Guild Wars 2

What is important to me is wheter the core classes will be on the same level gameplay wise as the revenant. i couldnt care less if revenant is op or not.

See, some of you may or may not have played a game called league of legends.

And my fear is, that the old classes become the soraka and taric of gw2 after champs like nami, thresh or braum enter the frame with their super duper fun mechanics, which have skillplay, rewarding counters and secondary or tertiary effects on each skill.

Take the warrior as an example:

Each and every single utility skill besides the physical ones are pretty unfun.
Signets, Stances, Shouts – your character literally stands there, has no animation, nor does move from the spot while smashing these buttons. Super not fun.
In addition they dont effect the gameplay at all besides small icons above your skillbar…

Its the same with the weapons – every single skill there is an unimaginery dmg 1, dmg 2, dmg 3 with a thrown in random condition and so on…..

Meanwhile the revenant has skillshots which have major effect on the enemy or himself. It feels like the revenant is flying around with his cool set of skills, which look different, skillfull, are rewarding to land and have a purpose.

Frankly, i feel the specialisation is not enough – the old classes get 4 new utility skills, which will be no doubt on the same lvl as the revenants skills, however it is what it is, just 4 skills for the specialisation, and again no doubt it wont be usefull to take all the new skills, which means we are stuck with partially the same old same old. Besides the new weapon – which absolutely has to hit the spot for the old classes in terms of pve, pvp and wvw (which i feel is impossible) we still will be playing with the same old weapons.

I feel like playing an outdated class, which will ultimately suffer from being the first to be developed and therefore not having the majority of its design being built upon vast experience and design time of the previous 3 years. I feel like a 2009 LoL Champion taking it up with a 2014 one.

I try hard not to jump to immediate balance conclusions based on teaser footage but I felt it was obvious how outlandish the new class is in comparison to what we have now. It could be that the specializations will bring other classes up in line with it but at the moment there should be no question just off of what we have seen how insane it is.

The hammer having innate pierce AND 100% projectile finisher chance with a projectile blocking wall that also acts as a dark field for them to auto attack through on a 12 second cool-down was hilarious enough. It takes a trait for rangers arrows to do that and their autos are 20% chance to trigger field effects. I thought that perhaps it was an oversight but as I kept watching the stability changes felt so counter intuitive the only class that would consider blowing extra ccs on someone to rid them of stability stacks would be thief. He dropped a 5 second cool-down skill and got 5 stacks of stability for a base 5 second duration. Not to mention the stability on dodge? Yes you could blow ccs to remove them but it is essentially a wasted effort unless you want to blow a full teams worth of cc on them to get rid of it. Who in their right mind is going to drop that many ccs on one guy because he has multiple stability stacks of it? That isn’t “options” that is bait to see if people will actually waste their cc on it.

Talking about how their mallyx is still vulnerable to condis when you strip their boon or when you wait it out? They have access to an adept trait that just gives them 2 seconds of a condition immunity boon on utility/heal/elite skill usage when they have no cool-downs on their utility skills. No amount of energy management can justify some of the things shown in that video. It literally is a better version of necromancer with other class fortes thrown on top of it. Pretty sure they shouldn’t have a 12 second cool-down anti projectile skill that also follows them, I would love to be able to drag my thief’s 40 some odd second cool-down smoke screen around with me as well. These are just a few of the things that seem way off about it so far.

So while yes the specializations may bring other classes in line with it (which would define power creep) the concerns about the class seem perfectly justified based on the footage we have been given.

The impression I got is that Revenenat will be very strong in a straight-up brawling fight. Start getting tricky with them via flanking, CC, and boon strip, they will have a bad time.

I am not sure where this fear is coming from that somehow the original professions won’t get access to this “new tech”. Anything that has to do with the mechanics of the game will have to be applied across all facets of the game. Otherwise you will have an unbalance that would necessitate the purchase of HoT (ex: no way of being able to slow or taunt with existing professions).

Think of it this way, when Torment was added to the game (a condition only available to Mesmers in gw1) it was available to all professions in some way.

This is how I feel they will handle any game mechanics changes. They even hint at this by saying that the changes to how stability will work will be coming sooner than the expansion, essentially meaning it won’t be tied behind a pay-wall.

aussieheals.6843:

Hype train at high speeds gets a bit of speed wobbles.

Let me ease your tension.

1. New Technology At launch, most of the Trading Post’s panels were actually a website embedded into the game using the Awesomium browser; since the September 2014 Feature Pack, it now uses Coherent. -
   – Gw2 will be using full features of their already (as of last year) to make the UI look a little attractive.
2. Taunt- Opposite of fear with added chain animation, but you will never guess what happens you AREN’T locked out of your auto attack! #shock#new#2015
3. Different damage at different ranges – - p.s. I cbf finding the live stream where they said this is new tech.

Edit: Things like directional shield wall are just nerfed shield wall, not new tech. Directional skills will require just as much if not less aim then nades. Swapping the end of your skill bar simply means your not swapping the start of your skill bar. Of course it’s going to look more interesting then existing classes IT’S NOT AN EXISTING CLASS

Umm… no, you missed a metric crapton of just what they announced, and we know there are a lot more mechanics besides even what they announced. There was a bar under the mobs names for example that still hasn’t been explained.

Directional shield wall IS new tech, they stated so in the livestream. They cannot do a ground based effect that alters its position with your own in the current game UNLESS it comes from the characters standard projectile and skill origin, like dragons breath.

You know what else you can’t find? Any point in this thread where anyone stated range based damage was new tech.

They also have the ability to put in much more varied and specific skill indication affects, something which could seriously help how unclear the game is everywhere from PvE to PvP.

You are, completly, undervaluing the use of the new UI options. A dev stated previously that their ability to change the UI per class was extremely limited AT LAUNCH, meaning they could only add so much variance between class mechanics at that time, regardless of what they added later. Guess what this thread is primarily addressing? Mechanical variance and viability among THE LAUNCH CLASSES!

And the BIGGEST ONE, upkeep skills! There are SO MANY skills and traits among the base classes that are just fix and forget it skills, which, regardless of their balance, have completely underwhelming affects that interest no one.

Traps, conjures, venoms, signets on nearly every single class, glyphs, confusion and torment skills, stealth, tons of off hand weapons, some main hand weapons, pretty much everything support related, the majority of the games traits; all things that are largely unfulfilling to play which could actually see use were they to ferret newer technology in to the base game and improve them.

Maybe next time, worry less about your condescending sarcasm and fancy use of the posting tools and more about the content, character, and correctness of your post.

Mar.4839:

I am not sure where this fear is coming from that somehow the original professions won’t get access to this “new tech”. Anything that has to do with the mechanics of the game will have to be applied across all facets of the game. Otherwise you will have an unbalance that would necessitate the purchase of HoT (ex: no way of being able to slow or taunt with existing professions).

Think of it this way, when Torment was added to the game (a condition only available to Mesmers in gw1) it was available to all professions in some way.

This is how I feel they will handle any game mechanics changes. They even hint at this by saying that the changes to how stability will work will be coming sooner than the expansion, essentially meaning it won’t be tied behind a pay-wall.

And i dont see how people would see the new conditions and taunt as the new mechanics most of us are talking about, ofc stability and resitance and the like will be reworked on the classes. But honsetly i couldnt care less.

It is about the new flashy gameplay mechanics like the camera drive teleport and the like of the SKILLS the new class has, additionally its about that all the skills seem to be made with the actually meta/real gameplay of the game in mind, where alot of classes have wishfull thinking skills and traits which simply dont fulfill a purpose. I would feel left out if the old classes keep the majority of their outdated skillmechanics which are straight forward “press button x and deal y damage”

where is michael?
i need popcorn when i see all the rage saying “rev is useless” when they can finally play it, it’s gonna be a joy to watch.

Mar.4839:

Think of it this way, when Torment was added to the game (a condition only available to Mesmers in gw1) it was available to all professions in some way.

Ironically, Torment-like effects were not available to Mesmers in GW1 and Torment as a condition didn’t exist either.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Binding_Chains
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shameful_Fear
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Winter%27s_Embrace

Alex Eternity.8195:

Mar.4839:

I am not sure where this fear is coming from that somehow the original professions won’t get access to this “new tech”. Anything that has to do with the mechanics of the game will have to be applied across all facets of the game. Otherwise you will have an unbalance that would necessitate the purchase of HoT (ex: no way of being able to slow or taunt with existing professions).

Think of it this way, when Torment was added to the game (a condition only available to Mesmers in gw1) it was available to all professions in some way.

This is how I feel they will handle any game mechanics changes. They even hint at this by saying that the changes to how stability will work will be coming sooner than the expansion, essentially meaning it won’t be tied behind a pay-wall.

And i dont see how people would see the new conditions and taunt as the new mechanics most of us are talking about, ofc stability and resitance and the like will be reworked on the classes. But honsetly i couldnt care less.

It is about the new flashy gameplay mechanics like the camera drive teleport and the like of the SKILLS the new class has, additionally its about that all the skills seem to be made with the actually meta/real gameplay of the game in mind, where alot of classes have wishfull thinking skills and traits which simply dont fulfill a purpose. I would feel left out if the old classes keep the majority of their outdated skillmechanics which are straight forward “press button x and deal y damage”

I guarantee you that camera thing is going to get old FAST.

You said before how signets are unfun? Personal preference does not a fact make. I LOVE signets, I think they’re the greatest thing ever. The ability to have constant effects on you without actually interacting with things, and also having other effects on top of them if you really need them? That’s great.

Your problem is that you apparently need flashy things in front of your face at all times to keep you entertained and interested. You know that’s the purpose of a mobile over a baby’s crib?

They might alter some of the classes with these flashy thing, but probably not. If they had introduced this with a feature patch it would be guaranteed, but they didn’t, so it’s questionable.

The only relevant argument, so far, has been that the entire class, as far as we can tell, is cohesive to how the game is played. That stands to reason. They really didn’t know how the game would ultimately be played when they were first making it. So they went with what they thought would be good, and unfortunately a lot of it fell short. But a lot of it didn’t. And what didn’t fall short will remain regardless of the Revenant.

The Revenant will not be all things to all people. It just won’t. So no, it won’t make a serious impact on what gets played, it will just add itself to the mix.

Remember when the community was in an uproar because the upcoming skill, Antitoxin Spray, was going to be so overpowered that it would ruin the game? Please stop.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Remember when the community was in an uproar because the upcoming skill, Antitoxin Spray, was going to be so overpowered that it would ruin the game? Please stop.

Nobody remembers things that don’t happen.

Also it would be nice if you read peoples problems before you respond.

Conncept.7638:

Umm… no,

Incoming intelligent discussion.

Conncept.7638:

we know there are a lot more mechanics besides even what they announced

Hindsight Bias, check it out, I’ll wait

ok done? good! next on the list..

Conncept.7638:

Directional shield wall IS new tech, they stated so in the livestream. They cannot do a ground based effect that alters its position with your own in the current game UNLESS it comes from the characters standard projectile and skill origin, like dragons breath.

Some call it new tech, others call it a fix. If a dev told you on live stream he can swim unassisted to the deepest parts of the ocean would you believe that too?

Conncept.7638:

You know what else you can’t find? Any point in this thread where anyone stated range based damage was new tech.

First you refer to the livestream then question why I do? Truth is I thought I would add a few extra things I remembered from the streams instead of waiting for someone to mention it. Also to show what devs are showing off as ‘new tech’. See how this connects to my last point?

Conncept.7638:

They also have the ability to put in much more varied and specific skill indication affects, something which could seriously help how unclear the game is everywhere from PvE to PvP.

..this is already in the game… the reason why no one knows wtf is going on in pvp and wvw cluster kitten matches is largely because of this. They actually added ‘new tech’ so you could turn it down..

Conncept.7638:

You are, completly, undervaluing the use of the new UI options. A dev stated previously that their ability to change the UI per class was extremely limited AT LAUNCH

Showing off the UI features consisted of swapping legends back and forward showing a flip/glow effect and a noise.. how much hype do you want to give it? Also, yes at launch but if you take the time to read my post you will notice they changed this in SEPTEMBER, NOT NEW TECH.

Conncept.7638:

And the BIGGEST ONE, upkeep skills!

This ‘tech’ has been a basic feature of the Guild Wars franchise since it’s inception. If it was/is so fantastic it would of came out from day one of gw2.

In all, I cannot wait for the expansion and I am really excited about everything coming with it. However, the title of this thread (Revenant-kills-existing-professions) is completely blowing things out of proportion (likely because it was posted straight after watching the PR stunt) and I am simply trying to ‘ground’ the hype being wildly flung around to save disappointment.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

I don’t think the concern is about power creep so much as it is that the Revenant’s choices (that we’ve seen so far) are all good.

To be fair, we haven’t seen all the choices. If you wanted to pick two weapons and a few skills from each class, I’m sure you could make every class look good as well. You guys aren’t recognizing the marketing going on here. Anet isn’t going to say “hey, here are the worst skills we have designed for the new class, come play the game”.

Since people still… keep… missing… the… point…, I’ll provide an example that may just illustrate it.

Echoing Eruption, “cascade attack” with three blast finishers on an 8 second cooldown.

No other profession in game has an attack like this. Following the example, Churning Earth would be a good candidate for alteration to a “cascade attack” and that’s the question of the thread, is will the NEW TECH be applied to core profession skills where it would make sense?

We’ve seen footage now of the Revenant in action. Its fast paced, dynamic, and kinetic, sort of like Thief gameplay on steroids. The longest CD on existing Rev weapon skills is 15 seconds, imagine how Eles feel with 40 or 50 second CDs in addition to a 10 second attunement swap CD? Don’t even get started on utility and Elites with ZERO cooldown.

I realize that before, at and post launch the dev team will be looking at balancing Revenant skills numerically. But mechanically, and through execution, Rev skills right now are superior to existing core professions. And they just look COOL. From what we’ve seen, its likely SPECIALIZATIONS will get the tech updates on HoT release, but that’s a small percentage of playability compared to the existing eight professions with all their skills and traits.

Just to be clear, the concern isn’t adding Resistance or altering Stability on the existing professions, its about updating the look and feel of the professions so that the Revenant doesn’t instantly eclipse them in the awesomeness factor.

Kaleban.9834:

Since people still… keep… missing… the… point…, I’ll provide an example that may just illustrate it.

Echoing Eruption, “cascade attack” with three blast finishers on an 8 second cooldown.

No other profession in game has an attack like this. Following the example, Churning Earth would be a good candidate for alteration to a “cascade attack” and that’s the question of the thread, is will the NEW TECH be applied to core profession skills where it would make sense?

We’ve seen footage now of the Revenant in action. Its fast paced, dynamic, and kinetic, sort of like Thief gameplay on steroids. The longest CD on existing Rev weapon skills is 15 seconds, imagine how Eles feel with 40 or 50 second CDs in addition to a 10 second attunement swap CD? Don’t even get started on utility and Elites with ZERO cooldown.

I realize that before, at and post launch the dev team will be looking at balancing Revenant skills numerically. But mechanically, and through execution, Rev skills right now are superior to existing core professions. And they just look COOL. From what we’ve seen, its likely SPECIALIZATIONS will get the tech updates on HoT release, but that’s a small percentage of playability compared to the existing eight professions with all their skills and traits.

Just to be clear, the concern isn’t adding Resistance or altering Stability on the existing professions, its about updating the look and feel of the professions so that the Revenant doesn’t instantly eclipse them in the awesomeness factor.

Or the effectiveness factor. Which is far more important.

Has anyone considered that there are likely entire weeks devoted to existing classes, and their wholesale reworks alongside the specializations?

Think about it this way: You got a rev update alongside explanations of some pretty fundamental changes in the form of boon/condition behaviors.

It’s likely that 3/4 of what we see on the new specializations is reworks to existing skills, as specializations draw heavily from their base classes. The remaining 1/4 is the new skills, weapons, or mechanics that the specializations grant. Remember, a specialization isn’t a NEW class. It’s a SUBclass. It’s like switching from R/W ro R/Mo.

PopeUrban.2578:

Has anyone considered that there are likely entire weeks devoted to existing classes, and their wholesale reworks alongside the specializations?

Think about it this way: You got a rev update alongside explanations of some pretty fundamental changes in the form of boon/condition behaviors.

It’s likely that 3/4 of what we see on the new specializations is reworks to existing skills, as specializations draw heavily from their base classes. The remaining 1/4 is the new skills, weapons, or mechanics that the specializations grant. Remember, a specialization isn’t a NEW class. It’s a SUBclass. It’s like switching from R/W ro R/Mo.

The thing is that we all doubt that they will finally do what i marked in bold , after the ages they ignored the problems of some of the classes (like Necros).

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

I wouldn’t expect it to be intentional. I can’t speak for anyone else, but my concern isn’t even strictly power based. Just having a more modern class with more modern design sensibilities risks making the existing ones feel old and unfun in comparison, and the only confirmed changes to existing professions we have are through Specializations, which are supposed to be optional.

My question would be, are there any tweaks coming to existing professions aside from Specializations? Not even overhauls or anything, just quality of life issues. Will old things that the Revenant has similar aspects of get updated to match the Revenant (for instance, with projectile or camera behavior)? Will flaws (not trade-offs, but flaws) be addressed outside of Specializations?

For instance, Mesmers are infamous for having the least reliable movement speed in the game. Now, if the guesses are true, and the Mesmer Specialization is going to be Chronomancer, then I think it’s pretty safe to assume Chronomancer will have more movement speed options, but will that mean base Mesmer won’t be addressed as a result? Will the answer to movement speed problems just be “change to Chronomancer?” Movement speed is often crucial in this game, if for no other reason than just keeping up with the rest of your allies.

Normally I wouldn’t question this so much, but with the implication that Specializations will be the only place existing professions are really touched, it leaves a concern.

I’m not liking all those conditions a revenant can throw out whilst being a heavy armor class- confusion, torment, stacks of it, RF reflection (absorption?) shield, life stealing skills.

Looks a bit like a necro on steroids in one legendary form, but with better access to conditions .

Can’t wait to see how it plays when it finally comes.

The sky is falling!

Kaleban.9834:

Since people still… keep… missing… the… point…, I’ll provide an example that may just illustrate it.

Echoing Eruption, “cascade attack” with three blast finishers on an 8 second cooldown.

No other profession in game has an attack like this. Following the example, Churning Earth would be a good candidate for alteration to a “cascade attack” and that’s the question of the thread, is will the NEW TECH be applied to core profession skills where it would make sense?

What doesn’t make sense is when people look at ONE specific element, in isolation, and claim it’s OP for the whole game.

Levetty.1279:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Remember when the community was in an uproar because the upcoming skill, Antitoxin Spray, was going to be so overpowered that it would ruin the game? Please stop.

Nobody remembers things that don’t happen.

Also it would be nice if you read peoples problems before you respond.

That absolutely happened. So this comment seems totally legit.

Kaleban.9834:

Since people still… keep… missing… the… point…, I’ll provide an example that may just illustrate it.

Echoing Eruption, “cascade attack” with three blast finishers on an 8 second cooldown.

No other profession in game has an attack like this. Following the example, Churning Earth would be a good candidate for alteration to a “cascade attack” and that’s the question of the thread, is will the NEW TECH be applied to core profession skills where it would make sense?

We’ve seen footage now of the Revenant in action. Its fast paced, dynamic, and kinetic, sort of like Thief gameplay on steroids. The longest CD on existing Rev weapon skills is 15 seconds, imagine how Eles feel with 40 or 50 second CDs in addition to a 10 second attunement swap CD? Don’t even get started on utility and Elites with ZERO cooldown.

I realize that before, at and post launch the dev team will be looking at balancing Revenant skills numerically. But mechanically, and through execution, Rev skills right now are superior to existing core professions. And they just look COOL. From what we’ve seen, its likely SPECIALIZATIONS will get the tech updates on HoT release, but that’s a small percentage of playability compared to the existing eight professions with all their skills and traits.

Just to be clear, the concern isn’t adding Resistance or altering Stability on the existing professions, its about updating the look and feel of the professions so that the Revenant doesn’t instantly eclipse them in the awesomeness factor.

Three blast finishers in a line that is long enough that MAYBE two of them are useful, but probably still only one. So nothing is actually gained. It is a good skill. It is a useful skill. It is not the skill of skills by which all other skills must be judged worthy.

Once again, flashing lights, sparkles and bling are not the draw you seem to think they are. They’re not substance. The class has some substance too, yes, but it also only gets one weapon set, like an Elementalist, without weapon swap. It can swap it’s utilities, but that’s still going to rub some people the wrong way.

Let’s just look at the game they played. When they have the hammer and the dwarf legend, that was a good fit. But when they swapped to the demon, not so much. The mace/axe was a good fit for the demon, but not really ideal for the dwarf. If you don’t have weapon swap that means that swapping your legend a lot is the way to play. If your legends don’t jive and don’t match the play style of your weapon, you’re gonna have a bad time.

It has potential problems. There are absolutely specs that don’t work and won’t make sense, you know, like every other class.

I for one don’t need my UI to shimmer and shake every time I have my pet use her special attack. I’ll let the Revenant keep that “tech upgrade” to itself. Besides, the Guardian already has that going on, or have you never noticed the blue flames which are directly related to your mechanic being fully up.

a better question is how revenants will act under certain story or consumable skill changes, like the Avatar of Balthazar transformation during “The Ghost Rite”

I imagine ‘embrace the demon’ while under this trans would look pretty freaky.

I highly doubt the 8 original classes will see major reworks. I mean you need to go by ArenaNet’s track record, 2.5 years and they can barely manage simple database value changes. Even the things they did rework they failed horribly at. Necro dhumfire? They failed at that multiple times even with players telling them how terrible their proposed fixes were before they went live. 2.5 years and we still have how many useless weapons and traits? Their record speaks for itself.

I’d wager that the Revenant will be OP at launch and remain that way for 1-2 years. First off it’s an incentive for people to buy the expansion. Second, ArenaNet has shown time and time again that their balance team plays favorites, obviously their new class will be their favorite. 3rd ArenaNet doesn’t want to do heavy lifting so you can bank on very little being done to help old classes.

The idea behind the revenant is just the culmination of homogenized gameplay that ArenaNet has been working towards. It is the direct result of ArenaNet’s balance team being unable to handle any sort of combat depth as well as their complete lack of creativity.

I cannot wait to destroy revenants like people destroyed assassins back during the first few months of Factions.

aussieheals.6843:

Incoming intelligent discussion.

So anyone who tells you no, you are incorrect, is stupid? Please tell me any other way of interpreting that, or how incredibly intelligent and mature of a person you are for making such an assumption. I would love to hear this juvenile excuse on top of all the others you have provided.

Clearly, you didn’t make it to the final and most important sentence of my post. Here, let me open with it this time to make sure you make it to it this time.

“Maybe next time, worry less about your condescending sarcasm and fancy use of the posting tools and more about the content, character, and correctness of your post.”

aussieheals.6843:

Hindsight Bias, check it out, I’ll wait
ok done? good! next on the list..

Maybe you should read that page yourself, though because I rely on what I actually know rather than hiding behind sarcasm, I did in fact read it. Take note of this line: “The hindsight bias is defined as a tendency to change a recollection from an original thought to something different because of newly provided information” So, please explain to me, what new information was provided? None, we both have the same information with no new information provided between our encounters. The real difference between us is I don’t assume the worst of, attack, and attempt to debunk everything to feel better about myself. The information we have on it, shows there are in fact new mechanics regardless of your opinion on them, and plenty of them, with more to come.

Furthermore, grow up, you are better than no one, and are acting significantly worse than most.

aussieheals.6843:

Some call it new tech, others call it a fix. If a dev told you on live stream he can swim unassisted to the deepest parts of the ocean would you believe that too

So your opinion that it isn’t new tech, contrary to developers who know infinitely more about the game than you, makes it gospel. On second thought, this page would better serve you.

aussieheals.6843:

First you refer to the livestream then question why I do? Truth is I thought I would add a few extra things I remembered from the streams instead of waiting for someone to mention it. Also to show what devs are showing off as ‘new tech’. See how this connects to my last point?

My post was not vehemently downputting a fellow player and/or developer who never said anything, here or in the livestream, at any time, or apparently even existed in the first place.

aussieheals.6843:

.this is already in the game… the reason why no one knows wtf is going on in pvp and wvw cluster kitten matches is largely because of this. They actually added ‘new tech’ so you could turn it down..

Nope, this technology is incredibly limited, only allowing for very basic indicators without a lot of accuracy. It has been improved somewhat since launch but things like the brick road summon shown in the livestream show massive technological leaps coming with the expansion.

aussieheals.6843:

Showing off the UI features consisted of swapping legends back and forward showing a flip/glow effect and a noise.. how much hype do you want to give it? Also, yes at launch but if you take the time to read my post you will notice they changed this in SEPTEMBER, NOT NEW TECH.

Developers can dream up whatever they want, but it does NOT make it in to the game if the gameplay UI cannot support it, end of discussion, no way around until new UI tech is made. Meaning, this tech, regardless of when it was put in the game, was made for the content coming in the expansion, and will be used in it.

aussieheals.6843:

This ‘tech’ has been a basic feature of the Guild Wars franchise since it’s inception. If it was/is so fantastic it would of came out from day one of gw2.

Moot point and you know it. Such tech has been in RPGs and Rogue games, shooters, simulators, platformers, adventure games, pen and paper games, BOARD GAMES!

Is it in GW2? No, it isn’t, therefore in the context of this conversation, no matter how much you want to sour everything with cynicism and baseless deprecation, it IS new tech, and quite valuable tech at that.

Hagger.6854:

The sky is falling!

Almost, though I do find concerns raised on current info we have valid enough to talk about.

• So What are the base professions getting?
• What if I don’t wanna play Chronomancer, What is my mesmer getting?
• Is there any advantage on playing the base profession over the Specialization, if the latter gets all new stuff? (i.e mechanics, skills, traits)
• Are we getting some useless traits (ESP. GM TRAITS) Revamped? +1000 Healing power on interrupt anyone?

Lévis.5489:

I cannot wait to destroy revenants like people destroyed assassins back during the first few months of Factions.

You do remember the class that was doing the most destroying in that time (until it got nerfed to the ground), right?

Im sticking with my mesmer, i love that class to play anything else, plus rev doesnt look that great when i saw the gameplay, ill be playing my mesmer

With what we’ve seen of the Revenant and it’s resistance stacking, it’ll only take a good boon stripper to destroy a Mallyx revenant. (Resistance is only on long cd or high energy cost skills and only lasts a couple of seconds; you see the revenant get blinded several times when showing off his skills in the PoI). A Jalis tanky build will be wrecked similarly to other bunker builds. Support and Zerk (Glint and Shiro [Vizu?]) will be handled by existing strategies. Besides with gear, unless it’s celestial, you’ll only be able to “specialize” one of your legends with the other one being left by the wayside. and this is excluding the fact that their elites are far less powerful than other elites (justified by their lack of a cd) and the fact that their bars can be accurately guessed by a look at them/their buffs.

I fully expect to love the Rev (since I love my ele and engi) but it’s not without it’s own glaring weaknesses.

Can someone explain me why everyone see Glint as support? I actually want it to be a dps one :<

Scoobaniec.9561:

Can someone explain me why everyone see Glint as support? I actually want it to be a dps one :<

Her very nature has always been support. She supported humanity for many years guiding them as a prophet. Then she guided the flameseeker prophesies. Then she supported the Zephyrites until her death and even after death her body and her wisdom continued to support them.

Her very nature was supportive, which is why so many assume if she is channelled it will be as a support role. Frankly I agree and hope this is so. The DPS channel (if there is only one) should be Shiro in my opinion.

Do we have any confirmation that either of them are even Legends?

It’s not even about technical execution, it’s about conceptual design.

Everybody knows it’s bad in gw2. Let’s take off the fanboy googles for a moment and it becomes evident:

1. Some classes, like necro (ranger, thief, engy and mesmer to a lesser extent), are plagued by bad design all over. Look at necro: the slot skills are inconsistent, the weapon skills lack coherency, their class mechanic was a big miss with no actual decision making, and their utility took a hit from the said class mechanic, which in turn does not compensate for anything.

Many conceptions are poor in execution on top of that: lifesteal has never worked and never will, life force generation is a flawed concept as it either starves you from LF regen or puts you into a win more situation, the combinations of spectral skills with DS got nerfed to the ground and so forth. Literally the only somewhat working concept is power ds penetration..but even that has so little synergy with the rest of the class – and even the rest of death shroud – it’s hurting.

2. Some generic mechanics are a total disaster, like AI. Both controlled and uncontrolled AI skills like ranger pets, necro minions or ele elementals, engineer’s turrets are all too unreliable and plagued with bugs with target acquisition, line of sight, pathing and others. Animation locks for pets are not, and will not, be fixed – but this is not preventing anet from putting vitally important skills that require precision timing on pets, where they have no hope of ever working properly. But they can’t put high damage on pets either, so it’s a lose-lose situation that anet forced themselves into.

3. Most of slot skills across all classes are useless, bland and uninspiring, or both. Fixing them is not on the list of things Anet intends to do – not in a reasonable time frame at lest. I admit, some of the worst offenders like ranger signets or ele conjures have been fixed, but most of the skills are just a mire of hopeless mediocrity, and elites are often worse than utility skills. Some classes are better off with racial skills and it’s telling.

4. Some mechanics were clearly designed to be flashy with no heed to actual gameplay, like mesmer clones/phantasms. Any pattern of pve design you can conceive features extensive aoes. However, mesmer’s dps in almost every build is still tied to illusions that have no hope of surviving long enough to be relevant – hell, until recently they often did not survive long enough to pull off one attack sequence, and they still often die in under 1 second.

In pvp the mechanic is somewhat healthy, but combined with condition spam (from the said illusions as well) it clearly lacks viable counterplay. Anet are not concerned, they slap even more of low-interaction mechanics like stealth and damage immunity on the same class, meaning the entire class is reduced to basically an overpowered gimmick.

5. Skill combo mechanics is mostly pointless, being a swamp of pathetic effects with an occasional valuable interaction hidden here and there. However, the mechanic is too uncontrollable (in favor of being usable by total strangers with no thought of teamplay and coordination) and it can be screwed up by random guardians spamming light fields over you fire/water. Not only that, but some classes have neither decent combo fields nor finishers – necro and mesmer are leading the charts of useless combos, and engineer is pigeon-holed into certain builds to be useful.

6. A special mention to Ranger sword #1 and animation locks, because it’s totally another level of kittened design all on its own. Nothing is said or done after two and a half years of incessant whining, which is also indicative of how much anet value healthy and interactive design.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Do we have any confirmation that either of them are even Legends?

Shiro, no. So far, that’s just wishful thinking (though not without reason).

Glint, however, well, look at the final screenshot here.

The old classes get new weapons and mastered

Means different builds and new animations/tech on top of it.

All will be gravy

the shadowdove.2749:

The old classes get new weapons and mastered

Means different builds and new animations/tech on top of it.

All will be gravy

Only true of specializations, unspecialized classes will not have any of that.

I’m sure Necro and revenant will be able to live side by side in harmony. Just as necro has been top tier meta for organized parties.

Can I remind everyone that the heal skill has a 30s cooldown?
I’ve seen like a dozen posts saying that the heal has no cooldown.

DocZed.6973:

Can I remind everyone that the heal skill has a 30s cooldown?
I’ve seen like a dozen posts saying that the heal has no cooldown.

Speaking of which do we know if their heals share the same cooldown? Like if they use mallyx heal and then swap to jalis.

Rehero.7821:

DocZed.6973:

Can I remind everyone that the heal skill has a 30s cooldown?
I’ve seen like a dozen posts saying that the heal has no cooldown.

Speaking of which do we know if their heals share the same cooldown? Like if they use mallyx heal and then swap to jalis.

They have separate cooldowns.

I guess the problem is that as they stand, our current classes are essentially from a 2 – 5 year old game. They haven’t added new skills, they had barely any new traits for 2 whole years since release.

Its not a surprise the revenant looks so much cooler, its like comparing the graphics of a ps3 game to a ps1 game.

Xae Isareth.1364:

I guess the problem is that as they stand, our current classes are essentially from a 2 – 5 year old game. They haven’t added new skills, they had barely any new traits for 2 whole years since release.

Its not a surprise the revenant looks so much cooler, its like comparing the graphics of a ps3 game to a ps1 game.

The specializations should catch the others up pretty well. I’m personally expecting conversion rates to be really high for mains, (probably lower for alts), mostly for this reason.

Hopefully, they throw a fresh coat of paint (so to speak) on the old profs with the xpan. I really have no desire for my Ranger to become a Druid. Sure I’ll tinker with it, but it just doesn’t fit the vision of my character, so I’ll inevitably remain a plain old Ranger.

I’m sure they will. For instance I highly suspect existing skills like Time Warp elite will get additional slow condition to enemies while granting quickness to allies. Well that is my expectation anyway but I won’t be super disappointed if it doesn’t happen. The core class is already really fun.

If specializations are really a choice then I see them adding stuff to existing professions as well. Just like before how they didn’t allow trait switching until you had visited a trainer and repairing costing money.

Those rules didn’t really have a strong justification and they were done away with.

Gotta remember Anet are really iterative. While for right now you have to specialize into a Druid in order to use their skills and some from the Ranger, who’s to say they won’t allow you to be a Ranger with access to a few druidic skills eventually?

But regardless I’m highly doubtful there will be nothing new for core professions in the expansion. Seems weird to say “here you get specializations, if you don’t like em then nothing new for you!”

Kaleban.9834:

The problem with the Revenant is the kinetic nature of the class and its skill effects makes even Eles look slow and sad. Along with the OP, I’m hoping ANet will update “the look” of all existing professions with HoT, to give the same “feel” as the Revenant for the existing professions, but based just on the abysmal handling of skill balance and the length of time it takes to get stat fixes, that hope is not very confident.

You are making me depressed :C

Gulesave.5073:

Xae Isareth.1364:

I guess the problem is that as they stand, our current classes are essentially from a 2 – 5 year old game. They haven’t added new skills, they had barely any new traits for 2 whole years since release.

Its not a surprise the revenant looks so much cooler, its like comparing the graphics of a ps3 game to a ps1 game.

The specializations should catch the others up pretty well. I’m personally expecting conversion rates to be really high for mains, (probably lower for alts), mostly for this reason.

Yes, that is why we were talking about base classes. I’d rather not see them abandoned because all the cool toys are elsewhere.

Didn’t read all the posts but sounds like this is how it went down at an ARENANET strategy meeting.

Person 1: How do we get everyone to buy the new expansion?
Person 2: lets make a superclass that will appear (or actually be) so OP that everyone will want to roll one.
Person 1: Sounds great. Once everyone has bought it and the rest of the community starts to QQ hard we can release a “balance patch” to nerf Revanant to the ground.
Person 2: HAHAHA ….love it!

Disclaimer: Person 1 and Person 2 are fictional characters and any resemblence to any person living or dead is entirely coincidental.