Guild Wars 2

This always brings up a very interesting argument, mainly because it always puts people up in mainly 2 categories that might be able to be seen on a political stand point.

The people who are just happy that the newcomers have a chance like this, that A-Net would go to so much trouble to give a free example to people, these people might see the newcomers as the struggling once, might be self reflecting etc.

The people who see the new people as hoarders, people who have done nothing to gain the game, but just came in.

Personally very happy that Gw2 decided to do this, there are people out there which have seen the game and seem to love it, but not sure if their computer can take it, so decides simply not make a move, the economy might be low as it is without risking money out the window.

(I know that alot of people seem to think of this as a business move to gain a bigger population before the expansion gets released, but if it is, it simply does not seem like a good one, the idea of giving a f2p is a desperation move, A-Net clearly is not desperate, gem store is purely cosmetic and besides, If buying the game is the most “stable” income Gw2 have, then shaking that would not be so smart if business move, in other words, I cant see how giving a free game out would give more income than letting it be 10$ + expansion price and gem store of course for people would buy).

Again, an argument like this…….simply seems straight out subjective all around, every person will think differently, but seems like Gw2 is rooting for the little man.

You played the game for 3 years for just $60, thats pretty good value for money (thats barely 2 weekends out with friends). The F2P version will bring in many more players to strengthen all aspects of our game, its a brilliant thing for new players and I am very happy to have more people enjoying Tyria.

Veterans aren’t being cheated; 3 years of play, special events, free LS2, unrestricted access to features.

The thing is nothing is stopping you grabbing an extra account yourself if you want to enjoy some community run “permadeath” or “hardmode” leveling experiences such as the one Wooden Potatoes is working on. You have access to this offer too remember.

What I want to know is, where were all these posts claiming I was ripped off/cheated/conned/etc when the game went for sale at $10 seven months or so ago? Why weren’t you at least 83% as outraged that someone new paid $10 and you paid $60 back then?

I would pay 60€ just if they give us Mounts in HoT. They said no raids, no f2p no other things so why not mounts that will not move faster, just like that riding carpet or broom.

Heylel.2109:

RLD.7439:

As someone who was here from the very beginning I feel a cheated.

A FTP player can join the game for zero dollar investment, but has to purchase HoT to receive that content. Okay, no argument there until we look at how unfair this is to veterans.

Original GW2 was what $60 for standard? HoT is $49 for standard. So basically A FTP player can get everything for $49, yet veterans have to pay a total of roughly $110?

Seems to me veterans should be getting HoT for free. Correct my logic any way you see fit. I’d like to be enlightened.

I agree with you, wholeheartly, but lots of people will bring up the fact you had hours of fun with those $60 and thus you should be more than happy to shell another $50 for the game when others will get full content for much less. There is nothing much to say, Mods and Community managers only shows up to support the ones happily accepting this, NEVER showing a word of understanding for our concerns.

The only solution is to drop the game, spread the word, inform the others that ANet stops caring for you once they get your money in the bag and the only important customers for them are the potential new ones.

I’ll be voting with my wallet.

If the expansion was $30 for owners of the base game I may bite. But $50? I don’t think so.

Oh well, there are other games

Kal Spiro.9745:

Heylel.2109:

RLD.7439:

As someone who was here from the very beginning I feel a cheated.

A FTP player can join the game for zero dollar investment, but has to purchase HoT to receive that content. Okay, no argument there until we look at how unfair this is to veterans.

Original GW2 was what $60 for standard? HoT is $49 for standard. So basically A FTP player can get everything for $49, yet veterans have to pay a total of roughly $110?

Seems to me veterans should be getting HoT for free. Correct my logic any way you see fit. I’d like to be enlightened.

I agree with you, wholeheartly, but lots of people will bring up the fact you had hours of fun with those $60 and thus you should be more than happy to shell another $50 for the game when others will get full content for much less. There is nothing much to say, Mods and Community managers only shows up to support the ones happily accepting this, NEVER showing a word of understanding for our concerns.

The only solution is to drop the game, spread the word, inform the others that ANet stops caring for you once they get your money in the bag and the only important customers for them are the potential new ones.

You mean like every company ever? That’s how capitalism works? If it’s such a big deal to you, why didn’t you wait? Why did you jump at the chance to have it. Every game ever has worked this way. Would you expect to buy original WoW for $50? Of course not, that’s stupid.

Elite: Dangerous gives older players a whopping €12 discount on the expansion, it contains the Core Game, but if you already owned the game then you get the discount.

Planetary Annhilation Titans is even better: 66% discount if you own the original game.

There are the most recent ones, but it’s not unheard of Companies willing to give their customers a discount if they owned a previous version of their games which got upgraded\give out for free.

Don’t say “like every other company ever” if you’re unaware of these exceptions.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I want to know is, where were all these posts claiming I was ripped off/cheated/conned/etc when the game went for sale at $10 seven months or so ago? Why weren’t you at least 83% as outraged that someone new paid $10 and you paid $60 back then?

Because they still had to pay for the game and the exp. pack.

People like myself who have been here since Day 1 supporting ArenaNet had to put down 60$+ for the core game and now another 60$+ for HoT (I paid 100$) while people just playing today pay 60$ and get all the same content I get for less than half the price.

I personally don’t care, but I’m guessing that’s the argument.

“Why are they equal to us when we’ve been here longer and paid more money?”

I disagre.
My 3yrs old account, with 11 characters, ascended items, legendaries, one time unique items and experiences is a lot more worth(monetary and sentimental) than a person join now will ever have.
By the time they catch up with us vets we will be far ahead on HoT content.
So no, i got my moneys worth so far and if the “challenging group content” and new fractal levels is to my liking then i will be glad to invest more money to continue on this jorney.

I think ‘cheated’ is a strong word, I do admit feeling a bit undervalued as a veteran player though.

Especially with the ‘veteran’ outfit. I didn’t agree with the outfit changes when they made them, don’t agree with them now. The outfit system has resulted in lower and lower quality visuals and play from the gemstore content. Getting an outfit for supporting ANet for three years is like having my opinion thrown in my face as a ‘reward’.

Azumi.9572:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I want to know is, where were all these posts claiming I was ripped off/cheated/conned/etc when the game went for sale at $10 seven months or so ago? Why weren’t you at least 83% as outraged that someone new paid $10 and you paid $60 back then?

Because they still had to pay for the game and the exp. pack.

People like myself who have been here since Day 1 supporting ArenaNet had to put down 60$+ for the core game and now another 60$+ for HoT (I paid 100$) while people just playing today pay 60$ and get all the same content I get for less than half the price.

I personally don’t care, but I’m guessing that’s the argument.

“Why are they equal to us when we’ve been here longer and paid more money?”

They do not get all the same content you got.. How many times do people have to point this out to people on these forums..

I’m starting to think people have killed way too many brain cells over their time to even think of saying something like this.

Coulter.2315:

You played the game for 3 years for just $60, thats pretty good value for money (thats barely 2 weekends out with friends). The F2P version will bring in many more players to strengthen all aspects of our game, its a brilliant thing for new players and I am very happy to have more people enjoying Tyria.

Veterans aren’t being cheated; 3 years of play, special events, free LS2, unrestricted access to features.

The thing is nothing is stopping you grabbing an extra account yourself if you want to enjoy some community run “permadeath” or “hardmode” leveling experiences such as the one Wooden Potatoes is working on. You have access to this offer too remember.

$60 lasts two full weekends? Must be living in the midwest, in bigger cities that will last you like 1 night at best.

Its like what I always told people when they act surprised I paid a whole $15/month for mmo subs, if you do the math out even for 20 hrs/wk it comes out to under 25 cents/hour, which is basically cheapest hobby you can get (minus laying in the grass watching the clouds go by)

If youre a “vet” and played 3 years then your $60 comes out to like $1.50 a month which is literally a whole two cents per hour. And there are still hundreds of people complaining they didnt get enough value out of it. Go figure…

Azumi.9572:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I want to know is, where were all these posts claiming I was ripped off/cheated/conned/etc when the game went for sale at $10 seven months or so ago? Why weren’t you at least 83% as outraged that someone new paid $10 and you paid $60 back then?

Because they still had to pay for the game and the exp. pack.

People like myself who have been here since Day 1 supporting ArenaNet had to put down 60$+ for the core game and now another 60$+ for HoT (I paid 100$) while people just playing today pay 60$ and get all the same content I get for less than half the price.

I personally don’t care, but I’m guessing that’s the argument.

“Why are they equal to us when we’ve been here longer and paid more money?”

The new people paid $10 for the core then $50 for the expansion while vets paid $60 and $50. So why didn’t the vets rage against them getting it for $50 cheaper? Unless that made them angry, their argument makes no sense.

Should someone who buys a product have rights to equity assumed by the change of that product’s price later on as sold to others?

This is what this boils down to.
I bought X 3 years ago for $60. The guy who made X now makes addon Y for X for $45. X is now free with the option to add Y for $45 so that the guy who made X can sell Y easier. Should I have rights to the price difference between X and Y because X is now free?

To assume I should is incredibly greedy. I already got 3 years worth of value out of X. That value was bought and paid for. Now I’m paying for addon Y to X so i can get more value out of X. Someone else may get X for free but I still got more value over the time I had X. I got my time out of X. I shouldn’t care about others getting it for free. Now I’m adding Y to X and I’ll get more use out of it. Y’s value is its own.

briggah.7910:

Azumi.9572:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I want to know is, where were all these posts claiming I was ripped off/cheated/conned/etc when the game went for sale at $10 seven months or so ago? Why weren’t you at least 83% as outraged that someone new paid $10 and you paid $60 back then?

Because they still had to pay for the game and the exp. pack.

People like myself who have been here since Day 1 supporting ArenaNet had to put down 60$+ for the core game and now another 60$+ for HoT (I paid 100$) while people just playing today pay 60$ and get all the same content I get for less than half the price.

I personally don’t care, but I’m guessing that’s the argument.

“Why are they equal to us when we’ve been here longer and paid more money?”

They do not get all the same content you got.. How many times do people have to point this out to people on these forums..

I’m starting to think people have killed way too many brain cells over there time to even think of saying something like this.

And I think fanboys need to stop being so emotionally involved with this game, they attack like rabid flesh eating dogs when someone points anything slightly negative about it.

It’s cool when you act like that when it’s about your Mother – when it’s about a game, you just look ridiculous.

I’m sorry the outrage from the Vets on the game going free is kittened.

Did everyone forget about the basic concept of depreciation over time? That car you’ve been driving for 3 years won’t be at the same value to you when you first bought it. Games depreciate in price over time. Same rule. After years pass they can be purchased for much less money because they. are. old.

It sickens me to how entitled everyone is now days. Guild wars 2 gets you 3 years of content, not to mention 40 releases and a whole Living Story season that new players cannot experience. AND they still have to pay gems to play Season 2 should they choose. You’ve had to pay one fee for a game that has given you and lasted 3 years without requiring a dime and you forget this is what happens to all products in the world. Would you rather pay 15$ a month? That’s 5 months and you’re passed the purchase price of the original game when it came out. People please snap out of this dream and entitlement.

50$ isn’t much money when it can give you years of entertainment.

You can easily spend 50$ at a club or restaurant with a group of friends in one night. And you know how much that $50 got ya? 1 night of fun. I don’t feel it’s a big deal. It’s funny how these types of decisions arenanet makes shines a spot light on all the ppl out there who come out crying & they come off as entitled brats. Good riddance to you. You have no consideration but for yourself.

And if you bought the core game earlier this year directly from ArenaNet, you can get a refund! And then you can put that entire refund to buy HoT + Core game! Amazing! Yes, that’s right, Arenanet will give a refund to those who have purchased the core game in the last EIGHT MONTHS.

I happily play GW2 and have played since head start. I have happily played Gw1 back in 2005. And I want to support ArenaNet. There wouldn’t be a game like guild wars if it weren’t for them and all their hard work.

Also for those of you who have an opinion that free accounts are going to ruin the game with botting and gold selling, let it go & read the news article they posted with economy restrictions.

Just sick and tired of the whining and entitlement.

And I think Gaile Gray from ArenaNet agrees with the points I’ve made as here is what she says to a forum thread made about the same outrage:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/new-business-model-equality/page/2#post5436673

“I do not understand these threads. “My family and I have played thousands of hours, but we feel ‘cheated’ because the person who is joining now plays the core game for free or pays just the one fee for Heart of Thorns.”
Let’s consider another type of purchase, that of DVDs. FotR was $30 when it came out on DVD. You now can get all three chapters of LotR for less than $20. But the person who buys now lost years of viewing pleasure because he didn’t own the video at release. LotR is shown for free on television, but that doesn’t negate the value of purchasing the DVDs, for those of us who chose to make those purchases. Imagine showing up at a DVD retailer and saying, “This movie is now free. I want money off another title.”
The hours in Guild Wars 2 that your family has enjoyed—very likely the thousands of accumulated hours—are not without value. They are not, to us, without cost. The 40 major updates we have made to the game that you have been enjoying for three years each add significant value to your purchases: Wintersday festivals that a new player will never be able to attend, major in-game events they’ll never see, drops that were only available to you, as a veteran player, during a limited period.
The position in the first post has been put forth by different people and successfully dispelled time and time again. OP — Please know that we greatly appreciate your support. I encourage you to make whatever purchase decision is best for you and your family. But please never forget that all you have gotten for each of your purchases does have value, in the overall view of things.”

Quoting Gaile Gray:

“I do not understand these threads. “My family and I have played thousands of hours, but we feel ‘cheated’ because the person who is joining now plays the core game for free or pays just the one fee for Heart of Thorns.”
Let’s consider another type of purchase, that of DVDs. FotR was $30 when it came out on DVD. You now can get all three chapters of LotR for less than $20. But the person who buys now lost years of viewing pleasure because he didn’t own the video at release. LotR is shown for free on television, but that doesn’t negate the value of purchasing the DVDs, for those of us who chose to make those purchases. Imagine showing up at a DVD retailer and saying, “This movie is now free. I want money off another title.”
The hours in Guild Wars 2 that your family has enjoyed—very likely the thousands of accumulated hours—are not without value. They are not, to us, without cost. The 40 major updates we have made to the game that you have been enjoying for three years each add significant value to your purchases: Wintersday festivals that a new player will never be able to attend, major in-game events they’ll never see, drops that were only available to you, as a veteran player, during a limited period.
The position in the first post has been put forth by different people and successfully dispelled time and time again. OP — Please know that we greatly appreciate your support. I encourage you to make whatever purchase decision is best for you and your family. But please never forget that all you have gotten for each of your purchases does have value, in the overall view of things.”

If you got what was advertised when you bought the game, you were not cheated. It’s that simple!

Every. Single. Day. One. Of. These. Pop. On. Forums. This is even worse than wing plauge.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Azumi.9572:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I want to know is, where were all these posts claiming I was ripped off/cheated/conned/etc when the game went for sale at $10 seven months or so ago? Why weren’t you at least 83% as outraged that someone new paid $10 and you paid $60 back then?

Because they still had to pay for the game and the exp. pack.

People like myself who have been here since Day 1 supporting ArenaNet had to put down 60$+ for the core game and now another 60$+ for HoT (I paid 100$) while people just playing today pay 60$ and get all the same content I get for less than half the price.

I personally don’t care, but I’m guessing that’s the argument.

“Why are they equal to us when we’ve been here longer and paid more money?”

They paid $10 for the core then $50 for the expansion while vets paid $60 and $50. So why didn’t they rage against them getting it for $50 cheaper? Unless that made them angry, their argument makes no sense.

I think the word ‘free’ is what brings up the feelings of being shortchanged.

But I mean, the argument ends with this statement:

GW2 Core’s value is DOWN. When I bought it the value was UP. Ergo, I paid more. Supply/demand. We bought it during high demand, they get it during extremely low demand.

That’s business.

My reward for being a Veteran was an extra character slot (needed) an awesome dye (I messed up and picked a bad one) a heavy armor set (that is ugly to me and won’t be used) and a couple of other things. I think they were boosts. Was it 50$ in value? Probably not. But I wouldn’t expect ArenaNet to give me a refund 3 years later after I pumped countless hours into their game and ate up all the content it had to offer.

My feelings all stem from me paying 100$ for HoT and never feeling confident about the exp. pack content, a lack of confidence that continues to grow the closer we get to release.

Separate issue and mostly on me.

Azumi.9572:

briggah.7910:

Azumi.9572:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I want to know is, where were all these posts claiming I was ripped off/cheated/conned/etc when the game went for sale at $10 seven months or so ago? Why weren’t you at least 83% as outraged that someone new paid $10 and you paid $60 back then?

Because they still had to pay for the game and the exp. pack.

People like myself who have been here since Day 1 supporting ArenaNet had to put down 60$+ for the core game and now another 60$+ for HoT (I paid 100$) while people just playing today pay 60$ and get all the same content I get for less than half the price.

I personally don’t care, but I’m guessing that’s the argument.

“Why are they equal to us when we’ve been here longer and paid more money?”

They do not get all the same content you got.. How many times do people have to point this out to people on these forums..

I’m starting to think people have killed way too many brain cells over there time to even think of saying something like this.

And I think fanboys need to stop being so emotionally involved with this game, they attack like rabid flesh eating dogs when someone points anything slightly negative about it.

It’s cool when you act like that when it’s about your Mother – when it’s about a game, you just look ridiculous.

Hey if you want to look like a complete brain dead person keep saying that new players get the same game for free that you had to pay for yet have been playing it for years and got 40 free content updates that new free players didn’t get.

We are just trying to show you that you got more but you are so thick headed it doesn’t sink in for you..

Azumi.9572:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Azumi.9572:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I want to know is, where were all these posts claiming I was ripped off/cheated/conned/etc when the game went for sale at $10 seven months or so ago? Why weren’t you at least 83% as outraged that someone new paid $10 and you paid $60 back then?

Because they still had to pay for the game and the exp. pack.

People like myself who have been here since Day 1 supporting ArenaNet had to put down 60$+ for the core game and now another 60$+ for HoT (I paid 100$) while people just playing today pay 60$ and get all the same content I get for less than half the price.

I personally don’t care, but I’m guessing that’s the argument.

“Why are they equal to us when we’ve been here longer and paid more money?”

They paid $10 for the core then $50 for the expansion while vets paid $60 and $50. So why didn’t they rage against them getting it for $50 cheaper? Unless that made them angry, their argument makes no sense.

I think the word ‘free’ is what brings up the feelings of being shortchanged.

But I mean, the argument ends with this statement:

GW2 Core’s value is DOWN. When I bought it the value was UP. Ergo, I paid more. Supply/demand. We bought it during high demand, they get it during extremely low demand.

That’s business.

My reward for being a Veteran was an extra character slot (needed) an awesome dye (I messed up and picked a bad one) a heavy armor set (that is ugly to me and won’t be used) and a couple of other things. I think they were boosts. Was it 50$ in value? Probably not. But I wouldn’t expect ArenaNet to give me a refund 3 years later after I pumped countless hours into their game and ate up all the content it had to offer.

My feelings all stem from me paying 100$ for HoT and never feeling confident about the exp. pack content, a lack of confidence that continues to grow the closer we get to release.

Separate issue and mostly on me.

You noticed the problem, “free” is an emotive word and people saying “cheated”, “kicked and spat on when down” are clearly being over run by emotion and not thinking.

3 years of play and updates and still didn’t get their money’s worth? No, they are just overemotional and not thinking clearly.

Anyway. Easy way to avoid this would have been to offer a discount for Veterans on HoT.

Instead of paying 100$ for the Ultimate, I woulda paid 70$ (current Deluxe price) and instead of paying 70$ for Deluxe, I woulda paid 50$ (current standard price).

Veterans would get Deluxe at the price of standard and Ultimate at the price of Deluxe.

But maybe I’m being greedy and that discount is too big :-)

Manasa Devi.7958:

If you got what was advertised when you bought the game, you were not cheated. It’s that simple!

well we did not? How about the countless promises of:

- dueling incomming after the game’s release
- extra classes will come in after the game’s release
- living story is our way of doing expansions, we won’t do real expansions ever. Buy the game once, enjoy forever!
- you’ll be able to do a scavenger hunt for precursors (expansion locked now)
- we’ll add more things to do for guilds (expansion locked now)
- legendary armour is incoming! (expansion locked now)
- ascended items will be gotten only from fractals and useful only in fractals (makes sense as to why I had to grind EVERYTHING ELSE to get gear whose main purpose is to slot in agony resistance for fractals)
- no extra gear tiers! (Except that ascended stuff that we put in later)
- we’ll never do raids!
- we’ll never go F2P!
- SAB will return! (that was said around 2 years ago. Where is it then?)

There were so so so many lies told. Then half the promises are repeated for the expansion pack and for that one they are already saying “this will come later, after release!”, how much are we going to bet that that “after release” will turn into “it’s a feature in the next expansion!”.

And to all of those saying “oh, but you got season 2 LS for free!”. Anyone that couldn’t log in that half a year didn’t. There are plenty of veterans that didn’t.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

3 years of fun for 60$? Yes please.

yup, for less then 2$ a month, that is some good times to be had.

Mirta.5029:

Manasa Devi.7958:

If you got what was advertised when you bought the game, you were not cheated. It’s that simple!

well we did not? How about the countless promises of:

- dueling incomming after the game’s release
- extra classes will come in after the game’s release
- living story is our way of doing expansions, we won’t do real expansions ever. Buy the game once, enjoy forever!
- you’ll be able to do a scavenger hunt for precursors (expansion locked now)
- we’ll add more things to do for guilds (expansion locked now)
- legendary armour is incoming! (expansion locked now)
- ascended items will be gotten only from fractals and useful only in fractals (makes sense as to why I had to grind EVERYTHING ELSE to get gear whose main purpose is to slot in agony resistance for fractals)
- no extra gear tiers! (Except that ascended stuff that we put in later)
- we’ll never do raids!
- we’ll never go F2P!
- SAB will return! (that was said around 2 years ago. Where is it then?)

There were so so so many lies told. Then half the promises are repeated for the expansion pack and for that one they are already saying “this will come later, after release!”, how much are we going to bet that that “after release” will turn into “it’s a feature in the next expansion!”.

And to all of those saying “oh, but you got season 2 LS for free!”. Anyone that couldn’t log in that half a year didn’t. There are plenty of veterans that didn’t.

I doubt they promised anything. Things change over time. If they kept going the same route this game may no longer even be around..

You can duel your friends all you want in custom pvp arenas.. I see no point in adding a dueling feature.

Game doesn’t even have classes.. It has professions.

Living story was just not enough to keep players in this game.. Players are what pushed for the expansion.

You can do just as well in exotic gear as you can in ascended gear. I run around in wvw on my alts all using exotics and can kill so many people so gear tier isn’t the same as other games where if you didn’t have a certain piece of gear you would not be as effective.

Players wanted raids

Restricted free to play accounts missed out on a lot of game content. What they meant was you will never have to pay a sub fee.

SAB – ok you have a point there.

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats the deal with bonuses, you go out of your way (pre-purchase), they go out of their way (give you bonuses).

And that’s my problem. A character slot is required in order to access the new profession. It should not be considered a “bonus”.

I have absolutely no problem with them giving extra stuff to people willing to pre-purchase. But when they try to withhold something that should be a standard component of any expansion pack that features a new playable profession and try to pass it off like it’s some wonderful “extra”, I have a problem with that.

They could have given away a thousand extra bonuses and I would have been fine with that. But a character slot is something that I expect to receive when I pay for an expansion that features a new profession. And again, I’m not asking for a “free” character slot. If I’m paying fifty bucks, it should be included in that price.

exactly. a character slot is not a bonus, it is required in order to play a major part of the expac. existing character slots were part of the core game; they have been paid for.

Meh, I got this game in March and am still having a blast. On my second character now and I haven’t paid for any gem store goodies yet so $10 is a steal.

Will I be pre-ordering HoT? Nope. I still haven’t even explored Rata Sum yet! Sure my lvl 80 will probably lose out on a few masteries when HoT arrives but it’s not going to cripple me. I’ll stay my leisurely pace exploring Tyria. By the time I’ve fully explored this place and all its fractals and dungeons, HoT will probably be on sale for me to pick up for cheap.

scerevisiae.1972:

minbariguy.7504:

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats the deal with bonuses, you go out of your way (pre-purchase), they go out of their way (give you bonuses).

And that’s my problem. A character slot is required in order to access the new profession. It should not be considered a “bonus”.

I have absolutely no problem with them giving extra stuff to people willing to pre-purchase. But when they try to withhold something that should be a standard component of any expansion pack that features a new playable profession and try to pass it off like it’s some wonderful “extra”, I have a problem with that.

They could have given away a thousand extra bonuses and I would have been fine with that. But a character slot is something that I expect to receive when I pay for an expansion that features a new profession. And again, I’m not asking for a “free” character slot. If I’m paying fifty bucks, it should be included in that price.

exactly. a character slot is not a bonus, it is required in order to play a major part of the expac. existing character slots were part of the core game; they have been paid for.

You still had to buy extra character slots to play every profession unless you deleted and recreated.

If more people saw revenant as a major part of this expansion there would be less people complaining about the price.

It is just a profession. Don’t even have to play one or make one if you do not like.

Azumi.9572:

Anyway. Easy way to avoid this would have been to offer a discount for Veterans on HoT.

Instead of paying 100$ for the Ultimate, I woulda paid 70$ (current Deluxe price) and instead of paying 70$ for Deluxe, I woulda paid 50$ (current standard price).

Veterans would get Deluxe at the price of standard and Ultimate at the price of Deluxe.

But maybe I’m being greedy and that discount is too big :-)

Yup definitely greed – I just bought the standard package and feel it was £35 well spent – no one forced you to throw an extra £45 at it xD

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Azumi.9572:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I want to know is, where were all these posts claiming I was ripped off/cheated/conned/etc when the game went for sale at $10 seven months or so ago? Why weren’t you at least 83% as outraged that someone new paid $10 and you paid $60 back then?

Because they still had to pay for the game and the exp. pack.

People like myself who have been here since Day 1 supporting ArenaNet had to put down 60$+ for the core game and now another 60$+ for HoT (I paid 100$) while people just playing today pay 60$ and get all the same content I get for less than half the price.

I personally don’t care, but I’m guessing that’s the argument.

“Why are they equal to us when we’ve been here longer and paid more money?”

The new people paid $10 for the core then $50 for the expansion while vets paid $60 and $50. So why didn’t the vets rage against them getting it for $50 cheaper? Unless that made them angry, their argument makes no sense.

Two possibilities.

• The word “free” triggers a reaction. While the difference between $0 outrage and $10 outrage seems like it ought to be small, the idea that someone else got a freebie and one didn’t could trigger rage.
• It’s not about outrage, it’s about using the point as a strategy to try to wangle a lower price for something they want. Throw blame at the developer, generate some agreement from others, and hope that there will be enough impact to lower the price before release. Not going to happen, but hope springs eternal.

I’d guess the latter is more prevalent than the former, tbh. The value of core for someone who has been around a long time is probably lower than $10 now. I’m certainly not inclined to start a new free account.

What about the ones that bought the game a couple of months there was any news on the expansion and spent 50$ on it then a few months later they tell you oh here expansion oh and we giving you the core game for free. There is no 3 years of playing time but only a few months before they tell you this. I feel cheated I’m not buying an expansion for the same amount as the core game I bought and also for me where I live 50$ its a huge amount of money so when I thought oh I finally bought the game after waiting for so long just to get told I have to spend another 50$ for an expansion? or that I have to wait another year or so to be lucky enough to have the money at the same time as sale happens? how about no. Thank you very much for the experience but I’m so not buying the expansion.

Acmeth.2496:

What about the ones that bought the game a couple of months there was any news on the expansion and spent 50$ on it then a few months later they tell you oh here expansion oh and we giving you the core game for free. There is no 3 years of playing time but only a few months before they tell you this. I feel cheated I’m not buying an expansion for the same amount as the core game I bought and also for me where I live 50$ its a huge amount of money so when I thought oh I finally bought the game after waiting for so long just to get told I have to spend another 50$ for an expansion? or that I have to wait another year or so to be lucky enough to have the money at the same time as sale happens? how about no. Thank you very much for the experience but I’m so not buying the expansion.

They’re refund you unless you purchased from a retailer.

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ/#Additional

RLD.7439:

As someone who was here from the very beginning I feel a cheated.

A FTP player can join the game for zero dollar investment, but has to purchase HoT to receive that content. Okay, no argument there until we look at how unfair this is to veterans.

Original GW2 was what $60 for standard? HoT is $49 for standard. So basically A FTP player can get everything for $49, yet veterans have to pay a total of roughly $110?

Seems to me veterans should be getting HoT for free. Correct my logic any way you see fit. I’d like to be enlightened.

Did you feel cheated when the game frequently went on sale for $10-$15, or how every other place on the internet (Amazon for example) was selling it for $10-$15 as the regular price. You paid $60, someone come in a year later and got it for $15, did you expect some kind of refund for that? For the last year the game was basically $10 from Arenanet, and $10 in so many other places. So really, them giving it away for free with heavy restrictions at a $10 discount is nothing to feel cheated about.

MiniEquine.6014:

Zero Day.2594:

So about the commonly seen argument or the notion of “hours of entertainment per dollar” metric. Like some people use it as argument that you paid $X (say $50) and played for thousands of hours (say 3000 hours), clearly you got your money’s worth.
Personally I think the original/vanilla was worth the price, but I’m not basing my judgement on how many hours I’ve played.
Similarly to how I wouldn’t judge a book to be good based on the number of pages I’ve read and the amount I paid for it.
Or going to a wonderland, getting a day ticket from the time they open and staying there till I’m kicked out – just to get the most hours per dollar of entertainment out of it.
Or I don’t count the number of chews/time I was chewing a bubble gum and the amount of I paid for it, to say if I liked it or justify buying and buying it again.
Or I wouldn’t choose not to go to a movie because it’s 2 hours long and costs $15 while another is 3 hours long and also costs $15. (Nevermind comparing the movies to games…)
This kind of “hours of entertainment per dollar” metric seems to fly way past my head.

On a deeper level… Fulfillment in life isn’t determined by the age of a person.

It’s not a poor metric to use. The argument is that what you spend your time doing is what you value more than that which you don’t spend your time doing.

For example, say you work a 40hr/week job that you don’t particularly like. The reason you continue to work for it is because you value what it gives you more than you value what you would have without it; money. If you could get by without having to work that job, you would likely fill your time with something more fulfilling or entertaining.

Similar thing with entertainment. You have a limited amount of time on this Earth and you allocate how you spend it to different things. A game that costs $50 and gives you 3000 hours of entertainment that you enjoy is extremely efficient at providing you that entertainment. A 2 hr movie for $15 is, relatively, extremely inefficient at delivering entertainment, but you may still enjoy it all the same. Perceived value and actual value may vary greatly as you may feel you loved the movie more than the game, but you have devoted 2998 more hours of your life playing the game than watching the movie, so you value that more, ultimately.

If only things were so mechanical, the world would be so simple – that and Hollywood would be so empty…

Mirta.5029:

Manasa Devi.7958:

If you got what was advertised when you bought the game, you were not cheated. It’s that simple!

well we did not? How about the countless promises of:

- dueling incomming after the game’s release
- extra classes will come in after the game’s release
- living story is our way of doing expansions, we won’t do real expansions ever. Buy the game once, enjoy forever!
- you’ll be able to do a scavenger hunt for precursors (expansion locked now)
- we’ll add more things to do for guilds (expansion locked now)
- legendary armour is incoming! (expansion locked now)
- ascended items will be gotten only from fractals and useful only in fractals (makes sense as to why I had to grind EVERYTHING ELSE to get gear whose main purpose is to slot in agony resistance for fractals)
- no extra gear tiers! (Except that ascended stuff that we put in later)
- we’ll never do raids!
- we’ll never go F2P!
- SAB will return! (that was said around 2 years ago. Where is it then?)

There were so so so many lies told. Then half the promises are repeated for the expansion pack and for that one they are already saying “this will come later, after release!”, how much are we going to bet that that “after release” will turn into “it’s a feature in the next expansion!”.

And to all of those saying “oh, but you got season 2 LS for free!”. Anyone that couldn’t log in that half a year didn’t. There are plenty of veterans that didn’t.

Nice to see you make up complete lies here. How do I know that you are lying? Cause you already gave a link to one of those things you listed in a different thread, and that link did not say what you said it did. So stop lying, and don’t make up stuff that the developers never stated.

I had a bit to say about the pricing before and while it is still a bit higher then I thought it should be one of my complaints was if the base game was free and the expansion was this price then where is the free copy for my friends to download….. well you win this round ANET. If they trust the value of the expansion enough to follow though and give the base game away then I am much more interested in what they have to offer.

Ayrilana.1396:

Acmeth.2496:

What about the ones that bought the game a couple of months there was any news on the expansion and spent 50$ on it then a few months later they tell you oh here expansion oh and we giving you the core game for free. There is no 3 years of playing time but only a few months before they tell you this. I feel cheated I’m not buying an expansion for the same amount as the core game I bought and also for me where I live 50$ its a huge amount of money so when I thought oh I finally bought the game after waiting for so long just to get told I have to spend another 50$ for an expansion? or that I have to wait another year or so to be lucky enough to have the money at the same time as sale happens? how about no. Thank you very much for the experience but I’m so not buying the expansion.

They’re refund you unless you purchased from a retailer.

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ/#Additional

Off by less than a month 3 weeks, but thank you anyway for the information.

The fact that we don’t have a CE, has that to do with Anet publishing themselves now?

Personally im afraid i wont get another 6k+ hours out of the new expansion (not even 2k+). I would really buy this expansion for about 30 euro’s and find out but im not gonna risc that for an outrageous 45 euro’s for each familymember. HoT is not a new game so i might aswell buy another new released game. I wont complain about the game became F2P or whatever, i had lots of fun for 60 euro’s those 3 years. The expansion is just overpriced so i wont pre-order nor buy it when it gets released unless the price goes down within 2 weeks after release. Chance that happens is unlikely so by that time i probably moved on to the next game. Thanks for 3 great years before this mess up in marketting tho.

Im not going to continue to argue the logic behind paying the same price just for expansion as others pay for the whole game. This only makes people who obviously support this decision attempt to insult my intelligence which I am not interested in. As Gale said, I will just not buy HoT which probably means my time here is pretty much expired. I had no idea I was buying a time gated game when I bought GW2 but I have been wrong before.

I understand now after reading the arguments that buying this game entitles you to about 3 years of fun according to some people (Including Anet) That is fine, but I cant afford to upgrade me and my familys accounts at this price and dont agree that I should have to. Im sure that many in my guild will pay though as we were founded during beta and have spent a lot of time and effort building to this point. If they do, they will probably be playing HoT content which leaves me with no guild to play with so I guess my days are over. I will miss this game however so I will say good job on making 2 great games that have filled my free time for 10 years Anet!

dane.4638:

Im not going to continue to argue the logic behind paying the same price just for expansion as others pay for the whole game. This only makes people who obviously support this decision attempt to insult my intelligence which I am not interested in. As Gale said, I will just not buy HoT which probably means my time here is pretty much expired. I had no idea I was buying a time gated game when I bought GW2 but I have been wrong before.

I understand now after reading the arguments that buying this game entitles you to about 3 years of fun according to some people (Including Anet) That is fine, but I cant afford to upgrade me and my familys accounts at this price and dont agree that I should have to. Im sure that many in my guild will pay though as we were founded during beta and have spent a lot of time and effort building to this point. If they do, they will probably be playing HoT content which leaves me with no guild to play with so I guess my days are over. I will miss this game however so I will say good job on making 2 great games that have filled my free time for 10 years Anet!

With all due respect, but this game has been initial sold as being B2P, then you should have expected this.. in fact you should have expected the first €50,- expansion as soon as a year after release (also see GW1), and the next one a year later and now it would have been the 3th. However they went the cash-shop way meaning they did try you to convince buying in-game items instead of expansions.

It is not really time-gated but to already have the latest stuff you will need to always buy the latest expansion.. what I personally find better than having fun items being moved to a cash-shop.

I have no problems with paying money, but I want to pay for a good product, not pay less, or nothing for a product and then have a lesser product for it because they try to earn the money in other ways. As long as they now start behaving as a B2P game all is fine.

Zero Day.2594:

MiniEquine.6014:

Zero Day.2594:

So about the commonly seen argument or the notion of “hours of entertainment per dollar” metric. Like some people use it as argument that you paid $X (say $50) and played for thousands of hours (say 3000 hours), clearly you got your money’s worth.
Personally I think the original/vanilla was worth the price, but I’m not basing my judgement on how many hours I’ve played.
Similarly to how I wouldn’t judge a book to be good based on the number of pages I’ve read and the amount I paid for it.
Or going to a wonderland, getting a day ticket from the time they open and staying there till I’m kicked out – just to get the most hours per dollar of entertainment out of it.
Or I don’t count the number of chews/time I was chewing a bubble gum and the amount of I paid for it, to say if I liked it or justify buying and buying it again.
Or I wouldn’t choose not to go to a movie because it’s 2 hours long and costs $15 while another is 3 hours long and also costs $15. (Nevermind comparing the movies to games…)
This kind of “hours of entertainment per dollar” metric seems to fly way past my head.

On a deeper level… Fulfillment in life isn’t determined by the age of a person.

It’s not a poor metric to use. The argument is that what you spend your time doing is what you value more than that which you don’t spend your time doing.

For example, say you work a 40hr/week job that you don’t particularly like. The reason you continue to work for it is because you value what it gives you more than you value what you would have without it; money. If you could get by without having to work that job, you would likely fill your time with something more fulfilling or entertaining.

Similar thing with entertainment. You have a limited amount of time on this Earth and you allocate how you spend it to different things. A game that costs $50 and gives you 3000 hours of entertainment that you enjoy is extremely efficient at providing you that entertainment. A 2 hr movie for $15 is, relatively, extremely inefficient at delivering entertainment, but you may still enjoy it all the same. Perceived value and actual value may vary greatly as you may feel you loved the movie more than the game, but you have devoted 2998 more hours of your life playing the game than watching the movie, so you value that more, ultimately.

If only things were so mechanical, the world would be so simple – that and Hollywood would be so empty…

It doesn’t make it any less the reality. Perceived value and Actual value sometimes don’t match up, but it absolutely is important to consider both. When they both vary tremendously for an individual person, that person is making some interestingly weird decisions.

If a person perceives value of doing something much greater than anything else but never does it, then they don’t actually value it quite as much as they think they do. If a person perceives no value of doing something as opposed to anything else but they do it all the time, then they do value it more, ultimately.

Perception is subjective, but actuality is objective.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Two possibilities.

• The word “free” triggers a reaction. While the difference between $0 outrage and $10 outrage seems like it ought to be small, the idea that someone else got a freebie and one didn’t could trigger rage.
• It’s not about outrage, it’s about using the point as a strategy to try to wangle a lower price for something they want. Throw blame at the developer, generate some agreement from others, and hope that there will be enough impact to lower the price before release. Not going to happen, but hope springs eternal.

I’d guess the latter is more prevalent than the former, tbh. The value of core for someone who has been around a long time is probably lower than $10 now. I’m certainly not inclined to start a new free account.

I’d like to add a third possibility:

[list]
[*]Older players are literally asked to play for the ‘free’ core game given to the new players.
[/list]

Seriously…

If you look at the content we’re getting with HoT, it’s around 1\3 – 1\4 of what Core Game gave us, there’s no way for that to be valued almost as how much the Core Game was originally sold for. HoT is delivering pretty much the same content that Imperial City is delivering on Elder Scroll online, but for double the price. Only reason I can see? ANet is making up the money they ‘lost’ with giving away the free Core Pack to new players by supercharging the expansion price and making use of the larger demographic group of the older players.

I agree it may be seen as a subclass of your second possibility if you really, REALLY, want to be picky. But personally there’s much difference between expressing disappointment about an overpriced product and bargaining for a lower price.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Azumi.9572:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I want to know is, where were all these posts claiming I was ripped off/cheated/conned/etc when the game went for sale at $10 seven months or so ago? Why weren’t you at least 83% as outraged that someone new paid $10 and you paid $60 back then?

Because they still had to pay for the game and the exp. pack.

People like myself who have been here since Day 1 supporting ArenaNet had to put down 60$+ for the core game and now another 60$+ for HoT (I paid 100$) while people just playing today pay 60$ and get all the same content I get for less than half the price.

I personally don’t care, but I’m guessing that’s the argument.

“Why are they equal to us when we’ve been here longer and paid more money?”

The new people paid $10 for the core then $50 for the expansion while vets paid $60 and $50. So why didn’t the vets rage against them getting it for $50 cheaper? Unless that made them angry, their argument makes no sense.

Two possibilities.

• The word “free” triggers a reaction. While the difference between $0 outrage and $10 outrage seems like it ought to be small, the idea that someone else got a freebie and one didn’t could trigger rage.
• It’s not about outrage, it’s about using the point as a strategy to try to wangle a lower price for something they want. Throw blame at the developer, generate some agreement from others, and hope that there will be enough impact to lower the price before release. Not going to happen, but hope springs eternal.

I’d guess the latter is more prevalent than the former, tbh. The value of core for someone who has been around a long time is probably lower than $10 now. I’m certainly not inclined to start a new free account.

free is actually known to be a huge difference in understanding. And it actually translates to a huge difference in reality. This is why they didnt make the game cost 5 dollars. Essentially the difference between =0 and >0 is huge.

Not surprising it would cause big differences in opinions, in both directions.

as to the second point, I recently realized that people have forgotten the nature of business. Trade, on both sides is about trading value for value. Prices are never really absolute, Anet makes infinitely more from a discounted sale, than a non sale. Expressing the fact that you dont like a current deal, is definately people saying lower the price, or add more to the product.

But those people are actually giving you more information on the viability of your pricing. They are telling you, for this price/product i dont feel its enticing enough. Even if they do buy it, they are basically letting you know it was a grudging price, that tells you something about how they will feel about the future development/company.

Devata.6589:

dane.4638:

Im not going to continue to argue the logic behind paying the same price just for expansion as others pay for the whole game. This only makes people who obviously support this decision attempt to insult my intelligence which I am not interested in. As Gale said, I will just not buy HoT which probably means my time here is pretty much expired. I had no idea I was buying a time gated game when I bought GW2 but I have been wrong before.

I understand now after reading the arguments that buying this game entitles you to about 3 years of fun according to some people (Including Anet) That is fine, but I cant afford to upgrade me and my familys accounts at this price and dont agree that I should have to. Im sure that many in my guild will pay though as we were founded during beta and have spent a lot of time and effort building to this point. If they do, they will probably be playing HoT content which leaves me with no guild to play with so I guess my days are over. I will miss this game however so I will say good job on making 2 great games that have filled my free time for 10 years Anet!

With all due respect, but this game has been initial sold as being B2P, then you should have expected this.. in fact you should have expected the first €50,- expansion as soon as a year after release (also see GW1), and the next one a year later and now it would have been the 3th. However they went the cash-shop way meaning they did try you to convince buying in-game items instead of expansions.

It is not really time-gated but to already have the latest stuff you will need to always buy the latest expansion.. what I personally find better than having fun items being moved to a cash-shop.

I have no problems with paying money, but I want to pay for a good product, not pay less, or nothing for a product and then have a lesser product for it because they try to earn the money in other ways. As long as they now start behaving as a B2P game all is fine.

actually its definately time gated, im not saying thats good or bad, but the model is definately set up in a different manner than buy 2 play.

buy 2 play involves a separation of concerns that gw2 will not have. Gw1 was buy to play. Prophecies was seperate from factions seperate from nightfall, even eye of the north was fairly self contained.

Gw2 new model is a time gating more than buy 2 play.
What is going on depends on time.
old game = free to play
new game = exclusive access to new stuff
wait long enough, new games cycles to old game.

What you are buying now is exclusive access to things until the next expansion.

also there isnt that separation.
fractals are effected by buying the new content
precursor quest is based on the old content, but its locked to the new game. Core masteries are based on old content, but locked in new game.

the business model is basically a free to play with timed exclusivities.
Not that thats a horrible thing, but it has its own ups and downs.
The biggest unknowns now, is how they will develop/release content under this new plan, how long between purchases, and how much content with expansion.
Right now, it seems like content for new expansion is low (to me)
time between content is unknown.

I think they themselves arent sure yet exactly how this will effect their development strategies and execution.

anet is a bit ADD, they love to try new things, on the flip side, they dont usually move forward/refine a lot because they constantly change direction. I would be surprised if this whole model they set up ends up changing before the next “expansion” (air quotes because they will probably change their plan) hits.

phys.7689:

as to the second point, I recently realized that people have forgotten the nature of business. Trade, on both sides is about trading value for value. Prices are never really absolute, Anet makes infinitely more from a discounted sale, than a non sale. Expressing the fact that you dont like a current deal, is definately people saying lower the price, or add more to the product.

I am certainly not against people expressing their opinion of the current value offered by HoT. However, the nature of the protests also tends to demonstrate the same lack of understanding of how business works as some of the counter-arguments.

IndigoSundown.5419:

phys.7689:

as to the second point, I recently realized that people have forgotten the nature of business. Trade, on both sides is about trading value for value. Prices are never really absolute, Anet makes infinitely more from a discounted sale, than a non sale. Expressing the fact that you dont like a current deal, is definately people saying lower the price, or add more to the product.

I am certainly not against people expressing their opinion of the current value offered by HoT. However, the nature of the protests also tends to demonstrate the same lack of understanding of how business works as some of the counter-arguments.

This, and what Phys stated isn’t 100% true in the full context. They make infinitely more in sales revenue, but that doesn’t account for any psychological effects that could potentially lead to spending money in the gem store as the result of not needing to pay for anything up front. In fact, the mobile gaming market relies on this very principle to make money by offering free games and apps but relying on “whales” who spend thousands of dollars in-game. GW2 obviously doesn’t have the same structure, but having an extremely low barrier-to-entry will allow some more whales the opportunity to decide where to spend their money without risking any in the first place (like if they didn’t enjoy the game after spending $50).

lioka qiao.8734:

Should someone who buys a product have rights to equity assumed by the change of that product’s price later on as sold to others?

This is what this boils down to.
I bought X 3 years ago for $60. The guy who made X now makes addon Y for X for $45. X is now free with the option to add Y for $45 so that the guy who made X can sell Y easier. Should I have rights to the price difference between X and Y because X is now free?

To assume I should is incredibly greedy. I already got 3 years worth of value out of X. That value was bought and paid for. Now I’m paying for addon Y to X so i can get more value out of X. Someone else may get X for free but I still got more value over the time I had X. I got my time out of X. I shouldn’t care about others getting it for free. Now I’m adding Y to X and I’ll get more use out of it. Y’s value is its own.

Well I paid for X and I got what I paid for, you are right with that. X had a good price, because I got good value out of it. Now they are selling Y. I personally doubt that Y has enough content for me to be as valuable as X, so I think the price should be lower. I bought X for 45€ and they want 42€ for Y. For me that is too much, Y has less than X and therefore should be cheaper (my opinion). In the past I paid money for A, B, C, (Guild Wars 1 business modell) but they had similar content and were priced similar. Then D was a smaller upgrade and the price was smaller too, so I bought D too.

Someone who doesn’t have X, now gets X+Y for a good price. X+Y has good content, I can see how it is worth 42€. Y alone however… This it what it boils down to for me. I am not angry at anyone getting X for free or now buying Y. I just wanted to show that things have different value for different people. As an owner of X, I simply think Y is not worth the asking price. The value of Y is lower than the value of X, but they want almost the same money, so I won’t buy Y. For a lower price I would buy Y, but of course I have no right to get a discount.

MiniEquine.6014:

IndigoSundown.5419:

phys.7689:

as to the second point, I recently realized that people have forgotten the nature of business. Trade, on both sides is about trading value for value. Prices are never really absolute, Anet makes infinitely more from a discounted sale, than a non sale. Expressing the fact that you dont like a current deal, is definately people saying lower the price, or add more to the product.

I am certainly not against people expressing their opinion of the current value offered by HoT. However, the nature of the protests also tends to demonstrate the same lack of understanding of how business works as some of the counter-arguments.

This, and what Phys stated isn’t 100% true in the full context. They make infinitely more in sales revenue, but that doesn’t account for any psychological effects that could potentially lead to spending money in the gem store as the result of not needing to pay for anything up front. In fact, the mobile gaming market relies on this very principle to make money by offering free games and apps but relying on “whales” who spend thousands of dollars in-game. GW2 obviously doesn’t have the same structure, but having an extremely low barrier-to-entry will allow some more whales the opportunity to decide where to spend their money without risking any in the first place (like if they didn’t enjoy the game after spending $50).

Got to put in some context of what a “whale” is though. A “Whale” doesn’t spend as much as you might think. Over the years of reading various professional articles based on studies and interviews with professionals in the industry, “whales” are anybody who spends more than the average spender does. The average spender spends about $40-$50 a year, so anybody who spends more than $50 a year would be considered as a ’Whale". So yeah, you can be considered as a “whale” when you are actually spending a lot less than a subscription game.

Fennek.7602:

lioka qiao.8734:

Should someone who buys a product have rights to equity assumed by the change of that product’s price later on as sold to others?

This is what this boils down to.
I bought X 3 years ago for $60. The guy who made X now makes addon Y for X for $45. X is now free with the option to add Y for $45 so that the guy who made X can sell Y easier. Should I have rights to the price difference between X and Y because X is now free?

To assume I should is incredibly greedy. I already got 3 years worth of value out of X. That value was bought and paid for. Now I’m paying for addon Y to X so i can get more value out of X. Someone else may get X for free but I still got more value over the time I had X. I got my time out of X. I shouldn’t care about others getting it for free. Now I’m adding Y to X and I’ll get more use out of it. Y’s value is its own.

Well I paid for X and I got what I paid for, you are right with that. X had a good price, because I got good value out of it. Now they are selling Y. I personally doubt that Y has enough content for me to be as valuable as X, so I think the price should be lower. I bought X for 45€ and they want 42€ for Y. For me that is too much, Y has less than X and therefore should be cheaper (my opinion). In the past I paid money for A, B, C, (Guild Wars 1 business modell) but they had similar content and were priced similar. Then D was a smaller upgrade and the price was smaller too, so I bought D too.

Someone who doesn’t have X, now gets X+Y for a good price. X+Y has good content, I can see how it is worth 42€. Y alone however… This it what it boils down to for me. I am not angry at anyone getting X for free or now buying Y. I just wanted to show that things have different value for different people. As an owner of X, I simply think Y is not worth the asking price. The value of Y is lower than the value of X, but they want almost the same money, so I won’t buy Y. For a lower price I would buy Y, but of course I have no right to get a discount.

What are the last 10 games you bought and how much did you spend on each one? You don’t actually have to answer this, cause I wouldn’t know to believe you or not. But I know a few other people who state the same thing as you, yet I see them buying games for $50 to $60 that have less than 75 hours of content. So yeah, I am having a hard time believing the vast majority of the people who are saying the same things as you are as being nothing more than hypocrites.

Another thing that makes no sense. When the game drops in price by $50, nobody complains that a new player can get the game for $50 less than they did, but when the game drops in price by $60, a mere $10 difference, so man people lose their minds over that. They feel “cheated” because of measly $10.