Guild Wars 2

spoj.9672:

Confusion meta in HoT. :>

Probably still berserker though.

Arenanet has to weave in more husk-like mobs.

Joey.2769:

Is HoT going with condi stacks higher than 25? Would that help in builds/group comps to maybe maximize bleeds between a few team members instead of everyone go zerk?

They tested it during the beta of HoT. But it was only stackable condi that didn’t have a cap (or at least we could get it to 99). If they put that in the real expansion, of course it will help condition build, especially in Open world, but it’s far from enough to really make it worth it over power build.

- Burning, Poison, etc would still be capped with the duration.
- The strength of power build is damage modifier. Wihtout them, both condi and power build are similar in dps (like in PvP), but when you stack all of them power have a lot more dps than condition (like in PvE).

Removing the cap of 25 is only fixing a tiny part of the issue. It won’t be enough to make condition on part with power build.

Valento.9852:

I find it funny how many meta-mentality players think zerker stacking is the ultimate playstyle for dungeons, and other equipments are just a ladder until you get “pro”. This is completely wrong, how come you trash all other gear in a game that has no treadmill? Cleric should have its place, it should be wrong to have a full zerker party. It simply trashes all itemization, which is a core fundamental part of RPGs.

clerics gear does have its place.

Why should it be wrong to have a full berserker party?

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Valento.9852:

I find it funny how many meta-mentality players think zerker stacking is the ultimate playstyle for dungeons, and other equipments are just a ladder until you get “pro”. This is completely wrong, how come you trash all other gear in a game that has no treadmill? Cleric should have its place, it should be wrong to have a full zerker party. It simply trashes all itemization, which is a core fundamental part of RPGs.

clerics gear does have its place.

Why should it be wrong to have a full berserker party?

^ Exactly

optimal (“zerker”) =/= viable (EVERYTHING else)

Why is this so hard of a concept to grasp?

Skady has shown clerics to be quite viable, made for nice easier/smoother fractal runs. Their group 3 man’s 50s with relative ease. Take some very high level players and they’ll do 3X zerk faster, but I know I’d probably be unable to match the times their group puts up because I make mistakes >.<

You’d be surprised how often I have to run clerics guard in fractals.
Especially with eles who dont stop throwing fireballs at archdiviner when he reflects Q.Q

They need to make Condition Duration a gear stat. They need to allow conditions to have durations over 100%.

A warrior with Condition Damage/duration/precision gear set and buffs from runes/sigils/food to get to about 200% bleed duration along with condition cap removal would enable a warrior to get about 40 stacks of bleeds by himself. This would take about 25 seconds of time to ramp up to that, but once it did it would blow Zerker dps out of the water.

NikeEU.7690:

They need to make Condition Duration a gear stat. They need to allow conditions to have durations over 100%.

A warrior with Condition Damage/duration/precision gear set and buffs from runes/sigils/food to get to about 200% bleed duration along with condition cap removal would enable a warrior to get about 40 stacks of bleeds by himself. This would take about 25 seconds of time to ramp up to that, but once it did it would blow Zerker dps out of the water.

/em looks over at “givers” gear stat and contemplates the +6% on a full set of “condi duration” gear.

If it was more like 20% from weapons, and another (lets say) 30% from armor, 20% bleed specific sigil, 50% bleed trait, 50% from food and 30% from trait native stats, and 50% from runes you could conceivably hit well over 200% bleed duration on warrior. If you could actually get bleeds to last that long and remove the 25 cap, it would go a long way towards solving the issue.

But it won’t happen because the WvW QQ over engineer and necromancers and PU mesmers doing that would be heard across the universe.

Condition duration is capped at 100%. A few traits bypass this because of base number increases etc. I doubt they will increase the cap.

Wouldn’t a glass condi set with Condi-duration kinda screw some WvW builds anyways? From what I gather the condi sets need the toughness and vitality from stuff like Dire sets to stay alive if there was a glass condi-set they’d be forced to divide their stats between Dire and the glass set meaning they might not get the desired stat spread.

I still see them complaining though.

Windsagio.1340:

People have actually suggested WoW ing it up and removing stats from gear.

Does wow have statless gear? Because I thought removing stats from gear would be going back to gw1 rather than wow because people that suggested it still want an active game, unlike trinity lovers here.

Not sure on WoW, but the RPGs I’ve played basically have 3 types of gear, tank, healer, and dps (one used 4 as it had a 4th core role type “controller”). Within these they had slight stat variations to “customize” but the overall impact was no bigger than the difference between assassin/zerk.

So this itemization people go on about… I don’t really see where it’s coming from considering these other games even went as far as to lock certain stat combinations to those specific roles, meaning only professions that could play that role were allowed to use it. Not really the diversity people go on about, and the idea of that transitioning here would be silly. Lock clerics to guard/ele/Ranger maybe, and then Ferocity gear is only for Ele/Thief/war. While Toughness gear is only usable by the rest. /shrug, don’t see how it’s really a valid comparison when the diversity in these other games is set up solely by the trinity system and when you look at individual areas of it the diversity is almost non existent, surely not more than balancing between assassin/zerk.

Jerus.4350:

Not sure on WoW, but the RPGs I’ve played basically have 3 types of gear, tank, healer, and dps (one used 4 as it had a 4th core role type “controller”). Within these they had slight stat variations to “customize” but the overall impact was no bigger than the difference between assassin/zerk.

So this itemization people go on about… I don’t really see where it’s coming from considering these other games even went as far as to lock certain stat combinations to those specific roles, meaning only professions that could play that role were allowed to use it. Not really the diversity people go on about, and the idea of that transitioning here would be silly. Lock clerics to guard/ele/Ranger maybe, and then Ferocity gear is only for Ele/Thief/war. While Toughness gear is only usable by the rest. /shrug, don’t see how it’s really a valid comparison when the diversity in these other games is set up solely by the trinity system and when you look at individual areas of it the diversity is almost non existent, surely not more than balancing between assassin/zerk.

And in those games the “Tank” and the “Healer” had to go get a second set of gear to do regular PVE properly, otherwise it was tedious and boring. In lots (if not all) pure trinity games the tankiest class and the best healing class also get DPS specs for a reason, to do regular questing. Pure Tank and Healer specs and gear is used in group content, dungeons and raids.

All while DPS specs need one spec and one gear type. So much for gear diversity.

Condis need new sets of gear that can be their ‘zerker’ equiv, with condi duration as a stat and ability to stack far over 100%. They need higher stack limits or personal stacks. Maybe make the rules of this work differently in dungeons/open/wvw/spvp to balance it properly or carry the load.

Maybe defensive stats should be separate from offensive stats for some pieces of gear. Like.. if some gem you slot on gear was a choice of tons of toughness, vitality, or healing power only you could more easily make that choice for different situations. If you nerf power thats not going to somehow make healing power better or any more desirable.

I dont know how they’d do this, but I think they should embrace the dps-meta. Make more stats that are offensive based. I dont know what those kind of stats would actually do but.. it would definitely mix things up.

The last, and easily most important thing is AI. I mean.. its not an easy thing to just ‘make better’ but… it needs it. They have a great combat system but its so easy to fool the enemy.

rotten.9753:

Windsagio.1340:

People have actually suggested WoW ing it up and removing stats from gear.

Does wow have statless gear? Because I thought removing stats from gear would be going back to gw1 rather than wow because people that suggested it still want an active game, unlike trinity lovers here.

Um, GW1 had a trinity system so pls take your fashionable wow bashing somewhere else.

Zenith.7301:

Um, GW1 had a trinity system so pls take your fashionable wow bashing somewhere else.

Sure, it had a trinity system but not the trinity system.

Yeah the most important role was “corners” which were played by terrain. Corner Blocking was the best tank ever.

rotten.9753:

Windsagio.1340:

People have actually suggested WoW ing it up and removing stats from gear.

Does wow have statless gear? Because I thought removing stats from gear would be going back to gw1 rather than wow because people that suggested it still want an active game, unlike trinity lovers here.

The intended comparison is to their simplification of the talent trees (Is that what they call them? It’s been a while) to a set choice per tree as the ‘optimal’ one — ie the removal of the choice.

Windsagio.1340:

The intended comparison is to their simplification of the talent trees (Is that what they call them? It’s been a while) to a set choice per tree as the ‘optimal’ one — ie the removal of the choice.

Then you got it wrong, I’ve suggested removing stats few times already and I had gw1 in mind where you were able to swap your builds in seconds. Going with those rash ideas of reinforcing gear choice will lead to nothing but to reduction of a player’s choice.

rotten.9753:

Windsagio.1340:

The intended comparison is to their simplification of the talent trees (Is that what they call them? It’s been a while) to a set choice per tree as the ‘optimal’ one — ie the removal of the choice.

Then you got it wrong, I’ve suggested removing stats few times already and I had gw1 in mind where you were able to swap your builds in seconds. Going with those rash ideas of reinforcing gear choice will lead to nothing but to reduction of a player’s choice.

“Reducing choices is increasing choices!”

all kidding aside, gear is a meaningful way to accent your intended play style, and to allow a number of things that would be impossible with just traits.

It’s true that the balance is out of whack (although the meaningfulness of the imbalance is wildly exaggerated), but the poor balance doesn’t justify removing the choice.

~~~

The ‘reinforcing gear choice’ is the wrong way to look at it though, it’s ‘making risk/reward meaningful’. Right now, past a basic skill level, risk is not very meaningful in most of the content, and this is too bad.

Wouldn’t it be great if zerk had great payoff but took great skill, as opposed to ‘it has great payoff as long as you’re not absolutely terrible’?

Windsagio.1340:

rotten.9753:

Windsagio.1340:

The intended comparison is to their simplification of the talent trees (Is that what they call them? It’s been a while) to a set choice per tree as the ‘optimal’ one — ie the removal of the choice.

Then you got it wrong, I’ve suggested removing stats few times already and I had gw1 in mind where you were able to swap your builds in seconds. Going with those rash ideas of reinforcing gear choice will lead to nothing but to reduction of a player’s choice.

“Reducing choices is increasing choices!”

all kidding aside, gear is a meaningful way to accent your intended play style, and to allow a number of things that would be impossible with just traits.

It’s true that the balance is out of whack (although the meaningfulness of the imbalance is wildly exaggerated), but the poor balance doesn’t justify removing the choice.

~~~

The ‘reinforcing gear choice’ is the wrong way to look at it though, it’s ‘making risk/reward meaningful’. Right now, past a basic skill level, risk is not very meaningful in most of the content, and this is too bad.

Wouldn’t it be great if zerk had great payoff but took great skill, as opposed to ‘it has great payoff as long as you’re not absolutely terrible’?

Right now you can use most of your skills and traits without any kind of gear investment, which means there is a huge amount of choice in the game. If certain skills are affected by certain stats then those skills will be used by those that already have the important stats, meaning far less choice and variety for players.

It’s not secret that there is a lack of variety in gear stat choice in the game. But that’s not true in build variety, weapon, utility and trait variety isn’t terrible, in fact the “good” players are already changing their builds multiple times during a single dungeon run. Using different weapons, traits and utilities to be more efficient on different types of content.

It’s highly unlikely and it will harm the game instead of helping it, if they make stats affect skills, like Vitality giving more endurance or Toughness making WoR last longer or anything like that. Limiting BUILD choice isn’t what we need now.

For everyone who is suggesting to tweak how stats affect skills, take a look at PVP. There are more valuable builds in PVP, there are “bunkers” and control / support is even higher valued than in PVE. The answer to making more builds viable is in changing the actual encounters to feel more like PVP encounters.

There is NO need to make defensive stats affect skills.

Windsagio.1340:

“Reducing choices is increasing choices!”

all kidding aside, gear is a meaningful way to accent your intended play style, and to allow a number of things that would be impossible with just traits.

It’s true that the balance is out of whack (although the meaningfulness of the imbalance is wildly exaggerated), but the poor balance doesn’t justify removing the choice.

~~~

The ‘reinforcing gear choice’ is the wrong way to look at it though, it’s ‘making risk/reward meaningful’. Right now, past a basic skill level, risk is not very meaningful in most of the content, and this is too bad.

Wouldn’t it be great if zerk had great payoff but took great skill, as opposed to ‘it has great payoff as long as you’re not absolutely terrible’?

I shouldn’t have done any mental leaps. What was my point is that once you make a gear much more meaningful then once you pick it, you’re gonna be stuck with it and good luck swapping builds when your team needs a different one.

And no, gear isn’t meaningful at all. It’s a set of statistics that don’t change how you play. It’s really shouldn’t be hard to understand but apparently it is.

If you take a look at how “hard” it is to play defensively, I have no idea why anyone would say berskerker’s is low risk. Sure, it might be relatively low because the content is easy enough but then again what’s the risk of defensive gear? It’s low risk/high reward or no risk/low reward. Sounds fair to me.

(I’d like to see “zerk is faceroll” crowd doing arah at launch, scrap it, I’d like to see them doing it now.)

NoTrigger.8396:

the dungeons are easy, really. check out some wildstar stuff like GA raid bosses and the DS raid bosses.
i know dungeons arent raids and its okay when the dungeons are easy, but the wildstar level of difficulty is what anet should be doing in the future.

Just got back from WS … yeah their dungeon design is working, making ghostowns, not a game. Designing for 1% newer pays off.

OT:

Dance and repeat and HP/enrage/timer/onehit/… are just cheap tactics to create “hard” content and they will always be vulnerable to the learning/mimicking player “skill” trivializing them after enough time (or items/meta) is passed.

Mobs and boss AI need much bigger skill pools and more tools to react to the players, and (RNGish) never in the same way making players forced to think on their feet instead of just rinse-and-repeat dance moves. OTOH I can only imagine level of QQing if they ever introduce that (cant watch video and win qqqqqqqqq)

Chaotic fights are much more fun (as in reacting to the changes one cannot know in advance) and one of the reasons why some people prefer PvP (WWW) instead PvE “dances” or afk yawnfests. Sadly, good AI is hard (expensive) to create, so we are “stuck” in the endless cycle of hard/trivialized content.

maddoctor.2738:

Windsagio.1340:

rotten.9753:

Windsagio.1340:

The intended comparison is to their simplification of the talent trees (Is that what they call them? It’s been a while) to a set choice per tree as the ‘optimal’ one — ie the removal of the choice.

Then you got it wrong, I’ve suggested removing stats few times already and I had gw1 in mind where you were able to swap your builds in seconds. Going with those rash ideas of reinforcing gear choice will lead to nothing but to reduction of a player’s choice.

“Reducing choices is increasing choices!”

all kidding aside, gear is a meaningful way to accent your intended play style, and to allow a number of things that would be impossible with just traits.

It’s true that the balance is out of whack (although the meaningfulness of the imbalance is wildly exaggerated), but the poor balance doesn’t justify removing the choice.

~~~

The ‘reinforcing gear choice’ is the wrong way to look at it though, it’s ‘making risk/reward meaningful’. Right now, past a basic skill level, risk is not very meaningful in most of the content, and this is too bad.

Wouldn’t it be great if zerk had great payoff but took great skill, as opposed to ‘it has great payoff as long as you’re not absolutely terrible’?

Right now you can use most of your skills and traits without any kind of gear investment, which means there is a huge amount of choice in the game. If certain skills are affected by certain stats then those skills will be used by those that already have the important stats, meaning far less choice and variety for players.

It’s not secret that there is a lack of variety in gear stat choice in the game. But that’s not true in build variety, weapon, utility and trait variety isn’t terrible, in fact the “good” players are already changing their builds multiple times during a single dungeon run. Using different weapons, traits and utilities to be more efficient on different types of content.

It’s highly unlikely and it will harm the game instead of helping it, if they make stats affect skills, like Vitality giving more endurance or Toughness making WoR last longer or anything like that. Limiting BUILD choice isn’t what we need now.

For everyone who is suggesting to tweak how stats affect skills, take a look at PVP. There are more valuable builds in PVP, there are “bunkers” and control / support is even higher valued than in PVE. The answer to making more builds viable is in changing the actual encounters to feel more like PVP encounters.

There is NO need to make defensive stats affect skills.

What you are essentially saying, is that is good that gear doesn’t effect gameplay, because getting gear sucks.

Then why have gear at all?

I think if they made multiple gearsets viable, then the would also have to make getting gearsets less annoying. But they should probably do that anyway.

Or no stats. Which works probably best. But players will have less variety in play

rotten.9753:

Windsagio.1340:

“Reducing choices is increasing choices!”

all kidding aside, gear is a meaningful way to accent your intended play style, and to allow a number of things that would be impossible with just traits.

It’s true that the balance is out of whack (although the meaningfulness of the imbalance is wildly exaggerated), but the poor balance doesn’t justify removing the choice.

~~~

The ‘reinforcing gear choice’ is the wrong way to look at it though, it’s ‘making risk/reward meaningful’. Right now, past a basic skill level, risk is not very meaningful in most of the content, and this is too bad.

Wouldn’t it be great if zerk had great payoff but took great skill, as opposed to ‘it has great payoff as long as you’re not absolutely terrible’?

I shouldn’t have done any mental leaps. What was my point is that once you make a gear much more meaningful then once you pick it, you’re gonna be stuck with it and good luck swapping builds when your team needs a different one.

And no, gear isn’t meaningful at all. It’s a set of statistics that don’t change how you play. It’s really shouldn’t be hard to understand but apparently it is.

If you take a look at how “hard” it is to play defensively, I have no idea why anyone would say berskerker’s is low risk. Sure, it might be relatively low because the content is easy enough but then again what’s the risk of defensive gear? It’s low risk/high reward or no risk/low reward. Sounds fair to me.

(I’d like to see “zerk is faceroll” crowd doing arah at launch, scrap it, I’d like to see them doing it now.)

Well then, they need to fix the encounters, which ties in well to the OP.

How is tricky of course, and I’m actually with you that the wrong answer is further ‘incentivizing’ a particular stat set.

A few further examples of possible fixes:

Burst damage that forces a glass player to move out of their preferred DPS area whereas someone with hybrid stats can stay in (note that this likely still favors the glass player) (note2: The underground mordrem troll is a prototype for this)

In general, higher volume lower damage ae’s (an extension of the above – puts more pressure on aegis/dodgeroll defenses, adds value to things like regen and passive heals – makes rangers very sad as it kills both their pets and their spirits)

A change to defiance to weaken the icebow/burn cycle (we know this is already happening in HOT, but I suspect it will effect things more than people think)

The idea in general is to make it so that a glass player has to be on point with their active defenses (or their party support, as with aegis), whereas a mixed stat player can miss some and have some breathing room.

~~~

Part of it also is to tune the damage so that high Toughness or Vitality makes a meaningful difference. There’s an old (largely incorrect for most content) saying that ‘it doesn’t matter because every class is a 1 or 2 hit anyways’. If zerk were 1hit and required perfect play, and knights were 4hit and had some breathing room, you’d see a lot more knights

While still allowing the top players with perfect reflexes to play pure zerk for their speed runs and to get more advantage in props and gold/hour for their skill.

Put in “hard mode” dungeons, 2X the reward, if you’re downed your out and your team can’t replace people.

Boom, Zerker just became a question on whether you wanted to use it.

nesh.7234:

Chaotic fights are much more fun

The first time, perhaps. The 50th time, when the fight is still chaotic, and all your experience and practice aren’t worth much it gets tedious. Well designed PvE encounters have complex, but learn-able, mechanics. Each boss pull should be progressively, incrementally better than the pull before.

You might think spamming your skills randomly while running around like a chicken with the head cut off is the epitome of fun game design, but I assure you that opinions differ. A good raid/dungeon boss fight executed properly should be like watching complex clockwork, not a poultry execution.

“Chaotic” isn’t a great word here, ‘requiring reaction in addition to requiring rote learning’ is a good grail for encounter design.

NikeEU.7690:

nesh.7234:

Chaotic fights are much more fun

The first time, perhaps. The 50th time, when the fight is still chaotic, and all your experience and practice aren’t worth much it gets tedious. Well designed PvE encounters have complex, but learn-able, mechanics. Each boss pull should be progressively, incrementally better than the pull before.

Well, it may come to one’s definition of fun — to me repetition regardless to how long it take to master it is not fun. Having (even slightly) different fight every time is much more interesting, even better completely randomized procedural dungeon design with a “smart” mob AI.

NikeEU.7690:

You might think spamming your skills randomly while running around like a chicken with the head cut off is the epitome of fun game design, but I assure you that opinions differ. A good raid/dungeon boss fight executed properly should be like watching complex clockwork, not a poultry execution.

nesh.7234:

Chaotic fights are much more fun (as in reacting to the changes one cannot know in advance)

You missed that part of the quote…

If one must actively read opponents moves and react with proper skill to counter them that’s anything than random skill spam. Learning static “dance” regardless to how it’s complicated is repetitive by definition, being forced to utilize full skill set (offensive and defensive), reacting to the constant changes and at top of that coordinate with the rest of the team is less likely to get repetitive in the same time frame.

Experience is much more important in the “chaotic” type of fights than in any static design. When situation can change drastically in a moment experience will be a major factor in winning. (generalized) It will make real difference between record/playback players and ones who really know their profession inside and out.

Regardless to how good raid/dungeon design is (baring artificial time/gear/attunement gates) months (even years) of the design will be invalidated much faster by plain brute-forcing by players finding “optimal” strat for them and putting them on the farm status, that’s the race which developers cannot win.

edit

Windsagio.1340:

“Chaotic” isn’t a great word here, ‘requiring reaction in addition to requiring rote learning’ is a good grail for encounter design.

Yeah, poor choice of words — dynamic/reactive/… may be better suited.

Would Lupi, Grawl Shaman, or Mai trin count. While they do follow patterns you also have to be ready for the tells on deadlier attacks. While they are often similar you can still have situations with like double kicks on lupi, or even triple if you’re Purple Miku

nesh.7234:

NoTrigger.8396:

the dungeons are easy, really. check out some wildstar stuff like GA raid bosses and the DS raid bosses.
i know dungeons arent raids and its okay when the dungeons are easy, but the wildstar level of difficulty is what anet should be doing in the future.

Just got back from WS … yeah their dungeon design is working, making ghostowns, not a game. Designing for 1% newer pays off.

not everything needs to be designed around people who like to run around and not care how good/bad they are.
and the dungeons/raids isnt the reason why the population in wildstar decreased. dungeons/raids is actually the part that people have always praised.

next time research the topic instead of only trying to see what you want to see.

NoTrigger.8396:

not everything needs to be designed around people who like to run around and not care how good/bad they are.

In the world where developers/companies work for free, maybe designing for 1% may work, back to the real world where “bad” players are fed up paying games catering for the mentioned 1% … those games are … well less than successful.

edit

Yeah, gating and raids (it was 40man #hardcore before?) are not only reason, they missed a lot catering to the raid population tho and neglecting the rest, result — they may started recover with new additions which are not raid centric.

NoTrigger.8396:

nesh.7234:

NoTrigger.8396:

the dungeons are easy, really. check out some wildstar stuff like GA raid bosses and the DS raid bosses.
i know dungeons arent raids and its okay when the dungeons are easy, but the wildstar level of difficulty is what anet should be doing in the future.

Just got back from WS … yeah their dungeon design is working, making ghostowns, not a game. Designing for 1% newer pays off.

not everything needs to be designed around people who like to run around and not care how good/bad they are.
and the dungeons/raids isnt the reason why the population in wildstar decreased. dungeons/raids is actually the part that people have always praised.

next time research the topic instead of only trying to see what you want to see.

Wildstar is always a touchy subject, but dungeons and raids certainly didn’t save it!

wildstar was never designed for 1%. but when bad players get their huge unjustified egos smashed by simple tasks like silver dungeon attunement…….. well, the truth hurts.

then it had performance problems. alot of people couldnt play. and the game was simply unfinished and needed at least another year in development.
most of the issues are fixed and i can tell you if they decided to use another business model the game would have a healthy population. but thats exactly what they are going to do and the population will increase. its even increasing atm.

and now regarding gw2, the game is 100% casual and as easy as it can get. would it really matter if a little bit of content wasnt for people who dont like the requirement of intelligence to beat encounters?

Jerus.4350:

Would Lupi, Grawl Shaman, or Mai trin count. While they do follow patterns you also have to be ready for the tells on deadlier attacks. While they are often similar you can still have situations with like double kicks on lupi, or even triple if you’re Purple Miku

Grawl fractal is one of the best boss encounters in the game imo; Requires reaction, does the thign I mentioned somewhere about forcing position shifts, taxes the players health resources, but is still doable by strong players playing glass builds.

Arcdiviner is similar, if less reaction focused.

Molten duo is the opposite edge, it’s a dull stupid fight if done right and requires almost no reaction, but rather knowledge of what you’re supposed to do.

NoTrigger.8396:

and now regarding gw2, the game is 100% casual and as easy as it can get. would it really matter if a little bit of content wasnt for people who dont like the requirement of intelligence to beat encounters?

Calling the significant part of the population not intelligent is …

Advocating for the content my DVR can play better than any of the “elites” (perfect playback) is just waste of resources. /s

I dunno noterigger, there’s a lot of armchair production in that “It’s not the thing I like that hurt the game, it was other stuff!”

It smells of post-hoc reasoning.

Edit: And I’d go back to some of the fractal fights, which Jerus mentioned.

that content exists. I’ve stepped in to help save groups that couldn’t do grawl (first or second boss) because they weren’t quite good enough, even if they technically had the know-how.

Similarly with Mai trin. The cannon phase is annoying, but it’s content that many many players can’t do.

There are others that would be so if they weren’t exploitable (which is a differnt discussion)

nesh.7234:

NoTrigger.8396:

and now regarding gw2, the game is 100% casual and as easy as it can get. would it really matter if a little bit of content wasnt for people who dont like the requirement of intelligence to beat encounters?

Calling the significant part of the population not intelligent is …

Advocating for the content my DVR can play better than any of the “elites” (perfect playback) is just waste of resources. /s

gl beating avatus in wildstar then.

but according to your statement open world and easy mode content in general is also waste of resources because your DVR can play it better than you.

Windsagio.1340:

I dunno noterigger, there’s a lot of armchair production in that “It’s not the thing I like that hurt the game, it was other stuff!”

It smells of post-hoc reasoning.

i can tell you what all of the trash talk in threads like this smells like. it smells like “im afraid im too bad and thats why i talk kitten about other games that i havent really touched.”

and what you said can be turned around easily. because what i see over and over again is “what i dont like destroyed the game”.
people only see what they want to see and try to back up their claims with help of their tunnelvision, even when the big picture looks alot different.

if raid content destroyed games wow would have died years ago.

NoTrigger.8396:

i can tell you what all of the trash talk in threads like this smells like. it smells like “im afraid im too bad and thats why i talk kitten about other games that i havent really touched.”

if raid content destroyed games wow would have died years ago.

Difference is that while I was playing WS (or WoW or any other MMORPG) I did not spam forums trying to get it changed into GW2 (it did come up in conversation but mostly about payment model and/or QoL stuff) while some people are constantly trying to turn GW2 into <insert another game here>.

man, you’re always so disdainful/nasty. It really doesn’t help your case y’know ><

We’re wandering offtopic though; I’d actually agree with the simplest form of your position:

there is room for harder content in a limited format

It shouldn’t be a huge amount, and it shouldn’t be the focus of the endgame, but then again it won’t be.

OP thinks they can magic away the zerk meta, but you can’t. You need hard content to make zerk more challenging. We’re seeing the edges of harder content with the silverwastes stuff and specific other fights (mostly fractal content), and we’re seeing some definite engine changes in HoT that will effect difficulty.

~~~

The trick is that we won’t, and shouldn’t get a progression/raid focus like they tried to push in Wildstar, or as exists in WoW. Arenanet doesn’t like it, and the vast majority of players don’t like it. It won’t happen.

That’s okay though, it’s the reducto absurdum of this discussion.. the awful extreme that people are concerned about whenever difficulty is mentioned. They shouldn’t worry though, it has essentially zero chance of happening.

nesh.7234:

NoTrigger.8396:

i can tell you what all of the trash talk in threads like this smells like. it smells like “im afraid im too bad and thats why i talk kitten about other games that i havent really touched.”

if raid content destroyed games wow would have died years ago.

Difference is that while I was playing WS (or WoW or any other MMORPG) I did not spam forums trying to get it changed into GW2 (it did come up in conversation but mostly about payment model and/or QoL stuff) while some people are constantly trying to turn GW2 into <insert another game here>.

nobody is trying to turn gw2 into another game. if adding a bit of content to the game that isnt specifically made for you equals “turning gw2 into another game” then you must be a very egoistic person. adding content doesnt mean taking something away from you.

when people ask for more open world zombie gameplay, i dont go on forums and say “no, nobody should like what i dont like, nobody should get what i cant get”.

on the other hand its always people like you who are fighting against stuff that you personally dont like.

and thats absolutely disgusting.

@Windsagio.1340:
im sorry, but when i see people (and there is alot of them in gw2) coming up with the most kittened explanations and claims to back up something that isnt even true it makes me really really mad.

NoTrigger.8396:

nobody is trying to turn gw2 into another game. if adding a bit of content to the game that isnt specifically made for you equals “turning gw2 into another game” then you must be a very egoistic person.

If I was “egoistic” I’d start requesting that all the mobs should get AI (and skills) at least equal to the competent PvP players instead 1 skill meatbags and that every death should destroy all of the items you carry (including bags) and no item drops at all (only crafters), permadeath mode even — that’s the hard and interesting content to me.

But that’s not what’s GW2 is, just like it’s not raid type game. ArenaNet stated that already so regardless to my or your wishes it will never be like that.

what is gw2 exactly? a fashion show. press 1, win game, go afk in lions arch.
and thats just sad. instead of designing one of the best combat systems in MMO history they should have made more skins.

nesh.7234:

NoTrigger.8396:

and now regarding gw2, the game is 100% casual and as easy as it can get. would it really matter if a little bit of content wasnt for people who dont like the requirement of intelligence to beat encounters?

Calling the significant part of the population not intelligent is …

Advocating for the content my DVR can play better than any of the “elites” (perfect playback) is just waste of resources. /s

Actually the devs have explicity called the majority of the community too stupid for certain features. Although not quite as bluntly. Im referring the the idea of allowing players to select combo field priority in options. The devs said they decided not to work on implementing such a feature because the skill base of the majority of players is too low. And most would not understand how to use it.

Windsagio.1340:

OP thinks they can magic away the zerk meta, but you can’t. You need hard content to make zerk more challenging. We’re seeing the edges of harder content with the silverwastes stuff and specific other fights (mostly fractal content), and we’re seeing some definite engine changes in HoT that will effect difficulty.

Can’t comment on fractals as last runs I did was long ago before my long(ish) break, but Silverwastes looks ok (when not zerging). Those conditions can really hurt And I found mobs a little more interesting than the rest (well maybe pre-nerf Orr but it was long time ago so I may be wrong).

Switching from (almost) full DPS zerk to my WWWish guardian build did wonders tho

NoTrigger.8396:

what is gw2 exactly? a fashion show. press 1, win game, go afk in lions arch.
and thats just sad. instead of designing one of the best combat systems in MMO history they should have made more skins.

Well again, the interesting fights are there… people have just done them hundreds of times now, and given the high likelyhood of more fractal content and the direction we’ve seen from the mordrem fights, we’re likely to see more.

nesh.7234:

Windsagio.1340:

OP thinks they can magic away the zerk meta, but you can’t. You need hard content to make zerk more challenging. We’re seeing the edges of harder content with the silverwastes stuff and specific other fights (mostly fractal content), and we’re seeing some definite engine changes in HoT that will effect difficulty.

Can’t comment on fractals as last runs I did was long ago before my long(ish) break, but Silverwastes looks ok (when not zerging). Those conditions can really hurt And I found mobs a little more interesting than the rest (well maybe pre-nerf Orr but it was long time ago so I may be wrong).

Switching from (almost) full DPS zerk to my WWWish guardian build did wonders tho

Actually had a discussion about this in one of the old ‘zerk’ threads, although it of course went sideways.

It’s relatively hard to run zerk in silverwastes. The creatures can easily mess you up (especially the vines and teragryphs). It’s not impossible, but it takes a lot more skill even than doing AC or CM for the umpteenth time.

The hard part for the instance oriented players looks to be that anet seems to think dungeons are a waste of resources (which would imply raids are doubly so). They essentially have to make content that can survive high player counts — excepting fractals, which they seem much more interested in updating.

the “interesting” fights in gw2 follow the same pattern. if you can add 1 and 1 together and get the right result then you figured out the fight and you are good enough to beat the boss. its not more than that. walk from a to b. evade x attack. thats about it. no real mechanics, no danger, no nothing. not even the requirement to execute your rotation properly. everything else is just helping to get things done faster.

there is no depth, no teamplay needed, no good build needed, whereas in other games fights exists that could fill 5-10 pages to write down the mechanics and what each player has to do how and when and if only one person kittens up its a wipe.