Guild Wars 2

I feel bad for anet they put all this design into HoT and then had to redo that design to balance it out (delaying upcoming content even more). Anet needs to focus on getting things done right the first time. Look at those mini adventures in HoT and how poorly that was done. Guild halls are almost pointless.

Totally agree Trinnity. For such a design change from core Tyria game, I think a large in-house beta test should have been attempted.

The expansion itself fun wise is great. What kills it are just few terribly misguided decisions such as:

- huge exp walls to balance out content shortage of HoT
- guild halls and scribe killing off small and probs some medium guilds
- unjustified price point
- not making at least core game elite specializations to give non xpac players somewhat of an even fighting ground in spvp.

ProtoGunner.4953:

What I don’t get is why they didn’t lower the price in any way after almost 9 months… 50 is too high for such little content. We haven’t seen anything than four maps soon one year into the expansion – that’s just embarrassing given the fact there a mere 4 maps.

It’s pretty simple. They know people will pay $50.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

slashlizardy.9167:

Yea i tried it and the maps are still dead

The HoT maps have more meta events requiring a larger player count to participate. So, it’d make sense then that the player base needs to be more proactive about getting on populated maps… Players now use squads and taxis a lot more in HoT maps than in core Tyria maps to help make sure the meta events succeed.
~EW

As true as this may be, the simple fact is that not all people spend hours “researching” how to play a game.
Anet may have been promoting their “Megaserver” tech but they never explained the need for “Taxi’s” to overcome the shortcomings of this wonder.

Yes; regular forumgoers/seasoned players gets that this kludge is a necessity to “enjoy” the content in HoT.
Some newer players and some of us casuals simply finds that other games are just more fun per minute than something with serious designflaws/overall poor implementation that requires kludges as taxi’s.

Some people conclude: This game is deserted, I’ll play nnn-game or give yyy-game a try instead.
I am quite sure only a few of these people take the time to “complain” about the empty maps here: Most are already having fun somewhere else.

Its 2016: If I need to be “proactive”, “research” or “work” to enjoy a game there’s a pretty high probability I will just move on to the next product.

ProtoGunner.4953:

I don’t speak about quality and the fact that those maps are rather complex. They are of course. But still, it is just too few content. In WoW you get 2 raids, 8 dungeons and about 7-8 maps to explore, and 2-3 months later there is another 1-2 dungeons, a new map and 1 new raid. I mean it’s so much more content it really hurts.

What I don’t get is why don’t they do what people want? Just push out more maps, make them simpler, people don’t like fancy and gimmicky stuff as they had to realize when Aetherpath failed. Anet always has this dream of re-inventing the wheel and fail at the people’s expectations. It is a noble intention, indeed, but at the end you have to deliver.

Sure, WoW delivers more maps. They also charge more, as in an XPac fee and the game rental fee to be able to play it. You pay the same fee as HoT, but a month later, you’re paying again. Those first three months of XPac play costs $80, with $15 due each month after for as long as you care to play.

You’re right, though, that ANet has tried to provide something different. I’m not sure that’s a bad thing, though. Copying WoW has hardly proved to be a resounding success for most games, even though WoW copying earlier games was the industry’s biggest coup.

It’s my hope that, with the change in game direction, ANet will prove able to deliver decent amounts of new stuff at somewhere around a 3 month release cadence. It’s also my hope that they’re done with new or re-imagined systems, at least until regular releases are and continue to be in the pipe.

What I don’t expect is that ANet will be able to keep up with the new content demand from the forums. Why would I expect that? Not even WoW does that. The only time anyone seems to think that Blizz releases are adequate is when they’re being compared to others.

I think it’s the focus on the Chinese release, the new player experience along with the dumb-down trait system/broken balance and free to play game but super expensive expansion that derailed the development of the game and lowered players appreciation.

Halandir.3609:

Anet may have been promoting their “Megaserver” tech but they never explained the need for “Taxi’s” to overcome the shortcomings of this wonder.

Map Taxis are a player-found solution to the player-caused problem of Map Taxis. The Megaserver generally does a decent job with evenly populating the maps. But then people take the tools that are supposed to allow guilds and friends to play with each other easily, and then abandon the maps by megaserver made to over-stuff a few.

No it didn’t, honestly i’d say it made it way better but opinion is opinion.

Sartharina.3542:

Halandir.3609:

Anet may have been promoting their “Megaserver” tech but they never explained the need for “Taxi’s” to overcome the shortcomings of this wonder.

Map Taxis are a player-found solution to the player-caused problem of Map Taxis. The Megaserver generally does a decent job with evenly populating the maps. But then people take the tools that are supposed to allow guilds and friends to play with each other easily, and then abandon the maps by megaserver made to over-stuff a few.

This. Taxiing, the supposed solution to mega-server problems, is actually a contributing cause, if not the primary cause, of those problems. This means the mega-server problem will never be fixed, because to do so would require removing the tools players use to play with friends. The kitten-storm which would ensue should ANet do so should not even be imagined.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Sartharina.3542:

Halandir.3609:

Anet may have been promoting their “Megaserver” tech but they never explained the need for “Taxi’s” to overcome the shortcomings of this wonder.

Map Taxis are a player-found solution to the player-caused problem of Map Taxis. The Megaserver generally does a decent job with evenly populating the maps. But then people take the tools that are supposed to allow guilds and friends to play with each other easily, and then abandon the maps by megaserver made to over-stuff a few.

This. Taxiing, the supposed solution to mega-server problems, is actually a contributing cause, if not the primary cause, of those problems. This means the mega-server problem will never be fixed, because to do so would require removing the tools players use to play with friends. The kitten-storm which would ensue should ANet do so should not even be imagined.

I see. So Anet designed megaserver-tech and then introduced a tool for players that has the ability to break the megaserver design.
That’s still a flawed design – Just on a higher level :-)

slashlizardy.9167:

Sorry, but yep they were dead.

No. I’ve been regularly hopping from one HoT meta to another and there’s always people.

Trinnitty.8256:

I feel bad for anet they put all this design into HoT and then had to redo that design to balance it out (delaying upcoming content even more). Anet needs to focus on getting things done right the first time. Look at those mini adventures in HoT and how poorly that was done. Guild halls are almost pointless.

They always try to focus on getting it right the first time. Actually, that’s why it often takes so long for stuff to be released. The issue comes from what is “right” or not. Really, that is a subjective answer with two or more groups of people shouting different responses.

I actually liked the mini adventures and guild halls.

But to each his own.

For now, I’m fine with just waiting for the game to get good again. I’ll keep checking in on any progress and when it is once again fun and not just a HoT mess, I’ll be back.

slashlizardy.9167:

For now, I’m fine with just waiting for the game to get good again. I’ll keep checking in on any progress and when it is once again fun and not just a HoT mess, I’ll be back.

If the game gets good again, it’ll end up being worse for some people, including me. You may not believe it but a lot of people are happy with where the game is, with the exception of the content drought perhaps. But otherwise, there are tons of people doing events and getting around the new zones.

The game isn’t going to go backwards, nor should it. In a lot of ways it’s better than it used to be. I wouldn’t want to go backwards.

Rarely do I do this but i agree with Vayne. I bash GW2 hard, but that’s mostly due to said draught. I want the game to grow and deliver not to die down. Asides few misguided choices the content is epic, just that the epic is placed in a very small package. Looking forward to LS 3 to address that before next xpac hits.

HoT made the game better in “lots” of ways???? I would say that it made the game worse in more ways than it made the game better. I don’t like the direction Anet went with HoT. Gliding was nice……..

Dashingsteel.3410:

HoT made the game better in “lots” of ways???? I would say that it made the game worse in more ways than it made the game better. I don’t like the direction Anet went with HoT. Gliding was nice……..

You would say that, and you would be right…for you. Unfortunately you aren’t necessarily a majority and you can only speak for you, and people like you.

For example, some people seem to like raids. A lot of people seem to like gliding. A lot of people seem to like certain elite specs. A lot of people seem to be playing Revenants. A lot of people seem to be doing the HoT meta events, at least I often find myself on full maps.

Even WvW seems to be getting some much needed love after a fairly shakey start.

With the exception of a hard core few people who complain about it endlessly, most of the complaints faded after the April update.

I don´t know if HoT made GW2 better or not. Mobs were nerfed and not so strong to begin with, so this should not be an issue then. What was, is and probably will always be garbage are adventures and hero/mastery points hidden behind events, jumping/gliding escapades and walls.

My personal opinion is that it made the game much more demanding if you want to get anything substantial, basically throwing the approach of come as you are and go when you want over board in a quick toss. That certainly took away the originality from GW2 and made it into any other game, only being able to keep me here because of the lack of other, even remotely interesting games for me out there right now and my guild.

Torolan.5816:

I don´t know if HoT made GW2 better or not. Mobs were nerfed and not so strong to begin with, so this should not be an issue then. What was, is and probably will always be garbage are adventures and hero/mastery points hidden behind events, jumping/gliding escapades and walls.

My personal opinion is that it made the game much more demanding if you want to get anything substantial, basically throwing the approach of come as you are and go when you want over board in a quick toss. That certainly took away the originality from GW2 and made it into any other game, only being able to keep me here because of the lack of other, even remotely interesting games for me out there right now and my guild.

different combat style, but have you considered FFXIV? The game is very stable and has consistent patches ^^

Sins of HoT in my book are:

a) insufficient amount of content
b) price
c) sales policies (price for one)
d) elite specs breaking the balance (almost everyone needs elite spec to be meta)
f) not too well planned masteries (small pool of masteries that serve as long term goal, causing huge grind walls)
g) overbloat of boxes within bags that come from box that dropped from a bag.
h) story rushed and forcing fixed order of mastery unlocks to progress it smoothly

While the huge benefits of it are:
a) gliding – better then so badly requested mounts, 10/10 decision
b) the new vertical, jumping puzzle like approach to maps – yes, moar!
c) elite specs in some cases saved a profession (necro!!)
d) masteries – they are poorly executed, but idea itself is great and I enjoy it a lot
e) the new stat sets – especially commander’s trailblazer’s and viper’s are great
f) the harder, more brutal mobs, forcing you to think what you do
g) the new unique elite spec gear collections and backpack collections.
h) raiding

Overall it’s mixed bag but the content is great.

Drakortha.6974:

I played GW2 since release.. but after HoT left a really bad taste in my mouth I haven’t played for nearly a year.. and I really doubt I’d buy another expansion after regretting my previous purchase.

Kinda ruined it for me, but they can still make it right by releasing another expansion that is not pathetic like hot was to me :/

Go where you want to go, do what you want to do and be rewarded the same regardless of the path you take.

I miss that about the game.

HoT is another game entirely, not a Gw2 expansion. Its separated the community as well since not everyone has bought the expansion. Old guilds will always have some players that didn’t buy it and that isn’t a reason to not play with them. HoT does have issues and to some its justifiably, not worth it.

I really wish they would merge the mysteries into the old system. Without that connection, players might be hurting their own development by playing with their friends, since their time sinks are going into another mastery.

Personally, I’m one of 3 in a group of 31 that has the expansion and that whole “call out on map to get into a group” is terribly unreliable and usually doesn’t work.

I loved GW2 but this oversight on where players can play and with whom has made a mess large enough to knock the fun out of playing.

Nova.7261:

Go where you want to go, do what you want to do and be rewarded the same regardless of the path you take.

I miss that about the game.

HoT is another game entirely, not a Gw2 expansion. Its separated the community as well since not everyone has bought the expansion. Old guilds will always have some players that didn’t buy it and that isn’t a reason to not play with them. HoT does have issues and to some its justifiably, not worth it.

I really wish they would merge the mysteries into the old system. Without that connection, players might be hurting their own development by playing with their friends, since their time sinks are going into another mastery.

Personally, I’m one of 3 in a group of 31 that has the expansion and that whole “call out on map to get into a group” is terribly unreliable and usually doesn’t work.

I loved GW2 but this oversight on where players can play and with whom has made a mess large enough to knock the fun out of playing.

It’s not so bad anymore. Since HoT cost so much, I decided to go to the store and buy a bunch of single player games instead of HoT. Now I got back into single player games and have no need for this MMO crap.

Vayne.8563:

slashlizardy.9167:

For now, I’m fine with just waiting for the game to get good again. I’ll keep checking in on any progress and when it is once again fun and not just a HoT mess, I’ll be back.

If the game gets good again, it’ll end up being worse for some people, including me. You may not believe it but a lot of people are happy with where the game is, with the exception of the content drought perhaps. But otherwise, there are tons of people doing events and getting around the new zones.

The game isn’t going to go backwards, nor should it. In a lot of ways it’s better than it used to be. I wouldn’t want to go backwards.

This is a very valid point. I loved Guild Wars, I liked GW2, HoT was where I left.
Sure I would love GW2 turning in to the game I loved, but I know it won’t happen and while I hate that, it’s a problem for me and not for Anet, GW2 and all the peeps that like the new direction of GW2.

I do NOT wish for bad things to happen to GW2. I hope they find, stay with and support their specific niche.
I hope the current lovers get their fill. I am already in another game and not about to waste neither hope nor money on this franchise.

Good luck moving forward- I am sure the future holds an endless supply of nice glider skins ;-)

HoT by itself did not ruin GW2. It was more the almost year of lacking compelling content both preceding HoT, and the almost year of lacking compelling content after HoT’s release. Outside of HoT’s release, the mainstream PvE crowd has had nothing new to compell them to even log in in what is nearing two years now. The Shatterer update was disappointing, and the change to dungeon rewards that came in April shouldn’t have even been required to begin with. Yes, SAB returned, but it was old content - no new worlds or much of anything at all, really.

All in all, the General PvE player base is very right to feel ignored in favor of the content meant to appease the elite. The paltry Current Events releases, while they may be enough to quiet some of the discontent players, simply aren’t enough to bandage the absolutely desperate climate the game is in now.

Yes. Absolutely yes.

Halandir.3609:

Sartharina.3542:

slashlizardy.9167:

Vayne, I am glad that works for you. I hesitate to pop a commanders tag, then ask for help, as map chat is already toxic enough, that would just be asking for more vitriol. For now I will just wait for the game to get good again, then I will come back.

Okay… where the heck are you that you can find vitriol and toxic behavior in map chat? We’re all on the same servers here, aren’t we?

Great you never experienced that. I have not seen a lot of it in map chat but I HAVE seen more than enough in /g /p and pm’s.
kitten seemed to escalate HoT+2weeks: Not too bothered, I simply ignored the gnats. Too bad Anet decided that the game needed to devolve.

And I saw it at the Marionette fight long before HOT came out. I’ve seen it at Triple Trouble. I’ve seen it even at the Vine Wrath.

This is because any time something more challenging is added, someone is going to get mad when it fails and look for someone to blame.

Don’t you guys remember Marionette fight, the second platform where the creature had to turn and face away from you so you could hit it, and you had to keep moving and some ranger with a pet not on passive or some minion master would be out there and people would lose their minds.

I met one of my guildies defending someone in that sort of situation who the map was attacking.

This isn’t a HOT problem ,this is a challenging content problem. Some people don’t like to waste their time.

It’s been in the game since Living Story Season 1 and stuff started to get more challenging.

People trot it out with HOT because HoT is more challenging.

Of course, this happened with challenging content in Guild Wars 1 as well.

You can’t change human nature.

The only way to make it so that it wasn’t like this is to make it so that there’s no challenge at all and we never lose and we always get max loot.

And frankly I don’t think that would be good for the game.

HoT does offer a different experience than the core game. That’s WHY it’s an expansion. It literally expands the game. Expansion doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing over and over again. That’s what some people seem to have forgotten.

If you expand you’re understanding of something, you’re understanding things you didn’t understand before. If you expand what your restaurant servers you’re adding new things that weren’t there before.

Guild Wars 2 has woefully undelivered on challenging content, particularly challenging open world content. Triple Threat was something that most people have never done but some people really enjoy. There is a market for harder content.

For some of us, HoT has found the sweet spot. And yes, some people will react in annoy ways because some people see failing events as a waste of time.

HoT definitely ruined the game for me. My main issue isn’t the maps (which I actually find rather fun) nor the underwhelming and lackluster story. Despite being primarily a WvW/PvP player I didn’t even mind the Deserted Borderlands that much.

What puts me off is the destruction of the combat system. In my opinion the combat system has always been the game’s major selling point. Yet the June 23rd 2015 specialisation patch and later HoT have hurt it greatly. In June 2015 too many traits were made baseline. Well established play styles were scrapped entirely (RIP condi Grenades). The power creep was immense. On top of the ill balanced June patch Arena Net dropped HoT. The new elite specialisations introduced even more power creep. For me, the combat got even less enjoyable. Elite specialisations are too forgiving. They bring too much offence and defence, there’s no weaknesses anymore. Cool downs are too low across the board. Rotations (aka spamming) are more important than patience and good skill use. For me, the characters with weaknesses we once had were far more interesting to play and fight than the super soldiers we have now. Sadly future elite specialisations will not fix that problem. They will most likely set the bar even higher and exacerbate the problem.

I don’t think HoT ruined GW2. It is different because HoT maps are more replayable compared to the maps in the base game. This means it is a different gaming experience which not all player can enjoy. Another problem is the grind. You have to do the same things again and again. To much is based on gathering materials by harvesting instead of really playing content.

Im quite new at this game (Bought it few days ago), so I might not be experienced enough to say a lot about HoT, but to me, HoT is pretty fun and engaging at the moment. I like the land layout I like the story (a bit short thought) and masteries are fun. I love the challenge that mobs provide and the maze-like maps are also quite cool as they make me feel like I’m actually exploring dangerous places and not having someone hold me by my hand showing me around. Events are pretty interesting as well. Gliding is super awesome, although until I get that fifth gliding mastery, I will be a bit angry because that endurance thing on it is super annoying.

The things I don’t like about HoT is that there seem to be no quests in those zones like there are in the rest of the world and that I can’t seem to get mastery XP from anything but the events and mini-games, is kind of a bummer. Luckily, I heard that they must only be grinded once, so it’s not that big of a deal. Also, I personally think that because of lack of leveling options, the amount of XP needed to get all masteries is a bit too high. I wouldn’t mind the grind if there were more options on how to obtain mastery XP, but with only having one way to get them, I can’t say it’s much fun. Grind is only good for me if there are multiple options of doing it.

So in general HoT is pretty fun and interesting to play for me, but it does have a few flaws, which I hope will be absent in the next expansion. I’m generally satisfied with what I’ve bought, and even if it was a bit excessively expensive.

P.S Sry if this is a wrong place to say this, this is my first post.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

I feel that I’ve read many posts over many threads made to the effect of ‘the HoT maps are dead, so that’s evidence that it’s a failure.’ Enough times that I’ve been pondering this a little (I’m open to the possibility I’m mistaken about the frequency I’ve read such posts). But, is it possible that something else is going on?

The HoT maps have more meta events requiring a larger player count to participate. So, it’d make sense then that the player base needs to be more proactive about getting on populated maps… Players now use squads and taxis a lot more in HoT maps than in core Tyria maps to help make sure the meta events succeed.

So, if someone just solo ports in to a HoT map, then it’s also more likely they’ll jump into an empty map because that’s how the megaservers were set up to do in reaction to full(er) maps. This then might create a false perception that HoT maps are empty, when they’re actually just more consolidated due to player proactivity.

Thoughts? (again, I’m open to the idea that such claims aren’t as frequent as I currently think they are).

~EW

I think this is pretty much right on target.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t help much. Those people who solo port are playing by themselves. If you are right (and I think you are), then solo players are being punished for playing the game the way it was designed: play it your way. Automatic functionality shouldn’t do that.

It would be easy to fix, but I can hear the screams in advance: all ports go to the fullest maps first. Port starts; snapshot of all maps is taken, map with the smallest number of available slots is chosen.

Trinnitty.8256:

I feel bad for anet they put all this design into HoT and then had to redo that design to balance it out (delaying upcoming content even more). Anet needs to focus on getting things done right the first time. Look at those mini adventures in HoT and how poorly that was done. Guild halls are almost pointless.

You are correct. Completely correct.

Unfortunately, ANet doesn’t bother asking their player base honestly what they want. They decide what they want to give us, and then test the waters, with a tiny subset of what they’re thinking, to see who screams.

Worse, the “waters” they test against are almost universally hardcore players (Reddit users and to a lesser degree, forum participants). So, a tiny percentage of extremely vocal players get their way. Why are they surprised when it fails miserably?

If they really want to do it right, they need to survey a statistically-valid randomly-chosen portion of their entire player base. They need the survey to include EVERYTHING they are thinking about doing.

NOTE: The survey could be skewed towards people who spend more money on the game. It doesn’t have to be a completely random list.

If they had done that, they would have learned a year before HoT released how badly their designs were going to be welcomed. Maybe even longer. Certainly in time to avoid publishing the worst of the features.

Daddicus.6128:

Trinnitty.8256:

I feel bad for anet they put all this design into HoT and then had to redo that design to balance it out (delaying upcoming content even more). Anet needs to focus on getting things done right the first time. Look at those mini adventures in HoT and how poorly that was done. Guild halls are almost pointless.

You are correct. Completely correct.

Unfortunately, ANet doesn’t bother asking their player base honestly what they want. They decide what they want to give us, and then test the waters, with a tiny subset of what they’re thinking, to see who screams.

Worse, the “waters” they test against are almost universally hardcore players (Reddit users and to a lesser degree, forum participants). So, a tiny percentage of extremely vocal players get their way. Why are they surprised when it fails miserably?

If they really want to do it right, they need to survey a statistically-valid randomly-chosen portion of their entire player base. They need the survey to include EVERYTHING they are thinking about doing.

NOTE: The survey could be skewed towards people who spend more money on the game. It doesn’t have to be a completely random list.

If they had done that, they would have learned a year before HoT released how badly their designs were going to be welcomed. Maybe even longer. Certainly in time to avoid publishing the worst of the features.

You keep saying Anet doesn’t ask players what they want. Anet has some idea of what some players want. That’s what forums do. Anet does have people that read forums.

The problem is you still insist your demographic is some sort of majority and I not only believe it’s not a majority, I believe it’s a very small but extremely loud minority.

Saying Anet doesn’t ask us what we want is silly because we know for a fact that a lot of the stuff HOT gave us, some people asked for.

Vayne.8563:

Daddicus.6128:

Trinnitty.8256:

I feel bad for anet they put all this design into HoT and then had to redo that design to balance it out (delaying upcoming content even more). Anet needs to focus on getting things done right the first time. Look at those mini adventures in HoT and how poorly that was done. Guild halls are almost pointless.

You are correct. Completely correct.

Unfortunately, ANet doesn’t bother asking their player base honestly what they want. They decide what they want to give us, and then test the waters, with a tiny subset of what they’re thinking, to see who screams.

Worse, the “waters” they test against are almost universally hardcore players (Reddit users and to a lesser degree, forum participants). So, a tiny percentage of extremely vocal players get their way. Why are they surprised when it fails miserably?

If they really want to do it right, they need to survey a statistically-valid randomly-chosen portion of their entire player base. They need the survey to include EVERYTHING they are thinking about doing.

NOTE: The survey could be skewed towards people who spend more money on the game. It doesn’t have to be a completely random list.

If they had done that, they would have learned a year before HoT released how badly their designs were going to be welcomed. Maybe even longer. Certainly in time to avoid publishing the worst of the features.

You keep saying Anet doesn’t ask players what they want. Anet has some idea of what some players want. That’s what forums do. Anet does have people that read forums.

The problem is you still insist your demographic is some sort of majority and I not only believe it’s not a majority, I believe it’s a very small but extremely loud minority.

Saying Anet doesn’t ask us what we want is silly because we know for a fact that a lot of the stuff HOT gave us, some people asked for.

The recent in game population and the fact this this thread sat at the top of the forum for 4 hours without moving leads me to believe maybe people who werent happy arent just a tiny minority, but theyve already left.

Pezz.4758:

Vayne.8563:

Daddicus.6128:

Trinnitty.8256:

I feel bad for anet they put all this design into HoT and then had to redo that design to balance it out (delaying upcoming content even more). Anet needs to focus on getting things done right the first time. Look at those mini adventures in HoT and how poorly that was done. Guild halls are almost pointless.

You are correct. Completely correct.

Unfortunately, ANet doesn’t bother asking their player base honestly what they want. They decide what they want to give us, and then test the waters, with a tiny subset of what they’re thinking, to see who screams.

Worse, the “waters” they test against are almost universally hardcore players (Reddit users and to a lesser degree, forum participants). So, a tiny percentage of extremely vocal players get their way. Why are they surprised when it fails miserably?

If they really want to do it right, they need to survey a statistically-valid randomly-chosen portion of their entire player base. They need the survey to include EVERYTHING they are thinking about doing.

NOTE: The survey could be skewed towards people who spend more money on the game. It doesn’t have to be a completely random list.

If they had done that, they would have learned a year before HoT released how badly their designs were going to be welcomed. Maybe even longer. Certainly in time to avoid publishing the worst of the features.

You keep saying Anet doesn’t ask players what they want. Anet has some idea of what some players want. That’s what forums do. Anet does have people that read forums.

The problem is you still insist your demographic is some sort of majority and I not only believe it’s not a majority, I believe it’s a very small but extremely loud minority.

Saying Anet doesn’t ask us what we want is silly because we know for a fact that a lot of the stuff HOT gave us, some people asked for.

The recent in game population and the fact this this thread sat at the top of the forum for 4 hours without moving leads me to believe maybe people who werent happy arent just a tiny minority, but theyve already left.

First of all, you have no idea of the recent game population. No clue at all. Unless you can give me numbers from somewhere reliable, I’ll say that I don’t really see any difference in the population over time.

However, more to the point, none of that is relevant because people leave for DIFFERENT reasons. If 50% of the population left the game, but 10% left because it was too hard and confusing, which is Daddicus’s agenda, then you might have something. But some left because of WvW, and some left when the dungeon nerf happened and didn’t come back and some left because of the guild hall issues, and some left because they felt like they had to grind and some left because the game was too hard, and some left because it’s summer and they play less and they intend to come back.

Saying the game’s population is lower means zero if A) you can’t prove it and the people complaining are complaining about completely different things.

That could very well make your particular population a minority. It doesn’t mean that most people feel the way you do.

Every summer in the US the population dips. New games come out and people play them. Then the living story comes out and tons of people pop back in to play it.

It’s all meaningless unless you have some actual numbers to back up what you’re saying.

are you for real, WvW, dungeons, difficulty, confusing maps, guild hall issues ARE NOT different things, they are all HoT complaints!

Pezz.4758:

are you for real, WvW, dungeons, difficulty, confusing maps, guild hall issues ARE NOT different things, they are all HoT complaints!

Yes but most of the people complaining about how hard it is, are NOT complaining about the dungeon nerf. Most of the people who stay in WvW all the time aren’t complaining about raids being hard.

In fact the WvW popluation has rebounded considerably since HoT came out. People didn’t like the new borderlands. Many people do like the changes that have been made.

But to say that one guy who finds the game to hard and has complained about that one thing incessantly (ie the guy I was responding to) doesn’t mean his demographic, ie those who find HoT PVE too hard are the majority.

It doesn’t matter if a majority of people don’t like HoT (a fact for which you have zero evidence in the first place) if they all don’t like HOT for different reasons.

The poster I responded to says Anet doesn’t listen to what players want. Well there were plenty of players asking for more difficult content. What they didn’t ask for is what HE wanted, which unfortunately is just one demographic.

It’s not like this playerbase speaks with one voice and anyone who says they do is probably more part of the problem than the solution. Because this is a deeply divided player base with people who want very different things.

Pezz.4758:

are you for real, WvW, dungeons, difficulty, confusing maps, guild hall issues ARE NOT different things, they are all HoT complaints!

But different HoT complaints.

Sartharina.3542:

Pezz.4758:

are you for real, WvW, dungeons, difficulty, confusing maps, guild hall issues ARE NOT different things, they are all HoT complaints!

But different HoT complaints.

Yes, different hot complaints. TO make it easier to understand you might solve the guild issues for small guilds and the people who want hot to be made easier wouldn’t necessarily be appeased. You could then make hot easier and kitten off the same people you helped by making the guild halls more accessible, because they wanted more challenging content.

This is a deeply divided community. HOT was never going to please everyone, but I do believe it pleased more people than the forums would suggest.

im sitting here thinking how to respond and realize i just dont care anymore. watever combination of things HoT brought i didnt like, it made it worse than hating it.
hate requires passion
i just honestly dont care, im sorry i posted, i keep checking in here to see if things are going to change but all i read is LS later, only addition is raids, legendaries canceled

maybe its time i stop checkin in at all

sorry for posting, take care

Pezz.4758:

im sitting here thinking how to respond and realize i just dont care anymore. watever combination of things HoT brought i didnt like, it made it worse than hating it.
hate requires passion
i just honestly dont care, im sorry i posted, i keep checking in here to see if things are going to change but all i read is LS later, only addition is raids, legendaries canceled

maybe its time i stop checkin in at all

sorry for posting, take care

It’s not wrong to dislike something but defending someone else disliking it for a very specific reason is quite different. You aren’t always on the same side as someone just because something brings up the same emotion in you.

HoT made the game better for a lot of people, possibly more people than it made it worse for. People don’t seem to acknowledge this even though almost 50% of the posts say that. And more people will always tend to complain than compliment.

There are a lot of threads started by people who are negative on the game, but if you count the number of posts that say yea or nay it’s not that clear a majority.

I have a couple of people in my guild who don’t like HoT but they’re a very small minority when compared to the people who like it. That’s not to say each person who likes HOT likes everything about HoT.

The problem here is that knowing what the problems are that most people have is definitely more important than just knowing some people have nameless problems.

Vayne.8563:

Pezz.4758:

im sitting here thinking how to respond and realize i just dont care anymore. watever combination of things HoT brought i didnt like, it made it worse than hating it.
hate requires passion
i just honestly dont care, im sorry i posted, i keep checking in here to see if things are going to change but all i read is LS later, only addition is raids, legendaries canceled

maybe its time i stop checkin in at all

sorry for posting, take care

It’s not wrong to dislike something but defending someone else disliking it for a very specific reason is quite different. You aren’t always on the same side as someone just because something brings up the same emotion in you.

HoT made the game better for a lot of people, possibly more people than it made it worse for. People don’t seem to acknowledge this even though almost 50% of the posts say that. And more people will always tend to complain than compliment.

There are a lot of threads started by people who are negative on the game, but if you count the number of posts that say yea or nay it’s not that clear a majority.

I have a couple of people in my guild who don’t like HoT but they’re a very small minority when compared to the people who like it. That’s not to say each person who likes HOT likes everything about HoT.

The problem here is that knowing what the problems are that most people have is definitely more important than just knowing some people have nameless problems.

well to explain my feelings

i started GW when WoD was launched for wow, it was bad, i needed the anti wow

that was GW2, easy pace, solo friendly, no raids, no trinity, heck you could pick flowers to max level.

than hot dropped and i wondered what happened, we got raids, basically rep grinds in masteries, power creep in elite specs, raid only gear upgrades in legendary armour

and then Legion info starts dropping, relevenent areas because of level scaling, world quests brings people together, alternate gear paths to raids.

and im just confused, the game i left wow for became more wow like as wow came more gw2 like

and i guess it just bred apathy, so isntead of hopping around mmos im kickin it with Geralt in the witcher.

Pezz.4758:

Vayne.8563:

Pezz.4758:

im sitting here thinking how to respond and realize i just dont care anymore. watever combination of things HoT brought i didnt like, it made it worse than hating it.
hate requires passion
i just honestly dont care, im sorry i posted, i keep checking in here to see if things are going to change but all i read is LS later, only addition is raids, legendaries canceled

maybe its time i stop checkin in at all

sorry for posting, take care

It’s not wrong to dislike something but defending someone else disliking it for a very specific reason is quite different. You aren’t always on the same side as someone just because something brings up the same emotion in you.

HoT made the game better for a lot of people, possibly more people than it made it worse for. People don’t seem to acknowledge this even though almost 50% of the posts say that. And more people will always tend to complain than compliment.

There are a lot of threads started by people who are negative on the game, but if you count the number of posts that say yea or nay it’s not that clear a majority.

I have a couple of people in my guild who don’t like HoT but they’re a very small minority when compared to the people who like it. That’s not to say each person who likes HOT likes everything about HoT.

The problem here is that knowing what the problems are that most people have is definitely more important than just knowing some people have nameless problems.

well to explain my feelings

i started GW when WoD was launched for wow, it was bad, i needed the anti wow

that was GW2, easy pace, solo friendly, no raids, no trinity, heck you could pick flowers to max level.

than hot dropped and i wondered what happened, we got raids, basically rep grinds in masteries, power creep in elite specs, raid only gear upgrades in legendary armour

and then Legion info starts dropping, relevenent areas because of level scaling, world quests brings people together, alternate gear paths to raids.

and im just confused, the game i left wow for became more wow like as wow came more gw2 like

and i guess it just bred apathy, so isntead of hopping around mmos im kickin it with Geralt in the witcher.

You’re making is so much worse than it is, because you were so sensitive to certain things. We got raids, but I don’t have to raid. And I don’t raid. I can get max gear without ever raiding so why is raiding a problem.

We don’t have a trinity. That is to say, except in raids. No trinity in dungeons. No trinity in Fracatals. There’s a single raid, broken into three wings, delivered over 9 months. I’m not really seeing that as an issue…except for your particular sensitivity to it.

The rep grind you talk about, isn’t nearly as much grind as you think it is. To get the stuff you need to play, it’s very very fast. I mean like very fast.

If you were to play casually and take your time you’d have had it months ago, without even doing anything.

I can show you how to play HoT without grinding. I’d be happy to. You built this up in your head, reinforced by comments on the forums, when in reality it’s not nearly as bad as people are saying it is, particularly after the April patch.

I still play Guild Wars 2 in the most relaxed fashion. In fact, low level fractals are easier now, not harder and I’m sure more people do them.

i can appreciate your offer but im not looking to learn how to have fun

core gw2 was fun for me, hot isnt
taking lessons isnt going to change that, or maybe it will but

its 2016, theres a new game out every hour. i dont need lessons for them.
and youre right no one knows the numbers but anet, i just hope they did their research

Pezz.4758:

i can appreciate your offer but im not looking to learn how to have fun

core gw2 was fun for me, hot isnt
taking lessons isnt going to change that, or maybe it will but

its 2016, theres a new game out every hour. i dont need lessons for them.
and youre right no one knows the numbers but anet, i just hope they did their research

Your loss then. HoT has made this game better in many ways.

You can’t see that and that’s fine. But it’s a lot better than it was for me before HoT came out.

Vayne.8563:

Pezz.4758:

i can appreciate your offer but im not looking to learn how to have fun

core gw2 was fun for me, hot isnt
taking lessons isnt going to change that, or maybe it will but

its 2016, theres a new game out every hour. i dont need lessons for them.
and youre right no one knows the numbers but anet, i just hope they did their research

Your loss then. HoT has made this game better in many ways.

You can’t see that and that’s fine. But it’s a lot better than it was for me before HoT came out.

thats just it though its not my loss
if im having fun somewhere else instead of banging my head on a board
i win
its a non essential entertainment product

its not your loss either if i walk away, as long as your guild is active enough to fill groups you lose nothing

Anet however, as a business, loses money. which is why i said i hope they know their demographic. a switch that huge can be risky, and id hate to see another beloved IP squandered on a risky business decisions

Vayne.8563:

Did I tell you to leave, or did I tell you let me show you how good it is?

There are always people going to leave, and I’m not usually one of the people telling people TO leave. However, if a person is gone, having them come talk about a game they’re not even playing and may not even know anymore is not necessarily helpful either.

There’s no evidence yet that these changes have hurt Anet. None at all. You being a customer for HoT doesn’t break this game one way or another. Anet will survive without you. But I didn’t tell you to leave. I offered to show you around and give you a tour. If that’s telling you to leave, then I guess we’re not speaking the same language.

You say you’ve lost nothing by not learning how to play a game you enjoyed for three years and invested time and money into. It doesn’t sound that way from where I’m sitting. I’ll allow the rest of the forums to make up their mind about that one way or another.

If everyone was like you Vayne, then companies will have a free pass to roll their players in the dirt.
Without any critique, the next GW2 expansion can’t be better. Perhaps the next expansion pack
- small guilds will have their courner
- end game won’t have to be just raids
- zones won’t have to be on very strict timers
- there will be more balance between horizontal and vertical zones
- there will be more content for the price
- the developers won’t go back on their promises (the legendary fiasco)
- content won’t have to be easy versus hard
without critique, without people being unhappy or leaving, none of this will happen. Everyone knows that there are some good points to HoT, but if there’s no backlash, there’s no improving in the future.

Mirta.5029:

Without any critique, the next GW2 expansion can’t be better. Perhaps the next expansion pack
- small guilds will have their courner
- end game won’t have to be just raids
- zones won’t have to be on very strict timers
- there will be more balance between horizontal and vertical zones
- there will be more content for the price
- the developers won’t go back on their promises (the legendary fiasco)
- content won’t have to be easy versus hard
without critique, without people being unhappy or leaving, none of this will happen. Everyone knows that there are some good points to HoT, but if there’s no backlash, there’s no improving in the future.

You’re compeltely missing Vayne’s point. What you see as an improvement, it’s actually only an improvement for YOU and might be preceived as negative by other players.

For example, you talk about more balance between vertical and horizontal zones.
For me, TD and, to a lesser extent, VB have been, by far, the most fun to explore areas in the game. On the other hand, I find AB and DS to be too flat and offer very little regarding exploration.

You also talk about end game not being only about raids and content not having to be easy versus hard. This is something where any alternative you could figure out is going to get critiques from some part of the community. There’s no way you can satisfy everyone.

Of course, you have to deliver your own feedback, tell devs which things you liked and which you didn’t so the next xpac may be better for YOU. Just have clear that very few things are universal improvements.

Vargamonth.2047:

Mirta.5029:

Without any critique, the next GW2 expansion can’t be better. Perhaps the next expansion pack
- small guilds will have their courner
- end game won’t have to be just raids
- zones won’t have to be on very strict timers
- there will be more balance between horizontal and vertical zones
- there will be more content for the price
- the developers won’t go back on their promises (the legendary fiasco)
- content won’t have to be easy versus hard
without critique, without people being unhappy or leaving, none of this will happen. Everyone knows that there are some good points to HoT, but if there’s no backlash, there’s no improving in the future.

You’re compeltely missing Vayne’s point. What you see as an improvement, it’s actually only an improvement for YOU and might be preceived as negative by other players.

For example, you talk about more balance between vertical and horizontal zones.
For me, TD and, to a lesser extent, VB have been, by far, the most fun to explore areas in the game. On the other hand, I find AB and DS to be too flat and offer very little regarding exploration.

You also talk about end game not being only about raids and content not having to be easy versus hard. This is something where any alternative you could figure out is going to get critiques from some part of the community. There’s no way you can satisfy everyone.

Of course, you have to deliver your own feedback, tell devs which things you liked and which you didn’t so the next xpac may be better for YOU. Just have clear that very few things are universal improvements.

really? So the end game can’t be new dungeons AND new raids? New dungeons giving better looking exotic gear and raids continuing with Ascended? In a game all about horizontal progression this would probably make more people happy.

Big guilds can keep their guild halls, but no reason why small guilds couldn’t get less expensive huts for example.

A more mixture of zones with there being bigger reward in the harder ones, but easier ones existing for casual players, you sure that is impossible?

HoT completely alienated whole lot of players. Most MMOs don’t do this. They find balance instead. There’s not going to be balance without any outrage.

What you’re saying is that you don’t want anyone that left to get ANYTHING. Which is alienating a huge part of the player base. I’m saying that multiple types of content can coexist side by side.