Guild Wars 2

webtoehobbit.4201:

Now fast forward to now. We have been conditioned to fall into a hype cycle where things are overhyped and underdelivered. Can anyone really blame the state of the community? Is anyone really surprised? If you look at the history between ANet and us, the players, the trust has been eroding for quite some time. I think this may finally have been the straw that broke the camels back….

I think you nailed it.

See this video. Compare it to what we got on release. See how it got trashed when ascended gear and fractals were released.

See all the disappointment on Living World season 1. See so many players complaining about the “blink and you miss it and have to buy it” aspect of Living World season 2.

See all the complaints about the stale state of WvW for years. See all the complaints about lack of balance in PvP and the VERY slow pace of balance patch during the last year.

See all the issues with the Gem Store, including the deal with buying gems in packs only.

I think ArenaNet has lost the playerbase’s trust, and HoT is basically the last drop in a very large bucket that is already overflowing.

Razor.9872:

RabbitUp.8294:

Razor.9872:

Yes, yes they are just giving you the option to buy the set of tires. You are just confused because the tires are the same price as what you previously paid for your car. You are not forced to buy anything. Hell, by all means, if it makes you feel better in the slightest, then just wait a while for them to release more information first.

Another anolgoy? Alrighty, here goes… :P

The thing about this magic ketchup is it doesn’t show up unless you have never eaten a sandwich before (feaking creepy ketchup).

It’s always saddening to hear good players such as yourself leaving, but I can’t — and won’t -- hold you back. If anything, I hope you find what you are looking for :\

Besides the fact you ignore the shady FAQ business, you completely fail at basic economics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch

Nobody gives you free cars. There’s a production cost for these cars, as well as an opportunity cost, as the company could sell them for a profit instead of gifting them to you.

You cover these costs.

And while Anet doesn’t sell a physical product, they would still be losing money if they gave GW2 away for free instead of selling it. Instead, the $50 price tag covers both games, with veteran players paying more so that newcomers can get the bundle cheaper.

This whole bet of their relied on marketing smoke-and-mirrors to work. Thankfully, a good portion of the playerbase have above average understanding of economic principles and marketing tricks.

I’m not ignoring he shady FaQ issue, it just didn’t come up. While I agree the issue was wrong, I think we each see it in a different light. I believe A-net was trying to do good by correcting their wording. However, they did do in a silent and communication-lacking manner that was a poor decision in hindsight.

Lets be clear with one thing. I am not failing at all in economics. If anything it is you who has failed to comprehend something. While this rule you mentioned may hold true for many things, it did not for HoT. You see, the price for the expansion was already set in stone before A-net decided to include the vanilla game. If you look back through this thread, you will find the quote I’m paraphrasing (on mobile so I will try to get it later). I have also heard rumor that this deal is only temporary. We are not paying for this deal because A-net made the economical decision that they would make far more base sales, and thus far more future micro transactions, if they structured this deal so. In other words: as long as the free lunch makes people buy more sandwitches later, the future profits will be higher and pay over the cost loss that occured from the original gambit.

True, the overall strategy is a “trick” to get people to pay more in the long run; but I do believe A-net’s true intentions were to make it easier for new players to join the game.

This just made me realize that Anet/NCSoft/Nexon is using the same sales tactics as crack dealers.
Existing users, addicted, will buy anyway, even if being ripped off. They’ll make whatever excuses necessary to support their decision to keep buying.
New users get the first one free, then they’ll buy/get ripped off with the next transaction.

Granted while this is a successful sales tactic and occasionally used in other subscription based zones (cable, internet, first time home buyers $0 down, Wildstar’s new F2P model). It really shouldn’t apply to B2P.
If the content is worth it, people will pay for it. Don’t give “extras” to a base package, as that makes me question, is it really that bad that people need extra incentive to buy even the cheapest model?
This like Daewoo’s buy one get one free deal. Trying to think of the last time I saw one of those on the road…

Has anyone also brought to peoples notice if you don’t buy HoT now you will have to most probably have to spend much more later if you want to also have the rest of the benefit of the Living Story from then on. This is not new but it does mean if you dont pay that $50 or £34.99 now you could have to pay $150 or £100 down the line for waiting. I’m also sure Anet will hold back content so after HoT is released the first LS will be a month later and that will add more dollars if you want it so even after a month your full HoT package with LS will be maybe about £45.99 or $70.

Iason Evan.3806:

In the future I hope they will consider releasing all of the information about what is contained in the game before doing pre-orders. Some players will have to pay $60(x-pac+character slot). That’s the same price as the base game. The xpac fits into a small corner of the map. They don’t share the same worth to me.

I with the current exchange rate we end up paying close to $75 for HoT and expac in Canada. It would have to deliver content equivalent at least 50% of the original game before I would even consider opening my wallet. From what we have been shown, it is nowhere near that size.

They seem to think that customers are below the intelligence than themselves thus presuming that we are so devoted we are happy to be mugged.

- They have never taken the criticism of their players seriously, usually dismissing it as “players will never be happy” “you cant please everyone” positive/ happy players don’t frequent the forums"

Good luck with pre sales …

joneb.5679:

Has anyone also brought to peoples notice if you don’t buy HoT now you will have to most probably have to spend much more later if you want to also have the rest of the benefit of the Living Story from then on. This is not new but it does mean if you dont pay that $50 or £34.99 now you could have to pay $150 or £100 down the line for waiting. I’m also sure Anet will hold back content so after HoT is released the first LS will be a month later and that will add more dollars if you want it so even after a month your full HoT package with LS will be maybe about £45.99 or $70.

This is just a pre-purchase, you don’t get game yet. There are those adult people who really want to see first is this HoT expansion even worth for their money. And Anet is not continue LS at first day when HoT is released. If they do that then HoT content is worthless. It only means that there is nothing to do in there.

Anet have tried now 2 different type of Living Story style, 1st was Scarlet, be there or lost it forever. 2nd Living Story style was log in and you will get it for free and pay later if you dont. This HoT will be 3rd kind of Living Story style, make an expansion from it. Then they see what of these styles profit most and they will continue doing in that way Living Story.

So there are lot of us, who want to first see where we put our money, is it even worth to put our money in HoT.

This is only a computer game, our lives are not depending from that do we have HoT or not.

I can’t even imagine how many lost sales this whole debacle is going to cost them…

Hey, A-Net has put out a new game. Yeye! Its called Heart of Thorns so they can sound similar to Hearthstone and confuse people which one is which. Got it? / blink blink

Now, the new game from A-net, Heart of Thorns is a new b2p MMO which brings nothing new to the genre, actually its completly similar up to indentical with Guild Wars 2. So, if they sold GW2 based on GW1 famous name, now they stick this GW2 name on their new game to increase the sales

/sarcasm

khani.4786:

Cormac.3871:

mrstealth.6701:

Cormac.3871:

gryph.8734:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So we early adopters are getting hosed. Lemme put it to you another way, Anet staffters: Someone who starts playing the game now gets all the content for $50. I paid roughly $50 to start with, and now I’m paying another $50 for the expansion. In what universe should I be happy to pay twice as much cause I’ve been playing longer?

So were you complaining when the base game went on sale for ten dollars because you paid five times as much? Look, you have a point here, but don’t try and overstate it.

When it was $10, I wasn’t expected to pay for it again.

Now, I’m being asked to pay for it as part of a bundle, and not even kittening get it.

You are not paying for it again. They decided to give it away for free as part of a bundle that doesn’t apply to you if you wish to link it to your existing account. That is something to complain about, but don’t misrepresent it.

Actually, we are paying for it again. Because Hot+Core is not a bundle. If it were a bundle you would have gotten two serial codes: one for core + one for Hot. I’ve gotten bundled games before, you get a serial code for every single part of the package.

Since you can’t even buy stand-alone core anymore.

HoT is the new core game. To say that HoT includes core is misleading at best.

There is probably some specific definition of a bundle that this offer doesn’t fit, but there’s also other game bundles that do only use a single key. I’ve had bundles from Humble Bundle and at least a couple other sources that were like this. In the end, “bundle” is probably the simplest way to describe it.

I do agree that the way Anet is handling this, essentially makes HoT the core product. Specifically the statement that they won’t be selling the core game alone anymore.

Ronah Lynda.2496:

Hey, A-Net has put out a new game. Yeye! Its called Heart of Thorns so they can sound similar to Hearthstone and confuse people which one is which. Got it? / blink blink

Now, the new game from A-net, Heart of Thorns is a new b2p MMO which brings nothing new to the genre, actually its completly similar up to indentical with Guild Wars 2. So, if they sold GW2 based on GW1 famous name, now they stick this GW2 name on their new game to increase the sales

/sarcasm

What I have learned from people on the internet is that they don’t understand sarcasm, even if you write “This is sarcasm”. Many people here have started to believe what you wrote to be true – that HoT is something different, a stand alone game.

From store page:
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Expansion is not stand alone game! Expansion is extra content to a game. If they are selling the expansion for 45 euro and the core game is free, the price of the expansion is way too high for what you are getting.

That was just to clarify in case someone takes your sarcasm seriously.

Since you mentioned fallout 4. Imagine if, with the preorder of fallout 4, you got fallout 3 for free. Of course players who never had played Fallout 3 would get a great deal.
Players who already have fallout 3 would be able to gift that key to a friend.

Instead, Anet chose this convoluted scheme that just generates an unfair return for older players and made them an horrible advertising just at the peak of the expansion hype.

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

Sorry but are you crazy?! Living under a rock or something?! Lack of content?! I’m actually sorry I stopped playing for awhile because I missed half of seasons 1 and 2. But if that is too little for you I can’t help you. I don’t know any subscription free MMO that offers this much content.

matrix seishin.5312:

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

Sorry but are you crazy?! Living under a rock or something?! Lack of content?! I’m actually sorry I stopped playing for awhile because I missed half of seasons 1 and 2. But if that is too little for you I can’t help you. I don’t know any subscription free MMO that offers this much content.

1 mission of 10 mins every 2 weeks doesen’t count as a content that much(or you talking about GEM store content that you pay for 800 gems?) . Real content is silverwastes.

Ragnarox.9601:

matrix seishin.5312:

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

Sorry but are you crazy?! Living under a rock or something?! Lack of content?! I’m actually sorry I stopped playing for awhile because I missed half of seasons 1 and 2. But if that is too little for you I can’t help you. I don’t know any subscription free MMO that offers this much content.

1 mission of 10 mins every 2 weeks doesen’t count as a content that much(or you talking about GEM store content that you pay for 800 gems?) . Real content is silverwastes.

Season 2 was only a few hours of content. It really only stands up as a decent amount if you’re considering the time repeating it to get achievements and other rewards as additional content.

I think Silverwastes does count for more content partly because of the open world nature. You’re free to go around doings things as you wish. Living story instances are very linear affairs, that don’t offer any alternate activities or ways of getting them done. Silverwastes does get repetivite after a while, though.

Ragnarox.9601:

Real content is silverwastes.

To me, that’s not content, that’s a box that people run events. The background story was minimal, it didn’t add much to the greater narative, we learned nothing about the place, its history, why it is the way it is… all we did was defend mini forts, rebuild walls, jump into kitten, kill thing in hole, out of the hole, lay a mini siege on a cave, enter cave, kill thing in cave, get loot, repeat. I got tired of it the first week. There was nothing for me to do in there, nothing to learn about the world, it’s just a box… if HoT is like that, it’ll fail. And the pricing model or the sticking it to the vets won’t be the cause of it either.

I should not have mentioned the seasons… You keep picking the little things. Are you forgetting that the entire world of GW2 is considered content? But anyway, we are getting of topic. The point is that ALL the GW2 actual content + ALL the updates is pretty big for only 50$ and no sub fee. But now we pay the same amount for less content than the initial GW2. If we view GW2 with no updates it will still be much bigger than any non sub fee mmo that I know. GW2 with no updates is still bigger than HoT. So why the same price? Inflation? Who knows? Who cares? Sorry, I’m Libra. I’m looking for a certain equilibrium.

HoT content < GW2 content
so
HoT price < GW2 price

Since we don’t know exactly how much content we will get with HoT, we can’t say if the price is right. But surely it is not more than the core game, therefore… we have this super long thread.

I don’t understand why ANET have to be stubborn about this. Just give veteran players a character slot as a bonus or 1000 gems. Is that so hard to do?

If you’re giving a bonus to new players, give bonus to veteran players too… it’s common sense…

Samnang.1879:

I don’t understand why ANET have to be stubborn about this. Just give veteran players a character slot as a bonus or 1000 gems. Is that so hard to do?

If you’re giving a bonus to new players, give bonus to veteran players too… it’s common sense…

This.

I’m not demanding or expecting $50 in free stuff for a purchase I made almost three years ago. I think it’s quite realistic to expect a little something though. A charadcter slot. A skin for crying out loud. Just something as a “thank you.” Instead? Nothing. Bupkis. And I’m supposed to be okay with this?

Samnang.1879:

I don’t understand why ANET have to be stubborn about this. Just give veteran players a character slot as a bonus or 1000 gems. Is that so hard to do?

If you’re giving a bonus to new players, give bonus to veteran players too… it’s common sense…

the reason is simple. Veteran players now either have to delete a character or buy another character slot if they want to play the revenant (content which they have bought already when they bought the expansion). if they gave away a free character slot or 800gems, we wouldn’t be spending another 10 euros to get another character slot, and thus they’ll be loosing money. it’s a great tactic to fleece players and make them profoundly unhappy apparently.

yeah i think ill sit this one out. anet has not even tried to explain and is simply hope that we all calm down accept it and buy it. sorry but for me and my husband who are both vets it would cost us both 75 australian dollars each, because we both do need a character slot. and then there is fallout 4 around the corner… yeah anet obviously only wants new players.

Null Shock.3745:

I get the whole bit about wanting a free character slot with the basic package, but people complaining about paying $50 for an expansion of a MMORPG with no monthly fee. I am willing to throw down cash that 90% of the people complaining buy gems with in game gold, or at least haven’t spent over $20 Real world money in the gem store. . .You sound like entitled brats. The $50 dollar price is fair. Think of it as paying the monthly fee for the last however many years you have been playing. Even then you would have payed a lot more in subscription fees in a lot of cases(Like people who have been playing since GW2’s launch).

I also have read things about the Final Fantasy expansion being $40. . .They also have to pay a subscription fee. WoW expansions were about $40 at time of each release, plus the subscription fee. Do any of you know how much goes into development? Server maintenance? $50 is a small price compare to other MM The only thing I agree on is that all versions of the EXP should come with at least one free character slot(Maybe 1 for the basic, 2 for Deluxe and ultimate. . .Or just one across the board.)

No you are not paying for GW2 twice, you are buying the kitten ed expansion, noobs get the core for free, which is good. We have an awesome community, the best in any MMO I have played as of late. I am proud of our community(Not when this topic comes up though.). If this monumental fail of a topic was not an issue, you all are likely great people to game with. . .Hell I may have played or talked in map chat with a few of you in the Silverwastes,Lion’s Arch, WvW, or World Boss Runs. So Decide, buy it, or don’t. . .Just stop ruining the forums, and map chat. If you have issues take them up with support.

This is all I want to say regarding this topic. I will not argue with anyone about this, so if that is your intent, do not expect me to reply. Though I hope to see you in game.

This tired old argument is getting old. The Subscription comparison does not apply here. They are entirely two different business models. Anet’s GW2 model makes it’s money through micro-transactions at the gem store as well as the purchase of the core game. By your logic Anet should charge $100, $1000, or even $10,000 just because we should be thankful they did not change their business model on us?

Honestly, I’m not about to pay that much for an expansion – never have. I knew I wasn’t going to be getting this if it was over 30 USD, because quite frankly I haven’t been enjoying playing it (the base game) as much as I did even a year ago (even with the LS content). The mechanics and everything were still sound, but I got to feeling like it was less me wanting to come back and more an obligation to log in to unlock the content so I could try it.

Now, to some people, the price is fine – and you know what, that’s cool for them. For others, the price is NOT right Mr. Barker. You know what? That should be cool too.

Comparing this current act of business model and pricing against other games (such as WoW, or sub-based MMOs) is silly, and people doing it should know that – because if that was a feasible method of debate, then the other side would be to drag true F2P games (such as Neverwinter or Warframe) into the debate, and you would effectively nullify the two argument altogether.

I won’t speak for anyone else – who am I to know what you think – but I will state that the price is too high for something I don’t even know the full breadth of what it will contain, outside of being told that it’s only 1 area, 1 class, and a bunch of tweaks (essentially) for me. I don’t want to pay that much for it, and in turn I won’t pay that much for it. I do feel (and agree) that the entire thing could have been handled so much better than it has been handled – the whole sudden inclusion of the base game into purchase of the 50 dollar expansion, and yet not giving that said bonus to people who already have the base game – but that’s life. We could sit here and argue about if it’s shady or not, or if it’s good business or not till we are blue in the face, but at this point it doesn’t really matter. It’s out of we (the players) hands. The best we can do is leave our own personal feedback and let them read it at their leisure – trying to tell someone their opinion is wrong is pointless because it’s their opinion, you know?

TL:DR: Everyone has an opinion. Maybe you think it’s worth 50$, but I don’t like the price, so I’m not buying it for my own reasons.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

This is an understandable reason as such, but perhaps people would’ve felt less cheated if buying the expansion when you have a copy of the core game would be at least somewhat cheaper.

The core game is basically the larger part of the deal and that comes for free now for new players. I understand that from the developers point of view that part of the game is already paid for, but that’s not taking the customer point of view at that moment, at least your existing customer base.

The expansion, at 50 bucks, is priced on the high side. Perhaps it’s a reasonable price for the content but I cannot judge that at the moment. But it’s 50 bucks for people and it makes it harder to make a package deal where for example new players can buy the core game and expansion for say 75 bucks or something. That would deter new players.

In the end new players get to enjoy for 50 bucks what other players have to pay 100 bucks for. Personally if I really liked GW2 anywhere near as much as I liked GW1, I wouldn’t care so much because I’d see it as supporting the game in spite of a certain sense of unfairness about the whole matter. Still wouldn’t like it though. Most companies wait a while before making such package deals so people at least find it acceptable. To make such a package deal at the release of the expansions is probably the decision that made this a big deal.

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

By giving you more content? The very lack thereof that made you almost stop playing?

Jeez, the logic of some people..

Straylight.7529:

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

By giving you more content? The very lack thereof that made you almost stop playing?

Jeez, the logic of some people..

Except they’re not giving it. They charge the price of a full game for it. It probably has less content than a full game and they ticked existing players off by throwing the core game with it for free for new players but not giving them a discount.

Gehenna.3625:

Straylight.7529:

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

By giving you more content? The very lack thereof that made you almost stop playing?

Jeez, the logic of some people..

Except they’re not giving it. They charge the price of a full game for it. It probably has less content than a full game and they ticked existing players off by throwing the core game with it for free for new players but not giving them a discount.

Did you expect it to be free? Of course you have to pay for it.

“It probably has less content”. Yeah, you don’t know how much content it has, no one knows.

They didn’t tick me off for giving new players the core game for free. I’m actually happy for the new players. It helps the game to grow.

Straylight.7529:

Gehenna.3625:

Straylight.7529:

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

By giving you more content? The very lack thereof that made you almost stop playing?

Jeez, the logic of some people..

Except they’re not giving it. They charge the price of a full game for it. It probably has less content than a full game and they ticked existing players off by throwing the core game with it for free for new players but not giving them a discount.

Did you expect it to be free? Of course you have to pay for it.

“It probably has less content”. Yeah, you don’t know how much content it has, no one knows.

They didn’t tick me off for giving new players the core game for free. I’m actually happy for the new players. It helps the game to grow.

Of course I don’t expect it to be free. You are the one saying they’re giving content. They’re not giving it, they’re selling it. That’s all I am saying. I understand they are a company, but I also understand people feeling ripped off because of the way they handled this. It just wasn’t the smartest way to go about it.

Straylight.7529:

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

By giving you more content? The very lack thereof that made you almost stop playing?

Jeez, the logic of some people..

What content? What little (and I mean little) Anet has told us about this expansion is that it’s all subject to change. So we don’t know what they are really selling us do we. Anet could choose not include anything and hide it in yet another Gem-store transaction. Anet is by no means “giving” anything away.

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

By giving you more content? The very lack thereof that made you almost stop playing?

Jeez, the logic of some people..

What content? What little (and I mean little) Anet has told us about this expansion is that it’s all subject to change. So we don’t know what they are really selling us do we. Anet could choose not include anything and hide it in yet another Gem-store transaction. Anet is by no means “giving” anything away.

If you’re insecure about how much HoT has to offer, don’t preorder. Wait until release, watch some reviews, maybe there’s even going to be a “free to play weekend” and purchase later. Problem solved.

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

By giving you more content? The very lack thereof that made you almost stop playing?

Jeez, the logic of some people..

What content? What little (and I mean little) Anet has told us about this expansion is that it’s all subject to change. So we don’t know what they are really selling us do we. Anet could choose not include anything and hide it in yet another Gem-store transaction. Anet is by no means “giving” anything away.

If you’re insecure about how much HoT has to offer, don’t preorder. Wait until release, watch some reviews, maybe there’s even going to be a “free to play weekend” and purchase later. Problem solved.

“insecure”? HoT has offered nothing yet, but they demand full payment in advance. And as far as a “free to play weekend” do you work for Anet to make such concessions? If not then stop making things up.

Would you give your money up and sign a contract to purchase a car before you know what kind of car, or even if it’s a running car.

webtoehobbit.4201:

If you look at the history between ANet and us, the players, the trust has been eroding for quite some time. I think this may finally have been the straw that broke the camels back….

This really sums it up for me. It is an issue of eroded trust. Like OP I do think this is turning out to be the final straw for many. I can think of countless cases of misdirection, keeping players in the dark and even instances where the official line was changed after the fact. No one likes feeling that they are being played, ignored or scammed.

Let’s hope Anet has it in them to turn this thing around. We need a very real and respectful response and solution, and soon. Sometimes Anet does listen and respond. Let’s hope this is one of those times.

NecroN.8306:

“insecure”? HoT has offered nothing yet, but they demand full payment in advance. And as far as a “free to play weekend” do you work for Anet to make such concessions? If not then stop making things up.

Would you give your money up and sign a contract to purchase a car before you know what kind of car, or even if it’s a running car.

HoT has offered nothing yet? C’mon…put some effort into your arguments.
They do not demand payment. No one demands anything from you. It’s your choice whether to preorder or not.
I’m not working for Arenanet. It was just an idea. Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not. I’m not making things up.

No one forces you to preorder HoT. Just wait and see how it turns out. Is that so difficult for you?

Don’t forget this game is B2P. This model is very interesting for cheap skates. Now don’t get me wrong, not all GW2 players are cheap skates, but there are a lot of people who are very much against subs etc. and that’s fine.

It does mean though that when you do something on the money side of things that even hints at unfairness, people will jump and go for your throat.

Now, some people might think that from what they’ve seen that the expansion isn’t worth the 50 bucks.

Some people will be really upset about their 11:59 move to throw in the core game for free after having it had on sale for some time before the new expansion and at least giving the impression the expansion would have to be paid for separately next to the core game.

So I think there are 2 issues going on here that are being mixed together.

I am sure a lot of people who where here at the beginning remember the debacle of the manifesto. No matter which side you were on, you know it was a big deal. Then there was the level cap raise that got pulled back. Again some are happy, some are not.

But this is really just the next big item where you could say Anet lacked foresight and could’ve handled their turn-around differently.

My guess is they are hurting for new player influx and fel they needed to do this to increase accessibility for new players. Could be good for the game, just not the best way of doing it all in all.

gryph.8734:

I can say absolutely and without hesitation that price isn’t the issue for me. Unless and until this issue is handled to my satisfaction, I won’t be purchasing HoT. It’s just that simple.

Ditto. As of now, the value just isn’t there for me as a long-time player.

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

“insecure”? HoT has offered nothing yet, but they demand full payment in advance. And as far as a “free to play weekend” do you work for Anet to make such concessions? If not then stop making things up.

Would you give your money up and sign a contract to purchase a car before you know what kind of car, or even if it’s a running car.

HoT has offered nothing yet? C’mon…put some effort into your arguments.
They do not demand payment. No one demands anything from you. It’s your choice whether to preorder or not.
I’m not working for Arenanet. It was just an idea. Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not. I’m not making things up.

No one forces you to preorder HoT. Just wait and see how it turns out. Is that so difficult for you?

Just what has HoT offered that is not subject to change?
“Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not.” That is exactly what you trying to do. You’re trying to sway people’s decisions on whether or not to purchase HoT based on your BS LIE!

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

“insecure”? HoT has offered nothing yet, but they demand full payment in advance. And as far as a “free to play weekend” do you work for Anet to make such concessions? If not then stop making things up.

Would you give your money up and sign a contract to purchase a car before you know what kind of car, or even if it’s a running car.

HoT has offered nothing yet? C’mon…put some effort into your arguments.
They do not demand payment. No one demands anything from you. It’s your choice whether to preorder or not.
I’m not working for Arenanet. It was just an idea. Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not. I’m not making things up.

No one forces you to preorder HoT. Just wait and see how it turns out. Is that so difficult for you?

Just what has HoT offered that is not subject to change?
“Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not.” That is exactly what you trying to do. You’re trying to sway people’s decisions on whether or not to purchase HoT based on your BS LIE!

Everything is subject to change and we all know that. HoT has offered a list of features. You can find the list on their homepage. It’s certainly not “nothing” like you said.

I’m not trying to sway people’s decisions. I said “wait and see how it turns out”. That’s the exact opposite of telling you whether to buy it or not.

I’m simply saying that we don’t know the full content list of HoT and therefore can’t say whether $50 is a reasonable price or not. I’m also offering a solution: if you’re insecure about purchasing HoT, don’t preorder. Wait until it releases and you’ll have an easier time making up your mind. Maybe Arenanet will even do a free to play weekend where you can try out HoT for a couple of days for free.

Where do you see a BS lie? I don’t see one.

Anet thinks you all are morons, that is why the price is $50 USD. Are you all morons?

Claim the core game is free when you are actually charging a extra $10 for it forcing the players who have the core game to re-buy it. Not adding character slots so that hundreds of thousands of players need to buy them making Anet millions just off character slots….GG

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

“insecure”? HoT has offered nothing yet, but they demand full payment in advance. And as far as a “free to play weekend” do you work for Anet to make such concessions? If not then stop making things up.

Would you give your money up and sign a contract to purchase a car before you know what kind of car, or even if it’s a running car.

HoT has offered nothing yet? C’mon…put some effort into your arguments.
They do not demand payment. No one demands anything from you. It’s your choice whether to preorder or not.
I’m not working for Arenanet. It was just an idea. Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not. I’m not making things up.

No one forces you to preorder HoT. Just wait and see how it turns out. Is that so difficult for you?

Just what has HoT offered that is not subject to change?
“Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not.” That is exactly what you trying to do. You’re trying to sway people’s decisions on whether or not to purchase HoT based on your BS LIE!

Everything is subject to change and we all know that. HoT has offered a list of features. You can find the list on their homepage. It’s certainly not “nothing” like you said.

I’m not trying to sway people’s decisions. I said “wait and see how it turns out”. That’s the exact opposite of telling you whether to buy it or not.

I’m simply saying that we don’t know the full content list of HoT and therefore can’t say whether $50 is a reasonable price or not. I’m also offering a solution: if you’re insecure about purchasing HoT, don’t preorder. Wait until it releases and you’ll have an easier time making up your mind. Maybe Arenanet will even do a free to play weekend where you can try out HoT for a couple of days for free.

Where do you see a BS lie? I don’t see one.

If it’s all subject to change then clearly HoT has promised nothing. You can not say for a fact what if anything is in HoT. The only thing we know for FACT is that Anet is charging full purchase price upfront for something that is entirely subject to change.

“Maybe Arenanet will even do a free to play weekend where you can try out HoT for a couple of days for free.” Again do you know this for FACT? NO? Then “maybe” you should stop telling people this.

sinican.9250:

Anet thinks you all are morons, that is why the price is $50 USD. Are you all morons?

I wouldn’t go so far as to call people morons, but some visibly have trouble utilizing logic, and avoiding fallacies

People still banging on about this? Eh… go post in one of the merged threads you’re in no way adding anything new

Straylight.7529:

Did you expect it to be free? Of course you have to pay for it.

I wasn’t ever expecting the base game to be free either, but hey, look at that.

CureForLiving.5360:

People still banging on about this? Eh… go post in one of the merged threads you’re in no way adding anything new

If you dont like it dont comment…

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

“insecure”? HoT has offered nothing yet, but they demand full payment in advance. And as far as a “free to play weekend” do you work for Anet to make such concessions? If not then stop making things up.

Would you give your money up and sign a contract to purchase a car before you know what kind of car, or even if it’s a running car.

HoT has offered nothing yet? C’mon…put some effort into your arguments.
They do not demand payment. No one demands anything from you. It’s your choice whether to preorder or not.
I’m not working for Arenanet. It was just an idea. Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not. I’m not making things up.

No one forces you to preorder HoT. Just wait and see how it turns out. Is that so difficult for you?

Just what has HoT offered that is not subject to change?
“Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not.” That is exactly what you trying to do. You’re trying to sway people’s decisions on whether or not to purchase HoT based on your BS LIE!

Everything is subject to change and we all know that. HoT has offered a list of features. You can find the list on their homepage. It’s certainly not “nothing” like you said.

I’m not trying to sway people’s decisions. I said “wait and see how it turns out”. That’s the exact opposite of telling you whether to buy it or not.

I’m simply saying that we don’t know the full content list of HoT and therefore can’t say whether $50 is a reasonable price or not. I’m also offering a solution: if you’re insecure about purchasing HoT, don’t preorder. Wait until it releases and you’ll have an easier time making up your mind. Maybe Arenanet will even do a free to play weekend where you can try out HoT for a couple of days for free.

Where do you see a BS lie? I don’t see one.

If it’s all subject to change then clearly HoT has promised nothing. You can not say for a fact what if anything is in HoT. The only thing we know for FACT is that Anet is charging full purchase price upfront for something that is entirely subject to change.

“Maybe Arenanet will even do a free to play weekend where you can try out HoT for a couple of days for free.” Again do you know this for FACT? NO? Then “maybe” you should stop telling people this.

Then don’t preorder. Like I already said numerous times: If you’re insecure, don’t preorder. Preorders are for people who’re confident that everything’s going to turn out to their satisfaction.

Can’t you read? I said “Maybe Anet will do free to play weekends”. That’s not a fact. I simply tried to offer a solution. Maybe there’s going to be one of those weekends and it might help you in your decision on whether to buy HoT or not.

KGS.9842:

sinican.9250:

Anet thinks you all are morons, that is why the price is $50 USD. Are you all morons?

I wouldn’t go so far as to call people morons, but some visibly have trouble utilizing logic, and avoiding fallacies

They don’t use logic but they use “marketing” logic.

Someone forgot to close the gate of Castle of White Knights it seems.

I wish they can come up with better ideas instead of “If you dont like it, dont preorder it”.

I would just like an official statement.

Would it be so hard to come out and say.

“When we made the decision to include the core copy our intention was to make a bigger better game for everyone”. “We believe injecting new customers into the game would have created a more full world for us all”. “In doing so we did not take into account that some of our existing customers would feel slighted, for which we apologize”.

“We do appreciate our existing customer base, and though we felt our intentions were good, we made a critical error”. “In order to correct this error and show our appreciation for our veteran customers we plan on doing X”. “We hope this helps show that we truly do appreciate our customers and want nothing more then create a game/world in which all our customers new and old feel not only excited to be a part of but a place where the can look forward to many hours of entertainment while we continue bringing new updates and content to Tyria”.

Our sincerest apologies, Arena Net

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

“insecure”? HoT has offered nothing yet, but they demand full payment in advance. And as far as a “free to play weekend” do you work for Anet to make such concessions? If not then stop making things up.

Would you give your money up and sign a contract to purchase a car before you know what kind of car, or even if it’s a running car.

HoT has offered nothing yet? C’mon…put some effort into your arguments.
They do not demand payment. No one demands anything from you. It’s your choice whether to preorder or not.
I’m not working for Arenanet. It was just an idea. Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not. I’m not making things up.

No one forces you to preorder HoT. Just wait and see how it turns out. Is that so difficult for you?

Just what has HoT offered that is not subject to change?
“Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not.” That is exactly what you trying to do. You’re trying to sway people’s decisions on whether or not to purchase HoT based on your BS LIE!

Everything is subject to change and we all know that. HoT has offered a list of features. You can find the list on their homepage. It’s certainly not “nothing” like you said.

I’m not trying to sway people’s decisions. I said “wait and see how it turns out”. That’s the exact opposite of telling you whether to buy it or not.

I’m simply saying that we don’t know the full content list of HoT and therefore can’t say whether $50 is a reasonable price or not. I’m also offering a solution: if you’re insecure about purchasing HoT, don’t preorder. Wait until it releases and you’ll have an easier time making up your mind. Maybe Arenanet will even do a free to play weekend where you can try out HoT for a couple of days for free.

Where do you see a BS lie? I don’t see one.

If it’s all subject to change then clearly HoT has promised nothing. You can not say for a fact what if anything is in HoT. The only thing we know for FACT is that Anet is charging full purchase price upfront for something that is entirely subject to change.

“Maybe Arenanet will even do a free to play weekend where you can try out HoT for a couple of days for free.” Again do you know this for FACT? NO? Then “maybe” you should stop telling people this.

Then don’t preorder. Like I already said numerous times: If you’re insecure, don’t preorder. Preorders are for people who’re confident that everything’s going to turn out to their satisfaction.

Can’t you read? I said “Maybe Anet will do free to play weekends”. That’s not a fact. I simply tried to offer a solution. Maybe there’s going to be one of those weekends and it might help you in your decision on whether to buy HoT or not.

Again with the “insecure” bit. If all you have are insults then have no argument or justification for defending Anet’s shady business tactics. Logic is lost on you.
Does Anet know you’re handing out free HoT weekends?

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Yet still no reponse.

Have you not noticed how sensitive the community is?
They’re probably on there twenty seventh draft, trying to choice the exact wording that will have the community only slightly throwing a tantrum (cause let’s face it a tantrum there shall be, so it’s degrees were talking about here).