANet has brilliant artists and animators,
They have competent programmers,
They have a fairly management,
but in terms of game-design, they don’t seem to have a clue what they’re doing.

Good summary of anets strengths and weaknesses. I’d add project management as a clear weakness, and QA as well.

Bad QA would imply bad launch, I’d like to think this game had one of best launches in the industry. Rushed aspects of the game can’t be tested, E.G. Zhaitan. Simple math.

petespri.6548:

Sins.4782:

A player in full ascended equipment has 179 more stat points from equipment than a player in full exotic (assuming 2h weapon), as well as ~5% higher weapon attack (yes, this means 5% higher damage, unless you’re using bundles for main damage) and ~5% higher defense on armor. A player using the maximum number of +stat infusions would have 249 more stat points than the player in full exotic. I would hardly call a 10% increase in stats from equipment ‘insignificant’.

I’ve heard this a number of times, but would like clarification.

1. 10% stats is a lot. Can anyone link 2 builds that compares and shows this?

2. Even assuming it is a full 10%, what is the full percentage when you compare player A to player B when adding in stats from the toon before gear. What is the absolute stat difference?

I am very curious, thanks!

ps- My big reason for not going with CRAFTED ascended is that it locks me into one style of build. Berserker? Hope you never want to play Condi, Support, or any other hybrid or mix of gear build. That is not my style. I do however use the rings, amulet, trinkets. Working on a back piece slowly, and maybe a weapon (gasp) after that.

I’m not very certain if the calculation is right. (but my results seemed to be consistent with other people) Basically from what I’m told Damage = (Weapon Damage * Power * Skill Coefficient)/Armor.

Base on that, my guardian will do 5.45% more damage by just switching to ascended greatsword. (My guardian have berseker exotic armor with travel rune, ascended jewel, and defensive traits).

From what I’m told, ascended heavy armor have 60 more defense than exotic heavy armor. That is about 2.78% damage reduction for me.

I presume there’s also some difference in infusion slots that makes some difference.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ascended-Armor-Calculated-Heavy-only

Obviously going by the numbers, you should get ascended weapon first. Since ascended weapon itself gives more difference than 6 piece of ascended armor.

So…

How many people are going to be upset about the upcoming legendary amulets?

Switchable stat would make ascended worth it price tag more. However, that will make legendary seem less worth it. A compromise will be for ascended stat to be changeable through a npc merchant that charges about 1g per item. Low enough that it wouldn’t hurt too much to change build but high enough that players cannot simply switch on a whim.

Transcended gear plis.

nothing crazy about getting ascended… i threw 600g at an emperor title cuz my 25 ascended weapons and 2 legendaries left me with nothing else to buy.

run dungeons, run them well. i dont even use the trading post and i have too much money all the time. the level of entitlement in this game is absurd. “NEEDMOHANDOUTS!”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/upgrading-ascended-armor/first#post3566208

i made some weeks ago a suggestion to upgrade asc armor to change stats on it.

CETheLucid.3964:

Sirendor.1394:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You don’t need Ascended armor. The stat increase over Exotics is minor. So if you’ve given up on getting these, you can still play the game as normal.

This argument has been used countless times. It has been countered countless times too… so stop using it. It doesn’t change the nature of ascended armour.

Yes. Your counter is that the minor stat gain from ascended is a huge game changer. The argument is that, no, it really isn’t.

Okay, so why do we need ascended at all if they are just a tiny stat gain anyways?

COUNTERED

Brutality.9631:

nothing crazy about getting ascended… i threw 600g at an emperor title cuz my 25 ascended weapons and 2 legendaries left me with nothing else to buy.

run dungeons, run them well. i dont even use the trading post and i have too much money all the time. the level of entitlement in this game is absurd. “NEEDMOHANDOUTS!”

I know a guy who has three of every precursor (1-3, rather) not including the skins and other items he has just sitting around.

He’s the richest player in my server and one of the richest from GW1. Guess what; I’m not as rich as him.

Surprising, I know. Who knew that people could be luckier than others?!

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You don’t need Ascended armor. The stat increase over Exotics is minor. So if you’ve given up on getting these, you can still play the game as normal.

People like you are the reason wurm can’t be beaten.

Yes the stats do matter. They offer a 5-15% damage increase. That is a HUGE amount of damage when everything in this game is a dps race.

If you don’t think that much damage matters then please don’t show up to the wurm event or any timed event that is introduced from this point forward.

Have you ever considered that you fail at wurm, because of, you?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You don’t need Ascended armor. The stat increase over Exotics is minor. So if you’ve given up on getting these, you can still play the game as normal.

Why have it in the game at all then? If it doesn’t matter, why create the kitten storm and aggravate the unhappy hordes for something so small? If there was so little pay off for it, why not say “we don’t want a new tier for BiS, lets work on cosmetic and other forms of horizontal progression”. Ascended was an unnecessary knee jerk reaction and for all the people it pleased (who wouldn’t have been pleased without it, plenty of people didn’t care about exotic as the final tier) look at all the people ascended alienated.

Also consider the other drawbacks to ascended. A ranger in Rabid gear will use a totally different build to a ranger in Berserker. Josh Foreman posted about how they want players to look at their builds and traits and experiment a little more (when talking about the Marionette). When your armour stats are the foundation of your build, making it so dramatically inflexible that players feel like whatever stat choice they make, it’s a long term one, that’s a terrible way to foster build diversity.

I like it the way it is now. Ascended gear could give a bit more stats than it is now, or there could be a bit better infusions (like 10 power instead of 5 power / 5 agony if we choose it), but overall the idea is great. Thanks to this gear I have a reason to play and once I finish one set, I can start crafting another with different stats. My goal is to make at least 3 sets fully infused with 5/5. Even if they nerf some stats and I’ll have to start making a new set from scratch, it’s OK, because I’ll keep the old set anyway and maybe someday it will be still the best set.

“Ascended gear is there because something was needed to entice people to keep playing the game.”

“Ascended gear isn’t enticing because it’s such a minor stat boost.”

The cognitive dissonance in this community is strong.

I don’t really care for either crafting a Legendary or this Ascended armor. I like obtaining the best gear in the game through actual gameplay. But that’ll never happen in GW2.

Gibson.4036:

“Ascended gear is there because something was needed to entice people to keep playing the game.”

“Ascended gear isn’t enticing because it’s such a minor stat boost.”

The cognitive dissonance in this community is strong.

Exactly.

Gibson.4036:

“Ascended gear is there because something was needed to entice people to keep playing the game.”

“Ascended gear isn’t enticing because it’s such a minor stat boost.”

The cognitive dissonance in this community is strong.

I fail to recognize any dissonance here. It just says ascended gear doesn’t serve it’s purpose.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

echo.2053:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Lévis.5489:

The bad part about ascended is getting shoehorned into crafting, instead of giving us easier ways to acquire them.

Then there would be “nothing to do”. I would prefer it if they gated ascended gear behind challenging, but instanced, content. That way you would earn it by doing challenging, heroic content instead of sitting at a crafting station and stretching the limits of your patience. Not to mention your wallet as well.

Surely this wouldn’t be a problem for the people who run around in blue gear and “play how they want”. Because ascended doesn’t matter, right?

Lol so your saying if they guaranteed ascended through content then you’d all of a sudden stop caring about the player in blue gear? Exotic dungeon gear that has been easily obtained has been available since day 1 of the game. If he is still in blues chances are putting it behind content still won’t make him change out of his blue gear.

Let’s stop beating around the bush: fact is you want the instant gratification of bis gear with the least amount of effort and cost all the while complaining how mats and loot holds no value and is in overwhelming supply.

With all this posting you do in the forums, you should put it towards learning to read what people say.

I have a high post count. That says nothing for how often I post. If you’ve read 20+ ascended threads, you’ve read em’ all.

Though I am posting in one, so hey. I might be insane. You got me there.

But telling me to be insane and read these countless QQ threads about ascended gear is bad advice. I never needed you to tell me to do that. Here I am.

You’ll find me in others.

But I figure I’ll spare the sane ones. You’re giving crazy advice. No one sane or a non-masochist should subject themselves to that.
_

Appreciate the recap though.

I wouldn’t protest if they gated ascended gear behind challenging content with a crafting option. That would make everyone happy.

Instanced, no. That’s stupid. It’s an MMO.

If you want to work for it with like minded people in the game, that’s a good, fun, community building way to do it.

You’ll be directly contributing to getting those exotic (and less) noobs into ascended gear. Win/win.

If you want to craft it without all that teamwork business, the option remains.

But to say to make it an instance is essentially taking the community out of the game. That’s antithetical to what an MMO is.

In short, Dark Catalyst I agree with you. In part.

Sirendor.1394:

CETheLucid.3964:

Sirendor.1394:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You don’t need Ascended armor. The stat increase over Exotics is minor. So if you’ve given up on getting these, you can still play the game as normal.

This argument has been used countless times. It has been countered countless times too… so stop using it. It doesn’t change the nature of ascended armour.

Yes. Your counter is that the minor stat gain from ascended is a huge game changer. The argument is that, no, it really isn’t.

Okay, so why do we need ascended at all if they are just a tiny stat gain anyways?

COUNTERED

You’re a little late with that argument, as it’s already there. We have it. It’s done. Non-sequitur. Try again.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Raine.1394:

And, regardless, Mike O himself described the increase in the power level of the game from the initial pieces as roughly 5-10%. I’ll go with the Anet figure here.

What I find interesting is the upcoming conversion of critical damage to Ferocity, which is supposed to remove ~10% from the top DPS builds. If the range you’re citing is correct, then critical builds are going to be at the top of that curve due to the increases to critical damage provided by full Ascended gear — and they’ll be losing that 10%, soon. Critical builds with exotics will be hit less, even if the Ferocity scaling is linear, because of lower critical chance.

I think a 10% gain is reasonable in the first year given that Anet said the first pieces represented a 5-10% increase in the power level of the game. We are now beyond the first pieces. The 10% would most likely represent the berserker end of the spectrum. I, too, noticed that the nerf to the power level of the game was 10% with the ferocity change. This is, of course, one way to achieve overall game balance under VP. Normally, as the power level increases you need to buff the environment to make combat non-trivial. But, it’s also possible to nerf the gear that everyone has worked all year to grind out. In this case, Anet giveth and Anet taketh away.

CETheLucid.3964:

Sirendor.1394:

CETheLucid.3964:

Sirendor.1394:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You don’t need Ascended armor. The stat increase over Exotics is minor. So if you’ve given up on getting these, you can still play the game as normal.

This argument has been used countless times. It has been countered countless times too… so stop using it. It doesn’t change the nature of ascended armour.

Yes. Your counter is that the minor stat gain from ascended is a huge game changer. The argument is that, no, it really isn’t.

Okay, so why do we need ascended at all if they are just a tiny stat gain anyways?

COUNTERED

You’re a little late with that argument, as it’s already there. We have it. It’s done. Non-sequitur. Try again.

No actually, this proves that ascended should not have been introduced AND should be deleted.

I never understand how a piece of knights armor can be enough to make you a “bad” but ascended advantages are insignificant.

Note: this ignores infusions, which just make the difference greater

Math (hold on)
damage = weapon damage * power * skill coefficient (skill) * (1 + crit chance (cc) * crit damage (cd) ) / armor

using ‘a’ as a prefix for ascended
power = p
skill coefficient = skill
crit change = cc
crid damage = cd
armor = armor
x = multiplier to compare ascended to exotic

you get:

awd * ap * skill * (1 + acc * acd) / armor = x * wd * p * skill * (1 + cc * cd) / armor

simplifying you get

awd * ap * (1 + acc * acd) = x *wd * p * (1 + cc * dd)

Using Nike’s dungeon running warrior build
For exotic, I’m using http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFARjkOxwpQuQMxBAzDAAAgLDAAQfAAA-jkxAYLgkXR0YLuFRjVtgpKJiq9GFRrGA-w
For ascended, I’m using http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFARjkOxwpQuQMxBAzDAAAgLDAAQfAAA-jUBBYfAZmFRjt4qIas6aYKXER1A-w

1155 * 2468 * (1 + .51 * (.94 + .5)) = x * 1100 * 2383 * (1 + .49 * (.84 + .5))
1155 * 2468 * (1 + .51 * 1.44) = x * 1100 * 2383 * ( 1 +.49 * 1.34)
2850540 * 1.7344 = x * 2621300 * 1.6566
4943977 = x * 4342446

X = 4943977 / 4342446 = 1.1385

Therefore, full ascended berserker gear is at least 13.85% more effective (DPS) than the same build with exotic gear.

I never liked Ascended gear. And I will never have it unless Anet vastly reduces the costs to acquire. All Ascended gear does is pigeonhole players into the single playstyle their gear allows. Want to experiment with alternate playstyles, builds, or game areas (WvW/PvE)? Too bad, you just sunk all your time/gold into 1 stat set.

Thankfully, exotic is still more than enough to accomplish any game area.

Gibson.4036:

“Ascended gear is there because something was needed to entice people to keep playing the game.”

“Ascended gear isn’t enticing because it’s such a minor stat boost.”

The cognitive dissonance in this community is strong.

You are locating the source of the cognitive dissonance in the wrong community. Anet obviously introduced vertical progression (not ascended gear) to give players a reason to play. I mean, that is the main goal of VP on the developer side and why you would introduce it. But, they also said it would be on a low power curve.

This is the source of the dissonance and why the community argues in an irrational manner. Some people defend Anet by saying that the VP is inconsequential and not needed. Others, experienced gamers, realize that VP doesn’t progress by stopping and that, regardless, we are already at a material increase in the power level of the game.

The low power curve is too much for those who came to the GW franchise to escape VP; and, it is not enough to satisfy the true grinder that VP has created in other games. The cognitive dissonance was introduced into the community when VP was introduced into the game.

Escadin.9482:

I fail to recognize any dissonance here. It just says ascended gear doesn’t serve it’s purpose.

Except those statements are being used to defend ascended gear.

Sirendor.1394:

CETheLucid.3964:

Sirendor.1394:

CETheLucid.3964:

Sirendor.1394:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You don’t need Ascended armor. The stat increase over Exotics is minor. So if you’ve given up on getting these, you can still play the game as normal.

This argument has been used countless times. It has been countered countless times too… so stop using it. It doesn’t change the nature of ascended armour.

Yes. Your counter is that the minor stat gain from ascended is a huge game changer. The argument is that, no, it really isn’t.

Okay, so why do we need ascended at all if they are just a tiny stat gain anyways?

COUNTERED

You’re a little late with that argument, as it’s already there. We have it. It’s done. Non-sequitur. Try again.

No actually, this proves that ascended should not have been introduced AND should be deleted.

Hahahahahahahaha

lets look at a tanky build

Exotic http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFASjkOxwpQuQMxBA0DAAAgjCAAQfAAA-j0xAoLgsXR0YLjFRjVtgpKTq+UQ2bUEtaA-w
Ascended http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFASjkOxwpQuQMxBA0DAAAgjCAAQfAAA-jkBBofApmFRjtMqIas6aYKXJVFTQGA-w

1166 * 2110 * (1 + .21 * 1.09) = x * 1111 * 2060 * (1 + .22 * 1.01)
3023414 = x * 2797200

x = 1.0809

So even a tanky build gets 8.09% more damage out of ascended gear.

And a full tank (exotic http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFASjkOxwpQuQMxBA0DAAAgjCAAQfAAA-jkxAoLgsXR0YLjFRjVvgpLJiq94FRrGA-w, ascended http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQFASjkOxwpQuQMxBA0DAAAgjCAAQfAAA-jUBBofApmFRjtMqIasKbYqXER1A-w)

skipping the math, because use a spreadsheet.

But the difference is 12% more damage.

So if you really want to talk about how ascended gear doesn’t matter, please explain to me why 8-13% additional damage is insignificant.

CETheLucid.3964:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

echo.2053:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Lévis.5489:

The bad part about ascended is getting shoehorned into crafting, instead of giving us easier ways to acquire them.

Then there would be “nothing to do”. I would prefer it if they gated ascended gear behind challenging, but instanced, content. That way you would earn it by doing challenging, heroic content instead of sitting at a crafting station and stretching the limits of your patience. Not to mention your wallet as well.

Surely this wouldn’t be a problem for the people who run around in blue gear and “play how they want”. Because ascended doesn’t matter, right?

Lol so your saying if they guaranteed ascended through content then you’d all of a sudden stop caring about the player in blue gear? Exotic dungeon gear that has been easily obtained has been available since day 1 of the game. If he is still in blues chances are putting it behind content still won’t make him change out of his blue gear.

Let’s stop beating around the bush: fact is you want the instant gratification of bis gear with the least amount of effort and cost all the while complaining how mats and loot holds no value and is in overwhelming supply.

With all this posting you do in the forums, you should put it towards learning to read what people say.

I have a high post count. That says nothing for how often I post. If you’ve read 20+ ascended threads, you’ve read em’ all.

Though I am posting in one, so hey. I might be insane. You got me there.

But telling me to be insane and read these countless QQ threads about ascended gear is bad advice. I never needed you to tell me to do that. Here I am.

You’ll find me in others.

But I figure I’ll spare the sane ones. You’re giving crazy advice. No one sane or a non-masochist should subject themselves to that.
_

Appreciate the recap though.

I wouldn’t protest if they gated ascended gear behind challenging content with a crafting option. That would make everyone happy.

Instanced, no. That’s stupid. It’s an MMO.

If you want to work for it with like minded people in the game, that’s a good, fun, community building way to do it.

You’ll be directly contributing to getting those exotic (and less) noobs into ascended gear. Win/win.

If you want to craft it without all that teamwork business, the option remains.

But to say to make it an instance is essentially taking the community out of the game. That’s antithetical to what an MMO is.

In short, Dark Catalyst I agree with you. In part.

Sirendor.1394:

CETheLucid.3964:

Sirendor.1394:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You don’t need Ascended armor. The stat increase over Exotics is minor. So if you’ve given up on getting these, you can still play the game as normal.

This argument has been used countless times. It has been countered countless times too… so stop using it. It doesn’t change the nature of ascended armour.

Yes. Your counter is that the minor stat gain from ascended is a huge game changer. The argument is that, no, it really isn’t.

Okay, so why do we need ascended at all if they are just a tiny stat gain anyways?

COUNTERED

You’re a little late with that argument, as it’s already there. We have it. It’s done. Non-sequitur. Try again.

Not sure why you’re quoting me, considering I neither addressed you, nor did anything you say have anything really to do with me. .-.

Shiren.9532:

Why have it in the game at all then?

Because Anet crunched the numbers and came up with Number Of People Happy To Grind For BiS Shinies > Number Of People Unhappy About Having To Grind For BiS Shinies. And frankly, I’m pretty sure that Number Of People Who Don’t Give A Hoot About Grinding For BiS Shinies is bigger than both of them.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Not sure why you’re quoting me, considering I neither addressed you, nor did anything you say have anything really to do with me. .-.

Of course. Honest mistake, the quote doesn’t show the entire convo which included Dark Catalyst’s relevant quote. This is what I was addressing.

After that, a much appreciated impromptu recap by you. Spared me a lot of BS you did. Sorry for the mix up.

echo.2053:

Lol the funny part of it is that you go to these events and just see 20-30 zerkers get laid out by an attack. Fact your of less use dead or in down state then that person in blues. Then let’s be truly honest with ourselves with how easy and cheap it is to obtain exotics, even rares at the very least you are waaaay over exaggerating some one being in blues lol.

It just reminds me of my favorite saying: “Dead DPS don’t.”
I’ve pulled plenty of victories out of near-wipe situations just because my warrior can ignore and survive over half of the game’s damage mechanics. (Of course, he’s fully kitted in only “measly” Exotic gear. Woe. ;_;)

ZudetGambeous.9573:

MrInfinit.1864:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You don’t need Ascended armor. The stat increase over Exotics is minor. So if you’ve given up on getting these, you can still play the game as normal.

People like you are the reason wurm can’t be beaten.

Yes the stats do matter. They offer a 5-15% damage increase. That is a HUGE amount of damage when everything in this game is a dps race.

If you don’t think that much damage matters then please don’t show up to the wurm event or any timed event that is introduced from this point forward.

People like you is what makes me happy that ArenaNet hasn’t implemented gear inspection, and also has kept ‘raids’ open world!

why? if raids were instanced you and all your friends in blues could get together and do the content? oh wait… no you couldn’t because you rely on the people in ascended to carry you through the current open world content already…

Then people with real lives would quit this game and GW2 will be filled with stuck up elitists.

Elitists will play the game regardless as long as there is gear progression/grind. It just satisfies their self-centered ego, and they are so eager to push that upon others. But once Anet allows those players to discriminate the people that have jobs/friends/life, it will 100% nail the coffin for the game.

Astraea.6075:

Sins.4782:

Warlord.9074:

Stats matter when they give a clear advantage, Ascended armor by itself not including ascended trinkets do not give a clear advantage in this game. If you can prove that if 1 player with ascended armor and another with exotics that the player will 100% beat the other player in a 1v1 with exotics Ill hear you out. Or have any numerical real world advantage outside a calculator or spread sheet id eat my words.

Do you not understand how stats work or something? If someone has 50 power more than someone else, then they are 50 power stronger. It’s not hard math.

And without context, 50 power more is just 50 power more. A meaningless number.

Right. Say it takes and average of 10 hits to kill something. Ascended zerk armor have 14 more power, 11 more precision, and 1% more crit damage. From a pool of say 2000 power (if you spec for DPS), do you think that difference will bring the average down to 9 hits? I don’t think so. Maybe it will bring the average down to 99 from 100 hits.

Gibson.4036:

“Ascended gear is there because something was needed to entice people to keep playing the game.”

“Ascended gear isn’t enticing because it’s such a minor stat boost.”

The cognitive dissonance in this community is strong.

Even if it is abysmal, it is enough to keep the sheeps going.

Asumita.2174:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

why? if raids were instanced you and all your friends in blues could get together and do the content? oh wait… no you couldn’t because you rely on the people in ascended to carry you through the current open world content already…

Then people with real lives would quit this game and GW2 will be filled with stuck up elitists.

Elitists will play the game regardless as long as there is gear progression/grind. It just satisfies their self-centered ego, and they are so eager to push that upon others. But once Anet allows those players to discriminate the people that have jobs/friends/life, it will 100% nail the coffin for the game.

What the hell? Are you saying people who strive to master a game in general are elitists (in other words “people with self-centered ego”)? Or are you especially concerned about those mastering games which are focused on VP?

I am not that kind of person, but quite frankly if someone spents his free time becoming the best virtual racedriver, streetfighter, multi-tasking prodigy or best geared fantasyworld hero then he / she deserves to feel special in that department.

How is it discrimination if these people play through the whole game and don’t have to share their reward with those who didn’t make such an effort? You are not in competition PvE wise and all that gear can’t be brought to PvP anyway.

Asumita.2174:

Astraea.6075:

Sins.4782:

Warlord.9074:

Stats matter when they give a clear advantage, Ascended armor by itself not including ascended trinkets do not give a clear advantage in this game. If you can prove that if 1 player with ascended armor and another with exotics that the player will 100% beat the other player in a 1v1 with exotics Ill hear you out. Or have any numerical real world advantage outside a calculator or spread sheet id eat my words.

Do you not understand how stats work or something? If someone has 50 power more than someone else, then they are 50 power stronger. It’s not hard math.

And without context, 50 power more is just 50 power more. A meaningless number.

Right. Say it takes and average of 10 hits to kill something. Ascended zerk armor have 14 more power, 11 more precision, and 1% more crit damage. From a pool of say 2000 power (if you spec for DPS), do you think that difference will bring the average down to 9 hits? I don’t think so. Maybe it will bring the average down to 99 from 100 hits.

as shown in the math literally right above you… it would take the hits down a lot more than that… ~14% damage increase for zerkers.

2000 health 10 hits to kill so an average of 200 dmg per hit is what you are saying. 200*1.14 = 228 dmg

That lowers it all the way down to 8.77 hits from 10.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Asumita.2174:

Astraea.6075:

Sins.4782:

Warlord.9074:

Stats matter when they give a clear advantage, Ascended armor by itself not including ascended trinkets do not give a clear advantage in this game. If you can prove that if 1 player with ascended armor and another with exotics that the player will 100% beat the other player in a 1v1 with exotics Ill hear you out. Or have any numerical real world advantage outside a calculator or spread sheet id eat my words.

Do you not understand how stats work or something? If someone has 50 power more than someone else, then they are 50 power stronger. It’s not hard math.

And without context, 50 power more is just 50 power more. A meaningless number.

Right. Say it takes and average of 10 hits to kill something. Ascended zerk armor have 14 more power, 11 more precision, and 1% more crit damage. From a pool of say 2000 power (if you spec for DPS), do you think that difference will bring the average down to 9 hits? I don’t think so. Maybe it will bring the average down to 99 from 100 hits.

as shown in the math literally right above you… it would take the hits down a lot more than that… ~14% damage increase for zerkers.

2000 health 10 hits to kill so an average of 200 dmg per hit is what you are saying. 200*1.14 = 228 dmg

That lowers it all the way down to 8.77 hits from 10.

I was just talking about the armor. I am for getting ascended weapons which is worth it imo. It’s the armor that requires so much to get so little. It’s crazy enough to get armor crafting to 500, let alone all the stuff needed to make the entire armor set just to get 14 more power. To add 14 power to 2000, that’s like less than 1% increase.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Asumita.2174:

Astraea.6075:

Sins.4782:

Warlord.9074:

Stats matter when they give a clear advantage, Ascended armor by itself not including ascended trinkets do not give a clear advantage in this game. If you can prove that if 1 player with ascended armor and another with exotics that the player will 100% beat the other player in a 1v1 with exotics Ill hear you out. Or have any numerical real world advantage outside a calculator or spread sheet id eat my words.

Do you not understand how stats work or something? If someone has 50 power more than someone else, then they are 50 power stronger. It’s not hard math.

And without context, 50 power more is just 50 power more. A meaningless number.

Right. Say it takes and average of 10 hits to kill something. Ascended zerk armor have 14 more power, 11 more precision, and 1% more crit damage. From a pool of say 2000 power (if you spec for DPS), do you think that difference will bring the average down to 9 hits? I don’t think so. Maybe it will bring the average down to 99 from 100 hits.

as shown in the math literally right above you… it would take the hits down a lot more than that… ~14% damage increase for zerkers.

2000 health 10 hits to kill so an average of 200 dmg per hit is what you are saying. 200*1.14 = 228 dmg

That lowers it all the way down to 8.77 hits from 10.

“all the way down”… by 2… rounded up.

Lol

Asumita.2174:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Asumita.2174:

Astraea.6075:

Sins.4782:

Warlord.9074:

Stats matter when they give a clear advantage, Ascended armor by itself not including ascended trinkets do not give a clear advantage in this game. If you can prove that if 1 player with ascended armor and another with exotics that the player will 100% beat the other player in a 1v1 with exotics Ill hear you out. Or have any numerical real world advantage outside a calculator or spread sheet id eat my words.

Do you not understand how stats work or something? If someone has 50 power more than someone else, then they are 50 power stronger. It’s not hard math.

And without context, 50 power more is just 50 power more. A meaningless number.

Right. Say it takes and average of 10 hits to kill something. Ascended zerk armor have 14 more power, 11 more precision, and 1% more crit damage. From a pool of say 2000 power (if you spec for DPS), do you think that difference will bring the average down to 9 hits? I don’t think so. Maybe it will bring the average down to 99 from 100 hits.

as shown in the math literally right above you… it would take the hits down a lot more than that… ~14% damage increase for zerkers.

2000 health 10 hits to kill so an average of 200 dmg per hit is what you are saying. 200*1.14 = 228 dmg

That lowers it all the way down to 8.77 hits from 10.

I was just talking about the armor. I am for getting ascended weapons which is worth it imo. It’s the armor that requires so much to get so little. It’s crazy enough to get armor crafting to 500, let alone all the stuff needed to make the entire armor set just to get 14 more power. To add 14 power to 2000, that’s like less than 1% increase.

You also get increase defense. I think for my build that is 2.78% mitigation.

I don’t really care about mitigation myself. It’s probably more for the WvW player that might care.

But I still felt forced to get at least 1 piece of ascended armor because that’ll push my agony resistance to 55. Which is enough to reduce agony to 1% till I reach 49

Sins.4782:

petespri.6548:

I’ve heard this a number of times, but would like clarification.

1. 10% stats is a lot. Can anyone link 2 builds that compares and shows this?

2. Even assuming it is a full 10%, what is the full percentage when you compare player A to player B when adding in stats from the toon before gear. What is the absolute stat difference?

I am very curious, thanks!

ps- My big reason for not going with CRAFTED ascended is that it locks me into one style of build. Berserker? Hope you never want to play Condi, Support, or any other hybrid or mix of gear build. That is not my style. I do however use the rings, amulet, trinkets. Working on a back piece slowly, and maybe a weapon (gasp) after that.

Exotic

Ascended with infusions

The ascended will deal 5.54% more damage than the exotic with kit skills, and 10.8% more damage with rifle and toolbelt skills, while having 2.7% higher armor. This is before precision/crit damage boosts such as fury, banner of discipline, and spotter are added, which increases those damage %s even more. For damage builds, increasing these values a little can make a larger difference than you would expect, due to the way damage multipliers work in this game.

Thanks for that, very much appreciated. Nice to see a build calculator that is still around and actually up to date!

All that said, 10% is a substantial amount. I am of the troop that would rather not have seen Ascended added at all, but it is and it is here to stay. I would have preferred it kept at 5% because that would give people something to grind for, yet also not be as big of a difference. 10% is a substantial and very noticable amount, especially in group scenarios.

That said, I will never grind more than one set of it. I have my trinkets, amulet, ring at this point. I suppose I will start on a weapon first now.

BUT I am torn on armor. I do NOT want to pigeon hole myself. I wonder if ascended Celestial would be worth it over specific Condition, Berserker sets? Hmmm, any help on this one?

Thx.

I’m at the point now where I could easily outfit myself with ascended gear, but I’m just not. I just want to wait for ArenaNet to wake up and start adding viable methods of obtaining ascended gear through completion of actual content rather than the absolute mess of an ascended crafting system or complete reliance on RNG.

There is zero incentive to upgrade when they’ve already expressed desire to change the meta with regards to berserker gear and certain stat combinations. It’s too costly for what it is, and as has been screamed from the rooftops a million times already, it goes completely against the philosophy ArenaNet once touted about best-in-slot gear.

That is a great point Cliff. Sums it up pretty well at this point. With all the changes, better to wait.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I guess by access, they mean getting carried by people who realize statistical advantages matter.

Think of it like a roller coaster. You must be at least 60in (152.4cm) to ride this ride. You are a short fellow so normally you are just at 60in, but now you bought some fancy Ascended shoes that catapult you to 72" (183cm, these are tall shoes). Not only can you still ride this ride, but now being taller allows for you to get a better view while riding, enhancing your experience (ignoring the fact that taller shoes would not increase your seated height). You experience the same thing, but slightly better. The shorter guy isn’t disadvantaged and is still able to ride the ride and have a good time, but the taller guy just has a better ride overall now because of the wind in his luxurious hair.

It’s the same thing. Exotic gets the job done for everything in this game, and it gets it done well. Ascended also gets the job done but a little bit better (yes 10-13% constitutes a little bit better). That’s it.

I’m so sorry for the terrible analogy, I really struggled to come up with something decent on the fly.

Cliff.8679:

I’m at the point now where I could easily outfit myself with ascended gear, but I’m just not. I just want to wait for ArenaNet to wake up and start adding viable methods of obtaining ascended gear through completion of actual content rather than the absolute mess of an ascended crafting system or complete reliance on RNG.

There is zero incentive to upgrade when they’ve already expressed desire to change the meta with regards to berserker gear and certain stat combinations. It’s too costly for what it is, and as has been screamed from the rooftops a million times already, it goes completely against the philosophy ArenaNet once touted about best-in-slot gear.

Word.
/15 characters

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You don’t need Ascended armor. The stat increase over Exotics is minor. So if you’ve given up on getting these, you can still play the game as normal.

le master trole 2014

Ascended Gear should be tradable. Even legendaries can be traded, why not ascended?

I just crafted ascended pvt armor for my guardian a couple days ago and I actually feel worse than I did before. In other words, I seem to survive much better in exotics, not sure if this a bug or all of a sudden I’m being concidered more of a threat and maybe more enemies are targergeting me? Took me 2 months of dungeon running to pay for the mats, I’m starting to feel it was all a waste.

Quoting this from a different thread for relevance.

IndigoSundown.5419:

What Ascended is:

• A stat increase (no one should dispute this)
• An increase in the amount of time and/or effort to gain BiS items (since this is one of the stated reasons for it to exist, no one should dispute this, either)
• A perceived need (indisputable, no one gets to determine what someone else thinks they need or want)
• An increase in the overall effectiveness of the players’ characters (objectively provable; game effectiveness is determined by math; Ascended provides higher numbers)
• An enabler of arguments in the game’s community (dispute that one, I dare you)
• A gear tier that was implemented in a piecemeal and haphazard fashion (if Ascended had been a well-planned tier, stat increases would have been spread proportionally over the entire gear tier, using methodology consistent with other gear tiers already in the game. The Ascended tier stat increases are weighted towards trinkets, with the last implementation, armor, providing the smallest increases.)
• Cheaper to produce than robust cosmetic progression (throwing higher stats onto gear is a lot less resource intensive than producing weapon and especially armor skins)
• A change in direction for the game (statements were made before launch that looks, not stat increases, would be the game’s long-term goals)

What Ascended isn’t:

• A pass/fail requirement for participation in 99% of the game’s conduct (unlike raid gear in other games, content is not impossible without the higher numbers; I say 99% because it’s arguable that highest level fractals require infusions)
• The start of a gear treadmill (there is no design statement that additional tiers will follow, absent this, statements that there is a gear treadmill are premature)
• A violation of statements made in the Manifesto (ANet did make pre-launch statements to the effect that BiS would be readily attainable, but those statements were not in the Manifesto blog or video)
• Something that was necessary to retain players clamoring for something to do (there is zero proof that players would not have embraced cosmetic progression if additional, robust cosmetic options had been implemented instead of stat increases)

…and also this…to an extent.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

This is my thoughts on the matter;

This game has an overall.. Odd design. What you have, is that everything has the potential to drop something valuable. HOWEVER, to make up for this, the drop rates for everything are EXTREMELY low. Even for boss-specified skins, like the Wurm and Tequatl Ascended gear. The result is you can only access it on a practical level via crafting, which from almost everyone I’ve heard of, is dull and boring. Which I’m inclined to agree with.

The next problem is the Ascended Gear’s very conceptual design. It’s time gated in crafting, so that people can’t rush. However I for on remember many threads with “First to make Ascended _ (Server name here)” when Weapons and Armor released respectively. And this was within hours of release. So on the one hand, it’s time gated to slow people down, yet clearly the design failed to do this. On top of that, Ascended was designed for people who were more hardcore in a sense of progression.. Yet.. it was time gated for people to be able to keep up? Wut? The whole design of VP to some degree is that some people are stronger than others for working towards a goal. So having those people restricted seems restricted for people who don’t want to be left behind seems a bit ironic, given its design requires people to be on unequal levels.

Ascended was made for fractals, yet, it is available outside of fractals for use. This is okay, I guess, but it’s not really something that should’ve been allowed to filter into WvW. Anet could’ve easily changed WvW to make it like the sPvP environment but they didn’t so there’s that. I understand why, but I’ll get to that later. The other issue is the stat curve. The stat curve isn’t remotely worth the grind, yet it’s just enough to be at that point where you’re better off getting it than not. There’s already people asking for “Ascended only”, so yay for that. Finally the stats are rigid as heck. So if tommorow Anet changed stat-interaction, or made condition builds more viable and Zerks less so or such, you’ll have to grind a whole new set and spend a month or so again. GG WP for that. And both those things are easy to understand.

Now; Why?

The reason and rational is pretty simple.
It’s a psychological game. VP is a egg laid by whoever was the first person to realize how they could use Maslow’s Heirarchy of Needs in the industry of MMOs. The last tier of MHN is “Self-Actualization” – that sense of pride, of accomplishment, superiority and greatness. This is where Ascended comes from. It is precisely in the middle of useless and necessary, and that’s why people hate it, but need it. The reason why they’ve made the stats so rigid, is so that they can change it – as they are with fury – and so that you need to spend more time grinding to feel that same accomplishment again. And assume that no PVE player cared for it, they made WvW unofficially require it by again making the stat gain precisely too great to ignore and too small to consider serious. Finally, it works because the vast majority of users are still in that mindset, and even though they don’t want VP, it’s sort of like a forbidden fruit that they can’t truly resist.

Now you can quote me with a tin-foil hat post, but this is the basic law of marketing; You need to make the client feel like they need whatever you’re selling. They need to want it and chase it, you shouldn’t need to come to them to get them to buy it. And look what’s happening? It’s a self rewarding system. There will come a time where not having ascended will be frowned upon because that’s what the ultimate goal is. Anet won’t have any traffic if there’s nothing for the players to bite at.

Good or bad? That’s individual opinion. I don’t like it, but I’ll quote my dad on the matter;

“..Gamers are loyal to their games, but games are never loyal to gamers..”

A key point to note: This is where Ascended comes from. It is precisely in the middle of useless and necessary, and that’s why people hate it, but need it.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Quoting this from a different thread for relevance.

IndigoSundown.5419:

What Ascended is:

• A stat increase (no one should dispute this)
• An increase in the amount of time and/or effort to gain BiS items (since this is one of the stated reasons for it to exist, no one should dispute this, either)
• A perceived need (indisputable, no one gets to determine what someone else thinks they need or want)
• An increase in the overall effectiveness of the players’ characters (objectively provable; game effectiveness is determined by math; Ascended provides higher numbers)
• An enabler of arguments in the game’s community (dispute that one, I dare you)
• A gear tier that was implemented in a piecemeal and haphazard fashion (if Ascended had been a well-planned tier, stat increases would have been spread proportionally over the entire gear tier, using methodology consistent with other gear tiers already in the game. The Ascended tier stat increases are weighted towards trinkets, with the last implementation, armor, providing the smallest increases.)
• Cheaper to produce than robust cosmetic progression (throwing higher stats onto gear is a lot less resource intensive than producing weapon and especially armor skins)
• A change in direction for the game (statements were made before launch that looks, not stat increases, would be the game’s long-term goals)

What Ascended isn’t:

• A pass/fail requirement for participation in 99% of the game’s conduct (unlike raid gear in other games, content is not impossible without the higher numbers; I say 99% because it’s arguable that highest level fractals require infusions)
• The start of a gear treadmill (there is no design statement that additional tiers will follow, absent this, statements that there is a gear treadmill are premature)
• A violation of statements made in the Manifesto (ANet did make pre-launch statements to the effect that BiS would be readily attainable, but those statements were not in the Manifesto blog or video)
• Something that was necessary to retain players clamoring for something to do (there is zero proof that players would not have embraced cosmetic progression if additional, robust cosmetic options had been implemented instead of stat increases)

Most of what he said there is spot on.