Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

The community manager said 3 or 4 days ago that they’re listening.

Yet still no reponse. To me that’s the equivalent of asking to speak to a supervisor and the attendant saying ‘sure!’ walk off, and never return.

Listening means taking data, having meetings, discussing things and making decisions on a company level. Your analogy is an unfair one. Getting a supervisor takes one person to get one person.

And even then, if you had a supervisor who had nothing to say because this affects company wide policy this supervisor wouldn’t be able to help you anyway.

Patience is a virtue. Governements and companies don’t work on the same time scale individuals do.

Mate, Colin could have said a number of things to calm things down like ’we’re looking into this’. He was on the forums commenting on ascended changes while completely ignoring their forum in an uproar.

Even Gaile could have returned with a status update. This isn’t the 19th century. We can communicate from pretty much everywhere. Saying they’re too busy to even acknowledge from someone with some clout, or keep us up to date simply holds no water.

Vayne.8563:

Seera.5916:

webtoehobbit.4201:

If you think about it, many of us spend a good $50 heck, even $60 on a new game. Take Fallout 4 for example. If they had announced Fallout 4 a day before it released, no one would need to know ANY details about the game because players know Bethesda and they know that they truly deliver on their games. Players trust Bethesda which in turn makes them LOTS of money.

Please don’t speak for me. I need to know what I’m getting when I give a company my hard earned money. I don’t blindly give anyone money.

And you shouldn’t give money to any company blindly, who’s asking you to? I don’t think you should preorder the game if you’re not satisfied with it’s value. But there’s enough info, obviously, for some people to have made up their mind. If you’re not one of them, you’re entitled to wait and make a judgement as more info gets released. So what’s the problem?

OP said if Bethesda announced Fallout 4 the day before release that people wouldn’t need to know any information about it before handing over money. I’ve highlighted the important sentence.

webtoehobbit.4201:

If you think about it, many of us spend a good $50 heck, even $60 on a new game. Take Fallout 4 for example. If they had announced Fallout 4 a day before it released, no one would need to know ANY details about the game because players know Bethesda and they know that they truly deliver on their games. Players trust Bethesda which in turn makes them LOTS of money.

mrstealth.6701:

Cormac.3871:

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

When it was $10, I wasn’t expected to pay for it again.

Now, I’m being asked to pay for it as part of a bundle, and not even kittening get it.

Or to put it another way, you as a veteran shelled out for what the new players are getting for free. And if you purchased the core game 31 days ago, there’s not a kitten thing you can do about it.

gryph.8734:

mrstealth.6701:

Cormac.3871:

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

When it was $10, I wasn’t expected to pay for it again.

Now, I’m being asked to pay for it as part of a bundle, and not even kittening get it.

Or to put it another way, you as a veteran shelled out for what the new players are getting for free. And if you purchased the core game 31 days ago, there’s not a kitten thing you can do about it.

What they are doing to their recent customers that they deceived into paying for the core game is just pathetic. And that “offer” to customers of the past 30 days is just a joke. On top of the fact that anyone accepting that “offer” gets any money they spent on gems stolen from them.

mrstealth.6701:

Cormac.3871:

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

When it was $10, I wasn’t expected to pay for it again.

Now, I’m being asked to pay for it as part of a bundle, and not even kittening get it.

You are not paying for it again. They decided to give it away for free as part of a bundle that doesn’t apply to you if you wish to link it to your existing account. That is something to complain about, but don’t misrepresent it.

Cormac.3871:

mrstealth.6701:

Cormac.3871:

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

When it was $10, I wasn’t expected to pay for it again.

Now, I’m being asked to pay for it as part of a bundle, and not even kittening get it.

You are not paying for it again. They decided to give it away for free as part of a bundle that doesn’t apply to you if you wish to link it to your existing account. That is something to complain about, but don’t misrepresent it.

I’m a bit tired of having to explain this over and over, so I’ll just quote myself from a previous post

It’s a fairly safe assumption to say that the base game is not free. It doesn’t really make any sense to say that Anet, over the course of a single day was willing to change their perceived value of the core game from being $40(or $10) to $0. If they did indeed value their game at $0, they would have no issues with giving that “free” copy to all existing players that buy HoT.
But this is just simply not how business works. Everything has a value, and “free” products have their cost recouped. Included in that $50 is some minimal amount that Anet is willing to sell that product for. And it’s probably lower than it would be if veteran players also got that copy, because all of the vets that pay them $50 are still paying for it yet not getting it.
Anet can claim all they want to that the expansion alone is $50, but they have already stated that we won’t see it sold without the core game. As customers, we have no way of knowing the true price of a product if it is always being sold as a bundle.
It’s no different than buy one, get one free offers. These are products they are already willing to sell at significant discounts, but don’t expect to see that much discount along with the BOGO offer. It’s marketing to create the illusion of a better deal, when in fact BOGO is in fact the same as 50% off.
It’s the same concept stores use when they try to draw you in with lower prices. If they’re undercutting their competitors on a few items, they are making up for that by having higher prices on other items.

And there is also this lovely wikipedia page that someone else linked earlier.

Point being, nothing is free. Everything you receive, no matter how it is offered/claimed/packaged/bundled, is being paid for in some way. Anyone claiming otherwise has no idea how business works.

[edit]Had to use a link shortener because the wiki article shows as a “bad link” on the forums. I think due to the apostrophe in it.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

The community manager said 3 or 4 days ago that they’re listening.

Yet still no reponse. To me that’s the equivalent of asking to speak to a supervisor and the attendant saying ‘sure!’ walk off, and never return.

So interesting thing about that is… A bit later in the week they announced the masteries and the patch that’s happening next week… For some reason that’s taken the pressure off…

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Vayne.8563:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

The community manager said 3 or 4 days ago that they’re listening.

Yet still no reponse. To me that’s the equivalent of asking to speak to a supervisor and the attendant saying ‘sure!’ walk off, and never return.

Listening means taking data, having meetings, discussing things and making decisions on a company level. Your analogy is an unfair one. Getting a supervisor takes one person to get one person.

And even then, if you had a supervisor who had nothing to say because this affects company wide policy this supervisor wouldn’t be able to help you anyway.

Patience is a virtue. Governements and companies don’t work on the same time scale individuals do.

Mate, Colin could have said a number of things to calm things down like ’we’re looking into this’. He was on the forums commenting on ascended changes while completely ignoring their forum in an uproar.

Even Gaile could have returned with a status update. This isn’t the 19th century. We can communicate from pretty much everywhere. Saying they’re too busy to even acknowledge from someone with some clout, or keep us up to date simply holds no water.

There’s no status update until they make a decision. If they decide to do nothing, Colin’s reassurance would add fuel to the fire. This isn’t the 19th century. We live in an age of instant gratification. That’s not Anet’s fault.

If Anet doesn’t know they’re going to do something, they can’t say anything. And they don’t know before those meetings.

A very good article illustrating the point that we don’t know if HoT will be worth the amount we pay for:

“Here’s the thing: we still don’t know a whole lot about the expansion. ArenaNet says that it’s built for repeatable, challenging content, and that the design of the jungle creates more verticality than ever before. But we don’t know how big the expansion will be. When I asked Colin Johanson this, after the expansion was announced, his reply was that ArenaNet wanted to “do a smaller sized area for total scope, and focus really on depth.” Even after a beta weekend, we’re still not fully sure how that depth will manifest.”

http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-players-rightly-upset-by-heart-of-thorns-pre-purchase-scheme/

I made a post in another thread with the same point, but found this article right after that. I’m glad that some members of the press are sympathetic at least.

Vayne.8563:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Vayne.8563:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

The community manager said 3 or 4 days ago that they’re listening.

Yet still no reponse. To me that’s the equivalent of asking to speak to a supervisor and the attendant saying ‘sure!’ walk off, and never return.

Listening means taking data, having meetings, discussing things and making decisions on a company level. Your analogy is an unfair one. Getting a supervisor takes one person to get one person.

And even then, if you had a supervisor who had nothing to say because this affects company wide policy this supervisor wouldn’t be able to help you anyway.

Patience is a virtue. Governements and companies don’t work on the same time scale individuals do.

Mate, Colin could have said a number of things to calm things down like ’we’re looking into this’. He was on the forums commenting on ascended changes while completely ignoring their forum in an uproar.

Even Gaile could have returned with a status update. This isn’t the 19th century. We can communicate from pretty much everywhere. Saying they’re too busy to even acknowledge from someone with some clout, or keep us up to date simply holds no water.

There’s no status update until they make a decision. If they decide to do nothing, Colin’s reassurance would add fuel to the fire. This isn’t the 19th century. We live in an age of instant gratification. That’s not Anet’s fault.

If Anet doesn’t know they’re going to do something, they can’t say anything. And they don’t know before those meetings.

You appear to argue that an appeasing statement that doesn’t overpromise is completely impossible.

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’re looking into this one, looks like it’s not working properly, thanks folks!

ColinJohanson.2394:

I just want to quickly add, there are some errors on this chart of how stuff is unlocking, as well as 1st character vs. account unlocks when some of these systems were carried between regions. We’re trying to identify what happened and repair those things assigned the wrong account/character fields, as well as levels.

ColinJohanson.2394:

It’s a bug, we’re trying to find folks on a Sunday to fix it now, worst case we’ll get it fixed Monday.
Thanks everyone!

…….While they’ve done so many times in the past.

webtoehobbit.4201:

If you think about it, many of us spend a good $50 heck, even $60 on a new game. Take Fallout 4 for example. If they had announced Fallout 4 a day before it released, no one would need to know ANY details about the game because players know Bethesda and they know that they truly deliver on their games. Players trust Bethesda which in turn makes them LOTS of money.

Maybe the real issue here in our community, isn’t that the price is “too high” or that vets aren’t getting enough freebies. Maybe it’s all a matter of a degraded trust between us, the playerbase and ANet over the last couple years.

This is a very good point. Bethesda has an excellent reputation with their community and their relationship to their community is directly linked to their marketing and sales. Bethesda knows this. Look at what happened when they were trying to introduce paid mods on Steam. Their players were livid! And what did they do? Days, DAYS later even after writing a blog post defending their decision, they immediately took paid mods down because they could see they were problematic, poorly implemented and heavily divisive among the community. They didn’t hide anything, they didn’t try to save face, they didn’t try to censor or BELITTLE the community. They listened because they were going to announce new, highly anticipated games and they knew better than to go into E3 by tarnishing their near flawless reputation.

All the other points have been mentioned but I wish Anet and perhaps NCsoft would pay closer attention to incidents like this one.

Zhaneel.9208:

A very good article illustrating the point that we don’t know if HoT will be worth the amount we pay for:

“Here’s the thing: we still don’t know a whole lot about the expansion. ArenaNet says that it’s built for repeatable, challenging content, and that the design of the jungle creates more verticality than ever before. But we don’t know how big the expansion will be. When I asked Colin Johanson this, after the expansion was announced, his reply was that ArenaNet wanted to “do a smaller sized area for total scope, and focus really on depth.” Even after a beta weekend, we’re still not fully sure how that depth will manifest.”

http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-players-rightly-upset-by-heart-of-thorns-pre-purchase-scheme/

I made a post in another thread with the same point, but found this article right after that. I’m glad that some members of the press are sympathetic at least.

The only pve content that’s even been hinted at is Verdant Brink, new story/LS that we see one short instance of, and yet to be disclosed “challenging group content”. Several features they are hyping as HoT features are, in fact, being made available to everyone. They’ve shown more of this new wvw map(that everyone gets), than any type of pve content.

If they have pve content, why aren’t they showing it off, or at least giving us some information about what is there?

The more I think about it, and see this mess of cash grabs and greed, the more I think that Verdant Brink and a few story instances is all of the pve content $50 will buy. Even if they promise more, it doesn’t make that cost worth it, as in-between updates are paid for by gemstore sales.

Anet is asking for a whole lot of faith in the value of HoT, but not giving much reason to have that faith. Not long ago, I had that faith. But not after this week.

mrstealth.6701:

Zhaneel.9208:

A very good article illustrating the point that we don’t know if HoT will be worth the amount we pay for:

“Here’s the thing: we still don’t know a whole lot about the expansion. ArenaNet says that it’s built for repeatable, challenging content, and that the design of the jungle creates more verticality than ever before. But we don’t know how big the expansion will be. When I asked Colin Johanson this, after the expansion was announced, his reply was that ArenaNet wanted to “do a smaller sized area for total scope, and focus really on depth.” Even after a beta weekend, we’re still not fully sure how that depth will manifest.”

http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-players-rightly-upset-by-heart-of-thorns-pre-purchase-scheme/

I made a post in another thread with the same point, but found this article right after that. I’m glad that some members of the press are sympathetic at least.

The only pve content that’s even been hinted at is Verdant Brink, new story/LS that we see one short instance of, and yet to be disclosed “challenging group content”. Several features they are hyping as HoT features are, in fact, being made available to everyone. They’ve shown more of this new wvw map(that everyone gets), than any type of pve content.

If they have pve content, why aren’t they showing it off, or at least giving us some information about what is there?

The more I think about it, and see this mess of cash grabs an greed, the more I think that Verdant Brink and a few story instances is all of the pve content $50 will buy. Even if they promise more, it doesn’t make that cost worth it, as in-between updates are paid for by gemstore sales.

Anet is asking for a whole lot of faith in the value of HoT, but not giving much reason to have that faith.

I love how the OP of this thread is a simple question about what’s included in the Standard package, but nearly 90% of this thread is about whether HoT is worth $50 or not.

Great Job forum mods, you really merged the topics correctly!

Super duper so obvious simple solution it will BLOW YOUR MIND.

The current price/bundle is backwards. As it is now, current players (not even just vets) are getting the short end and are rightly upset. Most players would be happy with an extra character slot for the $50, and I’m willing to bet the ones that are asking for even more than that would end up settling because they wouldn’t have enough backing to keep fighting.

That being said, here is my proposal.
$50 includes GW2 HoT + 1 character slot.
GW core game price dropped to $10.

With this, current players are happy and Arena Net loses no money. In the long run they could possibly be making more money this way because you can’t farm gold to get a core game purchase like you can with a character slot. And I highly doubt people will complain about paying $10 for the core game. Some will QQ (there’s always some) because they didn’t purchase before the change, but they would still buy and get over it pretty quickly.

brently.7946:

Super duper so obvious simple solution it will BLOW YOUR MIND.

The current price/bundle is backwards. As it is now, current players (not even just vets) are getting the short end and are rightly upset. Most players would be happy with an extra character slot for the $50, and I’m willing to bet the ones that are asking for even more than that would end up settling because they wouldn’t have enough backing to keep fighting.

That being said, here is my proposal.
$50 includes GW2 HoT + 1 character slot.
GW core game price dropped to $10.

With this, current players are happy and Arena Net loses no money. In the long run they could possibly be making more money this way because you can’t farm gold to get a core game purchase like you can with a character slot. And I highly doubt people will complain about paying $10 for the core game. Some will QQ (there’s always some) because they didn’t purchase before the change, but they would still buy and get over it pretty quickly.

I would have been fine with that as the initial offering. But after the fact, they need to do better than that. They were deceptively selling the core game for months, and now offering a terrible solution to those that bought it in the last 30 days.

Anet needs to fix the problem with the HoT packages, make up for the lies/deceptive marketing/false advertisement, and re-earn the trust of their players.

I love the songs from the Fallout series. Don’t you?

92 pages later still no news from anet…….Ima make a book out of this thread Pre-purchase SOON!

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Vayne.8563:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

The community manager said 3 or 4 days ago that they’re listening.

Yet still no reponse. To me that’s the equivalent of asking to speak to a supervisor and the attendant saying ‘sure!’ walk off, and never return.

Listening means taking data, having meetings, discussing things and making decisions on a company level. Your analogy is an unfair one. Getting a supervisor takes one person to get one person.

And even then, if you had a supervisor who had nothing to say because this affects company wide policy this supervisor wouldn’t be able to help you anyway.

Patience is a virtue. Governements and companies don’t work on the same time scale individuals do.

Mate, Colin could have said a number of things to calm things down like ’we’re looking into this’. He was on the forums commenting on ascended changes while completely ignoring their forum in an uproar.

Even Gaile could have returned with a status update. This isn’t the 19th century. We can communicate from pretty much everywhere. Saying they’re too busy to even acknowledge from someone with some clout, or keep us up to date simply holds no water.

+1

MonoSodiumGlutamate.4217:

92 pages later still no news from anet…….Ima make a book out of this thread Pre-purchase SOON!

Do it before their response so you can write a sequel.

The sequel should only have 1 page, with just the official response. Then charge everyone the same amount BUT include the first book for free to everyone who didn’t purchase it…. but first make sure to tell everyone the first book is required in order to buy the second.

I’ve played GW2 since release and I’ve spent a considerable amount on Gems in the Trading Post. I’m a loyal player along with many others, but I’ll be waiting to purchase HoT when it’s sold separately, at a lower price for those who already own the game. The fact that new players will get a better deal than your loyal fan base is ridiculous.

I have to quote Melonni now: “This looks bad.”

So what Anet have done till now;

1. they said that HoT price is $50 and GW2 core game is only for new players.
2. they throw Gaile to the wolves and she tried to calm down us, the angry wolves. They know that we trust Gaile.
3. others hide to the bushes and want to see is Gaile eaten alive by wolves
4. they keep silence and wishes that angry wolves will go away

Well, I think it is not working at this time. Or maybe they raise this fuzz by purpose, because there is coming that 23rd update with specialization, because they know that it will be totally big fail.

No matter what Anet’s plan was, but I bet they didn’t expect this kind of riot what we have in here now. Maybe they have that kind of fallacy that their loyal customers are eating anything what they offer. Their customers are blind and not hesitate to spend more money.

This silence is bad business.

Now I will end as Melonni did:

“I would like to change my opinion to: This looks very bad.”

+1 for the OP. I’ve seen nothing to make me think ANet cares one iota about the people who play the game. I could easily count a good half dozen reasons there’s a serious lack of trust in this community. Enough said. OP was RIGHT ON THE MONEY.

I haven’t read all the 92 pages so I might repeat what some people already said and I apologize if that’s the case but I thought it might have a better chance to be read by someone from Anet here

“The way I see it is Anet decided that the price they would ask for HoT would be 50$ base on whatever estimation and research they made, that is not important, they made a product and priced it at 50$ and that’s their decision to make. Up to that point, everything is fine.
At some point, after the company decided on the price but before advertising it, it was decided that they would add the core game to the package for new players. And that is where it gets touchy. Good plan on the surface to attract new players, but by doing so, they created a situation that makes the 50$ purchase not fair for everyone. New player get the full thing for the price while those who have the core game already only get HoT.
Now IF those who already have the core game ALSO get an additional core game (the way I understand it they don’t) for the price, then it’s kinda fair. That would be the bare minimum to do. But then comes another issue, not all players want a new base account, I personally don’t but some might do. In any case, the issue come with the absence of the option to not buy the core game again for those who already have it.
Anyway, the situation is a mess and Anet HAS to do something about it. I like to believe that they are discussing it right now and will come with something.
In the case they read all those posts here are the possible solution I can think of or that I’ve seen so far and think could work:
-Make a second set of Editions (50$, 75$ and 100$) but substitute the core game for something else (I would highly suggest a character slot) – Probably my favorite and give the option to those who already bought it to substitute the edition they bought for the equivalent without the core game. Anet don’t lose money and most will be happy about it.
-Make a second set of Editions with reduced price without the core game – Another good option but then Anet would have to accept a “loss” on the value they estimated HoT was.
-Give a separate code for both the core game and HoT so the “veteran” get an additional base account – Not the best option since not everyone actually want an additional base game but like I said before, that would be the bare minimum so everyone gets the same thing for the price they pay even though they are forced to pay for something they don’t want to get the part they want.
Anyway, my 2 cents. I hope Anet will come out with something that will be fair for everyone.”

The current price for the expansion is just pure BS to me…i mean $50?? srsly??

They need to think how many new user they will get (which i bet not that many, since most of them already own vanila GW2), but also how many dormant account user that are willing to spend money for HoT, and how many of them are willing to buy the expansion for more than 1 (multiple account user, and yes there are many of them out there).

Still waiting for @net to drop the expansion price to $30.

matrix seishin.5312:

Razor.9872:

That makes perfect sense in my opinion. You have had 3 years to trick out your awesome car (which has clearly risen in value). They get a crummy lemon with the potential to be as good 3 years from now.

If it’s compansation you want, then the only thing I can imagine is if they threw in an extra seat for vet car owners.

But really this whole shinannigan is just one fat overblown sense of entitlement.

I see your point. But in that case 50$ for the expansion is a bit much. It wont have the same amount of content as the game 3 years ago, but it is the same price. I can’t compare to GW1 since I didn’t play it. But I know that making new content got harder since then. A character slot and a 10$ decrease in the price would be perfect… I would settle just for slot too.

Well, technically you would be paying $50 for the expansion and all the “free” updates coming to the game afterwards. So that 50 is well spent. On another note. Understand that A-net cannot lower the price further than $50. They had that price set for them by an outside source.

Aren’t we important enough just to be answered? I’m not asking about the “we repaired all” answer, but just " we care and will do something" or “we don’t care, live with it”. So we can quit this flood.

RabbitUp.8294:

Razor.9872:

Yes, yes they are just giving you the option to buy the set of tires. You are just confused because the tires are the same price as what you previously paid for your car. You are not forced to buy anything. Hell, by all means, if it makes you feel better in the slightest, then just wait a while for them to release more information first.

Another anolgoy? Alrighty, here goes… :P

The thing about this magic ketchup is it doesn’t show up unless you have never eaten a sandwich before (feaking creepy ketchup).

It’s always saddening to hear good players such as yourself leaving, but I can’t — and won’t -- hold you back. If anything, I hope you find what you are looking for :\

Besides the fact you ignore the shady FAQ business, you completely fail at basic economics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch

Nobody gives you free cars. There’s a production cost for these cars, as well as an opportunity cost, as the company could sell them for a profit instead of gifting them to you.

You cover these costs.

And while Anet doesn’t sell a physical product, they would still be losing money if they gave GW2 away for free instead of selling it. Instead, the $50 price tag covers both games, with veteran players paying more so that newcomers can get the bundle cheaper.

This whole bet of their relied on marketing smoke-and-mirrors to work. Thankfully, a good portion of the playerbase have above average understanding of economic principles and marketing tricks.

I’m not ignoring he shady FaQ issue, it just didn’t come up. While I agree the issue was wrong, I think we each see it in a different light. I believe A-net was trying to do good by correcting their wording. However, they did do in a silent and communication-lacking manner that was a poor decision in hindsight.

Lets be clear with one thing. I am not failing at all in economics. If anything it is you who has failed to comprehend something. While this rule you mentioned may hold true for many things, it did not for HoT. You see, the price for the expansion was already set in stone before A-net decided to include the vanilla game. If you look back through this thread, you will find the quote I’m paraphrasing (on mobile so I will try to get it later). I have also heard rumor that this deal is only temporary. We are not paying for this deal because A-net made the economical decision that they would make far more base sales, and thus far more future micro transactions, if they structured this deal so. In other words: as long as the free lunch makes people buy more sandwitches later, the future profits will be higher and pay over the cost loss that occured from the original gambit.

True, the overall strategy is a “trick” to get people to pay more in the long run; but I do believe A-net’s true intentions were to make it easier for new players to join the game.

Changeling Dash.4782:

Aren’t we important enough just to be answered?

Check back on Wednesday.

Sad to say, but that’s my guess for the earliest “real” response; late Tuesday or, more likely, sometime Wednesday. Does the physical box version hit retail on Tuesday? I’m pretty sure I read that somewhere, though I might be wrong.

Razor.9872:

matrix seishin.5312:

Razor.9872:

That makes perfect sense in my opinion. You have had 3 years to trick out your awesome car (which has clearly risen in value). They get a crummy lemon with the potential to be as good 3 years from now.

If it’s compansation you want, then the only thing I can imagine is if they threw in an extra seat for vet car owners.

But really this whole shinannigan is just one fat overblown sense of entitlement.

I see your point. But in that case 50$ for the expansion is a bit much. It wont have the same amount of content as the game 3 years ago, but it is the same price. I can’t compare to GW1 since I didn’t play it. But I know that making new content got harder since then. A character slot and a 10$ decrease in the price would be perfect… I would settle just for slot too.

Well, technically you would be paying $50 for the expansion and all the “free” updates coming to the game afterwards. So that 50 is well spent. On another note. Understand that A-net cannot lower the price further than $50. They had that price set for them by an outside source.

The price itself is not the issue, that is the price Anet have set for the product they are selling. From there, customers decide if they buy it or not. Same thing apply on whatever merchandise you buy.

Lets take the car example as a parallel: So you have a car but would like to have a minivan in addition. You find one that is sold for 30 000$, some people will think it’s too expansive but you like that one and think the price is fair. The salesman now tell you that if you don’t already own a car, they’ll give you a small car as a free bonus but if you already have a car, you only get the minivan for the 30 000$. Does that seem right to you? Would you still want to pay the full 30 000$ for the one minivan while others get a minivan AND a car for the same price from the same dealer?

My point is the price is set by the vendor, as a customer you get to chose if you are willing to pay that amount for the product or not. The issue here is that some people are getting more for their 50$ than others. It’s not entitlement, it’s fairness: same price same product.

As I stated in a earlier post, the minimum Anet has to do is give everyone the same thing, 50$ for GW2 and HoT. While I don’t really want a second base game and would ratter have the option to substitute the base game for a free character slot, at least that would be fair.

Astaroth.5146:

Razor.9872:

matrix seishin.5312:

Razor.9872:

That makes perfect sense in my opinion. You have had 3 years to trick out your awesome car (which has clearly risen in value). They get a crummy lemon with the potential to be as good 3 years from now.

If it’s compansation you want, then the only thing I can imagine is if they threw in an extra seat for vet car owners.

But really this whole shinannigan is just one fat overblown sense of entitlement.

I see your point. But in that case 50$ for the expansion is a bit much. It wont have the same amount of content as the game 3 years ago, but it is the same price. I can’t compare to GW1 since I didn’t play it. But I know that making new content got harder since then. A character slot and a 10$ decrease in the price would be perfect… I would settle just for slot too.

Well, technically you would be paying $50 for the expansion and all the “free” updates coming to the game afterwards. So that 50 is well spent. On another note. Understand that A-net cannot lower the price further than $50. They had that price set for them by an outside source.

The price itself is not the issue, that is the price Anet have set for the product they are selling. From there, customers decide if they buy it or not. Same thing apply on whatever merchandise you buy.

Lets take the car example as a parallel: So you have a car but would like to have a minivan in addition. You find one that is sold for 30 000$, some people will think it’s too expansive but you like that one and think the price is fair. The salesman now tell you that if you don’t already own a car, they’ll give you a small car as a free bonus but if you already have a car, you only get the minivan for the 30 000$. Does that seem right to you? Would you still want to pay the full 30 000$ for the one minivan while others get a minivan AND a car for the same price from the same dealer?

My point is the price is set by the vendor, as a customer you get to chose if you are willing to pay that amount for the product or not. The issue here is that some people are getting more for their 50$ than others. It’s not entitlement, it’s fairness: same price same product.

As I stated in a earlier post, the minimum Anet has to do is give everyone the same thing, 50$ for GW2 and HoT. While I don’t really want a second base game and would ratter have the option to substitute the base game for a free character slot, at least that would be fair.

Oh boy, another car analogy xD

Alrighty, I’ll give it a shot.

Yes. I think it is fair because you ALSO own that bonus car ahead of time. Not only that, but that car of yours has grown into [insert dream car here] and can mash and transformw with that 30,000 car you’re buying. While the new buyers are driving around feeding their freeby, you’ll be flying around in space shooting car-lasers.

People are making this an issue of fairness by acting over-entitled and not looking at the big picture.

I can agree with your last point, though. I believe a free character slot for vets would be a fair compensation.

When I first looked at the price of the expansion, I was a bit shocked. Expansions used to be around the £20 mark. However asking for £35 (nearly double) is way too much.

I can understand why they included the base game but at the current price you cant help but feel that your paying £15 for the main game and £20 for the add-on. If as you say existing GW2 players get nothing, then that sucks. I as many others paid for the base game ages back. Anet should give something to existing GW2 players.

I can only think anet got greedy with the price. Shame, as otherwise it would of been great getting an addon for GW2 finally.

They plan to sell the game in shops as a boxed game. many retailers dont have the GW2 game anymore so this new game solves their problem. Selling the expasion as a stand alone product will raise the retailers costs. So they may do not buy the separate expansion box becasue it is not a good deal at the same price.

On the other hand, selling the expansion as a stand alone product only online will draw the palyer base of GW2 to not buy any games in the stores so the retailers will be passed by.

I belive A-net wants to see their game in stores to give them prestige thats why they are not selling it only online. Of course there will be players who dont have online payment methods available but for them the stores are the only solution so they will settle with whats in offer.
Online you can make any sort of combinations for pricing, but not in stores so I guess this is the only issue with them…. see the game on store shelves. It may ahve been a deal with the stores like they will sell with them all the future expamnsions or products… and if they wouldnt they would face lawsuits.

Bad managament in all cases

Razor.9872:

Astaroth.5146:

Razor.9872:

matrix seishin.5312:

Razor.9872:

That makes perfect sense in my opinion. You have had 3 years to trick out your awesome car (which has clearly risen in value). They get a crummy lemon with the potential to be as good 3 years from now.

If it’s compansation you want, then the only thing I can imagine is if they threw in an extra seat for vet car owners.

But really this whole shinannigan is just one fat overblown sense of entitlement.

I see your point. But in that case 50$ for the expansion is a bit much. It wont have the same amount of content as the game 3 years ago, but it is the same price. I can’t compare to GW1 since I didn’t play it. But I know that making new content got harder since then. A character slot and a 10$ decrease in the price would be perfect… I would settle just for slot too.

Well, technically you would be paying $50 for the expansion and all the “free” updates coming to the game afterwards. So that 50 is well spent. On another note. Understand that A-net cannot lower the price further than $50. They had that price set for them by an outside source.

The price itself is not the issue, that is the price Anet have set for the product they are selling. From there, customers decide if they buy it or not. Same thing apply on whatever merchandise you buy.

Lets take the car example as a parallel: So you have a car but would like to have a minivan in addition. You find one that is sold for 30 000$, some people will think it’s too expansive but you like that one and think the price is fair. The salesman now tell you that if you don’t already own a car, they’ll give you a small car as a free bonus but if you already have a car, you only get the minivan for the 30 000$. Does that seem right to you? Would you still want to pay the full 30 000$ for the one minivan while others get a minivan AND a car for the same price from the same dealer?

My point is the price is set by the vendor, as a customer you get to chose if you are willing to pay that amount for the product or not. The issue here is that some people are getting more for their 50$ than others. It’s not entitlement, it’s fairness: same price same product.

As I stated in a earlier post, the minimum Anet has to do is give everyone the same thing, 50$ for GW2 and HoT. While I don’t really want a second base game and would ratter have the option to substitute the base game for a free character slot, at least that would be fair.

Oh boy, another car analogy xD

Alrighty, I’ll give it a shot.

Yes. I think it is fair because you ALSO own that bonus car ahead of time. Not only that, but that car of yours has grown into [insert dream car here] and can mash and transformw with that 30,000 car you’re buying. While the new buyers are driving around feeding their freeby, you’ll be flying around in space shooting car-lasers.

People are making this an issue of fairness by acting over-entitled and not looking at the big picture.

I can agree with your last point, though. I believe a free character slot for vets would be a fair compensation.

I would argue that the fact I own the car ahead of time – and that my car has been improved over that time – comes down to the fact that I paid for said car a long time ago, and have worked to improve it over that time.

and I’d say that the fact that I have that car is none of the salesman’s kitten business.

Razor.9872:

Well, technically you would be paying $50 for the expansion and all the “free” updates coming to the game afterwards. So that 50 is well spent. On another note. Understand that A-net cannot lower the price further than $50. They had that price set for them by an outside source.

Look like we can’t understand each other. 3 years ago we paid 50$ for the whole game + free updates. The game included tons of content. HoT will not include that much content (at first at least). So that’s why I think we should not pay the same price as someone who just bought the game. Technically it’s like this:

Before
old players get: GW2 + updates till now = 50$

Now
old players get : HoT + updates in the future = 50$
new player get: GW2 + HoT + updates in the future = 50$ (I’m fine with this)

But HoT < GW2 and yet we pay the same for both. This is what I’m not okay with. When updating you should get more so that:
HoT + some stuff = GW2

Never thought the words you said were true
Never thought you said just what you meant
Never knew how much I needed you
Never thought you’d leave, until you went

Morning comes and morning goes with no regret
And evening brings the memories I can’t forget
Empty rooms that echo as I climb the stairs
And empty clothes that drape and fall on empty chairs

And I wonder if you know
That I never understood
That although you said you’d go
Until you did I never thought you would.

Razor.9872:

Oh boy, another car analogy xD

Alrighty, I’ll give it a shot.

Yes. I think it is fair because you ALSO own that bonus car ahead of time. Not only that, but that car of yours has grown into [insert dream car here] and can mash and transformw with that 30,000 car you’re buying. While the new buyers are driving around feeding their freeby, you’ll be flying around in space shooting car-lasers.

People are making this an issue of fairness by acting over-entitled and not looking at the big picture.

I can agree with your last point, though. I believe a free character slot for vets would be a fair compensation.

I took the car analogy only cause it was used previously in this particular thread. The truth is mostly anything can be used as a parallel but we really don’t have to.

The base point I’m trying to make is same price same product. I’m not arguing the price although it’s a bit expansive to my liking, I’m not arguing the fact that Anet made the decision to not include a free character slot in an expansion featuring a new playable class, I’m not arguing the fact that the package they are offering in pre-purchase are lacking in goodies to make it worth spending money on something that don’t exist yet (Usually the companies would reward people giving money ahead of time with exclusive things or something from the cash shop and they aren’t in this case – Access to Beta doesn’t count since you’re basically working for Anet while doing so :P )

So as you see, I disagree with some of Anet’s decision in this matter but I’m not arguing with them about those because all of that is their decision to make. I understand your point of view, I bought the game almost 3 years ago and got plenty for what I paid for, no complaint here. I still disagree with you on the package thing. They decided to add the core game as a free bonus, everyone should have it, that is now part of the package. It might sound kind of twisted but to me, saying Some get X + Y and Others get Y for 50$ feel like discrimination. It’s not as bad as race, sex, religion discrimination, but it’s similar to me.

I think Anet has to do something about it anyway because as it is now, they are not winning by not doing anything. Money wise, they will diminish their revenue by not answering this issue.

Here’s what will happen if they do nothing v/s if they find a way to “compensate” those who already have the game:
- New players: Little change, most will join the game whatever happens except some that know a player that feels cheated : Little loss if nothing is done but probably negligible
- Players that don’t see a problem: No change whatever Anet do
- Players that feel cheated: Some will still buy the game, some will wait for a sale and some will not buy it and leave: Some loss v/s no loss, hard to evaluate but there’s gonna be some loss there

Of course whatever Anet does, some people already left the game and won’t come back, some will not buy the game because it’s too expensive to their liking, etc., but those are gone whatever Anet do lol. Business wise for the matter at hand, giving us customers more options, a different “bonus” for those who already have the base game or just plain giving an additional core game key if you already have it = more people buying the expansion = more money.

We can debate all night (actually we did lol) but I believe we’ll both stick to our opinion on that matter. I won’t convince you or the others that think like you and you won’t convince me or the others that think like me. But I think we can both (all) agree that more options = more money for Anet and thus would be a good business decision to try to please more people

Alright, off to bed for me, have a good one

BrotherBelial.3094:

WSG Delen.9203:

Ok, I have relented and bought HoT both for myself and my pal BUT neither of us received a CD Key for the base game. While this may be of limited use as both of us already own the base game having the CD Key would have allowed us to have second accounts. Given the store clearly states “includes Guild Wars 2 core game” they are in contempt of the trade description act in the UK by not delivering CD Keys for the Core Game.

It dose say for new players. And this is what some of the kitten storm is about.

Actually on the Store page it does not…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Thus by strict interpretation of UK regulations they are in technical breach.

There are the following main issues in play here:-

1. The price of the expansion and questions over it’s value (based on what I have heard from a certain source this could be a valid argument)
   1. No additional character slots (other than a Beta participant slot) included in the base version of the expansion (regardless of the bundling of the core game)
   2. Historically, with GW1 expansions 2 additional slots were included with each expansion (IIRC)
2. The bundling of the core game for free (which apparently is only a pre-order special deal)
   1. The store does not explicitly state (only if you don’t already have the game)
   2. No separate key is delivered for the core game if you do buy it thus you could not add HoT to an existing account and create a separate Core-Only game account using the second key
   3. Given the above two sub-points A-Net could be considered in technical breach of (at least) UK law/regulations
3. Guild Halls are exclusive to HoT thus it holds guild leaders (who reasonably expected Halls to be part of the core game based on what A-Net previously said) to ransom
   1. One of the primary reasons I bought it for myself and my pal.

Yes – including the core game (apparently for free) is a bit of a crappy move but apparently refunds have been offered to players who bought the game in (roughly) the past month (based on what I have heard). This is exasperated by not actually delivering a separate key for the base game which could have utility to existing account holders by allowing them to create an additional account with 4 characters that could be used almost purely for storage for example.

Personally, I put the current situation down to incompetence on the part of management at A-Net rather than malice or intentionally unethical behaviour which could be in technical breach of regional law/regulations.

Overall, I think we all need to decide if we are going to buy it and either buy it or forget about it as I doubt A-Net are going to change the status quo… Although, I wish they would and compensate owners of HoT appropriately (e.g. either delivery of core game keys to those that have bought HoT, while it included the core game, or some kind of in-game compensation to those that added HoT to an existing account).

It’s funny that there’s a Sticky thread above this one called “Questions about Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns”, but it never touches on the question that’s been asked for 92 here.

It’s also the only Sticky thread in this subforum that’s locked. Kinda weird how it clearly says “Do not contact customer support or Anet Devs in-game with questions about Heart of Thorns”, although, to be fair, that was written a few months ago.

WSG Delen.9203:

1. Historically, with GW1 expansions 2 additional slots were included with each expansion (IIRC)

• just gonna hop in here before the technicality police do – the only real expansion for GW1 didn’t come with a character slot. nor did it come with a new profession.
• the two standalone campaigns, however, came with character slots equal to the professions added (2) when linked with an existing account.

WSG Delen.9203:

1. The store does not explicitly state (only if you don’t already have the game)

• the hover text does say account creation or upgrade, but it doesn’t make clear that existing players lose the free core game. shaky, but worth noting.

WSG Delen.9203:

1. No separate key is delivered for the core game if you do buy it thus you could not add HoT to an existing account and create a separate Core-Only game account using the second key

• this is one of the things that really gets to me about the whole debacle.

WSG Delen.9203:

1. Given the above two sub-points A-Net could be considered in technical breach of (at least) UK law/regulations

• I’m no expert, but if you had more information on this, it’d be interesting to see. being a skritt to your fanbase is one thing. violation of legislation is a whole other kettle of fish.

WSG Delen.9203:

1. Guild Halls are exclusive to HoT thus it holds guild leaders (who reasonably expected Halls to be part of the core game based on what A-Net previously said) to ransom

• I see the point you make here, though I’m less concerned for this than for other things. (not to say it’s not important)

WSG Delen.9203:

apparently refunds have been offered to players who bought the game in (roughly) the past month (based on what I have heard).

• this is true, but seems to require a fair amount of effort on the consumer’s part, and even then, the law states they have to give a refund to players who wish for one within 30 days of purchase. this isn’t them being nice, it’s them having no choice.

WSG Delen.9203:

This is exasperated by not actually delivering a separate key for the base game which could have utility to existing account holders by allowing them to create an additional account with 4 characters that could be used almost purely for storage for example.

• yupp, this is much of my problem right here. this at least would be equal value for money.

WSG Delen.9203:

Personally, I put the current situation down to incompetence on the part of management at A-Net rather than malice or intentionally unethical behaviour which could be in technical breach of regional law/regulations.

• possibly, but I’d say two things on this:
  • First, intent doesn’t matter as much as we’d like sometimes. I don’t care too much if it’s an accident or intentional, if the end result’s the same.
  • Secondly, their lack of response thus far cannot be an accident. their inability to communicate with their playerbase is clearly intentional, and is rapidly becoming the source of much of the anger floating around.

WSG Delen.9203:

Overall, I think we all need to decide if we are going to buy it and either buy it or forget about it as I doubt A-Net are going to change the status quo…

• I’d like to agree, but I enjoy GW2, and I have faith in the devs behind it, so I’ll keep on arguing my case, and trying to make my point in the hopes that the marketing/sales/management people who messed up will fix the situation. if we give up now, nothing will get better, but if we keep going, we might be able to fix this. as it stands, I can’t bring myself to per-purchase, but I’ll be kitten ed if I’m giving up on the game and the community I’ve come to enjoy so much.

In case people miss the Amazon thread:

Anet certified retailers appear to be selling HoT expansion only €10 cheaper than the HoT+GW2 pre-purchase version

Note that I say appear. I have no idea what’s going on, lol.

I would suggest Anet go ahead as planned but give people who already own the core game $50 in gems if they buy the expansion. Thus they reward their loyal customers but still make profits on the new game.

Tbh Anet seems to lack common sense.

Relentliss.2170:

I would suggest Anet go ahead as planned but give people who already own the core game $50 in gems if they buy the expansion. Thus they reward their loyal customers but still make profits on the new game.

Tbh Anet seems to lack common sense.

50$ worth of gems would be excessive (plus would never be done their economist would have a fit, the amount of gem- gold conversions would send it out of whack). 10$ worth of gems (as the lowest price gw2 was available for) is the fair alternative.

If you want to try for more you’d need to use something non-convertible, I.E They might be willing to give 3 character slots , but they would not be willing to give 2400 gems.

Gray.9041:

WSG Delen.9203:

1. The store does not explicitly state (only if you don’t already have the game)

• the hover text does say account creation or upgrade, but it doesn’t make clear that existing players lose the free core game. shaky, but worth noting.

WSG Delen.9203:

1. No separate key is delivered for the core game if you do buy it thus you could not add HoT to an existing account and create a separate Core-Only game account using the second key

• this is one of the things that really gets to me about the whole debacle.

WSG Delen.9203:

1. Given the above two sub-points A-Net could be considered in technical breach of (at least) UK law/regulations

• I’m no expert, but if you had more information on this, it’d be interesting to see. being a skritt to your fanbase is one thing. violation of legislation is a whole other kettle of fish.

I am no expert either but common sense indicates this falls under the category of “Product not meeting Product Description” under the UK’s Trade Description Act and possibly falls foul of other regulations too.

Dawdler.8521:

In case people miss the Amazon thread:

Anet certified retailers appear to be selling HoT expansion only €10 cheaper than the HoT+GW2 pre-purchase version

Note that I say appear. I have no idea what’s going on, lol.

In the US, Amazon ONLY sells the core at the moment lol. No expansion. Can still get the Collectors Edition, new in box, tho!

I have flip-flopped on how I feel about this for a long time.
I’ve flicked out across reddit threads and forum posts, but really, a-net should be offering 2 £35 offers, one for new players, one for existing players. The new players get the core game, existing players get an extra character slot. Nothing else needs changing.

Personally, I don’t care if this happens or not, because i’ll be buying the deluxe in a week or so after my pay-day.

Some more info would be nice though a-net!
How many beta events might we get to see? Next feature presentation? Possible release window? Any info on re-playability of season 1?

I love that you have the ability to work on your games till you’re ready, but you could do with a bit more community fronting.

Cormac.3871:

mrstealth.6701:

Cormac.3871:

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

When it was $10, I wasn’t expected to pay for it again.

Now, I’m being asked to pay for it as part of a bundle, and not even kittening get it.

You are not paying for it again. They decided to give it away for free as part of a bundle that doesn’t apply to you if you wish to link it to your existing account. That is something to complain about, but don’t misrepresent it.

Actually, we are paying for it again. Because Hot+Core is not a bundle. If it were a bundle you would have gotten two serial codes: one for core + one for Hot. I’ve gotten bundled games before, you get a serial code for every single part of the package.

Since you can’t even buy stand-alone core anymore.

HoT is the new core game. To say that HoT includes core is misleading at best.

For all those who are expecting a reply, you will not get one, they will send Gaile in again to say that they are reading the comments and taking feedback, the exact same thing when they rolled out the Megaserver and the backlash began ( granted it wasn’t as bad as this ) and still problems that where introduced with Megaserver are still in game now,

They have made theirs minds up, Anet very rarely goes back on decisions, and at this point they almost cannot, as people have already spent money on buying HOT, so they are now firmly stuck between a rock and a hard place with no way out, so sadly they will just go into hiding mode and allow this to continue, and I cannot forsee us ever getting an official response from them,

The fact that its now went mainstream across social media, and still no reply just backs this up all the more,

I can see the BLTC team pulling them out of this one, by giving away a free character slot on the BLTC.

Either way id hate to be on the Anet team right now having to explain to shareholders/parent company why what should have been a great announcement has turned into a complete and utter disaster for them.

At this point in time, I think if they did try and fix it, a lot of people have lost trust in them, and may not even buy the update anyway now, they should have been ready for this and had a back up plan in progress.

I feel sorry for Gaile who will continue to take the brunt of this, I hope shes getting a pay rise for the hassle she has to take.

I think this is still fixable, but ArenaNet needs to make a decision soon.

In my opinion, most people would be willing to get past this if they did two things -

1. They need to include a character slot or the equivalent with the base package. The most logical action would be to simply give 800 gems to anyone buying (or who has bought) the expansion.

2. They need to provide a realistic description of what is included in HOT, including how much territory is being unlocked, a description of what they mean by challenging group content and whether or not certain features (fractals, guild missions, etc) will be expanded upon in the expansion.

Those are both very simple – and understandable requests.

I’ve already purchased the expansion myself, but more and more of my guildees and friends are saying they are holding off until they see at least one of the two items above. These are people that are important to me and, without them, I could see my personal investment in the game diminishing.

A thought experiment…

to all those people comming in, saying how entitled we are, little children, idiots and what not…

i wonder how you’d react if anet did cave in and from this day all bundles included 800gems extra. the reason being that the sales weren’t as good and thus they threw in another 800 gems to get people to buy it. BUT since you’ve already pre purchased wouldn’t be getting any of that, cause obviously when you bought it it was value for money.

really wonder how that would turn out…

In the future I hope they will consider releasing all of the information about what is contained in the game before doing pre-orders. Some players will have to pay $60(x-pac+character slot). That’s the same price as the base game. The xpac fits into a small corner of the map. They don’t share the same worth to me.