Guild Wars 2

Got a few friends interested in Guild Wars 2 back when the 75% sales were going and we were first hearing about HoT. Feels like I tricked them into paying more than they should’ve.

http://siliconangle.com/blog/2015/06/18/new-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-expansion-pre-order-pricing-raises-hackles/

Wow…

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

dervix.9126:

Najten.2418:

I get that the price of the expansion is €44,99, and that the game is included just to avoid the problems you had with for instance a certain other MMO Whose Name Shall Not Be Named which required you to buy core game + 3 expansions to enjoy the 4th expansion…
But how is this fair to those that actually went out and bought GW2 core, in anticipation of HoT? Those that spent €35ish now spent that for “nothing”?
A bundle offer is great, but there should be an “upgrade only” option for those that don’t need the core game.

It was stated that Support would grant HoT to people who recently purchased the game. Probably within like 2 weeks or so, I’m guessing.

The terms are that they get a refund on their current account(only) and receive a blank slate copy of HoT/GW2.

Seriously, that is the offer?

I was guessing they’d just refund the $10-$40 they paid for the core game after they’d applied the HoT upgrade.

ardasica.4531:

Ayrilana.1396:

ardasica.4531:

Still doesn’t explain why we can’t have a fourth package just for the expansion. Not even asking for freebies in it. I just want the ability to just buy the expansion. That’s it.

It’ll just be the same package you see now for $50 but it won’t include the core game.

So? If they are willing to acknowledge that their core game is so screwed up with their attempts to cater to the lowest common denominator that they want to give it away to new players then let them. I just want the expansion.

I realize it is shocking that I’m not demanding huge price cuts or freebies. I’ve only suggested they could make a fourth offering of the expansion at $40 but if they want to keep it at $50 I would be fine with it. As long as it is packaged with the core game though, not happening.

Well they can make another standard edition that doesn’t include the core game. It’ll still be $50. What you need to realize is that companies to various promotions through the life cycle of a product. Most notable are the GOTY editions which often contain all of the expansion with the core game at a reduced cost. There’s also nothing stopping players wanting the same deal from buying the current bundle and then not linking it to their account. They’d obtain all of the benefits that new players get.

I also forgot to mention that it has nothing to do about the condition of the game. Some companies do promotions where they take a loss in order to get increased gains elsewhere. You see this often in supermarkets where they reduce the price of some items dramatically in order to spur increased sales. You know, like if they made hot dog bun packs 50 cents which would then increase the sale of hot dogs.

I was actually looking to buy HoT until I saw the price for it. That cause me to reconsider whether it was worth it. So far the new pve territory seems somewhat low for any expansion regardless of price.

The elite specializations didn’t appeal to me either. I play ranger and thief. Ranger is getting staff (which I think is probably the least useful possible. I kept hoping for a 1h power main weapon like dagger to get rid of the clumsy sword jumping) and thief isn’t even announced yet.

So it seems to me that the price was just a large sum for something I would not use (ranger elite spec) and something I didn’t yet know what would be (thief elite), as well as maps I had no idea of the quality of.

I generally have no problem with pre-purchase. But I’m very concerned about seeing a pre-purchase that doesn’t state what exactly you’re getting (maps, elite specs …) and doesn’t state a release time either.
At a lower price, I might have taken the bait. But as it is, there’s no way I can feel good about buying it. 50D is too much to throw at something that is not clearly defined.

Penguin.7906:

Got a few friends interested in Guild Wars 2 back when the 75% sales were going and we were first hearing about HoT. Feels like I tricked them into paying more than they should’ve.

trust me on this one, you’re not alone. what’s worse is I know those people and have to look ’em in the eye. bestest – feeling – evah! thanks anet for the unforgetable experience.

Blanche Neige.7241:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

In marketing, what you say is irrelevant.

What matters is what potential customers perceive from what you said.

And clearly, people perceive that they are buying the core game a second time when they buy HoT. You have 3000+ messages posted in the last 24 hours or so in this thread that proves it.

You may say the contrary as much as you want. Your message is not going to pass through.

If you ( meaning Anet) don’t modify your positions, it may hurt you (meaning Anet) a lot in the long term.

Again, gotta chime in here. It’s more than perception.

They did NOT set a price tag and then say, “Oh you know what would be nice…”

That never happened.

They considered potential cash flows from offering the TWO products bundled and unbundled and chose bundled based on math.

If you “Perceive” that you are buying the original game all over again, it’s because, you are! You may not be paying full price for it, but I can assure you, you are paying something to the pot to make it cheaper for new players while maintaining Anet’s total revenue goal.

Or at least that was how it was supposed to work out, but Anet never did seem to get beyond the spreadsheet when making this call…

AND WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKE!

mrstealth.6701:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

dervix.9126:

Najten.2418:

I get that the price of the expansion is €44,99, and that the game is included just to avoid the problems you had with for instance a certain other MMO Whose Name Shall Not Be Named which required you to buy core game + 3 expansions to enjoy the 4th expansion…
But how is this fair to those that actually went out and bought GW2 core, in anticipation of HoT? Those that spent €35ish now spent that for “nothing”?
A bundle offer is great, but there should be an “upgrade only” option for those that don’t need the core game.

It was stated that Support would grant HoT to people who recently purchased the game. Probably within like 2 weeks or so, I’m guessing.

The terms are that they get a refund on their current account(only) and receive a blank slate copy of HoT/GW2.

Seriously, that is the offer?

I was guessing they’d just refund the $10-$40 they paid for the core game after they’d applied the HoT upgrade.

Yup: http://i.imgur.com/zPywVMI.png

lukejoe.1592:

Blanche Neige.7241:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

In marketing, what you say is irrelevant.

What matters is what potential customers perceive from what you said.

And clearly, people perceive that they are buying the core game a second time when they buy HoT. You have 3000+ messages posted in the last 24 hours or so in this thread that proves it.

You may say the contrary as much as you want. Your message is not going to pass through.

If you ( meaning Anet) don’t modify your positions, it may hurt you (meaning Anet) a lot in the long term.

Again, gotta chime in here. It’s more than perception.

They did NOT set a price tag and then say, “Oh you know what would be nice…”

That never happened.

They considered potential cash flows from offering the TWO products bundled and unbundled and chose bundled based on math.

If you “Perceive” that you are buying the original game all over again, it’s because, you are! You may not be paying full price for it, but I can assure you, you are paying something to the pot to make it cheaper for new players well maintaining Anet’s total revenue goal.

Or at least that was how it was supposed to work out, but Anet never did seem to get beyond the spreadsheet when making this call…

AND WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKE!

No veteran player should have to “Chip in” to float new players a free copy of vanilla. Didn’t happen with EoTN, shouldn’t happen here.
No veteran player should have to pay retroactively for content “Freely” given between launch and HoT.
No new Player should have to pay retroactively for prior content that they’ll never see without paying for it again. (Living story)
Nobody buying any expansion ever should then have to pay again be it in real money, or time investment to grind for gold>gems>slot.

Would you buy a new car whose seats were a paid optional extra?

Alexxander.8306:

Nice try Anet.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/False+Advertising

“Proof Requirement
To establish that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things:

(1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser’s own or another person’s goods, services, or commercial activity; (FAQ said “BUY GW2 NOW!! U NEED IT FOR EXPANSHUN!!”)

(2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (Anyone during the time the FAQ was active)

(3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience;
(Do I even need to explain this one again?)

(4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and
(Not relevant afaik)

(5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement’s potential to injure a customer. [I]The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. [/I] False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.

You are going to armchair-lawyer it up with elements of a federal criminal statute? Meaning prosecution is done by the federal government and not individuals. Furthermore, you are also saying that element 4 does not apply when ALL the elements of a statute has to be met to be guilty of said crime? (Seriously, you could have at minimum said that buying the game gives you access to the Anet servers which are located in a different state, and it would thus count as an interstate service.)

But let’s humor you and overlook the fact that the elements are for a federal criminal statute and you basically said the 4th element has not been met. So ignoring your irrelevant editorializing of what you think the faq said and actually quoting the previous version of the faq,

“Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion? A: Yes. Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is an expansion to Guild Wars 2 and not a stand-alone campaign, and therefore it requires the base game to play.”

It looks like the answer is yes, you need to own GW2 to play the expansion. And unless you know something about the HoT code that we do not, it looks like that is true. So therefore, no false statement of fact has been made.

Addressing your editorializing about having to buy the game, there is nothing about having to buy GW2 before HoT. Yes, it says you have to own the game, but you can buy GW2 later or at the same time or have the nice people of Anet give it to you free for buying HoT.

Now, if you still feel like a crime has been committed, you can contact the US attorney general or your state attorney general (because your state probably has some false advertising laws too).

MashMash.1645:

Except, it seems they are not – http://imgur.com/zPywVMI | http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a95r8/to_those_who_said_anet_will_support_people_who/

It’s confusing because in another reddit thread you have an ANet rep saying they will, as you noted.

Also, as regards HoT, the whole 30 days thing is somewhat sketchy, as ANet have been pushing sales since the xpac was announced, several months back – which is when they stated you needed to first buy the base game. So, if refunds or upgrades are going to be offered, it should be anyone who bought the game after that date, thinking they needed it – but actually didn’t.

I have no words….

In what universe is that considered acceptable to any degree? Not only is it negating any progress and work they’ve done….but it’s essentially stealing any gem purchases they have made.

This surpasses anything that even EA has done.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

One of the first things they teach us in economics is that there’s no such thing as a free lunch.
If a restaurant offers lunch for free, then more than likely they’ve raised the price of their drinks.

So even though Anet is offering the core game for free, it is more than likely that the price of the expansion was raised as a result.

Nice try.

Jski.6180:

Its free with the purchase of HoT. Did you buy HoT yes or no? If yes then you get ONE free copy (mostly to help get new ppl to play it) if no then you do not get it. Look at free shipping / handling with the purchase of a good dose this mean that its free to have you send any thing you want even if you did not buy the good that you must to get this “deal?”

Why do i get the feeling ppl are spending way too much time in the video game world and seemed to have caused them to lose all perception with real world economics.

You need to research the definition of free, if you cannot access/play/get something without spending money, it is no longer free.

It’s like saying the Revenant is free, your paying for the other parts of the game but not the Revenant.

When it shows up in the Gem Shop or on the web site shop with a price of $0.00 then it will be free.

Also so many people are using the word entitled like it’s a negative in this context.

I do feel entitled. It’s my $50 and they want it! What part of that says I’m not entitled?

First let’s look at advertisement. A large majority of the hype was built in-game from what can only be their existing player base. In my opinion expansions don’t really have the saleability of a stand-alone game. In this respect ANET is already starting on the back foot they are trying to market their game to people with the original game, but they know they need new players to continue to make desirable profits, hence the free game. The problem starts with the assumption that new-players would even be interested in pre-purchasing an expansion without information, reviews or anything of substance to convince them it’s worth the money. The only people willing to buy a pre-purchase edition of HoT would be people with prior experience i.e. existing players.

So if we look at the pricing, and leave out the free gw2 copy, one basic edition of HoT is US$50. If we use the base game as a unit then the Deluxe is 1.5 and the Ultimate is 2. They were assuming people would see the Deluxe and Ultimate packages as a good deal therefore making more from buyers.  So in their eyes 2 buyers could potential earn them twice the value of the base edition, if both went Ultimate. This would make up for, what I’m guessing is comparatively low sales of a pre-purchase version compared to the full release. But this relies on the buyer demographic – people who are willing to buy pre-release versions of a game – i.e. existing players. I might add that players are now more likely to begrudingly purchase a base version in protest of the insult to existing games.

New players are more likely to look at reviews, ratings, and posts by people playing the game to make their decisions – this all occurs after release. So onto my question; who is your marketing leader, and why the hell did they obliterate your chances of making decent money? 

mrstealth.6701:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

dervix.9126:

Najten.2418:

I get that the price of the expansion is €44,99, and that the game is included just to avoid the problems you had with for instance a certain other MMO Whose Name Shall Not Be Named which required you to buy core game + 3 expansions to enjoy the 4th expansion…
But how is this fair to those that actually went out and bought GW2 core, in anticipation of HoT? Those that spent €35ish now spent that for “nothing”?
A bundle offer is great, but there should be an “upgrade only” option for those that don’t need the core game.

It was stated that Support would grant HoT to people who recently purchased the game. Probably within like 2 weeks or so, I’m guessing.

The terms are that they get a refund on their current account(only) and receive a blank slate copy of HoT/GW2.

Seriously, that is the offer?

I was guessing they’d just refund the $10-$40 they paid for the core game after they’d applied the HoT upgrade.

Wait, what if they spent money in the gemstore? Are they basically saying a new player who just bought the game in the last month has to burn any cash they spent on gems with no compensation or otherwise take the $10-40 hit from buying the game? That is disgusting if its true.

ardasica.4531:

You see this often in supermarkets where they reduce the price of some items dramatically in order to spur increased sales. You know, like if they made hot dog bun packs 50 cents which would then increase the sale of hot dogs.

They don’t usually offer items on sale and then proceed to offer them for free, however. This is more like, hot dog bun packs are 50 cents, but the hot dogs aren’t ready yet (you’re still gonna need a bun per our FAQ). You can lick your bun while you wait. Fast forward a month, now hot dogs are available, and buns are free!

mrstealth.6701:

MashMash.1645:

Except, it seems they are not – http://imgur.com/zPywVMI | http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a95r8/to_those_who_said_anet_will_support_people_who/

It’s confusing because in another reddit thread you have an ANet rep saying they will, as you noted.

Also, as regards HoT, the whole 30 days thing is somewhat sketchy, as ANet have been pushing sales since the xpac was announced, several months back – which is when they stated you needed to first buy the base game. So, if refunds or upgrades are going to be offered, it should be anyone who bought the game after that date, thinking they needed it – but actually didn’t.

I have no words….

In what universe is that considered acceptable to any degree? Not only is it negating any progress and work they’ve done….but it’s essentially stealing any gem purchases they have made.

This surpasses anything that even EA has done.

It’s been stated repeatedly throughout this forum that most likely, this was a fluke copy-pasted response. If you follow up with support, they will probably work with you.

dervix.9126:

mrstealth.6701:

MashMash.1645:

Except, it seems they are not – http://imgur.com/zPywVMI | http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a95r8/to_those_who_said_anet_will_support_people_who/

It’s confusing because in another reddit thread you have an ANet rep saying they will, as you noted.

Also, as regards HoT, the whole 30 days thing is somewhat sketchy, as ANet have been pushing sales since the xpac was announced, several months back – which is when they stated you needed to first buy the base game. So, if refunds or upgrades are going to be offered, it should be anyone who bought the game after that date, thinking they needed it – but actually didn’t.

I have no words….

In what universe is that considered acceptable to any degree? Not only is it negating any progress and work they’ve done….but it’s essentially stealing any gem purchases they have made.

This surpasses anything that even EA has done.

It’s been stated repeatedly throughout this forum that most likely, this was a fluke copy-pasted response. If you follow up with support, they will probably work with you.

I really hope that is the case. But to even make that statement at all is pathetic.

A copy-pasted response is such for a reason. It’s the offical first-line stance the company has. And the standard solution they intend to implement to customers.

Any better response is something the customer has to “fight for”. Something Anet is likely banking on them not doing.

DarksunG.9537:

temerity.7824:

First, $50 is within the mmo industry standard for expansions. That’s just the way it is and anyone who suggests otherwise is completely ignorant about the state of the industry.

That’s just not true anymore. I got wotlk for $40 when it came out. Heavensward is $30 a gmg. & the STO Romulous expansion was free in a f2P game. I think the only one ignorant about the state of the industry is you.

1) WotLK is 7 years old. The times have changed, kid. Modern world of warcraft expansions are $50. See: Warlords of Draenor.

2) Incorrect. Heavensward is a $40 game. See: Square-Enix online store.

Please don’t talk if you are so completely misinformed about what you’re saying.

I think actual numbers should give you an idea as to who is in the minority and who is in the majority here.

Lets first take a look at the official Preorder Advert for HoT.

There are almost double the amount of dislikes as there are likes on the advert.

Does this convey any sort of message to you?

There are all kinds of solutions to the business problem but the ethical one is a little harder to deal with.

Business wise sell it for $50 and if you have an existing core gw2 account applying the keycode to your account unlocks 2 character slots (or 1 character slot and 800 gems or something like that) and the expansion content. If you don’t have the core game already installed you get it and the expansion and the normal 5 character slots.

Cross-posting a relevant post from my server forum’s thread on the issue:

“The price point is not an issue for me. Therefore arguments focusing on “value per dollar” are not relevant.

For me, the big problem is that for a very long time ANET’s GW2 FAQ stated in plain language that you would need to already have the base game to play HoT. Throughout these many months ANET held several sales for their base game. Since the FAQ plainly stated you would need the base game to play HoT, many people purchased the game during these sales. Some, myself included, purchased a few copies of the game to give to RL friends, other new players liked what they saw of the expansion and decided to buy the base game for themselves.

That brings us to the present, where ANET has done an about-face and decided that HoT will include the base game. Following this announcement they quietly update their FAQ to say that HoT will include the base game, without acknowledging that the information in it was wrong. People almost immediately catch the change to the FAQ, and then you have this outcry. ANET’s initial response (their tone seems to have improved since) was to brush off our concerns with flippant comments about how “this will be the only version of HoT, FYI” (they really can’t be bothered to give enough time to our concerns to write out a full sentence in reply?), and the changes to the FAQ were just an “honest mistake.”

To make things worse, as it currently stands if you buy a copy of HoT and you already own the base game, you do not actually get another CD-key for the base game! So you’re already getting a deal worse than the deal ANET claims to be making with you, and on top of that if you’re out of character slots you need to pay even more (yes, I realize you can delete a character or pay with gold, but that is essentially paying with your time and therefore definitely not free) to get a character slot to play the new profession.

Oh, but you say I’ve been getting a good deal all this time? Well, I agree. That’s why for years now I have expressed my loyalty and rewarded them by buying gems. I also agree that when an expansion is on the horizon it is time to demonstrate loyalty; time for the developer to demonstrate loyalty to the long-term fans! This expansion will make significant changes to the professions and many game effects (movement/leap abilities, how conditions work, etc.). Some have even said that the changes are so vast that it should essentially be called GW3. Thus, it is not unreasonable for current players to be a little worried that ANET might be screwing up a good thing, and by extension it would make sense for ANET to try and shore up our faith by making some gesture of appreciation. Doesn’t have to be a big deal, just something to say “hey, we noticed you’ve been playing our game, and we’re about to make some big changes to it. We know that you might be a bit worried about all the changes, but we’re hoping you stick with us. Either way, we’re pleased to offer you ______ because we appreciate all our customers, not just the new ones.”

Now this “gesture of appreciation” doesn’t have to be a big thing, doesn’t have to be a character slot, doesn’t have to be some gems, doesn’t even have to be a skin. It could have been any little thing. What did we get instead? No, no, not nothing; less than nothing, in fact. ANET has straight up penalized their existing customer base by offering us a deal which is objectively worse than that being offered to new people.

In short, one can’t help but worry that ANET has been being duplicitous for months if not years, and that they don’t seem to care about you much once they have your money. That’s fine, they’re not obliged to care about me, but I’m similarly not obliged to keep giving them money. This has already been a great year for games and it is looking to get better; I can and will spend the money that would have gone to ANET elsewhere.

Hopefully they offer us some sort of compromise, and if they do then it is likely I will pick up HoT. However, at this point I just don’t feel comfortable pre-ordering and implicitly rewarding them for behaving in this shady manner."

I really feel like the standard edition should get a new character slot as well, that would solve a whole slew of problems.

jacobocaj.7698:

snip
In short, one can’t help but worry that ANET has been being duplicitous for months if not years, and that they don’t seem to care about you much once they have your money.

As I mentioned many posts ago on this thread, we stood on the steps of the Great Temple Of Balthazar when they first introduced the cash store in GW1 and mused on how the stuff was hella overpriced, and that it was setting a dangerous precedent. Even then we were some of us adults, and not stupid or unwise to the ways of marketing and the psychology therein, especially in regard to setting dangerous financial precedents… Back then, the fanboys called us fools. The same fanboys who’re calling us all fools now.
They’re probably right in one aspect. We still support a company who gave us 2 slots free with the standard exp for GW1, but beg to be given one slot in an exp for GW2 that costs the same sort of money, whilst giving new players a copy of core for free..

oh yeah… thats what i am talking about!!!!!

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I think actual numbers should give you an idea as to who is in the minority and who is in the majority here.

Lets first take a look at the official Preorder Advert for HoT.

There are almost double the amount of dislikes as there are likes on the advert.

Does this convey any sort of message to you?

number no lie…

to all Kisser

As I demonstrated in my previous post, it is clear to see that the majority of people who has seen Anet’s pricing scheme for HoT are unhappy.

So, lets take a look at another phenomenon happening on Youtube.

Popular Youtube streamers who relate with GW2 are receiving monetary rewards for everyone who preorders HoT through referral links.

…but where is this money coming from? This money involved with the deal that Anet struck with all of these youtube streamers has to come from somewhere.

If Arenanet can afford to pay money for referrals and good publicity, perhaps they should have charged less for the expansion and let the general public handle the publicity (I guarantee a lot more people would be saying nice things if the expansion was reasonably priced).

In my honest opinion, Anet knew ahead of time that they were going to receive a huge backlash from the community, and they used popular youtube figures (who relate with gw2) to help justify their gouged prices. …by paying them off.

bubalu.8301:

Alexxander.8306:

Nice try Anet.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/False+Advertising

“Proof Requirement
To establish that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things:

(1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser’s own or another person’s goods, services, or commercial activity; (FAQ said “BUY GW2 NOW!! U NEED IT FOR EXPANSHUN!!”)

(2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (Anyone during the time the FAQ was active)

(3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience;
(Do I even need to explain this one again?)

(4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and
(Not relevant afaik)

(5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement’s potential to injure a customer. [I]The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. [/I] False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.

You are going to armchair-lawyer it up with elements of a federal criminal statute? Meaning prosecution is done by the federal government and not individuals. Furthermore, you are also saying that element 4 does not apply when ALL the elements of a statute has to be met to be guilty of said crime? (Seriously, you could have at minimum said that buying the game gives you access to the Anet servers which are located in a different state, and it would thus count as an interstate service.)

But let’s humor you and overlook the fact that the elements are for a federal criminal statute and you basically said the 4th element has not been met. So ignoring your irrelevant editorializing of what you think the faq said and actually quoting the previous version of the faq,

“Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion? A: Yes. Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is an expansion to Guild Wars 2 and not a stand-alone campaign, and therefore it requires the base game to play.”

It looks like the answer is yes, you need to own GW2 to play the expansion. And unless you know something about the HoT code that we do not, it looks like that is true. So therefore, no false statement of fact has been made.

Addressing your editorializing about having to buy the game, there is nothing about having to buy GW2 before HoT. Yes, it says you have to own the game, but you can buy GW2 later or at the same time or have the nice people of Anet give it to you free for buying HoT.

Now, if you still feel like a crime has been committed, you can contact the US attorney general or your state attorney general (because your state probably has some false advertising laws too).

Looks like Anet’s attorney is in da house. All rise the Kangaroo Court is in session.

’When it shows up in the Gem Shop or on the web site shop with a price of $0.00 then it will be free.

Yes – they are saying its ‘free’ and ‘not free’ at the same time – you cant buy the base game anywhere unless you buy Hot now – if its really free everyone would be able to get a copy that plays the game now – we cant which means the base game isn’t ‘free’ which means quite probably that the base game cost has been absorbed into the cost of Hot.

Either its ‘free’ = everyone gets a copy
It isn’t ‘free’ = Newbies get a copy rolled into the xp, Vets get a copy or something else or a price reduction.

Its not ok for it to be both things at the same time depending on who is looking at the deal.

Unless there is such a thing as Schrodinger’s game bundle…

Threads on the price of HoT are all over, but I wanted to start a new one mainly with a question about the price for NA customers outside the US.

I’m in Canada, where GW2 on release was $60 CAD. The HoT offerings can only be purchased in USD, and given the published exchange rate that puts it at ~$61 CAD for the basic package. Of course, no one ever gets the published exchange rate so the credit company or bank takes a cut, further raising costs for Canadian (and I’m assuming Mexican or South American) customers.

I get it. ANet is a US based company who prices their stuff in USD and exchange rates fluctuate. I understand that CAD is currently weak. That said, effectively asking a price higher than the base game for an expansion is a bit rich. Okay, it’s ridiculously silly.

So my main question is will we see more localized purchasing options for HoT before physical box sales? If so, should I expect a price hike from USD to CAD?

temerity.7824:

DarksunG.9537:

temerity.7824:

First, $50 is within the mmo industry standard for expansions. That’s just the way it is and anyone who suggests otherwise is completely ignorant about the state of the industry.

That’s just not true anymore. I got wotlk for $40 when it came out. Heavensward is $30 a gmg. & the STO Romulous expansion was free in a f2P game. I think the only one ignorant about the state of the industry is you.

1) WotLK is 7 years old. The times have changed, kid. Modern world of warcraft expansions are $50. See: Warlords of Draenor.

2) Incorrect. Heavensward is a $40 game. See: Square-Enix online store.

Please don’t talk if you are so .

Yes, wotlk is old. the original Zelda nes game was $80, what’s your point? Being old doesn’t indicate games were cheaper. Yes, Heavensward is $40 at Square-Enix online store. Unfortunately you proved you were “completely misinformed about what you’re saying” with that: http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/18/final-fantasy-xiv-heavensward-25-off-as-early-access-about-to-fire-up/

& I love how you ignored STO’s 2 free expansions in a f2P game or NWO’s 2 free expansions in a f2P. Kid.

I know you’re a fan knight, but try to make it a little less obvious. You may want to take your own advice about not talking.

i came here for the comments

Deli.1302:

papry.8096:

This is what Anet propose to people that ask for an HoT upgrade when they bought GW2 before the FAQ ninja update.

Wow that is pretty pathetic of Anet.

1)Say that the core game is required to play the expansion
2)New players buy core game in preparation for HoT
3)Anet announces pre-purchase and adds core game in for free, meaning those new players have just wasted money buying the core game
4)Anet ninja changes the faq, but doesn’t change the part of the faq about the price(suspicious)
5)Now new players who bought the core game before are forced to lose all the progress they have made, gems they’ve purchased, and the link they made to their gw1 account if they wanna play HoT

Precisely! New players such as myself, purchased 2 copies of the game (for myself and girlfriend) and have spent $30 on the gem store (2 additional character slots and exchange for some gold to set up our own guild and buy larger bags) thus far, and are then “rewarded” for preparing for the expansion by being given the option of getting a refund to lose all progress or pay an exorbitant expansion price?

Sorry Anet, even though we are both thoroughly enjoying the game, we won’t be buying the expansion at this price nor will we get shafted by the refund on offer. If you want to increase sales, you aren’t going the right way about it.

dervix.9126:

mrstealth.6701:

MashMash.1645:

Except, it seems they are not – http://imgur.com/zPywVMI | http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a95r8/to_those_who_said_anet_will_support_people_who/

It’s confusing because in another reddit thread you have an ANet rep saying they will, as you noted.

Also, as regards HoT, the whole 30 days thing is somewhat sketchy, as ANet have been pushing sales since the xpac was announced, several months back – which is when they stated you needed to first buy the base game. So, if refunds or upgrades are going to be offered, it should be anyone who bought the game after that date, thinking they needed it – but actually didn’t.

I have no words….

In what universe is that considered acceptable to any degree? Not only is it negating any progress and work they’ve done….but it’s essentially stealing any gem purchases they have made.

This surpasses anything that even EA has done.

It’s been stated repeatedly throughout this forum that most likely, this was a fluke copy-pasted response. If you follow up with support, they will probably work with you.

It’s not a fluke. Here is a response from an actual person who clearly says the entire account is terminated, including gems or a linked HoM with no refund. http://i.imgur.com/zPywVMI.png

Does anyone have a petition going? Would that do anything?

jacobocaj.7698:

To make things worse, as it currently stands if you buy a copy of HoT and you already own the base game, you do not actually get another CD-key for the base game! So you’re already getting a deal worse than the deal ANET claims to be making with you

This is a really succinct point and I think crucial to why so many of us are upset. Essentially two people could buy the same package: one new player and one veteran player, but each will receive different amounts of content… for the exact same price. This is patently unfair, and asking those of us who already have the game to move on and “nothing to see here” with excuses about how the game is F2P and how much content we all received and to be more grateful only obfuscates this point: two different people will pay $50 for the same package and receive different things.

It just boggles my mind that they’re going to get away with that, and there’s nothing we can do about it. It’s astonishing the level of arrogance, really.

Amroth.2170:

jacobocaj.7698:

To make things worse, as it currently stands if you buy a copy of HoT and you already own the base game, you do not actually get another CD-key for the base game! So you’re already getting a deal worse than the deal ANET claims to be making with you

This is a really succinct point and I think crucial to why so many of us are upset. Essentially two people could by the same package: one new player and one veteran player, but each will receive different amounts of content… for the exact same price. This is patently unfair, and asking those of us who already have the game to move on and “nothing to see here” with excuses about how the game is F2P and how much content we all received and to be more grateful only obfuscates this point: two different people will pay $50 for the same package and receive different things.

It just boggles my mind that they’re going to get away with that, and there’s nothing we can do about it. It’s astonishing the level of arrogance, really.

I’m pretty sure that’s false advertisement. Especially when it says includes.
Listing a product bundle then not delivering the full bundle I believe falls under fraud also.

NecroN.8306:

bubalu.8301:

Alexxander.8306:

Nice try Anet.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/False+Advertising

“Proof Requirement
To establish that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things:

(1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser’s own or another person’s goods, services, or commercial activity; (FAQ said “BUY GW2 NOW!! U NEED IT FOR EXPANSHUN!!”)

(2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (Anyone during the time the FAQ was active)

(3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience;
(Do I even need to explain this one again?)

(4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and
(Not relevant afaik)

(5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement’s potential to injure a customer. [I]The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. [/I] False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.

You are going to armchair-lawyer it up with elements of a federal criminal statute? Meaning prosecution is done by the federal government and not individuals. Furthermore, you are also saying that element 4 does not apply when ALL the elements of a statute has to be met to be guilty of said crime? (Seriously, you could have at minimum said that buying the game gives you access to the Anet servers which are located in a different state, and it would thus count as an interstate service.)

But let’s humor you and overlook the fact that the elements are for a federal criminal statute and you basically said the 4th element has not been met. So ignoring your irrelevant editorializing of what you think the faq said and actually quoting the previous version of the faq,

“Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion? A: Yes. Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is an expansion to Guild Wars 2 and not a stand-alone campaign, and therefore it requires the base game to play.”

It looks like the answer is yes, you need to own GW2 to play the expansion. And unless you know something about the HoT code that we do not, it looks like that is true. So therefore, no false statement of fact has been made.

Addressing your editorializing about having to buy the game, there is nothing about having to buy GW2 before HoT. Yes, it says you have to own the game, but you can buy GW2 later or at the same time or have the nice people of Anet give it to you free for buying HoT.

Now, if you still feel like a crime has been committed, you can contact the US attorney general or your state attorney general (because your state probably has some false advertising laws too).

Looks like Anet’s attorney is in da house. All rise the Kangaroo Court is in session.

If you look at #4, it’s pretty clear that there was redacted text. The “not relevant” remark seems to apply to that redacted text. Since it is fairly obvious that all of Anet’s customers do not reside in Oregon, interstate trade laws most definitely do apply.

As for the claim made in the original version of the FAQ, there is no mention made of HoT purchases including GW2. The heavily implied intent of the text is that a previous, separate purchase is required. This where #3 comes in; “has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience”. This establishes that even implied false information in a manner that might deceive is enough to consider the company guilty of false advertisement.

Scenario #whatever.

Old day 1 GW1 player who got GWAMM but then was called away from ever buying GW2 comes back in aw, I dunno, let’s call it the last 30 days or so. Because they saw all the hype about the exp and it re-ignited their fire for the realm…

Anyway..

They buy a GW2 account, because the FAQ said they had to have it to get the EXP and they link their GW1 account to it, because hey, HoM right? They then notice they’re a bit short on slots and bank space, they were after all a pretty leet GW1 player, they’re not new to this rodeo, just abridged…
SO.
The ninja FAQ thing, the tie-in, they realize they have to lose the account with GWAMM, with the extras, everything.

EVERYTHING

Tell me again that it’s fair. Tell me again that it’s the price they pay. I know that it’s a bit of a scenario, but it’s a big world. There’s a lot of players. Variables.

I guarantee this will or has already happened, probably even to old guildies of mine if I’m not wrong…Bugger. Hadn’t even thought of that.

NecroN.8306:

Looks like Anet’s attorney is in da house. All rise the Kangaroo Court is in session.

Someone else already accused me of working for Anet so do you guys have some inside knowledge about a future job offer from Anet to me? Because that would be most excellent.

And thanks for recognizing my mad armchair-lawyering skills.

Next, lets look at how absurd the logic behind this pricing method is.

Anet has lost a little less than 1/2 of their potential profits by charging $50 for the basic version of HoT instead of $30.

For every one person that would have paid $50, there are easily two people who would have happily paid $30.

$30 x2 = 60

60 > 50

Veteran players would still need a character slot, but $10 more after only having spent $30 and there would be a small fraction of the complaints about buying another slot.
$30+$10 = $40
$40 vs $50

$40 = HoT + Character slot.
vs
$50 = Only HoT

And again…. for every one happy there are two unhappy…. so
$40 × 2 = $80
$80 > $50

And on top of all of that….
They could have still used the $50 for the bundle of the original game + HoT idea specifically for new players, and they would sell that package all day long.

It literally doesn’t even make sense for Anet to keep the price at $50 without a character slot after they have seen the backlash.

At this point, $40 w/char slot ($30 w/o) is obviously the best method for us AND for Anet.

Not feeling as if the expansion has shown $50 worth of content. That coupled with the fact that by buying it I will not get a character slot and instead will get Guild Wars 2 for free (which I already have) and that does no good for me. If nothing is done to remedy this I cannot see myself getting this expansion until it is on sale for $10.

Cheers Arena-Net, I was really looking forward to getting back into the game with this expansion and instead you have basically lost a customer over this.

Mada.5319:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

One of the first things they teach us in economics is that there’s no such thing as a free lunch.
If a restaurant offers lunch for free, then more than likely they’ve raised the price of their drinks.

So even though Anet is offering the core game for free, it is more than likely that the price of the expansion was raised as a result.

Nice try.

Been trying to inform this uneducated lot about that phrase. Seriously, it seems to me that either ANet had a really stupid moment that lasted 5 months, or they think their player base are a bunch of idiots they can roll over and shake the money out of our pockets.

Also, other than the above stickied Answer, has there been any ANet activity on the forums, social pages, or youtube channel? Seem like they arent doing very good cc, and soon might find themselves in their own self induced down state. This is just, smh, laughably stupid on their part.

Amroth.2170:

It just boggles my mind that they’re going to get away with that, and there’s nothing we can do about it. It’s astonishing the level of arrogance, really.

I have been posting on Reddit and I brought up the same exact point. I was shocked at how many people required an explanation on this, and told me I was being an entitled and spoiled brat. For what?! Asking to be treated equally with someone else who is also paying the same amount as me?

They will not get away with it actually, not on my dime at least. I have two younger brothers and we’ve been playing on/off since the first beta. I bought GW2 for them and now was planning to gift HoT to them. We’ve been excited about this expansion for some time. We buy gems often, and thus the $99 seemed like a really good deal to me. That was $300 that I was comfortable spending because I knew I would get to enjoy the Summer with my brothers. When I noticed that existing players were getting ripped off, I was confused at first. I would have even bit the bullet and gone ahead with this, but when I saw Gaile’s impassive reply, the nonchalant way in which they brushed aside the fact that I was feeling duped. That was it. This is where Gulid Wars & I part ways unless I hear an apology to the community, a nod of appreciation to the loyal veterans, or even just a sympathetic note relays that they understand the fact that we’re feeling deceived. I’m not going to be spending $300 and more time in an atmosphere where my patronage is not valued.

On a side note: I have nothing against GW2 support, they’ve been exceptionally kind to me on the few occasions that I’ve had to deal with them. However, the way they are going about this is just egregious. I feel betrayed by a community in which I’ve invested several hundred dollars + ~1500 hours.

Amroth.2170:

It just boggles my mind that they’re going to get away with that, and there’s nothing we can do about it. It’s astonishing the level of arrogance, really.

I have been posting on Reddit and I brought up the same exact point. I was shocked at how many people required an explanation on this, and told me I was being an entitled and spoiled brat. For what?! Asking to be treated equally with someone else who is also paying the same amount as me?

They will not get away with it actually, not on my dime at least. I have two younger brothers and we’ve been playing on/off since the first beta. I bought GW2 for them and now was planning to gift HoT to them. We’ve been excited about this expansion for some time. We buy gems often, and thus the $99 seemed like a really good deal to me. That was $300 that I was comfortable spending because I knew I would get to enjoy the Summer with my brothers. When I noticed that existing players were getting ripped off, I was confused at first. I would have even bit the bullet and gone ahead with this, but when I saw Gaile’s impassive reply, the nonchalant way in which they brushed aside the fact that I was feeling duped. That was it. This is where Gulid Wars & I part ways unless I hear an apology to the community, a nod of appreciation to the loyal veterans, or even just a sympathetic note relays that they understand the fact that we’re feeling deceived. I’m not going to be spending $300 and more time in an atmosphere where my patronage is not valued.

On a side note: I have nothing against GW2 support, they’ve been exceptionally kind to me on the few occasions that I’ve had to deal with them. However, the way they are going about this is just egregious. I feel betrayed by a community in which I’ve invested several hundred dollars + ~1500 hours.

Not necessarily to complain, to debate, to argue, to flame, to troll, to QQ or to side with either end of the community at the moment. This is just my viewpoint on the HoT expansion, it’s price and the bundle.

First of all, I’m not 100% against the $50 price tag of the expansion for a game that I’ve played for about two and a half years now. I’ve enjoyed well over 1500 hours of game play gotten some rare skins in the game, decked out myself in decent gear, learned the ins and outs of many dungeons and other various aspects of the game. I have dropped money into the cash shop here and there because I love and support the game. However I do feel as though I don’t have enough information to make a good judgement over whether I feel $50 is a fair price for the amount of content we are getting. I realize that this expansion is meant to be more feature based over physical content. I was expecting somewhere in this price range for the expansion ankitten ot too horribly upset over the price. I just feel like there should have been more information released than there has been by now. We have received a lot of silence over the past 6 months while waiting anxiously for more news on when we might even get a slight idea of release date which I don’t even think is going to be until at least 4th quarter of this year if not 2016.

A small issue I’ve had over the past 6 months is the lack of things to keep my attention span. There’s been skins added to the gem store and that’s all fine as I’ve even gotten some of them. I know several people who have come back for the announcement of the expansion but with no estimated time as to when it’ll be released, simply said it wasn’t worth the wait after 6 months and still no estimate and just left again to play other games. Personally I would have liked a little bit of something to keep me amused. Dragon ball was kind of fun but that was way back in January. I would have loved to see Dragon Bash or Super Adventure Box get dusted off. Spirits know that the troops need the morale boost after everything that’s happened so far.

On to the big issue that I’ve seen in the forums lately is the fact that the expansion is bundled with the core game. I see this as a very good thing for new players. I do feel the slight jealousy over them getting the core game for free but I do understand that this is meant to not make the game a huge money wall for a new player. The main money wall I see is in buying the season 2 content for 200 gems per episode or the bundle which I think is $30 (not entirely sure on that one). I do feel like this change has ripped off the players who have bought the game between the announcement of HoT and now seeing as they haven’t really gotten the same experience as those who have had the game for 1-2 years. In all actuality they haven’t gotten any updates or free content at all. I feel they may have very well bought the game at full price of $40 and on top of it spent $x on buying the season 2 content in which I agree this is kind of a slimy tactic for sales. I do see it happen in almost every business but I don’t really agree with this kind of marketing tactic. Also I believe older players feel ripped off because even though this was supposed to be a gift to new players so they don’t have money wall to get old content it makes the old core game seem like it is now completely worthless.

With games in general the value of a game goes down with time whether it be a core game, a bundle or the game simply being for an older system. I don’t feel the veterans should receive something extra. Personally I don’t need a new character slot as I bought one in advance when prepping for HoT release. I have gear waiting for my revenant, tomes waiting to level it and mats to make ascended gear for it when I figure out what kind of build I would like to do. I don’t need gems as I can choose to buy them or work up some gold over a couple of days to buy them. No one seemed upset during 75% off sales for the core game and I feel half of that reason was because it was just a temporary thing. This bundle deal seems like a permanent option which I think is one of the reasons a lot of people are up in arms.

(continued to next post since there is apparently a limit.)

What I feel may smooth over some of that hate is perhaps separate the bundle and give just the expansion as an option for existing accounts for the standard $50 asking price that ANET wants. Have a temporary deal through the duration of current E3 where you buy the upgrade and new accounts get the core game as a free gift to help up the hype. When E3 ends, have the bundle price raise by maybe 5-10 making final price of bundle $55-$60, the standard price of a new game. When announcement of release date comes, have the following weekend as a sale to make the same deal dropping the price of the bundle to $50 where you buy the expansion and get the core game for free for new accounts. Then one more time during the first week of release for HoT.

Personally I feel this would be a fair change to the current pricing. It doesn’t give veterans a reason to feel ripped off since it doesn’t make the core game 100% free. But still leaves room for a very good deal for new players when they see that the expansion by itself is $50. At that point a veteran player can decide for themselves if they feel $50 is worth spending on the information they have so far.

To be completely honest, I really want the expansion but I’m not sure if I’m willing to pay for it just yet.

As said, this is just my veiwpoint and my two cents on what I feel so far about the current debacle. You can choose to agree or disagree but this is where I stand.

bubalu.8301:

NecroN.8306:

Looks like Anet’s attorney is in da house. All rise the Kangaroo Court is in session.

Someone else already accused me of working for Anet so do you guys have some inside knowledge about a future job offer from Anet to me? Because that would be most excellent.

And thanks for recognizing my mad armchair-lawyering skills.

Really? Someone else did? Why would anyone think that? I think you need to go back and look who posted it to make sure!

They should address the issue ASAP and if not. Every single blog entry since the prepurchase is being overshadowed by comments related to this.

What’s the point on telling how cool guild halls are if you have users everywhere leaving comments about the pricing?

It’s everywhere…facebook, twitter, reddit, theses forums, the game itself… and it’’s perfectly normal. People is concerned and wants you to change your mind about that mad pricing tag.
Come on Anet, I know things are not done instantly but you must react before it is too late.