Why is silk going up in price?
I think silk is just fine. What we need to do is fix the others so they’re the same as silk.
i think your basis for saying silk is fine is based on its per unit cost rather than its actuall use.
silk at 2 silver + is great
if you dont need 300 every day.
so really the question is, why does it cost 6 gold OR 2-3 hours grinding a day (if you arent buying it with gold) in order to meet the minimum requirement in order to get a full gear set in 30+ days time.
in other games, similar daily grinds would take you a half hour or less.
I totally agree that the current cost of Damask is ludicrous compared to the cost of the other ascended materials.
However… How would you expect them to change the recipe to say, 50 bolts of silk? Sure, people complain about the current cost, but I’m sure that plenty more people would complain if all of their damask (and silk) that they currently own dropped in price.
People would be angry because they would say that they could’ve saved X amount of money if A-net had released plans before they started crafting damask for ascended gear.
Other people would complain because they would lose out on a lot of their profit that they would’ve got on selling their bulk of silk/damask.
And more people would complain that they would have to remove all of their damask from the TP and pay to re-list them.
not fixing things because of past bad design is bad reasoning. It just causes you to build bad designs on top of bad designs.
We cant end child labor, because all the kids who had to work would be mad that the new generations of kids who dont have to work.
its true people will complain, and feel that they got screwed, but screwing more people isnt really the optimal solution.
(edited by phys.7689)
The buy price according to GW2spidy is 2s5c. A year ago when I made my Ascended armor, I was putting in buy orders for 1s95c-2s….
How much silk is actually selling at that price? Were there 699,111 stagnant silk buy orders a year ago? The buy price doesn’t mean much in an environment where so many buyers are lining up to outbid you.
Check the link. It shows historical data on actual sales.
And the link shows the number of buy listings steadily climbing (from 591k last week to 716k today) while the number of sale listings continues to drop (from 751k last week to 663k today). That tells me that those buy orders are stagnating because the sell orders are being filled faster than they’re posted. I doubt your buy orders are going to be filled in a timely fashion under the current environment.
Also, the prices from a year ago indicate that silk was at 1.33 silver, which is far less than the 1.95 silver that you were claiming.
(edited by Bernie.8674)
Silk seems to be pretty well balanced. The price has been relatively stable, and provides a consistent income of gold for many people. I’m not sure why it “needs” to be changed at all. It seems to be the best off of the common mats. If anything they need to increase the leather needed from 150 up to 400. Mithril is pretty stable thanks to MFing of rare weapons, but with precursor hunt coming they may need to also increase mithril from 100 up to 200 or even 300.
Going by that logic, then the supply of other materials is too high. Why is silk going for 539% of the cost of mithril and 2633% of the cost of thick leather? If you seriously think it’s well balanced then I suspect you either have no cloth wearing characters or have already crafted all the ascended gear you need. At that point you have every incentive to keep prices high.
It seems silk is in a good place. It is rare enough that people want to farm it, but common enough that people make money off it just by playing the game. I think the other mats are the main problem, they are not worth farming and many times people just sell them to the vendor. This indicates to me that they are the problem, not silk.
As soon as the time comes to craft your revenant’s gear you’re going to be crying. Consider that even for leather a single ascended piece requires 1500 silk scraps. Even if you’ve maxed out your collectible stack size, you’re going to have to fill an entire stack just to get one piece. Is that seriously “in a good place?”
Does anyone have an actual argument as to why silk needs to be changed, other than “I don’t want to work for it, make it easier”?
Sorry, but this is a game. When I go to work I’m working. When I’m doing household chores I’m working. When I’m playing Guild Wars 2 I don’t need to work some more. If this game is going to make me work then I may as well find another diversion. It must be nice to be in a position where your RL obligations are so few and far between that you actually crave work in a virtual world.
The supply of the other materials is too high… I thought I made that pretty clear. Mithril gets produced in the largest quantities, but forging for precursors keeps the amount in check. Once you no longer need to forge precursors its supply will quickly outpace even that of leather. leather is so oversupplied that it has been more profitable to sell it to the vendor for over 2 years now.
I will certainly not be crying. In an average 2-3 hour play session in SW I get 200-300 silk scraps. That is one ascended silk mat every day, sometimes 1 in 2 days. That means in 30 days, or only 1 month of play, I will have enough to craft an entire end game set of armor that is the most powerful gear that will ever be in the game. If anything that is too short a time. I would expect an endgame armor set to take 2-3 months like in most MMO’s. And that is without ever buying any silk, I could do it in 1-2 weeks if I bought silk with the other mats I sold.
Well if you don’t have time to play the game then don’t play the game. Don’t try and ruin the challenge and investment of the game because you don’t have good time management skills.
The buy price according to GW2spidy is 2s5c. A year ago when I made my Ascended armor, I was putting in buy orders for 1s95c-2s….
How much silk is actually selling at that price? Were there 699,111 stagnant silk buy orders a year ago? The buy price doesn’t mean much in an environment where so many buyers are lining up to outbid you.
Check the link. It shows historical data on actual sales.
And the link shows the number of buy listings steadily climbing (from 591k last week to 716k today) while the number of sale listings continues to drop (from 751k last week to 663k today). That tells me that those buy orders are stagnating because the sell orders are being filled faster than they’re posted. I doubt your buy orders are going to be filled in a timely fashion under the current environment.
Suppose there’s only one way to find out, haha. Gonna have to list some and see.
But I don’t think that data is as useful as you think it is:
Jan 2014: Sell listings 226k, Buy listings 687k
May 2014: Sell listings 514k, Buy listings 850k
Sept 2014: Sell listings 255k, Buy listings 830k
Jan 2015: Sell listings 877k, Buy listings 487k
Today: Sell listings 663k, Buy listings 716k
It ebbs and flows all over the place.
EDIT: I picked random days in each of those months.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
Silk seems to be pretty well balanced. The price has been relatively stable, and provides a consistent income of gold for many people. I’m not sure why it “needs” to be changed at all. It seems to be the best off of the common mats. If anything they need to increase the leather needed from 150 up to 400. Mithril is pretty stable thanks to MFing of rare weapons, but with precursor hunt coming they may need to also increase mithril from 100 up to 200 or even 300.
Going by that logic, then the supply of other materials is too high. Why is silk going for 539% of the cost of mithril and 2633% of the cost of thick leather? If you seriously think it’s well balanced then I suspect you either have no cloth wearing characters or have already crafted all the ascended gear you need. At that point you have every incentive to keep prices high.
It seems silk is in a good place. It is rare enough that people want to farm it, but common enough that people make money off it just by playing the game. I think the other mats are the main problem, they are not worth farming and many times people just sell them to the vendor. This indicates to me that they are the problem, not silk.
As soon as the time comes to craft your revenant’s gear you’re going to be crying. Consider that even for leather a single ascended piece requires 1500 silk scraps. Even if you’ve maxed out your collectible stack size, you’re going to have to fill an entire stack just to get one piece. Is that seriously “in a good place?”
Does anyone have an actual argument as to why silk needs to be changed, other than “I don’t want to work for it, make it easier”?
Sorry, but this is a game. When I go to work I’m working. When I’m doing household chores I’m working. When I’m playing Guild Wars 2 I don’t need to work some more. If this game is going to make me work then I may as well find another diversion. It must be nice to be in a position where your RL obligations are so few and far between that you actually crave work in a virtual world.
The supply of the other materials is too high… I thought I made that pretty clear. Mithril gets produced in the largest quantities, but forging for precursors keeps the amount in check. Once you no longer need to forge precursors its supply will quickly outpace even that of leather. leather is so oversupplied that it has been more profitable to sell it to the vendor for over 2 years now.
I will certainly not be crying. In an average 2-3 hour play session in SW I get 200-300 silk scraps. That is one ascended silk mat every day, sometimes 1 in 2 days. That means in 30 days, or only 1 month of play, I will have enough to craft an entire end game set of armor that is the most powerful gear that will ever be in the game. If anything that is too short a time. I would expect an endgame armor set to take 2-3 months like in most MMO’s. And that is without ever buying any silk, I could do it in 1-2 weeks if I bought silk with the other mats I sold.
Well if you don’t have time to play the game then don’t play the game. Don’t try and ruin the challenge and investment of the game because you don’t have good time management skills.
so you think your daily requirement for 1 material for only your ascended armor, should require 2-3 hours of one of the best grind/farms currently in the game?
what if you dont like silverwastes? 6-10 hours?
most endgame sets dont actually require
60-90 hours of active play to achieve.
it may take you a couple months of raiding to get best in slot, but you are probably only raiding for those drops 2-3 hours a week, not 2-3 hours a day.
the daily grind method of gearing up tends to take less than a half hour a day, of that type of activity.
Also other games tend to have 1 – 3 possible best in slots per class. This game has like 24? different gear stat sets.
(edited by phys.7689)
supply and demand
if making ascended was easy, everyone would be super strong, therefore nobody would be strong, besides, you should be happy only a few things are expensive for high quality stuff lol, would you rather they just up the price of EVERYTHING, or would you rather just have 1 part expensive
I agree same.
" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur
Ankur
I don’t care about the grind or the actual cost, I only care about the fact that damask is over 4x more expensive than every other ascended mat because anet intentionally made damask cost double the amount of materials to make than every other ascended mat. They INTENTIONALLY are making damask more expensive than every other mat.
That is BAD GAME DESIGN.
Silk is used for T5 armor.
T5 armor is mostly level 70-80
At those levels, people can already get exotics easily with tokens they may have saved from dungeons, WvW and karma.
So people didn’t craft many armor using silk. They still cracfted some weapons, though, since orrian vendors do not have weapons, and people went for armor before going for weapons with dungeon tokens. And T5 level 80 rares can be used in the mystic forge to try and get precursors.
On the other hand, at level 80, most drops are T5. And there’s no legendary armor.
So people ended up with tons of T5 materials they didn’t use, specially silk, since it was even less used even though it was produced much less than the other T5 materials, as it’s the only material never used for weapons.
To fight that, they made it so ascended materials used T5 as a base, with costs that would eat away all the surplus.
But they never bothered adjusting the costs again once the surplus was consumed. And while there’s nodes for wood and metal, and leather is both well supplied from beasts that drop salvageable leather and rarely other kinds of items and much less used than the other materials, there’s no nodes nor any particular ‘high dropper’ creature for cloth.
But cloth is used for all ascended armors, so after the surplus was consumed, the increased costs kept pushing the price up past reasonable limits. Resulting in cloth becoming a bottleneck much higher than any other rare and fine material, even though it is a basic material, and as a basic material it should always stay at prices within reasonable ranges and never be a bottleneck leaving that for fine and rare materials.
Possible solutions to this issue would one or more of these:
1. Add cloth nodes.
2. Adjust the cloth costs of a few key recipes.
3. Change insignia recipes to use leather instead cloth, or add additional insignia recipes that can use cloth and metal.
(edited by MithranArkanere.8957)
The supply of the other materials is too high… I thought I made that pretty clear. Mithril gets produced in the largest quantities, but forging for precursors keeps the amount in check. Once you no longer need to forge precursors its supply will quickly outpace even that of leather. leather is so oversupplied that it has been more profitable to sell it to the vendor for over 2 years now.
I will certainly not be crying. In an average 2-3 hour play session in SW I get 200-300 silk scraps. That is one ascended silk mat every day, sometimes 1 in 2 days. That means in 30 days, or only 1 month of play, I will have enough to craft an entire end game set of armor that is the most powerful gear that will ever be in the game. If anything that is too short a time. I would expect an endgame armor set to take 2-3 months like in most MMO’s. And that is without ever buying any silk, I could do it in 1-2 weeks if I bought silk with the other mats I sold.
Well if you don’t have time to play the game then don’t play the game. Don’t try and ruin the challenge and investment of the game because you don’t have good time management skills.
You’re gonna have to explain this one to me, because I’m really not seeing where “skill” and “challenge” come into play when all you’re doing is repeating the same simple, repetitive group content for two to three hours a day every day for a month to a month and a half.
PS – living in Silverwaste doesn’t earn you the right to condescend to others about their time management.
(edited by darkace.8925)
Because during Wintersday, the good quality socks, hats and sweaters could be salvaged and have a chance at scraps including silk. That increased the rate of new supply temporally and the price fell. Now that’s over, the rate of new supply is returning to “normal” so the price is going up.
And now with nothing special to do, maybe more players are focusing on their first ascended armor set which bumps up demand.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
(edited by Behellagh.1468)
Cloth isn’t necessarily more difficult to come buy, it is just that its generation method prevents the targeted production of it by an individual.
For example:
10 People who WANT Ore are generating 1,000,000 per day.
10 People who WANT Ore need 1,000,000 per day (able to supply their own demand)
100 People who do NOT want Ore are generating 100,000 per day (ambient generation from salvage)
Total generation is 1,100,000 per day, of which 100,000 was not specifically asked for. This excess supply is in low demand, so the price falls.
10 People who WANT Cloth are generating 100,000 per day.
10 People who WANT Cloth need 1,000,000 per day (900,000 supply deficit)
100 People who do NOT want cloth are generating 1,000,000 per day (ambient generation from salvage and bags)
Total generation is 1,100,000 per day, of which 100,000 wasn’t specifically asked for. However, since the 10 people who WANT Cloth are only able to generate 1/10 of the amount they need, they must compete with each other to purchase the remaining 9/10s from the ambient generators who are trying to sell their Cloth. It is this competition among buyers that drives up the Cloth price, not necessarily the available supply to demand ratio.
It is because Cloth and Leather are ambiently generated that their individual acquisition rates are so low as to require people to trade for any meaningful amount.
I do think that we should be able to craft Insignias with Leather AND Cloth, which would normalize the prices of the two.
Server: Devona’s Rest
(edited by mtpelion.4562)
[…]
You’re gonna have to explain this one to me, because I’m really not seeing where “skill” and “challenge” come into play when all you’re doing is repeating the same simple, repetitive group content for two to three hours a day every day for a month to a month and a half.
It’s a korean grinder mindset that has managed to convince people a game should be like that.
I’ve spend way more than 2-3 hours in Silverwastest doing events over and over, without long pauses, including bosses and the maze. I’ve also done many fast dungeon and fractal runs within that time. Never got anywhere near 200-300 silk scraps.
What I don’t like, though, is the mindless farming events like those in orr, in which all you do is just mash buttons and spam aoes.
Therefore, if that guy is getting that much, it must be from some such event that spawns countless enemies that drop loot, which should not have ever happened in the game on the first place, as they gave people the wrong impression of how to play and put them in this farming dynamic that has no place in the design of the game.
Fotunately, GW2’s design philosophy is against mindless grind, and that’s why anyone asking for reasonable cost rewarding time investment and skill over favoring mindless grind is on the right side of the discussion. So those who choose to explore or do content like dungeons or PvP or WvW are able to do as much as those who focus on exploiting how all all those “spawn wave” produce lots of enemies that drop stuff.
They improved the sistem in Silverwastes, but they are yet to fix old content with the new improved design. They can’t leave wrong things around once they’ve found the right ones.
So first of all, they should change ALL events in the game to give the drop rewards based on event participation, and only on success, like the events in Silverwastes.
If an enemy is spawned by an event, its drops should wait to the end, and be given with the success of the event, up to a cap. With the exception of ‘single enemy’ events like killing a champion or a veteran that would keep the drops on the enemy since there’s just one target. Any other drop would have to come from the random freely roaming enemies many people do not bother fighting right now.
We’ll then see the rate at which they’ll get silk, when they have to actually see the objectives of the event and succesfully complete it instead running around mindlessly spamming some 5-target cleave autoattack and call that “skill”.
It’s a korean grinder mindset that has managed to convince people a game should be like that.
Horse hockey. You have not seen what a Korean grinder is like and this isn’t one. If this was a Korean grinder we would need 10x as much or pay for a conveniently sized amount from the cash shop. And buying gold to buy silk or Damask isn’t the same.
Did ANet screw up with the requirements of silk needed for Damask, yes. It raised the price of silk considerably and the need for Damask raised the cost of noticeably of T2-T4 cloth mats as well.
And yes, cloth and leather can’t be gathered, only drop from items that are salvaged or found in bags which hurts the supply process.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
most endgame sets dont actually require
60-90 hours of active play to achieve.it may take you a couple months of raiding to get best in slot, but you are probably only raiding for those drops 2-3 hours a week, not 2-3 hours a day.
the daily grind method of gearing up tends to take less than a half hour a day, of that type of activity.
Also other games tend to have 1 – 3 possible best in slots per class. This game has like 24? different gear stat sets.
May I ask what in God’s green earth does how long it take to get a BiS set from that other game have to do with the price of Silk? Your longstanding agenda of comparison between GW2 and that other game is NOT part of this thread and your attempts to twist every thread into that comparison is getting tired. If you want a BiS in that other game, go play it for 2 months and get it.
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
most endgame sets dont actually require
60-90 hours of active play to achieve.it may take you a couple months of raiding to get best in slot, but you are probably only raiding for those drops 2-3 hours a week, not 2-3 hours a day.
the daily grind method of gearing up tends to take less than a half hour a day, of that type of activity.
Also other games tend to have 1 – 3 possible best in slots per class. This game has like 24? different gear stat sets.
May I ask what in God’s green earth does how long it take to get a BiS set from that other game have to do with the price of Silk? Your longstanding agenda of comparison between GW2 and that other game is NOT part of this thread and your attempts to twist every thread into that comparison is getting tired. If you want a BiS in that other game, go play it for 2 months and get it.
it was a response to a person who was comparing best in slot to other games, and im not really talking about one game in this case, im talking about multiple games.
specifically this part of the person i was replying to
“If anything that is too short a time. I would expect an endgame armor set to take 2-3 months like in most MMO’s. "
so no, im not really trying to twist anything, he brought up how easy it is to get as compared to other MMOs, and i am pointing out that is not accurate. He made a mistake by only looking at the time from start to finish, and not the amount of time ingame.
Heres what you need to do
Stop trying to identify people by their names and your own notions of what they are about, and examine the posts, and the posts they are replying to based on their own merit. This is not about me, or my agenda. Or any other post from any other discussion.
This is about how people are unsatisfied with how silk is, in relation to the requirements for them to get best in slot.
Take a deep breath, and stop trying to make it personal, its really not.
most endgame sets dont actually require
60-90 hours of active play to achieve.it may take you a couple months of raiding to get best in slot, but you are probably only raiding for those drops 2-3 hours a week, not 2-3 hours a day.
the daily grind method of gearing up tends to take less than a half hour a day, of that type of activity.
Also other games tend to have 1 – 3 possible best in slots per class. This game has like 24? different gear stat sets.
May I ask what in God’s green earth does how long it take to get a BiS set from that other game have to do with the price of Silk? Your longstanding agenda of comparison between GW2 and that other game is NOT part of this thread and your attempts to twist every thread into that comparison is getting tired. If you want a BiS in that other game, go play it for 2 months and get it.
He also failed to mention that in those other games, you have to re-grind that BiS set every new patch that adds a new tier of armor. In GW2 you work your grind once.
If you add up all of the time spent keeping a character at BiS in other games, it would blow GW2’s 60-90hr estimate completely out of the water.
Source: Common sense
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
most endgame sets dont actually require
60-90 hours of active play to achieve.it may take you a couple months of raiding to get best in slot, but you are probably only raiding for those drops 2-3 hours a week, not 2-3 hours a day.
the daily grind method of gearing up tends to take less than a half hour a day, of that type of activity.
Also other games tend to have 1 – 3 possible best in slots per class. This game has like 24? different gear stat sets.
May I ask what in God’s green earth does how long it take to get a BiS set from that other game have to do with the price of Silk? Your longstanding agenda of comparison between GW2 and that other game is NOT part of this thread and your attempts to twist every thread into that comparison is getting tired. If you want a BiS in that other game, go play it for 2 months and get it.
He also failed to mention that in those other games, you have to re-grind that BiS set every new patch that adds a new tier of armor. In GW2 you work your grind once.
If you add up all of the time spent keeping a character at BiS in other games, it would blow GW2’s 60-90hr estimate completely out of the water.
Source: Common sense
an interesting point, but it doesnt really translate well.
if someone said i will pay you 1 million dollars, but you have to do 90,000 hours of work first, most people would say screw you.
so its not simply about the totals, its about how you experience it.
I mean, if you had to do all the work to buy a house before you can live in it, most people would not have houses.
or, by the time they got it, they would be to old to actually enjoy it.
btw the 60-90 hour estimate, was just for armor alone, and that is the time to get the silk, some of the other required elements are not properly included, like linen, cotton, empyreal obsidian etc.
(edited by phys.7689)
I think if they just cut the bolt requirement back down to 50 it would work out. The increase was meant to combat the the overwhelming amount of silk scraps, but now that there isn’t an overwhelming amount of silk scraps the increased reqs is just not needed anymore.
Same with Soft Wood Logs and Planks.
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“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
Why they think they need to micro-manage the economy is something I don’t really get. Plus, it’s not working, anyway. Silk prices went up but most of the leather prices are in the toilet and so are the prices of silver, gold, and nearly every jewel in the game.
Seems odd to purposely spike the price in one item and let others languish. Just odd.
most endgame sets dont actually require
60-90 hours of active play to achieve.it may take you a couple months of raiding to get best in slot, but you are probably only raiding for those drops 2-3 hours a week, not 2-3 hours a day.
the daily grind method of gearing up tends to take less than a half hour a day, of that type of activity.
Also other games tend to have 1 – 3 possible best in slots per class. This game has like 24? different gear stat sets.
May I ask what in God’s green earth does how long it take to get a BiS set from that other game have to do with the price of Silk? Your longstanding agenda of comparison between GW2 and that other game is NOT part of this thread and your attempts to twist every thread into that comparison is getting tired. If you want a BiS in that other game, go play it for 2 months and get it.
He also failed to mention that in those other games, you have to re-grind that BiS set every new patch that adds a new tier of armor. In GW2 you work your grind once.
If you add up all of the time spent keeping a character at BiS in other games, it would blow GW2’s 60-90hr estimate completely out of the water.
Source: Common sense
an interesting point, but it doesnt really translate well.
if someone said i will pay you 1 million dollars, but you have to do 90,000 hours of work first, most people would say screw you.
so its not simply about the totals, its about how you experience it.
I mean, if you had to do all the work to buy a house before you can live in it, most people would not have houses.
or, by the time they got it, they would be to old to actually enjoy it.
btw the 60-90 hour estimate, was just for armor alone, and that is the time to get the silk, some of the other required elements are not properly included, like linen, cotton, empyreal obsidian etc.
Ok, well if you want to throw completely exaggerated numbers out there. Like 90,000hrs of work (45 years @ 40hrs/week for $1million)….
It’s more like this:
We will give you $100,000 for 1000hrs of work with 20% accrued interest every year after that without having to work any additional.
Or we will give you $10,000 for 100hrs of work. But you can keep signing up for another $10,000 every 100hrs until we decide we no longer need your services (game closes down)
The second guy will have to continue to work for years to come, while the first guy invests his time up front and then gets to kick back and retire, never having to worry about working again unless he for some reason wants even more money, then he can sign up for another contract.
I think it’s clear which option is better.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
The buy price according to GW2spidy is 2s5c. A year ago when I made my Ascended armor, I was putting in buy orders for 1s95c-2s….
How much silk is actually selling at that price? Were there 699,111 stagnant silk buy orders a year ago? The buy price doesn’t mean much in an environment where so many buyers are lining up to outbid you.
Check the link. It shows historical data on actual sales.
It shows prices for buy/sell orders as well as quantities of buy/sell orders on the TP at various points in time. It doesn’t show sales data.
most endgame sets dont actually require
60-90 hours of active play to achieve.it may take you a couple months of raiding to get best in slot, but you are probably only raiding for those drops 2-3 hours a week, not 2-3 hours a day.
the daily grind method of gearing up tends to take less than a half hour a day, of that type of activity.
Also other games tend to have 1 – 3 possible best in slots per class. This game has like 24? different gear stat sets.
May I ask what in God’s green earth does how long it take to get a BiS set from that other game have to do with the price of Silk? Your longstanding agenda of comparison between GW2 and that other game is NOT part of this thread and your attempts to twist every thread into that comparison is getting tired. If you want a BiS in that other game, go play it for 2 months and get it.
He also failed to mention that in those other games, you have to re-grind that BiS set every new patch that adds a new tier of armor. In GW2 you work your grind once.
If you add up all of the time spent keeping a character at BiS in other games, it would blow GW2’s 60-90hr estimate completely out of the water.
Source: Common sense
an interesting point, but it doesnt really translate well.
if someone said i will pay you 1 million dollars, but you have to do 90,000 hours of work first, most people would say screw you.
so its not simply about the totals, its about how you experience it.
I mean, if you had to do all the work to buy a house before you can live in it, most people would not have houses.
or, by the time they got it, they would be to old to actually enjoy it.
btw the 60-90 hour estimate, was just for armor alone, and that is the time to get the silk, some of the other required elements are not properly included, like linen, cotton, empyreal obsidian etc.
Ok, well if you want to throw completely exaggerated numbers out there. Like 90,000hrs of work (45 years @ 40hrs/week for $1million)….
It’s more like this:
We will give you $100,000 for 1000hrs of work with 20% accrued interest every year after that without having to work any additional.
Or we will give you $10,000 for 100hrs of work. But you can keep signing up for another $10,000 every 100hrs until we decide we no longer need your services (game closes down)
The second guy will have to continue to work for years to come, while the first guy invests his time up front and then gets to kick back and retire, never having to worry about working again unless he for some reason wants even more money, then he can sign up for another contract.
I think it’s clear which option is better.
Yes my numbers were based on the average amount of hours worked, and the average earnings.
And yes its better to buy a house up front if you got the money, but if you don’t, paying a mortgage (you pay way more in interest) will give you a higher quality of life, than saving for 25 years.
There is a reason. You just havent been playing long enough to know that (granted, I didnt know the reason at first either). The reason that damask takes double the silk to craft is that there was such a glut of silk, that it was gw2’s thick leather sections of today.
Nope. That “glut of silk” pretty much disappeared within a week after ascended armor crafting. If silk wasn’t doubled, then at best it would disappear in two weeks. Ascended armor crafting alone, with no adjustments to number of silk per damask (or scraps per bolt), would likely have been enough to solve the “silk problem”. Change to scraps per bolt alone would definitely be sufficient. Adding the double bolts per damask was just overkill, and ended up pushing silk into equally bad, but opposite place.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Darn I though silk might have gone to 4 silver. Around 2 it’s not high at all.
Silk is actually a very unreasonable material. You need 50 of wood, mithril or leather to make their cooldown item, but 100 silk.
Making the refined T5 leather and silk take 3 of their -salvaged- materials, mithril takes 2 and elder wood takes 3 again. So here it is just mithril getting more slack.
You need 3 damask bolts for -any- piece of gear, even if its mithril or leather, just for the insignia. Meaning that every weight set uses 18 bolts of damask (1800 silk bolts, 5400 scraps) just to start off with. Add to that the following to make the sets:
Cloth – 19 Damask 6 Elonian Leather (1900 Silk, 300 Leather <2200 refined materials, 6600 unrefined >)
Leather – 6 Damask 18 Elonian Leather (600 Silk, 900 Leather <1500 refined materials, 4500 unrefined >)
Heavy – 7 Damask 16 Deldrimor Steel (+700 Silk, 800 Mithril <1500 refined materials, 3700 unrefined>)
Weapons take 3 planks, 3 steel and 4-6 assorted materials depending on the weapon, making them more material intensive, but the ease with which these materials can be obtained doesn’t match up to the effort it takes to gather silk.
People have a pretty good way to get both mithril and elder wood. Not only do you get tons of the stuff just salvaging, but you can easily make a lap through any 60+ map and get tons of it. In comparison, leather and silk are obtained only through salvaged goods and bags, and this means grinding.
It takes me roughly 8 hours to grind out 300 silk scraps for 1 damask bolt. It’s boring and tedious and thus even I cave in to buying this material though I try to avoid the TP whenever I can. Now of all other materials I have plenty, pretty much drowning in the stuff, you don’t need enough leather to ever run out and both wood and mithril are easily obtained.
I’d go for balancing out the need for materials, not lowering the over all amount of stuff needed, but easing up on the damask in favour of increasing the need for other materials. Either upping the other T5 materials to 100 each as well and lowering the amount of ascended materials, or dropping Silk to 50 per bolt, but upping the amount of ascended materials needed, as the only true problem I see at the moment is that silk is disproportionately more needed than the other materials, and takes perhaps the most grinding in game to get. Followed by leather and making wood and metals seem like a joke in their acquisition.
edit: forgive the underlines, cant find whats causing them.
edit 2: cleaned up some mithril-iron semantics.
(edited by Chista.4750)
i pity the light armor class…. they need to fork out more gold to craft their ascended armors, as compare to the medium and the heavies.
Cutie Phantasmer/Farinas [HAX] – CD Casual
Archeage = Farmville with PK
Archeage = Farmville with PK
Yeah, it’s like the powers that be hate the light armor classes. Seems unfair for them to be singled out to spend 3x as much for their gear as everyone else.
Can confirm silk price has not risen. Just did a buy order for 250 @ 1s99c, it filled in 13seconds…
One year ago it was the same exact price, 2s. Not sure what OP or even what a lot of responders are talking about quite honestly.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
Does anyone have an actual argument as to why silk needs to be changed, other than “I don’t want to work for it, make it easier”?
It’s been presented in this thread more than once, you just chose to ignore it.
Does anyone have an actual argument other than “because mithril and elder wood logs are this way and silk isnt, therefore silk must conform”? No? Does anyone think Anet didnt already consider this beforehand and consider the impacts? (doomsayers need not reply) Does anyone think JS isnt watching the markets to see if it’s a potentially reasonable change?
Also, for those touting the gw2spidy and other market site information, keep in mind those sites wont be able to track, or report, orders that are filled faster than the API caching/refresh times. It could be 700k buy orders 10 minutes before the data gets refreshed, but 2m buy orders are placed, and filled, in those 10 minutes, but only the 700k buy orders are reported.
Does anyone have an actual argument as to why silk needs to be changed, other than “I don’t want to work for it, make it easier”?
It’s been presented in this thread more than once, you just chose to ignore it.
Does anyone have an actual argument other than “because mithril and elder wood logs are this way and silk isnt, therefore silk must conform”? No? Does anyone think Anet didnt already consider this beforehand and consider the impacts? (doomsayers need not reply) Does anyone think JS isnt watching the markets to see if it’s a potentially reasonable change?
Also, for those touting the gw2spidy and other market site information, keep in mind those sites wont be able to track, or report, orders that are filled faster than the API caching/refresh times. It could be 700k buy orders 10 minutes before the data gets refreshed, but 2m buy orders are placed, and filled, in those 10 minutes, but only the 700k buy orders are reported.
I think anyone can make a mistake or have an oversight
The argument is simple: Consistency.
It makes sense for a basic material to be acquired at more or less the same rate as other basic materials, when all armor equipment uses this material. The same way it doesn’t make sense for leather armor to only salvage into leather when leather is used less than the other materials.
Forget the cost in the trading post. It’s just a reflection of how much it is used and how little it is obtained.
Fix things, and all basic materials will be acquired at more or less the same rate and used at more or less the same rate. Keep them consistent, and less people will feel frustrated and punished for picking a light armor profession. And when less people feels like that, the game becomes more enoyable and has more fun, which is the whole purpose of the game.
There’s plenty of ways to adjust this. Here’s some examples.
- Reducing crafting costs.
- Altering recipes. E.g.: leather instead cloth for insignia.
- Adding cloth nodes, so there’s ways to intentionally acquire cloth instead acquisition being limited to randomness and trading.
This adjustement also includes making leather more in line with other basic materials, since it tends to be lower.
Adjustements would not be something you do just once and that’s it. Prices and the evolution or the market should be watched to see if all 4 kinds of basic materials get more in line to each other in both acquisition and use, and keep adjusting until they are within reasonable limits.
There’s also things to fix for other materials, though.
For example, to make berserker gear, you use just blood.
Instead of that, there should be one on material per stat, to make things normalized and consistent, so old materials still work with new stat combinations. To keep the activators like ambrite, use those extra materials to unlock the recipes rather than to craft the items themselves, so you still need to visit and complete the new content to craft the stuff.
(edited by MithranArkanere.8957)
let’s look at the bigger picture here, anet needs to add cloth nodes
We all do as we must to make our way in this world and unfortunately,
we have to do things others may qualify as “evil”.
~Krunch Bloodrage, Looking For Group
we have to do things others may qualify as “evil”.
~Krunch Bloodrage, Looking For Group
Its a conspiracy by the devs. They log on their alt accounts and play the market every night to hoard silk (ideally while laughing at us in teamspeak), and we have to play twice as long to make anything. And with us so busy farming mats we will never have time to notice them putting more and more items in the gemstore, and they will be able to get away with slowly turning this game into a pw2 game, nd with all the money they get they will be able to buy off enough politicians to make #esports the national pastime so they can make even more money!
Borolis Pass – [TOVL]
Aeneaaa – 80 engineer
Aeeneaa – 80 Ele
Aeneaaa – 80 engineer
Aeeneaa – 80 Ele
There’s no reason for silk to take 100 per ascended mat when it’s over 4x the price of other ascended mats.
there is also no reason for taking less than 100 in an arbitrary setting. No, your need for cheap silk is not a proper reason.
What? Every other ascended mat only takes 50 things not 100, silk takes 100 for absolutely no reason. It had a reason, silk was useless, that reason isn’t true anymore.
There is a reason. You just havent been playing long enough to know that (granted, I didnt know the reason at first either). The reason that damask takes double the silk to craft is that there was such a glut of silk, that it was gw2’s thick leather sections of today. That massive oversupply was the decisive factor in anet making damask take 100 silk as opposed to 50. Consequently, that decision is half the reason why silk is at the price it is. The other half of the reason being silk/damask a required material for all armors.
Wow. He even said he knew exactly why it USED TO need to be high, yet you completely ignored him, and rambled on anyway. Nice one!
Does anyone have an actual argument other than “because mithril and elder wood logs are this way and silk isnt, therefore silk must conform”?
There’s been enough arguments in this and similar threads already. Not my fault you’re not reading them.
Does anyone think Anet didnt already consider this beforehand and consider the impacts?
Yes, i am sure they did consider the impact. I am also sure they underestimated it. Overkill is one of Anet’s signature moves.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Does anyone have an actual argument other than “because mithril and elder wood logs are this way and silk isnt, therefore silk must conform”?
There’s been enough arguments in this and similar threads already. Not my fault you’re not reading them.
Does anyone think Anet didnt already consider this beforehand and consider the impacts?
Yes, i am sure they did consider the impact. I am also sure they underestimated it. Overkill is one of Anet’s signature moves.
I don’t think they underestimated it. I think they purposefully made certain recipes absurd to inflate prices on certain hard to grind items. Like silver doubloons, all other types of materials similar to doubloons that are used in place of each other in the many recipes can be upgraded. But for some reason the one type of those that is used exclusively in a recipe for a legendary doesn’t have the capability. It also happens to be a material that is rare to get at level cap and so it can not be farmed for in the normal way for end game items. Its only makes sense that a low level mat should not be used in a crafting recipe, they should use platinum doubloons instead. Plus it should be possible to upgrade copper doubloons into the silvers and so on all the way up to platinums. But none of those are true and that is because arenanet wants it that way. They want the doubloons to be absurdly expensive, just like they want silk to be expensive. There is no oops they made a mistake and there is no good reason except for that arenanet wants it that way. Personally my tinfoil hat says its so that the trading post has some items that are expensive and needed in large quantities to keep people grinding gold or buying gold from the gemstore to bypass that grind.
To answer the first question without arguing for silk one way or another:
The price might be going up again if many people have decided to start crafting ascended gear for their Revenant. Like how everyone is gathering Tomes of Knowledge to get their Revenant insta-80 on launch.
The problem with silk is that they didn’t fix it once, they fixed it three times and each person fixing it didn’t realize someone else was fixing it as well. So what we get is as Astral says, overkill that not only fixed the glut but swung the pendulum all the way to the other side and then some.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
The problem with silk is that they didn’t fix it once, they fixed it three times and each person fixing it didn’t realize someone else was fixing it as well. So what we get is as Astral says, overkill that not only fixed the glut but swung the pendulum all the way to the other side and then some.
my guess? they probably wanted silk to go up to about 1-2 silver.
they balanced the supply, and the expected demand, and made some predictions.
they hit their mark pretty well, maybe overshot it a bit, but not too much
problem is they looked at it on a macro level, and they didnt realize that their solution made the player experience for cloth kind of suck balzack.
300 silk a day is terrible amount to try to gather, and 6 gold a day is an annoying amount to spend every day for 30 days.
essentially, its nice for the silk market, horrible for the main use of silk.
As if the government decided they had too much apples, and decided we have to destroy 80 apples a day to use the internet.
nice for apple sellers, sucky for people who want to use the internet.
Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard
I would argue that these issues aren’t actually related and shouldn’t be discussed as if they were.
Pay 2 win thats why, make all the mats have ridiculous gold cost to give incentive to people to buy convert gems to gold.
To paraphrase Inigo Montoya
“You keep using that phrase, I do not think it means what you think it does”
You might be able to achieve ascended gear faster by using real money, to get gold, but it only gets you there faster. If you go farm silk, you still get their.
If you believe getting ascended gear at an accelerated pace is “Winning” why even play?
Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hardI would argue that these issues aren’t actually related and shouldn’t be discussed as if they were.
I agree and I do understand the need for silk to be so high in price, as I was a player that played at release and quit before the ascended change. Silk was basically worthless when I quit; now there’s worth to silk and I think that a wortwhile change.
Hopefully you can answer a question for me though. Even though I do believe the price of silk must be very finicky and I respect all your decisions for the economy :
Why does it require so much more silk then the rest leading to damask being THAT much higher? Would making it so that it requires 75 bolts of silk (and thus 225 silk scraps) have too strong an effect and cause an overflow? On a related note, since you made this plan for silk, is there a plan for gossamer/hardened leather?
(edited by Sane.5072)
Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hardI would argue that these issues aren’t actually related and shouldn’t be discussed as if they were.
A better discussion is why farming for silk, for instance, (although all cloths are like this) has to be so difficult? What is the REAL reason cloth is so hard to come by compared to ore, lumber, and plants? Is this really necessary?
Maybe to boost gem sales, it is. Just curious since overall it makes no sense.
Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hardI would argue that these issues aren’t actually related and shouldn’t be discussed as if they were.
I suppose they’re related in a way, because the silk price is related to the saturation of silk the market, which is derived from it’s difficulty to farm.
I feel the main point of this thread is “Silk requirement for Damask is too high. Tone it down to be on-par with the other ascended materials.” OR “Give us silk worm nodes to farm silk from.”
The price of silk would be acceptable, if we only needed 150 silk instead of 300, but unfortunately that is not the case, and there is no way to regularly farm silk, besides sacrificing goats to RNG and hoping you get light armour drops to salvage.
The overall topic is still the same: Silk is an absolute mess at the moment, and something needs to be done about it, and theres a few realistic ways to do that.
Axe the amount of silk required for Damask. (Least effort on developer’s part.)
Tamper with the trading post to bring the price down. (short term fix.)
Silk worm nodes. (Most effort for devs, but probably the best long term solution if ArenaNet feels the unnaturally high requirement of silk for Damask is warranted.)
Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hardI would argue that these issues aren’t actually related and shouldn’t be discussed as if they were.
I think the split is actually here:
1. Cost of one bolt of silk
2. Total cost of silk for one bolt of damask
People here may be arguing that in the attempt to raise (1), (2) was inadvertently raised to be too high, especially in relation to other ascended materials.
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
Tamper with the trading post to bring the price down. (short term fix.)
HERESY!
Go place minimum value bids in for an ecto 1 at a time for 200 ectos as penance.
I think they purposefully made certain recipes absurd to inflate prices on certain hard to grind items. Like silver doubloons, all other types of materials similar to doubloons that are used in place of each other in the many recipes can be upgraded. But for some reason the one type of those that is used exclusively in a recipe for a legendary doesn’t have the capability. It also happens to be a material that is rare to get at level cap and so it can not be farmed for in the normal way for end game items. Its only makes sense that a low level mat should not be used in a crafting recipe, they should use platinum doubloons instead. Plus it should be possible to upgrade copper doubloons into the silvers and so on all the way up to platinums. But none of those are true and that is because arenanet wants it that way.
I think you are overanalyzing things and look for deeper meanings that are not here. I’m pretty sure that they used silver, not platinum doubloons, because the item created from them is called Vial of Quicksilver. And the item is called that because of the legendary visual effect.
I can be wrong, of course.
Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hardI would argue that these issues aren’t actually related and shouldn’t be discussed as if they were.
Hmm, i’d think that the ease at which the item can be farmed might influence the supply (or demand, if people would farm for it directly instead of buying), and thus the price. You disagree?
(And yes, the main topic seems to be the acqusition of silk for the ascended crafting, not the price of silk per se)
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
Tamper with the trading post to bring the price down. (short term fix.)
HERESY!
Go place minimum value bids in for an ecto 1 at a time for 200 ectos as penance.
That made me laugh way too hard!
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”