Guild Wars 2

eisberg.2379:

Got to put in some context of what a “whale” is though. A “Whale” doesn’t spend as much as you might think. Over the years of reading various professional articles based on studies and interviews with professionals in the industry, “whales” are anybody who spends more than the average spender does. The average spender spends about $40-$50 a year, so anybody who spends more than $50 a year would be considered as a ’Whale". So yeah, you can be considered as a “whale” when you are actually spending a lot less than a subscription game.

It’s all relative. GW2 doesn’t have a subscription and can’t be directly compared to games with a subscription. It can, however, be compared to itself at the very least. After three years the core game has purchase value of about $20 per year for people that bought it right way. Basically, anybody who spends more than that is better for the company’s revenue. Some people do also spend thousands of dollars, so I guess whales just come in all shapes and sizes

I don´t have that much money and I wonder if HoT is worth it. For me HoT is to expensive for an addon. Maybe I don´t know enough about the the size of the content. I have a positive bias toward content of Cantha/Factions. If HoT would play in Cantha I would have preordered despite the costs . Mabe I start playing GW2 drunk to extend the fun.

eisberg.2379:

Got to put in some context of what a “whale” is though. A “Whale” doesn’t spend as much as you might think. Over the years of reading various professional articles based on studies and interviews with professionals in the industry, “whales” are anybody who spends more than the average spender does. The average spender spends about $40-$50 a year, so anybody who spends more than $50 a year would be considered as a ’Whale". So yeah, you can be considered as a “whale” when you are actually spending a lot less than a subscription game.

I assume the concept of “Whale” refers average spender in that specific enviroment. Otherwise it wouldn’t make sense at all. Otherwise, yes you can be considered a “whale” even if you spend less than if playing a subscription game, but it doesn’t changes that you’re still paying more than many of the other players.

eisberg.2379:

Another thing that makes no sense. When the game drops in price by $50, nobody complains that a new player can get the game for $50 less than they did, but when the game drops in price by $60, a mere $10 difference, so man people lose their minds over that. They feel “cheated” because of measly $10.

The price of the Core Game didn’t went down by measly $10. It went down from $60 to $0. ANet made pretty clear that they’re selling the expansion pack and gifting the core game with it, they require the older player to play the full price of their expansion to have access to a very minuscule part of the new content, while the new player access to the larger part PLUS the expansion for the same price.

The reasoning “You paid $60 for 3 years of gameplay” is completely irrelevant, the complain over feeling cheated is not much about “We were promised a free game without having to pay for other expansions” (Even if it’s a pretty reasonable one.), but about “They want us to pay too much for too little in comparison to what new players will get.”. Thus the feeling of being “cheated”.

It’s not measly $10, even if personally I think money is never measly it always holds value and even the smaller change should be considered important, it’s much more than that and it has to do with the insult of seeing a letter where they ask us to pre-order the game despite the unfair treatment.

Heylel.2109:

eisberg.2379:

Got to put in some context of what a “whale” is though. A “Whale” doesn’t spend as much as you might think. Over the years of reading various professional articles based on studies and interviews with professionals in the industry, “whales” are anybody who spends more than the average spender does. The average spender spends about $40-$50 a year, so anybody who spends more than $50 a year would be considered as a ’Whale". So yeah, you can be considered as a “whale” when you are actually spending a lot less than a subscription game.

I assume the concept of “Whale” refers average spender in that specific enviroment. Otherwise it wouldn’t make sense at all. Otherwise, yes you can be considered a “whale” even if you spend less than if playing a subscription game, but it doesn’t changes that you’re still paying more than many of the other players.

eisberg.2379:

Another thing that makes no sense. When the game drops in price by $50, nobody complains that a new player can get the game for $50 less than they did, but when the game drops in price by $60, a mere $10 difference, so man people lose their minds over that. They feel “cheated” because of measly $10.

The price of the Core Game didn’t went down by measly $10. It went down from $60 to $0. ANet made pretty clear that they’re selling the expansion pack and gifting the core game with it, they require the older player to play the full price of their expansion to have access to a very minuscule part of the new content, while the new player access to the larger part PLUS the expansion for the same price.

The reasoning “You paid $60 for 3 years of gameplay” is completely irrelevant, the complain over feeling cheated is not much about “We were promised a free game without having to pay for other expansions” (Even if it’s a pretty reasonable one.), but about “They want us to pay too much for too little in comparison to what new players will get.”. Thus the feeling of being “cheated”.

It’s not measly $10, even if personally I think money is never measly it always holds value and even the smaller change should be considered important, it’s much more than that and it has to do with the insult of seeing a letter where they ask us to pre-order the game despite the unfair treatment.

The game sold for $10 in March and May. An unknown number of new people bought these $10 accounts. Why didn’t people complain about these new people getting the game for $50 less at that time?

The price model for HoT was not yet known. There was nothing at stake.

You people make absolutely no GD sense .. You know that …
You all do realize for the past O I donno 10+ yrs wow and other games like it have been selling there xpacks for $60… And even more if you want the CE !!!
And those games where paid subs! Rofl .. So along with paying monthly .. You also had to pay for the xpacks.. If you wanted to keep up with the story and content.

Here you guys are complaining about a game that has been F* FREE!!! For the past 3 yrs
Do the math 15$ x 36 months = $530 bucks you all just saved by playing GW2..
And your complaining about $50!?

This thread has to be the most WTF thread I have ever read..
I personally havnt played GW2 since launch .. I just got back into playing .. Coming from 5+ yrs of wow and FFxiv I have ABSOLUTELY no issue with 50 bucks for an xpac.

You all seriously need to grow up .. Or get better jobs.. Or not be into the MMo genre.. These games cost money.. They arnt single player games..
Course now a days single player have DLC ..

The Devs have families and a life to you know .. What did you all want a 10$ xpac..
And don’t go shooting off by saying well.. gw2 has a cash shop .. they get plenty bla bla bla ..
Ya and so does WoW.. Swtor.. FFxiv and every other ficken MMO out there sub and non sub .. They still charge 50-60 bucks for an xpac lol
The only mmos that don’t charge that for xpacs are the ones that are normally crap .. Or very old.

Like I said .. Grow up guys .. The core game being included or not .. $50 for an xpac is a perfectly normal price range IMO

/2 cents

phys.7689:

Devata.6589:

dane.4638:

Im not going to continue to argue the logic behind paying the same price just for expansion as others pay for the whole game. This only makes people who obviously support this decision attempt to insult my intelligence which I am not interested in. As Gale said, I will just not buy HoT which probably means my time here is pretty much expired. I had no idea I was buying a time gated game when I bought GW2 but I have been wrong before.

I understand now after reading the arguments that buying this game entitles you to about 3 years of fun according to some people (Including Anet) That is fine, but I cant afford to upgrade me and my familys accounts at this price and dont agree that I should have to. Im sure that many in my guild will pay though as we were founded during beta and have spent a lot of time and effort building to this point. If they do, they will probably be playing HoT content which leaves me with no guild to play with so I guess my days are over. I will miss this game however so I will say good job on making 2 great games that have filled my free time for 10 years Anet!

With all due respect, but this game has been initial sold as being B2P, then you should have expected this.. in fact you should have expected the first €50,- expansion as soon as a year after release (also see GW1), and the next one a year later and now it would have been the 3th. However they went the cash-shop way meaning they did try you to convince buying in-game items instead of expansions.

It is not really time-gated but to already have the latest stuff you will need to always buy the latest expansion.. what I personally find better than having fun items being moved to a cash-shop.

I have no problems with paying money, but I want to pay for a good product, not pay less, or nothing for a product and then have a lesser product for it because they try to earn the money in other ways. As long as they now start behaving as a B2P game all is fine.

actually its definately time gated, im not saying thats good or bad, but the model is definately set up in a different manner than buy 2 play.

buy 2 play involves a separation of concerns that gw2 will not have. Gw1 was buy to play. Prophecies was seperate from factions seperate from nightfall, even eye of the north was fairly self contained.

Gw2 new model is a time gating more than buy 2 play.
What is going on depends on time.
old game = free to play
new game = exclusive access to new stuff
wait long enough, new games cycles to old game.

What you are buying now is exclusive access to things until the next expansion.

also there isnt that separation.
fractals are effected by buying the new content
precursor quest is based on the old content, but its locked to the new game. Core masteries are based on old content, but locked in new game.

the business model is basically a free to play with timed exclusivities.
Not that thats a horrible thing, but it has its own ups and downs.
The biggest unknowns now, is how they will develop/release content under this new plan, how long between purchases, and how much content with expansion.
Right now, it seems like content for new expansion is low (to me)
time between content is unknown.

I think they themselves arent sure yet exactly how this will effect their development strategies and execution.

anet is a bit ADD, they love to try new things, on the flip side, they dont usually move forward/refine a lot because they constantly change direction. I would be surprised if this whole model they set up ends up changing before the next “expansion” (air quotes because they will probably change their plan) hits.

I don’t think there has to be a separation for it to be B2P.. B2P basically mean you buy the content to use / play it. Is does not matter that that content is an addition to an already existing platform.

“What you are buying now is exclusive access to things until the next expansion.”
We don’t know that. When we get the next expansion (hopefully in 1 / 1,5 year form now) will HoT become F2P, yes they you are right and it is basically a F2P time-gated game that lets you buy out of that time-gate.. or will the same core (not including HoT) stay F2P but do you need to then buy the latest expansion. If that is the case it’s just B2P imho… Well if they behave as B2P, if at the same time they keep using th gem-store as they do it’s more a cash-shop game.

I would think and hope they will always keep this same core free but don’t add the expansions to it when a new one gets released, else you get a huge group lagging behind just to play for free, meaning Anet will try to earn money from them with the cash-shop doing exactly what mike said they would not do.. He clearly said they wanted to earn money from them buy selling them the expansion they would want to buy.

I don’t mind the price. I do mind that I am able to purchase for myself but I am not able to purchase a second copy for my wife. The payment authorization fail shows up every time and the support is not responding to my ticket. It used to be one day reply from customer support.

It’s actually come to the point for me where the price is not the biggest sticking point. Though I think their convenient F2P conversion is schizophrenic and too cute by half (it functions as an acknowledgment that their original pricing structure was kittened-up and a middle finger to the people to pointed that out).

The biggest issue for me is that I just think ANET is a company with very few and very poor ideas for where this game is going…looking at you Berzerker spec!

lukejoe.1592:

The biggest issue for me is that I just think ANET is a company with very few and very poor ideas for where this game is going…looking at you Berzerker spec!

The business model is poor too, for example if they made the expansion 25 a 30 euro’s there would have been less/no qq and the sales would have been high. Now 60% of players is “mad” and probably about 20% is moving on to another game and 20% blindly pre-ordered. I remember not long ago ANet saying, that if they ever did expansion for GW2 at all, it would be priced somewhere along the 10$ range.

I was stoked about HoT, but I’m going to hold off and wait for a sale.
If that sale is not comming within a week or two after HoT release its time to move on to another game!

To all those that says you been playing for 3 years what you complaining you have ridiculous advantage over new players blabablalb…

What if you are someone like me, playing game for few months now and then, would say I had around 100 hours of gametime. I decided to come back to game and what I see? They want to charge me another 50 bucks so I can get expansion that new players who are behind me like 30 lvls will get including with base game. Sorry but that’s ridiculous.

Umiliato.6049:

lukejoe.1592:

The biggest issue for me is that I just think ANET is a company with very few and very poor ideas for where this game is going…looking at you Berzerker spec!

The business model is poor too, for example if they made the expansion 25 a 30 euro’s there would have been less/no qq and the sales would have been high. Now 60% of players is “mad” and probably about 20% is moving on to another game and 20% blindly pre-ordered. I remember not long ago ANet saying, that if they ever did expansion for GW2 at all, it would be priced somewhere along the 10$ range.

I was stoked about HoT, but I’m going to hold off and wait for a sale.
If that sale is not comming within a week or two after HoT release its time to move on to another game!

where do you get the stats of 60% and so on of 20% and such?

Razzier.9156:

To all those that says you been playing for 3 years what you complaining you have ridiculous advantage over new players blabablalb…

What if you are someone like me, playing game for few months now and then, would say I had around 100 hours of gametime. I decided to come back to game and what I see? They want to charge me another 50 bucks so I can get expansion that new players who are behind me like 30 lvls will get including with base game. Sorry but that’s ridiculous.

if you bought it before after January some time, you could have got a refund to upgrade with.

Healix.5819:

After the $10 sales, I figured this would happen. GW2 by itself is likely no longer sold, it’s simply included with HoT for free. You don’t have a choice.

So basically it is a big screw you to those of us who originally bought GW2 when it came out. They give it away for free and those who bought it get no form of compensation for the money they lined ArenaNet’s pockets with. Bad Business choice.

jim.1758:

Healix.5819:

After the $10 sales, I figured this would happen. GW2 by itself is likely no longer sold, it’s simply included with HoT for free. You don’t have a choice.

So basically it is a big screw you to those of us who originally bought GW2 when it came out. They give it away for free and those who bought it get no form of compensation for the money they lined ArenaNet’s pockets with. Bad Business choice.

what did you want for the hours upon hours of day of no restriction and freeish play?

jim.1758:

Healix.5819:

After the $10 sales, I figured this would happen. GW2 by itself is likely no longer sold, it’s simply included with HoT for free. You don’t have a choice.

So basically it is a big screw you to those of us who originally bought GW2 when it came out. They give it away for free and those who bought it get no form of compensation for the money they lined ArenaNet’s pockets with. Bad Business choice.

The 3 years of free play and the 40 free updates are worthless?

TJgalon.5012:

jim.1758:

Healix.5819:

After the $10 sales, I figured this would happen. GW2 by itself is likely no longer sold, it’s simply included with HoT for free. You don’t have a choice.

So basically it is a big screw you to those of us who originally bought GW2 when it came out. They give it away for free and those who bought it get no form of compensation for the money they lined ArenaNet’s pockets with. Bad Business choice.

what did you want for the hours upon hours of day of no restriction and freeish play?

Well I for one would expect ANet to extend a reasonable price for those of us who already own the original game instead of committing fraud. The expansion is only worth $10-$15 tops and they are charging the same price for the expansion with the core game. So in general if you already had the core game they should give you the expansion free instead of double charging you.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

jim.1758:

Healix.5819:

After the $10 sales, I figured this would happen. GW2 by itself is likely no longer sold, it’s simply included with HoT for free. You don’t have a choice.

So basically it is a big screw you to those of us who originally bought GW2 when it came out. They give it away for free and those who bought it get no form of compensation for the money they lined ArenaNet’s pockets with. Bad Business choice.

The 3 years of free play and the 40 free updates are worthless?

Paying 60 bucks at start is not entirely free to play don’t you think? And that’s not what bothers me. What bothers me I bought base game and have character around lvl 30. That’s like what? 2 days of work? Now anet wants to charge me another 50 bucks for expansion and base game again. Does that sound fair to you?

What i want from ANet is make possibility to buy expansion and base game separate not only in pack and charge them appropriate.

starbuck.8736:

TJgalon.5012:

jim.1758:

Healix.5819:

After the $10 sales, I figured this would happen. GW2 by itself is likely no longer sold, it’s simply included with HoT for free. You don’t have a choice.

So basically it is a big screw you to those of us who originally bought GW2 when it came out. They give it away for free and those who bought it get no form of compensation for the money they lined ArenaNet’s pockets with. Bad Business choice.

what did you want for the hours upon hours of day of no restriction and freeish play?

Well I for one would expect ANet to extend a reasonable price for those of us who already own the original game instead of committing fraud. The expansion is only worth $10-$15 tops and they are charging the same price for the expansion with the core game. So in general if you already had the core game they should give you the expansion free instead of double charging you.

First of all, look up fraud, cause I think it means something other then what you think. 2nd, HoT is coming with a lot of content, that so far, most we know, some not yet, and in future updates just like core gw2 of the past. 3rd, no one forcing you to buy the expansion if you do not want it. You can continue to play like normal with no changes.

Razzier.9156:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

jim.1758:

Healix.5819:

After the $10 sales, I figured this would happen. GW2 by itself is likely no longer sold, it’s simply included with HoT for free. You don’t have a choice.

So basically it is a big screw you to those of us who originally bought GW2 when it came out. They give it away for free and those who bought it get no form of compensation for the money they lined ArenaNet’s pockets with. Bad Business choice.

The 3 years of free play and the 40 free updates are worthless?

Paying 60 bucks at start is not entirely free to play don’t you think? And that’s not what bothers me. What bothers me I bought base game and have character around lvl 30. That’s like what? 2 days of work? Now anet wants to charge me another 50 bucks for expansion and base game again. Does that sound fair to you?

A fair price is what the customer will pay, nothing more. If it’s not fair to you, don’t buy it. But don’t expect ANet to price their work by what you paid 3 years ago or how much you played in those 3 years.

The core game is no longer what they are selling. They are selling a new product and they have determined the best pricing structure is to bundle the core and expansion together with new people getting the core for free. If they charged the new people for both, it’s too high a paywall and their profits will be significantly less. The odds that new people will flock to the expansion of a 3 year old game where they have missed all the updates and special events and skins and pay $110 for it is low. Very low.

All games continuously lose players. It’s critical that they bring in new players. If they don’t, the game first stalls then fails. This game can not reasonably charge the new players $110 and expect to see more than a trickle. By charging only once, they lower the paywall, bring them in and the game is healthier because of it. Because the game is healthier and the profits are higher they can afford to make more content. And it’s that, that I think is fair.

Umiliato.6049:

lukejoe.1592:

The biggest issue for me is that I just think ANET is a company with very few and very poor ideas for where this game is going…looking at you Berzerker spec!

The business model is poor too, for example if they made the expansion 25 a 30 euro’s there would have been less/no qq and the sales would have been high. Now 60% of players is “mad” and probably about 20% is moving on to another game and 20% blindly pre-ordered. I remember not long ago ANet saying, that if they ever did expansion for GW2 at all, it would be priced somewhere along the 10$ range.

I was stoked about HoT, but I’m going to hold off and wait for a sale.
If that sale is not comming within a week or two after HoT release its time to move on to another game!

Actually, 99% of people are happy with HoT and its price, 1% are people who are upset and moving on to other games. See, I can make up statistics too.

Razzier.9156:

What i want from ANet is make possibility to buy expansion and base game separate not only in pack and charge them appropriate.

Tell you what, just deal with having just the Core game for now, and then in some unknown years, could be 10 years for all we know, you can buy the last expansion for the game and you will get all the expansions for 1 low price. But like I said, you may have to wait for up to 10 years to get that amazing deal. While the rest of us will continue to play the game, play the content as it is being released and is new which makes for better playing with the community, and not get bent out of shape over something so petty.

If you were not complaining about new players able to buy the game for $10 prior to F2P, then you are a hypocrite for not complaining about the game dropping in price by $50, but apparently it dropping by another $10 gets you bent out of shape.

Devata.6589:

I don’t think there has to be a separation for it to be B2P.. B2P basically mean you buy the content to use / play it. Is does not matter that that content is an addition to an already existing platform.

in order to access SWOTOR’s expansion content you need to buy it. However the game, just like this one now is, is classed as F2P.

eisberg.2379:

Got to put in some context of what a “whale” is though. A “Whale” doesn’t spend as much as you might think. Over the years of reading various professional articles based on studies and interviews with professionals in the industry, “whales” are anybody who spends more than the average spender does. The average spender spends about $40-$50 a year, so anybody who spends more than $50 a year would be considered as a ’Whale". So yeah, you can be considered as a “whale” when you are actually spending a lot less than a subscription game.

doesn’t really mean that there aren’t whales that spend more than a sub. When I was actively playing, I was spending 20£ a month on gem cards, while a sub to FFXIV is merely 9£ a month.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The 3 years of free play and the 40 free updates are worthless?

With Anet’s way of approaching things, how many of those you received depends solely on weather you had time to log in at that point.
S2 of Living Story is B2P if you missed it.
Majority of your regular updates went away and didn’t come back.

Razzier.9156:

What i want from ANet is make possibility to buy expansion and base game separate not only in pack and charge them appropriate.

I think that that’s what majority of us wants. If expansion pack was just 10$ cheaper (base game taken out), I don’t think that so many of us would be on the forums right now.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If you are unhappy with it and feel it’s fraudulent, then don’t buy. Find another game. There is no reason to stick around with a game that you feel is fraudulent.

that’s what a lot of people are doing I imagine. However the last time I’ve seen “don’t like it? Leave!” attitude was in Wildstar. And that one completely died because of it.

You shouldn’t believe that just because your game was a great success originally it’s immune to failure. So “go away!” should never be the answer.

eisberg.2379:

Razzier.9156:

What i want from ANet is make possibility to buy expansion and base game separate not only in pack and charge them appropriate.

Tell you what, just deal with having just the Core game for now, and then in some unknown years, could be 10 years for all we know, you can buy the last expansion for the game and you will get all the expansions for 1 low price. But like I said, you may have to wait for up to 10 years to get that amazing deal. While the rest of us will continue to play the game, play the content as it is being released and is new which makes for better playing with the community, and not get bent out of shape over something so petty.

If you were not complaining about new players able to buy the game for $10 prior to F2P, then you are a hypocrite for not complaining about the game dropping in price by $50, but apparently it dropping by another $10 gets you bent out of shape.

Again wrong conclusion. I don’t care if game is free 2 play. I said ANet selling expansion and charging me base game again which I already bought is wrong.

Razzier.9156:

eisberg.2379:

Razzier.9156:

What i want from ANet is make possibility to buy expansion and base game separate not only in pack and charge them appropriate.

Tell you what, just deal with having just the Core game for now, and then in some unknown years, could be 10 years for all we know, you can buy the last expansion for the game and you will get all the expansions for 1 low price. But like I said, you may have to wait for up to 10 years to get that amazing deal. While the rest of us will continue to play the game, play the content as it is being released and is new which makes for better playing with the community, and not get bent out of shape over something so petty.

If you were not complaining about new players able to buy the game for $10 prior to F2P, then you are a hypocrite for not complaining about the game dropping in price by $50, but apparently it dropping by another $10 gets you bent out of shape.

Again wrong conclusion. I don’t care if game is free 2 play. I said ANet selling expansion and charging me base game again which I already bought is wrong.

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

Nightscar.5634:

I personally havnt played GW2 since launch .. I just got back into playing .. Coming from 5+ yrs of wow and FFxiv I have ABSOLUTELY no issue with 50 bucks for an xpac.

I like how this kind of people think their opinion has any credibility.

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

Mirta.5029:

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

The expansion is $50. The core game is not part of that cost. This has been stated by Anet numerous times and is visible on every page of this thread. It’s not difficult to understand. If they offered HoT without the FREE core game for NEW accounts, it would still be $50.

Ayrilana.1396:

Mirta.5029:

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

The expansion is $50. The core game is not part of that cost. This has been stated by Anet numerous times and is visible on every page of this thread. It’s not difficult to understand. If they offered HoT without the FREE core game for NEW accounts, it would still be $50.

How is not core part of that cost? Why does then Free account type even exist then? Why not just give everyone actual Core Guild Wars 2 for free and just charge for expansion?

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mirta.5029:

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

The expansion is $50. The core game is not part of that cost. This has been stated by Anet numerous times and is visible on every page of this thread. It’s not difficult to understand. If they offered HoT without the FREE core game for NEW accounts, it would still be $50.

How is not core part of that cost? Why does then Free account type even exist then? Why not just give everyone actual Core Guild Wars 2 for free and just charge for expansion?

For one, Anet says it is not. Also, just because a company offers something for free to new customers does not mean that the costs are being passed on to the customers. The free account exists to assist new players to get into the game rather than pay for bith the core game and the expansion. This has been stated numerous times by Anet and there’s even a blog post dedicated to it. There are many reasons why they are not giving it for free to everyone who buys the expansions.

Ayrilana.1396:

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mirta.5029:

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

The expansion is $50. The core game is not part of that cost. This has been stated by Anet numerous times and is visible on every page of this thread. It’s not difficult to understand. If they offered HoT without the FREE core game for NEW accounts, it would still be $50.

How is not core part of that cost? Why does then Free account type even exist then? Why not just give everyone actual Core Guild Wars 2 for free and just charge for expansion?

For one, Anet says it is not. Also, just because a company offers something for free to new customers does not mean that the costs are being passed on to the customers. The free account exists to assist new players to get into the game rather than pay for bith the core game and the expansion. This has been stated numerous times by Anet and there’s even a blog post dedicated to it. There are many reasons why they are not giving it for free to everyone who buys the expansions.

First you say core game is free then you say free account exist to get new players into game rather then pay for core game and expansion xD Get your fact straight, and what exactly does it mean new players? Define that because I would call myself new player since my character is low level and only small part of world is discovered but i payed for it 3 years ago.

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mirta.5029:

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

The expansion is $50. The core game is not part of that cost. This has been stated by Anet numerous times and is visible on every page of this thread. It’s not difficult to understand. If they offered HoT without the FREE core game for NEW accounts, it would still be $50.

How is not core part of that cost? Why does then Free account type even exist then? Why not just give everyone actual Core Guild Wars 2 for free and just charge for expansion?

For one, Anet says it is not. Also, just because a company offers something for free to new customers does not mean that the costs are being passed on to the customers. The free account exists to assist new players to get into the game rather than pay for bith the core game and the expansion. This has been stated numerous times by Anet and there’s even a blog post dedicated to it. There are many reasons why they are not giving it for free to everyone who buys the expansions.

First you say core game is free then you say free account exist to get new players into game rather then pay for core game and expansion xD Get your fact straight, and what exactly does it mean new players? Define that because I would call myself new player since my character is low level and only small part of world is discovered but i payed for it 3 years ago.

Well if it takes you that long to get through the game, then don’t buy the expansion and keep on playing core. By the time you would need to enter the expansion area, the expansion would most likely be cheaper anyways, most likely on frequent 50% or 75% sales from an already reduced price point.

But this doesn’t negate the fact that they have devalued core game to $0, and for every expansion in the future all content before it (Core and previous expansions) will be devalued to $0. I and any reasonable person already understood this concept, especially since the game prior to expansion was already devalued to $10, so when expansion is releasing, the game being devalued by another $10 was no big surprise at all.

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mirta.5029:

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

The expansion is $50. The core game is not part of that cost. This has been stated by Anet numerous times and is visible on every page of this thread. It’s not difficult to understand. If they offered HoT without the FREE core game for NEW accounts, it would still be $50.

How is not core part of that cost? Why does then Free account type even exist then? Why not just give everyone actual Core Guild Wars 2 for free and just charge for expansion?

For one, Anet says it is not. Also, just because a company offers something for free to new customers does not mean that the costs are being passed on to the customers. The free account exists to assist new players to get into the game rather than pay for bith the core game and the expansion. This has been stated numerous times by Anet and there’s even a blog post dedicated to it. There are many reasons why they are not giving it for free to everyone who buys the expansions.

First you say core game is free then you say free account exist to get new players into game rather then pay for core game and expansion xD Get your fact straight, and what exactly does it mean new players? Define that because I would call myself new player since my character is low level and only small part of world is discovered but i payed for it 3 years ago.

Facts are straight. You’re just new to all of this. Prior to last weekend’s announcement, the core game was free when applied to new accounts. It still is and you get full access when purchasing the expansion. With last weekend’s announcement, the core game is free to everyone with restrictions until they put have the expansion and apply is to that account. New players mean new accounts.

So before telling me to get my facts straight, perhaps you should research all of this first before making absurd claims. It’s evident that you do not know what has been going on since June.

Ayrilana.1396:

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mirta.5029:

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

The expansion is $50. The core game is not part of that cost. This has been stated by Anet numerous times and is visible on every page of this thread. It’s not difficult to understand. If they offered HoT without the FREE core game for NEW accounts, it would still be $50.

How is not core part of that cost? Why does then Free account type even exist then? Why not just give everyone actual Core Guild Wars 2 for free and just charge for expansion?

For one, Anet says it is not. Also, just because a company offers something for free to new customers does not mean that the costs are being passed on to the customers. The free account exists to assist new players to get into the game rather than pay for bith the core game and the expansion. This has been stated numerous times by Anet and there’s even a blog post dedicated to it. There are many reasons why they are not giving it for free to everyone who buys the expansions.

First you say core game is free then you say free account exist to get new players into game rather then pay for core game and expansion xD Get your fact straight, and what exactly does it mean new players? Define that because I would call myself new player since my character is low level and only small part of world is discovered but i payed for it 3 years ago.

Facts are straight. You’re just new to all of this. Prior to last weekend’s announcement, the core game was free when applied to new accounts. It still is and you get full access when purchasing the expansion. With last weekend’s announcement, the core game is free to everyone with restrictions until they put have the expansion and apply is to that account. New players mean new accounts.

So before telling me to get my facts straight, perhaps you should research all of this first before making absurd claims. It’s evident that you do not know what has been going on since June.

Okey so you saying that once was Free Account type is now changed into Core Guild Wars 2 Account type and if you upgrade you get expansion?

Or you saying Free Account type is NOT same as Core Guild Wars 2 Account because it has its restrictions regarding characters slots, chat,etc…. BUT If you buy expansion you will also get Core Guild Wars 2 Account because ANet is so awesome because you supported game for past 3 years and will remove restriction. While players who already have Core Guild Wars 2 Account won’t benefit anything except expansion because kitten logic right?

Enlighten me.

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mirta.5029:

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

The expansion is $50. The core game is not part of that cost. This has been stated by Anet numerous times and is visible on every page of this thread. It’s not difficult to understand. If they offered HoT without the FREE core game for NEW accounts, it would still be $50.

How is not core part of that cost? Why does then Free account type even exist then? Why not just give everyone actual Core Guild Wars 2 for free and just charge for expansion?

For one, Anet says it is not. Also, just because a company offers something for free to new customers does not mean that the costs are being passed on to the customers. The free account exists to assist new players to get into the game rather than pay for bith the core game and the expansion. This has been stated numerous times by Anet and there’s even a blog post dedicated to it. There are many reasons why they are not giving it for free to everyone who buys the expansions.

First you say core game is free then you say free account exist to get new players into game rather then pay for core game and expansion xD Get your fact straight, and what exactly does it mean new players? Define that because I would call myself new player since my character is low level and only small part of world is discovered but i payed for it 3 years ago.

Facts are straight. You’re just new to all of this. Prior to last weekend’s announcement, the core game was free when applied to new accounts. It still is and you get full access when purchasing the expansion. With last weekend’s announcement, the core game is free to everyone with restrictions until they put have the expansion and apply is to that account. New players mean new accounts.

So before telling me to get my facts straight, perhaps you should research all of this first before making absurd claims. It’s evident that you do not know what has been going on since June.

Okey so you saying that once was Free Account type is now changed into Core Guild Wars 2 Account type and if you upgrade you get expansion?

Or you saying Free Account type is NOT same as Core Guild Wars 2 Account because it has its restrictions regarding characters slots, chat,etc…. BUT If you buy expansion you will also get Core Guild Wars 2 Account because ANet is so awesome because you supported game for past 3 years and will remove restriction. While players who already have Core Guild Wars 2 Account won’t benefit anything except expansion because kitten logic right?

Enlighten me.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pre-purchase-community-address/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/play-for-free-today/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged/page/6#post5156129
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/new-business-model-equality/page/2#post5436673

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mirta.5029:

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

The expansion is $50. The core game is not part of that cost. This has been stated by Anet numerous times and is visible on every page of this thread. It’s not difficult to understand. If they offered HoT without the FREE core game for NEW accounts, it would still be $50.

How is not core part of that cost? Why does then Free account type even exist then? Why not just give everyone actual Core Guild Wars 2 for free and just charge for expansion?

For one, Anet says it is not. Also, just because a company offers something for free to new customers does not mean that the costs are being passed on to the customers. The free account exists to assist new players to get into the game rather than pay for bith the core game and the expansion. This has been stated numerous times by Anet and there’s even a blog post dedicated to it. There are many reasons why they are not giving it for free to everyone who buys the expansions.

First you say core game is free then you say free account exist to get new players into game rather then pay for core game and expansion xD Get your fact straight, and what exactly does it mean new players? Define that because I would call myself new player since my character is low level and only small part of world is discovered but i payed for it 3 years ago.

Facts are straight. You’re just new to all of this. Prior to last weekend’s announcement, the core game was free when applied to new accounts. It still is and you get full access when purchasing the expansion. With last weekend’s announcement, the core game is free to everyone with restrictions until they put have the expansion and apply is to that account. New players mean new accounts.

So before telling me to get my facts straight, perhaps you should research all of this first before making absurd claims. It’s evident that you do not know what has been going on since June.

Okey so you saying that once was Free Account type is now changed into Core Guild Wars 2 Account type and if you upgrade you get expansion?

Or you saying Free Account type is NOT same as Core Guild Wars 2 Account because it has its restrictions regarding characters slots, chat,etc…. BUT If you buy expansion you will also get Core Guild Wars 2 Account because ANet is so awesome because you supported game for past 3 years and will remove restriction. While players who already have Core Guild Wars 2 Account won’t benefit anything except expansion because kitten logic right?

Enlighten me.

Core game has been davalued to $0, HoT will be davalued to $0 when the next expansion releases, and that next expansion will be davalued to $0 when the expansion after that releases, and so on. Now a new type of version has been released, something that is even less than core, and that is F2P.

Razzier.9156:

If it had zero value they wouldn’t divide account types into 3 types.

The three different types they list is to simply to make easier for players to understand at a glance. There are two primary types of accounts now: free and paid. Paid accounts are unrestricted and have access to all base content up to and including the most recent paid for expansion.

HoT really doesn’t even include the core game for free anymore since it’s free for everyone. What HoT does for new players is simply upgrade the free account to a paid account.

Hello!
I’m excited with this new anouncement about free accounts and stuff, so now i can play with friends that could not afford the game itself.
But, i would like to know, why cant we, that had paid the game before, have heart of thorns for free?
I know that involves a lot of economic variables for NcSoft, ArenaNet and etc…
But, we have paid for the game before, and have to pay again for heart of thorns, while someone who is free to play will have all the benefits paying only once.
My opinion is that the previous community should have some benefity related to buying the new expansion, not only in game advantages that someday everyone will have.

Mirta.5029:

Devata.6589:

I don’t think there has to be a separation for it to be B2P.. B2P basically mean you buy the content to use / play it. Is does not matter that that content is an addition to an already existing platform.

in order to access SWOTOR’s expansion content you need to buy it. However the game, just like this one now is, is classed as F2P.

The model Anet has been using the last 2,5 years I would also define as F2P or cash-shop. Simply because they focused on the cash-shop for income, not on the game and expansions. That was also very noticeable with the best cosmetics in the store instead of in the game.

With HoT I hope they do what Mike said, and earn money by / focus on selling the game, so then it would become a B2P game again, we will see.

But that was not the discussion. phys said it could not be / become B2P because it was not a separate product on what I commented that that is not a requirement for it to be a B2P product.

Why doesn’t WoW give away its expansion to players that had to purchase the previous expansions as well as pay $15 a month to continue playing?

New players will never get the same experience. A whole year of content has been lost and new players have to pay extra for season 2. Back in the glory days, only veteran players will remember trading 1g for 400 gems. With the addition of login rewards, you’re basically given a monthly income, which has already surpassed the cost of HoT if you consider the monetary value of those rewards.

Moving forward, their model will make a lot more sense. Next expansion, people will get HoT for free, but they’re going to basically have to pay the price of HoT regardless to unlock the living story. For those that buy and actively play HoT, you’ll be able to unlock everything for free. If you don’t actively login however, or you pick up HoT late into its life, you will be getting a bad deal though.

I totally agree with ticos’s statement but I can suggest something else. If ArenaNet don’t want to give us the expansion for free then maybe they can offer us a discount or something when we decide to purchase Heath of Thorns. I know it’s not much but at the end of the day, we all bought the core game and now we have to buy the expansion when others can buy only the expansion and have benefits just like ours.

Mmmmmh there is a LotR Box for 10 € at these days….

But i paid much more for only The Fellowship Of The Ring when it comes out 2002.

not fair

Pls Warner Bros give me the Box for free!!! Cause i paid much more for only the first episode!!!!!

Altermixt.4730:

I totally agree with ticos’s statement but I can suggest something else. If ArenaNet don’t want to give us the expansion for free then maybe they can offer us a discount or something when we decide to purchase Heath of Thorns. I know it’s not much but at the end of the day, we all bought the core game and now we have to buy the expansion when others can buy only the expansion and have benefits just like ours.

If you buy the expansion before the launch you get a $10 discount. A free character slot. If that’s not good enough there was a thread on the forum a couple of months ago where people contacted Support and asked for and received 800 gems instead.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If you buy the expansion before the launch you get a $10 discount. A free character slot. If that’s not good enough there was a thread on the forum a couple of months ago where people contacted Support and asked for and received 800 gems instead.

thing is, I don’t need that character slot. I rather it was a flat 10$. Not gems. Not character slots.

Mirta.5029:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If you buy the expansion before the launch you get a $10 discount. A free character slot. If that’s not good enough there was a thread on the forum a couple of months ago where people contacted Support and asked for and received 800 gems instead.

thing is, I don’t need that character slot. I rather it was a flat 10$. Not gems. Not character slots.

Most stores only give store credit, not cash. That would be gems in this case. thats pretty standard business practice now.

eisberg.2379:

Umiliato.6049:

lukejoe.1592:

The biggest issue for me is that I just think ANET is a company with very few and very poor ideas for where this game is going…looking at you Berzerker spec!

The business model is poor too, for example if they made the expansion 25 a 30 euro’s there would have been less/no qq and the sales would have been high. Now 60% of players is “mad” and probably about 20% is moving on to another game and 20% blindly pre-ordered. I remember not long ago ANet saying, that if they ever did expansion for GW2 at all, it would be priced somewhere along the 10$ range.

I was stoked about HoT, but I’m going to hold off and wait for a sale.
If that sale is not comming within a week or two after HoT release its time to move on to another game!

Actually, 99% of people are happy with HoT and its price, 1% are people who are upset and moving on to other games. See, I can make up statistics too.

Where are you getting those figures from? Clearly not fact.

starbuck.8736:

eisberg.2379:

Umiliato.6049:

lukejoe.1592:

The biggest issue for me is that I just think ANET is a company with very few and very poor ideas for where this game is going…looking at you Berzerker spec!

The business model is poor too, for example if they made the expansion 25 a 30 euro’s there would have been less/no qq and the sales would have been high. Now 60% of players is “mad” and probably about 20% is moving on to another game and 20% blindly pre-ordered. I remember not long ago ANet saying, that if they ever did expansion for GW2 at all, it would be priced somewhere along the 10$ range.

I was stoked about HoT, but I’m going to hold off and wait for a sale.
If that sale is not comming within a week or two after HoT release its time to move on to another game!

Actually, 99% of people are happy with HoT and its price, 1% are people who are upset and moving on to other games. See, I can make up statistics too.

Where are you getting those figures from? Clearly not fact.

You clearly have reading comprehension problems. Which explains why you do not even know what Fraud is. Reading comprehension is a weak skill you have.

Ok, Waiting the next DLC, For a Free Hot copy !!

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Razzier.9156:

Ayrilana.1396:

Mirta.5029:

eisberg.2379:

They are not selling you the base game again. The expansion would be $50 with or without the base game. The base game has dropped in price to $0 value.

uh, no? That’s if you want a heavily restricted account. You still need to buy the base game if you want restrictions removed and HoT is bundled with the base game. All people are asking for is to be able to purchase HoT without the base bundled in.

The expansion is $50. The core game is not part of that cost. This has been stated by Anet numerous times and is visible on every page of this thread. It’s not difficult to understand. If they offered HoT without the FREE core game for NEW accounts, it would still be $50.

How is not core part of that cost? Why does then Free account type even exist then? Why not just give everyone actual Core Guild Wars 2 for free and just charge for expansion?

For one, Anet says it is not. Also, just because a company offers something for free to new customers does not mean that the costs are being passed on to the customers. The free account exists to assist new players to get into the game rather than pay for bith the core game and the expansion. This has been stated numerous times by Anet and there’s even a blog post dedicated to it. There are many reasons why they are not giving it for free to everyone who buys the expansions.

First you say core game is free then you say free account exist to get new players into game rather then pay for core game and expansion xD Get your fact straight, and what exactly does it mean new players? Define that because I would call myself new player since my character is low level and only small part of world is discovered but i payed for it 3 years ago.

Facts are straight. You’re just new to all of this. Prior to last weekend’s announcement, the core game was free when applied to new accounts. It still is and you get full access when purchasing the expansion. With last weekend’s announcement, the core game is free to everyone with restrictions until they put have the expansion and apply is to that account. New players mean new accounts.

So before telling me to get my facts straight, perhaps you should research all of this first before making absurd claims. It’s evident that you do not know what has been going on since June.

Okey so you saying that once was Free Account type is now changed into Core Guild Wars 2 Account type and if you upgrade you get expansion?

Or you saying Free Account type is NOT same as Core Guild Wars 2 Account because it has its restrictions regarding characters slots, chat,etc…. BUT If you buy expansion you will also get Core Guild Wars 2 Account because ANet is so awesome because you supported game for past 3 years and will remove restriction. While players who already have Core Guild Wars 2 Account won’t benefit anything except expansion because kitten logic right?

Enlighten me.

He means that he’s pretty miffed about having to buy a fifty dollar expansion, after probably paying 60 on launch date (like I), or 20 later on in GW2s life. The only benefit to this is he gets HoT. While… newer players are able to play for free (With some restrictions. A few of them aren’t bad, and the only real annoyance is the Inventory limit, and your effect on the economy.) And can buy the $50 dollar expansion and reap all of the benefits. Definitely getting your money’s worth.

And yes, I am aware those limits are to prevent players from abusing the F2P part of GW2 and break the game.

I don’t know his state of mind. But this felt like a slap to the face. I wouldn’t be so bothered by it if older players actually got some pretty awesome benefits out of it for loyalty to offset the price.

So… either a reduction in price for previously established accounts,OR exclusive privileges to player accounts older than a certain date.

I love Arena Net and their attention to detail and story. I love Guild Wars one and two. But for the love of god… this is the same garbage that happened in the crap game Destiny. Please do not do a repeat of this ArenaNet!

EDIT:

Because complaining without a solution is bad… here’s my thought.

If you are adamant about selling this to me at 50 dollars. I will buy it… if and only if… old players get a Mini pet that is some sort of awesome crossbreed between Cthulu, a Displacer Beast, and a Dragon.

I am not joking about this. I will actually buy it if I am guaranteed that. Because it means that our complaints are being monitored, and a weird eldritch flying noodle cat would be awesome.

I am not being sarcastic about this! I can’t be anymore honest. Put it in, fly me to the studio, and I will make it rain ones on the box.

how come the cheapest offer is 49.99 and includes core game. I have game already isn’t there a price for just the expansion? if so how much