Guild Wars 2

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

pvp and wvw are not part of Hot.
fractal system is also not hot.
3 new legendary weapons, not a new set of weapons
map bonus, i dont think is hot only change

The full set can be included. It’s something that will be released over time with HoT as a requirement in order to acquire them.

you are reading way too far into what they said, especially since you believe in giving anet as much leeway as possible with what they say.

They said they would release more after hot, they didnt say when they would release it.
they also never said there would be a full set before the next expansion.

likewise more guild halls and specializations might end up being in the next expansion. Don’t assume you will get content that anet never said you will get.

They stated that the first handful will be released immediately with the expansion with more to come with subsequent updates. What you’re doing is ignoring everything that they could release because there’s a shred of possibility that they may not release them.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Test.8734:

Ayrilana.1396:

This again? You do realize that plans change over time within companies, right.

Ergo…

Ayrilana.1396:

The full set can be included. It’s something that will be released over time with HoT as a requirement in order to acquire them.

You do realize that plans change over time within companies, right. I also suppose that plans can change again and the full set won’t be released ever, so you saying that people should buy HoT because it will include a full legendary set is at best a mistake, at worst a sign of desperation.

Just because something has a potential to change, regardless of its likelihood, doesn’t mean that you can disregard it. The current plan is to release a few legendary weapons upon release and then the rest through the regular updates. There’s no indication for them to change from this.

I’m also not saying people should buy HoT because it will include the full set. Please read the posts again and not make up what I was saying.

they never said they would release a full set in HOTS lifespan. They only went ahead as far as 3 more, and did they even say when that would happen? Its possible the next 3 could be in another expansion.

They said subsequent updates, not expansion. They also plan to roll out new raids through their regular updates so new legendary weapons will likely be rolled out along with them.

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Test.8734:

Ayrilana.1396:

This again? You do realize that plans change over time within companies, right.

Ergo…

Ayrilana.1396:

The full set can be included. It’s something that will be released over time with HoT as a requirement in order to acquire them.

You do realize that plans change over time within companies, right. I also suppose that plans can change again and the full set won’t be released ever, so you saying that people should buy HoT because it will include a full legendary set is at best a mistake, at worst a sign of desperation.

Just because something has a potential to change, regardless of its likelihood, doesn’t mean that you can disregard it. The current plan is to release a few legendary weapons upon release and then the rest through the regular updates. There’s no indication for them to change from this.

I’m also not saying people should buy HoT because it will include the full set. Please read the posts again and not make up what I was saying.

they never said they would release a full set in HOTS lifespan. They only went ahead as far as 3 more, and did they even say when that would happen? Its possible the next 3 could be in another expansion.

They said subsequent updates, not expansion. They also plan to roll out new raids through their regular updates so new legendary weapons will likely be rolled out along with them.

they put a specific date on raids, saying within the first month or so. They did not put a date on legendary weapons, which doesnt suggest to me that one should EXPECT them to come with raids, or any time soon.

Its certainly possible, but nothing they said says you should expect any more than 3 more, and they have no timeline on those 3.

and they wouldnt say what is next expansion or not at this point, i doubt they know what the next expansion is supposed to have in it at this point.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Test.8734:

Ayrilana.1396:

This again? You do realize that plans change over time within companies, right.

Ergo…

Ayrilana.1396:

The full set can be included. It’s something that will be released over time with HoT as a requirement in order to acquire them.

You do realize that plans change over time within companies, right. I also suppose that plans can change again and the full set won’t be released ever, so you saying that people should buy HoT because it will include a full legendary set is at best a mistake, at worst a sign of desperation.

Just because something has a potential to change, regardless of its likelihood, doesn’t mean that you can disregard it. The current plan is to release a few legendary weapons upon release and then the rest through the regular updates. There’s no indication for them to change from this.

I’m also not saying people should buy HoT because it will include the full set. Please read the posts again and not make up what I was saying.

they never said they would release a full set in HOTS lifespan. They only went ahead as far as 3 more, and did they even say when that would happen? Its possible the next 3 could be in another expansion.

They said subsequent updates, not expansion. They also plan to roll out new raids through their regular updates so new legendary weapons will likely be rolled out along with them.

they put a specific date on raids, saying within the first month or so. They did not put a date on legendary weapons, which doesnt suggest to me that one should EXPECT them to come with raids, or any time soon.

Its certainly possible, but nothing they said says you should expect any more than 3 more, and they have no timeline on those 3.

and they wouldnt say what is next expansion or not at this point, i doubt they know what the next expansion is supposed to have in it at this point.

The specific date was because the first few raids will not be available at launch unlike the first few legendary weapons. What part of releasing more over subsequent updates, or as the story progresseses, do you get that they will not release more?

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Test.8734:

Ayrilana.1396:

This again? You do realize that plans change over time within companies, right.

Ergo…

Ayrilana.1396:

The full set can be included. It’s something that will be released over time with HoT as a requirement in order to acquire them.

You do realize that plans change over time within companies, right. I also suppose that plans can change again and the full set won’t be released ever, so you saying that people should buy HoT because it will include a full legendary set is at best a mistake, at worst a sign of desperation.

Just because something has a potential to change, regardless of its likelihood, doesn’t mean that you can disregard it. The current plan is to release a few legendary weapons upon release and then the rest through the regular updates. There’s no indication for them to change from this.

I’m also not saying people should buy HoT because it will include the full set. Please read the posts again and not make up what I was saying.

they never said they would release a full set in HOTS lifespan. They only went ahead as far as 3 more, and did they even say when that would happen? Its possible the next 3 could be in another expansion.

They said subsequent updates, not expansion. They also plan to roll out new raids through their regular updates so new legendary weapons will likely be rolled out along with them.

they put a specific date on raids, saying within the first month or so. They did not put a date on legendary weapons, which doesnt suggest to me that one should EXPECT them to come with raids, or any time soon.

Its certainly possible, but nothing they said says you should expect any more than 3 more, and they have no timeline on those 3.

and they wouldnt say what is next expansion or not at this point, i doubt they know what the next expansion is supposed to have in it at this point.

The specific date was because the first few raids will not be available at launch unlike the first few legendary weapons. What part of releasing more over subsequent updates, or as the story progresseses, do you get that they will not release more?

release more does not mean release 15 new weapons.
aka a full set.
release more does not mean we will release more in a short time frame.
release more does not mean they will do it this expansion.

they said they would add fractal leaderboards in future updates one year ago
they said they would add precursor quests in future updates 2 years ago
they said they woud expand guild progression in future updates 2 years
they said they woud regularly add new skills and traits 2 years ago
they said SAB would return in future updates a year ago.

future updates means updates at some point in the future. It doesnt mean updates within this expansion, it doesnt mean soon, it means eventually probably. The discussion was about what anet said people are getting with THIS expansion, not what they might get one day down the line.

If they put a date on something, then thats different, but if they arent

If anet said hot of thornes will include a full set of legendary weapons to be released before the next expansion, then one should include it what they are getting for this expansion. They did not say that.

i would expect you, who has gone out of your way to only hold anet to the letter of what they say, not to be suggesting people place expectations on anet based on what they think they mean by a general vague statements.

let’s just wait until they do the next legendary blog/PoI then.

So about the commonly seen argument or the notion of “hours of entertainment per dollar” metric. Like some people use it as argument that you paid $X (say $50) and played for thousands of hours (say 3000 hours), clearly you got your money’s worth.
Personally I think the original/vanilla was worth the price, but I’m not basing my judgement on how many hours I’ve played.
Similarly to how I wouldn’t judge a book to be good based on the number of pages I’ve read and the amount I paid for it.
Or going to a wonderland, getting a day ticket from the time they open and staying there till I’m kicked out – just to get the most hours per dollar of entertainment out of it.
Or I don’t count the number of chews/time I was chewing a bubble gum and the amount of I paid for it, to say if I liked it or justify buying and buying it again.
Or I wouldn’t choose not to go to a movie because it’s 2 hours long and costs $15 while another is 3 hours long and also costs $15. (Nevermind comparing the movies to games…)
This kind of “hours of entertainment per dollar” metric seems to fly way past my head.

On a deeper level… Fulfillment in life isn’t determined by the age of a person.

Only thing i find stupid is how they made so much money by selling the core game, then made more money by adding it for free if you pre-purchase HoT, THEN they go “well, core game is 100% free now”.

May have restrictions, but it’s still a little shady.

Ephemiel.5694:

Only thing i find stupid is how they made so much money by selling the core game, then made more money by adding it for free if you pre-purchase HoT, THEN they go “well, core game is 100% free now”.

May have restrictions, but it’s still a little shady.

Adds more to the argument that the expansion price IS HoT only and core game was bundled with it for free to new accounts, if they are giving the core game away for free now.

Ephemiel.5694:

Only thing i find stupid is how they made so much money by selling the core game, then made more money by adding it for free if you pre-purchase HoT, THEN they go “well, core game is 100% free now”.

May have restrictions, but it’s still a little shady.

Core being included with HoT was never a pre-purchase bonus to begin with. It is included as a base feature of the expansion pack. Right after they released the pre-purchase of the expansion they stated that going forward all expansions will include core and previous expansions for free.

There is nothing shady about any of this.

TJgalon.5012:

Gibson.4036:

I’ll be surprised if I see anyone in that armor.

I am wearing it, it looks neat on the Charr character I just rolled to play with the new guests the game got. I hope they decide to buy HoT too, cause so far, they are having fun getting their feet wet in the game.

Ah, good point. Didn’t think about Charr. Just thought it looked pretty bleh on the human preview.

If I see one more troll saying that people who already bought the game must want new players to pay twice I will loose faith that human beings have great brains. wanting to pay less for just HoT content that was not a part of the core game if you already bought the core and wanting people who get both for what they charge you just for the new stuff is not the same as wanting people to pay more! That is the dumbest thing I ever heard for someone to get that from a sentence saying we should pay less to add the new content to our already paid for accounts!

Ayrilana.1396:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/new-business-model-equality/page/2#post5436673

Thank you. I have not played much lately because I have been too busy working so I’m not up to date with what’s been going on. I heard somewhere that it had gone free to play and you have to pay for the new expansion and I came here to find some answers but again, I’m short on time and can’t sift through everything.

eisberg.2379:

So you want new players to have to pay $100 right now in order to play the game and expansion? All that does it create a big boundary for new players when they see then need to pay $100 to get the same content that everybody else has.

Not at all. I’d much prefer that the legacy users that had to pay $50 get the expansion for free while the new users get the base for free. I think that would even things out a bit. One character slot isn’t worth $50.
I don’t expect everyone to share my opinion, however, I still have the right to have it. I work hard for my money.

MiniEquine.6014:

Basically not at all like that. Every other day somebody will post saying almost the exact same thing as you and they, like you, are incorrect.

If you value any time you spend playing the game at $0 (read: don’t value playing the game at all), then yes. However, you apparently don’t value the game at $0 as you do play the game in lieu of other things. You value your time playing the game more than not playing it.

You bought the game when it first came out for $50. You have almost assuredly spent enough time in game to far surpass what people generally consider $50-worth of entertainment. Now the core game is old and devalued. People get it for free now. I got mine for $10 back in January. This is how the real world works.

There’s a whole lot of assumptions there. Again, I don’t expect everyone to share my opinion, however, I still have the right to have it.

I am just wondering if at the next expansion it will be the same, where people who own it has to pay 50$ again and new player will get base Guild wars 2 and HoT + the new expansion for 50$.
and when the next expansion is gonna be, maybe 3 years again, i guess that would be to bad at all, but if it becomes a yearly thing, that is another story.

It just came to my attention tonight after pondering for month’s on end on wether I should prepurchase the expansion I decided to go ahead and buy it. Little did I know that the exchange rates at the moment are out the roof what would normally be a few dollars difference between USD to AUD conversion is no longer so. The standard edition which is priced at 49.99 USD is a whooping $71.00 AUD that’s just ridiculous and unheard of for a game expansion. ArenaNet has created a situation here by their refusal to produce physical copies of this upcoming expansion forcing countries like Australia to pay these outrageous exchange rates. I initially defended ArenaNet when the price was first announced and people said $50 was to much well now I regret that. This is unacceptable ArenaNet and demands you attention no one in their right mind should have to pay $70 for an expansion.

uzo.9125:

I am just wondering if at the next expansion it will be the same, where people who own it has to pay 50$ again and new player will get base Guild wars 2 and HoT + the new expansion for 50$.
and when the next expansion is gonna be, maybe 3 years again, i guess that would be to bad at all, but if it becomes a yearly thing, that is another story.

It will be based on their announcement a few months ago.

MsNineTailz.9508:

ArenaNet has created a situation here by their refusal to produce physical copies of this upcoming expansion forcing countries like Australia to pay these outrageous exchange rates.

There is a physical pre-purchase edition and there will be a physical standard edition at launch. Taking quick look at EBGames, $80 seems to be the regular price for new PC releases and $100 for consoles. For comparison, HoT is $10 cheaper than a new release in the US.

uzo.9125:

I am just wondering if at the next expansion it will be the same, where people who own it has to pay 50$ again and new player will get base Guild wars 2 and HoT + the new expansion for 50$.

Keep in mind that new accounts will be missing the living story. Assuming 2-3 seasons per expansion, those that end up getting HoT for free will end up having to pay the price of HoT anyways if they want the full experience.

Zero Day.2594:

So about the commonly seen argument or the notion of “hours of entertainment per dollar” metric. Like some people use it as argument that you paid $X (say $50) and played for thousands of hours (say 3000 hours), clearly you got your money’s worth.
Personally I think the original/vanilla was worth the price, but I’m not basing my judgement on how many hours I’ve played.
Similarly to how I wouldn’t judge a book to be good based on the number of pages I’ve read and the amount I paid for it.
Or going to a wonderland, getting a day ticket from the time they open and staying there till I’m kicked out – just to get the most hours per dollar of entertainment out of it.
Or I don’t count the number of chews/time I was chewing a bubble gum and the amount of I paid for it, to say if I liked it or justify buying and buying it again.
Or I wouldn’t choose not to go to a movie because it’s 2 hours long and costs $15 while another is 3 hours long and also costs $15. (Nevermind comparing the movies to games…)
This kind of “hours of entertainment per dollar” metric seems to fly way past my head.

On a deeper level… Fulfillment in life isn’t determined by the age of a person.

It’s not a poor metric to use. The argument is that what you spend your time doing is what you value more than that which you don’t spend your time doing.

For example, say you work a 40hr/week job that you don’t particularly like. The reason you continue to work for it is because you value what it gives you more than you value what you would have without it; money. If you could get by without having to work that job, you would likely fill your time with something more fulfilling or entertaining.

Similar thing with entertainment. You have a limited amount of time on this Earth and you allocate how you spend it to different things. A game that costs $50 and gives you 3000 hours of entertainment that you enjoy is extremely efficient at providing you that entertainment. A 2 hr movie for $15 is, relatively, extremely inefficient at delivering entertainment, but you may still enjoy it all the same. Perceived value and actual value may vary greatly as you may feel you loved the movie more than the game, but you have devoted 2998 more hours of your life playing the game than watching the movie, so you value that more, ultimately.

Healix.5819:

Keep in mind that new accounts will be missing the living story. Assuming 2-3 seasons per expansion, those that end up getting HoT for free will end up having to pay the price of HoT anyways if they want the full experience.

not all veterans got season 2 for free. So it’s completely possible that you bought the game, bought full season 2 and on top of that have to buy HoT.

Kittiko.2318:

MiniEquine.6014:

Basically not at all like that. Every other day somebody will post saying almost the exact same thing as you and they, like you, are incorrect.

If you value any time you spend playing the game at $0 (read: don’t value playing the game at all), then yes. However, you apparently don’t value the game at $0 as you do play the game in lieu of other things. You value your time playing the game more than not playing it.

You bought the game when it first came out for $50. You have almost assuredly spent enough time in game to far surpass what people generally consider $50-worth of entertainment. Now the core game is old and devalued. People get it for free now. I got mine for $10 back in January. This is how the real world works.

There’s a whole lot of assumptions there. Again, I don’t expect everyone to share my opinion, however, I still have the right to have it.

The only assumptions are how much you actually paid for the game and how much time you spent playing it. The rest of the statements are not assumptions though.

It would be impossible for you to value the game at $0 on a personal level because you paid money for it. Even if you perceived $0 value of the game, you play the game instead of doing other things so you value your game-playing time more than not. The core game is older and devalued, and Anet decided it is now $0 from their store.

You have every right to your opinions, but stating incorrect things about value and pricing is not an opinion. It could be your opinion that the game is overpriced, for example. What would be unfair is if you got HoT for less or nothing when a new player had to pay the same price, which is the exact opposite of what you stated.

MiniEquine.6014:

What would be unfair is if you got HoT for less or nothing when a new player had to pay the same price, which is the exact opposite of what you stated.

no.. That would be how most MMOs work.

For example FFXIV. Two years ago it went for 30£. Today it’s 10£. The expansion pack costs 30£. There are bundles for a newly starting player, but they’re still 40£. So while the veteran payed 60£ total, a new player still had to pay 40£ for base game and expansion. And yes, the price will continue falling over time, but base game + expansions will never be the same price as the newest expansion.

HoT is seen as that kind of bundle, because it also includes base game. It’s also more expensive than expansions for a lot of other MMOs. So it’s only natural to perceive that if you’re buying JUST the expansion it should be cheaper. And it doesn’t feel really fair that you can’t discount the base game in it.

Mirta.5029:

MiniEquine.6014:

What would be unfair is if you got HoT for less or nothing when a new player had to pay the same price, which is the exact opposite of what you stated.

no.. That would be how most MMOs work.

For example FFXIV. Two years ago it went for 30£. Today it’s 10£. The expansion pack costs 30£. There are bundles for a newly starting player, but they’re still 40£. So while the veteran payed 60£ total, a new player still had to pay 40£ for base game and expansion. And yes, the price will continue falling over time, but base game + expansions will never be the same price as the newest expansion.

HoT is seen as that kind of bundle, because it also includes base game. It’s also more expensive than expansions for a lot of other MMOs. So it’s only natural to perceive that if you’re buying JUST the expansion it should be cheaper. And it doesn’t feel really fair that you can’t discount the base game in it.

FF XIV can’t be compared because of its monthly fee. You are automatically spending nearly 6-7x more on that game every year than you are on GW2. After two years it’s 14-15x as much money. WoW can also not be compared for the exact same reason. Those MMOs make most of their money off of the subscription, not selling the game itself.

Mirta.5029:

MiniEquine.6014:

What would be unfair is if you got HoT for less or nothing when a new player had to pay the same price, which is the exact opposite of what you stated.

no.. That would be how most MMOs work.

For example FFXIV. Two years ago it went for 30£. Today it’s 10£. The expansion pack costs 30£. There are bundles for a newly starting player, but they’re still 40£. So while the veteran payed 60£ total, a new player still had to pay 40£ for base game and expansion. And yes, the price will continue falling over time, but base game + expansions will never be the same price as the newest expansion.

HoT is seen as that kind of bundle, because it also includes base game. It’s also more expensive than expansions for a lot of other MMOs. So it’s only natural to perceive that if you’re buying JUST the expansion it should be cheaper. And it doesn’t feel really fair that you can’t discount the base game in it.

Other games you are thinking about also have a subscription model, either required or optional with great benefits/advantages. So it is not a fair comparison at all. They can afford to have a cheaper price for current customer vs new customers because they have a better revenue stream. If GW2 had an optional subscription model or a required subscription, I am sure they would sell the expansion for cheaper.

MiniEquine.6014:

FF XIV can’t be compared because of its monthly fee. You are automatically spending nearly 6-7x more on that game every year than you are on GW2. After two years it’s 14-15x as much money. WoW can also not be compared for the exact same reason. Those MMOs make most of their money off of the subscription, not selling the game itself.

in that case as we are F2P let’s compare to other F2P games.

- newest SWOTOR expansion $19.99 USD
- Rift NightMare Tide, £18.99 to access equipment from that expansion pack, base content for free to everyone. Then to catch up to everyone else you’ll have to spend £25.99 + £18.49, to have all the possible classes.
- Tera Fate of Arun, free for everyone

B2P:

- The Secret World costs 54,99€ for anyone that wants to start right now and have all the content, 29,99€ for just the base game, 79,97€ + 29.99€ for anyone that was purchasing all the DLCs and the base game separately. Once again, new players do not get all the DLCs with the purchase of the base game.

Not a single other game has their new DLC price as high as GW2 HoT (The Secret World DLCs are 24€ each) AND not a single one of them give everything but the newest expansion to a new player for free while forcing the veteran to pay oh so much more. So it would make just so much more sense if Anet also sold HoTs unbundled.

eisberg.2379:

Other games you are thinking about also have a subscription model, either required or optional with great benefits/advantages. So it is not a fair comparison at all. They can afford to have a cheaper price for current customer vs new customers because they have a better revenue stream. If GW2 had an optional subscription model or a required subscription, I am sure they would sell the expansion for cheaper.

I honestly have better value for my money playing those games with optional sub and not subbing as pretty much not a single one of them is even as bad restriction wise as GW2 free account is (except perhaps SWOTOR). Meaning that perhaps GW2 should get an optional sub, seeing as right now they’re botching up both the expansion price, leaving many veterans unhappy and F2P rights as a lot of people would have far more freedom in for example Tera even.

Mirta.5029:

eisberg.2379:

Other games you are thinking about also have a subscription model, either required or optional with great benefits/advantages. So it is not a fair comparison at all. They can afford to have a cheaper price for current customer vs new customers because they have a better revenue stream. If GW2 had an optional subscription model or a required subscription, I am sure they would sell the expansion for cheaper.

I honestly have better value for my money playing those games with optional sub and not subbing as pretty much not a single one of them is even as bad restriction wise as GW2 free account is (except perhaps SWOTOR). Meaning that perhaps GW2 should get an optional sub, seeing as right now they’re botching up both the expansion price, leaving many veterans unhappy and F2P rights as a lot of people would have far more freedom in for example Tera even.

Again, you are comparing games with an optional sub, which means they have a better revenue stream, which would be a consideration when it comes to expansion pricing.
They are not botching anything up at all, more like people feeling entitled to something they have no right to feel in the first place.

It was always and in every game i played that first to buy spends most money on it,and later everything goes cheaper including game store.
I was happy i bought Gw@ at the time i did and is worth avery single cent i spent on this game even if i only play PvP so i lose a lot of content in PvE,but…

To pay additional 50euro few specializations, its bit to much for me, and its easier to find new f2p game have fun in discovering somthing new,
than to pay and have 4/5th of the game alredy known for me this is just a patch they do every now and then.

Further more i stoped playing for more than a year due to Anet incompetence to solve some balance isues in PvP ,constant dc ,afk ,rewards in PvP beeing for Pve players, only one build per class…

So after a year and somthin of a pause :

Still you get unstable servers -ppl dcing, no will or effort to balnce classes each class stil has just one if they are lucky 2 competitive PvP builds.

Build diversity is even less then waht was at the beggining:(

And PvP rewards where you get a chest, in side of a chest is a pouch,
in side of a pouch is another chest and elixir, in side of a elixir is a chest and a pouch, and in side of a puoch that was in a aelixir ,wich was in a chest you get ,gues what another chest.

And cherry for this chest -puch- elixir cake klicking kitten for ever is:
you get a showel and a key, to go and digg in a PvE map,
i mean some1 is crazy here and im sure im not…

Or maybe i am if you expect me to pay 50e for just a patch and do this again.

Further more you promised a cosmetic elite spec which will not affect, PvP and ppl with just basci game wiil be competative,my kitten!

With all above said it was stil worth many i paid but i will not pay for same thing twice, and you can call it expansion or a patch or how ever you like .

It looks to me that now is prefect time to buy gw1 it seams, and just enjoy new game:)

Mirta.5029:

MiniEquine.6014:

FF XIV can’t be compared because of its monthly fee. You are automatically spending nearly 6-7x more on that game every year than you are on GW2. After two years it’s 14-15x as much money. WoW can also not be compared for the exact same reason. Those MMOs make most of their money off of the subscription, not selling the game itself.

in that case as we are F2P let’s compare to other F2P games.

- newest SWOTOR expansion $19.99 USD
- Rift NightMare Tide, £18.99 to access equipment from that expansion pack, base content for free to everyone. Then to catch up to everyone else you’ll have to spend £25.99 + £18.49, to have all the possible classes.
- Tera Fate of Arun, free for everyone

B2P:

- The Secret World costs 54,99€ for anyone that wants to start right now and have all the content, 29,99€ for just the base game, 79,97€ + 29.99€ for anyone that was purchasing all the DLCs and the base game separately. Once again, new players do not get all the DLCs with the purchase of the base game.

Not a single other game has their new DLC price as high as GW2 HoT (The Secret World DLCs are 24€ each) AND not a single one of them give everything but the newest expansion to a new player for free while forcing the veteran to pay oh so much more. So it would make just so much more sense if Anet also sold HoTs unbundled.

You just said Secret World “costs 54,99€ for anyone that wants to start right now and have all the content”, which is more expensive than GW2:HoT is for more players; 79,97€ + 29.99€ for anyone that was purchasing all the DLCs and the base game separately, which is more than GW2 core game plus HoT separately as well. I don’t think the price comparisons are quite as farfetched as you are making them seem. New players to GW2 don’t get the Living World S2 for free either and must pay $20 for that if they want it or save up ~350G to buy it in-game.

Just a quick question..If I prepurchase now with the 44€ version, do I get the free character slot or it is included only in the more expansive bundles?

isendel.5049:

Just a quick question..If I prepurchase now with the 44€ version, do I get the free character slot or it is included only in the more expansive bundles?

You will get the additional character slot, the other 2 more expensive bundles get 2 extra character slots in total.

eisberg.2379:

Mirta.5029:

MiniEquine.6014:

What would be unfair is if you got HoT for less or nothing when a new player had to pay the same price, which is the exact opposite of what you stated.

no.. That would be how most MMOs work.

For example FFXIV. Two years ago it went for 30£. Today it’s 10£. The expansion pack costs 30£. There are bundles for a newly starting player, but they’re still 40£. So while the veteran payed 60£ total, a new player still had to pay 40£ for base game and expansion. And yes, the price will continue falling over time, but base game + expansions will never be the same price as the newest expansion.

HoT is seen as that kind of bundle, because it also includes base game. It’s also more expensive than expansions for a lot of other MMOs. So it’s only natural to perceive that if you’re buying JUST the expansion it should be cheaper. And it doesn’t feel really fair that you can’t discount the base game in it.

Other games you are thinking about also have a subscription model, either required or optional with great benefits/advantages. So it is not a fair comparison at all. They can afford to have a cheaper price for current customer vs new customers because they have a better revenue stream. If GW2 had an optional subscription model or a required subscription, I am sure they would sell the expansion for cheaper.

Incorrect, look at the financial releases, gw2 has a better revenue stream than most f2p, and all but the top MMOs . in fact they were ahead of ffxiv until ffxiv slowly surpassed them.
They only began to drop recently, primarily because their service was getting less and less compelling. Which would happen no matter what your business plan is.

People need to stop thinking f2p is doing you a favor, it is a different business plan, with different strengths and weaknesses, but it is not inferior revenue if you know what you are doing. You also are never getting it for nothing, you are giving up paying monthly in exchange for f2p game design.

like
inventory you have to buy
less cosmetic items in game
inferior/inconvienient game design
slower progress wo boosters.
out of game gamble boxes
rewards designed to support the economy/gem economy.
revenue earned split between cash shop design and game design.

gw2 has one of the most balanced f2p offerings imo, but its still an f2p design. You play ffxiv you get charachter hair changes for a fixed gold cost,
every armor/clothes is earnable in game
tons of inventory and an armory system for instant gear swaps/job changes out of combat
economy is designed to support reward design
revenue earned completely focused on game design.

is this worth 15 a month? thats subjective, but regardless thats the price you pay when you play f2p. F2p makes money by monetizing things that other people would rather spend a standard fee to have.

moral of the story; gem shop revenue is compared to subscription revenue, box cost compares to box cost

edit look at the top mmo games earning from 2014 (btw swtor made about 100 milion a year, and gw2 was probably also around 100 mil)
http://www.swtorstrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2014_1022-top10mmo-final.jpg

the only subscription game in the top 10, is WoW. so no, f2p/b2p doesnt equal lower revenue streams.

F2P won’t harm the game financially and is likely to improve it. When you don’t have vertical progression and your store is full of outfits, finishers, skins and minis you’re onto a winner. Haven’t played much over the last few months but if I got my credit card out I would have a blast “completing” my characters.

Anet are onto a winner here.

uzo.9125:

I am just wondering if at the next expansion it will be the same, where people who own it has to pay 50$ again and new player will get base Guild wars 2 and HoT + the new expansion for 50$.

Keep in mind that new accounts will be missing the living story. Assuming 2-3 seasons per expansion, those that end up getting HoT for free will end up having to pay the price of HoT anyways if they want the full experience.[/quote]

That just sucks for me, since i have been away on holidays or dug in schoolwork whenever the living story was there and only did very few things in either of them, never got to do any of the major things

heres the what you can figure out once you put all the evidence together.

gw2 could charge whatever they wanted for heart of thornes, from free up until 50 dolars. Their current business model is focused on the gem shop for revenue. The primary purpose of expansions in this model is to re spark interest, and present a growing theme park. Living story was not bringing the same return in interest as companies commonly see with expansions,
thus their revenue was slowly draining down (though it was pretty decent for the market) without the burst that expansions provide.

So what happened? well first you have to understand new players are more valuable in an f2p system, they have more things to spend money on, and they require less new development.

So, basically they decided to make the game more accessible for new players, and try to re monetize old players. They decided to give the f2p player more free game than competitors, but charge them more for the premium game.

they could have made the base game cost 10-20 dollars, and the expansion cost 40-30, but gem shop thrives on volume of players (this is why most cash shop games go f2p) and best way to monetize veterans is with content/experienced end game content)
so they chose to split the costs in a way that could theoretically give them the biggest bang for their buck.

charge experienced players a lot of money, they are hooked, and charge new players nothing, to get them access to the shop, and increase their chance of becoming an experienced player.

problems with this strategy?
the price point, and model may alienate experienced players
theoretical benefit?
they may shift towards more content creation per buck to entice experienced players.

experienced players arent really needed, even if every player stays f2p and never buys the newest release, as long as those releases generate interest(that player spike), and f2p continue to purchase from the gem shop at a decent rate, earnings willl be high

biggest problems with their execution? the price point was too high, and the content offered too light. Make no mistake though, they will still profit pretty well, its just they wont make as much money as they could have with either a lower price point, or more content.
Its possible though that this too is part of their plan, since updates will add to their content, and its likely prices will drop at times due to sales.

It sure seems like Hot is offering a lot to us, more then I see mention and on top of that, stuff not mention yet, but is coming. There also all the future updates to come that will have content and who knows what else. The price might be a little steep compare to other, but i feel the price is a bargain on the fun.

As someone who was here from the very beginning I feel a cheated.

A FTP player can join the game for zero dollar investment, but has to purchase HoT to receive that content. Okay, no argument there until we look at how unfair this is to veterans.

Original GW2 was what $60 for standard? HoT is $49 for standard. So basically A FTP player can get everything for $49, yet veterans have to pay a total of roughly $110?

Seems to me veterans should be getting HoT for free. Correct my logic any way you see fit. I’d like to be enlightened.

Free player have a lot of restriction on account. Also free player do not get the 3 years you have had of playing the game. Plus the living story content and items and rewards you got over 3 years. Would you give up the 3 years of fun you have with GW2 for account that is free with a lot of restrictions?

RLD.7439:

As someone who was here from the very beginning I feel a cheated.

A FTP player can join the game for zero dollar investment, but has to purchase HoT to receive that content. Okay, no argument there until we look at how unfair this is to veterans.

Original GW2 was what $60 for standard? HoT is $49 for standard. So basically A FTP player can get everything for $49, yet veterans have to pay a total of roughly $110?

Seems to me veterans should be getting HoT for free. Correct my logic any way you see fit. I’d like to be enlightened.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/new-business-model-equality/page/2#post5436673

Free account restrictions:

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/95982157-Account-types-Free-Core-HoT

Any way? Okay.

Original GW2 was $80 for the Digital Deluxe Preorder. I got what I wanted.
HoT Pre-Purchase? Laid down $100

Why? Because I wanted them Then and now With the stuff they came with. You’re not new to this song/dance/party but I’ll humor you.

Bought it then – have played over 10k hours. New person walks up and goes “This is new” and for them it is new. They’re at least 10K AP they cannot has behind the curve. They’re at a heavy disadvantage to getting into the game and really taking the wrapping paper off it. And you want to quibble about paying $60 3 years ago?

(Points at the Steam business model) This exists. Software gets older – prices go down. These new people missed sales, items, a shot at buying Bunny Ears (Full Ham time on Appeal to Emotion) Living Story S1, Living Story S2 when it was new and fresh and exciting!!! And now you want to be disgruntled at these brave souls looking for something new to do with their free time because the paywall of even Looking at the majesty of Tyria is gone?

TL;DR: I welcome the new Play for Frees and hope they stick with it, even if they don’t buy in ASAP, just so they can know the awesome game that so many “Vets” are taking for granted. :P

3 years of fun for 60$? Yes please.

All games reduce in price as time passes. If you buy a video game when it comes out it costs $60 dollars. If you wait a year or two you can usually get it for $10. This doesn’t mean the people who bought the game when it first came out deserve a refund it’s just the way the economics work.

Rather than doing what they did, they probably should have made the expansion $30 and the original game $20. As for the FTP accounts, maybe they should have put a level cap on that rather than have an entire class of player that can get to 80 and will probably never buy the game. But I don’t have the data on this, I’m not sure what the buy in rate is for FTP, my impression is they go from one FTP game to the next.

All that said, GW2 is still an incredible value and anyway you look at it ArenaNet is offering alot of game for very little price.

The core game is 3 years old. What they are selling now if HoT. A lot of people would be willing to try the game but the $50 price to buy the core/expansion is to high a barrier just for a trial. Giving the core away for free pulls them in and ANet hopes that enough will then like the game enough to purchase the expansion.

When you consider that vanilla Tyria is 3 years old and probably not going to get many (or any) updates any more but remain in the state it is now, it’s arguably not worth more than the $10 it was before this f2p change. If it’s only worth $10 then why not make it free and really pull in the people (and future purchasers of the expansion).

Edit: in addition, the f2p are not getting the worth of all those 40 updates and the Living story we got. All they are getting is Tyria as it is right this minute. They aren’t getting near what we vets got.

Define “veteran”. 3 years? 2 years 364 days? 2 years? a year and a half? Since the beginning, played once, never returned?

Getting away from the fact that games and things in general go down in price, how do you work out who is getting it for free and who isn’t? Where is the line drawn?

I’ve been here since headstart, I’m not seeing any valid argument for me getting HoT for free. I have 3 years of fun, experiences, achievements, collections, items, skins screenshots etc etc that the incoming Froobs wont be getting

RLD.7439:

As someone who was here from the very beginning I feel a cheated.

A FTP player can join the game for zero dollar investment, but has to purchase HoT to receive that content. Okay, no argument there until we look at how unfair this is to veterans.

Original GW2 was what $60 for standard? HoT is $49 for standard. So basically A FTP player can get everything for $49, yet veterans have to pay a total of roughly $110?

Seems to me veterans should be getting HoT for free. Correct my logic any way you see fit. I’d like to be enlightened.

I agree with you, wholeheartly, but lots of people will bring up the fact you had hours of fun with those $60 and thus you should be more than happy to shell another $50 for the game when others will get full content for much less. There is nothing much to say, Mods and Community managers only shows up to support the ones happily accepting this, NEVER showing a word of understanding for our concerns.

The only solution is to drop the game, spread the word, inform the others that ANet stops caring for you once they get your money in the bag and the only important customers for them are the potential new ones.

Super Adventure Box

Heylel.2109:

RLD.7439:

As someone who was here from the very beginning I feel a cheated.

A FTP player can join the game for zero dollar investment, but has to purchase HoT to receive that content. Okay, no argument there until we look at how unfair this is to veterans.

Original GW2 was what $60 for standard? HoT is $49 for standard. So basically A FTP player can get everything for $49, yet veterans have to pay a total of roughly $110?

Seems to me veterans should be getting HoT for free. Correct my logic any way you see fit. I’d like to be enlightened.

I agree with you, wholeheartly, but lots of people will bring up the fact you had hours of fun with those $60 and thus you should be more than happy to shell another $50 for the game when others will get full content for much less. There is nothing much to say, Mods and Community managers only shows up to support the ones happily accepting this, NEVER showing a word of understanding for our concerns.

The only solution is to drop the game, spread the word, inform the others that ANet stops caring for you once they get your money in the bag and the only important customers for them are the potential new ones.

You mean like every company ever? That’s how capitalism works? If it’s such a big deal to you, why didn’t you wait? Why did you jump at the chance to have it. Every game ever has worked this way. Would you expect to buy original WoW for $50? Of course not, that’s stupid.

If you really want something you buy it now at the price it is. You know full wel it will go down in price. When an expansion comes out even more so. In this case it went down to zero. And if another expansion comes out HoT will drop to zero too. So if you don’t want to pay for it, then wait. It will be a long time, but it will happen.

You’re not going to wait, though, because you want to play it now. If you want to play it now, then you have to pay the now price. You don’t get to pay the some day price now to play now. That’s not how it works, never has been, and never will be.

As someone who was here from the very beginning I feel I got more than my money worth of entertainment 6,503 hrs to date and got to play content that all these F2P accounts missed out on.

Do you feel cheated after going to the movie theater when that same movie comes out on TV year later for free?

The issue here is some players are having the feeling of entitlement!

Dear lord delete this thread… sense of entitlement is rampant nowdays…

this like buying a 2015 car with standard features and complaining next year that you didnt get one for free cuz they upgraded the feature list or some kitten….

you sheeple are ridiculous!

As someone with over 8k hours put into this game I find it sad that so called veterans are feeling ripped off..