Guild Wars 2

I do think this is disappointing, and I say this as someone who plays WvW almost exclusively on one character. (I have two level 80 toons but I prefer the ranger to the warrior.) From what I’ve seen, a lot of the skills or upgrades that will be included are pretty universal things anyway – how different is using a mortar on a thief to using a mortar on a necro? Defending a tower or escorting a yak is defending a tower or escorting a yak, no matter how you do it. So it seems odd that that experience won’t transfer over between characters as far as the skills, titles and unlocks are concerned.

There are several commanders on our server who have, or are working towards, the commander badge on multiple alts. Even if they haven’t got the badge on a particular toon, I feel comfortable following them anyway, because I know they know what they’re doing. If people have established their abilities in WvW, why should their alts be weaker instead of benefitting from that experience?

I know but Arena Net could have pleased everyone. A strong majority of people who play alts in WvW want account bound. The amount of people that have alts that are going to scream bloody murder because of WvW being account bound is “almost” non-existent, at most they are indifferent like you tic.

account-bound is poor design decision for the long term. that`s it.
it`s why people play alts… for the joy of levelling up and making new characters stronger over time.
if everyone just had every class unlocked at 80 as soon as they achieved 80 on 1 class, it would be pretty dumb wouldn`t it.
if WvW achievements were account -bound… people would get maxed out in say a few weeks or a month, and become bored because they could never again get the feeling of improving their characters over time on an alt.
account-bound is locking yourself out of content on new characters.

and you are making this big stink now for what reason. you have absolutely no idea how long it takes to level up in WvW with the WXP. You have absolutely no basis for your argument. you`re whining about something you know nothing about other than ``it`s dumb, i don`t like it!!!!``
thanks for your opinion, we get it, now move on.

Are you seriously that ignorant that you can’t see the difference between what this topic is about. Its about WvW aka large Player vs. Player. Not character vs. Character. I have no problem leveling a character up from scratch, but once we are 80 the focus is now competitive play not PvE. We will see but given ANETs record of half baked goods and no public test server its easy to riled up.

“We want each character to have a unique experience in WvW, so World Ranks and WXP are all character-based values rather than account-based. We believe that in the long run, this will actually help incentivize players to experiment with various different ability builds for each character. "

It is good that they are trying to prevent profession stagnation and encouraging experimentation. Anything they can do to combat the “Oh, for this situation I need a Guardian” mentality is good for the game (in the long run).

Jski.6180:

Funny thing Arrow carts where effect by the condition dmg of the player using it so a high condition build would do more dmg with an arrow cart to living targets.

Any way why should WvW be fair? If i go in at a level 2 i cant take on a level 10 nor can i take on a level 80 that alone makes it unfair. On-top of numbers being different and the use of environment. Look at it this way in a war do you chair if the other side is calling what your doing as unfair?

I say it in the interest of it being friendly for anyone to just pick up and play; that’s what appealed about WvW to me before. I already play extremely hard in PvE and sometimes WvW for me is just a mode to jump in to and know that I can go “as-is”. It didn’t have its own ridiculous set of stats for people to lord over each other or for me to have to fiddle with instead of just focusing on the battle. The introduction of ranks and other “bragging rights” is exactly the last thing this game needed.

None of these things makes WvW worth playing for its own sake, instead you play WvW to level up in WvW for…what? No new actual mechanics were announced; this is just another character-based grind fest to “give us something to work towards”. Right.

Goloith.6349:

Vayne.8563:

Goloith.6349:

Shonie.5297:

Goloith.6349:

I’m sorry, but all I’m hearing from the selfish character bound crowd is me me me me me. Seriously, whether I play just one character like the devs want or if its account bound you should face the same skill/rank level as the people who put the same time in. How does this affect you if I’m on my alt with my bonuses? It doesn’t, the only thing it messes with is your selfish egos. WvW is a reward for most people and now you are going to make it a chore just to keep up. That’s right though, you character bound advocates want less competition anyways.

WvW Rank/Skills should show peoples total dedication to WvW, how is my dedication really shown if I hold a novice title and skills because I’m spread out amongst other characters.

Player 1 levels a character to level 80 in 80 hours.

Player 2 levels 2 characters to level 40 each in 80 hours.

Players 2 “why no me have both characters at max level like player 1. Me play just as long!!!!” /rage

Me: lol

The difference is that we are talking about rank and title in WvW. People who play alternate characters do it to help the guild/server. As mentioned in the OP, WvW is about player skill and not just character skill. That’s why most people, majority of alts and selfless people believe this should be account bound.

account bound = player skill

Not sure how you get the equation account bound equal’s player skill. There are plenty of account bound achievements that take no skill at all.

And I don’t believe that everyone who plays alternate characters does it to help the guild/server. I play alternate characters, because I have fun playing alternate characters. A lot of people are altoholics and play them because it’s fun for them. There are, if you haven’t noticed, an awful lot of altoholics out there. They’re not all selfless.

I think this is a case of your projecting what you do (commendable as it is) on the masses, who just play to have fun.

In many of the upper tiers in WvW organization and the correct profession composition really matters. Here are some examples:
-Mesmers for veil/portal/timewarp. A skilled mesmer will already have a safety portal for Golems without being asked. If their doing that they aren’t getting badges and WXP. So they already suffer.
-Frontliners (Guardians/Warriors): They are not just warm bodies. If the group is really struggling through choked the can give that needed protection and CC. EMP and other guilds have done GvG and it can really explain why fights are one just based on class composition.
-Elementalists: Their ability to rain down on siege and for their party swords are incredibly effective against doors.
-Thieves are also effective (their AoE stealth with be more effective next patch) with cloaking Golems to the target.
-Rangers are ok, but their pets are great for taking people out on siege.
-Engineers are great for taking over supply camps because of their solo abilities

So people aren’t just warm bodies whether they are ikittenerg or not. An Engineer is a poor choice if running with a zerg. Flamethrower will get you killed, Grenades are useless if your taking a tower with a smart leader (cats/treb vs. rams). Boon Spike Engineer maybe.

I really encourage people to watch EMP and other guilds GvG. It will provide those that don’t understand group composition.

I’ll have you know that the flamethrower comes in very handy for digging out those stealthing thieves/mesmers, especially great for clearing once a place is taken over too.

You also left out the Elixier gun which is great for healing allies/removing conds AND slamming CONSTANT cripple to multiple targets. Theres also plenty of Tools I could go into as well but why bother lol?

Laurelinde.4395:

I do think this is disappointing, and I say this as someone who plays WvW almost exclusively on one character. (I have two level 80 toons but I prefer the ranger to the warrior.) From what I’ve seen, a lot of the skills or upgrades that will be included are pretty universal things anyway – how different is using a mortar on a thief to using a mortar on a necro? Defending a tower or escorting a yak is defending a tower or escorting a yak, no matter how you do it. So it seems odd that that experience won’t transfer over between characters as far as the skills, titles and unlocks are concerned.

There are several commanders on our server who have, or are working towards, the commander badge on multiple alts. Even if they haven’t got the badge on a particular toon, I feel comfortable following them anyway, because I know they know what they’re doing. If people have established their abilities in WvW, why should their alts be weaker instead of benefitting from that experience?

That’s why I am so baffled as to why Arena Net feels they need to implement this as character bound. Is there really no future content other than more WvW skills coming down the pipe for WvW in the next months? When is the real content like guilds in WvW coming or maybe a new map or possibly a massive WvW conquest of all continents by server? Will it get here before the next best thing and people leave?

misterdevious.6482:

“We want each character to have a unique experience in WvW, so World Ranks and WXP are all character-based values rather than account-based. We believe that in the long run, this will actually help incentivize players to experiment with various different ability builds for each character. "

It is good that they are trying to prevent profession stagnation and encouraging experimentation. Anything they can do to combat the “Oh, for this situation I need a Guardian” mentality is good for the game (in the long run).

I will agree with the profession stagnation and that is my first bullet point on the original post. If they do want us to play one profession, they are going to have to do a ton of work to make each profession more rounded. The best rounded/finished profession will be the meta. Engineer is supposed to be the jack of all trades and it’s played the least.

For example, I love my Engineer and it’s the most underplayed profession (Ranger might beat it), but it really lacks in a lot of areas. Take grenades against zergs. They do a lot of damage, but it lacks the mobility of it’s #1 skill which you have to spam repeatedly (wish it was a toggle) . Grenades do wonders to people on towers, but chances are a skilled commander isn’t going to take the rest of his group to a heavy reinforced tower at the gates, he’s probably going to step back and catapult it and make the enemy come to his group. Take the Flamethrower. It was meant to be the Engineers front-lining kit and all it does is miss, miss, miss – same with blowtorch. Also the way retaliation and confusion work Flaming ikittenerg = death. It should be a 1 retaliation/confusion damage on skill use, not it’s current state. What about group tanking? Guardian can heal better and self & party tank (Aegis) better than Engineer so how is Arena Net going to accomplish that?

So many things that Arena Net has to do if they want us to play one character religiously.

Sil.4560:

Jski.6180:

Funny thing Arrow carts where effect by the condition dmg of the player using it so a high condition build would do more dmg with an arrow cart to living targets.

Any way why should WvW be fair? If i go in at a level 2 i cant take on a level 10 nor can i take on a level 80 that alone makes it unfair. On-top of numbers being different and the use of environment. Look at it this way in a war do you chair if the other side is calling what your doing as unfair?

I say it in the interest of it being friendly for anyone to just pick up and play; that’s what appealed about WvW to me before. I already play extremely hard in PvE and sometimes WvW for me is just a mode to jump in to and know that I can go “as-is”. It didn’t have its own ridiculous set of stats for people to lord over each other or for me to have to fiddle with instead of just focusing on the battle. The introduction of ranks and other “bragging rights” is exactly the last thing this game needed.

None of these things makes WvW worth playing for its own sake, instead you play WvW to level up in WvW for…what? No new actual mechanics were announced; this is just another character-based grind fest to “give us something to work towards”. Right.

Well it is any level 2 can join in and help in wvw they will not be the best but every body has a use to it.

What you call “bragging rights” is what PvP is about in all games have you ever tried doing /rank in game? Its there for a reason so you can brag about your spvp rank.

They have added in a new mechanic if you look at the screen shot there is added ability to weapons of WvW that going to be a major factor to how you play.

I love playing alts, and I hate it when things are account bound, I want everything to be character bound, I want all my alts to not effect the other alts. This WvW Ranks thing is a fantastic idea, it lets each character progress, and not just 1 character progressing all the other characters. I hate how daily’s, achievements, laurels, monthly are all account bound and it kitten the progression of my alts

eisberg.2379:

I love playing alts, and I hate it when things are account bound, I want everything to be character bound, I want all my alts to not effect the other alts. This WvW Ranks thing is a fantastic idea, it lets each character progress, and not just 1 character progressing all the other characters. I hate how daily’s, achievements, laurels, monthly are all account bound and it kitten the progression of my alts

Probably the one thing we can all say with agreement is that ANET is not consistent with account/character bound.

eisberg.2379:

I love playing alts, and I hate it when things are account bound, I want everything to be character bound, I want all my alts to not effect the other alts. This WvW Ranks thing is a fantastic idea, it lets each character progress, and not just 1 character progressing all the other characters. I hate how daily’s, achievements, laurels, monthly are all account bound and it kitten the progression of my alts

Sounds like you hate content that is time gated. Anet introduced laurels/ascended gear to the daily so that you could only earn one per day. It’s also lame that dungeon tokens are time gated and we hit DR even when we swap toons.

Fact is, all new content is time gated and grindy. Anet swaps character based and account based mechanics depending on which one will take us longer to achieve, which is the exact opposite mentality of their pre launch manifesto, a game with no grind.

Ranks are not new to GW2. It’s just new to wvw. Everywhere else in the game ranks are account bound and measure player progression, so why did they make them character bound for wvw?

WTF? Ill repeat again, W T F.

On further thought, I think the best solution is to basically make WXP an account-wide currency, but still require per-character purchases of abilities with WXP.

This way you could earn WXP on whichever character you want to play at the time based on whatever criteria you like to use, but you would still have to earn enough WXP for however many characters you are trying to max out.

In other words, make WXP earned in the same way as dungeon tokens and titles, sPvP rank/glory/items, current WvW achievements, badges of honor, most legendary weapon components, laurels, guild commendations, gold, and so on.

(please note that I am not asking for more calendar-gating, that’s a separate issue)

The important thing is giving players the latitude of playing whichever character they want while still making progress toward the same long term goal. It’s a little bit troubling that they seem to have grasped this early on and have since unlearned it.

If they are dead set on this ‘character bound’ stuff then extend it to everything- as the same argument could be made for all mats you collect towards a legendary weapon, mats for levelling up crafting skills, etc.

Why is wvw singled out for ‘character regression’ as we should all be calling it? How is it any different to being able to farm mats on one toon and use them to craft on another?

I want to be able to progress my account whilst playing a toon that helps the overall formation that we are playing in wvw- not be forced onto one toon and pretty much one build in order to build a ‘wvw’ title and then lose that title whenerver I hop on one of my other lvl 80 full exotic alts.

Is there a WvW Ability List out there anyplace? If the patch is in two days, they must have the list finalized.

Kintari.4172:

On further thought, I think the best solution is to basically make WXP an account-wide currency, but still require per-character purchases of abilities with WXP.

This way you could earn WXP on whichever character you want to play at the time based on whatever criteria you like to use, but you would still have to earn enough WXP for however many characters you are trying to max out.

In other words, make WXP earned in the same way as dungeon tokens and titles, sPvP rank/glory/items, current WvW achievements, badges of honor, most legendary weapon components, laurels, guild commendations, gold, and so on.

(please note that I am not asking for more calendar-gating, that’s a separate issue)

The important thing is giving players the latitude of playing whichever character they want while still making progress toward the same long term goal. It’s a little bit troubling that they seem to have grasped this early on and have since unlearned it.

Which is what I said earlier, though perhaps not as clearly.

I used to play LotRO on one of the then-new servers. In LotRO, the only form of PvP was Player vs Monster Player where you could take your regular character to a certain area and kill Sauron’s forces or you could make a new character that was a member of Sauron’s forces (Monster). Monster classes were unique to PvMP and started at max character level. Killing players and doing quests (capture the bridge/keep etc) earned you experience to gain PvMP ranks which unlocked cosmetics and, in the case of Monster Players, new skills. Each rank came with a visible icon next to your name. PvMP rank was character-based.

In the time I played LotRO I was an officer in the top raid guild and regularly played with the top PvMP guild of my server (and the two guilds later merged). I knew all of the top ranked players on the server and, in many cases, I watched them level up their PvMP ranks from scratch. It took over a year for our server to get a level 10, and that person almost exclusively spent his time in PvMP, by which I mean 8-10+ hours per day 6-7 days a week. The last time I checked, which was a couple of months ago, the server had finally managed to get a couple of lvl 14s but still lacked a lvl 15 (max rank). It’s been over three years and the server still doesn’t have a lvl 15. In fact there are relatively few level 15s overall and the vast majority are characters on the heavily populated servers that were started in 2007.

Do you really want to spend 80 hours per week on one character in WvW for the next 3 years in order to get all your unlocks on that character… and then another 3 years to do the same on a single alt?

Sokar Rostau.7316:

Kintari.4172:

On further thought, I think the best solution is to basically make WXP an account-wide currency, but still require per-character purchases of abilities with WXP.

This way you could earn WXP on whichever character you want to play at the time based on whatever criteria you like to use, but you would still have to earn enough WXP for however many characters you are trying to max out.

In other words, make WXP earned in the same way as dungeon tokens and titles, sPvP rank/glory/items, current WvW achievements, badges of honor, most legendary weapon components, laurels, guild commendations, gold, and so on.

(please note that I am not asking for more calendar-gating, that’s a separate issue)

The important thing is giving players the latitude of playing whichever character they want while still making progress toward the same long term goal. It’s a little bit troubling that they seem to have grasped this early on and have since unlearned it.

Which is what I said earlier, though perhaps not as clearly.

I used to play LotRO on one of the then-new servers. In LotRO, the only form of PvP was Player vs Monster Player where you could take your regular character to a certain area and kill Sauron’s forces or you could make a new character that was a member of Sauron’s forces (Monster). Monster classes were unique to PvMP and started at max character level. Killing players and doing quests (capture the bridge/keep etc) earned you experience to gain PvMP ranks which unlocked cosmetics and, in the case of Monster Players, new skills. Each rank came with a visible icon next to your name. PvMP rank was character-based.

In the time I played LotRO I was an officer in the top raid guild and regularly played with the top PvMP guild of my server (and the two guilds later merged). I knew all of the top ranked players on the server and, in many cases, I watched them level up their PvMP ranks from scratch. It took over a year for our server to get a level 10, and that person almost exclusively spent his time in PvMP, by which I mean 8-10+ hours per day 6-7 days a week. The last time I checked, which was a couple of months ago, the server had finally managed to get a couple of lvl 14s but still lacked a lvl 15 (max rank). It’s been over three years and the server still doesn’t have a lvl 15. In fact there are relatively few level 15s overall and the vast majority are characters on the heavily populated servers that were started in 2007.

Do you really want to spend 80 hours per week on one character in WvW for the next 3 years in order to get all your unlocks on that character… and then another 3 years to do the same on a single alt?

I immediately thought of LOTRO PvMP when I read the WvW changes, and not in a good way.

LOTRO PvMP is the epitome of kitten RvR design. That is: put together a relatively interesting, but basic, system. Then layer an excessive grind over top of it. Afterwards, change nothing except for some tinkering around the edges.

Within these parameters, LOTRO PvMP is actually pretty fun. And so is GW2 (in a slightly different, zerg-oriented way).

However, it really remains to be seen if anything will actually change in the future in WvW. It could end up stagnant like LOTRO PvMP, especially, if like LOTRO, Anet puts all their resources into PvE.

Reads the OP

Dedication to WvW? Oh, they mean dedication to spamming 1. Gotcha.
Character based so you can further show your dedication to spamming 1. Oh, they mean character based since zerglets ride the karma train to 80 anyway. Well that makes more sense.

They should just drop the pretense and say what they mean.

Lensar.4920:

Nice catch.

Name – Cost – Descrption

Guard Killer – 1/2/3/4/5 – Increases damage to enemy guards.
Defense Against Guards – 1/2/3/4/5 – Reduces damage taken from enemy guards.
Mercenaries Bane – 1/2/3/4/5 – Increases damage done to, and taken from, Mercenaries.
Siege Bunker – 3/6/9/12/15 – Reduces damage taken by siege.
Siege Might – 5/10/15/20/25 – Increases damage done with siege.
Supply Capacity – 20/40/60/80/100 – Increases supply capacity.
Cannon Mastery – 5/10/15/20/25 – Improve cannon use.
Ballista Mastery – 5/10/15/20/25 – Improve ballista skills.

Interesting stuff. Siege bunker seems like a bargain if my price estimates are correct.

I’m in a WvW guild, as such I run what role is required for my team. I have no issue with achievements being character bound long term selfishly, but what I’m worried about is having to pick a main. I’m already struggling with this ascended stuff, I got an amulet from laurels which went on the Mesmer, but no idea who gets what next. I don’t have alts, I have mains. I’ve worked hard to be a proficient killer and team player on each class. I like the idea of titles being character bound, when you kill that high ranked guy, it feels good to give yourself a pat on the back, you will feel like you earned it rather than wiping the floor with some dude and his legendary.
I’m just worried about how much of a boost the abilities will give, will it really force me to say “hey guys, I understand we are a team but, I really need the wxp on my Ele.” That would just be horrible.

I can’t think of a way to balance it. If these abilities are quick to do, that’s fine. Let me get those in a month or two, and let me work on my titles for a few years. Blah.

Ps: if I worked for months on my staff Ele, and got a good title, and then made a thief. I wouldn’t want it on my thief, because it would just be misleading. (I’m a terrible thief, I’ve resigned myself to that fact haha)

Beorn Saxon.4762:

eisberg.2379:

I love playing alts, and I hate it when things are account bound, I want everything to be character bound, I want all my alts to not effect the other alts. This WvW Ranks thing is a fantastic idea, it lets each character progress, and not just 1 character progressing all the other characters. I hate how daily’s, achievements, laurels, monthly are all account bound and it kitten the progression of my alts

Sounds like you hate content that is time gated. Anet introduced laurels/ascended gear to the daily so that you could only earn one per day. It’s also lame that dungeon tokens are time gated and we hit DR even when we swap toons.

Fact is, all new content is time gated and grindy. Anet swaps character based and account based mechanics depending on which one will take us longer to achieve, which is the exact opposite mentality of their pre launch manifesto, a game with no grind.

Ranks are not new to GW2. It’s just new to wvw. Everywhere else in the game ranks are account bound and measure player progression, so why did they make them character bound for wvw?

WTF? Ill repeat again, W T F.

ok heres how i see it.

truth is, it probably shouldnt be account bound.
this is PvP is charachter based. Your achievements and skills you have learned and show off, are with a specific charachter. You could have played mesmer for 300 hours, it doesnt mean now you are a master ranger. Your Thief could be a master at sneaking up on people, taking camps and getting in small skirmishes, this doesnt mean your guardian would be built the same way. It doesnt mean you ve earned and mastered how to execute a similar playstyle on your guardian.

Truth is, the titles should be charachter bound.

however i do understand what people mean by it feeling like a grind, and maybe making you play one class. I mean it makes sense, why people are upset, but it makes more sense that you have to actually progress on a charachter individually.

phys.7689:

Beorn Saxon.4762:

eisberg.2379:

I love playing alts, and I hate it when things are account bound, I want everything to be character bound, I want all my alts to not effect the other alts. This WvW Ranks thing is a fantastic idea, it lets each character progress, and not just 1 character progressing all the other characters. I hate how daily’s, achievements, laurels, monthly are all account bound and it kitten the progression of my alts

Sounds like you hate content that is time gated. Anet introduced laurels/ascended gear to the daily so that you could only earn one per day. It’s also lame that dungeon tokens are time gated and we hit DR even when we swap toons.

Fact is, all new content is time gated and grindy. Anet swaps character based and account based mechanics depending on which one will take us longer to achieve, which is the exact opposite mentality of their pre launch manifesto, a game with no grind.

Ranks are not new to GW2. It’s just new to wvw. Everywhere else in the game ranks are account bound and measure player progression, so why did they make them character bound for wvw?

WTF? Ill repeat again, W T F.

ok heres how i see it.

truth is, it probably shouldnt be account bound.
this is PvP is charachter based. Your achievements and skills you have learned and show off, are with a specific charachter. You could have played mesmer for 300 hours, it doesnt mean now you are a master ranger. Your Thief could be a master at sneaking up on people, taking camps and getting in small skirmishes, this doesnt mean your guardian would be built the same way. It doesnt mean you ve earned and mastered how to execute a similar playstyle on your guardian.

Truth is, the titles should be charachter bound.

however i do understand what people mean by it feeling like a grind, and maybe making you play one class. I mean it makes sense, why people are upset, but it makes more sense that you have to actually progress on a charachter individually.

Except, the WvW abilities affect non-class things that can be done regardless of what class you’re playing.
If someone is skilled with siege, then they’ll be skilled with siege regardless of what class they’re playing. But with wxp being character bound, this person becomes less effective on siege when they’re playing an alt, not because they specced for something else, but because that character doesn’t have the wxp to spec for it.
And then the more alts (and therefore the more teamwork-related utility) a person has the more they’re punished with low ranks.

@ gimmethegepgun.1284
As i said before siege is a class ability. Condition dmg on the hero translates to higher condition dmg on siege weapons. Also higher def and passive heals etc.. make you a far better “ramer.” A class with high mobility make you into a “runner” for supplies. A class who can support well and speed up ppl are best used for transporter of dolys. Now its not by a lot but its enofe to if you are going all in to win dose effect the out come of things. The update with wxp make it so its no longer a class thing and more about builds a lot like how PvE is and Spvp.

Should be account bound. I’ll play on just about any of the 11 characters I have. I’ll be getting more or less nothing at all from this system as it stands, which is obviously not a very happy thing.

Why should this be treated differently to sPvP ranking and rewards?

Sarrs.4831:

Should be account bound. I’ll play on just about any of the 11 characters I have. I’ll be getting more or less nothing at all from this system as it stands, which is obviously not a very happy thing.

Why should this be treated differently to sPvP ranking and rewards?

Ok let me put it this way image how annoying it would be to take each of your off heroes to have to retrate them every time you want to play them. That is what your asking for. If i want to go all in dmg to camps i will need to redo my trates for wvw.

Stop thinking of it was a true “rank” its an leveling system that you chose where to go into. The only thing that is close to a rank is the titles.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

phys.7689:

Beorn Saxon.4762:

eisberg.2379:

I love playing alts, and I hate it when things are account bound, I want everything to be character bound, I want all my alts to not effect the other alts. This WvW Ranks thing is a fantastic idea, it lets each character progress, and not just 1 character progressing all the other characters. I hate how daily’s, achievements, laurels, monthly are all account bound and it kitten the progression of my alts

Sounds like you hate content that is time gated. Anet introduced laurels/ascended gear to the daily so that you could only earn one per day. It’s also lame that dungeon tokens are time gated and we hit DR even when we swap toons.

Fact is, all new content is time gated and grindy. Anet swaps character based and account based mechanics depending on which one will take us longer to achieve, which is the exact opposite mentality of their pre launch manifesto, a game with no grind.

Ranks are not new to GW2. It’s just new to wvw. Everywhere else in the game ranks are account bound and measure player progression, so why did they make them character bound for wvw?

WTF? Ill repeat again, W T F.

ok heres how i see it.

truth is, it probably shouldnt be account bound.
this is PvP is charachter based. Your achievements and skills you have learned and show off, are with a specific charachter. You could have played mesmer for 300 hours, it doesnt mean now you are a master ranger. Your Thief could be a master at sneaking up on people, taking camps and getting in small skirmishes, this doesnt mean your guardian would be built the same way. It doesnt mean you ve earned and mastered how to execute a similar playstyle on your guardian.

Truth is, the titles should be charachter bound.

however i do understand what people mean by it feeling like a grind, and maybe making you play one class. I mean it makes sense, why people are upset, but it makes more sense that you have to actually progress on a charachter individually.

Except, the WvW abilities affect non-class things that can be done regardless of what class you’re playing.
If someone is skilled with siege, then they’ll be skilled with siege regardless of what class they’re playing. But with wxp being character bound, this person becomes less effective on siege when they’re playing an alt, not because they specced for something else, but because that character doesn’t have the wxp to spec for it.
And then the more alts (and therefore the more teamwork-related utility) a person has the more they’re punished with low ranks.

not really true, the playstyle for a guardian on seige is to take a lot of damage probably best manning the towers, the playstyle for a mesmer or roamer on seige that works best isnt the manning of the tower, but being in that far off place/hidden place. One who is skilled at being on the edge of a keep or tower, is not necesarily the one who knows how to best make use of seige as a roamer might and vice versa.

If your have alts, and your thief is mostly about taking camps super fast and attacking dolyaks then seige is probably not your thing anyhow, why should your theif who you trained as a roaming camp stealer get access to the seige skills you learned on your guardian? If you are swapping jobs to fulfill different roles better, then why do you need the buffs that dont help that role.

your guardian plays 30 hours, gets the buffs relevant to his playstyle, your theif plays 30 hours gets the buffs that benefit his playstyle. your still the guy who switches charachters to be more effecient at a certain role. I think its logical that in order for your theif to get better at taking on camps and supply denial, you should probably have to actually play your theif, most likely doing that type of thing, rather than play your guardian so your theif can be an even better roamer.

as to the fact that all classes could use the ability, many classes have traits that give you 20% recast reduction on greatsword. Does this mean its applied in the same way on every class? Do you think once one character unlocks this trait, every charachter should?

Jski.6180:

Ok let me put it this way image how annoying it would be to take each of your off heroes to have to retrate them every time you want to play them. That is what your asking for. If i want to go all in dmg to camps i will need to redo my trates for wvw.

Stop thinking of it was a true “rank” its an leveling system that you chose where to go into. The only thing that is close to a rank is the titles.

…Uhhh. Is this trait points or trait selection? Because if it’s trait points, that’s fantastic. I can get free respecs and play around with whatever I feel like on the day.

Trait selection? I have to do that on most of my characters whenever I go underwater anyway. There’s not even any indication that you’re able to reallocate your wuvwuv points at all, nor is there any indication that you can’t just buy every one of them anyway. If you could have a “second spec” that you could change into when you change characters, would you be okay with that? Because I’d be really happy with that, just for the one character! My main bounces between 3 builds with 8 variations all up!

I’m very skeptical about thinking the way you’re telling me to think because you don’t really seem to have thought about it all that much yourself.

I only took the time to read the first page of responses, but I’m very fascinated at the response concerning Character Bound vs. Account Bound.

I personally believe Character Bound to be the far superior choice.

I can certainly understand why some things are account bound, but I support as many character bound mechanics as possible. The entire reason I make new characters is for them to feel like their own separate entities, with their own separate adventures.

I run 4 different level 80 characters in WvW (Ele, War, Guard, Mes), and I actually would hate to have them level up together as one indeterminate mass, as if one of them gaining experience was somehow making the other more experienced and powerful.

I even find it a pity that achievements are account bound, as it now feels like the 4 characters I do play are all somehow sharing in some collective prestige. I would love to see each character’s stats, how many they’ve killed, what they’ve capped, what they’ve done, rather than globbing them all together.

The idea of an “Account Bound WEXP” just seems off to me. It certainly will take more time to level up each of the characters with character bound content, but it just feels like the proper design. This was the correct choice, ANet.

Shonie.5297:

account-bound is poor design decision for the long term. that`s it.
it`s why people play alts… for the joy of levelling up and making new characters stronger over time.
if everyone just had every class unlocked at 80 as soon as they achieved 80 on 1 class, it would be pretty dumb wouldn`t it.
if WvW achievements were account -bound… people would get maxed out in say a few weeks or a month, and become bored because they could never again get the feeling of improving their characters over time on an alt.
account-bound is locking yourself out of content on new characters.

This would be relevant if the WvW abilities were interesting and provided genuine opportunities for different progression like the levelling process but from the list we have seen they aren’t, they’re mundane abilities that will help in WvW but are hardly anything to get excited as far as building a character.

They look like abilities that have developed in a short time frame to give the appearance of providing WvW progression whilst having little effect on the game, cause after all they don’t want to provide a barrier to entry.

PvE and sPvP rank and title are account bound so why this deviation? For those that don’t know these skills are not refundable. ANET could have at least made rank and title account bound and made it that you could spend these points on whatever you wanted like badges of honor. Let’s just hope that this progression is short-term character bound and ANET actually has real content instead of fluff coming down the pipe.

Sarrs.4831:

Jski.6180:

Ok let me put it this way image how annoying it would be to take each of your off heroes to have to retrate them every time you want to play them. That is what your asking for. If i want to go all in dmg to camps i will need to redo my trates for wvw.

Stop thinking of it was a true “rank” its an leveling system that you chose where to go into. The only thing that is close to a rank is the titles.

…Uhhh. Is this trait points or trait selection? Because if it’s trait points, that’s fantastic. I can get free respecs and play around with whatever I feel like on the day.

Trait selection? I have to do that on most of my characters whenever I go underwater anyway. There’s not even any indication that you’re able to reallocate your wuvwuv points at all, nor is there any indication that you can’t just buy every one of them anyway. If you could have a “second spec” that you could change into when you change characters, would you be okay with that? Because I’d be really happy with that, just for the one character! My main bounces between 3 builds with 8 variations all up!

I’m very skeptical about thinking the way you’re telling me to think because you don’t really seem to have thought about it all that much yourself.

“World Ability Points can be spent on unique WvW abilities that improve your character in whatever roll you may find yourself in—anything from increasing the amount of supply you can hold to increasing defense from siege attacks to new siege weapon skills. You can train multiple times in the same ability, which increases the effectiveness of the ability, but also increases the cost.

Keep in mind, the choices you make with your World Ability Points are permanent. Much like our skill system, over time all of the abilities will be unlocked as you progress in World Rank."

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/world-vs-world-introducing-world-ranks-and-more/

That where my point of view is coming from.

Side note i though this was know have ppl stopped reading update that Anet puts out and only read what other ppl are saying?

Jski.6180:

“World Ability Points can be spent on unique WvW abilities that improve your character in whatever roll you may find yourself in—anything from increasing the amount of supply you can hold to increasing defense from siege attacks to new siege weapon skills. You can train multiple times in the same ability, which increases the effectiveness of the ability, but also increases the cost.

Keep in mind, the choices you make with your World Ability Points are permanent. Much like our skill system, over time all of the abilities will be unlocked as you progress in World Rank."

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/world-vs-world-introducing-world-ranks-and-more/

That where my point of view is coming from.

Oh, okay.

I still don’t really care all that much, because I’d rather have some benefits that I’m not building a particular character for rather than no benefits at all, assuming that XP scales in a similar way to PvE rather than the brutal slog that is sPvP.

Then again, if it scales like PvE, then it’s not much of a slog at all to get to max level, in which case this entire debacle is pointless because you’ll be 100% maxed out in 20 minutes.

A much better patch would have been giving WvW characters access to ascended items via badges. Same with commander tags. A better patch would have been rewarding special behaviors like escorting a dolyak in. Say 5 badges? Seems awfully fair compared to getting 10-15 badges in a single zerg vs zerg fight. All ANET had to do was unlock these abilities with badges and it would have greatly motivated people to get back to WvW. Instead we get another currency.

Goloith.6349:

A much better patch would have been giving WvW characters access to ascended items via badges. Same with commander tags. A better patch would have been rewarding special behaviors like escorting a dolyak in. Say 5 badges? Seems awfully fair compared to getting 10-15 badges in a single zerg vs zerg fight. All ANET had to do was unlock these abilities with badges and it would have greatly motivated people to get back to WvW. Instead we get another currency.

I dunno, I think badges are kinda flawed; they reward activities that might not really be in the best interests of winning the game. Over in sPvP land, you get Glory for doing things, anything at all, that helps your team. Over in WvWvW, you get badges for killing people and finishing JPs; the first is helpful most of the time, the second isn’t.

Sarrs.4831:

Goloith.6349:

A much better patch would have been giving WvW characters access to ascended items via badges. Same with commander tags. A better patch would have been rewarding special behaviors like escorting a dolyak in. Say 5 badges? Seems awfully fair compared to getting 10-15 badges in a single zerg vs zerg fight. All ANET had to do was unlock these abilities with badges and it would have greatly motivated people to get back to WvW. Instead we get another currency.

I dunno, I think badges are kinda flawed; they reward activities that might not really be in the best interests of winning the game. Over in sPvP land, you get Glory for doing things, anything at all, that helps your team. Over in WvWvW, you get badges for killing people and finishing JPs; the first is helpful most of the time, the second isn’t.

On this topic in particular:

Removing badges from JPs might not be a bad idea. Compensate with adding them as a reward for capping Towers/Keeps/SM.

You can make JPs about acquiring Siege Prints, maybe even adding a print or two to their chest, which still makes them worthwhile in a lot of ways.

Prior to the looting change, I acquired most of the badges for my Gifts of Battle using the JPs. It doesn’t exactly scream WvW contribution, but they used to drop so infrequently. Hours of play could sometimes net less than 10 badges. In the current state, though, acquiring badges is reasonable, and so I wouldn’t mind them shifted away from the JPs and into a more objective based action.

LFk.1408:

I only took the time to read the first page of responses, but I’m very fascinated at the response concerning Character Bound vs. Account Bound.

I personally believe Character Bound to be the far superior choice.

I can certainly understand why some things are account bound, but I support as many character bound mechanics as possible. The entire reason I make new characters is for them to feel like their own separate entities, with their own separate adventures.

I run 4 different level 80 characters in WvW (Ele, War, Guard, Mes), and I actually would hate to have them level up together as one indeterminate mass, as if one of them gaining experience was somehow making the other more experienced and powerful.

I even find it a pity that achievements are account bound, as it now feels like the 4 characters I do play are all somehow sharing in some collective prestige. I would love to see each character’s stats, how many they’ve killed, what they’ve capped, what they’ve done, rather than globbing them all together.

The idea of an “Account Bound WEXP” just seems off to me. It certainly will take more time to level up each of the characters with character bound content, but it just feels like the proper design. This was the correct choice, ANet.

Character-bound WEXP would make sense if the skills rewarded were actually active skills that differentiated yourself from other players or characters. For example, finishing moves, special WvW-only boons, conditions or AoEs.

The list of WvW skills Anet has provided, however, are completely generic. At most you can say that they can heighten a particular role (like Siege-Master, Camp-Flipper etc.). Those are pretty anemic roles though, and almost not worth the effort to level them (except for the Supply bonus). Since they are so generic, nothing is lost by making them account-bound.

It should also be pointed out that another RvR game, Planetside 2, launched a few months after GW2, and has what are essentially account-bound skills. It’s an MMOFPS, but the principle is the same. Your rank xp and point accumulation goes into one pool, irrespective of the class you are currently playing. Once spent, however, the resulting upgrades are limited to a particular class that is allowed to access them. Excellent system.

No way is an MMOFPS the same as an MMORPG. The difference is between an RPG and an FPS. FPS players don’t “play characters”. A lot of altoholics do. We’ve already seen people in this thread say that it would be more interested and immersive for them to get separate characters separate. People play alts in MMOs to have different characters, not the same character over and over.

If this helps differentiate the characters, then it belongs in an RPG. If it doesn’t, then it probably doesn’t.

In my opinion it does.

Vayne.8563:

People play alts in MMOs to have different characters, not the same character over and over.

Dunno about anyone else but I play alts in MMOs so I have a field of character classes I can use to buffer the buff/nerf cycle, so I can try different playstyles, so I can more effectively play dressup, and so I have more characters to RP with.

Vayne.8563:

If this helps differentiate the characters, then it belongs in an RPG. If it doesn’t, then it probably doesn’t.

But the point is the abilities are so mundane that they don’t.

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

If this helps differentiate the characters, then it belongs in an RPG. If it doesn’t, then it probably doesn’t.

But the point is the abilities are so mundane that they don’t.

Because we’ve seen very single ability so far.

Vayne.8563:

Because we’ve seen very single ability so far.

Why would they preview the lame abilities and not the ones which carry more impact, which everybody would find much more interesting?

Just my 2c for what it is worth.

I’ve come from a game which had open map pvp like WvW, though definitely not to the same level of quality design as what ANet has implemented. I personally like the character specificity of these achievements and upgrades. In the game i used to play you had to earn your abilities and titles by playing on the class you wanted the upgrades and titles for. If you wanted them on a second character you went and played on that second character.

This meant that if you ran into a rank 12 you knew that they had put some dedication into their class. It didn’t necessarily mean they were better but you at least knew that they had spent a lot of time playing on that particular class. Similarly you know that the rank 2 in front on you has spent probably only a handful of hours on that character, alt or main.

I like to play WvW with friends. In fact, i don’t go out solo because it doesn’t interest me. I usually run around in a group of 2-4 people and if needed i am more than happy to play a different class to what i start the night on. Heck we’ve even rolled lvl 2’s just for the giggles of running around on lvl 2’s of the same race out there together. I’ve played multiple classes out there and will continue to do so.

Yet I still really like the idea that if i get to a high rank on my main it isn’t going to show that on my other characters and that each character gets their own stuff.

Though, for me the highlight of WvW is the gameplay itself. I enjoy going out there and killing other players. That at the core is what pvp is about. All the bells and whistles are nice but pvp should be played for fun, everything else is just gravy.

Extra passives to earn that give small but nice little benefits. Sweet! New titles. Cool! Some nice little extras to get as i play WvW the way it is intended – for the pure enjoyment of the pvp.

See you all on the battlefield!

Have fun!

Sarrs.4831:

Vayne.8563:

Because we’ve seen very single ability so far.

Why would they preview the lame abilities and not the ones which carry more impact, which everybody would find much more interesting?

I’m not really sure why Anet would preview anything. It could be that they’re previewing the less contraversial abilities instead of the ones they know are going to cause a stir. It could be they’re not on the same page as some people.

It could be that they used some examples loosely, without thinking about it. It could be the person who wrote the blog post thought those abilities were cool and other people think different abilities are cool.

Are you suggesting Anet has never stuff up a PR point before? lol

Vayne.8563:

I’m not really sure why Anet would preview anything. It could be that they’re previewing the less contraversial abilities instead of the ones they know are going to cause a stir. It could be they’re not on the same page as some people.

It could be that they used some examples loosely, without thinking about it. It could be the person who wrote the blog post thought those abilities were cool and other people think different abilities are cool.

Are you suggesting Anet has never stuff up a PR point before? lol

Anet’s goal is to get people interested in the game. Their best way to do this is to post something and go “hey, look how kitten COOL this is”.

I very strongly doubt that they’d make their releases without thinking about them, and if we’re going to assume Anet’s incompetent, then anything goes, really. They might be introducing the ability to attach roller skates to dolyaks.

…Y’know now that I think about it that’d be really cool.

Sarrs.4831:

Vayne.8563:

I’m not really sure why Anet would preview anything. It could be that they’re previewing the less contraversial abilities instead of the ones they know are going to cause a stir. It could be they’re not on the same page as some people.

It could be that they used some examples loosely, without thinking about it. It could be the person who wrote the blog post thought those abilities were cool and other people think different abilities are cool.

Are you suggesting Anet has never stuff up a PR point before? lol

Anet’s goal is to get people interested in the game. Their best way to do this is to post something and go “hey, look how kitten COOL this is”.

I very strongly doubt that they’d make their releases without thinking about them, and if we’re going to assume Anet’s incompetent, then anything goes, really. They might be introducing the ability to attach roller skates to dolyaks.

…Y’know now that I think about it that’d be really cool.

Sure, but Anet hasn’t always read the public right and the list of PR gaffs is pretty long. In fact, one would think they’re thinking less about marketing and more about making the game, because they’re gamers, not salesmen. At least, all the evidence points to this.

And they have a certain way of seeing things based on actually usage, that might be very different when the game is released. Like the Guild Missions. Testers did these missions without ever prescouting the bounties. But most guilds do prescout, so the whole onus of the mission is changed.

No, I think it’s safe to say that waiting before we judge is better than making an assumption, at least when it comes to Anet and the way they present information.

I could care less about unlocking the skills on each of my lvl80 mains – that’s not what is irratating. In any event they are not really going to be that powerful and it won’t take long to unlock whichever ones each of my toons needs.

What’s annoying is having the ranking system character bound- if I have achieved say 10,000 Wexp points over 10 characters how is this different to achieving it on one (apart from the obvious fact that I can play more than one toon effectively). Why should some noob thief have the title reflecting 10k points for being to exploit the most stupid mechanic ever put in a game when my 10 toons all run around with some noob title despite having to put much more effort?

If you really like this ‘each toon gets it’s own stuff’ then get ANet to separate each of your toons out, block any interaction between them and ban you from sending anything by email and block access to the TP, and stop you from having a common warehouse. There. Now you are on the same level with each toon.

I bet there would be a lot more noise if they had decided any dungeon drop is character bound – so you could only obtain dungeon gear for that particular toon by doing that dungeon on that class, and all fractal drops were immediately character bound so you have to complete fractals on that toon to get your gear, etc.

But they didn’t. It appears it is one rule for pve’rs and only Wvw’rs get these stupid idea hoisted on them.

ANET lacks consistency. I read some of the posts here and half of them seem to come from solo players or PvEer .

Jski.6180:

Well it is any level 2 can join in and help in wvw they will not be the best but every body has a use to it.

What you call “bragging rights” is what PvP is about in all games have you ever tried doing /rank in game? Its there for a reason so you can brag about your spvp rank.

They have added in a new mechanic if you look at the screen shot there is added ability to weapons of WvW that going to be a major factor to how you play.

Meh, it’s true that everyone can run siege or run supply, but this will diminish that openness. I’m just sad to see that fact. I like the idea of different roles but making them character specific and whatnot actually seems to make WvW a less inclusive mode than it already is.

As for PvP, bragging rights, etc., I’ve never been one for the whole senseless posturing. I don’t see the need to beat my chest in a game like some sort of internet ape and usually people who do are rather annoying. Haven’t ever tried /rank. Not my thing. <_>

I think this is a good place to quickly throw in my two cents:

to quote: “The goal for this system is to ensure that players always have something to constantly work towards.”

Something to constantly work towards? Sounds like the game is really driving progression based gaming. Again, I feel cheated and lied to. In the months leading up to the game’s release I was so excited because there was no item progression, or any progression system once you unlocked all abilities(which you do before level 10), have 70 traits to spend at max level, and get your max level exotic set. My gosh, with everything released since November 15th, this game went from being great to just another mediocre MMO.

Something to constantly work towards. I wanted to give myself goals to work toward, not Arenanet give them to me. Why do I need to have goals given from Arenanet? Laurels? Fractal relics? Commendtions/Merits? WXP points? The amount of currencies in this game is astounding and they are all given to you with the intent that you have something to work toward, structured by Anet. And I am not even mentioning skill points or anything like that.

Bottom line is, this game went from being semi-unique to becoming like everything else out there. I have no desire to play, at all anymore. Like many before me, I used to “defend” this game to people like myself. Go troll/flame me. I havent logged into the game in weeks because its turning out to be a big steaming pile where I feel the need to stat grind, gear grind, where devs honestly believe they did not go back on their original development plans, where posts like this one will be removed and infracted because its considered “complaining” although I am merely expressing my opinion(oh gosh its negative!) and things are rushed out the door before any real thought is given(fractals/fractal leveling system, guild missions(hey what about smaller guilds! Oh yah, we’ll help them out later)).

This was to be my last go around with an MMO and probably will be.

To make this a non-complaining thread in the hopes it wont get removed I will add some constructive criticism:
1. Change ascended stats to equal exotic stats. Just keep the infusion slots to make them useful for fractals.
2. Any word on legendary scavenger hunt? Community is getting restless. My sole purpose, since I had no interest in grinding fractals or running the raids(missions), was to get a legendary.
3. Really sit down and think about the WvW progression system you are so excited for. Make sure it provides no power to the individual, where two equi-geared and equi-skilled players match up, its anyones ball game.
4. Really sit down and think where the design of this game is going. Many thought it was going in the opposite direction than it is.
5. Player housing…I know its not on the radar, but I wish it were!

Actually if ask me whole thing is kinda not a issue because all of the WvW abilities are crap anyway except less dmg from siege and extra supply caring.