Guild Wars 2

data.4093:

Beast Sos.1457:

If I want to play all the content in the expansion I’m going to have to pay $60. Why might you ask, because if I want to play all the content that is going to be released I have to buy another character slot. Don’t come on and tell me, “well you can convert gold to gems!”. All that is saying is Anet doesnt give 2 kittens about my time even though I’m spending $50 on top of the few hundred I invested in the game(gems to gold). And no I didnt need the gold I just wanted to support a company that I thought had the players best interests in mind, which, evidently, is far from the truth.

You thought a subsidiary of a publicly owned corporation cared about giving you free stuff? And you gave them money for things you didn’t need expecting them to reciprocate? Did you have a contract? I still find it laughable that players assumed Anet needed cash when they were making money from the cash shop…Anet never considered an expansion because you guys were giving them the revenue they needed. Gem buyers are the reason we didn’t get an expansion for 3 years.

Gw2 did come out with only 5 character slots but the amount of content that we got justified that. The amount of content we are getting, from what we have seen, is not nearly worth the price tag so we cant compare the two.

If Anet sells fewer HoT pre-purchases than expected, they’ll spend more time on development. This is the reason there’s been no release date, if they sell a million copies now, they can just give you whatever is ready and not refine/add content. Why do you think GW2 shipped with such a lack of features? It’s because they sold so many copies it wasn’t necessary to add more.
http://techland.time.com/2012/08/28/guild-wars-2-sales-one-million-pre-served-record-400000-playing-at-once/

You take kitten way to literal. I spent money because I had faith in Anet but they proved me wrong. I’m not saying they owe me anything.

chemiclord.3978:

But put a bonus slot in the basic package, and this entire kittenstorm vanishes over kittening night. I promise you. Your problem is now solved. Smack some heads together at NCSoft and get it done.

That’s a little bit of an over simplification, there are 3 separate issues.
1. The basic version does not come with a character slot which many felt it should.
2. The vanilla game bonus is completely lost to players who already own the game.
3. The price for one or more of the versions is felt to be excessive.

Accounting for all three to properly “fix” the problem as best as possible the following changes would be needed.

Basic version:
-Character slot added (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)

Deluxe:
-Second character slot added (to maintain the relative value to the basic version) (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)
-Price reduction or addition of value (P3)

Ultimate:
-Second character slot added (to maintain the relative value to the basic version) (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)
-Price reduction (I don’t actually mind the price on this one since the only benefit is the gems) (P3)

papry.8096:

chemiclord.3978:

Can we just all be perfectly honest with ourselves here?

Simple I don’t like to be treated as an under consumer. So anet give me a fair deal.
That fair deal being in the form a character slot/gems/ i do not care.
But not that crap when I don’t get what is described in the product description.
Because: *you already have an account.

What coming next ?
You can’t buy this armor on the cashshop you don’t have enough medium armor character.
You can’t have this mini on the cashshop you already own too much.
kittenmit.

In this case, they are actually letting you buy the core game, the problem is you’re buying the game you already have. In your example, it would be more like if they decided to release a new medium armor in the cash shop, but it came with all the previous armor skins for free, which you already have and which are account bound. Then after you bought the new skin, you found out that you don’t actually get the codes for all the skins you already have, so you can gift them or whatever, you only get the skins you don’t already have. This basically tells you that the value of all the skins you previously purchased with gems is 0 gems, no matter how much you might have paid for it.

And that kind of gets to the heart of what bugs a lot of people about this. It’s that sort of itch in the back of people’s brain when they see that ANet completely removed the core game from their sale page and replaced it with HoT (+the core game for new players only). Anet is essentially saying to all Veteran players “We believe that Heart of Thorns is worth $50, all by itself. The game you purchased from us 2-3 years ago, however, called Guild Wars 2, has fallen in value. It is now worth $0. That’s right, we now view that purchase you made from us years ago as completely worthless.”

I’m sure this was not what they intended, but subconsciously, this is what a lot of people heard or read when they started explaining how the packages work. Heart of Thorns = $50. Previous Guild Wars 2 purchases = Worthless.

chemiclord.3978:

Can we just all be perfectly honest with ourselves here?

I suspect, the bulk of the complaints REALLY centers around the base edition not getting a bonus character slot. Let’s cut through the noise and just say it outright.

“Veteran” players want a kittening character slot, because they’ve filled all their slots and don’t feel they should have to buy another one on top of the expansion to play a Revenant. They feel this is cheap because GW1 handed out slots to play with in each expansion.

So can we just SAY THAT? Can we stop trying to couch it in bullkitten so that we don’t sound like “entitled brats?” Rather than run around in stupid circles over legality, quibbling semantics over whether or not the core game is actually “free” or “not free”… just say what we want here.

Arena.net. We players want a kittening character slot in the basic package. And ya know what? Most of us don’t even give a kitten if “new” players get that bonus character slot too (this entire fairness bullkitten is just another way to avoid sounding entitled to a character slot).

Yes, there’s still going to be those perpetually kitten that will never shut up about whatever perceived slight has triggered their rage bone or will always whine about the cash shop being the devil that is ruining gaming… but they’ll be relegated to the background noise again.

But put a bonus slot in the basic package, and this entire kittenstorm vanishes over kittening night. I promise you. Your problem is now solved. Smack some heads together at NCSoft and get it done.

To me it’s clearly not just about the bonus character slot as I’ve explained above. As a PvP player, it comes down to me paying $ 50 for a new profession and elite specialization. Nothing else will be new or different. Stronghold will be available to all.

If you think an additional char slot can make up for that? (Besides that I already have 20 char slots, what difference would 1 slot make)….

Otokomae.9356:

In this case, they are actually letting you buy the core game, the problem is you’re buying the game you already have. In your example, it would be more like if they decided to release a new medium armor in the cash shop, but it came with all the previous armor skins for free, which you already have and which are account bound. Then after you bought the new skin, you found out that you don’t actually get the codes for all the skins you already have, so you can gift them or whatever, you only get the skins you don’t already have. This basically tells you that the value of all the skins you previously purchased with gems is 0 gems, no matter how much you might have paid for it.

Let’s be frank; I don’t care about the situation; I was just highlighting the stupidity of the offer.

Conski Deshan.2057:

chemiclord.3978:

But put a bonus slot in the basic package, and this entire kittenstorm vanishes over kittening night. I promise you. Your problem is now solved. Smack some heads together at NCSoft and get it done.

That’s a little bit of an over simplification, there are 3 separate issues.
1. The basic version does not come with a character slot which many felt it should.
2. The vanilla game bonus is completely lost to players who already own the game.
3. The price for one or more of the versions is felt to be excessive.

Accounting for all three to properly “fix” the problem as best as possible the following changes would be needed.

Basic version:
-Character slot added (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)

Deluxe:
-Second character slot added (to maintain the relative value to the basic version) (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)
-Price reduction or addition of value (P3)

Ultimate:
-Second character slot added (to maintain the relative value to the basic version) (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)
-Price reduction (I don’t actually mind the price on this one since the only benefit is the gems) (P3)

Good suggestions there. But i’d still consider that a wrong approach, knowing what ArenaNet would do in the past when releasing an expansion. It really felt like an expansion, rather than just some reworks and new features and adding a new explorable area….

Instead of adding 800 gems, make the price at least $10-20 less (entice your players to buy gems they really want, if they want, not forcing people to overpay and just add some virtual currency)

CrimsonDX.4821:

The funny thing about all of this is that you people are complaining about Anet betraying you when it is most likely NCsoft, not Anet, are the ones who determine pricing and things like this. NCsoft is a Korean company, and respecting customers is not something they do in Korea.

The company I work for is owned by another company.
But when a customer comes to the door, or calls in, you bet your kitten I fix their problem(s) because it’s my kitten job!

Yes, there are strict margins to meet, and guidelines to follow.

but you know who gets fired? The guy who loses customers, whether he followed the guidelines or not.

you know who get a raise and the corner office? The guy who pointed out the problem with the guidelines that were preventing growth; and then signed a large account or valuable retainer(s) as a result.

In the end it is Arenanet’s problem, NOT NCSoft’s, to generate product, profit, hype, and to solve problems. NCSoft provides nothing but capitol, budgets, and goals in order to maintain overall success across all entities they own. As a result they likely have a set of strict rules and guidelines, BUT it is Arenanet’s responsibility to act a liaison between their source of revenue and their source of capitol. This may mean some disgruntled customers, OR a disgruntled parent company.

I just hope they think we as customers are worth it. And go to battle under our banner. I also hope, and truly feel, that we as a strong community of players will make that potential fight have an outcome in Arenanet’s favor.

Heck, if it came out that people at arenanet went out on a limb for us, the customers, and as a result got dropped by NCSoft and went out on an independent venture a mass of people would gladly flock to their new game on principle alone. Voting with their wallets, just as we are now.

Knighthonor.4061:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

The Siege of Thorns continues. What day is it now? 4th? 5th? Don’t let up. They’re going to send a kitten out sooner or later..

That June 23rd trait patch drama will overshadow all this Price drama. Watch…

At least that’s what they’re hoping for.

This is whole fiasco is probably the SINGLE most disappointed thing I’ve seen from ANet.

You know as a GW1 player when GW2 was announced I was a total fanboi and never hesitated to jump on the GW2 bandwagon. However, if in the future GW3 is announced my first thought would be ‘maybe’.

ANet has changed a lot since it’s GW1 days.

Beast Sos.1457:

Beast Sos.1457:

If I want to play all the content in the expansion I’m going to have to pay $60. Why might you ask, because if I want to play all the content that is going to be released I have to buy another character slot. Don’t come on and tell me, “well you can convert gold to gems!”. All that is saying is Anet doesnt give 2 kittens about my time even though I’m spending $50 on top of the few hundred I invested in the game(gems to gold). And no I didnt need the gold I just wanted to support a company that I thought had the players best interests in mind, which, evidently, is far from the truth.

data.4093:

You thought a subsidiary of a publicly owned corporation cared about giving you free stuff? And you gave them money for things you didn’t need expecting them to reciprocate? Did you have a contract? I still find it laughable that players assumed Anet needed cash when they were making money from the cash shop…Anet never considered an expansion because you guys were giving them the revenue they needed. Gem buyers are the reason we didn’t get an expansion for 3 years.

You take kitten way to literal. I spent money because I had faith in Anet but they proved me wrong. I’m not saying they owe me anything.

Relevance in bold.

I don’t believe money is the issue for most people, it’s the idea that it’s completely unnecessary to package the 2 together.

Anet, you already offered a $10 deal for the game a few months back after HoT was announced. Everybody who didn’t have the game at that point who wanted to partake in HoT already bought it at $10. There will be so very few people who are coming to this game as a newbie at the moment, so packaging the core game with the expansion is redundant.

Simple solution:

Expansion only $39
next upgrade $59
Ultimate upgrade $79

Core game included, keep the pricing as it is now; however, allow the people who already own the game to buy it at a cheaper rate. Do this sooner rather than later because the longer you let this go on, the people that do buy it will have huge reason to complain if/when things cheapen.

Conski Deshan.2057:

That’s a little bit of an over simplification, there are 3 separate issues.
1. The basic version does not come with a character slot which many felt it should.
2. The vanilla game bonus is completely lost to players who already own the game.
3. The price for one or more of the versions is felt to be excessive.

Accounting for all three to properly “fix” the problem as best as possible the following changes would be needed.

Basic version:
-Character slot added (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)

Deluxe:
-Second character slot added (to maintain the relative value to the basic version) (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)
-Price reduction or addition of value (P3)

Ultimate:
-Second character slot added (to maintain the relative value to the basic version) (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)
-Price reduction (I don’t actually mind the price on this one since the only benefit is the gems) (P3)

There’s also the fact that those who very recently got the game purchased it thinking it was needed for the expansion. They are offering a refund but you must delete your account I believe.

When I first saw some of the HoT talk I got really excited and decided to come back to GW2 after a year off to get back into it before HoT came out. Than my wife decided she wanted to play so I read the FAQ and it said you would need the base game to play GW2 so a couple of weeks a go we buy GW2 for her so we could play together. Now I come to find out that if we had only waited we could have bought HoT and got GW2 for free with it, but instead we dropped $40 two weeks again for GW2 and now if we want to continue playing we have to spend another $50 on her account and another $50 on my account so basicly we are out $40. This is just bull and I think we will move on to another game.

data.4093:

Beast Sos.1457:

Beast Sos.1457:

If I want to play all the content in the expansion I’m going to have to pay $60. Why might you ask, because if I want to play all the content that is going to be released I have to buy another character slot. Don’t come on and tell me, “well you can convert gold to gems!”. All that is saying is Anet doesnt give 2 kittens about my time even though I’m spending $50 on top of the few hundred I invested in the game(gems to gold). And no I didnt need the gold I just wanted to support a company that I thought had the players best interests in mind, which, evidently, is far from the truth.

data.4093:

You thought a subsidiary of a publicly owned corporation cared about giving you free stuff? And you gave them money for things you didn’t need expecting them to reciprocate? Did you have a contract? I still find it laughable that players assumed Anet needed cash when they were making money from the cash shop…Anet never considered an expansion because you guys were giving them the revenue they needed. Gem buyers are the reason we didn’t get an expansion for 3 years.

You take kitten way to literal. I spent money because I had faith in Anet but they proved me wrong. I’m not saying they owe me anything.

Relevance in bold.

All I am saying is Anet doesnt give 2 kittens about our time even for those who put money into the game…

Oh guys, since it was brought up in this thread a while back that some third party “stores” are selling it too I wanted to bring this to attention in case anyone hasn’t seen this yet:

Chris Cleary.8017:

Hey all,

Heart of Thorns is currently only available offically to purchase through our purchase site and in-game through the gem store. There have been a number of 3rd Party websites/services offereing Heart of Thorns for sale, and many of them are currently not officially authorized to do so.

These sites are most likely getting their keys through fraudulent practices, which means there is a VERY high chance that if you purchase from these websites that the key will be disabled shortly after. This will result in your account being closed for fraud, and Customer Service will require that you purchase HoT though legitimate means before you can access your account again.

For your account’s sake, please be careful when purchasing your HoT key through a non officially authorized 3rd party.

To clarify:
The only way to officially Pre-Purchase right now is through the official GW2 website, or in-game. This does not cover Pre-Ordering, which may exist on a number of reputable resellers. Pre-Purchase and Pre-Order are different.

https://www.guildwars2.com/retailers/
Here you can find a list of authorized retailers

(Btw, just re-passing the message, not going to buy it any time soon :P)

Beast Sos.1457:

A few months before Gw2 was released we knew enough to justify the price. There was a ton of content they were talking about and a huge opened world. We didnt need every last detail. I will wait to see if more content will be released that justifies the price. I most likely will buy HoT either way its not like I’m broke but it still kittenes me off that they pulled such a ugly move.

No, we didn’t. We knew what they told us, but it was all vaporware so far. The pre-purchase was available in April 2012; the game didn’t come out until August.

I get that you are dissatisfied with the what they’ve told us to-date and that’s fine. But I’m not sure why you think they are intentionally trying to pull a fast one on us. ANet has always been terrible about hyping their own successes; this is just another example.

One of the “Core Problems” here, in my opinion, is that they’re now saying that after only a few years, our original purchase of Guild Wars 2 has a value of $0. The game is essentially free, since it can no longer be purchased, and is now part of a package (not “bundle”) that we are required to purchase in order to enjoy the same basic “ever changing world” that we promised (in a “manifesto”, nonetheless) when we bought the game initially.
I see this as being very similar to when a Buy-To-Play game goes Free-To-Play after a few months or years. In each and every case I can find, however, when a paid game in has gone Free-To-Play, people who purchased the game beforehand have been given some sort of compensation to make up for their initial purchase, which was now unnecessary. Sometimes they get a few free months in a new, optional subscription service; sometimes it’s a few free exclusive skins, or a couple of free dungeon packs, or whatever. But in this case, those of us who bought the game are being offered NOTHING to compensate for our initial purchase, which has been rendered worthless by a new policy of giving it away by the company we purchased it from.
Now I know this isn’t exactly the same, because GW2 is not actually Free-To-Play (thank god), this case is somewhat unprecedented. Paid games going Free-To-Play is the closest analogy I could think of for what’s really bothering me about this. I mean, Heart of Thorns cost $50. For everyone. The core game is “Free” to anyone who buys it… unless they already bought it, in which case they get nothing extra. So the game is Free, but not Free-To-Play as there is still a paywall. It’s weird. But I feel that by making the core game “Free” with NO NOTICE, people who bought the game do deserve some compensation, along the lines of people who bought, say, The Secret World, which is Buy-To-Play, but when they dropped their sub (and the price of the game) they gave people free subs to their optional sub service (TSW had a “Lifetime Subscription” option when it came out, after all). Or ESO, which literally paid players 500 crowns each the first time they logged in after they dropped their subscription. Again, these examples aren’t identical, because GW2 has always had a unique Buy-To-Play model, but they are similar in a way. If the core game is now “Free”, and only free, even if it’s behind a paywall, it is not unreasonable for people who bought the game to feel that they should be compensated for the perceived loss of value in the game that they purchased, since that loss of value is a direct result of the a new policy instituted by the company that sold it to them.
I don’t exactly know how to fix this, what the compensation should be; heck, I might be completely wrong here, even. But it feels like my $60 purchase has seen its value drop to $0 now that the only option Anet has is to receive the same core game for Free, even if you do have to buy something else to get it. Especially since I’m now obligated to buy that same expansion for full price, if I want to continue to enjoy the same, regular updates that were promised during the game’s initial release.

For Canadians, they’re actually spending roughly $74 for the expansion and a game they already own, so basically they are paying $74 for a expansion.

Now I havn’t played every game out there, can someone point to a game where an expac cost $74?

They need to reassure players that they are getting what they are paying for with this:

Do a poi episode or something covering the general amount of content that will be coming in the expansion. They don’t even need to be extremely detailed or anything, just a teaser sort of thing:

“Here is a glimpse at the areas in the expansion and some of the challenges you’ll be facing:
show a clip of the map panning, cutting to some of different areas events and stuff as the map pans across each area, end with the big baddie of this xpac roaring in into the camera sort of thing

They should also give the players who already have the game purchasing the xpac a few extra bonuses too. At least the “get 800 extra gems if already have the base game” would be easy enough to do and really wouldn’t cost anet/ncsoft that much, if anything…

I don’t think of this whole situation as a “lol veteran players feel entitled” thing, but more of a “ncsoft already has our money, so now they can tell us to f-off.”

Personally, I’m just really cautious of dlc and “xpacs” lately because many of them over the last few years have felt almost like scams. Either severely lacking in content, overcharging players because the publisher/etc. knows people will pay for it anyways because of some sort of social apathy towards what they are actually purchasing (essentially buying it “just because”), nickel and diming players, etc.

Some games have even called their dlc “expansions”; which traditionally has denoted a large addition to a game, often close to the scale of the original release. DLC on the other hand has traditionally been extras that weren’t added to the game originally either in the form of things they devs cut out because of time/resource constraints, the additional content just didn’t fit into the atmosphere they wanted the core game to have, etc. (extra costumes, weapon skins, new pvp maps etc.). Since DLC usually involves smaller additions to the game they usually cost less ($5-10 for a couple of extra pvp maps, skins, etc.), whereas expansions being somewhat close to the scale of the original game, often cost closer to the original cost of the game itself.

However, recently publishers/devs have been blurring the line between these two or even outright ignoring it. The developer Bungie for example, released “The Dark Below” for Destiny as their first “expansion.” This “expansion” included:

• a grand total of like 30 min of poorly written story (well, at least from what players can tell; poorly implemented at the very least)
• one new strike (two if on playstation because of the kittening contest that is “timed exclusives” that xbox and playstation like to have). For those who haven’t played, a strike is almost exactly the equivalent of a single AC dungeon path in gw2.
• One new raid (A slightly more interesting version of a strike and only very slightly more difficult)
• Three pvp maps that very, very, very rarely pop in map rotation, if at all (I haven’t even played on two of them, and I have played my fair share of pvp in destiny).
  All for the low price of 20 dollars! (If I remember right there was something about the UK or Aus price ending up being like the equivalent of $35 US?)

That’s juts one example of a game “expansion/dlc” that left a bad taste (though there are many others).

I’m just hoping that Anet/NCSoft doesn’t pull a bungie/activision and release something that is the equivalent of like 10% of the original game, while charging us for much more than we actually receive.

The forums was offline for nearly a day, and when it came back up, every HoT rage/qq thread was merged here.

Was this Anet’s answer to everyone?

You have a complaint? We’ll just drown you out with everyone else.

There’s over 90 pages here, I can’t possibly follow all the conversations. Are you telling me that someone from Anet is? Why have a forum for feedback if you don’t actually want the feedback?

ChoChoBo.6503:

The forums was offline for nearly a day, and when it came back up, every HoT rage/qq thread was merged here.

Was this Anet’s answer to everyone?

You have a complaint? We’ll just drown you out with everyone else.

There’s over 90 pages here, I can’t possibly follow all the conversations. Are you telling me that someone from Anet is? Why have a forum for feedback if you don’t actually want the feedback?

You don’t have to follow the conversations, they are all the same. It’s actually a good thing that it gets merged. It’s easier to judge the size of the kittenpile they have created and determine how much attention they have to give to it.

Personally I hope this thread gets to be 1000 pages long

ChoChoBo.6503:

The forums was offline for nearly a day, and when it came back up, every HoT rage/qq thread was merged here.

Was this Anet’s answer to everyone?

You have a complaint? We’ll just drown you out with everyone else.

There’s over 90 pages here, I can’t possibly follow all the conversations. Are you telling me that someone from Anet is? Why have a forum for feedback if you don’t actually want the feedback?

yes, they keep consolidating the posts, and it feels like it’s being done on purpose. i expect they’ll merge the already merged posts about a character slot in the expansion…

yorick.1305:

Tranquilnelf.1258:

mrstealth.6701:

Tranquilnelf.1258:

The point , that a lot of people, including myself are making, is that there is a much higher value being offered to brand new players for their $50 spend.

Agreed , that the base game is not being charged, and that the price tag is for the expansion only, but if you consider the value offered to new players vs the value offered to old gamer, there is a huge apparent difference.

It’s a fairly safe assumption to say that the base game is not free. It doesn’t really make any sense to say that Anet, over the course of a single day was willing to change their perceived value of the core game from being $40(or $10) to $0. If they did indeed value their game at $0, they would have no issues with giving that “free” copy to all existing players that buy HoT.

This is true. The current market value of the core GW 2 game is certainly not free. As a separate product it does indeed have a non zero price tag, just that when it comes bundled with HoT expansion it seems to be offered as a massive 100% discount.
It’s good for new players, and I love that ANet is offering such a deal. For the new player, they get all the core game, all the original LS content plus a new expansion all in the same price. For the existing player however it does leave a slight sour taste in the mouth

I just hope there is enough of the expansion to justify the price instead.

‘……….all the original LS content’

wha………. ALL?!

Surely not.

They had a sale for that recently, and some of us mugs paid gems for it.

I think I might have missed that. In which case that may be the case for the new players too , i.e. they will have to purchase Living Story with gems. Surely they haven’t discounted that as well… …. If not, then, that’s just a slap in the face …

~TNE

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Beast Sos.1457:

A few months before Gw2 was released we knew enough to justify the price. There was a ton of content they were talking about and a huge opened world. We didnt need every last detail. I will wait to see if more content will be released that justifies the price. I most likely will buy HoT either way its not like I’m broke but it still kittenes me off that they pulled such a ugly move.

No, we didn’t. We knew what they told us, but it was all vaporware so far. The pre-purchase was available in April 2012; the game didn’t come out until August.

I get that you are dissatisfied with the what they’ve told us to-date and that’s fine. But I’m not sure why you think they are intentionally trying to pull a fast one on us. ANet has always been terrible about hyping their own successes; this is just another example.

Months before this announcement everyone single person on the forums voted for a extra character slot with the expansion. They heard us thats a given but we still got squat. On top of that they put kitten price tag on a expansion that, for all we know, as not enough content to justify the price. It also seems like the price is so high not because of the expansion but because the core game is coming with it. I know I know, Anet said the core game is coming with it for “free” but thats just a good marketing ploy. They are, imo, charging us at least a extra $10 for the core game. Also, by not adding the character slot to the standard addition just shows me even more that they are trying to milk us as much as possible for this expansion.

Lets say there are 1.2 mil players playing gw2 each month, even though we know they sold more than 4 mil copies. Thats at least 500k character slots needed. Where does one get character slots? The gem shop. Lets say 250k people use irl money to buy a character slot. Thats 2.5mil just from character slots. But how do people convert gold to gems? By other people buying gems so there is another 2.5mil for Anet JUST because they didnt add a character slot to the standard addition.

mrstealth.6701:

Hidden Dragon.7523:

- Factions/Nightfalls gave us multiple new PvP maps and systems such as Alliance Battles/Hero Battles for example -> Okay so we get Stronghold, 1 map, with a game-mode which kind of looks like GvG which is another thing which the game lacked right from the start – and should be a standard content update rather than being something expansion worthy.

The funny (and sad) part is that Stronghold isn’t even part of Heart of Thorns. It’s been added along with HoT’s release, but it’s for everyone. The gametype doesn’t even get its own queue, so any time any player queues for PvP they can end up in a stronghold game.

The same goes for the new WvW borderland, which is being marketed as a HoT feature, despite being available to all players.

So there’s two major “HoT features” that aren’t even part of HoT at all. They are free updates for all players.

I was, ironically, thinking the same thing. My buddy and I were chatting about the prices of the bundles of HoT and I was like, “Look at all the new content!!” He was like, “A good portion of that is being released anyways..” Then I got too thinking. If you buy the in-game HoT pre-purchase.. you clearly don’t need the core game.. Cuz you already have it.. Duh? So if I pay the same and get less in the deal, aren’t I being cheated? Don’t even offer a cheaper in-game price to those who already have the game? What is this nonsense? Anet hasn’t stated that we will get enough content to match the Core games content. They haven’t stated much really. I use too want them to add an extra character slot for the Veteran Players, but after hearing the argument, I quickly changed my tune to be for 800 gems which can pay for the character slot OR buy something else for those that have plenty of character slots and do not need one. EVERYONE WINS! At the amount of content HoT has currently, it is not worth $50. Maybe $20-$25. With extras, maybe $40. If they have a LOT of extra content then it MIGHT be worth $50 but the deal for Veteran Players non-withstanding. But Anet shutting down negotiations by locking in prices.. That’s just the bottom of the cesspits. But I do believe it is the fault of the overhead companies like NEXON and NCSOFT. They are screwing the players of all variety because of their greed. I am fully aware of the need for a business to make money, and I support it! But, through attempting to scam and slither between your biggest fans is a nasty way to lose your business..

PorceleinEve.2973:

ChoChoBo.6503:

The forums was offline for nearly a day, and when it came back up, every HoT rage/qq thread was merged here.

Was this Anet’s answer to everyone?

You have a complaint? We’ll just drown you out with everyone else.

There’s over 90 pages here, I can’t possibly follow all the conversations. Are you telling me that someone from Anet is? Why have a forum for feedback if you don’t actually want the feedback?

yes, they keep consolidating the posts, and it feels like it’s being done on purpose. i expect they’ll merge the already merged posts about a character slot in the expansion…

It’s a common thing for Anet to do. Merge any topic remotely related to some negative subject spread across the forums into a single thread. I can understand some of it, but topics about very specific related issues always seem to get swept up with it.

When even the threads that don’t deserve a merger start getting piled up together, you know Anet is in damage control mode and attempting to contain the bad PR. A single topic is much easier to overlook.

In this case, it’s far too late for that to help them. It’s all over their social media, reddit is up in arms, and even mainstream gaming news outlets like PCGamer are running articles.

Mom and dad won’t let me get HOT unless I get another core game. Can the purchase include the key code for core game?

littlebabyprincess.9786:

Mom and dad won’t let me get HOT unless I get another core game. Can the purchase include the key code for core game?

No, you get one serial code that applies to both.

Unfortunately, people keep creating new threads instead of discussing the topic here.
If people want to make a lot of noise post hundreds of multiple threads.
If people want to be heard post here where it’s been indicated the “team” is supposedly following along.

Hopefully they are following this thread, weeding out the greiffer comments, and preparing to make some kind of appropriate communication, and take appropriate action.

Here’s to hoping it’s resolved Monday in some form or fashion.
Tomorrow? Go buy your dad a tie, or a. nice pair of socks. Cliche, but seriously, find me a dad who doesn’t like a tie and/or socks!

And then after enjoying that which is the world of ties, socks, grilling, and a game of catch… Announce the following:

“In hindsight, we will provide existing players with an additional core key that they may gift, or use themselves”
OR
“We will now be including an additional 2400 gems for all existing players that purchase(d)”

Out of curiosity, how would people feel if at release the base package sold included 5 character slots for free? As an incentive to increase the population in HoT content and a gift to people new to HoT.

I get the whole bit about wanting a free character slot with the basic package, but people complaining about paying $50 for an expansion of a MMORPG with no monthly fee. I am willing to throw down cash that 90% of the people complaining buy gems with in game gold, or at least haven’t spent over $20 Real world money in the gem store. . .You sound like entitled brats. The $50 dollar price is fair. Think of it as paying the monthly fee for the last however many years you have been playing. Even then you would have payed a lot more in subscription fees in a lot of cases(Like people who have been playing since GW2’s launch).

I also have read things about the Final Fantasy expansion being $40. . .They also have to pay a subscription fee. WoW expansions were about $40 at time of each release, plus the subscription fee. Do any of you know how much goes into development? Server maintenance? $50 is a small price compare to other MM The only thing I agree on is that all versions of the EXP should come with at least one free character slot(Maybe 1 for the basic, 2 for Deluxe and ultimate. . .Or just one across the board.)

No you are not paying for GW2 twice, you are buying the kitten ed expansion, noobs get the core for free, which is good. We have an awesome community, the best in any MMO I have played as of late. I am proud of our community(Not when this topic comes up though.). If this monumental fail of a topic was not an issue, you all are likely great people to game with. . .Hell I may have played or talked in map chat with a few of you in the Silverwastes,Lion’s Arch, WvW, or World Boss Runs. So Decide, buy it, or don’t. . .Just stop ruining the forums, and map chat. If you have issues take them up with support.

This is all I want to say regarding this topic. I will not argue with anyone about this, so if that is your intent, do not expect me to reply. Though I hope to see you in game.

The reason, why people keep on thinking the core game has to have some value is
a) because to them it had and
b) the expansion is too small for $50.

Its actually really that simple.

Now, the door is shut, the horse is gone. The only things left for Anet to do are:
a) Either reduce price on purchase of expansion or
b) pad the release with character slot etc. or
c) increase content by at least 20%.

It will be interesting to see what Anet will do.

edit:
Oh I forgot d) make pre-purchase / early purchase unresistable to most by adding huge amounts of ap only available to those buying expansion before they have to drop price.

Wanna bet its gonna be a mix of all four?

Lyger.5429:

Conski Deshan.2057:

That’s a little bit of an over simplification, there are 3 separate issues.
1. The basic version does not come with a character slot which many felt it should.
2. The vanilla game bonus is completely lost to players who already own the game.
3. The price for one or more of the versions is felt to be excessive.

Accounting for all three to properly “fix” the problem as best as possible the following changes would be needed.

Basic version:
-Character slot added (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)

Deluxe:
-Second character slot added (to maintain the relative value to the basic version) (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)
-Price reduction or addition of value (P3)

Ultimate:
-Second character slot added (to maintain the relative value to the basic version) (P1)
-Gift for owners of the game already, Either the vanilla key or 800 gems would be considered the acceptable alternative (P2)
-Price reduction (I don’t actually mind the price on this one since the only benefit is the gems) (P3)

There’s also the fact that those who very recently got the game purchased it thinking it was needed for the expansion. They are offering a refund but you must delete your account I believe.

I think if they had that bonus for those that already owned the game there would be a whole lot less refunds/people needing to close the account they just got. the suggestions above sound about right to me.

If you think about it, many of us spend a good $50 heck, even $60 on a new game. Take Fallout 4 for example. If they had announced Fallout 4 a day before it released, no one would need to know ANY details about the game because players know Bethesda and they know that they truly deliver on their games. Players trust Bethesda which in turn makes them LOTS of money.

Maybe the real issue here in our community, isn’t that the price is “too high” or that vets aren’t getting enough freebies. Maybe it’s all a matter of a degraded trust between us, the playerbase and ANet over the last couple years.

Truly this isn’t the first time the community has been toxic, look back at the gem to gold conversion back last summer. The rage was very toxic then and it all came down to us being angry over communication issues. Shortly after that degradation of trust we had the game developers conference where a couple of devs said that there weren’t any current plans for SAB at this time. The community once again absolutely boiled over in toxic hate and rage, due solely, in my opinion, to a further eroding trust between silent devs and a playerbase that was tired of being kept in the dark.

Now fast forward to now. We have been conditioned to fall into a hype cycle where things are overhyped and underdelivered. Can anyone really blame the state of the community? Is anyone really surprised? If you look at the history between ANet and us, the players, the trust has been eroding for quite some time. I think this may finally have been the straw that broke the camels back….

I hate to see our community the way it is, but ANet’s silence doesn’t help anything either. The longer they prolong a response to very valid anger and rage, the harder it will be to build that trust again with the devs.

So I believe that this isn’t a price issue, it’s an issue of trust between the community and ANet. I really hope that trust can be restored, cause that is what will keep this game successful and profitable.

Null Shock.3745:

I get the whole bit about wanting a free character slot with the basic package, but people complaining about paying $50 for an expansion of a MMORPG with no monthly fee. I am willing to throw down cash that 90% of the people complaining buy gems with in game gold, or at least haven’t spent over $20 Real world money in the gem store. . .You sound like entitled brats. The $50 dollar price is fair. Think of it as paying the monthly fee for the last however many years you have been playing. Even then you would have payed a lot more in subscription fees in a lot of cases(Like people who have been playing since GW2’s launch).

Actually, we don’t really have any information about what this expansion includes, so calling $50 a fair price is extremely premature. I’ll bet that opinion would quickly change if HoT’s pve content turns out to be just 2 maps, or even worse, only Verdant Brink. So far, Verdant Brink and the first story instance are the only bits of content anyone is aware of. If there is $50 worth of content in there, why aren’t they hyping that up, instead of hyping features that we all get without HoT?

It also doesn’t matter if you buy gems with cash or gold, both methods support Anet and give them money. The gem exchange is based on the supply of players buying gems with cash to sell for gold, and the demand of players buying gems with gold to buy ingame items. Every gold->gem exchange serves to increase the gold value of gems, making gem->gold exchanges more tempting for those purchasing with cash.

As for my spending, I’ve bought gems with both cash and gold. After spending $120 for the collector’s edition, buying their charr plushy, and the GW2 artbook, I also dropped at least $60 on gems in the first month the game was out. Plus all of the gems I’ve bought since.

And I spent even more on GW1. Collectors editions for 2 of the 3 campaigns, 2 accounts will all content bought, over 20 characters slots purchased in addition to the ones included with those games. I bought every cosmetic thing they put in the ingame store, and every other extra bonus item that was sold in it. I even supported the soundtrack’s composer and bought every available piece for GW1 and the GW2 sountrack.

I’d say I’ve put at least $1000 into this game franchise. But ok, I’m entitled apparently.

The only thing I’m entitled to is being treated fairly and equally as a customer, and being given honest information about the products I’m being asked to purchase. And yes, I am entitled to these things because their are laws to ensure that all consumers are.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

Null Shock.3745:

I get the whole bit about wanting a free character slot with the basic package, but people complaining about paying $50 for an expansion of a MMORPG with no monthly fee. I am willing to throw down cash that 90% of the people complaining buy gems with in game gold, or at least haven’t spent over $20 Real world money in the gem store. . .You sound like entitled brats. The $50 dollar price is fair. Think of it as paying the monthly fee for the last however many years you have been playing. Even then you would have payed a lot more in subscription fees in a lot of cases(Like people who have been playing since GW2’s launch).

I also have read things about the Final Fantasy expansion being $40. . .They also have to pay a subscription fee. WoW expansions were about $40 at time of each release, plus the subscription fee. Do any of you know how much goes into development? Server maintenance? $50 is a small price compare to other MM The only thing I agree on is that all versions of the EXP should come with at least one free character slot(Maybe 1 for the basic, 2 for Deluxe and ultimate. . .Or just one across the board.)

No you are not paying for GW2 twice, you are buying the kitten ed expansion, noobs get the core for free, which is good. We have an awesome community, the best in any MMO I have played as of late. I am proud of our community(Not when this topic comes up though.). If this monumental fail of a topic was not an issue, you all are likely great people to game with. . .Hell I may have played or talked in map chat with a few of you in the Silverwastes,Lion’s Arch, WvW, or World Boss Runs. So Decide, buy it, or don’t. . .Just stop ruining the forums, and map chat. If you have issues take them up with support.

This is all I want to say regarding this topic. I will not argue with anyone about this, so if that is your intent, do not expect me to reply. Though I hope to see you in game.

The “server maintenance” argument is flawed. Countless studies have proven this, yes, I’m too lazy to post a link (much in the same way you were too lazy to do the research)
Cost of on release core + HoT vs WoW w/draenor and sub about the same. As sub isn’t even necessary with WoW anymore and you can buy game time with gold. Even with sub its 11¢ more per month for WoW than GW.
A good portion of people don’t feel price is the issue.
I’m also glad new players have additional incentive to buy HoT.
It would just so happen I think my Ulysses is worth just as much as a new players. It seems to be EVERYWHERE else in the world.
Exceptions being when it comes to subscription services. But this is rather vehemently not a subscription, and thus shouldn’t share similarities.

The community manager said 3 or 4 days ago that they’re listening.

Yet still no reponse. To me that’s the equivalent of asking to speak to a supervisor and the attendant saying ‘sure!’ walk off, and never return.

Simple “server maintenance” cost research.
Aion, Wildstar (soon), Lineage, Guild Wars.
None of these have sub fees. None of these are selling very many copies. It is not costly to “maintain servers”

ANet’s community participation and openness to feedback from the playerbase has been pretty bad since GW2 beta. I was very wary when they refused to listen to constructive criticism during the beta, and it’s only gotten worse since. I’ve said again and again, they need someone to fill Gaile’s old role as the point of contact for players. Even if all they said was ’I’m sorry, but I’m not allowed to tell you anything more,’ that would be MUCH better than the silence we’ve been getting.

Blazing Liger.1236:

ANet’s community participation and openness to feedback from the playerbase has been pretty bad since GW2 beta. I was very wary when they refused to listen to constructive criticism during the beta, and it’s only gotten worse since. I’ve said again and again, they need someone to fill Gaile’s old role as the point of contact for players. Even if all they said was ’I’m sorry, but I’m not allowed to tell you anything more,’ that would be MUCH better than the silence we’ve been getting.

No that wouldent help at all if they cant tell us anything they stay silent.
Having someone throw out one liners that they cant speak do not help the issues.

Sorry, Ms. Buenaobra, but I have problems with that explanation. If the base game were actually a free “bonus” with purchase of Heart of Thorns, the base game would still have to be available for a standalone price. It is not.

If Heart of Thorns is being valued at $50, that means the core game is valued at nothing. If that were the case, the core game should be available free to download. Therefore, Heart of Thorns itself has to be valued at 50-$Standard, but $Standard doesn’t exist.

There is no way to buy just the standard game anymore.

I don’t have any issue with new players getting it bundled in.

But if it can’t be unbundled, then just say what it is. It’s a standalone. Saying that you need the core game in order to play the expansion for literally months in advance, and then making the expansion the new standard edition is just unprofessional.

Anyone who is getting a refund because of this is losing access to the account they’ve had for up to 3 months, because apparently that’s just how refunds “work” here. If they don’t want to lose access to everything they’ve bought and/or accomplished in that time period, ANET is making an additional $10-$40 off of those people.

EDIT: A wild kitten appeared!

Linken.6345:

Blazing Liger.1236:

ANet’s community participation and openness to feedback from the playerbase has been pretty bad since GW2 beta. I was very wary when they refused to listen to constructive criticism during the beta, and it’s only gotten worse since. I’ve said again and again, they need someone to fill Gaile’s old role as the point of contact for players. Even if all they said was ’I’m sorry, but I’m not allowed to tell you anything more,’ that would be MUCH better than the silence we’ve been getting.

No that wouldent help at all if they cant tell us anything they stay silent.
Having someone throw out one liners that they cant speak do not help the issues.

It’s better than implying complete ignorance. If they explain the situation, then that shows the community that they are actively listening and reading feedback. With their current policy nobody ever knows if they’re paying attention, and many times the way they implement changes proves that they aren’t.

Null Shock.3745:

The $50 dollar price is fair. Think of it as paying the monthly fee for the last however many years you have been playing. Even then you would have payed a lot more in subscription fees in a lot of cases(Like people who have been playing since GW2’s launch).

Take a look at NCSoft’s earning reports from 2014. GW2 brought them about $77 million. That’s the equivalent of 430,000 players paying a $15/mo sub for a year. How many players do you think Anet would retain if they actually started charging that?

Point is, they are doing quite well from gemstore earnings. GW2 is earning NCSoft more money than all of their other games except Lineage.

In comparison, Wildstar gave a nice $25 millon boost in Q2 of 2014 with initial sales, but quickly flopped to only $2.2 million in Q1 of this year. That’s an average of about 48,000 subs for WS in Q1, while GW2’s sub equivalent is nearly 9 times that.

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

The community manager said 3 or 4 days ago that they’re listening.

Yet still no reponse. To me that’s the equivalent of asking to speak to a supervisor and the attendant saying ‘sure!’ walk off, and never return.

Listening means taking data, having meetings, discussing things and making decisions on a company level. Your analogy is an unfair one. Getting a supervisor takes one person to get one person.

And even then, if you had a supervisor who had nothing to say because this affects company wide policy this supervisor wouldn’t be able to help you anyway.

Patience is a virtue. Governements and companies don’t work on the same time scale individuals do.

Cormac.3871:

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

Discounts are different to false bundles

Cormac.3871:

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

I winced, but I didn’t feel like I was getting hosed and being lied to. Every MMO I’ve ever played has put their software on sale. I simply don’t understand how pointing out that I paid $50 for something new players will now get for free is “overstatement.” Where I come from, that’s what we call a “mathematically provable fact.”

webtoehobbit.4201:

If you think about it, many of us spend a good $50 heck, even $60 on a new game. Take Fallout 4 for example. If they had announced Fallout 4 a day before it released, no one would need to know ANY details about the game because players know Bethesda and they know that they truly deliver on their games. Players trust Bethesda which in turn makes them LOTS of money.

Please don’t speak for me. I need to know what I’m getting when I give a company my hard earned money. I don’t blindly give anyone money.

Cormac.3871:

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

When it was $10, I wasn’t expected to pay for it again.

Now, I’m being asked to pay for it as part of a bundle, and not even kittening get it.

I can say absolutely and without hesitation that price isn’t the issue for me. Unless and until this issue is handled to my satisfaction, I won’t be purchasing HoT. It’s just that simple.

Seera.5916:

webtoehobbit.4201:

If you think about it, many of us spend a good $50 heck, even $60 on a new game. Take Fallout 4 for example. If they had announced Fallout 4 a day before it released, no one would need to know ANY details about the game because players know Bethesda and they know that they truly deliver on their games. Players trust Bethesda which in turn makes them LOTS of money.

Please don’t speak for me. I need to know what I’m getting when I give a company my hard earned money. I don’t blindly give anyone money.

And you shouldn’t give money to any company blindly, who’s asking you to? I don’t think you should preorder the game if you’re not satisfied with it’s value. But there’s enough info, obviously, for some people to have made up their mind. If you’re not one of them, you’re entitled to wait and make a judgement as more info gets released. So what’s the problem?