Guild Wars 2

Ashen.2907:

Whether or not a given price for something is expensive is a matter of what (or how large) that something is.

Try this at home. Ask someone if $200 is expensive. The response is likely to be something along the lines of, “for what ?” $200 for a house is not expensive. $200 for a candy bar is. $200 in and of itself is neither expensive nor inexpensive until you define what is being purchased for that amount of money.

If the expansions are of equal merit $200 for five of them is less expensive than $200 for four of them. Ask yourself which would be a better deal (AKA less expensive):

Apples 5 for $2.00 or Apples 4 for $2.00 ?

Now if it turns out Anet’s expansions are larger than other companies’ expansions then the difference might be entirely negated. We will see.

Isnt this exactly what we’re discussing ?
however we’re not comparing houses to candy bars here. its one expansion to another. No matter the business model an MMO by its nature will have recurring costs I am sure we can agree on that. taken over a long period of time (ignoring gem sales) paying $40 every 2 years is more money (lets not use the word expensive) then paying $50 every 3 years. That doesnt mean all if fine and great. Like you pointed out correctly it may be that while its less money it could also be a case of less content though I dont think thats very likely on the simple fact that Anet have a large team, 350 people. Other MMOs have much smaller teams, with those considered large having around 250 while some MMOs have even teams as small as 25-50. I dont see how a larger team working for a longer period of time can produce less then a smaller team working for less time.

Ashen.2907:

GW1 was one of my examples actually. But really every game. I know people who specifically wait to do group content in games until after an expansion so that they can solo them.

Gw1 is a horizontal progression game, I did say Horizontal progression games are an exception. Now that also happens in vertical progression games of course, but what progression do you get when you do something like that? None because all the progression the expansion offers is simply designed for that expansion, the old content isnt kept in mind.

Ashen.2907:

You just described new builds, not new professions.

No I didnt. A build uses 1-2 weapons not 5, a build uses 1 elite skill not 5, a build uses 4 utility skills not 20. a build uses 3 traits not 5. The collective content of 5 specalizations isnt a build, its the size of a profession. think of it as a set, the profession is the super set containing 5 weapons, 5 elite skills, 20 utilities etc.. A build is a subset of that consisting of 1-2 weapons, 1 elite skill, 4 utilities etc..

Ashen.2907:

Its also safe to say that it will not exceed what you generally find in other expansions. That is the advantage of comparing an unknown quantity to a known.

It is if the known quantity is larger then the alternative even though the known quantity isnt its total.
Its like saying lets compare X with 50. Which is the largest? I am not telling you what number X is but I can tell you its bigger then 75. In that case it is not safe to say x will not exceed the know number at all.

When other games released their guild halls they nearly always were a hall or maybe a castle you could decorate, craft in, meet socially, expand the halls as you grow and thats it. Now what was revealed so far already does that with additional functionality of allowing PvP fights and rather then a castle or a hall we’re going to get a whole map. That alone already exceeds what other games do. Yet we know there is more functionality that hasnt been revealed yet.

Ashen.2907:

HOT is a product with a price tag. It is defined by its creators/owners as including certain elements (even if not all of them have been announced in detail as of yet). Game elements which do not require paying that price tag are not part of that product. The fact that those elements may very well have been developed at the same time has no bearing on whether or not they are included in the HOT purchase. If I can have it without purchasing HOT then it is not part of the HOT purchase.

No. I can watch a movie on the comfort of my home for free. (it involves waiting for my tv channel to pick it up sure but I dont have to pay anything) at the same time I can pay money and watch it at the cinema. Does that mean if I go watch that movie at the cinema I am only paying for the popcorn and drink? No I am paying for the movie, for the “privilege” of seeing it early as well as have a better experience. Same here. Some parts of the content can be enjoyed for free but to get the full experience you need to buy the whole product which makes it part of the product.

Ashen.2907:

Everything listed as being included in the HOT purchase so far.

Fine in that case please let me know which MMOs have bigger guild halls, released the equivalent of 3 professions in their expansion? How about progression systems that not only had content related to the expansion in question but also previous content. How about expansions that revamped, 3 core systems at once? should be easy if all of this is underwhelming right?

Ashen.2907:

So not empty. Mobs to kill, quests to do, locations to explore. Gotcha.

You really love to twist people words dont you? I never ever said empty, I always said relatively empty. just so we dont mention names lets create a ficticous example think gw1 zone, 10x larger but with 10x less mobs / quests.
It would not be empty but it will be about 10 times faster to create (creating the zone itself isnt that much work, its the content in the zone that’s time consuming) just cause its 10x larger it doesnt mean its 10x more content then a regular gw1 map does it?

Ashen.2907:

You having an issue with the fact that what we have seen so far is underwhelming to me is your problem, not mine. You do not get to decide what others like, dislike, find underwhelming, etc.

Yes it is. You can tell by the fact that it is what I typed.

Galen Grey.4709:

what you’re saying is things like “Right now, based on what we have seen so far, I would say that $5 is too much.”

That is not what the previous statement means. I made no comment about other games’ expansions.

I actually owe you an apology here. I went looking for the quote were you were actually generalizing and said HoT was underwhelming compared to others but couldnt. Must have mistaken you with someone else post so sorry you’re right you never said any such thing.

my whole issue was me mistakenly thinking you said HoT was underwheeling compared to what other games offer in their expansions but you never said such things, you only said it was underwhelming to you personally and like you correctly pointed out thats a perfectly fine statement so once again sorry for this misunderstanding my bad.

mrstealth.6701:

Galen Grey.4709:

The moment they decided to go for an expansion they had to hold off content releases from the living world (else what are they to release in the expansion right?)

An expansion certainly does not mean that all other content has to stop. That’s not even how Anet handled new content in GW1, which didn’t have any other sources of revenue till long after the final retail release. I think a change of pacing is expected, but to stop entirely for the majority of a year? No.

No an expansion doesnt mean all content has to stop. What exactly do you do however when your content is a story line and that story line ends exactly before your expansion releases? what sort of content would you release?

mrstealth.6701:

Do you also expect a break down from a takeout place when you buy a pizza on how the money you pay is going to be spread? 10% pays for the flour, 5% for the stuff on the pizza, 1% goes to pay for the sauce. 20% goes to wages. 10% covers expense, the rest is pure profit. Come on its not realistic.

That is exactly what I agreed to us not having the right to.

But when I order a pizza I do expect to informed (if requested, at least) of the base cost of the pizza, the cost of extra toppings, and how much the delivery fee is. We have a right to know what we’re being charged for and receiving…but not a detailed expenses report.

how is that the same thing? Anet tell you exactly how much each item costs and if you order multiple stuff they’ll give you a breakdown of what costs how much. but thats not what you were requesting originally. You wanted to know where the money you pay goes which is entirely different then knowing what each item costs.

[quote=5402261;Galen Grey.4709:
No an expansion doesnt mean all content has to stop. What exactly do you do however when your content is a story line and that story line ends exactly before your expansion releases? what sort of content would you release?[/quote]

SAB is the first thing that comes to mind. Or how about a shorter story arc that isn’t directly part of the season to season story.

how is that the same thing? Anet tell you exactly how much each item costs and if you order multiple stuff they’ll give you a breakdown of what costs how much. but thats not what you were requesting originally. You wanted to know where the money you pay goes which is entirely different then knowing what each item costs.

The “exactly” was what I was agreeing with in the post you quoted. That we’re not entitled to a detailed expenses report. It was a reply to someone else, about an (admittedly) overly broad statement I had made before that did make it appear I wanted a detail expense report for HoT. Poor choice of wording on my part, but I don’t want an expenses report.

I want to know what is actually part of/requiring HoT, and what is being provided/paid for otherwise. As in if I buy HoT, what is that money going toward in terms of the product I receive, not including all the other things I’d get if I didn’t buy it. Not a breakdown of how much each feature costs. Just a listing of what I’m actually buying, without the extra padding of features that don’t require an expansion purchase.

Yeah, I’d expect that for a pizza because it’s a customized order with optional add-ons and costs to me. HoT is a single product with a feature set. It doesn’t have add-ons outside of the already clearly laid out upgraded editions. But it does have a feature list that includes features that aren’t part of the expansion purchase. I want to know what I have to pay that $50 to get, and what I get if I don’t pay that $50(The features/content paid for by their other revenue streams or even by re-investment of HoT’s projected profits. Things that some consider “free”, even though it is being funded).

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

Whether or not a given price for something is expensive is a matter of what (or how large) that something is.

Try this at home. Ask someone if $200 is expensive. The response is likely to be something along the lines of, “for what ?” $200 for a house is not expensive. $200 for a candy bar is. $200 in and of itself is neither expensive nor inexpensive until you define what is being purchased for that amount of money.

If the expansions are of equal merit $200 for five of them is less expensive than $200 for four of them. Ask yourself which would be a better deal (AKA less expensive):

Apples 5 for $2.00 or Apples 4 for $2.00 ?

Now if it turns out Anet’s expansions are larger than other companies’ expansions then the difference might be entirely negated. We will see.

Isnt this exactly what we’re discussing ?
however we’re not comparing houses to candy bars here. its one expansion to another. No matter the business model an MMO by its nature will have recurring costs I am sure we can agree on that. taken over a long period of time (ignoring gem sales) paying $40 every 2 years is more money (lets not use the word expensive) then paying $50 every 3 years. That doesnt mean all if fine and great. Like you pointed out correctly it may be that while its less money it could also be a case of less content though I dont think thats very likely on the simple fact that Anet have a large team, 350 people. Other MMOs have much smaller teams, with those considered large having around 250 while some MMOs have even teams as small as 25-50. I dont see how a larger team working for a longer period of time can produce less then a smaller team working for less time.

Ashen.2907:

GW1 was one of my examples actually. But really every game. I know people who specifically wait to do group content in games until after an expansion so that they can solo them.

Gw1 is a horizontal progression game, I did say Horizontal progression games are an exception. Now that also happens in vertical progression games of course, but what progression do you get when you do something like that? None because all the progression the expansion offers is simply designed for that expansion, the old content isnt kept in mind.

Ashen.2907:

You just described new builds, not new professions.

No I didnt. A build uses 1-2 weapons not 5, a build uses 1 elite skill not 5, a build uses 4 utility skills not 20. a build uses 3 traits not 5. The collective content of 5 specalizations isnt a build, its the size of a profession. think of it as a set, the profession is the super set containing 5 weapons, 5 elite skills, 20 utilities etc.. A build is a subset of that consisting of 1-2 weapons, 1 elite skill, 4 utilities etc..

Ashen.2907:

Its also safe to say that it will not exceed what you generally find in other expansions. That is the advantage of comparing an unknown quantity to a known.

It is if the known quantity is larger then the alternative even though the known quantity isnt its total.
Its like saying lets compare X with 50. Which is the largest? I am not telling you what number X is but I can tell you its bigger then 75. In that case it is not safe to say x will not exceed the know number at all.

When other games released their guild halls they nearly always were a hall or maybe a castle you could decorate, craft in, meet socially, expand the halls as you grow and thats it. Now what was revealed so far already does that with additional functionality of allowing PvP fights and rather then a castle or a hall we’re going to get a whole map. That alone already exceeds what other games do. Yet we know there is more functionality that hasnt been revealed yet.

Ashen.2907:

HOT is a product with a price tag. It is defined by its creators/owners as including certain elements (even if not all of them have been announced in detail as of yet). Game elements which do not require paying that price tag are not part of that product. The fact that those elements may very well have been developed at the same time has no bearing on whether or not they are included in the HOT purchase. If I can have it without purchasing HOT then it is not part of the HOT purchase.

No. I can watch a movie on the comfort of my home for free. (it involves waiting for my tv channel to pick it up sure but I dont have to pay anything) at the same time I can pay money and watch it at the cinema. Does that mean if I go watch that movie at the cinema I am only paying for the popcorn and drink? No I am paying for the movie, for the “privilege” of seeing it early as well as have a better experience. Same here. Some parts of the content can be enjoyed for free but to get the full experience you need to buy the whole product which makes it part of the product.

Ashen.2907:

Everything listed as being included in the HOT purchase so far.

Fine in that case please let me know which MMOs have bigger guild halls, released the equivalent of 3 professions in their expansion? How about progression systems that not only had content related to the expansion in question but also previous content. How about expansions that revamped, 3 core systems at once? should be easy if all of this is underwhelming right?

Ashen.2907:

So not empty. Mobs to kill, quests to do, locations to explore. Gotcha.

You really love to twist people words dont you? I never ever said empty, I always said relatively empty. just so we dont mention names lets create a ficticous example think gw1 zone, 10x larger but with 10x less mobs / quests.
It would not be empty but it will be about 10 times faster to create (creating the zone itself isnt that much work, its the content in the zone that’s time consuming) just cause its 10x larger it doesnt mean its 10x more content then a regular gw1 map does it?

Ashen.2907:

You having an issue with the fact that what we have seen so far is underwhelming to me is your problem, not mine. You do not get to decide what others like, dislike, find underwhelming, etc.

Yes it is. You can tell by the fact that it is what I typed.

Galen Grey.4709:

what you’re saying is things like “Right now, based on what we have seen so far, I would say that $5 is too much.”

That is not what the previous statement means. I made no comment about other games’ expansions.

I actually owe you an apology here. I went looking for the quote were you were actually generalizing and said HoT was underwhelming compared to others but couldnt. Must have mistaken you with someone else post so sorry you’re right you never said any such thing.

my whole issue was me mistakenly thinking you said HoT was underwheeling compared to what other games offer in their expansions but you never said such things, you only said it was underwhelming to you personally and like you correctly pointed out thats a perfectly fine statement so once again sorry for this misunderstanding my bad.

Galen Grey.4709:

I mean having a ton of empty maps is not better then having a few content rich maps.

Not, “relatively,” just, “empty.”

5 for $200 is a better buy than 4 for $200 (assuming parity in size, etc) no matter how one tries to spin it. Marketing departments have been trying to convince consumers that getting less for the same price is a great buy for quite some time in the real world. Welcome to august company with your efforts.

When going to the movie theater access to the movie itself is limited to those who pay for it and it is presented to consumers as the benefit of buying the ticket. There is no such limit on access to those game elements being discussed. Anyone who owns the base game will get them. One need not purchase HOT to get them.

Also note that I said builds not build.

Looking forward beyond HoT’s release, it seems likely that some of HoT’s marketed features will likely be released over time(HoT’s story/LS3). If that is considered part of HoT’s purchase/features, then it should be included in that ‘what my $50 gets me’.

Where it gets a bit muddy is the fact that there is other money coming in from customers during that time. Not to say that Anet has to (or even should) give any info about their internal expenses/re-investments/etc, but rather that consumers should know what they’re supporting in a more general sense.

Looking back to GW2’s release, from a generalized consumer perspective, we paid $60 for a game and were then marketed gemstore items to pay for future content. Now of course, Anet was using re-invested profits from game copy sales in addition to gemstore earnings to fund ongoing content. But that is something the consumer doesn’t see, so the general perception is that the gemstore funds updates. At some point after release, after sales drop off, it does truly rely on the gemstore. But there is a more clear line from our perspective that starts right after the retail sale.

What’s different with HoT, is that perception of a clear line between the retail cost and additional support doesn’t exist unless Anet explains it. From Anet’s internal financial perspective, it’s not really any different, but our perception as consumers is. We’re being sold a season pass, without knowing when the season ends and also being asked to support content beyond the season. It’s difficult for a consumer to get a sense of what they are paying for/supporting.

That, combined with the way HoT exclusive features and other features are being marketed as one, creates the need for clarity in where that line lies. Continuing to market “free”/otherwise-supported content as a feature requiring purchase is deceptive, and we do have the right to know what our money is getting us, compared to what we get without paying.

mrstealth.6701:

Looking forward beyond HoT’s release, it seems likely that some of HoT’s marketed features will likely be released over time(HoT’s story/LS3). If that is considered part of HoT’s purchase/features, then it should be included in that ‘what my $50 gets me’.

Where it gets a bit muddy is the fact that there is other money coming in from customers during that time. Not to say that Anet has to (or even should) give any info about their internal expenses/re-investments/etc, but rather that consumers should know what they’re supporting in a more general sense.

Looking back to GW2’s release, from a generalized consumer perspective, we paid $60 for a game and were then marketed gemstore items to pay for future content. Now of course, Anet was using re-invested profits from game copy sales in addition to gemstore earnings to fund ongoing content. But that is something the consumer doesn’t see, so the general perception is that the gemstore funds updates. At some point after release, after sales drop off, it does truly rely on the gemstore. But there is a more clear line from our perspective that starts right after the retail sale.

What’s different with HoT, is that perception of a clear line between the retail cost and additional support doesn’t exist unless Anet explains it. From Anet’s internal financial perspective, it’s not really any different, but our perception as consumers is. We’re being sold a season pass, without knowing when the season ends and also being asked to support content beyond the season. It’s difficult for a consumer to get a sense of what they are paying for/supporting.

That, combined with the way HoT exclusive features and other features are being marketed as one, creates the need for clarity in where that line lies. Continuing to market “free”/otherwise-supported content as a feature requiring purchase is deceptive, and we do have the right to know what our money is getting us, compared to what we get without paying.

One side effect of ANet’s gag order policy that they might not have considered is that when they withhold information, (some) people are more likely to assume the worst than the best. That is certainly what I do. That way, ANet rarely disappoints, and more unexpected things are pleasant. This doesn’t always work, as there have been times that ANet was capable of producing things that were worse than the worst I was expecting.

As to extended content beyond the HoT box… I’m still not sure why you’re having a problem with this issue. If there are post-launch story updates that take place in Heart of Maguma, and since you can’t go there without purchase, then HoT will be required. The alternative is that there would be no story updates. Story updates that do not require HoT purchase would be contrary to the buy-to-play business model. GW2 core will likely see feature updates. WvW and PvP updates will likely apply regardless.

Maybe ANet will surprise me and say that future updates will not require HoT… though I doubt it. Regardless, the idea that “Gem purchases are the game’s sole means of generating revenue beyond core box sales.” is clearly out the window as they’ve laid the groundwork for further expansions. I don’t see consumers needing to know at what point HoT box revenues stop supporting ongoing development.

I think the point of this discussion has derailed. Which is… the problem of having to pay for the game twice to get an expansion.

I understand that it’s great for newer players, it’s a 2 for 1 deal. GW2 provides HOURS of content, and is in no way a lightweight when it comes to entertainment. But for older players, it’s like a stab in the back for loyalty. You’ve likely completed most of what GW2 had to offer you, so you’re really paying the price of a game… for one item.

You don’t have to lower the price… but at least give the older players something special too.

Galen Grey.4709:

Fine in that case please let me know which MMOs have bigger guild halls, released the equivalent of 3 professions in their expansion? How about progression systems that not only had content related to the expansion in question but also previous content. How about expansions that revamped, 3 core systems at once? should be easy if all of this is underwhelming right?

ffxiv;
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Housing

3 new jobs

most new expansions add new progression systems, not sure thats a big deal.

revamping core systems isnt really a bonus, its done because the core systems werent working out for the future of the game.

Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497:

I think the point of this discussion has derailed. Which is… the problem of having to pay for the game twice to get an expansion.

I understand that it’s great for newer players, it’s a 2 for 1 deal. GW2 provides HOURS of content, and is in no way a lightweight when it comes to entertainment. But for older players, it’s like a stab in the back for loyalty. You’ve likely completed most of what GW2 had to offer you, so you’re really paying the price of a game… for one item.

You don’t have to lower the price… but at least give the older players something special too.

You only pay once for the core game.

You base the value of the expansion on how much content is included and whether you feel it is worth that much. If you personally don’t feel that it is then simply don’t buy it. Comparing it to what you got in other games, whether related or not, just distorts things.

Companies often give offers targeted at new customers only. It’s a fairly common thing to do. Providing purchase incentives to the entire customer base is not a requirement. That’s not how it works.

IndigoSundown.5419:

As to extended content beyond the HoT box… I’m still not sure why you’re having a problem with this issue. If there are post-launch story updates that take place in Heart of Maguma, and since you can’t go there without purchase, then HoT will be required.

I don’t have any issue with that on its own. It’s not really any different than the season pass type of DLC model that’s common in other games. It’s the combination of that with GW2’s existing business model, the fact that the game is being marketed as an expansion (not a season pass), and the impression quite a few of us get from Anet that HoT is already releasing rather light on content.

Anet has already stopped other content for the better part of a year in order to work on HoT. I really hope that trend doesn’t continue after release, and that we see other content (even if it does require owning HoT) being produced along side the remainder of HoT with the added revenue they will continue collecting. To not do that is like double-dipping from their customers, as if the expansion were worth its up front cost in addition to x months added micro-transaction revenue.

Of course, we don’t know what will happen yet. But Anet isn’t giving a good impression with the decision to hold off all content while they’re rushing to get HoT out the door. Maybe give us SAB or some of those 20-ish mini-games/activities the game was supposed to have had at launch. Three years after release, and I still can’t have a bar brawl (unless they’re trying to count that drinking game) or go to the shooting gallery they were telling us about well before release.

Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497:

I think the point of this discussion has derailed. Which is… the problem of having to pay for the game twice to get an expansion.

At its base, that is really a consideration of whether HoT is worth $50 on its own, so I view discussion of HoT’s worth in general to be very on topic. I’ve accepted that core bundling is a buy-to-play version of the base game going free-to-play. This leaves me free to decide whether HOT is worth $50 if added to my old account without the distraction of thinking that the price was jacked up because of bundling.

@ mrstealth

I’m not sure what games are offering “season passes,” so I won’t comment. When I look at other B2P MMO’s, like TSW and ESO, I see them offering DLC “mini-expansions” while also maintaining a cash shop. I don’t see them adding anything like the free content updates that ANet provided in season 1 and 2. The only real difference is that their DLC comes more often, is small, and costs less than HoT.

Whether Anet will revert to free updates between expansions remains to be seen. I’m guessing that the “Big Announcements” at Pax will include something about their model going forward — as they are supposed to be talking about things that will “…define the future of Guild Wars 2 …”. It would seem to me that depending solely on expansions taking a year or more to produce to keep interest up is likely to fail. However, I expect that micro-transaction revenue will always be part of their business model.

I was referring to the season passes that are common other game genres. I don’t know of any MMOs that have done that yet. Not that ‘normal’ single/multiplayer games’ overall business models are directly comparable, but that particular aspect is pretty much the same. The biggest difference being that another game’s season pass usually covers a specific set of content, rather than unknown future updates.

Whitewolf.7395:

Everyone complaining about the fact that vanilla version of GW2 makes the realization that common sense is a myth all the more real. The instant they announced this i was like cool now people can join easier since its a BONUS to the game. If you are unhappy with the game you bought dont get the expansion. That simple but complaining they added something for free that isnt particularly helpful to you doesnt mean you lose anything.

You just dont gain as much. I dont understand all the fuss they have explained this and it seemed simple enough from the get go. People just want something to complain about is my understanding which there are legitimate complaints but this isn’t one of them. If they gave out a free key chain would you complain you already have that one? Same idea on a more basic level.

My dissatisfaction with them is anet stopped the living story stuff to work on an expansion that is dragging along. They seem to be stretching their resources thin and have trouble delivering.

A lot of the stuff, specifically features, will be added to the base game, wvw & spvp stuff will be added to the base game free because they can’t segment an already thin population without killing the modes (at least they way they are currently designed).

I still haven’t purchased and at this rate I probably won’t. For 50$, so many awesome AAA games are due this winter, I hope they get the expansion is competing with all that, 2015 is a huge year for entertainment in general (awesome AAA games, really good movies, etc)

I have 2 major games, GW2 (which I haven’t played in months because there really isn’t anything new to do, it’s gotten stale) and Destiny (which a bit of the same) – Kind of taking a break.

Now destiny announced TTK (expansion, start of their “year 2”) and same for GW2 with HoT. Now all the HoT announcements have lasted forever, they made so many posts, but the information is so diluted and lacking, they are stretching it (hope it changes when they announce the “challenging content”. (Currently on an MMO scale – to compare apples with apples -, I do not yet see the value ANET asks for the expansion) On the other hand, it took a simple 1h stream (and a few articles here and there) to get me hyped and see the value in buying TTK expansion. In my book Bungie is doing everything right where ANET fails to do so.

Don’t get me wrong, Bungie also had their fair share of missteps, just like ANET, but they both handled themselves in very different ways. And I also do hope ANET steps up because I love the world of GW.

Like I’ve said quite a few times, ANET doesn’t need to spend hours showing us all the tooltips and every single skill and trait, or walk us through a story. We, I, just want to have a good idea of what I’d actually be getting for those 50$.. Same with the challenging group content, a small 3-5 min trailer showing what we can expect from it. We don’t need a full walkthrough of the content before I even get to play it (doing that would just turn the expansion stale before we even get to play it!!)

Same for specialisations, we get it, we just want to know what the missing ones are themed to (specially the people that main those classes, but you don’t need to go in dept the way you have been doing with individual streams which is just dragging on…)

Lastly, ANET, please find a way to at least have one of your communication channels that contains all the important news about the game, right now we have to fish for it all over the place, and really, the forums is not the best place to spread important information as most of the playerbase does not even visit them.

(I have this ominous feeling like I’m going to get hit by the censorship squad…)

LostBalloon.6423:

Like I’ve said quite a few times, ANET doesn’t need to spend hours showing us all the tooltips and every single skill and trait, or walk us through a story. We, I, just want to have a good idea of what I’d actually be getting for those 50$.. Same with the challenging group content, a small 3-5 min trailer showing what we can expect from it. We don’t need a full walkthrough of the content before I even get to play it (doing that would just turn the expansion stale before we even get to play it!!)

Same for specialisations, we get it, we just want to know what the missing ones are themed to (specially the people that main those classes, but you don’t need to go in dept the way you have been doing with individual streams which is just dragging on…)

Lastly, ANET, please find a way to at least have one of your communication channels that contains all the important news about the game, right now we have to fish for it all over the place, and really, the forums is not the best place to spread important information as most of the playerbase does not even visit them.

(I have this ominous feeling like I’m going to get hit by the censorship squad…)

Anet has definitely not handled information about HoT very well. Each announced spec has an exclusive reveal on some game news site, a news/blog post on the main GW2 site, and an episode of PoI or RU largely dedicated to it. While a simple, yet vital, piece of information like whether or not a customer actually has to buy HoT to play Stronghold is buried under all of that as a brief mention in post, article, or video.

While I do like having detailed info available, sorting through that should not be the only way to get that important information. Information that should be easy to find. It belongs on the main HoT page on the GW2 site. But the HoT mainpage is the same as it’s been since January. The only additions have been the stream of news links to the previously mentioned blog/news posts. That page should be updated with information that is important to consumers instead of being an HTML HoT poster.

A customer, or more importantly a potential customer, going to that site to find out something about specializations is given this.

Specializations
Evolve your gameplay. With profession specializations, you’ll unlock access to a weapon previously unavailable to your profession as well as new traits, skills, and unique mechanics – all of which will transform your profession into something new.

If they want any more information they’ll have to start digging through months worth of linked posts in the news section, googling something they don’t even know the name of, or reading through community created wiki pages. The mainpage should have a concise description of each of those specializations, with links to the detailed articles/videos. But right now, the only place to get useful information like that is the wiki that Anet’s customers create.

On the topic of clearly defining what you get for the $50 HoT price tag, I want to know if purchasing HoT will guarantee access to the full LS releases post HoT. Many people are assuming HoT will entitle them to all future content (until the next xpac), but ANet has already shown us that they are willing to charge existing customers for LS content.

BondageBill.4021:

On the topic of clearly defining what you get for the $50 HoT price tag, I want to know if purchasing HoT will guarantee access to the full LS releases post HoT. Many people are assuming HoT will entitle them to all future content (until the next xpac), but ANet has already shown us that they are willing to charge existing customers for LS content.

I was thinking about that a few weeks ago, but didn’t get around to posting anything about it. It’s definitely something that needs an answer, especially since there is already a precedent for Anet doing it.

If they’ve made any statements claiming LS3 is part of HoT, then they are obligated to let anyone owning the expansion access it. Putting it behind an additional paywall like they did with LS2 would make that false advertisement. I’m not certain if they have actually stated it so clearly.

In any case, charging for it would be a really crappy move on their part. Having to pay for LS2 chapters just because you weren’t actively playing is bad enough. Charging extra for content that is the main story element of an expansion they’re already charging for would be a new low.

mrstealth.6701:

BondageBill.4021:

On the topic of clearly defining what you get for the $50 HoT price tag, I want to know if purchasing HoT will guarantee access to the full LS releases post HoT. Many people are assuming HoT will entitle them to all future content (until the next xpac), but ANet has already shown us that they are willing to charge existing customers for LS content.

If they’ve made any statements claiming LS3 is part of HoT, then they are obligated to let anyone owning the expansion access it. Putting it behind an additional paywall like they did with LS2 would make that false advertisement. I’m not certain if they have actually stated it so clearly.

In any case, charging for it would be a really crappy move on their part. Having to pay for LS2 chapters just because you weren’t actively playing is bad enough. Charging extra for content that is the main story element of an expansion they’re already charging for would be a new low.

I’m very surprised that more people haven’t come to the conclusion that HOT is Living story 3.

Most likely, towards the end of LS2, NCSoft demanded that the game needed to generate more revenue to make it sustainable and as a consequence, Anet were ‘required’ to expand on the existing work they had done in preparation for LS3 and sell it as an expansion.

My guess is that much of the ‘new’ map that previewed when HOT was first announced, was in fact already complete as part of the planned two week roll out for LS3 and since then all the LS teams have been frantically trying to expand the map to justify selling it as an expansion.

Personally I have no issue with this (assuming it is correct), I’ve enjoyed playing all the LS Free content and being asked to pay for a further 2-3 years of content seems quite reasonable. However, the asking price for HOT is far too high and (although it will never happen) perhaps a policy of truth would have brought more people on board.

I understand the game is free for the new players and the price they ask is the price they’re charging for the expansion alone…

I’ll be honest, giving the new players the core game for free is a nice way to encourage them getting the game. If nothing, it’s better than another company’s policy where you needed to buy all the expansions and the core game PLUS paying the monthly fee.

But as an old player, I don’t feel any reason to come back by this point, as an old player I don’t see why I should get this one, then wait for another expansion and pay for it once again while ‘new players’ will get the Core+HoT+whatever the new expansion will be. GW is interesting, but by this point I’ll just wait for the final expansion, pick that up and experience the whole thing myself…

Heylel.2109:

I understand the game is free for the new players and the price they ask is the price they’re charging for the expansion alone…

I’ll be honest, giving the new players the core game for free is a nice way to encourage them getting the game. If nothing, it’s better than another company’s policy where you needed to buy all the expansions and the core game PLUS paying the monthly fee.

But as an old player, I don’t feel any reason to come back by this point, as an old player I don’t see why I should get this one, then wait for another expansion and pay for it once again while ‘new players’ will get the Core+HoT+whatever the new expansion will be. GW is interesting, but by this point I’ll just wait for the final expansion, pick that up and experience the whole thing myself…

If all you care about is the story then that could be one way to go. However, a lot of the maps are structured in a way like DT and SW. When you eventually go to play HoT’s maps, you won’t get the full experience as there will be much less people. You’ll also find yourself grinding much more than everyone else for the map currencies to get any items from those vendors including completing any collections.

Ayrilana.1396:

Heylel.2109:

I understand the game is free for the new players and the price they ask is the price they’re charging for the expansion alone…

I’ll be honest, giving the new players the core game for free is a nice way to encourage them getting the game. If nothing, it’s better than another company’s policy where you needed to buy all the expansions and the core game PLUS paying the monthly fee.

But as an old player, I don’t feel any reason to come back by this point, as an old player I don’t see why I should get this one, then wait for another expansion and pay for it once again while ‘new players’ will get the Core+HoT+whatever the new expansion will be. GW is interesting, but by this point I’ll just wait for the final expansion, pick that up and experience the whole thing myself…

If all you care about is the story then that could be one way to go. However, a lot of the maps are structured in a way like DT and SW. When you eventually go to play HoT’s maps, you won’t get the full experience as there will be much less people. You’ll also find yourself grinding much more than everyone else for the map currencies to get any items from those vendors including completing any collections.

I did not play in the beta so I am curious about the, “a lot of the maps’” comment. How many maps are you speaking of? How many total are there and how many of those are structured like Dry Top and Silverwastes?

Also what are the map currencies?

Ashen.2907:

Ayrilana.1396:

Heylel.2109:

I understand the game is free for the new players and the price they ask is the price they’re charging for the expansion alone…

I’ll be honest, giving the new players the core game for free is a nice way to encourage them getting the game. If nothing, it’s better than another company’s policy where you needed to buy all the expansions and the core game PLUS paying the monthly fee.

But as an old player, I don’t feel any reason to come back by this point, as an old player I don’t see why I should get this one, then wait for another expansion and pay for it once again while ‘new players’ will get the Core+HoT+whatever the new expansion will be. GW is interesting, but by this point I’ll just wait for the final expansion, pick that up and experience the whole thing myself…

If all you care about is the story then that could be one way to go. However, a lot of the maps are structured in a way like DT and SW. When you eventually go to play HoT’s maps, you won’t get the full experience as there will be much less people. You’ll also find yourself grinding much more than everyone else for the map currencies to get any items from those vendors including completing any collections.

I did not play in the beta so I am curious about the, “a lot of the maps’” comment. How many maps are you speaking of? How many total are there and how many of those are structured like Dry Top and Silverwastes?

Also what are the map currencies?

I’m talking about all maps from HoT and beyond. Anet has stated that their current plan is to make maps like DT and SW. Each of those maps have a currency and if you played the beta, you would have seen a new one.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ashen.2907:

Ayrilana.1396:

Heylel.2109:

I understand the game is free for the new players and the price they ask is the price they’re charging for the expansion alone…

I’ll be honest, giving the new players the core game for free is a nice way to encourage them getting the game. If nothing, it’s better than another company’s policy where you needed to buy all the expansions and the core game PLUS paying the monthly fee.

But as an old player, I don’t feel any reason to come back by this point, as an old player I don’t see why I should get this one, then wait for another expansion and pay for it once again while ‘new players’ will get the Core+HoT+whatever the new expansion will be. GW is interesting, but by this point I’ll just wait for the final expansion, pick that up and experience the whole thing myself…

If all you care about is the story then that could be one way to go. However, a lot of the maps are structured in a way like DT and SW. When you eventually go to play HoT’s maps, you won’t get the full experience as there will be much less people. You’ll also find yourself grinding much more than everyone else for the map currencies to get any items from those vendors including completing any collections.

I did not play in the beta so I am curious about the, “a lot of the maps’” comment. How many maps are you speaking of? How many total are there and how many of those are structured like Dry Top and Silverwastes?

Also what are the map currencies?

I’m talking about all maps from HoT and beyond. Anet has stated that their current plan is to make maps like DT and SW. Each of those maps have a currency and if you played the beta, you would have seen a new one.

No worries. It was the use of the definitive present tense as opposed to the speculative future tense that threw me off.

“a lot of the maps are structured in a way like DT and SW.” as opposed to “A lot of maps could/might/may be structured like DT/SW.”

I thought perhaps that you had seen a release statement that I had not.

http://www.amazon.com/Guild-Wars-2-Pc/dp/B001TOQ8X4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1440379966&sr=8-1&keywords=guild+wars

It should be at least $20 off for players who already own the core game.

Won’t be buying it until it’s on sale $20 cheaper than its launch price. Maybe I’ll skip it all together because of this forced bundle.

The people who made this possible are the people who not only bought the core game, but have been buying gems, cosmetics, character slots, and other store items which cost actual money.

I would argue that I have more than gotten my $60 worth out of this game since launch and that I will more than get my $50 worth out of the expansion. I want to play with more people so anything ANet can do to get more players is fine in my book.

The only issue I had was that they were releasing a new class but were not releasing a character slot to go with it. That has been rectified and I am once again a happy GW2 player.

I’ll put it in simple terms for you guys:

1. GW2 the base game will be discontinued.
2. GW2: HoT is now the new base game.

You’ve had 3 years now where you enjoyed the game. You are not being ripped off. I personally use the $1/hour rule. If for every dollar spent I’ve had more than 1 hour’s worth of enjoyment, then it’s good value for money. That is certainly the case with this game.

wow.. thread necro. i’m sure the issue was resolved.

I certainly cannot think of another game where I spent $50 and got over 5K hours of enjoyment out of it. Skyrim comes in at not even a close second for value with around 400 hours.
I spent an estimated $600 on WoW fees/expansions for 3 years and didn’t even get nearly 5K hours played (3K if I remember correctly).

Ashen.2907:

Not, “relatively,” just, “empty.”

5 for $200 is a better buy than 4 for $200 (assuming parity in size, etc) no matter how one tries to spin it. Marketing departments have been trying to convince consumers that getting less for the same price is a great buy for quite some time in the real world. Welcome to august company with your efforts.

When going to the movie theater access to the movie itself is limited to those who pay for it and it is presented to consumers as the benefit of buying the ticket. There is no such limit on access to those game elements being discussed. Anyone who owns the base game will get them. One need not purchase HOT to get them.

Also note that I said builds not build.

mistype, meant to say relatively empty. ohh come on no map in no game is completely empty obviously.

thats the key part though size parity. at the end of the day what counts in an MMO is that it keeps you busy. Gw2 has been doing a stellar job in that (at least up to 8 months ago) at the end of the day its not about the number of expansions released, its about having content to enjoy. Provided you’re kept busy 4 releases for $200 every 12 years is a better deal then 5 releases every 10 years.

Just like if you had to compare with a DLC based MMO. Comparing Gw2 with one such MMO, in Gw2 I had 3 years of content for the box price of $60. In the 2nd Example I got that 3 years worth of content for the box price of $60 and $10 per dlc x 12. just cause in the 2nd example I got 12 release for the low price of $10 it doesn’t make it more valuable then 1 release of $50 because at the end of the day I am not interest in buying the biggest number of expansions/dlcs, I am interested in having content to play and as long as content flows it is better for me to pay more but less often then to pay less but more often so long as (pay more*less often) < (pay less*more often)

of course it is. When you go to movie theater you primarly go there for the movie so while at the theater movie is restricted to those who paid the ticket, the movie itself is not. Of course if you decide to go with the free options you will not get the full experience. Smaller screen, adverts, worst sound system etc.. Same exact thing here. Taking stronghold as an example to get the full experience you need to buy HoT if you dont you can enjoy it for free but you will not get the full experience as someone who bought HoT like you cannot unlock and choose which champion to deploy for example, thats just for people who “bought the ticket”.

This is so the base game doesnt get to 10$, as a result there would be 1million alt accounts just getting the daily log in rewards which would alter the economy to much.

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

Fine in that case please let me know which MMOs have bigger guild halls, released the equivalent of 3 professions in their expansion? How about progression systems that not only had content related to the expansion in question but also previous content. How about expansions that revamped, 3 core systems at once? should be easy if all of this is underwhelming right?

ffxiv;
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Housing

This kind of proves my point.
FFXIV Guildhall you get: http://www.ffxivinfo.com/images/screenshots/ffxiv-1047.jpg
Gw2 you get:
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RsZfY8nAZzo/maxresdefault.jpg

much larger!

also housing wasnt released with the expansion, so if you’re counting free upgrades part of the expansion, HoT would be way larger.

phys.7689:

3 new jobs

Never said Gw2 is the only Expansion ever to release 3 new professions, I only said expansion generally contain 1 or 2. FFXIV is on Par does that mean HoT is lacklaster?

phys.7689:

most new expansions add new progression systems, not sure thats a big deal.

I didnt say HoT is notable cause it adds a new progression system, I said its notable because unlike other Expansions which add a progression exclusively for their new content, HoT also added that progression for the old content. Its undeniable Anet would have had less to do if they only had masteries for the new zones and forgot about the old once right?

phys.7689:

revamping core systems isnt really a bonus, its done because the core systems werent working out for the future of the game.

You really think its a problem to mold new content for existent mechanics? Like say couldnt Anet simply have said forget Elite specializations lets just do 3 new professions insteads and avoided redoing the whole trait system? Do you really think the issue here is Anet had to do it because their system couldnt be expanded upon in any real way while most other MMOs get it right on the first try and never have to expand OR perhaps its more likely that Anet arent afraid to take the hit and redesign things in order to release actual new stuff rather then more of the same stuff ?

BondageBill.4021:

On the topic of clearly defining what you get for the $50 HoT price tag, I want to know if purchasing HoT will guarantee access to the full LS releases post HoT. Many people are assuming HoT will entitle them to all future content (until the next xpac), but ANet has already shown us that they are willing to charge existing customers for LS content.

didnt they also show us they’re willing to give it to us for free?

though to add to this, we unfortunately also showed them that when they give us stuff for free we use it against them so…..

How many money i get back if i buy HoT with guild wars 2. How many money i get back or how many gems i get?

I dont want buy HoT WITH guild wars 2 cause i have guild wars 2 and i must pay second time for guild wars 2.

Any option to get only HoT?

Here is a link to all that is offered with Pre-purchase, including the refund offer, which has expired: https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ/#Additional

The core game is now Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns; there is no way to purchase only Heart of Thorns.

Good luck.

You are not paying a second time for the base game, the expansion is priced at $50 regardless of whether they ahd decided to give the core game free to new players.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

there is no way to purchase only Heart of Thorns.

You can purchase just HoT through the in-game store. **

Um, it comes bundled with Guild Wars 2. Now, you can choose to upgrade your existing account, or create a new account, but there is no way to purchase HoT without the core game, anymore.

Can i want moneyback from developers if expansion are not good like base game for 50 $?

I don’t see a problem with it to be honest. Just entices more people to join Guild Wars 2. In an MMO, more players is better for everybody.

Whats the big deal?

does HoT include Season 2 of the story quests from the core game?

Galen Grey.4709:

BondageBill.4021:

On the topic of clearly defining what you get for the $50 HoT price tag, I want to know if purchasing HoT will guarantee access to the full LS releases post HoT. Many people are assuming HoT will entitle them to all future content (until the next xpac), but ANet has already shown us that they are willing to charge existing customers for LS content.

didnt they also show us they’re willing to give it to us for free?

though to add to this, we unfortunately also showed them that when they give us stuff for free we use it against them so…..

ANet’s most recent LS Marketing policy (LS2) is that the updates are given for free to customers who log in during specific windows; otherwise, customers must pay for the updates. As one of the main speculative selling points I see from the community is that HoT will give access to LS3 (and beyond), I think it is reasonable to request clarification on whether their pricing policy for the LS will be changed.

Frankly, unless otherwise stated by ANet, I can only assume their current LS pricing policy remains intact. I certainly do not want to buy HoT, then get charged for LS content that is likely going to round out the main HoT storyline.

fate.3724:

does HoT include Season 2 of the story quests from the core game?

No. Those are still separate.

Chobits.2430:

I certainly cannot think of another game where I spent $50 and got over 5K hours of enjoyment out of it. Skyrim comes in at not even a close second for value with around 400 hours.
I spent an estimated $600 on WoW fees/expansions for 3 years and didn’t even get nearly 5K hours played (3K if I remember correctly).

For me is many Monster Hunter games, Neverwinter Nights (By rough extimation, the game didn’t had a counter for played hours as far as I know.) 1.8k hours on Warframe but played for much less than 2 years.

Not even sure how many hours I got out of GW, probably less than 100, so really I’m not really into purchasing the expansion pack for that price considered the Core game didn’t attracted me that much… Hell, I didn’t even bothered finishing the main campaign…

My point of view, isn’t the one of an enthusiast, I understand that if people had lot of enjoyement with the game then they have all the reasons to feel cool with the Expansion being at that price and the gifted Core Game coming with. It DOES encourage new players to give it a try…

I was slightly curious about the new expansion, wondering if it was to introduce new classes\skills that would have made me interested again, but €45 isn’t the price I’d pay to try it. I’d rather toss that money for Elite: Dangerous, which actually costs less and is a full game, since in my youth I spent much time playing the original Elite and Frontier games.

All the best wishes to ANet to attract more newcomers, but I doubt they’ll be able to bring back the old players who had left…

By the way, what’s Living Story?

If HoT is the new Core Game: I should own HoT since I own the original game.

Please close thread, I solved the problem. Thanks.

clarkcd.6532:

The only issue I had was that they were releasing a new class but were not releasing a character slot to go with it. That has been rectified and I am once again a happy GW2 player.

Meh. It certainly hasn’t been rectified as far as I’m concerned. An additional (not “free”, mind you, because the expansion costs money) character slot is a basic requirement for any expansion that comes with a new profession.

They spun the whole “free” character slot issue as though they were doing us some kind of giant favor, when in fact they were simply using it to drum up pre-purchase sales among their existing player base.

Sorry, but I refuse to be grateful for something that should be included in the price of HoT to begin with. What they are selling, with all the enthusiasm of a snake oil salesman, is something that is claimed to be “free” while they attach strings and conditions to whether or not you qualify to receive it.

I will not pre-purchase HoT (or any other game/expansion). I refuse. It sets a terrible precedent and encourages game companies to feel entitled to our money before they even have a completed product to release. That, right there, is where I draw the line. And if they intend (as they obviously do) to withhold a HoT character slot from me because I will not hand over my cash before they are ready to hand over the product, then that will be the final straw.

I’m done.

Uninstall, don’t look back, and nobody gets my stuff.

ETA: ANet, I hope that character slot you are holding on to so tightly was worth losing a customer over.

Emik.7156:

How many money i get back if i buy HoT with guild wars 2. How many money i get back or how many gems i get?

I dont want buy HoT WITH guild wars 2 cause i have guild wars 2 and i must pay second time for guild wars 2.

Any option to get only HoT?

if you buy HoT and already have Guild wars 2 you’ll get all the money they’re charging for bundling Gw2 with HoT back. Unfortunately that happens to be $0 so …..

BondageBill.4021:

Galen Grey.4709:

BondageBill.4021:

On the topic of clearly defining what you get for the $50 HoT price tag, I want to know if purchasing HoT will guarantee access to the full LS releases post HoT. Many people are assuming HoT will entitle them to all future content (until the next xpac), but ANet has already shown us that they are willing to charge existing customers for LS content.

didnt they also show us they’re willing to give it to us for free?

though to add to this, we unfortunately also showed them that when they give us stuff for free we use it against them so…..

ANet’s most recent LS Marketing policy (LS2) is that the updates are given for free to customers who log in during specific windows; otherwise, customers must pay for the updates. As one of the main speculative selling points I see from the community is that HoT will give access to LS3 (and beyond), I think it is reasonable to request clarification on whether their pricing policy for the LS will be changed.

Frankly, unless otherwise stated by ANet, I can only assume their current LS pricing policy remains intact. I certainly do not want to buy HoT, then get charged for LS content that is likely going to round out the main HoT storyline.

exactly, unless stated otherwise the reasonable assumption is they will keep their current model but thats not what you implied in your previous post. You implied because they charged people who didnt unlock it for free assuming their model will not change is not reasonable. Essentially you tried to spread some FUD which is a problem. Your question would have been 100% valid if only you left that last part out. In anycase they’re discussing the future of the game this Saturday, I am sure they’re plans for LS3 will be expanded upon.

Heylel.2109:

I was slightly curious about the new expansion, wondering if it was to introduce new classes\skills that would have made me interested again, but €45 isn’t the price I’d pay to try it. I’d rather toss that money for Elite: Dangerous, which actually costs less and is a full game, since in my youth I spent much time playing the original Elite and Frontier games.

Just for accuracy’s sake but Elite dangerous really doesnt cost less. Elite dangerous is doing exactly the same thing as Gw2 is with regards of its expansion with the exception they’re charging a little more if you dont have the core game already. Buying the latest expansion will come with the core game if you dont have it and it costs $60. if you have the core game already the expansion costs $50.

you can still buy the core game alone for $45 for now but then again you can also buy the core gw2 game from various outlets like amazon for $20. No matter how you look at it Elite dangerous doesnt cost less then Gw2 it costs a little more actually.

Now whats living story…. wow thats a hard question. So starting about february 2013 Arenanet started a system they called living story. Basically every 2 weeks Arenanet would release an update that contained a story instance / other goodies where they would move forward the game’s story line. Season 1 ended march 2014 after 26 episodes (not all of them were living story related, some included SAB etc..)
Season 1 was unfortunately temporary, ie if you missed an episode thats it you cant play it again. A lot of people had issues with that. Another issue people had is they found each release to be smallish (each story instance was about 30 mins long give or take, they had achievements you could do that would provide more playtime but still it felt like the pace of the story was kinda slow)

Arenanet addressed these concerns with their Season 2 releases. Now each episode included 4-5 story instances while still keeping the 2 week interval between releases but to make up for the extra load season 2 was split into 2 and there was a break inbetween the first part and the 2nd part.

Season 2 started november 2014 and ended january 2015. Season 2 is also replayable. each episode was given for free to all those who simply logged even for 1 second during the 2 week interval where that episode was running or it can be purchased for 200 gems per episode for those who missed it. There are 8 episodes in all (with 4-5 instances in each)

season 2 story ended exactly at the point where the expansion starts off. Season 2 also picked up where season 1 left off. Essentially season 1 and 2 are the lore behind the expension so to speak, only instead of it being simple background story we got to play it all which is pretty awesome in my opinion.

If you want to know what the story was all about its summerized here:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_season_1
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_season_2

minbariguy.7504:

I will not pre-purchase HoT (or any other game/expansion). I refuse. It sets a terrible precedent and encourages game companies to feel entitled to our money before they even have a completed product to release. That, right there, is where I draw the line. And if they intend (as they obviously do) to withhold a HoT character slot from me because I will not hand over my cash before they are ready to hand over the product, then that will be the final straw.

I’m done.

Uninstall, don’t look back, and nobody gets my stuff.

ETA: ANet, I hope that character slot you are holding on to so tightly was worth losing a customer over.

Funny I thought they’re giving you the character slot not holding on to it so tightly yet you’re still say you’re quiting so who’s exactly setting the precedent here. Arenanet who gave in to what players wanted and gave the free character slot away or you who’s essentially telling them next time dont bother, sell that character slot rather then giving it away because its not like we’ll be happy about it so whats the point?

Galen Grey.4709:

Funny I thought they’re giving you the character slot not holding on to it so tightly yet you’re still say you’re quiting so who’s exactly setting the precedent here. Arenanet who gave in to what players wanted and gave the free character slot away or you who’s essentially telling them next time dont bother, sell that character slot rather then giving it away because its not like we’ll be happy about it so whats the point?

They are only giving the character slot to those who pre-purchase the expansion. I will not pre-purchase. Therefore:

They are most certainly not giving me the character slot.

Because apparently simply giving them my money at the same time they provide the product I am paying for isn’t good enough for them.

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

Funny I thought they’re giving you the character slot not holding on to it so tightly yet you’re still say you’re quiting so who’s exactly setting the precedent here. Arenanet who gave in to what players wanted and gave the free character slot away or you who’s essentially telling them next time dont bother, sell that character slot rather then giving it away because its not like we’ll be happy about it so whats the point?

They are only giving the character slot to those who pre-purchase the expansion. I will not pre-purchase. Therefore:

They are most certainly not giving me the character slot.

Because apparently simply giving them my money at the same time they provide the product I am paying for isn’t good enough for them.

Thats the deal with bonuses, you go out of your way (pre-purchase), they go out of their way (give you bonuses).

if you’re not willing to go out of your way and you have every right not to why do they need to give you anything more then what you’re buying which is the expansion?

Thing is once you’re satisfied that whatever they’re offering is worth what they’re asking for why is that a problem? If you intended to buy anyway pre-purchase 1 day before release and you’re golden. Will that 1 day change anything?