Guild Wars 2

Dejavu.2349:

I asked you the other day, but you didn’t reply… How much real money have you put in to get as far as you have? I was trying to make a point in this thread… Because that’s really what it would take for any small guild to be competitive… dollar bills…. lots of them.

I can’t say because I don’t account it separately. Over the 3-odd years off and on I’ve certainly put hundreds of $ into gems and gold in general. With HoT and the guild hall I definitely liquidated most of my long term investments and holdings; all my Black Lion skins and stored mats went into upgrades for sure. Several thousand gold at this point, certainly.

But we’re talking about a game where vets will spend 5000g on a single cosmetic weapon just to have shiny footprints. I am much happier to have invested my accumulated wealth into a hall that others, especially noobs, get to enjoy too. I think it was a brilliant way for ANet to suck the vets dry and level the wealth gap a bit between old and new players in a way that has communal benefit rather than simply pandering to vets’ personal vanity.

Dejavu.2349:

You’re right about me being a solo completionist. But it’s why I played this game to begin with. That’s my whole point. I can’t be that any more, so my primary reason for choosing this game over others is gone. GW2 is no longer my refuge. It’s just another MMO. It’s the fluff that matters. No fluff is why I quit Wildstar (other than rosterboss). Fluff is why I play games.

It was never possible to get all GW2 vanity items alone. Do you have all the fractal or dungeon skins? If yes, I guarantee you didn’t two-man all of those. If no, how is that inaccessible content (except by grouping) any different than the guild armorer/weaponsmith 2 content being inaccessible except by grouping?

I mean if all they added in HoT was guild halls and raids, you’d have a point. But they added a ton of solo content too; just look at the legendary collection stuff.

Dejavu.2349:

I don’t see the point at all in having a guild hall when I can’t have weapon/armor smiths 2. It’s not the hall itself I care about… It’s the benefits therein. The fact that I stand to put in 2000 times the mats (that’s a reasonable number, too, looking at everything) of any average big-guild person and have the same access (but way way down the line) is just stupid.

This is just… confusing. If you don’t care about the hall itself then you likewise don’t care about 90% of the upgrades, so why would you ever invest in any of that in the first place? The arena, the WvW upgrades, and all the support upgrades that go into getting those… they are all irrelevant to you.

I mean you are basically complaining that ANet added NEW guild skins that are only accessible to non-solo guilds, even though they didn’t TAKE anything away from you. But they added skins only accessible through raiding too, as well as a ton of new cosmetic stuff accessible to EVERYONE, on top of a game that already had skins gated behind some pretty exclusive group content (fractals) long before HoT. I’m just not seeing the paradigm shift you claim took place.

Dejavu.2349:

Effectively, I get to choose between playing the game as they’ve allowed and even encouraged me to for the last 3 1/2 years and not have a guild hall OR join a big guild.

I don’t get where you’re being forced to choose at all. You aren’t being forced to join anything to maintain access to your existing bank or weapon/armorer skins. Sure, they added NEW skins that are inaccessible to you, but it’s far from the only content in the game gated off by stuff you don’t want to do.

As for banners, level a scribe the same as everyone else is being forced to do; big guilds aren’t getting off any cheaper here. You know full well there is no chance people in the majority of large guilds are pooling their resources to level a single “guild scribe”, as logical as that might be. It’s just one dude spending all his money the same as it would be for any small guild.

I’m not thrilled about this change either but it doesn’t ding small guilds exclusively at all. All the banners you had access to before, you still have access to the patterns to build now; the upgrades for these patterns were grandfathered in to any existing guilds. You just need a high level scribe now, which is an equal opportunity suckage.

Lastly, buffs… join one faceless guild to get buffs, which was basically what everyone in solo guilds did before anyway with how they ran missions and whatnot. The only difference pre-HoT is you weren’t technically forced into the guild, but most people rode other guilds’ bounty/mission trains to achieve this. You only have to rep the faceless guild for all of like 5s to get the 24hr buff and then go back to anti-social mode

And your own guild hall would be upgraded to full buffs in less time than you think anyway. They are actually really accessible. You don’t need resto 2 in anything to unlock all of them, as far as I recall. Honestly the fact that they made it so only HoT owners can get the buffs is a WAY bigger issue to me than the minor gating behind some guild upgrades.

I agree that lvl 40 and resto 2 upgrades for a lot of things and, by extension, the level 2 armorer and weaponsmith, are quite inaccessible for small/solo guilds. But this other utility stuff; claiming the hall, getting all the buffs, getting the anvil/merchant… it’s all just as accessible and affordable as any of the crap that was ever gated behind fractal or dungeon content.

Dejavu.2349:

You know me… what do you think I’m gong to choose?! Can you see me joining a big guild when I won’t even join your guild (a person who I know and like (except when you come into my threads being mean))? I said this earlier in this thread somewhere… I will be the last one standing in any guild I’m in and it’s going to be my own or my husband’s guild so one of us has control over it when everyone else leaves.

Spend your mats and time slowly upgrading your own guild hall at whatever pace you want. Exploit a faceless guild to deal with the mechanics of getting buffs and skins until you have it unlocked yourself. I honestly cannot see how this is any different than the 50/50 harvesting circles in Wildstar that popped up to efficiently take advantage of those mechanics, or people doing their solo guild bounties/missions/races in GW2 on the backs of other organized guilds that were doing it at the same time. It’s just using the mechanics to your advantage…

I have a solo guild. I was able to unlock, by myself, the armor and weapons vendor, the guild bank and the first expansion on the bank. Given enough time I would have unlocked the second expansion to the bank.

With the changes to the functionality of guilds I will most likely be unable to unlock any other things for myself. I don’t begrudge ANet for making this change, though I can certainly understand why some would. It used to be a matter of time, and only time. Activity within the guild was all that was necessary to develop the guild. Now activity isn’t enough, in order to accomplish anything for the guild specific guild activities, which are frankly impossible for small guilds, have to be completed.

It’s disappointing, but hardly game breaking, nor uncommon in MMOs.

Kal Spiro.9745:

…

It’s disappointing, but hardly game breaking, nor uncommon in MMOs.

maybe not in mmos, but gw2 wasn’t suppose to be same as all other mmos…

Jaxom.7310:

maybe not in mmos, but gw2 wasn’t suppose to be same as all other mmos…

The premise of my entire argument.

While some people have made very good points about why Anet made these changes and what I can do to gain access to the Big-Guild exclusive content, I maintain that none of the anecdotes mentioned are in line with the game I was originally sold. I know Things change over time and understand all good things must come to an end, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be disappointed enough in the current trajectory to speak up. If enough people speak up, maybe their future decisions won’t be so punitive to smaller guilds or individuals.

nezroy.8492:

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Can I sixth?

It already exists; it’s the guild initiative office in lion’s arch. You have your guild armorer and weaponsmith, your bank, and a private place to hang with one or two friends.

I want to seventh my own motion but I’m pretty sure double-voting is against the rules =P

@nezroy a guild wants its own real estate. Not some second-hand minister’s office in a crowded city… so… seriously?

Quote from Guild Wars 1: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”

Not to mention the fact that you can’t get there through the guild menu. Loading into Lion’s Arch is a pain… as for myself, I’ve actively avoided the place for a couple of years.

Dejavu.2349:

Jaxom.7310:

maybe not in mmos, but gw2 wasn’t suppose to be same as all other mmos…

The premise of my entire argument.

While some people have made very good points about why Anet made these changes and what I can do to gain access to the Big-Guild exclusive content, I maintain that none of the anecdotes mentioned are in line with the game I was originally sold. I know Things change over time and understand all good things must come to an end, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be disappointed enough in the current trajectory to speak up. If enough people speak up, maybe their future decisions won’t be so punitive to smaller guilds or individuals.

Well said. And with many of us coming from Guild Wars 1 (where we quite happily chewed through four releases with few complaints other than PvP balances), it’s somewhat confounding to see where things are going with out beloved franchise.

Dejavu.2349:

I am a huge GW2 fan – I’ve brought many people to the game and have been playing since beta, but the reasons I’ve had to come back to this game between every other MMO are pretty much gone.

I’ve played every major MMO from it’s launch through it’s content at launch. Some games (SWTOR, for instance) I get done with all available content before they’ve even finished the intended starting content, so I leave… and I don’t come back. Ever. Other games take a while longer (like WoW expansions, which I stopped buying after Cataclysm or Rift), but when I left, I left. It was done. Finished. Over. GW2 has been my mainstay since it’s launch and, sadly, it won’t be for much longer due to the fact that I can no longer experience all it’s content without being in a guild. A big guild, at that.

The primary reason I kept coming back to GW2 was that I could see all of it’s content without having to deal with people (I’m always a guild/raid leader in other games and that just wears me down) and still be as relevant as I was when I started a break – sometimes a couple of weeks, sometimes a couple of months; I knew the same great game would be waiting for me when I came back. And I put a lot of hard-earned cash into this game because I loved it so much and it earned it.

That has changed and this is why:
https://goo.gl/ZXBiva
I made a little spreadsheet of the required materials just for Resotration 1-affiliated builds in the Guild Hall. This isn’t nearly a quarter of the materials needed to get to the actual content like Weaponsmith 2’s, which require completion of nearly all builds in restoration 2 and a guild level of 40.

So, basically, not only can my small guild not even claim it’s own Guild Hall with it’s 2 or 3 people (family – pretty much the only people I can stand any more), but we have to get to guild level 40 and get an insane amount of materials – like completely impossible within the expected lifetime of this game (my kids will be through college before I was able to grind out all materials)- in order to fully experience the game.

I’m done.
I’ll play until I leave (again) for another game, but this time, I’ll have a WHOLE LOT LESS reason to come back. Right now, the MMO field is pretty sparse and dry, so I’m good for a while…. But I’m extremely disappointed that my refuge game is now just another game in a pile of grindy games that require I pretend to like other people. I just won’t do it. Unlike some people, I’m not a pretender… I really am incapable of feigning interest any more.

I agree with much of your sentiment, i too feel deceived and betrayed. I busted my gut for 3+ years, virtually on my own to get my guild where it is and all my efforts were wiped overnight.

Prior to HoT launch, I attentively listened to all the live announcements and guild chats from PAX and Twitchcom, read all the blogs i could find and not once, did they ever indicate how small guilds would get shafted. In fact i remember Colin J specifically stating in a live stream that small guilds would not be excluded. Well look where we’re at now, in nowhere land. This is worse than if they raised the lvl cap and we had to grind for another tier of gear like all other MMO’s. B/c at least with that, you can go and play the game and earn that gear over time.

What really annoyed me, is when i learned after HoT launched, we now have to earn 150 favor even b4 we can claim the GH in addition to 100g fee, same as large guilds do. Seriously? They could have at least told us prior, i could have bought some influence to convert to favor. There was no info on the conversion rate to my knowledge, but had i known in advance, i could have used the 200g + i spent on upgrading my guild in the last few weeks leading to Hot release ( that was completely made worthless) into influence and keep it to convert into favor. But since i spent it all on upgrading the guild as they kept saying we should do that b4 HoT as influence is going away, i could have kept that influence and converted it and had enough to at least claim the GH. Do u know how long it would take me to get 150 favor via missions now that only pays 3 per mission? a year if not more when u factor in that u can’t even get a suitable mission for 3-5 ppl every week.

So yea i do feel betrayed, who wouldn’t? I feel they kept us in the dark and fed us on BS so they wouldn’t lose sales and I will never trust anything they say ever again. It’s their loss though, i was a big spender in the gem store and i trusted them, but even if they changed it now, it’s too late as far as i’m concerned, they’ve lost my confidence and my business and it would take much more than that to make me trust them again.

Sorry if i sound bitter, it’s coz i am actually. I worked so hard to get my guild to where it was and it was all for nothing and i’ve lost quite a few members when they realized what the situation was and others haven’t even bothered logging in for ages, event thought they bought the expac. It’s a sad state of affairs for small guilds and my feeling for gw2 may never be the same again.

Tiger Ashante.1792:

I agree with much of your sentiment, i too feel deceived and betrayed. I busted my gut for 3+ years, virtually on my own to get my guild where it is and all my efforts were wiped overnight.

Prior to HoT launch, I attentively listened to all the live announcements and guild chats from PAX and Twitchcom, read all the blogs i could find and not once, did they ever indicate how small guilds would get shafted. In fact i remember Colin J specifically stating in a live stream that small guilds would not be excluded. Well look where we’re at now, in nowhere land. This is worse than if they raised the lvl cap and we had to grind for another tier of gear like all other MMO’s. B/c at least with that, you can go and play the game and earn that gear over time.

What really annoyed me, is when i learned after HoT launched, we now have to earn 150 favor even b4 we can claim the GH in addition to 100g fee, same as large guilds do. Seriously? They could have at least told us prior, i could have bought some influence to convert to favor. There was no info on the conversion rate to my knowledge, but had i known in advance, i could have used the 200g + i spent on upgrading my guild in the last few weeks leading to Hot release ( that was completely made worthless) into influence and keep it to convert into favor. But since i spent it all on upgrading the guild as they kept saying we should do that b4 HoT as influence is going away, i could have kept that influence and converted it and had enough to at least claim the GH. Do u know how long it would take me to get 150 favor via missions now that only pays 3 per mission? a year if not more when u factor in that u can’t even get a suitable mission for 3-5 ppl every week.

So yea i do feel betrayed, who wouldn’t? I feel they kept us in the dark and fed us on BS so they wouldn’t lose sales and I will never trust anything they say ever again. It’s their loss though, i was a big spender in the gem store and i trusted them, but even if they changed it now, it’s too late as far as i’m concerned, they’ve lost my confidence and my business and it would take much more than that to make me trust them again.

Sorry if i sound bitter, it’s coz i am actually. I worked so hard to get my guild to where it was and it was all for nothing and i’ve lost quite a few members when they realized what the situation was and others haven’t even bothered logging in for ages, event thought they bought the expac. It’s a sad state of affairs for small guilds and my feeling for gw2 may never be the same again.

Unfortunately, yeah. Same; my guild is small, and the main upgrades we did were to help out in WvW – we certainly won’t be able to get back to that stage (at least not if the 5000g scribing profession remains in the way). The most gold the members of my guild have accumulated (over 3 years, during which 2 or 3 of us put in more than 1000 hours) reached maybe 1600g, which of course was shared out for crafting and other random things.

No more guild catapults, no more banners, etc. =/

I’m kind of confused about how this one instance suddenly means ANet is changing and GW2 is no longer a refuge and they don’t support soloing at all et cetera et cetera. This is only one instance, and there is no guarantee that ANet will stay silent and do nothing about it. They’ve changed things many times over. But I don’t know anymore, because of all the people complaining about ANet reinventing the wheel and wanting just more content instead. They might decide to leave it because of that :P

@Nezroy… your talking rubbish ..

Of course guilds of all sizes pool resources, especially for scribing because it is so expensive and it opens up guild wide buffs… If they are not then the guild really is just a list people with numbers on their back and poorly recruited/managed.
Do the maths its disgustingly more expensive for a small guild to even level a scribe let alone to actually utilise it…. that’s if they get that far in the first place.

New players/new guilds are going to struggle even more unless they force themselves to recruit all the any bodies and everybody’s through endless mapchat spamming to become the next faceless 500 out there.
You would have to be seriously stupid not to have the guild pool it , really foolish.

nezroy.8492:

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Can I sixth?

It already exists; it’s the guild initiative office in lion’s arch. You have your guild armorer and weaponsmith, your bank, and a private place to hang with one or two friends.

No arena, no scribing, no portal, cramped camera angles…

ZachAttack.3957:

But then you wouldn’t get to play any GW2 because you’d have to go to bed at 9:00 xP

It’s too early in the morning over here, so I don’t get that one right row xD Gimme some time and a cup of coffee ;)
Still better than farming my *ss off for our 3man “previous”-WvW guild though…

GreyWolf.8670:

nezroy.8492:

It already exists; it’s the guild initiative office in lion’s arch. You have your guild armorer and weaponsmith, your bank, and a private place to hang with one or two friends.

No arena, no scribing, no portal, cramped camera angles…

Yes, small guilds have less than before and that lion’s arch office is a bad joke. Anyone who just settels for this clearly doesn’t care that much about his/her guild. At least Scribing, the Arena and the new skins should be obtainable for all guild sizes.

edit: care about and care for is not the same, engrish at it’s best

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Do u know how long it would take me to get 150 favor via missions now that only pays 3 per mission? a year if not more when u factor in that u can’t even get a suitable mission for 3-5 ppl every week.

You are misinformed, easy guild missions give 300 favour each, I have a level 15 guild hall and I am a 1 man guild…. each week I am able to solo the 2 easy guild missions (one of them unlocked at guild level 10) and I gain 600 favour a week from them. So really there is nothing stopping you from doing the same.

nezroy.8492:

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Can I sixth?

It already exists; it’s the guild initiative office in lion’s arch. You have your guild armorer and weaponsmith, your bank, and a private place to hang with one or two friends.

You are missing the point completely.

nezroy.8492:

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Can I sixth?

It already exists; it’s the guild initiative office in lion’s arch. You have your guild armorer and weaponsmith, your bank, and a private place to hang with one or two friends.

You really haven’t read this thread at all, have you?

Dejavu.2349:

SkyShroud.2865:

Dude, that some really arrogant words you have there. If you think that it is THAT easy to build a large guild and then maintain it to be large, then do it and show it to me, only then you have the rights to say those words but other than that, that is really arrogant of you.

Oh get over yourself. I’ve led big guilds in MMO’s through their raiding content. I know exactly what it’s like to organize people and am more qualified than 99% of the people here to talk about the huge pile of do-nothings that just come in to get the good stuff (it’s why DKP exists), but make no real contribution. I have perspective, tyvm. I prefer a meritocracy.

I came to GW2 because it was a game wherein I wouldn’t HAVE to lead or even be in a big guild. The entire point of this thread, since you clearly didn’t read through it, not that I blame you… it’s a lot of words) is that they’ve changed the very focus of their game and are now forcing people to join Big guilds to get access to skins and buffs, etc…

I personally know several people who joined big guilds and have donated nothing. nada. cero. zip. Whereas I stand to donate pretty much everything… and we’ll both have the same access, only I’ll have it after my kids go off to college… maybe. It would be so much easier for me to organize any level of guild – 10-50-500 – than to do it all myself or with a little help from a few people who have demanding jobs. I’m actually very good at guild leading. But that’s not why I play guild wars – I play this game to get away from all that work. Oh man it is WORK… a ton of WORK… there is very little fun in it. The new changes have taken away the primary reason this game is my mainstay (the one I don’t quit, though… it’s more likely now).

And we now get to grind for a veritable kittenton of mats for upgrades we already had, but that were taken away and put behind a huge mat wall. Yay. Their execution of the guild hall leaves much to be desired. Again… anyone who’s not a primary earner would not understand this at all. This thread is for primary earners… not for people who have it easy.

How big of a guild and how big of a raid have you led? I have led raids or should I say wars that consist of at least 200 players, way bigger than any of gw2 maps can handle. Have you?

DKP? I googled it and it something related to WOW, I’ve never played WOW even though I have played games for near 20 years, is funny because I have played so many other games but just not WOW. I have played a lot of grindy MMOs, underrated games and etc. The gamers circle I’m in simply describe WOW as a game that bought in a lot of kids into the gaming world.

It is true, there’s always leechers in guilds but that doesn’t mean small guilds do not have leechers. The proportion of the leechers never change in small or big guilds. Small guild has less leechers and big guild has more leechers, is just simple as that, it doesn’t make small guild any better than big guilds. Likewise, the number of contributors too is proportional to the guild size. Actually, I do not know what is your point of that argument.

From all your other comments
- You want the ownership of the guild
- You want it to be easily upgradable

You also complained your upgrades were taken away. They weren’t, what you had are already unlocked or converted. You do not have spend thousands of mats to research them again, the brand new guild have to do that to get them. Of course, it is another story to produce them. If you meant you had to spend more to produce them then yes, indeed, you can complain about that because is true.

Again, I stand by my point, you have no idea how to run a large guild.

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

lol

all discussions that involved comparing large and small guilds usually don’t end up cosntructive. that is because the comments are usually bias, unrealistic or unfair.

i have already mentioned it in the many guild hall threads that whoever has a larger resources will always upgrade it faster and easier, that will never change because that is how things are. so again, any arguments about small and large guilds are totally pointless, absolutely pointless.

again, i mentioned in one of those many guild hall threads. if anyone of you truly know how to fight for your rights, you will know the best approach is a suggestion or discussion or choice of words that are capable to gain supports from many others but obviously in this thread, no one is gaining much supports from one another. so yea, it is really pointless.

Edit:

Big guild people have practically no responsibility at all – they carry sooo little weight on their shoulders…

Dude, that some really arrogant words you have there. If you think that it is THAT easy to build a large guild and then maintain it to be large, then do it and show it to me, only then you have the rights to say those words but other than that, that is really arrogant of you.

No.. I think he hit the nail on the head personally.

If you can’t organise a tenth of that faceless 500 to donate enough to upgrade a guild hall in a tenth of the time a 5 man guild can, then well … maybe it’s time to step aside and get someone to take the lead cos your failing hard.
Small guilds can be easier to organise, but large guilds need a lot less organisation and effort per player to achieve the same goals in a fraction of the time.
Take off the blinkers and open those eyes, then maybe you will get a little perspective.

Is you again, Mr advocate. Since you mentioned 1/10 of the guild and TS mentioned meritocracy, I took the liberty to look at the donor list which we recorded all the donors and their contributions. It took quite sometime to count the contributors since we didn’t have it on spreadsheet but rather a simple word-like format, we easily have more than 1/10, thanks for your concern.

BTW, your statement about small guilds easier to organise and then big guilds lot less organisation….I don’t understand, it seems quite contradictive.

Okay I’m going to weigh back in here, because I’ve reconsidered my earlier position. I still believe that bigger guilds need some sort of advantage for being larger, because they’re much harder to run and often provide more service to the player base than smaller guilds.

By the same token I don’t believe any guild should have had functionality that they paid for removed, and I do believe there should be smaller guild halls that smaller guilds can work towards.

I hope Anet makes something happen for you guys.

SkyShroud.2865:

Dejavu.2349:

SkyShroud.2865:

Dude, that some really arrogant words you have there. If you think that it is THAT easy to build a large guild and then maintain it to be large, then do it and show it to me, only then you have the rights to say those words but other than that, that is really arrogant of you.

Oh get over yourself. I’ve led big guilds in MMO’s through their raiding content. I know exactly what it’s like to organize people and am more qualified than 99% of the people here to talk about the huge pile of do-nothings that just come in to get the good stuff (it’s why DKP exists), but make no real contribution. I have perspective, tyvm. I prefer a meritocracy.

I came to GW2 because it was a game wherein I wouldn’t HAVE to lead or even be in a big guild. The entire point of this thread, since you clearly didn’t read through it, not that I blame you… it’s a lot of words) is that they’ve changed the very focus of their game and are now forcing people to join Big guilds to get access to skins and buffs, etc…

I personally know several people who joined big guilds and have donated nothing. nada. cero. zip. Whereas I stand to donate pretty much everything… and we’ll both have the same access, only I’ll have it after my kids go off to college… maybe. It would be so much easier for me to organize any level of guild – 10-50-500 – than to do it all myself or with a little help from a few people who have demanding jobs. I’m actually very good at guild leading. But that’s not why I play guild wars – I play this game to get away from all that work. Oh man it is WORK… a ton of WORK… there is very little fun in it. The new changes have taken away the primary reason this game is my mainstay (the one I don’t quit, though… it’s more likely now).

And we now get to grind for a veritable kittenton of mats for upgrades we already had, but that were taken away and put behind a huge mat wall. Yay. Their execution of the guild hall leaves much to be desired. Again… anyone who’s not a primary earner would not understand this at all. This thread is for primary earners… not for people who have it easy.

How big of a guild and how big of a raid have you led? I have led raids or should I say wars that consist of at least 200 players, way bigger than any of gw2 maps can handle. Have you?

DKP? I googled it and it something related to WOW, I’ve never played WOW even though I have played games for near 20 years, is funny because I have played so many other games but just not WOW. I have played a lot of grindy MMOs, underrated games and etc. The gamers circle I’m in simply describe WOW as a game that bought in a lot of kids into the gaming world.

It is true, there’s always leechers in guilds but that doesn’t mean small guilds do not have leechers. The proportion of the leechers never change in small or big guilds. Small guild has less leechers and big guild has more leechers, is just simple as that, it doesn’t make small guild any better than big guilds. Likewise, the number of contributors too is proportional to the guild size. Actually, I do not know what is your point of that argument.

From all your other comments
- You want the ownership of the guild
- You want it to be easily upgradable

You also complained your upgrades were taken away. They weren’t, what you had are already unlocked or converted. You do not have spend thousands of mats to research them again, the brand new guild have to do that to get them. Of course, it is another story to produce them. If you meant you had to spend more to produce them then yes, indeed, you can complain about that because is true.

Again, I stand by my point, you have no idea how to run a large guild.

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

lol

all discussions that involved comparing large and small guilds usually don’t end up cosntructive. that is because the comments are usually bias, unrealistic or unfair.

i have already mentioned it in the many guild hall threads that whoever has a larger resources will always upgrade it faster and easier, that will never change because that is how things are. so again, any arguments about small and large guilds are totally pointless, absolutely pointless.

again, i mentioned in one of those many guild hall threads. if anyone of you truly know how to fight for your rights, you will know the best approach is a suggestion or discussion or choice of words that are capable to gain supports from many others but obviously in this thread, no one is gaining much supports from one another. so yea, it is really pointless.

Edit:

Big guild people have practically no responsibility at all – they carry sooo little weight on their shoulders…

Dude, that some really arrogant words you have there. If you think that it is THAT easy to build a large guild and then maintain it to be large, then do it and show it to me, only then you have the rights to say those words but other than that, that is really arrogant of you.

No.. I think he hit the nail on the head personally.

If you can’t organise a tenth of that faceless 500 to donate enough to upgrade a guild hall in a tenth of the time a 5 man guild can, then well … maybe it’s time to step aside and get someone to take the lead cos your failing hard.
Small guilds can be easier to organise, but large guilds need a lot less organisation and effort per player to achieve the same goals in a fraction of the time.
Take off the blinkers and open those eyes, then maybe you will get a little perspective.

Is you again, Mr advocate. Since you mentioned 1/10 of the guild and TS mentioned meritocracy, I took the liberty to look at the donor list which we recorded all the donors and their contributions. It took quite sometime to count the contributors since we didn’t have it on spreadsheet but rather a simple word-like format, we easily have more than 1/10, thanks for your concern.

BTW, your statement about small guilds easier to organise and then big guilds lot less organisation….I don’t understand, it seems quite contradictive.

No its not a contradiction you simply don’t understand what was being said, because you seem reluctant to look past your own nose, but I am not all that surprised….

nezroy.8492:

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Can I sixth?

It already exists; it’s the guild initiative office in lion’s arch. You have your guild armorer and weaponsmith, your bank, and a private place to hang with one or two friends.

Good lord, have you not been reading? What you are listing are the bare basics, which my guild earned the week after launch, just-about. Other things the 25 of us EARNED were the ability to earn banners, the ability to earn PVE boosts (like more magic find for the entire guild for 2 days), the ability to earn WvW upgrades and WvW tools (siege suits and weaponry), etc. AND THOSE ARE ALL UNAVAILABLE NOW.

Fact of the matter is, most of the guild do not play anymore, or log in very irregularly. But we were sitting on a fully built guild pre-HoT. And all those things we could earn the influence for, are now UNAVAILABLE. What’s left of the guild in this game is NOT going to be able (or willing) to grind up humongous amounts of resources, so they’re basically gone for good. And I REALLY don’t think I can lure guild mates back from the other games we play to this game with the promise they need to be grind monkeys if they want to be any help in WvW.

It really ticks me off that all the boosts we’d already earned the influence for and built, are now gone. We’re left with 25 of each banner, which we can’t make new ones of. What a GREAT improvement.

Bloodstealer.5978:

No its not a contradiction you simply don’t understand what was being said, because you seem reluctant to look past your own nose, but I am not all that surprised….

It is contradictive.

You said it yourself in this post that small guild is easier to organise and that imply large guild is harder to organise. Keywords here are “easier” and “organise”.
Then, you said less organisation, what are you suggesting here with this “less organisation” and the “easier to organise”.

SkyShroud.2865:

Bloodstealer.5978:

No its not a contradiction you simply don’t understand what was being said, because you seem reluctant to look past your own nose, but I am not all that surprised….

It is contradictive.

You said it yourself in this post that small guild is easier to organise and that imply large guild is harder to organise. Keywords here are “easier” and “organise”.
Then, you said less organisation, what are you suggesting here with this “less organisation” and the “easier to organise”.

For a small guild to go out and achieve ooh lets say tavern resto 1.. it requires the guild to be organised and dedicated to achieving that as every player would need to play a far greater part within the process when comparing to say the 300 – 500 others running the same activities within your large guild how much organisation do you think it requires knowing that there would be such low amount of effort per player in comparison and a large surplus on the backend of the activity within the guild as a whole..

Whilst on the face of it having much larger numbers within the guild might appear to be difficult to manage, reality of it is it requires much less in the way of organisation in order to achieve the same goals as a small guild.

As a guild leader who has managed large raid focused guilds and small/medium niche/fun guilds this is sooo very obvious .. maybe to you its not, but I guess everyone manages and organises their own way.

That said, I never said that it was easy for any size of guild to manage and organise anything, but because a small guild obviously has less numbers it is easier to micro manage it when organising guild activities, but at the same time the variables within the guild goals, achievements and values have the tendency to require less organisation in large guilds due to the surplus within it.

So its easier to set out and organise the activity of a smaller guild due to numbers for sure, but it then leads to a greater amount of organisation within the activity to manage each member’s role and involvement as it plays a much larger part in the outcome of any organised activity… not so much for a larger guild imo.

EDIT .. granted maybe my original post needed more elaboration to the points being made.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Whilst on the face of it having much larger numbers within the guild might appear to be difficult to manage, reality of it is it requires much less in the way of organisation in order to achieve the same goals as a small guild.

I agree with you, Bloodstealer.

[deleted huge diatribe about my past guild leadership because it’s totally not relevant here at all since I’m not leading a big guild in GW2 and have no intention of doing so ever because this game is for ME. Sky is trying to distract me from what matters with his blah blah blah]

This thread is about a huge material wall in front of buffs and skins access, some of which people already had before Hot, but that were callously stripped of in Hot.

A large guild is going to, by default, have more primary contributors, more secondary contributors, and more tertiary contributors than a small guild. In my case, REALLY small guild – just a family guild… I am THE contributor. My husband works 60 hour weeks and isn’t a farmer type like me and my kids think gw2 is mostly boring. They’re not even 80 yet, but are leveling slowly.

Anyone in any large guild is going to have to put in less mats (in some cases, 2000 times less) than I will need to in order to get the same access while still maintaining personal integrity and ownership of the guild into which I sink my mats.

Sure, I could join some random big guild to get the buffs or, later, skins, assuming they don’t set their permissions such that I couldn’t (which they can do and some have), but my argument is that I shouldn’t HAVE to. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, but I wish people would stop making the same irrelevant or pointless arguments over and over again.

As an aside… Ecto gambling is fail. Last night I gave an evil skritt all but 11 of my gold and all my ecto because… I was bored of grinding, thus causing myself to have to re-grind all that Ecto… I do like the Silverwastes, so… see ya there! https://youtu.be/l3Y5mPESQkw

Valentinus.3412:

I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.

You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!

The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.

If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.

And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.

You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.

/rant

Meh, My 2 man guild in GW1 had a fully upgraded Guild hall. Why does a GH need so much grind when people just want to have their own place to hang out.

Broom.2561:

nezroy.8492:

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Can I sixth?

It already exists; it’s the guild initiative office in lion’s arch. You have your guild armorer and weaponsmith, your bank, and a private place to hang with one or two friends.

Good lord, have you not been reading? What you are listing are the bare basics, which my guild earned the week after launch, just-about. Other things the 25 of us EARNED were the ability to earn banners, the ability to earn PVE boosts (like more magic find for the entire guild for 2 days), the ability to earn WvW upgrades and WvW tools (siege suits and weaponry), etc. AND THOSE ARE ALL UNAVAILABLE NOW.

Fact of the matter is, most of the guild do not play anymore, or log in very irregularly. But we were sitting on a fully built guild pre-HoT. And all those things we could earn the influence for, are now UNAVAILABLE. What’s left of the guild in this game is NOT going to be able (or willing) to grind up humongous amounts of resources, so they’re basically gone for good. And I REALLY don’t think I can lure guild mates back from the other games we play to this game with the promise they need to be grind monkeys if they want to be any help in WvW.

It really ticks me off that all the boosts we’d already earned the influence for and built, are now gone. We’re left with 25 of each banner, which we can’t make new ones of. What a GREAT improvement.

Not to quote myself (okay, I’m quoting myself), but yeah… not sure why people didn’t read the follow-ups to a sixthing of a motion if they really had anything to input about the string of motions. There were a couple of responses, and I replied to one a little higher up in the thread with this:

Swift.1930:

nezroy.8492:

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Can I sixth?

It already exists; it’s the guild initiative office in lion’s arch. You have your guild armorer and weaponsmith, your bank, and a private place to hang with one or two friends.

I want to seventh my own motion but I’m pretty sure double-voting is against the rules =P

@nezroy a guild wants its own real estate. Not some second-hand minister’s office in a crowded city… so… seriously?

Quote from Guild Wars 1: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”

Not to mention the fact that you can’t get there through the guild menu. Loading into Lion’s Arch is a pain… as for myself, I’ve actively avoided the place for a couple of years.

Bloodstealer.5978:

SkyShroud.2865:

Bloodstealer.5978:

No its not a contradiction you simply don’t understand what was being said, because you seem reluctant to look past your own nose, but I am not all that surprised….

It is contradictive.

You said it yourself in this post that small guild is easier to organise and that imply large guild is harder to organise. Keywords here are “easier” and “organise”.
Then, you said less organisation, what are you suggesting here with this “less organisation” and the “easier to organise”.

For a small guild to go out and achieve ooh lets say tavern resto 1.. it requires the guild to be organised and dedicated to achieving that as every player would need to play a far greater part within the process when comparing to say the 300 – 500 others running the same activities within your large guild how much organisation do you think it requires knowing that there would be such low amount of effort per player in comparison and a large surplus on the backend of the activity within the guild as a whole..

Whilst on the face of it having much larger numbers within the guild might appear to be difficult to manage, reality of it is it requires much less in the way of organisation in order to achieve the same goals as a small guild.

As a guild leader who has managed large raid focused guilds and small/medium niche/fun guilds this is sooo very obvious .. maybe to you its not, but I guess everyone manages and organises their own way.

That said, I never said that it was easy for any size of guild to manage and organise anything, but because a small guild obviously has less numbers it is easier to micro manage it when organising guild activities, but at the same time the variables within the guild goals, achievements and values have the tendency to require less organisation in large guilds due to the surplus within it.

So its easier to set out and organise the activity of a smaller guild due to numbers for sure, but it then leads to a greater amount of organisation within the activity to manage each member’s role and involvement as it plays a much larger part in the outcome of any organised activity… not so much for a larger guild imo.

EDIT .. granted maybe my original post needed more elaboration to the points being made.

Isn’t that natural? It takes efforts to become large and in return for those efforts, the large guild can spend less efforts in certain areas. Likewise, the opposite for the smaller guild. So, what exactly is your point?

As far as I read, TS simply wants a guild of her own, something that belongs to her with her and her husband as the owners. But, unwilling to fork out that huge amount of mats to obtain the fully upgraded guild hall and that is why she is complaining. And, like all others, talks about small guilds and large guilds comparisons which often pointless because we all know large guild will upgrade the hall easier and faster than small guild.

As usual, some people suggest scaling but scaling will never happen because it is downright unfair.

As usual, some people talk about small/medium/large guild halls but never talk about the details of those guild halls, like what kind of upgrades should be made available for those guild halls. It is only logical that large guild hall has features or functions that small guild hall doesn’t, otherwise, what is the point of having multiple sizing, that is just like scaling but rebanding it in other terms.

In the end, many such discussions are often bias and nonconstructive.

would be nice to to hire “companions” at the tavern

aspirine.6852:

Meh, My 2 man guild in GW1 had a fully upgraded Guild hall. Why does a GH need so much grind when people just want to have their own place to hang out.

What exactly did a full GW1 guild hall provide that a near empty GW2 guid hall doesn’t?

maddoctor.2738:

aspirine.6852:

Meh, My 2 man guild in GW1 had a fully upgraded Guild hall. Why does a GH need so much grind when people just want to have their own place to hang out.

What exactly did a full GW1 guild hall provide that a near empty GW2 guid hall doesn’t?

Pretty much everything, merchants, suppliers, banking.

SkyShroud.2865:

As far as I read, TS simply wants a guild of her own, something that belongs to her with her and her husband as the owners. But, unwilling to fork out that huge amount of mats to obtain the fully upgraded guild hall and that is why she is complaining. And, like all others, talks about small guilds and large guilds comparisons which often pointless because we all know large guild will upgrade the hall easier and faster than small guild.
…
In the end, many such discussions are often bias and nonconstructive.

Not unwilling, but

1) don’t think I should HAVE to given what GW2 was for the 3 1/2 year prior to HoT. It’s the ONLY game I’ve played (and I’ve played pretty much all of them) to change the primary focus of their game after 3 1/2 years of setting customer expectations.

2) The mat requirement is WAY too high to unlock everything – It is clearly punitive to small guilds.. There really is no argument here. I expected to have to work much harder than a normal small guild (like that of my friend) because that’s the way it was before, but this is an insane amount harder than they have to work, which is exponentially more work than any random person in a Big Guild has to do to gain the same benefits, which is unfair. That this game is still about fluff (skins, mini’s, bragging rights) and that the guild hall adds a HUGE discrepancy of access to said fluff between individuals of different number of people in their guild, is a big problem for them now and in the future. They need to know they can not continue on this path of disenfranchising small guilds.

3) If they didn’t take anything away and all the guild stuff was NEW and not a reworking of what was – a reworking that strips guilds of what they already earned and effectively makes them re-earn what they already earned (no game I’ve played has every done this either after launch – this is like closed Beta level stuff). I wouldn’t be nearly as upset. I’d still be annoyed, But it’d be easier to swallow.

In the end ALL discussions about anything are biased. There are always people of differing opinion – that doesn’t make the conversation pointless. There is a goal here and it has not been reached. My opinion that the new changes made the game I loved – my favorite MMO of all time – much less lovable is a valid opinion.

Have to agree with title. Smaller groups/soloers/not grind inclined are not a priority here and we probably should have understood the message all the way back when “ascended” were announced.

Content gating, disregard for small guilds and intense focus on larger groups is close to flexing the middle finger at my casual, most solo, sometimes small group playstyle.

Overall that is not a problem. Actually THIS time I got the message! If this is the most profitable approach, this is of course what Anet v.2 should do.
GW2 was (for me) a great investment – HoT… Not so much. Overall I have gotten all the enjoyment I could have hoped for.

I will probably log in for a few minutes most days to collect laurels, chat up remaining friends etc. Who knows? Things might change and I may return to actually play some time in the future.

A new expansion… I would expect it will be aimed at everything I am not, so…

ZachAttack.3957:

Broom.2561:

Jaxom.7310:

Compass.9621:

Quote from Swift.1930: A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

ZachAttack.3957:

Ashen.2907:

Swift.1930:

A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.

Totally agree.

I third the motion.

I fourth the motion.

i fifth the motion.

Can I sixth?

Of course! Now we just need to start a petition and everyone can sign it.

Honestly, making a smaller series of maps that have their own independent costs/limit on decorations would be the absolute best solution for smaller guilds.

It’s probably the only solution that makes sense, and does not really impact large guilds aside from maybe those said large guilds wanting to reach a highest cap guild hall as soon as possible. I imagine though a time-gate would resolve that, plus with so many members you know the guildies would likely demand a larger guild even at the expense of the larger guild hall locking out certain functions until the upgrade is reached.

So… /signed.

SkyShroud.2865:

As usual, some people suggest scaling but scaling will never happen because it is downright unfair.

It wouldn’t have to be.

maddoctor.2738:

Dejavu.2349:

maddoctor.2738:

And they “fixed” that with Heart of Thorns.

But aside from that, do you really “quit” because they took the guild banners away? Were they so important that it was the sole reason to enjoy the game? So you are leaving for a couple of nearly useless buffs?

It’s not the banners… Though I do like those. It’s the skins, mostly, but also buffs, etc…
They’re gating content behind a wall of friends. I’m not a user… I’m not going to join some guild just so I can use them, knowing full well I don’t give a crap. I’ve been able to do everything on my own and I want to be able to now. It’s why I play this game and give them money.

IT’s not like the guild weapon skins are the only gated skins in the game. You make it sound like everything else is available for everyone and only those are badly gated. They put things behind content, you don’t do that content, you don’t get those things, it’s a rather simple principle. If some skins are what made you quit the game then I don’t know, you obviously weren’t having any fun actually playing the game and having fun anyway.

There is no excuse for taking content away from players only to gate it behind new content that requires you spend money on it.

In fact the only valid excuse is if the content is simply broken.

Everything about HOT has been a betrayal of consumer expectations on some level.

Vavume.8065:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Do u know how long it would take me to get 150 favor via missions now that only pays 3 per mission? a year if not more when u factor in that u can’t even get a suitable mission for 3-5 ppl every week.

You are misinformed, easy guild missions give 300 favour each, I have a level 15 guild hall and I am a 1 man guild…. each week I am able to solo the 2 easy guild missions (one of them unlocked at guild level 10) and I gain 600 favour a week from them. So really there is nothing stopping you from doing the same.

If this is true, then yes i’ve been misinformed. I asked a friend who’s in a big guild has been doing mission with them how many favor u get per mission and told me 3. Even thought when i looked at the missions panel it did indicate a number of 300, after he told me that, i thought it was maybe some weekly limit u could earn or some such. wish there was a clearer explanation within the guild tools about this.
But thanks for pointing that out, i’ll see if i can get something done then.

Dejavu.2349:

SkyShroud.2865:

As far as I read, TS simply wants a guild of her own, something that belongs to her with her and her husband as the owners. But, unwilling to fork out that huge amount of mats to obtain the fully upgraded guild hall and that is why she is complaining. And, like all others, talks about small guilds and large guilds comparisons which often pointless because we all know large guild will upgrade the hall easier and faster than small guild.
…
In the end, many such discussions are often bias and nonconstructive.

Not unwilling, but

1) don’t think I should HAVE to given what GW2 was for the 3 1/2 year prior to HoT. It’s the ONLY game I’ve played (and I’ve played pretty much all of them) to change the primary focus of their game after 3 1/2 years of setting customer expectations.

2) The mat requirement is WAY too high to unlock everything – It is clearly punitive to small guilds.. There really is no argument here. I expected to have to work much harder than a normal small guild (like that of my friend) because that’s the way it was before, but this is an insane amount harder than they have to work, which is exponentially more work than any random person in a Big Guild has to do to gain the same benefits, which is unfair. That this game is still about fluff (skins, mini’s, bragging rights) and that the guild hall adds a HUGE discrepancy of access to said fluff between individuals of different number of people in their guild, is a big problem for them now and in the future. They need to know they can not continue on this path of disenfranchising small guilds.

3) If they didn’t take anything away and all the guild stuff was NEW and not a reworking of what was – a reworking that strips guilds of what they already earned and effectively makes them re-earn what they already earned (no game I’ve played has every done this either after launch – this is like closed Beta level stuff). I wouldn’t be nearly as upset. I’d still be annoyed, But it’d be easier to swallow.

In the end ALL discussions about anything are biased. There are always people of differing opinion – that doesn’t make the conversation pointless. There is a goal here and it has not been reached. My opinion that the new changes made the game I loved – my favorite MMO of all time – much less lovable is a valid opinion.

Anet made a lot of changes to existing systems for the past 3 years yet I haven’t seen a thread that literally call out to them and say stop changing the existing systems. Of course, I am too annoyed at how much they always keep changing the existing systems but luckily for anet, gw2 still is the most value for money game though the number of buy-to-play model games are slowly increasing next year.

The opinions are bias and nonconstructive simply because it doesn’t benefit everyone but rather selective group of people which thus become discriminating to other groups.

Celtic Lady.3729:

SkyShroud.2865:

As usual, some people suggest scaling but scaling will never happen because it is downright unfair.

It wouldn’t have to be.

How can that be? Scaling in open world is fair because every single player is subjected to it. How do you suggest it to apply to guild hall in a way that doesn’t discriminate and selectively subject guilds.

SkyShroud.2865:

How can that be? Scaling in open world is fair because every single player is subjected to it. How do you suggest it to apply to guild hall in a way that doesn’t discriminate and selectively subject guilds.

Are there not tiers for guild size already? Capturing a guild hall could be scaled to accommodate any amount of players that fit in that tier.

If a 200-player guild can only get 10 people together to do it then that guild may have too many inactive players and need to downsize.

GreyWolf.8670:

SkyShroud.2865:

How can that be? Scaling in open world is fair because every single player is subjected to it. How do you suggest it to apply to guild hall in a way that doesn’t discriminate and selectively subject guilds.

Are there not tiers for guild size already? Capturing a guild hall could be scaled to accommodate any amount of players that fit in that tier.

If a 200-player guild can only get 10 people together to do it then that guild may have too many inactive players and need to downsize.

It is about scaling of guild hall cost and not open-world conquest scaling. Even the guild hall expedition scaling is kitten bad, a 80-men guild hall expedition is hell lot more difficult than a 5-men guild hall expedition, the server can’t handle a 80-men without crashing either.

Also, why should one pay more for something others pay less to obtain? Giving you a realistic scenario, there are two houses side by side each other and both are exactly the same in functionalities but one is twice the price of the other. Are you gonna buy the pricey one or the cheaper one?

Yeah, I quit. Gave away 400g and dont see myself playing anymore.

I bought HOT after a few weeks thinking ‘it cant be as bad as people say it is’.

But it is.

Its really sad, I loved GW2, it was my go to game.

Now I log in and just stand there and… just cant be bothered to do anything. Wait for one of the meta events? Wvw?

Most of them are usually dead…. so theres nothing. I havent even seen Dragon stand because it is always empty. And it has a timer for some reason….. I mean they actually went backward in design from silverwastes. And that goes for most maps.

Dont care for raiding or esports (Blizzard tried to make wow an esport and failed, you cant beat blizzard ANet)

Its gotten so bad I am actually thinking of going to ff14 or wow again >.>

This expansion was clearly rushed. To me its summed up by the flyer. You enter the map and have one…. you just have one. A flyer built into you. No quest to get it, nothing fun to unlock it.

And the ones you do have to unlock are just stuck behind ‘mastery’ time sinks. The thing about metroid and co is that you have fun unlocking the abilities, you go through a dungeon and learn how to use a new abilitiy and it unlocks more stuff for you to do in the world.

You dont just open up a menu and hit a button when a bar goes ding.

I could write an essay on all the problems with this expansion. And it would probably be cathartic, but whatever, I accept that the game is no longer for me, and I doubt Anet would care about the feedback, because they clearly dont listen to people. (See wvw)

SkyShroud.2865:

It is about scaling of guild hall cost and not open-world conquest scaling.

The question still stands: how are you going to scale guild hall costs? Based on what?

SkyShroud.2865:

Also, why should one pay more for something others pay less to obtain?

Exactly… I stand to pay a LOT more over a much longer period of time than anyone in a big guild and get the same exact freaking house. /middlefinger in my face

Dejavu.2349:

SkyShroud.2865:

Also, why should one pay more for something others pay less to obtain?

Exactly… I stand to pay a LOT more over a much longer period of time than anyone in a big guild and get the same exact freaking house. /middlefinger in my face

No you pay exactly as much as the 500 people over there for the exact same house, just becouse you decide to do it alone instead of with 499 other people dont make you pay more then them.

Dejavu.2349:

SkyShroud.2865:

Also, why should one pay more for something others pay less to obtain?

Exactly… I stand to pay a LOT more over a much longer period of time than anyone in a big guild and get the same exact freaking house. /middlefinger in my face

Do you honestly believe that in a guild of 500 complete strangers there will be more than let’s say 20-50 people who will actually actively contribute to the Guild Hall? If yes then you are wrong, the bigger the guild, the lower the percentage of active contributors. On the other hand a family guild of 10 that all know each other in real life will probably all contribute towards the Guild Hall in some way. And there you have the main problem with any solution based on guild size.

I’m not saying the current situation is good. But I’d rather have a solution that solves the problems without creating an even worse situation, where the admin team of a big guild will have to pay an even greater amount of resources to level a guild hall, or create not-fun policing rules for the guild that can cause all other manners of problems.

It’s like everyone thinks that in a big guild every member is completely loyal to said guild and they spread the burden of guild hall leveling evenly. So in an example, let’s say a guild hall requires 5000gold. In the minds of some players, that means that a guild of 500 will split the 5000gold among them so each pay 10 gold to have a full guild hall. On the other hand, in a guild of 10 they will have to pay 500 gold each for the same result. Well sadly that’s not how reality works.

Linken.6345:

Dejavu.2349:

SkyShroud.2865:

Also, why should one pay more for something others pay less to obtain?

Exactly… I stand to pay a LOT more over a much longer period of time than anyone in a big guild and get the same exact freaking house. /middlefinger in my face

No you pay exactly as much as the 500 people over there for the exact same house, just becouse you decide to do it alone instead of with 499 other people dont make you pay more then them.

I said than any of them… not than all of them. HUGE difference. I’m not in a big guild and refuse to feign interest just to use them for buffs I should be able to get reasonably in my own small guild. It’s the principle of the thing. Thanks for the bump!

maddoctor.2738:

Do you honestly believe that in a guild of 500 complete strangers there will be more than let’s say 20-50 people who will actually actively contribute to the Guild Hall? If yes then you are wrong, the bigger the guild, the lower the percentage of active contributors. On the other hand a family guild of 10 that all know each other in real life will probably all contribute towards the Guild Hall in some way. And there you have the main problem with any solution based on guild size.

I’m not saying the current situation is good. But I’d rather have a solution that solves the problems without creating an even worse situation, where the admin team of a big guild will have to pay an even greater amount of resources to level a guild hall, or create not-fun policing rules for the guild that can cause all other manners of problems.

It’s like everyone thinks that in a big guild every member is completely loyal to said guild and they spread the burden of guild hall leveling evenly. So in an example, let’s say a guild hall requires 5000gold. In the minds of some players, that means that a guild of 500 will split the 5000gold among them so each pay 10 gold to have a full guild hall. On the other hand, in a guild of 10 they will have to pay 500 gold each for the same result. Well sadly that’s not how reality works.

Clearly you haven’t been reading my comments…
That sounds about right. But 20-50 people actively contributing anything is multitudes more than 2-3… for 2 people to put together the reasonable mat donations of 20 people is pretty crazy.

I’ve stated numerous times in this thread that there are a lot of freeloaders in big guilds… The fact that those freeloaders have the same access as I will after however many years it will take me to gather all the requisite mats is one of the things that kittenes me off. NOBODY (not a single person in this thread anyway) thinks each person in a 500 person or 5 person guild is going to donate the same amount. What I said was that I stand to donate a veritable crapton more than anyone in a big guild – even the biggest contributor. Maybe using a different word would be more clear?

…more than any individual in a Big guild. Not sure why clarification was needed, but there ya go.

Dejavu.2349:

Not sure why clarification was needed, but there ya go.

Then what’s the solution? It’s good to identify a problem before moving to fix it, however I haven’t seen yet a valid solution to the current problem. I even asked how other games did it, because according to some posters “other games have been doing it for 10 years”, yet I haven’t seen a solid answer yet.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Devata.6589:

Draygo.9473:

Devata.6589:

Draygo.9473:

Swift.1930:

Draygo.9473:

Nury.3062:

I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!

It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.

They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.

Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:

1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.

But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.

(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)

Let me clarify, because I think you missed it.

Your guilds cap would be lowered to the lowest tier that it can support.

Meaning that if your guild is at capacity there is no change, if you are in a guild with 5 people but for some reason raised your cap to 500 people it would be lowered to the lowest tier, 50 people.

More examples:

Guild of 10 people, with a cap of 200, cap lowered to 50.
Guild of 55 people cap of 100, cap is unchanged
guild of 120 people cap of 500, cap is lowered to 200.

How costs are adjusted, there are 6 tiers of guilds. Cost is adjusted based on your cap after your cap is lowered to the appropriate amount.
So a Tier 1 guild (50 member cap) has to pay 1/6th of the cost of an upgrade to get it. Favor and the time gate Aetherium costs stay the same no matter what tier your guild is.

Due to this time gate, large guilds are still better off just paying for each upgrade. Especially when you consider for a 500 member guild, even for the most expensive upgrades you are looking at each member contributing 1-3 items per upgrade.

Compared to a small guild that has to pay 500, 1500 items per upgrade.

If you want when a guild increases its cap you can increase the fee to do that.

So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.

And its totally ok that smaller guilds currently have to pay way more per player?

I am not against smaller guilds having to spend a bit more effort per person, but the current effort required to earn what we previously earned is way too kitten high.

No, they do not have to pay way more per player. Imho you are looking at it wrongly.

A big company needs a bigger building with more facilities. A smaller company needs a smaller building with less facilities.

As a smaller guild you might not want to try to get to level 40 and get the guild-expansion. You also might not want to get the Warroom, the Workshop, the Tavern and the Arena all fully upgraded but you might only want to go for the Warroom, or only for the Workshop of only those two (Depending on the size and the preferences). Or maybe you want to go for them all but not get them all completely upgraded.

That should be your goal as a smaller guild, just as a smaller company go’s for a smaller building with less facilities. The cost per member would then be the same.

The problem is, you basically are the small company but want the biggest building, with all possible facilities and then complain that it’s too expensive.

About losing what you had, I agree that that is sort of bad. I can understand it, but I agree it’s not ideal.

Except you have no choice other than be a small guild wanting a big hall and all that goes with it.. because there are no other options to have it smaller.
The costs per member are significantly different based on what ANET have pushed out.
Your argument would stand up if there were options on what size hall could be acquired.. which in turn designates what can be upgraded with effort/cost balanced against what a larger guild would require to take on that larger facility.

As it stands there is no choice, no scaling and therefore no comparable effort/cost between the sizes of guilds, its merely a way to forced a money sink and materials sink through the game.

Like I said, many times before. What I do agree on is to lower the required level.
They you do have a choice. You can then decide to go for only the Warroom, or for all elements, but only to tier 1. In that way you effectively have a smaller (less options) guild-hall.

The only problem there now is, is that those level requirements, force you to also take upgrades you might not want.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.

Why? It would supply the same options as a smaller guild, that’s true, but it would supply them to a larger number of players. To me it seems normal that it would cost more.
If you cook a dinner for 50 people, it requires greater quantities of ingredients than one made for 5 people – even if the dinner in question is exactly the same. The current HoT guild hall system seems to think however, that a dinner for anything less than 500 people just won’t do for any of those groups. Which, when you think about it, is ridiculous.

You are right there, cooking dinner to 50 people cost more than to 5 and you might even need a lager table. However you can prepare it in the same kitchen. But the dinner part is already in place.

For example, you can now unlock a mini vendor (that would be the kitchen in the example). That however does not give out free mini’s (mini’s would be the food) to everybody, it only gives the ability to get them (and this is true for most guild-hall unlocks). Members still have to buy those mini’s and so 50 members all buying the mini’s do in fact spend more than 5.

Of course you could focus on the size of the table, and it might have been ideal if there was also a smaller hall available where everything would be smaller (but that would also mean the vendor would have less mini’s available.. not sure if you would want that) and also cost less. But that would mean much more development-time and people would likely be complaining that their mini vendor had less mini’s available as that of big guilds.

No, what you need to focus on is that 5 person dinner still has to prepare enough food and a table big enough to suit 500 people, but still only have 5 people prepare it and eat it.

But you don’t. Lets make the Warroom the kitchen of the company that makes the food for it’s employee’s.

You don’t have to upgrade the Warroom completely, you can also go for only completing the first tier. Then you have less food, ens less variation in food that you can buy at the restaurant. (Just as you see that with smaller vs bigger companies).

You then also have to pay less to get this smaller version of the Warroom / prepare less food.

Devata.6589:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.

Why? It would supply the same options as a smaller guild, that’s true, but it would supply them to a larger number of players. To me it seems normal that it would cost more.
If you cook a dinner for 50 people, it requires greater quantities of ingredients than one made for 5 people – even if the dinner in question is exactly the same. The current HoT guild hall system seems to think however, that a dinner for anything less than 500 people just won’t do for any of those groups. Which, when you think about it, is ridiculous.

You are right there, cooking dinner to 50 people cost more than to 5 and you might even need a lager table. However you can prepare it in the same kitchen. But the dinner part is already in place.

For example, you can now unlock a mini vendor (that would be the kitchen in the example). That however does not give out free mini’s (mini’s would be the food) to everybody, it only gives the ability to get them (and this is true for most guild-hall unlocks). Members still have to buy those mini’s and so 50 members all buying the mini’s do in fact spend more than 5.

Of course you could focus on the size of the table, and it might have been ideal if there was also a smaller hall available where everything would be smaller (but that would also mean the vendor would have less mini’s available.. not sure if you would want that) and also cost less. But that would mean much more development-time and people would likely be complaining that their mini vendor had less mini’s available as that of big guilds.

No, what you need to focus on is that 5 person dinner still has to prepare enough food and a table big enough to suit 500 people, but still only have 5 people prepare it and eat it.

But you don’t. Lets make the Warroom the kitchen of the company that makes the food for it’s employee’s.

You don’t have to upgrade the Warroom completely, you can also go for only completing the first tier. Then you have less food, ens less variation in food that you can buy at the restaurant. (Just as you see that with smaller vs bigger companies).

You then also have to pay less to get this smaller version of the Warroom / prepare less food.

how to completely miss the point.. good job.

The simple fact is.. there is no choice in what you can make… no matter what tier you are upgrading, you are upgrading it based on the same oversize…. If ANET had put a n ounce of thought into this process instead of thinking “money sink” then they would of created choices but they didn’t they preferred the one size fits all and screw those that don’t want to become a number in a faceless guild.
The fact you might only be able to go to Warroom 1 and not all the way is irrelevant because to make WR1 you still have the same amount of players trying to build something that requires a ridiculous amount of extra time and effort per player and a heck of a lot more individual cost when compared to a much larger guild.

And please don’t go down the route that poster a few lines back came up with about how it’s so hard for a large guild because it has fewer contributors.. cos that rubbish only tends to highlight.. “recruit anyone and everyone”, poor guild organisation and above all very bad guild leadership.
As for SkyShroud now resorting to “its not fair to scale”… seriously its the fairest way any MMO provides content and features to all… the same way a 100 man zerg should have an event scaled up in order to succeed but scaled down when 10players take on the same thing.. doesn’t mean its easier for any of the groups.. its about striking a balance between time, effort and costs and as it stands, there is no such balance its completely off the scale.

Bloodstealer.5978:

As for SkyShroud now resorting to “its not fair to scale”… seriously its the fairest way any MMO provides content and features to all… the same way a 100 man zerg should have an event scaled up in order to succeed but scaled down when 10players take on the same thing.. doesn’t mean its easier for any of the groups.. its about striking a balance between time, effort and costs and as it stands, there is no such balance its completely off the scale.

How exactly would that scaling work in the game? Got any specific idea aside from “scale is awesome”?

And to be more specific, the first upgrade you must finish for the Guild Hall is called Tavern Restoration 1 which requires the following:

250 Elder Wood Plank
250 Mithril Ingot
50 Bottle of Elonian Wine
10 Empty Keg
50 Glass Mug
20 Obsidian Shard
25 Bolt of Silk
100 Cured Thick Leather Square
10 Bolt of Gossamer
10 Cured Hardened Leather Square
and 100 Favor

Go ahead and “scale it”

maddoctor.2738:

SkyShroud.2865:

It is about scaling of guild hall cost and not open-world conquest scaling.

The question still stands: how are you going to scale guild hall costs? Based on what?

Apparently you didn’t read the other posts, I didn’t suggest scaling, I never think that scaling guild hall cost can be fair in any way. You should read the posts.