Guild Wars 2

Galandil.9641:

sasukeboy.8492:

This forum has 64 pages, so I’m not gonna scroll it back, but I do wanna ask a question that maybe already has been asked.
I’m now on 70% of my spec. Some skills are already unlocked, but why I can’t use them?
Why I have to be full 100% to use any skills what I have unlocked already? I want to try out my skills on the new map, and not finishing the new map and then try it. It makes totally no sense at all.

Even though HoT is a mess for me too, especially the HP situation, you’re wrong about this.

I’m at 63,8% of my spec, and I can use what I unlocked, you need to equip the new traitline (only possible in the third-lower slot in the traits panel), then you can use the new weapon/new utilities (ofc, in our case the ones we already unlocked).

OFC, there’s no real reason to equip the elite spec imo if we miss yet the GM traits, but you can do it nonetheless.

Thanks for the fast response, I’ll try it later, I did look on my trait line and skills set etc, but can’t see anywhere that I can use it, when I try to equip my weapons for the elementalist it said that I can’t use it because the spec didn’t unlocked yet.
I will give it a try tonight.

(TL;DR version at the bottom.)

As a game developer in training and avid GW2 fan, I’d like to give my 2 cents on this:

But first, I want to congratulate Colin and the GW2 dev team on this amazing expansion release. In my experience, this has been one of the smoothest xpac releases I’ve ever seen and so far I’m having tons of fun in HoT. I think HoT is an amazing expansion and this deserves to be said.

However, that does not mean HoT is without flaws and the most obvious and jarring flaw is the way elite specializations and hero points are implemented.

What I think is wrong with the current implementation of the elite specs and hero points (TL;DR version at the bottom):

Personally, when I’m playing the game and reading this thread, I’m having incredible deja vu. The complaints I have seen about the implementation of elite specs and hero points are incredibly familiar. Does anyone remember the initial implementation of the NPE (New Player Experience)? If not, I suggest you type in “NPE” in the search bar on this forum and read the threads that come up. Notice the similarities? I do.

The biggest problem with the NPE was that unlocking all your traits and completing your character became an incredible grind. People were essentially forced to do map completion on each and every character in order to unlock all their traits. Doing map completion and unlocking your traits once is fun, doing it twice is fine, doing it 3 times becomes an annoyance, doing it 8 times (once for each class) becomes an incredibly boring and obnoxious grind.

Anet realized their mistake with the NPE and eventually changed it. Now you can unlock all your core specializations by simply getting your character to level 80. A lot of people were very happy with that change.

In comes HoT and what do we see? The exact same issues that the NPE had are once again back in HoT. If we want to fully unlock our elite specs, we’re once again forced to go through a grind very similar to the NPE trait-unlock grind that people hated to much.

I’m quite baffled that Anet seemingly hasn’t learned a thing after the NPE debacle.

I’ll say again what I said about the NPE: I’m not particularly bothered that we have to play through 50% of HoT to fully unlock our elite specializations (or 100% if you don’t have 100% map completion in central Tyria). The content is fun and I’m having a blast doing it. But being forced to go through 100% of HoT (or 100% of central Tyria + 50% of HoT) on each and every single character to unlock their elite specializations is a problem. That quickly becomes a bothersome grind that most people simply don’t enjoy doing.

On top of that, there is the feeling of disappointment that I won’t be able to explore the HoT maps while playing my elite specializations, at least not on my characters that don’t have 100% map completion in central Tyria. By the time I have my elite specializations unlocked on those characters, I’ll already be done with exploring all the new HoT maps.

TL;DR version:

The issues we’re facing now with the elite specializations and how they are unlocked is almost identical to the issues we faced with unlocking our traits after the release of the NPE.

The amount of work that goes into fully unlocking an elite specialization quickly becomes a bothersome grind when you have multiple characters that you want to unlock your elite spec on.

On top of that there is the feeling of disappointment that we won’t be able to explore the new HoT maps while playing our elite specializations. By the time we have our elite specs fully unlocked, we’re already pretty much done with exploring the new HoT maps. This seems to have disappointed a lot of players, myself included.

Galandil.9641:

sasukeboy.8492:

This forum has 64 pages, so I’m not gonna scroll it back, but I do wanna ask a question that maybe already has been asked.
I’m now on 70% of my spec. Some skills are already unlocked, but why I can’t use them?
Why I have to be full 100% to use any skills what I have unlocked already? I want to try out my skills on the new map, and not finishing the new map and then try it. It makes totally no sense at all.

Even though HoT is a mess for me too, especially the HP situation, you’re wrong about this.

I’m at 63,8% of my spec, and I can use what I unlocked, you need to equip the new traitline (only possible in the third-lower slot in the traits panel), then you can use the new weapon/new utilities (ofc, in our case the ones we already unlocked).

OFC, there’s no real reason to equip the elite spec imo if we miss yet the GM traits, but you can do it nonetheless.

Also it really sucks playing a new elite profession in pvp for a few hours, then thinking “ok, gonna go do that in WvW” and then realizing you would need to farm 100 hours or PvE just to keep playing the same build.

jheryn.8390:

HtFde.3856:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

That’s not quite the issue here

So you get to tell him which issue he wants to address? Not hardly.

I think he hit the nail on the head.

HtFde.3856:

- and the “storm” here in the forum is mainly based on not revealing important things before pre-purchase even started. Namely:

As a company they do not have to reveal a shred of information. We are fortunate we got what they gave us. We are not entitled to anything.

HtFde.3856:

People expected the elite spec to be available more or less from the start – instead they are hit with double gated content AND a huge HP cost. Get almost all HP from HoTM – to get those get a lot of masteries first.

So it’s not the grinding as such (or rather, not JUST the grinding) but it’s the way things turned out to be – which is a rather radical change from how GW 2 was before HoT and which was nowhere announced.

People (from my point of view rightly so) expected to be able to play their Chronomancer, Reaper, whatnot a few hours into the game and to enjoy HoT WITH the new elite spec. Instead they have to go through HoT with their old build do unlock the elite spec to then … er … have nothing really new to try it out with.

Assuming is stupid. You and others have no one else but yourselves to blame for “expecting” anything.

Just one point on this: “we are fortunate we got what they gave us” and “expecting”. As paying customers there are expectations.

I think the solution would be:
1- Unlock the elite professions for everyone
2- Make the new zones HP unlock the masteries

Nike.2631:

MrH.2591:

Yeah I was being generous I guess, they really didn’t think this through at all.

Really. You think the folks whose livelihoods depend on the game and have been working towards this release for about two years now didn’t think about it?

They have different MOTIVES than you, and different goals, but there’s no question who in this conversation hasn’t “thought about it”.

Normally I agree with what you say, but in this instance… nope.

I tried to logic things out a bit ago, and the best conclusion I can come up with is that Anet didn’t fully think it through. Arenanent is a company of ideals first and foremost, and how unsubstantial their ideals are has smashed against the cold wall of reality countless times. I don’t want to recount through the entire history of GW2, but there are plenty of examples where Anets ideals has crumbled.

Through the wretched course of becoming an adult, I learned two very important lessons:

#1: People screw up their livelihoods all the time. In fact, I’d argue that it is the default setting.
#2: Never trust other people to know things for you. Chances are, they don’t, even if it is their livelihood.

I’m just going to leave my feedback here real quick, and say that my biggest problem with the expansion is simply how unfriendly it to solo players, especially the hero challenge unlocks being unsoloable. On top of that Revenant is pretty much incomplete without Herald, and playing Revenant in PvE as a direct result is awful and completely unfun.

This is why I’m pretty much only playing PvP and have absolutely no desire to spend any more money on the game, or ever touch PvE again.

The backlash for this is massive. Both on the forums and the general attitude from most people I run across in-game. Yet anet doesn’t respond. 65 pages. Over 3k+ posts. Most people are too lazy to get on the forums and voice their opinions in the hope that they might make a difference. When you have this much response, that should be a red flag. But no, just keep quiet, maybe it’ll go away. This is a PR disaster with an easy fix. It’s beyond baffling why it isn’t addressed. It’s not like it’s an unpopular majority. Fixing this will make most everyone happy.

Tuesday, still farming the first elite specialization. I negate myself to unlock them though the jungle. I want to explore it with the new elite specializations fully unlocked. Also, it hurts so much for WvWers.

Still thinking 400 hero points is just overkill.

Xillllix.3485:

This has probably been said 100 times, but the WvW proof of heroic needs to be made account bound. Really sucks to have to farm for dozen of hours a class that isn’t your main class just to try out something.

Nods – but it is in line with: Go play with your old build so you can get your new build so that when you have your new build you can go play old content with it …

I just want to know where and what rock Mike O’Brien’s been hiding under during all of this and what he has to say about it(HoT) and for himself. He’s been markedly quiet/absent during this whole situation. It’s his company, his game, and his manifesto, after all.

He convinced quite a few disaffected players to pull up stakes and leave their games to come to this one, yet he’s not even posted to explain why GW2 has suddenly taken this turn away from his statement.

He needs to explain. You don’t get to badmouth -even indirectly- your competitors products only to end up emulating them without taking some sort of flak for doing it.

Will he risk being pilloried coming out and posting a statement? Perhaps. But that’s the cost of being foolish enough to issue such a manifesto in the first place. Love it or not, that’s where these player expectations have come from.

It’s time to put up, Mr. O’Brien.

Too much to read..
But i want to show my thoughts on the amount of Hero Points needed for elite specs.

If HP was account bound, i would not mind the huge amount.

For me its too much work per character just to unlock the specc you wanna play in the new maps etc..

So my suggestion, account bound Hp challenges in HoT.
Or Reduce the amount you need to unlock the full Elite, like total of 150-200 instead of 400.

Just my opinion. Ty.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Page 65?

Could someone please tell me at what point in the new “forum mastery” line we will unlock the “dev response” trait?

Right?

If they don’t understand how fail this is yet, they don’t deserve to be in business.

We get it, you put the mastery system (also fail, read on) to gate things and force people to spend more time rather than make an expansion that is actually expansive. Would it really have been so hard to make 4-6 maps of shiverpeaks size? You know…legitimately large and expansive, allowing you to roam all over for hours? What we got were these small maps that are maze-like with multiple tiers that are gated behind masteries.

Masteries themselves are so full of fail, it SHOULD have been exactly like the sPvP reward tracks: you select your mastery and play ANYWHERE (including sPvP for that matter) and your experience gain goes into that mastery. Yes, frankly this means a lot of people would play in Tyria (better to make the f2p seem better as the maps would be populated making buying the full game seem like a better offer) as the event chains there are done better. The event chains in HoT are horribly done. Some of them have way that trolls can easily cause them to fail…and others require so many people that if the map zerg isn’t nearby you will fail regardless of how well you and your little group is personally doing. Of course this leads right into another huge fail…

Open world content is meant to be built, designed, and balanced for solo play. This means those hero challenges (should be renamed to heroes challenge as you aren’t doing them solo and thus makes them less heroic as a mob is not heroic) need down tuned, and much of the event chains need better scaling or the enemies themselves need down tuned for solo play. Group play has the epic event chains (ostly the last boss and the step before it), world bosses, dungeons, fractals, raids…wvw and high level sPvP. Frankly there is enough being balanced for pure group play.

The HP cost regarding elite specs…if after 65 pages people don’t get just how unhappy the consumers are…nothing will.
Mastery system and just good ole exploration is enough horizontal progression, elite specs should have been 85-ish to unlock full functionality and another 200ish for the unlocks of the skins and runes. You still would have to work for it but you could never call it a grind.

Iozeph.5617:

I just want to know where and what rock Mike O’Brien’s been hiding under during all of this and what he has to say about it(HoT) and for himself. He’s been markedly quiet/absent during this whole situation. It’s his company, his game, and his manifesto, after all.

He convinced quite a few disaffected players to pull up stakes and leave their games to come to this one, yet he’s not even posted to explain why GW2 has suddenly taken this turn away from his statement.

He needs to explain. You don’t get to badmouth -even indirectly- your competitors products only to end up emulating them without taking some sort of flak for doing it.

Will he risk being pilloried coming out and posting a statement? Perhaps. But that’s the cost of being foolish enough to issue such a manifesto in the first place. Love it or not, that’s where these player expectations have come from.

It’s time to put up, Mr. O’Brien.

Sadly, I don’t think him saying something would mean much. He probably had jack-all to do with this feature being implemented in the way it was. TBH, I’d be shocked if he reads the forums at all. Call me cynical, but he’s the president of the company and that usually involves a busy schedule.

hot feels like a kickstarter gone bad (they took the money and failed to deliver). anet has managed to strangle the genuine enthusiasm of thousands of fans. i do imagine some of the devs honestly feel for the plight of the players-this decision was made above them and they can either quit or just go along.

but it doesn’t change things…we paid 50 bucks for the opportunity to grind 400 hero points. forced to play content that is at best unappealing for the chance to ‘try’ out one of the elite specs that were showcased as the main selling point of the expansion.

because let’s be honest the elite specs are all there is to the expansion (2 new armor sets!/a thin selection of skins). they have to gate it because no one wants to explore the new areas for zero loot.

65 pages in and still no meaningful response or even acknowledgement that a problem exists with the elite spec gating. nothing…not even a post. is this how anet ‘listens’ to passionate feedback?

I used to have fun when I logged in.
I’d connect, then look where are my friends, then decide on what I’d do.
I mostly WvW. I only went on the new map twice. I did a little bit of lab / halloween.
The rest have been either EOTM farm, or running around the new map.

My main have 100% map completion. I did it slowly, taking time to talk to NPCs. I love the immersion in story.
I didn’t discover the new maps for the sake of discovery. I went on them to unlock HP. I tag event mobs then move on. I get exp, while I look for the next point. This is not how I like to play.

It was the same when they introduced character progression that was linked to events. That was not fun. So, they changed it for the HP progression. At least players got some from normal leveling… I thought this would have shown Anet that gated progression is not fun…

I want the elite to play WvW with my guild. When Anet announced they would allow wvw players a way to unlock HP, I thought it would be one hot HP per level (10 hp). I could live with that 20 to 40 WvW levels… I did not expect only 2 to 4 token while 10 are needed…
Without farming, one would need up to 200 wvw levels…
With my normal gameplay, up to 150 days would be needed to unlock specialisation on one caracter… If I play one character, since token are caracter bound… unless I take lots of room in bank for unopened unstakable chest?
And I thought past levels would give me something… but no…

Anyway, I do not look forward to connect myself anymore.
I log in only to farm EOTM or the new maps…
When a game gets not fun, I eventually stop logging in…

TL;DR

- My profession’s elite is wanted for my wvw raid guild.
- To enjoy it asap, I have to grind a mix of EOTM and PvE.
- Grinding is totally contrary to my notion of fun.
- WvW tokens should be account bound, or chests should be stackable.
- The amount of tokens gained per level of normal play is way too low.

“Hold a gun”.
You know you can just not play, or delay it, do Halloween instead, explore old content without rushing, or just enjoy reading books in Durmand Priory… ?
You know you can also just play HoT without doing CT challenges?
You know you can also not use elite specialisation?

Kulvar.1239:

“Hold a gun”.
You know you can just not play, or delay it, do Halloween instead, explore old content without rushing, or just enjoy reading books in Durmand Priory… ?
You know you can also just play HoT without doing CT challenges?
You know you can also not use elite specialisation?

You know that all these things can be done without buying HoT?

The justifications you white knights will put up are astonishing and appalling.

You could do Eotm train to farm Scrolls of Heroics, oh wait you cant cause its disabled now xD

Ragnarox.9601:

You could do Eotm train to farm Scrolls of Heroics, oh wait its disabled now you cant xD

Yeah, was just reading that. I was planning on going back into EotM today since I can’t find a bunch of HoT challenges and didn’t want to spend my time getting lost (as fun as it is to get lost, it’s not fun for me when I’m going for a specific thing) and was disheartened to hear that it was disabled for now.

Hopefully it’ll come back soon with revised numbers, more proofs per rank would be great.

@Galandil: I want to know how you could play HoT witout buying HoT…
Also, I was answering to someone claiming that Arena.net would shot him if he don’t dedicate his life to the game…

I know that the other things can be done without HoT, that’s the point.

@HtFde :
No, EU do not let you ask for a refund because something do not match the hype around it.
Actually in EU, it’s very hard to get a refund for video games.
Some example with Steam refunds:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/sorry-europe-you-still-cant-get-refunds-on-your-steam-game-purchases/

Stop posting guys, anet won’t care. 65 pages full of constructive feedbacks and nothing has been done yet lol

This is very frustrating. I know we have heard from the devs, but not in any sort of definitive manner. Just we hear you, we may or may not do anything about it in the manner of weeks. I have to say I wish they would come out and say, This is how it is suck it up or We are actively working to fix this. Either way Ill only be checking the game and forums for a few more days before I just give up and stop playing completely.

PvP WvW player, (like most of us did not have map completion) and Im still 250 HPs away after playing around 40 hrs. And thats just on 1 of 7 characters…..

Kulvar.1239:

@HtFde :
No, EU do not let you ask for a refund because something do not match the hype around it.
Actually in EU, it’s very hard to get a refund for video games.
Some example with Steam refunds:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/sorry-europe-you-still-cant-get-refunds-on-your-steam-game-purchases/

I’m from EU and never had problems at getting refunds for digital goods, including from steam. You seems to definite the action of writing an e-mail “very hard”, it’s not for most of us.

Winterbird.5610:

I have so many other chars I want to play with the new specialisation and yesterday i stopped HP GRINDING! Yeah GRINDING!!! I want to experience the whole new content with the new specialisation I paid for

A lot of people seem to think that because you paid for the expansion you should get everything unlocked right away. You paid for the content, not the end result.

When you first started playing, did all the skill unlocks happen for every profession? No, you had to play that profession and unlock everything. It was not handed to you on a platter. Nor were the legendaries, nor were the dungeon armor – you had to work for all of them.

You had to GRIND – and nobody complained. Now you do.

And to point to the mantra that you “can play how you want” – that was for the CORE game – which you still can – play how you want. This is an expansion pack, not core game.

And all those that can’t solo everything – you couldn’t solo everything before. Or did I miss that YouTube video of someone soloing SB, kitten, Teq or another world boss? You solo dungeons? You solo WVW and PVP?
How about the guild part of Guild Wars? Get thee a guild and have a guild event to get the things that everyone needs.

I know, I know. You get your drivers license and expect a car. Get a job and expect 3 weeks vacation and a huge salary. Well, you can’t buy Masteries with gems or gold – you have to earn it. I believe the elite professions are called ELITE for a reason. Otherwise they would be called EASIES.

Skye.4983:

Hurry up Anet, time is running out. Either come out and say how you’re going to improve this mess or just tell everyone that isn’t singing your praises to go away. I will accept either outcome, but it would be nice to have some certainty. Original Sin Enhanced Edition is coming out in an hour and then Fallout 4 in two weeks, you’re going to have a hard time getting my attention after that.

I don’t expect any instant response as these things run through meetings and executive suites.

On the other hand, very simple solutions exist, and the disabling of WvW solutions does not bode well.

I, for one, am already moving on. I play games to relax from work that matters. Lots of good choices these days…

I overall feel like a lot of people on the forums are complaining because things have not been handed to them on a silver platter. I am a casual player and am pretty happy with the way hero points, elite spec and masteries were done.
2 days ago I spend 1 in game and managed to unlock my elite spec, and 2 more down the line which is reasonable and still have many more hero challenges to do that can get me the rest of the way with pretty minimal effort. The name pretty much gives it away: It is supposed to be the elite that have the full spec, god help us that it takes some time and effort…
Masteries as well I spent 2 hours and got to mastery 10, not bad if you ask me… I think this expansion has been great and shouldnt be scaled down to make it easier. I know I wouldn’t bother with doing hero challenges which have been pretty fun to find if there wasn’t this incentive, also got me looking around the map and taking in how beautiful it really is. So great job!

HtFde.3856:

People (from my point of view rightly so) expected to be able to play their Chronomancer, Reaper, whatnot a few hours into the game and to enjoy HoT WITH the new elite spec. Instead they have to go through HoT with their old build do unlock the elite spec to then … er … have nothing really new to try it out with.

This is the biggest issue in my mind.

It’s the implementation at fault, more so with the BWE’s in that Anet gave everyone who pre-purchased the game an ice-cream, for one lick, then snatched it back. Most of the players I know who pre-purchased were licking their lips in anticipation, had their builds planned out, armor at the ready, all other goals finished ready to roll the new spec etc, etc.

Cue wet fart.

Anet should have disclosed how this would actually be implemented on release before giving the specs to the player so easily in the BWE’s. Many have said Anet don’t own the player a thing, it was the players fault for purchasing so early, but they should have never created and marketed a pre-purchase environment that was guaranteed to create mass resentment and disappointment. Players shouldn’t expect to be hustled by their game devs.

It’s also pretty deceptive to newer players. They have been ramming these specs down players throats marketing wise as a core part of HoT with very little mentioned in that you have to pretty much map the entire first game to access it.

It’s like taking a car for a test drive, the sales person describing all the cool features and shinies, loving it and buying it, to then be given the steering wheel and told “oh sorry…you’ll get the actual car in a few months….you gotta go work for that kitten”.

Who does that?lol

Bridger.9245:

Instead of unlocking in order from top to bottom, they should be unlocking left to right. 100 points should get you a “completed” trait line (with 6 more traits to unlock for more options) rather than 60 points for a worthless trait line and another 100+ points to get to the third tier of major traits.

I dig this idea, just to throw another solution from a different thread up.

Anyway I really do hope they at least address this issue with feedback at some stage soon, either way really just so players know if change is even a possibility, as I hate to think of the flow on effect if this is a major sore point for the gaming media and their reviews while it would also let players move on, either in this game or somewhere else.

Kulvar.1239:

@HtFde :
No, EU do not let you ask for a refund because something do not match the hype around it.
Actually in EU, it’s very hard to get a refund for video games.
Some example with Steam refunds:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/sorry-europe-you-still-cant-get-refunds-on-your-steam-game-purchases/

I’ve gotten a refund every time I needed one (not often required, though) – of course companies/resellers say “No” usually … once you get the legal machine officially started, though, they come around.. I wonder if Steam’s policy has ever been legally challenged … my one and only Steam product is Skyrim and there is NO NEED at all to ask for a refund on that

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

A lot of people seem to think that because you paid for the expansion you should get everything unlocked right away. You paid or the content, not the end result.

This is not true. Only a small handful of those complaining on the forums are asking for things to be unlocked right away. Please actually read the comments instead of skimming them. You won’t miss details like that anymore.

And if you do truly think a lot of people do, please post direct links to posts where those lots of people explicitly stated they wanted it right away. Because I’ve been following this thread since it started and I can count the number of posts asking for everything right away on one hand.

Most people posting are asking for some combination of:

1. Hero Points Reduced. And reduced does not mean removed.
2. Hero Challenges in Heart of Maguuma made soloable.
3. The timers removed on the Hero Challenges.
4. More ways to earn Hero Points
5. More Hero Points per WvW rank

And I don’t really see how any combination of those makes them want it right away.

Skye.4983:

Hurry up Anet, time is running out. Either come out and say how you’re going to improve this mess or just tell everyone that isn’t singing your praises to go away. I will accept either outcome, but it would be nice to have some certainty. Original Sin Enhanced Edition is coming out in an hour and then Fallout 4 in two weeks, you’re going to have a hard time getting my attention after that.

They already got your money for HoT. Do they care if you stop playing?

I was spending 20-50 bucks in the TP every month. I’m not doing that now. That, they might notice, if people stop frequenting the cash store.

What Anet is failing to note is that gamers with money are older and have vastly more options in gaming. Delay leads to people finding other diversions.

Seera.5916:

Please actually read the comments instead of skimming them. You won’t miss details like that anymore.

Nearly 500 pages of complaining in one thread or another… skimming is a prerequisite.
But I understand what you mean. The complaint about Grind and Unlock seem to shouted while the request to make things less difficult seem to be polite whispers.

jheryn.8390:

What you may see as “constructive” (mostly because I believe you agree with them), I see as unwarranted complaining and crying.

I have no problem with someone laying out their case and why they think something is not good. It is another to rant and rave over not having things the way you personally want them as many here have done.

And it doesn’t seem strange to you that they create a completely new machanism for HoT – one they completely forgot to mention while they touted out other things aloud?

What would have been logical is something akin to WxP. A flat experience bar that gives you a HP when it is completed. ANet knows how much XP you can get from the events so they could tune it so that this process takes as long as they feel “ok”.

Actual HP challenges … just like in the base game … a bypass mechanism to normal levelling by getting a few HP faster – IF you can handle them. Apart from that a means for map completiton.

Masteries – filled parallel to the MxP (Maguma xPerience) and requiriing a more solid fill the higher the mastery’s tier is.

There – if they had done that I bet there’d be a lot less complaints – because it would have been with what GW 2 is instead creating a new, alien-feeling mechanism.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

And to point to the mantra that you “can play how you want” – that was for the CORE game – which you still can – play how you want. This is an expansion pack, not core game.

Are you guessing or do you have written evidence that ANet decided to deviate from that philosophy in the expansion? I think I read pretty much all offical statements but I cannot recall they invalidated this philosophy for HoT.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

Winterbird.5610:

I have so many other chars I want to play with the new specialisation and yesterday i stopped HP GRINDING! Yeah GRINDING!!! I want to experience the whole new content with the new specialisation I paid for

A lot of people seem to think that because you paid for the expansion you should get everything unlocked right away. You paid for the content, not the end result.

When you first started playing, did all the skill unlocks happen for every profession? No, you had to play that profession and unlock everything. It was not handed to you on a platter. Nor were the legendaries, nor were the dungeon armor – you had to work for all of them.

You had to GRIND – and nobody complained. Now you do.

And to point to the mantra that you “can play how you want” – that was for the CORE game – which you still can – play how you want. This is an expansion pack, not core game.

And all those that can’t solo everything – you couldn’t solo everything before. Or did I miss that YouTube video of someone soloing SB, kitten, Teq or another world boss? You solo dungeons? You solo WVW and PVP?
How about the guild part of Guild Wars? Get thee a guild and have a guild event to get the things that everyone needs.

I know, I know. You get your drivers license and expect a car. Get a job and expect 3 weeks vacation and a huge salary. Well, you can’t buy Masteries with gems or gold – you have to earn it. I believe the elite professions are called ELITE for a reason. Otherwise they would be called EASIES.

All skill points were able to be soloed in the Core Game to 100%, Which is WHY its even more stupid that people who have 100% map completions from core tyria can’t get enough hero points to unlock their specializations. people with 100% core completion are actually punished even more so, because they can’t get Hero points any other way but to wait at a point in HoT for people with the right masteries to come.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

I know, I know. You get your drivers license and expect a car. Get a job and expect 3 weeks vacation and a huge salary. Well, you can’t buy Masteries with gems or gold – you have to earn it. I believe the elite professions are called ELITE for a reason. Otherwise they would be called EASIES.

Um – like the “Elite” that is doing super-challenging CoF runs at the moment? If THAT is the Elite, I’m proud not to be part of it.

Skye.4983:

Sytherek.7689:

Skye.4983:

Hurry up Anet, time is running out. Either come out and say how you’re going to improve this mess or just tell everyone that isn’t singing your praises to go away. I will accept either outcome, but it would be nice to have some certainty. Original Sin Enhanced Edition is coming out in an hour and then Fallout 4 in two weeks, you’re going to have a hard time getting my attention after that.

They already got your money for HoT. Do they care if you stop playing?

I was spending 20-50 bucks in the TP every month. I’m not doing that now. That, they might notice, if people stop frequenting the cash store.

What Anet is failing to note is that gamers with money are older and have vastly more options in gaming. Delay leads to people finding other diversions.

Yes, yes they should care if I stop playing. I’ve been spending about $50 a week on gems since the game came out, the price of the expansion is just a drop in the bucket compared to how much I spent on this game. And yes, I’m not going to spend another dime on it unless I get my way, it’s that simple.

Then we’re on the same page.

ANET has a limited window to get people like us to spend money again. Let’s hope they wake up soon.

HtFde.3856:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

And to point to the mantra that you “can play how you want” – that was for the CORE game – which you still can – play how you want. This is an expansion pack, not core game.

Are you guessing or do you have written evidence that ANet decided to deviate from that philosophy in the expansion? I think I read pretty much all offical statements but I cannot recall they invalidated this philosophy for HoT.

The invalidated this statement with the New Player Experience which changed the way the core game was released.
Do you have written evidence that they intended the new expansion to be soloable?

Sytherek.7689:

Skye.4983:

Hurry up Anet, time is running out. Either come out and say how you’re going to improve this mess or just tell everyone that isn’t singing your praises to go away. I will accept either outcome, but it would be nice to have some certainty. Original Sin Enhanced Edition is coming out in an hour and then Fallout 4 in two weeks, you’re going to have a hard time getting my attention after that.

They already got your money for HoT. Do they care if you stop playing?

I was spending 20-50 bucks in the TP every month. I’m not doing that now. That, they might notice, if people stop frequenting the cash store.

What Anet is failing to note is that gamers with money are older and have vastly more options in gaming. Delay leads to people finding other diversions.

Pretty much this. The primary market for gaming companies is no longer the kid, it is the 25-35 demographic that have jobs, families, responsibilities. We also have the money. Delays = we go somewhere else and don’t bother returning. Gamers have long memories when it comes to companies that break trust. The only way to earn that trust is to act quickly and decisively when players have a problem on such a scale.

Yes, this means you annoy the ones without the problem. As the only ones currently defending things are either groupers/zergers or are the hardcore crowd that definitely play far more than the manifesto and marketing targets.

Harvest.2506:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

Winterbird.5610:

I have so many other chars I want to play with the new specialisation and yesterday i stopped HP GRINDING! Yeah GRINDING!!! I want to experience the whole new content with the new specialisation I paid for

A lot of people seem to think that because you paid for the expansion you should get everything unlocked right away. You paid for the content, not the end result.

When you first started playing, did all the skill unlocks happen for every profession? No, you had to play that profession and unlock everything. It was not handed to you on a platter. Nor were the legendaries, nor were the dungeon armor – you had to work for all of them.

You had to GRIND – and nobody complained. Now you do.

And to point to the mantra that you “can play how you want” – that was for the CORE game – which you still can – play how you want. This is an expansion pack, not core game.

And all those that can’t solo everything – you couldn’t solo everything before. Or did I miss that YouTube video of someone soloing SB, kitten, Teq or another world boss? You solo dungeons? You solo WVW and PVP?
How about the guild part of Guild Wars? Get thee a guild and have a guild event to get the things that everyone needs.

I know, I know. You get your drivers license and expect a car. Get a job and expect 3 weeks vacation and a huge salary. Well, you can’t buy Masteries with gems or gold – you have to earn it. I believe the elite professions are called ELITE for a reason. Otherwise they would be called EASIES.

All skill points were able to be soloed in the Core Game to 100%, Which is WHY its even more stupid that people who have 100% map completions from core tyria can’t get enough hero points to unlock their specializations. people with 100% core completion are actually punished even more so, because they can’t get Hero points any other way but to wait at a point in HoT for people with the right masteries to come.

So much this. I paid my dues with multiple characters getting map completion only to be set aside like so much dirty laundry come wash day. I’ll admit that getting map completion in old Tyria is not the huge chore that it becomes in HoT, but with this introduction to the Xpac I feel more like a leper than a loyal customer!

HtFde.3856:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

I know, I know. You get your drivers license and expect a car. Get a job and expect 3 weeks vacation and a huge salary. Well, you can’t buy Masteries with gems or gold – you have to earn it. I believe the elite professions are called ELITE for a reason. Otherwise they would be called EASIES.

Um – like the “Elite” that is doing super-challenging CoF runs at the moment? If THAT is the Elite, I’m proud not to be part of it.

I was unaware that CoF was listed as Elite content… you have something that states it is, yes?

Harvest.2506:

All skill points were able to be soloed in the Core Game to 100%, Which is WHY its even more stupid that people who have 100% map completions from core tyria can’t get enough hero points to unlock their specializations. people with 100% core completion are actually punished even more so, because they can’t get Hero points any other way but to wait at a point in HoT for people with the right masteries to come.

Well different opinions but I would find it stupid that people could unlock their elite without any challenge (and by the way most players returning on the game actually stopped playing because of the lack of challenge). Because yes having to fight a champion within a timer is a bit more challenging than fighting a normal NPC who attacks every 30 sec. It has a bit more flavour now to unlock every skill or trait. You actually remember doing that fight for this skill (I hate the Vampire but it granted me a new gyro). Maybe it is a bit of a shock but scaling difficulty up has always been requested by a high number of players.
The fact that you earn a daily reward for hero point is also something totally new, which is a good incentive for players to help other players. And right now I wouldn’t like to see it going away because challenge mobs are turned into veterans.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

HtFde.3856:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

And to point to the mantra that you “can play how you want” – that was for the CORE game – which you still can – play how you want. This is an expansion pack, not core game.

Are you guessing or do you have written evidence that ANet decided to deviate from that philosophy in the expansion? I think I read pretty much all offical statements but I cannot recall they invalidated this philosophy for HoT.

(A) NPE was revoked
(B) Unless something is officially revoked it is safe to assume that was before will be now

Well … not so safe, it seems ^^

The invalidated this statement with the New Player Experience which changed the way the core game was released.
Do you have written evidence that they intended the new expansion to be soloable?

I can’t speak to the reactions of others, and don’t feel it’s my point to tell you that you were wrong or right with the gating of masteries behind exp grinding , but I’ll tell you my reaction:

It made me not want to log in. It made me sad, like the good parts of GW2 (Play how you want) was turned into: Grind XP then do THIS, then THAT, then THIS, then UNLOCK 400 HP, and THEN (and only then) you can PLAY HOW YOU WANT. (Unless you want to play a different character, in which case, good luck!)

Hoping for a developer response!

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

HtFde.3856:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

I know, I know. You get your drivers license and expect a car. Get a job and expect 3 weeks vacation and a huge salary. Well, you can’t buy Masteries with gems or gold – you have to earn it. I believe the elite professions are called ELITE for a reason. Otherwise they would be called EASIES.

Um – like the “Elite” that is doing super-challenging CoF runs at the moment? If THAT is the Elite, I’m proud not to be part of it.

I was unaware that CoF was listed as Elite content… you have something that states it is, yes?

I bought a car from a dealership I expect it to run, I got multiple degrees and made through 2 years of probation contracts I expect to be hire, Or I’ll take my business elsewhere. Simple.

Test.8734:

Nike.2631:

Really. You think the folks whose livelihoods depend on the game and have been working towards this release for about two years now didn’t think about it?

Yep.

Just like they didn’t predict the massive outcry when they announced the price of the expansion.

Or when they announced the new “gold to gem” conversion system.

Or any of the other times when they had to take back a decision they had made because of a massive community outcry that they didn’t properly predict.

You can claim that ArenaNet is perfect and thinks everything through correctly and perfectly. This mess with the specialization points show otherwise.

If anything, this is a sign of how poorly they are doing. People are complaining because the specializations are locked behind a grind wall. The grind wall exists because ArenaNet is trying to artificially inflate the duration of HoT. They are artifically trying to inflate the duration of HoT because the expansion has very little content. HoT has very little content because ArenaNet couldn’t make more, even after all this time working on the expansion without adding new content to the core game. ArenaNet couldn’t make more content because they are extremely ineffective at making things.

And that explains why they are doing so poorly. We know that:

• ArenaNet had basically to make server merges with the megaserver thing, due to how empty the maps were.

• ArenaNet itself had said that, if they did it right, the Living World would mean they wouldn’t make an expansion. Here we are with an expansion, hinting that no, they didn’t do the Living World right.

• We also know the GW2 earnings during the Living World and, accordingly, it didn’t stop falling. Not only the LW didn’t raise the earnings like expansions do, it didn’t even prevent them from falling.

• GW2 became free to play, and we know that no MMORPG went free to play when its previous business model was being a success.

• NCSoft, which completely owns ArenaNet, has distanced itself from GW2. We have been told that it’s ArenaNet who’s publishing GW2 now, instead of NCSoft; the lack of advertisement about HoT is a very clear sign of how few resources ArenaNet has as far as publishing goes when compared to NCSoft itself.

• HoT has been released in a hurry, with many promised features that aren’t actually here but have been postponed for “later” (legendary weapons – they didn’t release even the three they had mentioned earlier -, raids, the new squad system, etc…).

• Lots of important people have left ArenaNet this year. Chris Whiteside, Eric Flannum, Jon Peters, Kristen Perry… Many of those have left in the last few months.

If they really did think so thoughtfully about things, they wouldn’t be in the middle of all those issues.

With the current mess about the specialization grind being just one more mess among many.

Well said. Something worth thinking about

Can we just stop calling them "elite specs " FKS (for kittens sake)!

They are alternate play style, they are no more elite than any other extra trait line with a new weapon. Continuing to refer to them as elite is a misnomer and propagating the fact is just getting asinine at this point. Unlocking them should be an accomplishment yes, but no more so than unlocking your other trait lines/weapons/utilities IMO.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

HtFde.3856:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

I know, I know. You get your drivers license and expect a car. Get a job and expect 3 weeks vacation and a huge salary. Well, you can’t buy Masteries with gems or gold – you have to earn it. I believe the elite professions are called ELITE for a reason. Otherwise they would be called EASIES.

Um – like the “Elite” that is doing super-challenging CoF runs at the moment? If THAT is the Elite, I’m proud not to be part of it.

I was unaware that CoF was listed as Elite content… you have something that states it is, yes?

Misread your post – my bad.

Taking a look at the “elite” traits though … they’re more like alternates (in some cases I tried during beta weekends) and not really “elite”.

I mean … yes, it would make sense to get something epic you have to climb a mountain. But then it wouldn’t make sense if it would turn all content into easy mode. So the “elite” specs are not really elite and not really worth climbing mountains for.

What irks me is that they created a new mechanism just for HoT instead of using the existing one … you “level up”, you get a hero point and if you want those HPs faster you can try a 10 HP challenge. Instead participating for hours in the events doesn’t get you ONE step closer to a HP – surprisingly it DOES so for WvW players … does this make sense? Well, maybe I’m too old to understand that …

LordAdakos.9726:

I can’t speak to the reactions of others, and don’t feel it’s my point to tell you that you were wrong or right with the gating of masteries behind exp grinding , but I’ll tell you my reaction:

It made me not want to log in. It made me sad, like the good parts of GW2 (Play how you want) was turned into: Grind XP then do THIS, then THAT, then THIS, then UNLOCK 400 HP, and THEN (and only then) you can PLAY HOW YOU WANT. (Unless you want to play a different character, in which case, good luck!)

Hoping for a developer response!

When you say you don’t want to log in, does that mean you haven’t tried the expansion yet? Because if so you should see if you really feel that way.

Also about the play how you want, when I started my second mesmer, I knew I wanted to play an hybrid DD/condi build (dueling, illu, chaos). I had to first reach level 20 to unlock one line, then another gate before the second line and finally a third one. During all the leveling I couldn’t play how I want in the story dungeons, on the map, in world events…Now this time is behind me. Think that in 1 month your toon will be fully unlocked … compared to the maybe 6 months to 1 year before we actually get a new elite spec…