Guild Wars 2

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I don’t see anything on the Revenant being overpowered so far. What I do notice is that everything is good. I didn’t see anything on there where I thought “well, that will hardly ever be used.”

Unlike all 8 professions right now.

Both Banish Enchantment and Unyielding Anguish seem ridiculously strong. One to spam confusion on target while removing all the boons, the other is a pretty overpowered peel (on paper). Not to mention Inspiring Reinforcement is 329785637895638 times better than Hallowed Ground.
From what we’ve seen so far, Revenants seem really weak in some aspecs but really strong in some others. We should expect a heavy balance pass shortly after released.

Dirame.8521:

Zoltreez.6435:

Dirame.8521:

leman.7682:

Test.8734:

leman.7682:

Could we see future reworks of exisitng professions to make them on par with Revenant or should everyone just reroll the new profession on day one and forget about the past?

Specializations.

How do specializations solve the problem? From what we know, they take something away from a profession and give something new…

They don’t add cool animations and effects, they don’t make badly designed skills/weapons like necro axe/dagger, ranger sword/axe or warrior rifle good out of the sudden. Why? Because these weapons are based on simple tech like spam one to do dmg, press 2 to knock back, etc.

Not solving the problem.

Lol okay. Shove your presents in the bin when you haven’t even taken a look inside just because the kid next door got a Car, why don’t you.

you dodged the question Leman have a good point there.

I think I answered the question. He feels that Specialization won’t help when he hasn’t seen or heard or played anything of them. That’s silly to me.

If all the changes and upgrades will be confined to the Specializations, then rather obviously they won’t help the base classes at all. I’m surprised that you even think otherwise.

Unless the core professions will get reworked thoroughly, they will still remain outdated. All the Specializations might do for them is make using specs obligatory (which would be bad).

Everyone appears to be under the assumption that the current professions will not get updated (outside of specializations). Knee jerk reactions like this is nothing new so just sit back, relax, and wait until more information is released about the current professions.

Khenzy.9348:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I don’t see anything on the Revenant being overpowered so far. What I do notice is that everything is good. I didn’t see anything on there where I thought “well, that will hardly ever be used.”

Unlike all 8 professions right now.

Both Banish Enchantment and Unyielding Anguish seem ridiculously strong. One to spam confusion on target while removing all the boons, the other is a pretty overpowered peel (on paper). Not to mention Inspiring Reinforcement is 329785637895638 times better than Hallowed Ground.
From what we’ve seen so far, Revenants seem really weak in some aspecs but really strong in some others. We should expect a heavy balance pass shortly after released.

You’re right, I partially redact my statement.

Banish Enchantment is the most likely to get nerfed (honestly, it just needs a cooldown). Removing 10 boons and stacking 25 confusion is possible with just this skill and ~3 seconds. Not really a reason to use other skills, as it’s not difficult to get 2 conditions + vulnerability on you and that alone will kill people fast. However, doing so means you have to spend at least 10 seconds using no skills but your auto-attack beforehand. That’s a pretty big risk for that sort of play.

Unyielding Anguish can be spammed 3 times in succession, which can be frustrating, but honestly, it’s more situational and not as terrible.

Dirame.8521:

How do you know it won’t change the weakness of the profession when they’ve said some specializations would alter the core mechanics of a class? Now I’m not saying it will, I’m just asking you how you know it won’t.

In my opinion, all you’ve got is assumptions and theories, not fact. And you’re not even sure the Mesmer is only get a Shield. Every other class that we know of, (engie, Necro, Ranger and possibly Guardian) is getting 5 skills, just because you only saw a shield does not mean they aren’t getting something else.

I haven’t said anything about weaknesses or strengths of core professions. I’ve said that their design of skills and traits is lacking. We have countless uninteresting traits and skills which aren’t being used at all or are being used to maximise damage (+%damage) but don’t change anything. Now compare that to revenant. That’s the whole point of OP. And it doesn’t matter if specialisations add something new because the core of the professions isn’t touched.

rotten.9753:

Dirame.8521:

How do you know it won’t change the weakness of the profession when they’ve said some specializations would alter the core mechanics of a class? Now I’m not saying it will, I’m just asking you how you know it won’t.

In my opinion, all you’ve got is assumptions and theories, not fact. And you’re not even sure the Mesmer is only get a Shield. Every other class that we know of, (engie, Necro, Ranger and possibly Guardian) is getting 5 skills, just because you only saw a shield does not mean they aren’t getting something else.

I haven’t said anything about weaknesses or strengths of core professions. I’ve said that their design of skills and traits is lacking. We have countless uninteresting traits and skills which aren’t being used at all or are being used to maximise damage (+%damage) but don’t change anything. Now compare that to revenant. That’s the whole point of OP. And it doesn’t matter if specialisations add something new because the core of the professions isn’t touched.

I think you need to take a second look at the Revenant traits. If what the Revenant has is what you want, some great traits but A LOT of passive RNG, then I think you’re looking at the class with rose-tinted shiny wrapper glasses.

Or actually may be that’s just what you like and in that case, I can’t begrudge you for that.

I think we shouldnt take the revenant traits too seriously yet. I mean there is currently an adept minor that gives far more healing then a grandmaster. And it is also more reliable then the granmaster trait (using energy compared to getting hit)…

Caeledh.5437:

I’m sorry I can’t point you to the specific quote but they have said that some abilities in existing professions – not just the new specs – are going to be reworked to take advantage of the new tech.

Relax

if this is the case, then great! I really hope so. HoTs simply cant launch with crap like ranger’s Whirling Defense/shouts/spirits/traps, guardian’s torch skills/spirit weapons/signets, most of necro weapons, and other dated, bad mechanics. this is my primary concern about the xpac….don’t want old traits and skills to get left in the dust.

in all honesty, I think they need to sit down look at every single trait, weapon and utility, and ask themselves "is this useful? what is its purpose? is it fun to use?, and just refresh those skills accordingly.

Dirame.8521:

I think you need to take a second look at the Revenant traits. If what the Revenant has is what you want, some great traits but A LOT of passive RNG, then I think you’re looking at the class with rose-tinted shiny wrapper glasses.

Or actually may be that’s just what you like and in that case, I can’t begrudge you for that.

Check necro traits and tell me that’s what you want instead.

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

Unfortunately we’ve seen this before though.

Necromancers have been at the bottom of the pyramid in PvE since the game came out. Rangers, until recently, had the same issue in WvW, and arguably still do in PvP.

I think people’s concern is that the well-off classes will get specializations that make their class more dynamic with entirely new ways to play them. The worse-off classes will merely get specializations to fill in the gaps that have been discussed numerous times over the past 3 years and whether these specializations will compete with the others is anyone’s guess.

I imagine the goal is to have 9 fully functional classes with 9 seperate, but also fully functional specializations? A Ranger should still exist and be viable when compared to a Druid for example.

The classes aren’t really starting in an equal and competitive level going into the expansion. We’re worried what will happen after it gets here.

ps. And it’s also worth noting for the people that think specializations will solve all the woes being discussed in this thread… the revenant isn’t a specialization. It’s the base class. Who knows what its specialization will be capable of.

pps. Gaile, is it feasible for ANet to select the class specialists and have each of them coordinate a class CDI on their own specific forum so maybe ANet could get a clear picture of where players feel their respective class is? And would this information be able to be disseminated before the release of the expansion? Given what you know of the Ranger CDI and the time invested with that.

rotten.9753:

Dirame.8521:

I think you need to take a second look at the Revenant traits. If what the Revenant has is what you want, some great traits but A LOT of passive RNG, then I think you’re looking at the class with rose-tinted shiny wrapper glasses.

Or actually may be that’s just what you like and in that case, I can’t begrudge you for that.

Check necro traits and tell me that’s what you want instead.

I’m not saying the old traits are all good. Just that you guys seem to be putting the Revee on this high pedestal that you shouldn’t really. Especially when you haven’t experienced it to it’s full extent.
You can say “Oh these traits sound amazing!” but that’s what we were all saying before launch and look where we are now.

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

I don’t believe ArenaNet would use power creep as a selling point, but they wouldn’t be the first company to do so if they did.

Lol the class isnt even done yet and pleople are still complaining
Not only that but you ahve no idea how the other classes are going to work when the expansion is out
Please wait till the expansion is out before you complain.

jacim.5904:

Lol the class isnt even done yet and pleople are still complaining
Not only that but you ahve no idea how the other classes are going to work when the expansion is out
Please wait till the expansion is out before you complain.

People always do that. I bet there forums will be flooded with qq about revenants on launch cause they wont have any idea how to deal with it (see bullrush hb warrior). Its always easier to complain and nerf somehting into ground rathen than adapt.

Its will be funny when it turn out that specializations are stronger than revenant itself.

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

I don’t think the concern is about power creep so much as it is that the Revenant’s choices (that we’ve seen so far) are all good. For the stuff we’ve seen, everything Revenants have is useful and is interesting. For all existing professions, this isn’t the case. Useless traits and skills (or even weapons) dot all eight current professions, and it’s disheartening to hear that things like Slow and Resistance will show up “in specializations” but not hear anything about updates to existing stuff in order to make existing professions more interesting or rounded.

Basically, it’s bringing up the question of “when the specializations and Revenant are better designed and cooler, what reason is there to play a core profession?”

Atherakhia.4086:

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

Unfortunately we’ve seen this before though.

Necromancers have been at the bottom of the pyramid in PvE since the game came out. Rangers, until recently, had the same issue in WvW, and arguably still do in PvP.

I think people’s concern is that the well-off classes will get specializations that make their class more dynamic with entirely new ways to play them. The worse-off classes will merely get specializations to fill in the gaps that have been discussed numerous times over the past 3 years and whether these specializations will compete with the others is anyone’s guess.

I imagine the goal is to have 9 fully functional classes with 9 seperate, but also fully functional specializations? A Ranger should still exist and be viable when compared to a Druid for example.

The classes aren’t really starting in an equal and competitive level going into the expansion. We’re worried what will happen after it gets here.

ps. And it’s also worth noting for the people that think specializations will solve all the woes being discussed in this thread… the revenant isn’t a specialization. It’s the base class. Who knows what its specialization will be capable of.

pps. Gaile, is it feasible for ANet to select the class specialists and have each of them coordinate a class CDI on their own specific forum so maybe ANet could get a clear picture of where players feel their respective class is? And would this information be able to be disseminated before the release of the expansion? Given what you know of the Ranger CDI and the time invested with that.

These disadvantages you speak of are not shown in game, you need to experience more of the game, play more classes it seems, to see that some classes are better against others, not everyone can easily beat anyone else. As well PvE content, it matters on what you care about, meta is meta, if your class cant be a part of it, whatever, but it doesnt mean that the class is useless or unable to complete things. Ive played every class to 80 and done almost any aspect of the game with almost any class and Ive never felt like anything was underpowered, just that some classes take a different approach and when up against certain things dont do as well, but the same classes that do well in those situations do not do well in others.

The classes are on an even field as is, but you can’t expect them all to do well in all situations, they each have their preferences so to say and their weaknesses, just like the revenant and all specializations will have. Calm down.

Trock Bronze.9625:

Atherakhia.4086:

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

Unfortunately we’ve seen this before though.

Necromancers have been at the bottom of the pyramid in PvE since the game came out. Rangers, until recently, had the same issue in WvW, and arguably still do in PvP.

I think people’s concern is that the well-off classes will get specializations that make their class more dynamic with entirely new ways to play them. The worse-off classes will merely get specializations to fill in the gaps that have been discussed numerous times over the past 3 years and whether these specializations will compete with the others is anyone’s guess.

I imagine the goal is to have 9 fully functional classes with 9 seperate, but also fully functional specializations? A Ranger should still exist and be viable when compared to a Druid for example.

The classes aren’t really starting in an equal and competitive level going into the expansion. We’re worried what will happen after it gets here.

ps. And it’s also worth noting for the people that think specializations will solve all the woes being discussed in this thread… the revenant isn’t a specialization. It’s the base class. Who knows what its specialization will be capable of.

pps. Gaile, is it feasible for ANet to select the class specialists and have each of them coordinate a class CDI on their own specific forum so maybe ANet could get a clear picture of where players feel their respective class is? And would this information be able to be disseminated before the release of the expansion? Given what you know of the Ranger CDI and the time invested with that.

These disadvantages you speak of are not shown in game, you need to experience more of the game, play more classes it seems, to see that some classes are better against others, not everyone can easily beat anyone else. As well PvE content, it matters on what you care about, meta is meta, if your class cant be a part of it, whatever, but it doesnt mean that the class is useless or unable to complete things. Ive played every class to 80 and done almost any aspect of the game with almost any class and Ive never felt like anything was underpowered, just that some classes take a different approach and when up against certain things dont do as well, but the same classes that do well in those situations do not do well in others.

The classes are on an even field as is, but you can’t expect them all to do well in all situations, they each have their preferences so to say and their weaknesses, just like the revenant and all specializations will have. Calm down.

Like you I have one of every 80. I’ve experienced the majority of PvE content this game has to offer (most of which done on a Ranger). While all we can do as individuals is report what we see, the facts don’t support your argument.

There really is a ranking of classes in PvE. The Necromancer really is last in damage and utility. In WvW there really is a GWEN meta and the competitive few that play it at a higher level don’t have room for Rangers or Engineers. In PvP it’s divided into tiers where the low tiers have all the rangers, the mid tiers is nothing but cele builds, and the upper tiers are made up of a disproportionate number of certain classes with a very small sampling of the others.

So while these disadvantages I mentioned may not actually impact you, they do exist. They’re very well known. And they’re very widely discussed.

jacim.5904:

Lol the class isnt even done yet and pleople are still complaining
Not only that but you ahve no idea how the other classes are going to work when the expansion is out
Please wait till the expansion is out before you complain.

While it’s too early to espouse the sky is falling, having a discussion on class balance after the expansion comes out is not the proper time.

No one can say how X, Y, or Z will turn out in the expansion. All they can, and should do, is explain how X, Y, and Z, going into the expansion, are at a distinct disadvantage over A through E and how the addition of F is scary without X, Y, and Z getting their grievances heard.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

I don’t think the concern is about power creep so much as it is that the Revenant’s choices (that we’ve seen so far) are all good. For the stuff we’ve seen, everything Revenants have is useful and is interesting. For all existing professions, this isn’t the case. Useless traits and skills (or even weapons) dot all eight current professions, and it’s disheartening to hear that things like Slow and Resistance will show up “in specializations” but not hear anything about updates to existing stuff in order to make existing professions more interesting or rounded.

Basically, it’s bringing up the question of “when the specializations and Revenant are better designed and cooler, what reason is there to play a core profession?”

Yup, this.

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

Hope so Gaile. I hope rangers get the revamps we’ve been asking for and needing badly.

But as someone else mentioned, players aren’t really worried about power creeping, but fun gameplay. are the old traits and skills going to be as fun and interesting as the new Rev?

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

Thank you for the response. It’s good to know that devs are aware of things, I guess.

I’m not sure if we understand each other correctly, but I think that our good friend Drarnor Kunoram put it perfectly and this is what the discussion is all supposed to be about. Some of the people don’t seem to have grasped it fully. Or was it a misleading title…

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Basically, it’s bringing up the question of “when the specializations and Revenant are better designed and cooler, what reason is there to play a core profession?”

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

Thank-you and I’m sure if there does end up being a balance problem, we’ll aaaaaaall let you know, likely over and over again for months on end. XD

But I do feel I should support what’s been said already. It isn’t entirely about superiority, it’s also about playability. From what we saw on the livestream, because of a lot of new tech mechanics in the expansion are going to be a lot more advanced, have more varied uses, and a lot more interactions between them. Or in short, they’re going to be a lot more interesting to play, Ruby even said exactly that multiple times during the livestream.

So assuming your efforts to balance the new content with the old come out perfectly. What is going to keep the base content from being left behind for the expansion content not because of power, but because the expansion content is just has more fulfilling and interesting gameplay?

I, for one, welcome our new Revenant overlords.

I can’t help but feel the Revenant will outclass many if not all the current professions. I plan to play one though and my warrior will be donating 80 Tomes, 2 ascended sets, and a several legendary weapons. RIP warrior.

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

I do hope that it means that the current professions will get a revamp as well, and not that the balance is concentrated on revenant alone.
I also remember, though, that pre-buff ranger bearbows (and other, even less liked class builds) were also “doing just fine”.

So, the question is, will the old classes be as good and as fun to play as revenant and specializations.

Drarnor summed it up quite nicely:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Basically, it’s bringing up the question of “when the specializations and Revenant are better designed and cooler, what reason is there to play a core profession?”

I also hope for core revamps and tweaks. However I don’t want to tell ANet “don’t you dare make really cool new things that outshine what you’ve done before.” That’s a whole different kind of bad for retaining player interest Even if they don’t make sweeping upgrades game wide, surging forward in pieces is better than never advancing at all.

Atherakhia.4086:

Like you I have one of every 80. I’ve experienced the majority of PvE content this game has to offer (most of which done on a Ranger). While all we can do as individuals is report what we see, the facts don’t support your argument.

There really is a ranking of classes in PvE. The Necromancer really is last in damage and utility. In WvW there really is a GWEN meta and the competitive few that play it at a higher level don’t have room for Rangers or Engineers. In PvP it’s divided into tiers where the low tiers have all the rangers, the mid tiers is nothing but cele builds, and the upper tiers are made up of a disproportionate number of certain classes with a very small sampling of the others.

So while these disadvantages I mentioned may not actually impact you, they do exist. They’re very well known. And they’re very widely discussed.

This stuff only matters if you play by the meta game. The point stands that every class has its function, does it well and is strong in some ways and weak in others. We wont have a blanket bland, everyone can do everything in the same way system. As far as PvE is concerned its fine, its only in PvP where other players are a factor that some ‘tiers’ matter.

I really do not see how rangers are bottom tier PvP though, from my experience (and of course you can go ahead and assume I am terrible if you like, I consider myself a moderate PvPer but I do know whats going on when Im in there) Rangers are one of the better classes and harder ones to take out. The main issue I see is that people have made these tiers up and follow the meta so closely they are blind to a lot of things. Is it perfect? No. Is it so terrible however? no.

What I really don’t get however is that people can think there will not be balancing and old classes being revisited beyond specializations to apply new boons, conditions, and perhaps even the ‘new tech’. Maybe that one, or few, things you think need to change about x class havent happened but Anet has been updating and balancing things since launch, why would they stop now?

So you guys are all complaining about the new class being in appearance ; Slightly op for the game right? Well let me fill you in on some facts , one this game is based on skill. ANY class can be op if someone with skill gets a good build and runs out there to fight . One of the many reasons the game has no designated healer/tank is to provide this ; Secondly i want to draw the attention off the revenant to explain something . In PvE Conditions don’t do as good as everyone claims; So its malyx stance is not going to do as well in PvE as everyone assumes . Jalis will be perfect; Making them able to stand in with those other heavy armors and helping to take the agro off of people when need be . And PvP im sure everyone will come to learn that skill win’s the day; Dosent matter your build . Dosent matter your gear, if someone more skilled than you shows up and fights you . You . Will. Loose. Rangers are overly and pathetically OP With their power build and have been for the past two years ? And your complaining about a class that hasen’t even hit the game yet ? We have seen what they have (( so far)). Its not finished, and we dident get to see all of its weapon combos and so on. Im sure it will have its kwirks; And im sure its going to be harder to play than people assume . So dont worry; It like everything else in guildwars 2 is going to be a class sustained by the skills of the wielder , not the gear or abilities . Remember kiddo’s we have a dodge roll mechanic; This is a fine time to start using and learning how to use it .

Thornwolf.9721:

So you guys are all complaining about the new class being in appearance ; Slightly op for the game right?

No, we just addressed this in nearly all of the previous 10 posts before yours.

What we’re worried about has less to do with ‘opness’ and more to do with how interesting it is to play. If they add in dozens of new mechanics that have way more advanced, varied, applicable, and interesting uses than the current mechanics, the classes lacking the new mechanics will be left behind to collect dust, killing more content off than has been made.

Trock Bronze.9625:

Atherakhia.4086:

Like you I have one of every 80. I’ve experienced the majority of PvE content this game has to offer (most of which done on a Ranger). While all we can do as individuals is report what we see, the facts don’t support your argument.

There really is a ranking of classes in PvE. The Necromancer really is last in damage and utility. In WvW there really is a GWEN meta and the competitive few that play it at a higher level don’t have room for Rangers or Engineers. In PvP it’s divided into tiers where the low tiers have all the rangers, the mid tiers is nothing but cele builds, and the upper tiers are made up of a disproportionate number of certain classes with a very small sampling of the others.

So while these disadvantages I mentioned may not actually impact you, they do exist. They’re very well known. And they’re very widely discussed.

This stuff only matters if you play by the meta game. The point stands that every class has its function, does it well and is strong in some ways and weak in others. We wont have a blanket bland, everyone can do everything in the same way system. As far as PvE is concerned its fine, its only in PvP where other players are a factor that some ‘tiers’ matter.

I really do not see how rangers are bottom tier PvP though, from my experience (and of course you can go ahead and assume I am terrible if you like, I consider myself a moderate PvPer but I do know whats going on when Im in there) Rangers are one of the better classes and harder ones to take out. The main issue I see is that people have made these tiers up and follow the meta so closely they are blind to a lot of things. Is it perfect? No. Is it so terrible however? no.

What I really don’t get however is that people can think there will not be balancing and old classes being revisited beyond specializations to apply new boons, conditions, and perhaps even the ‘new tech’. Maybe that one, or few, things you think need to change about x class havent happened but Anet has been updating and balancing things since launch, why would they stop now?

Yes and no.

In theory it only matters if you plan to run dungeon premades or compete at a higher-than-casual level. The problem is that a lot of players follow these meta trends regardless of how competitive they’re trying to be. How many times do we see threads posted about Necromancers being kicked from groups, Rangers kicked because they brought a bow to a sword fight? This happens despite the group not having any real chance at beating some PvE world time record.

The simple fact is that things become meta for a reason. There’s nothing wrong with a meta so long as each class is capable of competing in it. We’re a long ways from that unfortunately; in PvE, PvP, and WvW.

Now as to a player’s assumption that things will go unchanged? Go check out the Necromancer forums. They’ve been complaining about their PvE status for 3 years. Check out the WvW or Ranger forums. They’ve been complaining about their status for 3 years. People aren’t making this all up and believe me, we’d like to give ANet the benefit of the doubt.

But not bringing these issues up and discussing them now will just end up leaving a lot of these classes in another 3 year rut. The goal in this expansion shouldn’t be to have 9 classes no one plays so long as 9 specializations are all balanced. The goal should be to have 9 equally viable classes with 9 equally viable specializations. Things aren’t equal going in and this is why players are concerned.

Man, I remember when everybody said the Elementalist was OP… then the Warrior was “uncounterable”, and the Ranger had “unstoppable burst” to “compensate for the Pet”, then Necromancer was “unkillable”, and so was the Guardian… etc., etc. …

Good to see you guys haven’t changed.

Keep making everything look massively overpowered, ANet. Good job. /salute

Im curious to know the same thing. Necromancers never received the kind of attention rangers got in the first place. So unlike rangers who received changes to their traits or even got better AI reworks to their pets, necromancer will be starting off from the bottom from where it was before the expansion even hits. We are still undesired in structured PvE and we even lack the tools to be the attrition class we need to be in pvp. Looking at the revenant skill’s it gains everything that a necromancer would pretty much do to be that melee caster/attrition class… it has all kinds of tools to counter long range and close range while buffing its defense. Meanwhile, the necromancer only has Death shroud and tons of HP to even survive anything, not to mention how hard it is to even gain life force from skills without dumping all our traits into certain trait lines in order get a steady amount of life force from skills in the first place.

And like it has been said before, it has nothing to do with Revenant looking more op than the older classes, but taking into consideration how its skills handle much better than what some classes have, it makes you wonder how will the older classes stay effective or even on top?

Uriel.6310:

Im curious to know the same thing. Necromancers never received the kind of attention rangers got in the first place. So unlike rangers who received changes to their traits or even got better AI reworks to their pets, necromancer will be starting off from the bottom from where it was before the expansion even hits.

don’t start this. necros are seeing competitive play in tourneys, rangers are not. necros are on all GvG rosters in WvW, rangers are not. regardless of the changes made, the ranger still has 3 completely useless utility lines and the pets are still trash outside of conquest.

I want to see more changes for all the professions, but the ranger is still broken with the exception of glassbow, which is only a gimmick used for pubstomping.

mistsim.2748:

Uriel.6310:

Im curious to know the same thing. Necromancers never received the kind of attention rangers got in the first place. So unlike rangers who received changes to their traits or even got better AI reworks to their pets, necromancer will be starting off from the bottom from where it was before the expansion even hits.

don’t start this. necros are seeing competitive play in tourneys, rangers are not. necros are on all GvG rosters in WvW, rangers are not. regardless of the changes made, the ranger still has 3 completely useless utility lines and the pets are still trash outside of conquest.

I want to see more changes for all the professions, but the ranger is still broken with the exception of glassbow, which is only a gimmick used for pubstomping.

This shouldn’t be a competition to see which class best rests at the bottom of the barrel. Both classes have very significant issues regardless of their status in the various game modes in this game. The same can be said for about half the classes in the game in fact.

That’s the point of this entire thread more or less.

mistsim.2748:

Uriel.6310:

Im curious to know the same thing. Necromancers never received the kind of attention rangers got in the first place. So unlike rangers who received changes to their traits or even got better AI reworks to their pets, necromancer will be starting off from the bottom from where it was before the expansion even hits.

don’t start this. necros are seeing competitive play in tourneys, rangers are not. necros are on all GvG rosters in WvW, rangers are not. regardless of the changes made, the ranger still has 3 completely useless utility lines and the pets are still trash outside of conquest.

I want to see more changes for all the professions, but the ranger is still broken with the exception of glassbow, which is only a gimmick used for pubstomping.

Correct me if im wrong, but rangers are indeed seeing competitive play in tournaments, I can not recall the guy who has been playing him in the last few tournaments, but he does well as condition or even power ranger, so saying that they aren’t is not true. Secondly, look outside of tournament representation and you will find plenty rangers in rank matches, with most playing power ranger. I have played power ranger myself and after the buff, it takes very little effort to down someone when compared to how some say condi necro takes no skill to play. That is besides the point though.

It’s true, rangers could use more work, I was not making the point that they are overpowered or under, what I am making a point though is that they also needed help in a certain area of the game and got the attention they needed. Necro’s on the other have not besides seeing small increments to skills like “0.5 sec decrease to a skill casting to help their mobility”.

So now I am left to hope specialization helps make up for what we do not have as a core class in the first place? I can not even begin to explain how hard it is to even do well when playing without a team on necro. Otherwise you will sit and eat CC’s for days as you pray that you can get into Death Shroud fast enough or your HP will last long enough as you wait for a century as one of your stun breakers come off cool down. So sure, Necro has a place in PvP/WvW but go try out a necro for a week or 2 and you will see for yourself that they have a huge problem being the “attrition class” arenanet says they are suppose to be.

Did no one read the OP, or did a bunch of people with no balance experience hijack the thread?

This isn’t about the power of the Revenant, or its skills, its about the coolness factor! Looking awesome and having varied and skill based gameplay is what the Revenant showed off in the stream, and that’s what this thread was supposed to be discussing.

Heck, the reason I chose Ele to main two years ago was because of all the professions it had the best “coolness” factor, pyrotechnics, etc. Yeah, it required a higher skill ceiling to play at even a baseline effectiveness, and I’m even now still working on it, but its worth it to have what may be the most visually interesting profession to play.

The problem with the Revenant is the kinetic nature of the class and its skill effects makes even Eles look slow and sad. Along with the OP, I’m hoping ANet will update “the look” of all existing professions with HoT, to give the same “feel” as the Revenant for the existing professions, but based just on the abysmal handling of skill balance and the length of time it takes to get stat fixes, that hope is not very confident.

From my understanding of the OP, it’s not balance or the class being overpowered, but it’s about incorporating the new tech. The cleaner and cooler animations, particle effects, and skillbar effects into the original professions outside of Specializations. Basically giving them a makeover with this new tech. Which I would love

Dirame.8521:

rotten.9753:

Dirame.8521:

I think I answered the question. He feels that Specialization won’t help when he hasn’t seen or heard or played anything of them. That’s silly to me.

Specialications will just give you one new weapon (lolshield for a mesmer) and some utilities. They won’t change what’s wrong with some core professions unless they would rework them which will not happen. In other words, revenant is being designed with the experience gained from the design of failed core professions. What devs showed during the PoI was that every skill has a reason and was created with that mindset. Even autoattacks. Plus traits.

How do you know it won’t change the weakness of the profession when they’ve said some specializations would alter the core mechanics of a class? Now I’m not saying it will, I’m just asking you how you know it won’t.

In my opinion, all you’ve got is assumptions and theories, not fact. And you’re not even sure the Mesmer is only get a Shield. Every other class that we know of, (engie, Necro, Ranger and possibly Guardian) is getting 5 skills, just because you only saw a shield does not mean they aren’t getting something else.

Chronomancer is shown using Sword along with the Shield.

So that argument that they can only use one weapon, may not hold up.

Knighthonor.4061:

Dirame.8521:

rotten.9753:

Dirame.8521:

I think I answered the question. He feels that Specialization won’t help when he hasn’t seen or heard or played anything of them. That’s silly to me.

Specialications will just give you one new weapon (lolshield for a mesmer) and some utilities. They won’t change what’s wrong with some core professions unless they would rework them which will not happen. In other words, revenant is being designed with the experience gained from the design of failed core professions. What devs showed during the PoI was that every skill has a reason and was created with that mindset. Even autoattacks. Plus traits.

How do you know it won’t change the weakness of the profession when they’ve said some specializations would alter the core mechanics of a class? Now I’m not saying it will, I’m just asking you how you know it won’t.

In my opinion, all you’ve got is assumptions and theories, not fact. And you’re not even sure the Mesmer is only get a Shield. Every other class that we know of, (engie, Necro, Ranger and possibly Guardian) is getting 5 skills, just because you only saw a shield does not mean they aren’t getting something else.

Chronomancer is shown using Sword along with the Shield.

So that argument that they can only use one weapon, may not hold up.

Mesmers already have main hand sword.

Uh … people are fretting they are only getting shield as their one new weapon. Mesmers already have swords available. In both hands, even.

leman.7682:

They don’t add cool animations and effects…

FWIW, and I’d have to watch the whole video again to find it, but I could swear the devs in the poi video said that they WOULD be adding those cool animations [to the UI at least, if that’s what you’re referring to by animations]

I can’t wait for when you guys who support the title of this thread, get your hands on the Revenant and all of a sudden, all you can do is complain about one thing or the other.

When you do get there, just remember that you created this thread and you spoke in favour of it.

Adelas.6598:

leman.7682:

They don’t add cool animations and effects…

FWIW, and I’d have to watch the whole video again to find it, but I could swear the devs in the poi video said that they WOULD be adding those cool animations [to the UI at least, if that’s what you’re referring to by animations]

Seconded, I remember the devs saying so.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Seconded, I remember the devs saying so.

To specialisations. The thread is all about core professions.

Hype train at high speeds gets a bit of speed wobbles.

Let me ease your tension.

1. New Technology [GUI] - Spoiler..At launch, most of the Trading Post's panels were actually a website embedded into the game using the Awesomium browser; since the September 2014 Feature Pack, it now uses Coherent. -source - Gw2 will be using full features of their already existing technology (as of last year) to make the UI look a little attractive.
2. New Technology [Taunt] - Opposite of fear with added chain animation, but you will never guess what happens next...you AREN'T locked out of your auto attack! #shock#new#2015
3. New Technology [Different damage at different ranges] - huh? - p.s. I cbf finding the live stream where they said this is new tech.

Summary – Relax

Edit: Things like directional shield wall are just nerfed shield wall, not new tech. Directional skills will require just as much if not less aim then nades. Swapping the end of your skill bar simply means your not swapping the start of your skill bar. Of course it’s going to look more interesting then existing classes because..IT'S NOT AN EXISTING CLASS

Edit 2: Revenant brand new energy management system is actually some of the oldest innovations developed originally in gw1 – too bad there’s still no capes!!1111!!

Edit 3:

EDIT: Clarification – this is not a discussion about power creep. Revenant won’t be stronger in numerical terms, Anet wouldn’t let that happen.

hehe do you remember when they first unleashed the assassin in gw1? I guess insta kill doesn’t qualify as OP though :P

The “new tech” they are referring to is relating to the cascading attacks (not higher damage at higher range). The skill pulses, but not all pulses are in the same location.

Similarly, there is the mobile shield wall. Current skills are all based on XYZ coordinates at cast or calculating range from the caster for each tick in the case of pulsing PBAoE’s. The projectile-blocking wall on Revenant hammer is neither of these.

Khenzy.9348:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I don’t see anything on the Revenant being overpowered so far. What I do notice is that everything is good. I didn’t see anything on there where I thought “well, that will hardly ever be used.”

Unlike all 8 professions right now.

Both Banish Enchantment and Unyielding Anguish seem ridiculously strong. One to spam confusion on target while removing all the boons, the other is a pretty overpowered peel (on paper). Not to mention Inspiring Reinforcement is 329785637895638 times better than Hallowed Ground.
From what we’ve seen so far, Revenants seem really weak in some aspecs but really strong in some others. We should expect a heavy balance pass shortly after released.

If by “shortly after” you mean 6-12 months, sure. It’s A-net we’re talking about. They don’t even have a team dedicated to profession balance.

Isn’t it pretty much par for the course in MMOs that new classes come out a little more awesome than existing classes and a little OP?

So make sure you have an Experience Scroll and 60 Tomes of Knowledge in your bank, and join the Revenenant Invasion for the first month or two six months after HoT launches before they swing the nerf hammer, and swing it again, adjusting the Revenant to a little less awesome than the other professions and a little UP.

And we’ll all have stories of the all-Revenant dungeon runs and 9/10 Revenant PvP matchups to share with the newbies who buy GW2 in 2017.

aussieheals.6843:

Hype train at high speeds gets a bit of speed wobbles.

Let me ease your tension.

1. New Technology [GUI] - Spoiler..At launch, most of the Trading Post's panels were actually a website embedded into the game using the Awesomium browser; since the September 2014 Feature Pack, it now uses Coherent. -source - Gw2 will be using full features of their already existing technology (as of last year) to make the UI look a little attractive.
2. New Technology [Taunt] - Opposite of fear with added chain animation, but you will never guess what happens next...you AREN'T locked out of your auto attack! #shock#new#2015
3. New Technology [Different damage at different ranges] - huh? - p.s. I cbf finding the live stream where they said this is new tech.

Summary – Relax

Edit: Things like directional shield wall are just nerfed shield wall, not new tech. Directional skills will require just as much if not less aim then nades. Swapping the end of your skill bar simply means your not swapping the start of your skill bar. Of course it’s going to look more interesting then existing classes because..IT'S NOT AN EXISTING CLASS

Edit 2: Revenant brand new energy management system is actually some of the oldest innovations developed originally in gw1 – too bad there’s still no capes!!1111!!

Edit 3:

EDIT: Clarification – this is not a discussion about power creep. Revenant won’t be stronger in numerical terms, Anet wouldn’t let that happen.

hehe do you remember when they first unleashed the assassin in gw1? I guess insta kill doesn’t qualify as OP though :P

The thing is… I’d rather have Necros (I’ll only compare it to Necro cause that is what I play) use their Life Force as a ressource-bar and have wells, signets etc. have a lot lower cooldown. Because that would actually better than having no ressource (well as long as Necros would start with 30% Life Force or used HP to use skills when LF is 0). You see, “spamming” and combining skills like the Revenant is FUN. Having awesome combos like Signet of Plague&Singet of Spite + Epidemic on a 2 minute + cooldown, however, is NOT. It is basically the same as Mallyx using his “Draw conditions from allies” and “pulse your conditions to nearby foes” skills, only those to have a cooldown of..right, ZERO. Basically, if Necro-Spec changed the Necro to use LF as a ressource, and lower epidemics and singet of plague/spites CD’S (of course all the other skills too) to something like 10 seconds, 15 seconds etc, it still wouldn’t be OP (again, same as using the 0 CD-Mallyx ones), but instantly would bump the fun of playing said combos, finding new ones etc. and make them way more viable and awesome. There isn’t even a need to change Life Force to only have x points, they could just use percentages for the costs. And it would be different from Revenant, too, because the ways to gain LF would stay the same.

NOTE : I love playing Necro. I pretty much ONLY play Necro. Problem is that only a very limited amount of skills actually feel fun and impactful to use, which pretty much recks the diversity that could be had with a ressource-system.

…kitten , that was a rather long derail. Sorry for that.
BTT: Yes, sure Revenant will not be the know-all be-all, but the point is that

a) All his Utilities/Heal/Elites so far looks perfectly in sync and can be used as such due to 0 CD.
b) The traits so far also seem to synergize great with the given legends.
c)The weapon skills are also better designed.

Then add to that that not a single of those is found on current classes, as well as no info that they will actually have any plans to bring the core professions in line before, with,or shortly after HoT, and we have a problem. Though I’d imagine it will be the combination of the Revenant and the other classes’ specializations that will leave the core professions – especially the ones with the most current problems like Necro and Ranger – in the dust until something is done so that there is actually a meaningful choice whether to specialize for a specific task or go back to the core profession. Until then, people will just run around with the “more shiny, better in synch and fresh” specialization…always assuming they get the same amount of love to details as the Revenant currently displays.

Whatever, could care less. I will, of course, make a Revenant, but my main will still be the same old Ranger I made on the first day of early access. It looked interesting. It did not look like the end all of being and playing.