Guild Wars 2

Mirta.5029:

Ayrilana.1396:

You had the opportunity to have the content for free but you chose to forego it for whatever reason. The cost of the future living story episodes isn’t necessarily included in the cost of the expansion.

original statement that I was arguing against.

It does have value which is what I said after that. If you hadn’t split my single argument into two then you would have seen that.

Mirta.5029:

Ayrilana.1396:

What we do know is that those episodes have a value, and since having the expansion is a prerequisite to obtain them, they’re part of the value that you get by purchasing the expansion.

that’s like saying that because the previous expansion is a prerequisite for the next expansion, the next expansion is part of the current expansion’s value. Which it isn’t.

No. There’s a cut off because you must pay for the next expansion.

Mirta.5029:

Ayrilana.1396:

Let’s say that if you give me 200G today that in 3 months I will buy you a precursor of your choice but you have 24 hours after we hit that 3-month mark before the your ability to obtain the precursor expires. You’re saying that the deal that you just bought for 200G has no value beyond that 200G simply because you could not be online during that 24 hours to claim your precursor? You’d be wrong.

Actually what you’re describing right now is a scam. If money is exchanged you expect definite results. Meaning that if you put up such a claim I would expect you to send me the precursor, I’m online or not. Else of course that 200G deal has no value if it’s a 50/50 chance of that 200G being just thrown away. Meaning I wouldn’t make such a deal with you. And I’m not making a deal with Anet either, based on future content.

Actually, it’s not a scam. I tried to keep things incredibly simple for you because I don’t think you have had any exposure into the business world. The point being was that deal had a value tied to it regardless as to whether there was a possibility that you may or may not be able to claim it within the 24-hour window.

Mirta.5029:

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re also mistaken that you cannot put value on something that has some uncertainty in the future. It’s done all the time in the business world. Just look at car insurance. Based on a myriad of factors and analytics, you’re given a price for an insurance policy. At that point in time, that’s what it is worth. It can change in the future for better or worse but it still has a value at that point in time.

Entertainment product is not insurance. You pay money for entertainment. Entertainment that you’ll get right now. It’s like someone trying to sell you a 60$ movie ticket saying “you can not only see the movie today, but also maybe watch the sequel that will maybe come out sometime that you could potentially get for free if you come into the theater at a specific date and then maybe the sequel that will maybe come out even later!”. There’s no guarantee that the sequels will come. There’s no guarantee that you’ll like the movie and there’s no guarantee that even if you liked the movie and the sequels did come that you’ll like them.

There’s no dates, no promises in that sentence. There’s just a lot of maybes. You don’t take in “maybe something awesome will happen!” into a consideration when you’re buying an entertainment product. You go “is this movie with 60$ right now?” and that’s what you base your purchase of.

Yes, entertainment is not insurance but it doesn’t negate the example I was giving to try and explain to you the concepts of how something can have future value despite there being uncertainty around it.

How to you think businesses decide to expand? When they contemplate adding a new location to they just immediately decide whether they do or not? Or do they plan out what the cost will be, future revenues, potential risks, what a projected return might be, and so on before doing it. The value of that venture is based on projected returns despite their being potential risks that they might not realize some or all of the projected return.

Ayrilana.1396:

No. There’s a cut off because you must pay for the next expansion.

And you must pay for Living Story. Your point?

Ayrilana.1396:

Actually, it’s not a scam. I tried to keep things incredibly simple for you because I don’t think you have had any exposure into the business world. The point being was that deal had a value tied to it regardless as to whether there was a possibility that you may or may not be able to claim it within the 24-hour window.

even gift vouchers in Europe have to be expiration date free. Else it’s considered a scam.

Ayrilana.1396:

Yes, entertainment is not insurance but it doesn’t negate the example I was giving to try and explain to you the concepts of how something can have future value despite there being uncertainty around it.

How to you think businesses decide to expand? When they contemplate adding a new location to they just immediately decide whether they do or not? Or do they plan out what the cost will be, future revenues, potential risks, what a projected return might be, and so on before doing it. The value of that venture is based on projected returns despite their being potential risks that they might not realize some or all of the projected return.

once again now you’re talking about property acquisition and not an entertainment product from a consumers point of view.

Mirta.5029:

Ayrilana.1396:

No. There’s a cut off because you must pay for the next expansion.

And you must pay for Living Story. Your point?

You must pay for the next expansion. The content between HoT and the next expansion is included in the value that you get from purchasing HoT whether or not that content has a cost.

Mirta.5029:

Ayrilana.1396:

Actually, it’s not a scam. I tried to keep things incredibly simple for you because I don’t think you have had any exposure into the business world. The point being was that deal had a value tied to it regardless as to whether there was a possibility that you may or may not be able to claim it within the 24-hour window.

even gift vouchers in Europe have to be expiration date free. Else it’s considered a scam.

Read up on call options. This also is nothing like a gift voucher which has a stored value upon purchase.

Mirta.5029:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yes, entertainment is not insurance but it doesn’t negate the example I was giving to try and explain to you the concepts of how something can have future value despite there being uncertainty around it.

How to you think businesses decide to expand? When they contemplate adding a new location to they just immediately decide whether they do or not? Or do they plan out what the cost will be, future revenues, potential risks, what a projected return might be, and so on before doing it. The value of that venture is based on projected returns despite their being potential risks that they might not realize some or all of the projected return.

once again now you’re talking about property acquisition and not an entertainment product from a consumers point of view.

And once again you’re failing to understand the concepts. Either that or you’re unable to argue against them so you focus on something that really has no bearing on the argument itself.

But since you’re so fixated on whether something is an entertainment product…

You purchase a 3-month subscription to Playstation Online which you choose to go into effect at the end of this month. Since anything can happen that can prevent you from experiencing some, or all, of your subscription, does that mean it has no value?

Let’s say that on October 3rd, a freak accident happens and destroys all of your things and you can no longer access the Playstation Online network. Does that mean that at the time of your purchase that you purchased something that had no value?

I’ve kept this even simpler than the last examples and tried to keep it related to an “entertainment product” since you’re so fixated on that and that things cannot share the same concept. It’s like I’m trying to explain how gravity works when it pertains to an apple to illustrate how it works for an orange but you try to negate what I say because an apple is red and an orange is orange. Something that has no relevancy to what’s being explained.

Mirta.5029:

You don’t take in “maybe something awesome will happen!” into a consideration when you’re buying an entertainment product.

People have been purchasing entertainment products with a maybe something good will happen element for well over one hundred years now.

Collectible cards (Sports and now CCGs) are an entertainment product that one purchases with a high degree of uncertainty regarding the specifics of what one will get. This uncertainty includes value of the entertainment product. Some cards are worth thousands of dollars (or more) while others have a sell value less than the cost to produce them. Some cards have what could be considered an actual negative value as the time spent throwing them away is worth more than the card itself.

Ayrilana.1396:

You purchase a 3-month subscription to Playstation Online which you choose to go into effect at the end of this month. Since anything can happen that can prevent you from experiencing some, or all, of your subscription, does that mean it has no value?

Well to begin with some companies will gladly freeze the sub for you.
Furthermore, there’s no maybe’s in what you’re buying there. You’re paying a specific sum to have access to a specific product for a specific amount of time.

Even if to say that buying the expansion gets you access to updates, there’s no guarantee that updates will even be expansion exclusive. For all we know expansions will be set up in a non linear fashion, the story of current dragon will be solved with the current expansion and LS3 will set up the story of the transition into another dragons territory.
In fact you can’t even guarantee that there even will be an LS3. For all we know most of the updates will be made out of seasonal events and things like SAB.

With there being 0 promises given by the devs in regards to updates, how can you claim that any of the HoTs price is update price? You pay for HoTs for exactly what it has right now and what’s promised to come in the immediate future (for example that one and only raid). Its price has nothing to do with future updates that may or may not be exclusive and may or may not come.

Ashen.2907:

Collectible cards (Sports and now CCGs) are an entertainment product that one purchases with a high degree of uncertainty regarding the specifics of what one will get. This uncertainty includes value of the entertainment product. Some cards are worth thousands of dollars (or more) while others have a sell value less than the cost to produce them. Some cards have what could be considered an actual negative value as the time spent throwing them away is worth more than the card itself.

MMOs have no actual value behind accounts though. You could consider HoT as a future investment if you were planning to get all the exclusive content and sell your account off, however selling accounts off is against the ToS.

Coulter.2315:

I’ve bought Guild Wars products for 10 years and never been disappointed with a release.

So? I’ve bought each and every expansion since GW1 came out.
I even pre-ordered each and every pre-order to get the extra slots.
I pre-ordered GW2
I have four GW2 accounts

The difference is that GW1 was worth it. The cotent you got was worth the price they were asking for.

I expected the same for GW2, hence why I have more than 1 account.
But GW2 has been getting worse week on week for the last 3 years!

I was a PvE only player, even in GW1.
Come to GW2, I did the stroy mission for my main character, but whilst doing it I found the PvE to be very boring, not engaging, and the dynamic events just meant nothing as the events reset withing minutes of you completing one.
There is no flow from one to another, expect a few here and there. You just run around and do what ever is there.

So as a WvW player now, what have we received in the last 3 years? Peanuts, even Dumbo got more peanuts than us!
And what does this expansion bring us? 1 new map, which is 2 years well overdue!

And what do veteran players get? 1 free slot ONLY if they pre-purchase! You get nothing if you purchase after release!

So for me, if I were to pre-purchase HoT I would get:

• 1 free character slot *order before 23rd October
• 1 new WvW map filled with more PvE than ever before. Cos WvW players typically are really into PvE
• Some bad PvE which I may play during bad matchups.

And all of this for only £35!!!! Nah, not worth it.

And if there was more content, then dont you think they should mention it by now, the feature pack is being released in only a months time now!

Mirta.5029:

Ayrilana.1396:

You purchase a 3-month subscription to Playstation Online which you choose to go into effect at the end of this month. Since anything can happen that can prevent you from experiencing some, or all, of your subscription, does that mean it has no value?

Well to begin with some companies will gladly freeze the sub for you.
Furthermore, there’s no maybe’s in what you’re buying there. You’re paying a specific sum to have access to a specific product for a specific amount of time.

Even if to say that buying the expansion gets you access to updates, there’s no guarantee that updates will even be expansion exclusive. For all we know expansions will be set up in a non linear fashion, the story of current dragon will be solved with the current expansion and LS3 will set up the story of the transition into another dragons territory.
In fact you can’t even guarantee that there even will be an LS3. For all we know most of the updates will be made out of seasonal events and things like SAB.

With there being 0 promises given by the devs in regards to updates, how can you claim that any of the HoTs price is update price? You pay for HoTs for exactly what it has right now and what’s promised to come in the immediate future (for example that one and only raid). Its price has nothing to do with future updates that may or may not be exclusive and may or may not come.

Ashen.2907:

Collectible cards (Sports and now CCGs) are an entertainment product that one purchases with a high degree of uncertainty regarding the specifics of what one will get. This uncertainty includes value of the entertainment product. Some cards are worth thousands of dollars (or more) while others have a sell value less than the cost to produce them. Some cards have what could be considered an actual negative value as the time spent throwing them away is worth more than the card itself.

MMOs have no actual value behind accounts though. You could consider HoT as a future investment if you were planning to get all the exclusive content and sell your account off, however selling accounts off is against the ToS.

You’re stil failing to understand concept that I’m trying to explain to you and comment about parts that have no relevancy. At this point, after several posts and half a dozen examples, it’s likely you won’t understand it until you get out into the business world. It’s just disappointing that you cannot understand that future things can still have value regardless as to their certainty or not.

Please stop saying that I’m talking about price. Value and price are not the same thing. Go look it up in the dictionary. It’s a shame that there’s a decent subset of players that are under a misinformed impression that they’re one and the same.

Anet has already stated that all future living story updates will require HoT. Or at least up to the next expansion. They haven’t specifically commented about holiday events but I personally see no reason why those shouldn’t be available to everyone. They’ve also already said that there would be another living story season.

Mirta.5029:

Ayrilana.1396:

You purchase a 3-month subscription to Playstation Online which you choose to go into effect at the end of this month. Since anything can happen that can prevent you from experiencing some, or all, of your subscription, does that mean it has no value?

Well to begin with some companies will gladly freeze the sub for you.
Furthermore, there’s no maybe’s in what you’re buying there. You’re paying a specific sum to have access to a specific product for a specific amount of time.

Even if to say that buying the expansion gets you access to updates, there’s no guarantee that updates will even be expansion exclusive. For all we know expansions will be set up in a non linear fashion, the story of current dragon will be solved with the current expansion and LS3 will set up the story of the transition into another dragons territory.
In fact you can’t even guarantee that there even will be an LS3. For all we know most of the updates will be made out of seasonal events and things like SAB.

With there being 0 promises given by the devs in regards to updates, how can you claim that any of the HoTs price is update price? You pay for HoTs for exactly what it has right now and what’s promised to come in the immediate future (for example that one and only raid). Its price has nothing to do with future updates that may or may not be exclusive and may or may not come.

Ashen.2907:

Collectible cards (Sports and now CCGs) are an entertainment product that one purchases with a high degree of uncertainty regarding the specifics of what one will get. This uncertainty includes value of the entertainment product. Some cards are worth thousands of dollars (or more) while others have a sell value less than the cost to produce them. Some cards have what could be considered an actual negative value as the time spent throwing them away is worth more than the card itself.

MMOs have no actual value behind accounts though. You could consider HoT as a future investment if you were planning to get all the exclusive content and sell your account off, however selling accounts off is against the ToS.

I believe the Devs (well, Colin and Mike) state in these interviews that updates are ‘promised’ with HoT.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pax-prime-2015-news-roundup/

That should ease your mind.

Mirta.5029:

Jimson.5168:

invalid comparisons to other games, and just plain anger about something with no valid information to back up such a reaction

invalid comparisons? Like what? If we’re able to point at other MMOs and state that there we can get more in an expansion pack for cheaper, then I don’t see that as invalid comparison at all.

I’m not quite sure where you’re able to make this statement like this. You can try to separate subscription fees from expansion costs, but in the end you are paying significantly more money as required to access certain games like FFXIV or WoW. If you are financially able to ignore these recurring costs, then the expansion costs should mean nothing to you since they are dwarfed in comparison to total game cost. If not, then they must be accounted for when talking money.

Over a year, after an expansion has released, GW2:HoT will require $50 (or your local equivalent) since gem purchases are optional. Similarly, playing WoW or FFXIV will cost you $230 over the same time period. This is 4.6x the cost. Ignoring value obtained and only looking at cost, GW2:HoT technically only needs to supply ~21.7% of the content as these other games in order to make the costs equivalent, and this is only after 1 year.

If GW2 launches another expansion after 2 years, GW2:HoT would have still only cost $50 whereas the other two would have cost $410 over the same time period.

Mirta.5029:

IndigoSundown.5419:

It seems that the pricing includes whatever comes with the release day patch, plus whatever is added thereafter. Other games’ expansions sometimes include later free releases as well, but the games I’ve seen that do this, there’s also a sub.

A bit of a lengthy post that I made a page before:

Mirta.5029:

point is, you can’t include ANY temporary or temporarily free event into “this is what veterans got” and at the same time you can’t include such content into “this is what comes with the expansion”, because weather or not you got it would depend on were you there.

As opposed to majority of other MMOs updates (that are not seasonal events). Take for example FFXIV. Every patch for ARR they added 3 new dungeons, every second patch they added new raid turns and every second patch they added casual content such as dailies and their casino called “The Golden Saucer”. A person that would buy the base game now, would get all of it. A person that was subbed at the time of the patch got it. And a person that wasn’t there at that point will still find the content there when they return. That’s the sort of game where you could say “expansion price includes further patches”, because most further patch content will be expansion content.

However even then people don’t judge the expansion’s worth on what’s to come. They judge it on what is there. The same way that they don’t judge the game on all the temporary events that it had, they judge it on permanent content that you get after that one purchase. Therefore going “buy HoT for future living world” is as wrong as it can get.

point is, if what’s on offer right now is appealing to you, go for it! However you can’t say that price includes future updates, because so far majority of the updates were either temporary, or pay if you missed it kind of deal, which suggests not free and not included with the fee of the expansion. If they change their strategy for season 3, then the “LS price is included” statement could stand.

I certainly can say that the price includes future updates if those future updates require I own HoT to access them. If I don’t buy HoT, I don’t even get the chance to “own them” by logging in during their release window. If I do, I have that opportunity.

As to whether they’d be free or not … I could pay for a month of a sub game, then circumstances could intervene and prevent me from playing that month. Who knows what I might miss? It might be nothing that I can’t do later, or it might not.

The same would apply if the LS3 model mimics LS2. I’d be paying to be able to access it. If I then can’t (or don’t), then too bad for me, that would be my bad luck. However, in both cases the business provided the access offered and set a price which I paid.

mirta and ashen you two are not placing the same version of value. mirta you are pointing out the inherent value the personal value on the item. Ashen you are placing only the monetary value of it. so you are both arguing the same thing and will never see eye to eye

MiniEquine.6014:

I’m not quite sure where you’re able to make this statement like this. You can try to separate subscription fees from expansion costs, but in the end you are paying significantly more money as required to access certain games like FFXIV or WoW. If you are financially able to ignore these recurring costs, then the expansion costs should mean nothing to you since they are dwarfed in comparison to total game cost. If not, then they must be accounted for when talking money.

Over a year, after an expansion has released, GW2:HoT will require $50 (or your local equivalent) since gem purchases are optional. Similarly, playing WoW or FFXIV will cost you $230 over the same time period. This is 4.6x the cost. Ignoring value obtained and only looking at cost, GW2:HoT technically only needs to supply ~21.7% of the content as these other games in order to make the costs equivalent, and this is only after 1 year.

If GW2 launches another expansion after 2 years, GW2:HoT would have still only cost $50 whereas the other two would have cost $410 over the same time period.

previously in this thread GW2s expansion price was also compared to Rift. Rift’s is far cheaper, for what could be more content. However because you are capable to access everything in it for free, except for gear people discounted it.

Truth be told GW2 with its expansion pricing is probably the most expensive F2P on the market.

Mirta.5029:

MiniEquine.6014:

I’m not quite sure where you’re able to make this statement like this. You can try to separate subscription fees from expansion costs, but in the end you are paying significantly more money as required to access certain games like FFXIV or WoW. If you are financially able to ignore these recurring costs, then the expansion costs should mean nothing to you since they are dwarfed in comparison to total game cost. If not, then they must be accounted for when talking money.

Over a year, after an expansion has released, GW2:HoT will require $50 (or your local equivalent) since gem purchases are optional. Similarly, playing WoW or FFXIV will cost you $230 over the same time period. This is 4.6x the cost. Ignoring value obtained and only looking at cost, GW2:HoT technically only needs to supply ~21.7% of the content as these other games in order to make the costs equivalent, and this is only after 1 year.

If GW2 launches another expansion after 2 years, GW2:HoT would have still only cost $50 whereas the other two would have cost $410 over the same time period.

previously in this thread GW2s expansion price was also compared to Rift. Rift’s is far cheaper, for what could be more content. However because you are capable to access everything in it for free, except for gear people discounted it.

Truth be told GW2 with its expansion pricing is probably the most expensive F2P on the market.

Other F2P games that charge for expansions also have a subscription available that gives all kind of benefits. Having a subscription model would play a part in determining prices for expansions.

Mirta.5029:

previously in this thread GW2s expansion price was also compared to Rift. Rift’s is far cheaper, for what could be more content. However because you are capable to access everything in it for free, except for gear people discounted it.

Truth be told GW2 with its expansion pricing is probably the most expensive F2P on the market.

I checked out Rift and its “Patron” accounts range from $15/month/1 month to $10/month/12 months. These Patron accounts almost seem necessary to fully enjoy the game, which you could absolutely say that buying HoT is like that too and I would agree, but the difference is that HoT is Buy2Play and Rift (Patron) is subscription-based. This falls into the same issue as the other two games, even if there is a lot to do.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ayrilana.1396:

Let’s say that if you give me 200G today that in 3 months I will buy you a precursor of your choice but you have 24 hours after we hit that 3-month mark before the your ability to obtain the precursor expires. You’re saying that the deal that you just bought for 200G has no value beyond that 200G simply because you could not be online during that 24 hours to claim your precursor? You’d be wrong.

Actually what you’re describing right now is a scam. If money is exchanged you expect definite results. Meaning that if you put up such a claim I would expect you to send me the precursor, I’m online or not. Else of course that 200G deal has no value if it’s a 50/50 chance of that 200G being just thrown away. Meaning I wouldn’t make such a deal with you. And I’m not making a deal with Anet either, based on future content.

Actually, it’s not a scam. I tried to keep things incredibly simple for you because I don’t think you have had any exposure into the business world. The point being was that deal had a value tied to it regardless as to whether there was a possibility that you may or may not be able to claim it within the 24-hour window.
[/quote]

It´s indeed not a scam, but the joke would still be on the seller, at least in my country.
Let´s take the dreaded wedding cake example:
-A wedding cake delivered on the day of the wedding is a job well done and a happy bride. Had to argue for compensation here.
-A bad wedding cake that gives the flu to everyone. You can ask for compensation because it was bad and did not come as agreed on in the contract, but the contract itself stays valid.
-A wedding cake delivered on the day after the wedding is a mess and has no worth for anyone. Contract is off because the time window was so clearly limited and the purpose was so clear that no right to give back or send it to a later date can save the purpose. Breach of contract.
-A wedding cake not delivered is another story at all and indeed a scam.

With a limited time table of the offer of the precursor being available, there is no such clear purpose. The buyer wants to use it in general, not only on his wedding day or at one special reason. So you can easily give the precursor after getting notified that you´re late. If not, you need to compensate it´s worth or go to court.

Edit: Well, there are some exceptions with foreign goods shipped into your respective country where right on time reigns supreme, but again, the buyer is in a protected position most of the time. Depending on what both parties agreed on, there are safety nets everywhere with business agents snug in between.

Torolan.5816:

Ayrilana.1396:

Ayrilana.1396:

Let’s say that if you give me 200G today that in 3 months I will buy you a precursor of your choice but you have 24 hours after we hit that 3-month mark before the your ability to obtain the precursor expires. You’re saying that the deal that you just bought for 200G has no value beyond that 200G simply because you could not be online during that 24 hours to claim your precursor? You’d be wrong.

Actually what you’re describing right now is a scam. If money is exchanged you expect definite results. Meaning that if you put up such a claim I would expect you to send me the precursor, I’m online or not. Else of course that 200G deal has no value if it’s a 50/50 chance of that 200G being just thrown away. Meaning I wouldn’t make such a deal with you. And I’m not making a deal with Anet either, based on future content.

Actually, it’s not a scam. I tried to keep things incredibly simple for you because I don’t think you have had any exposure into the business world. The point being was that deal had a value tied to it regardless as to whether there was a possibility that you may or may not be able to claim it within the 24-hour window.

It´s indeed not a scam, but the joke would still be on the seller, at least in my country.
Let´s take the dreaded wedding cake example:
-A wedding cake delivered on the day of the wedding is a job well done and a happy bride. Had to argue for compensation here.
-A bad wedding cake that gives the flu to everyone. You can ask for compensation because it was bad and did not come as agreed on in the contract, but the contract itself stays valid.
-A wedding cake delivered on the day after the wedding is a mess and has no worth for anyone. Contract is off because the time window was so clearly limited and the purpose was so clear that no right to give back or send it to a later date can save the purpose. Breach of contract.
-A wedding cake not delivered is another story at all and indeed a scam.

With a limited time table of the offer of the precursor being available, there is no such clear purpose. The buyer wants to use it in general, not only on his wedding day or at one special reason. So you can easily give the precursor after getting notified that you´re late. If not, you need to compensate it´s worth or go to court.

Edit: Well, there are some exceptions with foreign goods shipped into your respective country where right on time reigns supreme, but again, the buyer is in a protected position most of the time. Depending on what both parties agreed on, there are safety nets everywhere with business agents snug in between.

I think you messed up when removing some of the quoted posts. The part about me saying it was a scam never happened. That was the other poster that said that.

That example appears weak and unlikely to happen because it was dumbed down so much so that the poster would understand it. It was meant to mirror a call option but I didn’t want to confuse them as I didn’t think they knew what that was.

MiniEquine.6014:

These Patron accounts almost seem necessary to fully enjoy the game

False. I was able to play as a F2P user for years just fine. To argue that it’s necessary, would be like to argue that boosters in GW2 are absolutely necessary to have.

Mirta.5029:

MiniEquine.6014:

These Patron accounts almost seem necessary to fully enjoy the game

False. I was able to play as a F2P user for years just fine. To argue that it’s necessary, would be like to argue that boosters in GW2 are absolutely necessary to have.

Okay then. GW2 and RIFT are seemingly on a much similar level then. Both have F2P base games (and the base games are quite large too), both are releasing a Buy2Play expansion. It seems there was already an expansion launched by RIFT, though that one was $25. My point with it being “necessary” is like how having a full account in GW2 is “necessary”. If you’re fine with having 2 characters and 3 bag slots with leveling gates, sure, you could play forever for free. Those benefits granted by RIFT for being a patron are exceedingly greater than what one gets if you’re a paid-account GW2 player, though, even if they still aren’t entirely Pay2Win (from what I can tell).

MiniEquine.6014:

Mirta.5029:

MiniEquine.6014:

These Patron accounts almost seem necessary to fully enjoy the game

False. I was able to play as a F2P user for years just fine. To argue that it’s necessary, would be like to argue that boosters in GW2 are absolutely necessary to have.

Okay then. GW2 and RIFT are seemingly on a much similar level then. Both have F2P base games (and the base games are quite large too), both are releasing a Buy2Play expansion. It seems there was already an expansion launched by RIFT, though that one was $25. My point with it being “necessary” is like how having a full account in GW2 is “necessary”. If you’re fine with having 2 characters and 3 bag slots with leveling gates, sure, you could play forever for free. Those benefits granted by RIFT for being a patron are exceedingly greater than what one gets if you’re a paid-account GW2 player, though, even if they still aren’t entirely Pay2Win (from what I can tell).

More importantly none of us here like Rift enough to go play it (I tried it and did not enjoy). I’m sure its pretty popular and does well but would any of us really switch over to it?

Orochimaru.4730:

Coulter.2315:

I’ve bought Guild Wars products for 10 years and never been disappointed with a release.

So? I’ve bought each and every expansion since GW1 came out.
I even pre-ordered each and every pre-order to get the extra slots.
I pre-ordered GW2
I have four GW2 accounts

The difference is that GW1 was worth it. The cotent you got was worth the price they were asking for.

I expected the same for GW2, hence why I have more than 1 account.
But GW2 has been getting worse week on week for the last 3 years!

I was a PvE only player, even in GW1.
Come to GW2, I did the stroy mission for my main character, but whilst doing it I found the PvE to be very boring, not engaging, and the dynamic events just meant nothing as the events reset withing minutes of you completing one.
There is no flow from one to another, expect a few here and there. You just run around and do what ever is there.

So as a WvW player now, what have we received in the last 3 years? Peanuts, even Dumbo got more peanuts than us!
And what does this expansion bring us? 1 new map, which is 2 years well overdue!

And what do veteran players get? 1 free slot ONLY if they pre-purchase! You get nothing if you purchase after release!

So for me, if I were to pre-purchase HoT I would get:

• 1 free character slot *order before 23rd October
• 1 new WvW map filled with more PvE than ever before. Cos WvW players typically are really into PvE
• Some bad PvE which I may play during bad matchups.

And all of this for only £35!!!! Nah, not worth it.

And if there was more content, then dont you think they should mention it by now, the feature pack is being released in only a months time now!

This “bad PvE” content as you so “kindly” put it includes 4 massive maps with 3 layers each, which means you basically gets 12 new maps filled with dynamic content, which gets only harder during night events. (You would knew this things, if you have played the beta, or atleast bothered yourself to look it up on youtube). There’s tons of new enemies with improved AI, new weapon and armor set, 60 new skins, 3 new legendary weapons (in the start), 2 new legendary backitems, legendary armor, the new mastery system, the new gliding which allows you to explore the zone like never before in its all 3d glory, Guild Halls, increase in the level of the fractals up to 100, also lets not forget raid, which in theory should be the most challenging pve content released to this day (we will see how it goes). Also we get 1 new profession, and 1 new elite spec for each one of the exiting professions, all of which change the gameplay of your characters. Some in a small way, others in a huge way (Again this will be something you’d know if you played in the beta weekends so far).
Also they’re putting 10 new reward tracks in sPvP. Thats something I know i will enjoy and im quite exited about it myself.
Finally purchasing HoT, grants you free rent into the new LW3 and all the events that will be tied to the expansion, which will be literally all new events after October 23th.

Now, I understand that this things might not be of interest to YOU, after all different people, different tastes and all, but many people are exited for the new content and many people will play it. Also many people on the side of the developers have put long sleepless hours into this, ignoring their friends and families to make it all work together in the end, and now when they want you to pay 50$(Like really, people still complain about 50$? This is what ill pay for 2 bottles of whiskey in most of the night clubs in my town.), to keep all of this up and running in the future, its just sounds very rude and disrespectful to put it lightly.

This free character slot you’re getting is priced at 10 EU, so by getting 1 for free, the actual price you’re paying gets drop to 40 EU. There, I did the math for you, because obviously you can’t do it yourself. Also no, as a long term player, you’re not entitled to anything more, beyond what you’ve paid for. I don’t know why so many long term players, expect Anet to shower them with rewards just for sticking in the game for the past 3 years. Again they are running business, not a charity.
Are you expecting also free meals in your favourite restaurant, just because you’re a long term customer?

Just out of curiosity: Judging by the tone of your post, you don’t enjoy the game at all. So why do you even keep playing, and spend time posting in the forums of a video game you don’t like? Nothing personal, you can spend your time as you see fit, but don’t you think it will be wiser and more productive, to spend it on something you’d actually enjoy?

MirrorOfNature.4279:

Orochimaru.4730:

Coulter.2315:

I’ve bought Guild Wars products for 10 years and never been disappointed with a release.

So? I’ve bought each and every expansion since GW1 came out.
I even pre-ordered each and every pre-order to get the extra slots.
I pre-ordered GW2
I have four GW2 accounts

The difference is that GW1 was worth it. The cotent you got was worth the price they were asking for.

I expected the same for GW2, hence why I have more than 1 account.
But GW2 has been getting worse week on week for the last 3 years!

I was a PvE only player, even in GW1.
Come to GW2, I did the stroy mission for my main character, but whilst doing it I found the PvE to be very boring, not engaging, and the dynamic events just meant nothing as the events reset withing minutes of you completing one.
There is no flow from one to another, expect a few here and there. You just run around and do what ever is there.

So as a WvW player now, what have we received in the last 3 years? Peanuts, even Dumbo got more peanuts than us!
And what does this expansion bring us? 1 new map, which is 2 years well overdue!

And what do veteran players get? 1 free slot ONLY if they pre-purchase! You get nothing if you purchase after release!

So for me, if I were to pre-purchase HoT I would get:

• 1 free character slot *order before 23rd October
• 1 new WvW map filled with more PvE than ever before. Cos WvW players typically are really into PvE
• Some bad PvE which I may play during bad matchups.

And all of this for only £35!!!! Nah, not worth it.

And if there was more content, then dont you think they should mention it by now, the feature pack is being released in only a months time now!

This “bad PvE” content as you so “kindly” put it includes 4 massive maps with 3 layers each, which means you basically gets 12 new maps filled with dynamic content, which gets only harder during night events. (You would knew this things, if you have played the beta, or atleast bothered yourself to look it up on youtube). There’s tons of new enemies with improved AI, new weapon and armor set, 60 new skins, 3 new legendary weapons (in the start), 2 new legendary backitems, legendary armor, the new mastery system, the new gliding which allows you to explore the zone like never before in its all 3d glory, Guild Halls, increase in the level of the fractals up to 100, also lets not forget raid, which in theory should be the most challenging pve content released to this day (we will see how it goes). Also we get 1 new profession, and 1 new elite spec for each one of the exiting professions, all of which change the gameplay of your characters. Some in a small way, others in a huge way (Again this will be something you’d know if you played in the beta weekends so far).
Also they’re putting 10 new reward tracks in sPvP. Thats something I know i will enjoy and im quite exited about it myself.
Finally purchasing HoT, grants you free rent into the new LW3 and all the events that will be tied to the expansion, which will be literally all new events after October 23th.

Now, I understand that this things might not be of interest to YOU, after all different people, different tastes and all, but many people are exited for the new content and many people will play it. Also many people on the side of the developers have put long sleepless hours into this, ignoring their friends and families to make it all work together in the end, and now when they want you to pay 50$(Like really, people still complain about 50$? This is what ill pay for 2 bottles of whiskey in most of the night clubs in my town.), to keep all of this up and running in the future, its just sounds very rude and disrespectful to put it lightly.

This free character slot you’re getting is priced at 10 EU, so by getting 1 for free, the actual price you’re paying gets drop to 40 EU. There, I did the math for you, because obviously you can’t do it yourself. Also no, as a long term player, you’re not entitled to anything more, beyond what you’ve paid for. I don’t know why so many long term players, expect Anet to shower them with rewards just for sticking in the game for the past 3 years. Again they are running business, not a charity.
Are you expecting also free meals in your favourite restaurant, just because you’re a long term customer?

Just out of curiosity: Judging by the tone of your post, you don’t enjoy the game at all. So why do you even keep playing, and spend time posting in the forums of a video game you don’t like? Nothing personal, you can spend your time as you see fit, but don’t you think it will be wiser and more productive, to spend it on something you’d actually enjoy?

Mirta.5029:

MiniEquine.6014:

These Patron accounts almost seem necessary to fully enjoy the game

False. I was able to play as a F2P user for years just fine. To argue that it’s necessary, would be like to argue that boosters in GW2 are absolutely necessary to have.

How nice. This post of yours perfectly displays why are you arguing so much about the price of the expansion. Simple. You’re just being cheap, and you want it for free. Wake up, mate. Realise how things work in the real world outside of your windows.

MirrorOfNature.4279:

How nice. This post of yours perfectly displays why are you arguing so much about the price of the expansion. Simple. You’re just being cheap, and you want it for free. Wake up, mate. Realise how things work in the real world outside of your windows.

Really? Because I’m subbed to FFXIV right now. I don’t want it for free, I just don’t see anything in it that justifies its price.

MirrorOfNature.4279:

This “bad PvE” content as you so “kindly” put it includes 4 massive maps with 3 layers each, which means you basically gets 12 new maps filled with dynamic content, which gets only harder during night events.

google the first beta map and see how it compares to maps next to it. It’s 1/4th the size of a normal map. Even if you want to go with the “buut 3X layers!” argument, they still barely compare to regular GW2s maps, meaning that the number is exactly right. You’re buying a 4 map expansion.

The way that I see and from what I’ve heard, like 3 masteries are ones that you need to fully explore the new maps. You also need them for raiding (both gliding and mushrooms), however they’re pretty grindy. Meaning on average you’ll be stuck on a PVE map 1/3rd the normal size grinding dynamic events just to be able to unlock more of the map, versus horizontal maps where what you see is what you get.

Then the expansion got fed a lot of features that were supposed to be free updates. Guild halls were promised ages ago, so was a better guild progression, fractals were supposed to get a leaderboard in the fractal patch and what about that promise of no new gear tiers? Well feeling sorry for all of you guys as now there’s legendary armour that can only be obtained in a single raid being released with the expansion.

Many PVP updates are not even part of the expansion as everyone gets access to the SPvP and WvW map. Meaning if you’re a PVPer there’s no good reason to buy the expansion at all.

Now all that you’re left with is 1 more class and 1 new mastery line per class.

Now is it worth it? Depends on the buyer. I can see many unhappy player groups that get left out though
- smaller guilds will have a hard time with the new guild halls if the material requirements that we’ve seen are true. With so many smaller guilds begging for Anet’s support, that’s a pretty big group that gets left behind
- PvPers get nothing with the purchase, unless they want to theory craft with the new class + traits.
- dungeoneers got no mention of new dungeons at all. There’s 1 raid. Fractal rehaul that will be for everyone. And new fractal levels. If you did enjoy themed 5 man dungeons, at the moment you’re left out.
- open world PVEers should be disappointed by both the amount of maps and map size. With some expansion packs adding 12, adding 4 and asking for the full price of the main game again is a big no no.

Mirta.5029:

google the first beta map and see how it compares to maps next to it. It’s 1/4th the size of a normal map. Even if you want to go with the “buut 3X layers!” argument, they still barely compare to regular GW2s maps, meaning that the number is exactly right. You’re buying a 4 map expansion.

Mirta.5029:

- open world PVEers should be disappointed by both the amount of maps and map size. With some expansion packs adding 12, adding 4 and asking for the full price of the main game again is a big no no.

I’ve actually played on the beta maps for both occasions plus the time we had to farm portal stones. A single layer is about half the size of a regular map. You’re also forgetting that they’re going for quality (with a lot of things to do on each map) versus quantity. But of course if you prefer a dozen maps like what we have now which loses its replay-ability fairly quickly then that’s your choice.

Mirta.5029:

The way that I see and from what I’ve heard, like 3 masteries are ones that you need to fully explore the new maps. You also need them for raiding (both gliding and mushrooms), however they’re pretty grindy. Meaning on average you’ll be stuck on a PVE map 1/3rd the normal size grinding dynamic events just to be able to unlock more of the map, versus horizontal maps where what you see is what you get.

Have you played the final version of the expansion? I only ask because everything you just said is speculation based off on how little we really know. When I was doing Drytop and Silverwastes, I gained levels fairly quickly. I don’t see why these new maps wouldn’t be any different and especially since Anet has stated that they’re going to have a lot for us to do on them. All of the basic masteries to get around can be unlocked fairly quickly. You don’t need maxed masteries in order to progress the maps except for hidden areas and such.

Mirta.5029:

MMOs have no actual value behind accounts though. You could consider HoT as a future investment if you were planning to get all the exclusive content and sell your account off, however selling accounts off is against the ToS.

You said that people don’t make entertainment purchases based on the idea that something awesome might happen. I pointed out that people have been doing just that for over a hundred years.

Beta took place only in a part of the first mini-map. Nothing has been shown for the other 3 mini-maps, although they would need an intense beta test for bug fixes, given the results of the first parts of the first mini-map. That smells like a scam.

Simzani.4318:

Beta took place only in a part of the first mini-map. Nothing has been shown for the other 3 mini-maps, although they would need an intense beta test for bug fixes, given the results of the first parts of the first mini-map. That smells like a scam.

I don’t know why do you use the term ‘mini-map’. If you actually played the beta, and you think this is “mini-map”, then I truly don’t know what to tell you. Each beta let us play 25% of only 1 map. Now imagine it if you can how it will look unlocked on 100% with all the 3 layers, since we know, each layer will be the same size as the other 2. This is fact, stated by Anet developers. If you think 4 of the biggest maps ever done in an MMO to this date is not worth it and you call it “scam”, then you should probably redirect yourself to some other MMOs out there, which charges their expansion for 30$ on top of their monthly 15$ fees and give you for an expansion only 1 map, which you can cross for 30 minutes with barely any content put into into, exept for 1 new raid. Maybe you will learn the real meaning of the term ‘scam’ then.

@Mirta I don’t have to “google” the beta, I participated in both beta weekends so far, and I played them for myself. As I said already above, first beta let us play 25% of Verdant Brink, the second beta weekend let us play another 25% of the same map. The map felt completely different, almost like a whole new map the farther you were going into it, and this is only the first map we are getting with the expansion. We are getting 4 of them in total.

Finally, if you dont feel this expansion is giving you enough, you’re completely free to not purchase it. Anet is putting out new content, and those of us who enjoyed the beta, and who enjoy the game have purchased it already and we will be there at October 23th. If you’re so bitter about this game, you probably should just uninstall it from your hard and move to something you enjoy.

Nor you or me know what the 3 other mini maps are. We only know that given the parts of the first mini maps they showed, it is small. But when you say "4 of the biggest maps ever done in an MMO to this date ", we know that you are not here to discuss, just lie to us and make us buy the scammy dlc. If you want to see bigger maps, you can already do it in this game, most of them are way bigger.

Simzani.4318:

Nor you or me know what the 3 other mini maps are. We only know that given the parts of the first mini maps they showed, it is small. But when you say "4 of the biggest maps ever done in an MMO to this date ", we know that you are not here to discuss, just lie to us and make us buy the scammy dlc. If you want to see bigger maps, you can already do it in this game, most of them are way bigger.

They really shouldn’t be saying they’re the biggest maps in an MMO to date, because they probably aren’t, but why are you then insisting on calling them “mini-maps”? You have an odd obsession with that word.

In total, Verdant Brink (including the canopy and the roots) will be almost certainly larger than any GW2 map out right now. Maybe that’s what they meant, but I’m not going to try to put words in their mouth.

Also, Verdant Brink is the first of four maps. We have no information about the sizes of these other maps, but take a look at Tyria’s world map and look at the jungle there. There is quite a bit of open space northwest of Rata Sum that needs filling up.

MirrorOfNature.4279:

If you’re so bitter about this game, you probably should just uninstall it from your hard and move to something you enjoy.

funnily enough I was enjoying GW2. If you’re going to tell everyone who is skeptical about the expansion pack to leave, what do you think you’ll be left with?

Mirta.5029:

MirrorOfNature.4279:

If you’re so bitter about this game, you probably should just uninstall it from your hard and move to something you enjoy.

funnily enough I was enjoying GW2. If you’re going to tell everyone who is skeptical about the expansion pack to leave, what do you think you’ll be left with?

People who AREN’T sceptical and bitter and who are excited about HoT and what it’s bringing to the table

Simzani.4318:

Nor you or me know what the 3 other mini maps are. We only know that given the parts of the first mini maps they showed, it is small. But when you say "4 of the biggest maps ever done in an MMO to this date ", we know that you are not here to discuss, just lie to us and make us buy the scammy dlc. If you want to see bigger maps, you can already do it in this game, most of them are way bigger.

I see you and Mirta both conveniantly ignores large portions of my post, and instead you’re focusing on some small parts, which you hope will help you reinforce your point.
As I said before i played both beta weekends, and i have seen the maps in a way you possibly couldn’t, just from few short gameplay videos on youtube and screenshots.
The map we played during this beta weekends felt HUGE, and it was only one part 25% of it during the first beta weekend and another 25% during the second one. There’s entire 50% of the map that haven’t been shown yet, and the map already feels like the biggest map created in gw2 to date. This is only 1 of the new 4 maps, and it was filled with content and stuff to do. When im saying this map is the biggest one in MMO i’ve seen so far, its me talking from my MMO experience so far, which is quite solid. I can’t provide any facts on this, so you’ll just have to take my word on it. Also maybe i didn’t express myself in the most correct way, for which i apologise.
And just no. Stop use the phrase: “We don’t know enough about the expansion to decide if it’s worth or not.”, because this is simply not true anymore. 2 beta weekends have come and gone, which you can check anywhere in the web, if you haven’t participated in person, and they have been many streams on the new elits specs, and the new profession, not to mention all the information that was given on Pax.
If you personally think that all of this is just a smoke in the eyes thrown at you by Anet stuff, you’re free to think so, but don’t go out here and state outright lies.

Again I’m not trying to sell anyone on bying into this “scam” as you so redicilously insist to call it. I have zero interest to do this. Its quite clearly by now that you have absolutely no interest in bying the expansion, and we should just end this pointless conversation. Both of you, and Mirta do whatever you like, guys, its your money, its your right. Most of the people who feel like you do, probably by now just decided not to puchase anything, yet they don’t come all the time in the forums, to share their bitterness, or looking for a shoulder to cry on, because its getting more and more redicilous every time I open this topic.

To answer Mirta’s question: Probably ill be left with the huge amount of people who will get this expansion and play it.

MirrorOfNature.4279:

To answer Mirta’s question: Probably ill be left with the huge amount of people who will get this expansion and play it.

the last time I’ve heard “you should leave” was when Wildstar was being heavily defended. And look where it ended up when people did instead of complaining just got up and left.

Mirta.5029:

MirrorOfNature.4279:

To answer Mirta’s question: Probably ill be left with the huge amount of people who will get this expansion and play it.

the last time I’ve heard “you should leave” was when Wildstar was being heavily defended. And look where it ended up when people did instead of complaining just got up and left.

Actually it was very nice when this happened. Zero negative impact as far as I could see.

Mirta.5029:

MirrorOfNature.4279:

To answer Mirta’s question: Probably ill be left with the huge amount of people who will get this expansion and play it.

the last time I’ve heard “you should leave” was when Wildstar was being heavily defended. And look where it ended up when people did instead of complaining just got up and left.

You’re making the assumption people will leave because a stranger on the Internet told them to. If they do, they’d probably have left anyway.

But you know, I think that the expansion is probably a bit pricey for what we’re getitng at launch but I anticipate we’ll be getting a lot more than we get at launch anyway included in that price.

For me, the expansion is worth it, because Guild Wars 2 is worth $50 to me, where as a WoW expansion isn’t worth $10. lol

Mirta.5029:

MirrorOfNature.4279:

To answer Mirta’s question: Probably ill be left with the huge amount of people who will get this expansion and play it.

the last time I’ve heard “you should leave” was when Wildstar was being heavily defended. And look where it ended up when people did instead of complaining just got up and left.

You’re just going into circles, mate. Again and again and again, ignoring all my arguments. What I had to say, I said it. I put my thoughts and points, why I think the expansion is worth it, and you just ignored all of it, without coming up with any single point why the expansion, isnt worth it, besides because you think it isn’t worth it. You didn’t put anything constructive into your posts, on what do you think the expansion lacks or what more it needs. You know to actually try and help Anet gather players impressions. All im seeing is one big crying baby, and post after post of whining. I will leave you now with your bitterness, while I go and enjoy the game.

Vayne.8563:

For me, the expansion is worth it, because Guild Wars 2 is worth $50 to me, where as a WoW expansion isn’t worth $10. lol

At the end of the day, this is what it comes down to. You buy the season pass for however long HoT is the new thing if you like the game and want it to be your MMO of choice. If you’ve got other games on tap, and/or are iffy about GW2, the price is more of an issue. As has been said many times, the price will come down sooner or later, but it’s likely you’d want to buy the story installments if you care about them — so the price reduction may not in fact be one. If all you want is the Elite Specs, Halls, raids and/or Rev, then wait — unless you want to be in on the ground floor. Premium access usually costs extra.

I think games journalists clearly need to work harder so that their audiences know what their terms mean – they are walking away with just incorrect definitions.

DLC – this is downloadable content (which most things are literally but its not used to describe just “stuff I download”), used by journalists to describe negatively things that were cut out of the sold game to sell to you later. HoT clearly does not fit this description – unless you believe all the things in HoT were actually constructed 3 years ago and they forgot about it…

Season Pass – this has a defined time limit or content limit that is given out before you purchase it. GW2 HoT will give you ALL content until the next expansion which has not been announced and so there is not predefined limit of content or “season length.”

Guys I know you like to watch the jimquisition and he is super entertaining and does a lot for showing up bad practices but you need to not just learn some buzzwords that mean ‘something negative’ and stick them to anything you don’t understand. Hopefully journalists will try harder to educate and not just whip up frenzies (but since we’ve all seen media through our lives we know that won’t be the target for very many – this is not an attack on Jim I just chose him earlier as a random journalist I watch, is popular and know uses terms above, correctly I might add).

People in this thread need to learn what they are saying BEFORE they let it drip onto the page.

Coulter.2315:

I think games journalists clearly need to work harder so that their audiences know what their terms mean – they are walking away with just incorrect definitions.

DLC – this is downloadable content (which most things are literally but its not used to describe just “stuff I download”), used by journalists to describe negatively things that were cut out of the sold game to sell to you later. HoT clearly does not fit this description – unless you believe all the things in HoT were actually constructed 3 years ago and they forgot about it…

Season Pass – this has a defined time limit or content limit that is given out before you purchase it. GW2 HoT will give you ALL content until the next expansion which has not been announced and so there is not predefined limit of content or “season length.”

Guys I know you like to watch the jimquisition and he is super entertaining and does a lot for showing up bad practices but you need to not just learn some buzzwords that mean ‘something negative’ and stick them to anything you don’t understand. Hopefully journalists will try harder to educate and not just whip up frenzies (but since we’ve all seen media through our lives we know that won’t be the target for very many – this is not an attack on Jim I just chose him earlier as a random journalist I watch, is popular and know uses terms above, correctly I might add).

People in this thread need to learn what they are saying BEFORE they let it drip onto the page.

you’re turning the terms negative yourself.

A downloadable only expansion is still a DLC. So is a set of hats. The point that it was “cut out from the game”, that one you added yourself. So yes, HoT is a DLC. But Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion Shivering Isles, quite a big expansion mind you, was also counted as DLC.

Seasons pass literally means getting all the content for a certain specified amount of time. Buying HoT is buying a season’s pass with certain extra terms (like logging in).

Mirta.5029:

Coulter.2315:

I think games journalists clearly need to work harder so that their audiences know what their terms mean – they are walking away with just incorrect definitions.

DLC – this is downloadable content (which most things are literally but its not used to describe just “stuff I download”), used by journalists to describe negatively things that were cut out of the sold game to sell to you later. HoT clearly does not fit this description – unless you believe all the things in HoT were actually constructed 3 years ago and they forgot about it…

Season Pass – this has a defined time limit or content limit that is given out before you purchase it. GW2 HoT will give you ALL content until the next expansion which has not been announced and so there is not predefined limit of content or “season length.”

Guys I know you like to watch the jimquisition and he is super entertaining and does a lot for showing up bad practices but you need to not just learn some buzzwords that mean ‘something negative’ and stick them to anything you don’t understand. Hopefully journalists will try harder to educate and not just whip up frenzies (but since we’ve all seen media through our lives we know that won’t be the target for very many – this is not an attack on Jim I just chose him earlier as a random journalist I watch, is popular and know uses terms above, correctly I might add).

People in this thread need to learn what they are saying BEFORE they let it drip onto the page.

you’re turning the terms negative yourself.

A downloadable only expansion is still a DLC. So is a set of hats. The point that it was “cut out from the game”, that one you added yourself. So yes, HoT is a DLC. But Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion Shivering Isles, quite a big expansion mind you, was also counted as DLC.

Seasons pass literally means getting all the content for a certain specified amount of time. Buying HoT is buying a season’s pass with certain extra terms (like logging in).

So when Sim says “make us buy the scammy dlc.” what does your reading comprehension think he means? That ‘dlc’ is a negative? You can’t willfully ignore people’s inference…

Seasons require a limit, they are not indefinite. For example “Buy the Alien: Isolation Season Pass and get five add on packs to download.”

Defending ignorant use of buzzwords does not impress.

Coulter.2315:

So when Sim says “make us buy the scammy dlc.” what does your reading comprehension think he means? That ‘dlc’ is a negative? You can’t willfully ignore people’s inference…

Seasons require a limit, they are not indefinite. For example “Buy the Alien: Isolation Season Pass and get five add on packs to download.”

Defending ignorant use of buzzwords does not impress.

scammy is the negative word, not DLC.

DLC is literally any content that is downloaded in digital form, and not released in a physical one. Expansions included.

HoT promises you access to all the updates up until next expansion. Do you want to invent new terms and call it expansion’s pass?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_ticket#Other_uses

“It can also refer to a special purchase available for certain video games, which typically allows the owner access to some or all future DLC for the game for a one-time fee. Access to each DLC becomes available as it is released. Some Season Passes have unique names, such as the “Rockstar Pass” for L.A. Noire (2011) and Max Payne 3 (2012)."

you don’t need to define a time frame for it to be called a season’s pass. HoT is literally a season’s pass until the next expansion. That could be in a year, or 3 years from now.

Mirta.5029:

Coulter.2315:

So when Sim says “make us buy the scammy dlc.” what does your reading comprehension think he means? That ‘dlc’ is a negative? You can’t willfully ignore people’s inference…

Seasons require a limit, they are not indefinite. For example “Buy the Alien: Isolation Season Pass and get five add on packs to download.”

Defending ignorant use of buzzwords does not impress.

scammy is the negative word, not DLC.

DLC is literally any content that is downloaded in digital form, and not released in a physical one. Expansions included.

HoT promises you access to all the updates up until next expansion. Do you want to invent new terms and call it expansion’s pass?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_ticket#Other_uses

“It can also refer to a special purchase available for certain video games, which typically allows the owner access to some or all future DLC for the game for a one-time fee. Access to each DLC becomes available as it is released. Some Season Passes have unique names, such as the “Rockstar Pass” for L.A. Noire (2011) and Max Payne 3 (2012)."

you don’t need to define a time frame for it to be called a season’s pass. HoT is literally a season’s pass until the next expansion. That could be in a year, or 3 years from now.

If we use your definitions the words are MEANINGLESS.

Example : Any single player game available online with no additions ever. It is DLC and is a Season Pass. The words are MEANINGLESS – but they are used in reality because they have more niche definitions… Are you saying people are just using words with no meaning?

I have come to notice that new players will be spending only $60 for the entire game and HoT, while original players who have been supporting the community from the beginning will have to pay an additional $60, on top of the $60 they’ve already spent, to obtain the expansion alone. What do we get in return for our loyalty, not to mention our original $60? I suggest Anet get on top of this, since the costume they gave us is hardly a satisfying compensation.

An additional character slot.

Bought this game 1 yeas or so ago and i think its a little bit to harsh for veterans to pay full cost of the game when we already haw the game.
Discuss !

It shouldn’t.

We’ve had this discussion countless times the past few months. You can look up threads on reddit/forums, etc. by using the search function.

Its been discussed to death (your to late to the party) and this thread will be merged with

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged

The core game is FREE do you understand the word FREE it means you pay nothing for the core game you pay the amount of money for HoT alone your not buying guild wars 2 again you are just buying Heart of Thorns.

I laugh at your one year. They have to make money, then they make games.

In that order.

We are only owed a quality game.

This has been discussed to death, you got a year playing the game for your money (most veterans got even more) – type /age and divide what you payed by that number. I’m sure you got value for money.

For 10 years all Guild Wars products have been worth the money and quality, I hope HoT continues this trend.

I like how the OP makes an already conversed opinion and then just says ‘Discuss!’

Nice try though, 2/10.