Guild Wars 2

Fox.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

binidj.5734:

SkiTz.4590:

If you think the casual that play 2 hours a day deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the guy playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues, than something is wrong with your logic. You have to earn it.

People who bust their rear deserve better rewards than some guy logging in a couple hours a week.

How about the casual that plays 6 hours a day? Does s/he deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the person playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues? Let’s compare like with like here. Is your time more worthy of reward than mine? If so, why?

The fact you use casual and six hours a day in the same line… You clearly have no idea what casually playing a game while having a job means. Skins may be gated but A-Net will never gate power, wich is why i love this game.

There are in fact, many “hard-core” casuals. I’m one of them. I play more than 6 hours a day, every day since launch, and I still consider myself casual, in that my style of play is casual. I’m not particularly looking for challenging content (though I’ve done everything but Liadri).

The problem with challenging content for me is that I live in Tasmania and many people live in places where their ping/lag is quite high. Which means that Liadri is harder for me than it is for someone in the US with good point, but we get the same reward for it.

A lot of people are playing this game on potatos. I’m not but I still live far enough away that I have an unfair disadvantage. So yeah, competitive stuff for me is annoying at best, because even if I’m equal in skill to someone with lower ping, I’m likely to lose a fight.

So if a reward, like the Liadri mini, is offered for something I can’t do, and at this time I can’t do Sanctum Sprint at all, because one of the skills you need to lightning jump to a tower always throws me over the tower…it’s just not all that fair in the first place.

So if there are things I want, it’s not always possible to get them no matter how hard I work…unless you’re suggesting I sell the house and move my family to the US. Which would be a bit overkill for a mini. lol

In this logic A-Net should just shut down the game cause people who don’t have internet connection can’t get any rewards. While i do understand your problem, and i’m sorry for you, you cannot possibly expect the reward system to be based on your personal connection.

Here’s the thing, there are some things you can’t do, to bad for you, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be rewards for people that can, as for unique skins, bohoo you’ll miss a few, i miss a few to, from the 1 year i was moving constantly and didn’t have time to play GW2 due to personal stuff. But i don’t think for one second that my personal situation should affect others enjoyment of the game. And the simple fact is, if you don’t tie some unique rewards to hard and challenging content, you’ll loose many people’s attention for it. In any other mmo these people would have better stats then you, and that would be horrible, but in this one, the only thing achievable is visual updates, and if you can’t accept that some people will have acces to skins you don’t, then quite frankly you should stop playing.

Mmo’s have always worked like this, in fact GW2 has even worked like this. So why all the drama all of a sudden? Prestige has always been a part of whatever online game, cause people like to show off what they have done. There isn’t anything wrong with that. I’m sure there will be tons of skins that you can get outside of these hardcore options, as is quite obvious seeing the number of skins already available. If you really want a skin, you can always try for it, i personally really want the pvp backpiece but i won’t ever reach that level, it’s a bit sad to me, but i understand it. If it’s really your internet connection keeping you down, then i’m sorry for you, but that is an issue at your end, even tough it possibly can’t be helped. Tough luck.

You can’t always get everything you want, buying the game does not entitle you to have loot trown at you.

It’s NOT my personal connection. Every single person in Australia, which is probably more than 2 of us, has this problem. Half the people in the world in rural areas will have similar problems. What percentage of the playerbase do you think plays on machines fast enough to get the job done AND have good Internet connections.

If they make that game for that percentage, even if it’s 50%, and I don’t think it is, that means 50% of the playerbase is pretty much screwed. If you think that’s good business, I don’t really know what to tell you.

You seem to think living in a foreign country is a personal problem. I think thinking that way is a personal problem.

troll post, troll life, troll thread… It is not even base on any kind of argumentation or logic.
I would love to see OP point of view apply to real life and see how it turns out…

As for PorceleinEve … we meet again. I kinda start to think you’re my nemesis^^
I really like to do challenging content for the fun. I use to run fractal 50+ (before fotm rework) with my friends just to get something hard to fight against and use the awesome mecanics of this game, because I have no need in any others dungeons. Was it for the skin… well yeah ofc we wanted to get fotm skin, they look nice (not all of them tbh) and I still have them equiped on most of my chars even now they become very easy to get (and soon to be way easier with HoT).
Players wants hard content to test themselves. How great it is when you finally succeed when you’ve spend a lot of time trying and failing. Is it only to feel better than those who don’t manage to succed? Yes, ofc it is. Everyone like to feel better than the others. Liadri was the perfect proof of that. And guess what, everyone in my guild that defeated her have kept doing it after because we found it fun to finally have something that require more than 1111111111111 to win.
I guess my point is, there is a decent amount of players that love hard content for the hard encounter and there is also a decent amount of players that want it for the glory. And I don’t see what’s wrong with that. What makes you buy one type of clothes instead of another or wanna do one job instead of another? You can tell to yourself “because I love that” but you “love that” because in some way it makes you unique. And that’s fine to seek for “glory” and “uniqueness”.

Also don’t forget that GW2 is a game mostly based on skin, so the “coolest” stuff must not be “i want so give it to me” but should require players to get involve. But I got tbh, maudrey was a bit TOO grindy for me and was a pain in my… to craft but I just made it because I like it so much. There are other item like that in this game that I find nice but don’t want to spend time on it (baltha backpack ) so I guess I should feel frustrated and ask Anet to send it to me or to buy it from a vendor for XXgold… I think most items lose a lot of theirs value (and that feeling of “yes finally”) if you don’t have to “work” to get it.

PS: There are games that are only hard content and I don’t think that’s a good idea either. But GW2 won’t be one of those game anyway since vanilla will still be easy as F.

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

binidj.5734:

SkiTz.4590:

If you think the casual that play 2 hours a day deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the guy playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues, than something is wrong with your logic. You have to earn it.

People who bust their rear deserve better rewards than some guy logging in a couple hours a week.

How about the casual that plays 6 hours a day? Does s/he deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the person playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues? Let’s compare like with like here. Is your time more worthy of reward than mine? If so, why?

The fact you use casual and six hours a day in the same line… You clearly have no idea what casually playing a game while having a job means. Skins may be gated but A-Net will never gate power, wich is why i love this game.

There are in fact, many “hard-core” casuals. I’m one of them. I play more than 6 hours a day, every day since launch, and I still consider myself casual, in that my style of play is casual. I’m not particularly looking for challenging content (though I’ve done everything but Liadri).

The problem with challenging content for me is that I live in Tasmania and many people live in places where their ping/lag is quite high. Which means that Liadri is harder for me than it is for someone in the US with good point, but we get the same reward for it.

A lot of people are playing this game on potatos. I’m not but I still live far enough away that I have an unfair disadvantage. So yeah, competitive stuff for me is annoying at best, because even if I’m equal in skill to someone with lower ping, I’m likely to lose a fight.

So if a reward, like the Liadri mini, is offered for something I can’t do, and at this time I can’t do Sanctum Sprint at all, because one of the skills you need to lightning jump to a tower always throws me over the tower…it’s just not all that fair in the first place.

So if there are things I want, it’s not always possible to get them no matter how hard I work…unless you’re suggesting I sell the house and move my family to the US. Which would be a bit overkill for a mini. lol

In this logic A-Net should just shut down the game cause people who don’t have internet connection can’t get any rewards. While i do understand your problem, and i’m sorry for you, you cannot possibly expect the reward system to be based on your personal connection.

Here’s the thing, there are some things you can’t do, to bad for you, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be rewards for people that can, as for unique skins, bohoo you’ll miss a few, i miss a few to, from the 1 year i was moving constantly and didn’t have time to play GW2 due to personal stuff. But i don’t think for one second that my personal situation should affect others enjoyment of the game. And the simple fact is, if you don’t tie some unique rewards to hard and challenging content, you’ll loose many people’s attention for it. In any other mmo these people would have better stats then you, and that would be horrible, but in this one, the only thing achievable is visual updates, and if you can’t accept that some people will have acces to skins you don’t, then quite frankly you should stop playing.

Mmo’s have always worked like this, in fact GW2 has even worked like this. So why all the drama all of a sudden? Prestige has always been a part of whatever online game, cause people like to show off what they have done. There isn’t anything wrong with that. I’m sure there will be tons of skins that you can get outside of these hardcore options, as is quite obvious seeing the number of skins already available. If you really want a skin, you can always try for it, i personally really want the pvp backpiece but i won’t ever reach that level, it’s a bit sad to me, but i understand it. If it’s really your internet connection keeping you down, then i’m sorry for you, but that is an issue at your end, even tough it possibly can’t be helped. Tough luck.

You can’t always get everything you want, buying the game does not entitle you to have loot trown at you.

It’s NOT my personal connection. Every single person in Australia, which is probably more than 2 of us, has this problem. Half the people in the world in rural areas will have similar problems. What percentage of the playerbase do you think plays on machines fast enough to get the job done AND have good Internet connections.

If they make that game for that percentage, even if it’s 50%, and I don’t think it is, that means 50% of the playerbase is pretty much screwed. If you think that’s good business, I don’t really know what to tell you.

You seem to think living in a foreign country is a personal problem. I think thinking that way is a personal problem.

Which means because some part of the playerbase has ping problems they shouldn’t implement more challenging encounters in the game. They should create only encounters that are doable with 500 ping and at 10 fps with potato computers? What kind of logic is this?

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

binidj.5734:

SkiTz.4590:

If you think the casual that play 2 hours a day deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the guy playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues, than something is wrong with your logic. You have to earn it.

People who bust their rear deserve better rewards than some guy logging in a couple hours a week.

How about the casual that plays 6 hours a day? Does s/he deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the person playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues? Let’s compare like with like here. Is your time more worthy of reward than mine? If so, why?

The fact you use casual and six hours a day in the same line… You clearly have no idea what casually playing a game while having a job means. Skins may be gated but A-Net will never gate power, wich is why i love this game.

There are in fact, many “hard-core” casuals. I’m one of them. I play more than 6 hours a day, every day since launch, and I still consider myself casual, in that my style of play is casual. I’m not particularly looking for challenging content (though I’ve done everything but Liadri).

The problem with challenging content for me is that I live in Tasmania and many people live in places where their ping/lag is quite high. Which means that Liadri is harder for me than it is for someone in the US with good point, but we get the same reward for it.

A lot of people are playing this game on potatos. I’m not but I still live far enough away that I have an unfair disadvantage. So yeah, competitive stuff for me is annoying at best, because even if I’m equal in skill to someone with lower ping, I’m likely to lose a fight.

So if a reward, like the Liadri mini, is offered for something I can’t do, and at this time I can’t do Sanctum Sprint at all, because one of the skills you need to lightning jump to a tower always throws me over the tower…it’s just not all that fair in the first place.

So if there are things I want, it’s not always possible to get them no matter how hard I work…unless you’re suggesting I sell the house and move my family to the US. Which would be a bit overkill for a mini. lol

In this logic A-Net should just shut down the game cause people who don’t have internet connection can’t get any rewards. While i do understand your problem, and i’m sorry for you, you cannot possibly expect the reward system to be based on your personal connection.

Here’s the thing, there are some things you can’t do, to bad for you, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be rewards for people that can, as for unique skins, bohoo you’ll miss a few, i miss a few to, from the 1 year i was moving constantly and didn’t have time to play GW2 due to personal stuff. But i don’t think for one second that my personal situation should affect others enjoyment of the game. And the simple fact is, if you don’t tie some unique rewards to hard and challenging content, you’ll loose many people’s attention for it. In any other mmo these people would have better stats then you, and that would be horrible, but in this one, the only thing achievable is visual updates, and if you can’t accept that some people will have acces to skins you don’t, then quite frankly you should stop playing.

Mmo’s have always worked like this, in fact GW2 has even worked like this. So why all the drama all of a sudden? Prestige has always been a part of whatever online game, cause people like to show off what they have done. There isn’t anything wrong with that. I’m sure there will be tons of skins that you can get outside of these hardcore options, as is quite obvious seeing the number of skins already available. If you really want a skin, you can always try for it, i personally really want the pvp backpiece but i won’t ever reach that level, it’s a bit sad to me, but i understand it. If it’s really your internet connection keeping you down, then i’m sorry for you, but that is an issue at your end, even tough it possibly can’t be helped. Tough luck.

You can’t always get everything you want, buying the game does not entitle you to have loot trown at you.

It’s NOT my personal connection. Every single person in Australia, which is probably more than 2 of us, has this problem. Half the people in the world in rural areas will have similar problems. What percentage of the playerbase do you think plays on machines fast enough to get the job done AND have good Internet connections.

If they make that game for that percentage, even if it’s 50%, and I don’t think it is, that means 50% of the playerbase is pretty much screwed. If you think that’s good business, I don’t really know what to tell you.

You seem to think living in a foreign country is a personal problem. I think thinking that way is a personal problem.

Which means because some part of the playerbase has ping problems they shouldn’t implement more challenging encounters in the game. They should create only encounters that are doable with 500 ping and at 10 fps with potato computers? What kind of logic is this?

The logic is learn to read. That’s the logic. I said make it so that the rewards can be sold so if you really want one, and your ping isnt’ there, you can still get it. If you want challenging content. No problem. If you want rewards that no one else can get because you have some deep seated need to show off and you think people will be impressed by it, there’s not much else I can say.

My suggestion is a compromise. Give people hard content but don’t shut out people from the rewards who physically can’t get them. That’s not in any way unreasonable, no matter how hard you try to make it sound that way.

Vayne.8563:

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

binidj.5734:

SkiTz.4590:

If you think the casual that play 2 hours a day deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the guy playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues, than something is wrong with your logic. You have to earn it.

People who bust their rear deserve better rewards than some guy logging in a couple hours a week.

How about the casual that plays 6 hours a day? Does s/he deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the person playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues? Let’s compare like with like here. Is your time more worthy of reward than mine? If so, why?

The fact you use casual and six hours a day in the same line… You clearly have no idea what casually playing a game while having a job means. Skins may be gated but A-Net will never gate power, wich is why i love this game.

There are in fact, many “hard-core” casuals. I’m one of them. I play more than 6 hours a day, every day since launch, and I still consider myself casual, in that my style of play is casual. I’m not particularly looking for challenging content (though I’ve done everything but Liadri).

The problem with challenging content for me is that I live in Tasmania and many people live in places where their ping/lag is quite high. Which means that Liadri is harder for me than it is for someone in the US with good point, but we get the same reward for it.

A lot of people are playing this game on potatos. I’m not but I still live far enough away that I have an unfair disadvantage. So yeah, competitive stuff for me is annoying at best, because even if I’m equal in skill to someone with lower ping, I’m likely to lose a fight.

So if a reward, like the Liadri mini, is offered for something I can’t do, and at this time I can’t do Sanctum Sprint at all, because one of the skills you need to lightning jump to a tower always throws me over the tower…it’s just not all that fair in the first place.

So if there are things I want, it’s not always possible to get them no matter how hard I work…unless you’re suggesting I sell the house and move my family to the US. Which would be a bit overkill for a mini. lol

In this logic A-Net should just shut down the game cause people who don’t have internet connection can’t get any rewards. While i do understand your problem, and i’m sorry for you, you cannot possibly expect the reward system to be based on your personal connection.

Here’s the thing, there are some things you can’t do, to bad for you, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be rewards for people that can, as for unique skins, bohoo you’ll miss a few, i miss a few to, from the 1 year i was moving constantly and didn’t have time to play GW2 due to personal stuff. But i don’t think for one second that my personal situation should affect others enjoyment of the game. And the simple fact is, if you don’t tie some unique rewards to hard and challenging content, you’ll loose many people’s attention for it. In any other mmo these people would have better stats then you, and that would be horrible, but in this one, the only thing achievable is visual updates, and if you can’t accept that some people will have acces to skins you don’t, then quite frankly you should stop playing.

Mmo’s have always worked like this, in fact GW2 has even worked like this. So why all the drama all of a sudden? Prestige has always been a part of whatever online game, cause people like to show off what they have done. There isn’t anything wrong with that. I’m sure there will be tons of skins that you can get outside of these hardcore options, as is quite obvious seeing the number of skins already available. If you really want a skin, you can always try for it, i personally really want the pvp backpiece but i won’t ever reach that level, it’s a bit sad to me, but i understand it. If it’s really your internet connection keeping you down, then i’m sorry for you, but that is an issue at your end, even tough it possibly can’t be helped. Tough luck.

You can’t always get everything you want, buying the game does not entitle you to have loot trown at you.

It’s NOT my personal connection. Every single person in Australia, which is probably more than 2 of us, has this problem. Half the people in the world in rural areas will have similar problems. What percentage of the playerbase do you think plays on machines fast enough to get the job done AND have good Internet connections.

If they make that game for that percentage, even if it’s 50%, and I don’t think it is, that means 50% of the playerbase is pretty much screwed. If you think that’s good business, I don’t really know what to tell you.

You seem to think living in a foreign country is a personal problem. I think thinking that way is a personal problem.

Which means because some part of the playerbase has ping problems they shouldn’t implement more challenging encounters in the game. They should create only encounters that are doable with 500 ping and at 10 fps with potato computers? What kind of logic is this?

The logic is learn to read. That’s the logic. I said make it so that the rewards can be sold so if you really want one, and your ping isnt’ there, you can still get it. If you want challenging content. No problem. If you want rewards that no one else can get because you have some deep seated need to show off and you think people will be impressed by it, there’s not much else I can say.

My suggestion is a compromise. Give people hard content but don’t shut out people from the rewards who physically can’t get them. That’s not in any way unreasonable, no matter how hard you try to make it sound that way.

Worse idea ever. If there is a problem with the game, it’s exactly this.. Everybody can buy nearly every item, being it with cash, being it with an ingame currency. Resulting in grind, grind grind (for those currency’s), making the game boring for many people eventually having them leave.

We don’t need more items people can ‘buy’ we need less of them, way less, they need to be replaced with rewards being… well rewarded for specific content or challenge.

Those rewards give goals, add to the content and incentive people to do all those types on content.

So, are you saying if given the choice between ‘buying’ the reward, and completing specific content, most will opt to ‘buy’?

If not, then why can’t there be both options?

If yes, then I guess most show they prefer to ‘grind’, as you put it, over disparate content.

Vayne.8563:

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

binidj.5734:

SkiTz.4590:

If you think the casual that play 2 hours a day deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the guy playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues, than something is wrong with your logic. You have to earn it.

People who bust their rear deserve better rewards than some guy logging in a couple hours a week.

How about the casual that plays 6 hours a day? Does s/he deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the person playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues? Let’s compare like with like here. Is your time more worthy of reward than mine? If so, why?

The fact you use casual and six hours a day in the same line… You clearly have no idea what casually playing a game while having a job means. Skins may be gated but A-Net will never gate power, wich is why i love this game.

There are in fact, many “hard-core” casuals. I’m one of them. I play more than 6 hours a day, every day since launch, and I still consider myself casual, in that my style of play is casual. I’m not particularly looking for challenging content (though I’ve done everything but Liadri).

The problem with challenging content for me is that I live in Tasmania and many people live in places where their ping/lag is quite high. Which means that Liadri is harder for me than it is for someone in the US with good point, but we get the same reward for it.

A lot of people are playing this game on potatos. I’m not but I still live far enough away that I have an unfair disadvantage. So yeah, competitive stuff for me is annoying at best, because even if I’m equal in skill to someone with lower ping, I’m likely to lose a fight.

So if a reward, like the Liadri mini, is offered for something I can’t do, and at this time I can’t do Sanctum Sprint at all, because one of the skills you need to lightning jump to a tower always throws me over the tower…it’s just not all that fair in the first place.

So if there are things I want, it’s not always possible to get them no matter how hard I work…unless you’re suggesting I sell the house and move my family to the US. Which would be a bit overkill for a mini. lol

In this logic A-Net should just shut down the game cause people who don’t have internet connection can’t get any rewards. While i do understand your problem, and i’m sorry for you, you cannot possibly expect the reward system to be based on your personal connection.

Here’s the thing, there are some things you can’t do, to bad for you, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be rewards for people that can, as for unique skins, bohoo you’ll miss a few, i miss a few to, from the 1 year i was moving constantly and didn’t have time to play GW2 due to personal stuff. But i don’t think for one second that my personal situation should affect others enjoyment of the game. And the simple fact is, if you don’t tie some unique rewards to hard and challenging content, you’ll loose many people’s attention for it. In any other mmo these people would have better stats then you, and that would be horrible, but in this one, the only thing achievable is visual updates, and if you can’t accept that some people will have acces to skins you don’t, then quite frankly you should stop playing.

Mmo’s have always worked like this, in fact GW2 has even worked like this. So why all the drama all of a sudden? Prestige has always been a part of whatever online game, cause people like to show off what they have done. There isn’t anything wrong with that. I’m sure there will be tons of skins that you can get outside of these hardcore options, as is quite obvious seeing the number of skins already available. If you really want a skin, you can always try for it, i personally really want the pvp backpiece but i won’t ever reach that level, it’s a bit sad to me, but i understand it. If it’s really your internet connection keeping you down, then i’m sorry for you, but that is an issue at your end, even tough it possibly can’t be helped. Tough luck.

You can’t always get everything you want, buying the game does not entitle you to have loot trown at you.

It’s NOT my personal connection. Every single person in Australia, which is probably more than 2 of us, has this problem. Half the people in the world in rural areas will have similar problems. What percentage of the playerbase do you think plays on machines fast enough to get the job done AND have good Internet connections.

If they make that game for that percentage, even if it’s 50%, and I don’t think it is, that means 50% of the playerbase is pretty much screwed. If you think that’s good business, I don’t really know what to tell you.

You seem to think living in a foreign country is a personal problem. I think thinking that way is a personal problem.

Which means because some part of the playerbase has ping problems they shouldn’t implement more challenging encounters in the game. They should create only encounters that are doable with 500 ping and at 10 fps with potato computers? What kind of logic is this?

The logic is learn to read. That’s the logic. I said make it so that the rewards can be sold so if you really want one, and your ping isnt’ there, you can still get it. If you want challenging content. No problem. If you want rewards that no one else can get because you have some deep seated need to show off and you think people will be impressed by it, there’s not much else I can say.

My suggestion is a compromise. Give people hard content but don’t shut out people from the rewards who physically can’t get them. That’s not in any way unreasonable, no matter how hard you try to make it sound that way.

There are a few ways to solve that problem. With current dungeons you can sell slots for a chance at the loot. If that’s available with their challenging group content once players master it, it might be one solution.

The other way is to make things that drop in the dungeon available on the TP. I don’t like that at all, it would mean a super heavy RNG behind those items to keep them rare and expensive. See, what happens with some recipies available through content and how cheap they are because they drop often. So unless it’s like GW1 and has an excessive grind, the items will be rather cheap and in some way pointless. To counter this, the non-unique rewards of that content need to be on par (or even higher) than what you can get from other parts of the game.

Still, the “fun” part will be diminissed the moment they add ultra heavy RNG behind their challenging group content. You see what I liked the most about Liadri was the 100% chance of getting her achievement and the title/mini. Imagine if there was some heavy RNG behind the Liadri fight and made the mini available on the TP…. I doubt it would end well.

I don’t care if they somehow find a way to make those rewards available on the TP so everyone can get them, good for everyone I guess. I’m not opposed to it, they can do whatever they want with that. Let everyone get all items from the challenging group content for 10g. I just hate RNG with a passion and if I had to choose between making them exclusive but with less RNG, and available to everyone but behind heavy RNG, I’d pick exclusive any day.

tl;dr
To me, challenging group content is a good way for Anet to rethink how they reward players and finally make some content that is rewarding for doing it, and not praying to the RNG gods. I want to replace “RNG” with “challenge”. If they can keep everyone happy and put all things on the market then sure go for it. But Challenge > RNG should be their first and foremost priority.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So, are you saying if given the choice between ‘buying’ the reward, and completing specific content, most will opt to ‘buy’?

If not, then why can’t there be both options?

If yes, then I guess most show they prefer to ‘grind’, as you put it, over disparate content.

It’s simple. To keep those items expensive enough and not drop them to a few coppers a piece they need to be behind some insane RNG. That’s what’s terrible with putting everything on the TP. I’m afraid if they put everything on the TP, to keep prices up, there will be some insane RNG like the current fractal weapons.

Challenging Group Content is an excellent way for Arenanet to start rewarding players correctly, reward players for doing specific (hard) content and not fighting for the RNG god favor. Everything else has insane RNG, can we have at least one part of the game in PVE that doesn’t involve so much RNG?

Although I’m not the best PVPer in the world I still like how they did the Legendary backpack in PVP. You know what? Because there is very little RNG or grind involved. Can’t we have something like this in PVE too?

I’m all for playing hard/challenging content just for the challenge of it. But if there is some reward I’m supposed to get and after 200 runs I still don’t have it, then it’s no longer fun. There is no “challenge” in RNG.

Vayne.8563:

People are fond of comparing this game to Guild Wars 1. There was very little in Guild Wars 1 that couldn’t be purchased with gold. Arguably, the hardest weapons to attain were the weapons from DOA, or maybe rare stuff like the celestial compass, the bonecage scythe, the frog scepter or the voltaic spear.

All these high end items were available to sell. You didn’t have to be great to get them. You could farm feathers in a low end zone over and over till you could afford to purchase them.

No one in Guild Wars 1 seemed that riled that their rewards weren’t exclusive. It allowed players who wanted challenge to do challenging content and profit. It allowed less intense players to have the rewards.

I think this is the best solution all the way around.

To those who support those hard core rewards, I guarantee you if there are enough rewards casual players can’t get, you won’t have enough players left to continue running the game. Casuals, in my opinion, make a vast percentage of the playerbase. The more you put out of their reach, the more of them you lose.

I agree casuals make a vast percentage of the playerbase. I disagree that enough players would literally quit the game to kill GW2 because a skin exists that they can’t get.

You can’t get the fractal capacitor backpiece without doing tons of fractals. You can’t get Glorious armor without doing PvP. No one seems up in arms about it.

I think adding an item or two to each game mode that is exclusive to that game mode is a good thing, not a bad thing. Not all good players are hardcore, and not all bad players are casual. I consider myself casual and a good player. I would like to be able to casually work towards that legendary fractal back-piece, no matter how long it takes me, and I would hate if someone who doesn’t even do fractals has access to it.

ill be honest here, the people complaining are not casuals. they are hard core, but in a different way.
completionist= hardcore
grinder = hardcore

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

binidj.5734:

SkiTz.4590:

If you think the casual that play 2 hours a day deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the guy playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues, than something is wrong with your logic. You have to earn it.

People who bust their rear deserve better rewards than some guy logging in a couple hours a week.

How about the casual that plays 6 hours a day? Does s/he deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the person playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues? Let’s compare like with like here. Is your time more worthy of reward than mine? If so, why?

The fact you use casual and six hours a day in the same line… You clearly have no idea what casually playing a game while having a job means. Skins may be gated but A-Net will never gate power, wich is why i love this game.

There are in fact, many “hard-core” casuals. I’m one of them. I play more than 6 hours a day, every day since launch, and I still consider myself casual, in that my style of play is casual. I’m not particularly looking for challenging content (though I’ve done everything but Liadri).

The problem with challenging content for me is that I live in Tasmania and many people live in places where their ping/lag is quite high. Which means that Liadri is harder for me than it is for someone in the US with good point, but we get the same reward for it.

A lot of people are playing this game on potatos. I’m not but I still live far enough away that I have an unfair disadvantage. So yeah, competitive stuff for me is annoying at best, because even if I’m equal in skill to someone with lower ping, I’m likely to lose a fight.

So if a reward, like the Liadri mini, is offered for something I can’t do, and at this time I can’t do Sanctum Sprint at all, because one of the skills you need to lightning jump to a tower always throws me over the tower…it’s just not all that fair in the first place.

So if there are things I want, it’s not always possible to get them no matter how hard I work…unless you’re suggesting I sell the house and move my family to the US. Which would be a bit overkill for a mini. lol

In this logic A-Net should just shut down the game cause people who don’t have internet connection can’t get any rewards. While i do understand your problem, and i’m sorry for you, you cannot possibly expect the reward system to be based on your personal connection.

Here’s the thing, there are some things you can’t do, to bad for you, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be rewards for people that can, as for unique skins, bohoo you’ll miss a few, i miss a few to, from the 1 year i was moving constantly and didn’t have time to play GW2 due to personal stuff. But i don’t think for one second that my personal situation should affect others enjoyment of the game. And the simple fact is, if you don’t tie some unique rewards to hard and challenging content, you’ll loose many people’s attention for it. In any other mmo these people would have better stats then you, and that would be horrible, but in this one, the only thing achievable is visual updates, and if you can’t accept that some people will have acces to skins you don’t, then quite frankly you should stop playing.

Mmo’s have always worked like this, in fact GW2 has even worked like this. So why all the drama all of a sudden? Prestige has always been a part of whatever online game, cause people like to show off what they have done. There isn’t anything wrong with that. I’m sure there will be tons of skins that you can get outside of these hardcore options, as is quite obvious seeing the number of skins already available. If you really want a skin, you can always try for it, i personally really want the pvp backpiece but i won’t ever reach that level, it’s a bit sad to me, but i understand it. If it’s really your internet connection keeping you down, then i’m sorry for you, but that is an issue at your end, even tough it possibly can’t be helped. Tough luck.

You can’t always get everything you want, buying the game does not entitle you to have loot trown at you.

It’s NOT my personal connection. Every single person in Australia, which is probably more than 2 of us, has this problem. Half the people in the world in rural areas will have similar problems. What percentage of the playerbase do you think plays on machines fast enough to get the job done AND have good Internet connections.

If they make that game for that percentage, even if it’s 50%, and I don’t think it is, that means 50% of the playerbase is pretty much screwed. If you think that’s good business, I don’t really know what to tell you.

You seem to think living in a foreign country is a personal problem. I think thinking that way is a personal problem.

Which means because some part of the playerbase has ping problems they shouldn’t implement more challenging encounters in the game. They should create only encounters that are doable with 500 ping and at 10 fps with potato computers? What kind of logic is this?

The logic is learn to read. That’s the logic. I said make it so that the rewards can be sold so if you really want one, and your ping isnt’ there, you can still get it. If you want challenging content. No problem. If you want rewards that no one else can get because you have some deep seated need to show off and you think people will be impressed by it, there’s not much else I can say.

My suggestion is a compromise. Give people hard content but don’t shut out people from the rewards who physically can’t get them. That’s not in any way unreasonable, no matter how hard you try to make it sound that way.

Worse idea ever. If there is a problem with the game, it’s exactly this.. Everybody can buy nearly every item, being it with cash, being it with an ingame currency. Resulting in grind, grind grind (for those currency’s), making the game boring for many people eventually having them leave.

We don’t need more items people can ‘buy’ we need less of them, way less, they need to be replaced with rewards being… well rewarded for specific content or challenge.

Those rewards give goals, add to the content and incentive people to do all those types on content.

Funny because Guild Wars 1 was like this. You could pretty much buy and sell everything and no one seemed to have a problem with it. Many people say this game should be more like Guild Wars 1. I say that’s a good place to start.

I think the underlying problem here is not the rewards or how challenging or hard something is. The issue many have at the moment is that they suspect that with this expansion the very “nature” or “character” of the game they love will change and become something different that they feel they won’t like. That’s why there’s such huge opposition to some of the changes.

At least that’s what i’m getting, and in all honesty that’s what i feel is happening. The rewards or the hardness of the content are irrelevant. It’s the worry that the very nature of the game will change, and for some there are no alternatives.

Draknar.5748:

Vayne.8563:

People are fond of comparing this game to Guild Wars 1. There was very little in Guild Wars 1 that couldn’t be purchased with gold. Arguably, the hardest weapons to attain were the weapons from DOA, or maybe rare stuff like the celestial compass, the bonecage scythe, the frog scepter or the voltaic spear.

All these high end items were available to sell. You didn’t have to be great to get them. You could farm feathers in a low end zone over and over till you could afford to purchase them.

No one in Guild Wars 1 seemed that riled that their rewards weren’t exclusive. It allowed players who wanted challenge to do challenging content and profit. It allowed less intense players to have the rewards.

I think this is the best solution all the way around.

To those who support those hard core rewards, I guarantee you if there are enough rewards casual players can’t get, you won’t have enough players left to continue running the game. Casuals, in my opinion, make a vast percentage of the playerbase. The more you put out of their reach, the more of them you lose.

I agree casuals make a vast percentage of the playerbase. I disagree that enough players would literally quit the game to kill GW2 because a skin exists that they can’t get.

You can’t get the fractal capacitor backpiece without doing tons of fractals. You can’t get Glorious armor without doing PvP. No one seems up in arms about it.

I think adding an item or two to each game mode that is exclusive to that game mode is a good thing, not a bad thing. Not all good players are hardcore, and not all bad players are casual. I consider myself casual and a good player. I would like to be able to casually work towards that legendary fractal back-piece, no matter how long it takes me, and I would hate if someone who doesn’t even do fractals has access to it.

Nah, I think there should be a mix.

However, what I am more talking about is the general currency way of doing things, that results in the grinding behavior. Like now, many items you can’t really get from doing specific content. None of the items with a general drop and none of the cash-shop items. The same btw holds true for items that drop from content that also gets grinded for the gold, like the world bosses.

It’s that mentality the game needs to lose, and it should move more towards the mentality you did see with Liadri.

So content you do for the challenge and the specific reward but not to grind gold. You can mix that a little with getting the item with a drop-rate (RNG), and you can make those items sellable, while those with a guaranteed drop you make account-bound.

That way, grinding does not become the only viable, and not even the most efficient way to get many items. While those that like to grind, still can for by many, if not most items… It’s just not the only / most viable option anymore.

“If yes, then I guess most show they prefer to ‘grind’, as you put it, over disparate content.” At this moment, the active playerbase GW2 has, likely exist of players that have no problem with the grin or that simply buy the items… or those that simply don’t care for those things and to WvW or PvP. Those that have got bored by the grind most likely have left by now.. however they also come back with HoT and that is the time to try and not lose them again.

It’s also not as easy as saying “if they do it, they must like it.”, first of all, then you forget about all those that left because they did not like it, for many items there simply is no other option at this moment and lastly it’s human nature to go for the most efficient way and that of least resistance.

So if they set themselves to a goal.. get skin x and they know they can easily get it by just doing a few world-bosses instead of completing some hard and challenging content, that is what most people will do. And again for the next item and the next and the next, and soon they will get bored, or are burned out by the game.

SkiTz.4590:

You realize 6 hours of doing PvE is already VASTLY more rewarding (materialistically speaking) than 6 hours of PvP

If you WANT the PvP legendary backpeice, you bust your butt off in PvP. That’s how it is. You already have plenty of access to legendaries in PvE…What’s wrong with PvP getting an exclusive one? If you want one, you are more than welcome to go into PvP..

To address your first point, you’re wrong, since the reward tracks were introduced, PvP has become FAR more rewarding. I wanted to deck a character of mine out with a full set of ambrite weapons, I was able to do that trivially in PvP; it would have taken me much longer in PvE. The same goes for dungeon skins, much easier to gain in PvP than by actually running dungeons.

As to your second point, it doesn’t matter how much I bust my butt off in PvP, I won’t be getting that backpiece. Would I like the backpiece? Yes, of course I would but I’m not going to get it, no matter how many hours I put in. Actually I don’t mind that too much, it’s annoying and I’d much rather it was a title or a mini but hey, I can’t have everything. Mind you, don’t you find it weird that the fact that the backpiece is legendary quality only has meaning in PvE and WvW environments? Makes me wonder why it wasn’t ascended quality, like all the other hard to get backpieces out there.

Actually PvP is an excellent example of the point of this thread: it doesn’t matter whether you win or lose, how skilled or otherwise you are; as long as you put in the hours, you can complete every reward track, and reach every rank. I could literally lose every single match and still advance to Dragon rank with a Balthazar backpack, and a full set of skins for all dungeons; it would just take time. I’m fine with that (even though it does mean that one day I will be the most appallingly inept Dragon rank in the game) because there are very few actual blocks to progress in PvP. I think there are a couple of armour (or weapon … I can’t remember) skins and soon this backpack, that I won’t ever get but pretty much everything else is achievable. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for PvE in HoT if the betas are anything to go by … though there are other threads that deal with the specifics of things like masteries.

Hard content is great for people who enjoy it (I really don’t) and I absolutely think it should be in the game; however I do think that it should be entirely optional and provide rewards that are (for the most part) achievable elsewhere, albeit for a greater investment of time.

PorceleinEve.2973:

I think the underlying problem here is not the rewards or how challenging or hard something is. The issue many have at the moment is that they suspect that with this expansion the very “nature” or “character” of the game they love will change and become something different that they feel they won’t like. That’s why there’s such huge opposition to some of the changes.

At least that’s what i’m getting, and in all honesty that’s what i feel is happening. The rewards or the hardness of the content are irrelevant. It’s the worry that the very nature of the game will change, and for some there are no alternatives.

That’s true. It can’t be the difficulty that is bothering players. There was no opposition when they put Fractal weapon skins in fractals, or putting the lumi set behind achievements in the silverwastes or the liadri mini behind liadri, or the new teq skins in tequatl loot. Yet the mere mention of challenging group content having exclusive rewards is causing a huge uproar as if it’s the end of the world.

How is the nature of the game going to change if they add some instanced challenging content? Assuming it’s instanced of course, because if it’s not, it will not be challenging no matter what they say so it’s irrelevant. How exactly is that going to affect the game so badly that players are afraid of it?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I don’t agree with this at all. If you complete harder content you should get better stuff, end of story.

Absolutely this. People shouldn’t get a ribbon just for showing up. Ribbon’s should always be handed out to those that deservedly won them.

Luckily this is an MMO meaning even those that don’t have good gaming skills or even the free time can eventually get the rewards they seek. Make friends and/or find a good guild that suits you and everything is attainable. I have one of the worst players I have ever seen in my guild and she has some of the coolest skins in the game because we all help each other out.

Difficulty and large time investments need unique rewards.

maddoctor.2738:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So, are you saying if given the choice between ‘buying’ the reward, and completing specific content, most will opt to ‘buy’?

If not, then why can’t there be both options?

If yes, then I guess most show they prefer to ‘grind’, as you put it, over disparate content.

It’s simple. To keep those items expensive enough and not drop them to a few coppers a piece they need to be behind some insane RNG. That’s what’s terrible with putting everything on the TP. I’m afraid if they put everything on the TP, to keep prices up, there will be some insane RNG like the current fractal weapons.

Challenging Group Content is an excellent way for Arenanet to start rewarding players correctly, reward players for doing specific (hard) content and not fighting for the RNG god favor. Everything else has insane RNG, can we have at least one part of the game in PVE that doesn’t involve so much RNG?

Although I’m not the best PVPer in the world I still like how they did the Legendary backpack in PVP. You know what? Because there is very little RNG or grind involved. Can’t we have something like this in PVE too?

I’m all for playing hard/challenging content just for the challenge of it. But if there is some reward I’m supposed to get and after 200 runs I still don’t have it, then it’s no longer fun. There is no “challenge” in RNG.

Insane RNG is only needed when you make an item a general drop, or simply drop something from content that also get grinded for its general good loot / gold.

In that case it does not even matter if you can trade it or not (while I still am in favor of also having items that are account-bound so it really is a reward for completing that content.).

It’s simple, if an item drops from 100 (just a reference number) mobs, drop-rate has to be 100 times smaller to get the same amount of them on the TP as when 1 mob drops it.

With the exception, if the one mob gets farmed by 500 people every day while your average mob would only get looted once a day. To get the same amount of them on the TP the drop-rate would then need to be 500 times lower. So that results in insane RNG numbers.

In the end, this is what results in the grind as because of the low drop-rate grinding becomes the only real way to get them.

If there are many different challenges / content / mobs that all drop their own specific items but not with other general good rewards (so they are not very interesting to grind for gold), the drop-rate can be way more doable without having to many of the items on the TP. Sure people still have the option to farm the item just to sell it, but if to many people do that with the same item, prices will drop making it again less interesting to grind them.

That is why the current approach creates a lot of grind, but this approach prevents it, while those who want still can. Mix that with some items that are indeed account-bound and imho you would have the perfect world, where those who prefer to brainlessly grind, still can for most items, however the game does not feel as grindy as it now does and those rewards that are account-bound do feel much more as a real reward.

Devata.6589:

<snip>

As I see it, Items on the market = RNG. Even if only the final boss drops a specific item if it’s not account bound it must have some heavy RNG to keep it expensive, there is no other way around it. On the other hand, Account bound = possibility for far less RNG. If items are account bound there is no reason to have them behind heavy RNG anymore.

Having both is the best option, if they really didn’t want to have exclusives on Challenging Group Content they could use another system. Allow the items to be acquired in two different ways. One involves heavy grind, maybe doing the first parts of the challenging area (remember ecto farming in GW1?), while the other way involves going all the way and finishing the entire area to get the account bound version.

So you either finish the entire thing and get the account bound version with less RNG, or you collect tokens in the rest of the area (maybe easier parts?) to make the non-bound market version. Similar to how you can get a legendary precursor by playing any content and then use forge (or rely on lucky drops) or you can fill the precursor collection. Same item, two versions, two completely different award methods.

Something like this might work to keep both sides happy?

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

binidj.5734:

SkiTz.4590:

If you think the casual that play 2 hours a day deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the guy playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues, than something is wrong with your logic. You have to earn it.

People who bust their rear deserve better rewards than some guy logging in a couple hours a week.

How about the casual that plays 6 hours a day? Does s/he deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the person playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues? Let’s compare like with like here. Is your time more worthy of reward than mine? If so, why?

The fact you use casual and six hours a day in the same line… You clearly have no idea what casually playing a game while having a job means. Skins may be gated but A-Net will never gate power, wich is why i love this game.

There are in fact, many “hard-core” casuals. I’m one of them. I play more than 6 hours a day, every day since launch, and I still consider myself casual, in that my style of play is casual. I’m not particularly looking for challenging content (though I’ve done everything but Liadri).

The problem with challenging content for me is that I live in Tasmania and many people live in places where their ping/lag is quite high. Which means that Liadri is harder for me than it is for someone in the US with good point, but we get the same reward for it.

A lot of people are playing this game on potatos. I’m not but I still live far enough away that I have an unfair disadvantage. So yeah, competitive stuff for me is annoying at best, because even if I’m equal in skill to someone with lower ping, I’m likely to lose a fight.

So if a reward, like the Liadri mini, is offered for something I can’t do, and at this time I can’t do Sanctum Sprint at all, because one of the skills you need to lightning jump to a tower always throws me over the tower…it’s just not all that fair in the first place.

So if there are things I want, it’s not always possible to get them no matter how hard I work…unless you’re suggesting I sell the house and move my family to the US. Which would be a bit overkill for a mini. lol

In this logic A-Net should just shut down the game cause people who don’t have internet connection can’t get any rewards. While i do understand your problem, and i’m sorry for you, you cannot possibly expect the reward system to be based on your personal connection.

Here’s the thing, there are some things you can’t do, to bad for you, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be rewards for people that can, as for unique skins, bohoo you’ll miss a few, i miss a few to, from the 1 year i was moving constantly and didn’t have time to play GW2 due to personal stuff. But i don’t think for one second that my personal situation should affect others enjoyment of the game. And the simple fact is, if you don’t tie some unique rewards to hard and challenging content, you’ll loose many people’s attention for it. In any other mmo these people would have better stats then you, and that would be horrible, but in this one, the only thing achievable is visual updates, and if you can’t accept that some people will have acces to skins you don’t, then quite frankly you should stop playing.

Mmo’s have always worked like this, in fact GW2 has even worked like this. So why all the drama all of a sudden? Prestige has always been a part of whatever online game, cause people like to show off what they have done. There isn’t anything wrong with that. I’m sure there will be tons of skins that you can get outside of these hardcore options, as is quite obvious seeing the number of skins already available. If you really want a skin, you can always try for it, i personally really want the pvp backpiece but i won’t ever reach that level, it’s a bit sad to me, but i understand it. If it’s really your internet connection keeping you down, then i’m sorry for you, but that is an issue at your end, even tough it possibly can’t be helped. Tough luck.

You can’t always get everything you want, buying the game does not entitle you to have loot trown at you.

It’s NOT my personal connection. Every single person in Australia, which is probably more than 2 of us, has this problem. Half the people in the world in rural areas will have similar problems. What percentage of the playerbase do you think plays on machines fast enough to get the job done AND have good Internet connections.

If they make that game for that percentage, even if it’s 50%, and I don’t think it is, that means 50% of the playerbase is pretty much screwed. If you think that’s good business, I don’t really know what to tell you.

You seem to think living in a foreign country is a personal problem. I think thinking that way is a personal problem.

Which means because some part of the playerbase has ping problems they shouldn’t implement more challenging encounters in the game. They should create only encounters that are doable with 500 ping and at 10 fps with potato computers? What kind of logic is this?

The logic is learn to read. That’s the logic. I said make it so that the rewards can be sold so if you really want one, and your ping isnt’ there, you can still get it. If you want challenging content. No problem. If you want rewards that no one else can get because you have some deep seated need to show off and you think people will be impressed by it, there’s not much else I can say.

My suggestion is a compromise. Give people hard content but don’t shut out people from the rewards who physically can’t get them. That’s not in any way unreasonable, no matter how hard you try to make it sound that way.

Worse idea ever. If there is a problem with the game, it’s exactly this.. Everybody can buy nearly every item, being it with cash, being it with an ingame currency. Resulting in grind, grind grind (for those currency’s), making the game boring for many people eventually having them leave.

We don’t need more items people can ‘buy’ we need less of them, way less, they need to be replaced with rewards being… well rewarded for specific content or challenge.

Those rewards give goals, add to the content and incentive people to do all those types on content.

Funny because Guild Wars 1 was like this. You could pretty much buy and sell everything and no one seemed to have a problem with it. Many people say this game should be more like Guild Wars 1. I say that’s a good place to start.

I think GW1 in fact had the mix I would like to see (while I haven’t played a lot of GW1). there are account-bound items but indeed also items that drop form specific content. You were indeed able to sell those items so people could get them in other ways. But that was far from the most viable or efficient way.

Getting that item might be doable with collecting feather, but it was by far an easy and fast task, and there was always that more viable (while harder) option, of doing the content for it. In fact, in forms of effort, getting the items by grinding in GW1, might be similar to getting the items directly in GW2. While getting the getting the item directly there, is similar in the effort you have to put in grinding it in GW2. (effort, in time, not in challenge)

Compare that to most items we have now? You want them, the only real option you have is grinding. It’s that mentality that has to go imho. By simply saying “you should be able to buy everything” you don’t get rid of that mentality or structure. Of course the fact that by far most new or best looking items you can only get (directly, or indirectly) with gems (including BTP skins) does also not help as again, the only way to get them is grinding.

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

binidj.5734:

SkiTz.4590:

If you think the casual that play 2 hours a day deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the guy playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues, than something is wrong with your logic. You have to earn it.

People who bust their rear deserve better rewards than some guy logging in a couple hours a week.

How about the casual that plays 6 hours a day? Does s/he deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the person playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues? Let’s compare like with like here. Is your time more worthy of reward than mine? If so, why?

The fact you use casual and six hours a day in the same line… You clearly have no idea what casually playing a game while having a job means. Skins may be gated but A-Net will never gate power, wich is why i love this game.

There are in fact, many “hard-core” casuals. I’m one of them. I play more than 6 hours a day, every day since launch, and I still consider myself casual, in that my style of play is casual. I’m not particularly looking for challenging content (though I’ve done everything but Liadri).

The problem with challenging content for me is that I live in Tasmania and many people live in places where their ping/lag is quite high. Which means that Liadri is harder for me than it is for someone in the US with good point, but we get the same reward for it.

A lot of people are playing this game on potatos. I’m not but I still live far enough away that I have an unfair disadvantage. So yeah, competitive stuff for me is annoying at best, because even if I’m equal in skill to someone with lower ping, I’m likely to lose a fight.

So if a reward, like the Liadri mini, is offered for something I can’t do, and at this time I can’t do Sanctum Sprint at all, because one of the skills you need to lightning jump to a tower always throws me over the tower…it’s just not all that fair in the first place.

So if there are things I want, it’s not always possible to get them no matter how hard I work…unless you’re suggesting I sell the house and move my family to the US. Which would be a bit overkill for a mini. lol

In this logic A-Net should just shut down the game cause people who don’t have internet connection can’t get any rewards. While i do understand your problem, and i’m sorry for you, you cannot possibly expect the reward system to be based on your personal connection.

Here’s the thing, there are some things you can’t do, to bad for you, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be rewards for people that can, as for unique skins, bohoo you’ll miss a few, i miss a few to, from the 1 year i was moving constantly and didn’t have time to play GW2 due to personal stuff. But i don’t think for one second that my personal situation should affect others enjoyment of the game. And the simple fact is, if you don’t tie some unique rewards to hard and challenging content, you’ll loose many people’s attention for it. In any other mmo these people would have better stats then you, and that would be horrible, but in this one, the only thing achievable is visual updates, and if you can’t accept that some people will have acces to skins you don’t, then quite frankly you should stop playing.

Mmo’s have always worked like this, in fact GW2 has even worked like this. So why all the drama all of a sudden? Prestige has always been a part of whatever online game, cause people like to show off what they have done. There isn’t anything wrong with that. I’m sure there will be tons of skins that you can get outside of these hardcore options, as is quite obvious seeing the number of skins already available. If you really want a skin, you can always try for it, i personally really want the pvp backpiece but i won’t ever reach that level, it’s a bit sad to me, but i understand it. If it’s really your internet connection keeping you down, then i’m sorry for you, but that is an issue at your end, even tough it possibly can’t be helped. Tough luck.

You can’t always get everything you want, buying the game does not entitle you to have loot trown at you.

It’s NOT my personal connection. Every single person in Australia, which is probably more than 2 of us, has this problem. Half the people in the world in rural areas will have similar problems. What percentage of the playerbase do you think plays on machines fast enough to get the job done AND have good Internet connections.

If they make that game for that percentage, even if it’s 50%, and I don’t think it is, that means 50% of the playerbase is pretty much screwed. If you think that’s good business, I don’t really know what to tell you.

You seem to think living in a foreign country is a personal problem. I think thinking that way is a personal problem.

Which means because some part of the playerbase has ping problems they shouldn’t implement more challenging encounters in the game. They should create only encounters that are doable with 500 ping and at 10 fps with potato computers? What kind of logic is this?

The logic is learn to read. That’s the logic. I said make it so that the rewards can be sold so if you really want one, and your ping isnt’ there, you can still get it. If you want challenging content. No problem. If you want rewards that no one else can get because you have some deep seated need to show off and you think people will be impressed by it, there’s not much else I can say.

My suggestion is a compromise. Give people hard content but don’t shut out people from the rewards who physically can’t get them. That’s not in any way unreasonable, no matter how hard you try to make it sound that way.

Worse idea ever. If there is a problem with the game, it’s exactly this.. Everybody can buy nearly every item, being it with cash, being it with an ingame currency. Resulting in grind, grind grind (for those currency’s), making the game boring for many people eventually having them leave.

We don’t need more items people can ‘buy’ we need less of them, way less, they need to be replaced with rewards being… well rewarded for specific content or challenge.

Those rewards give goals, add to the content and incentive people to do all those types on content.

Funny because Guild Wars 1 was like this. You could pretty much buy and sell everything and no one seemed to have a problem with it. Many people say this game should be more like Guild Wars 1. I say that’s a good place to start.

GW1 was not an MMO, and doesn’t really apply here imo. It is fine to buy everything in a single player game like GW1. There was no competition, no real raids, and for the most part you never interacted with anyone else in the game. GW1 was like a modern day FPS. Sure you can see other people in the lobby, and even occasionally group up and play with them, but it wasn’t really an MMO.

In an MMO environment, having goals to achieve and things to show off to your friends is pretty much what drives the whole game.

maddoctor.2738:

Once or twice maybe. Then what? How do you keep players interested in doing that “hard content” in the long run?

That’s a wrong question. If you need to offer special rewards just to keep players interested in a certain game mode, then perhaps they don’t find it interesting at all. And if they don’t find it interesting, then why should Anet even try to introduce that mode in the first place?

We’ve been stuck with a braindead game since it’s launch. Open world content is laughably easy, dungeons are all about stacking in 1 spot and melting down the boss, WvW is just follow the comander and win if you have more numbers, and everything in pvp is about getting a good random team.

If you don’t like challenging content just avoid it, but trying to take its rewards from players actually intrested to play a bit more seriously make you look like a selfish j*rk.

This is an MMO after all. If you want equality in literally everything except personal skill, play a FPS game, or stick to the Heart of the Mists, and feel bad about character appearance.

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Once or twice maybe. Then what? How do you keep players interested in doing that “hard content” in the long run?

That’s a wrong question. If you need to offer special rewards just to keep players interested in a certain game mode, then perhaps they don’t find it interesting at all. And if they don’t find it interesting, then why should Anet even try to introduce that mode in the first place?

Tequatl got unique rewards when it was updated, Triple Trouble Wurm got unique rewards, Fractals got unique rewards, PVP got unique rewards, Achievement Points got unique rewards. Living Story S2 had unique rewards for completing the achievements. DT got new exclusive rewards, SW got unique exclusive rewards, HoT will probably add new rewards available only in HoT.

Every addition to the game had some extra/unique rewards with it, I didn’t see any complaints about any of those. But when the “hard content” phrase comes on a thread it’s different, suddenly having exclusive rewards (like ANY other part of the game) isn’t justified or reasonable. Why is it that they added new rewards for everything they’ve released so far? I guess nothing released in GW2, and no content already existing in the game at release was interesting.

I had a blast leveling my fractal level from 30 to 50, actually playing all levels and trying the instabilities, using new tricks and abilities to overcome some of the harder ones. Me and my group refused to level only by doing the easy-mode 50, we did all the levels as a team. We did it for the fun and the challenge of it, however once we reached the final destination and were hit by the insane grind and heavy RNG required to get the fractal weapons it stopped being fun, it stopped being enjoyable.

The destroyer of fun in this game is the RNG, it’s simply one of the worst RNG systems I’ve ever seen and that’s because everyone rolls on their own loot, there is no way to share. That reason alone makes it more RNG-heavy than most games out there. They could have the same rewards in Challenging Group Content that they have everywhere else in the game, just without the RNG. I would be happy just with that if they don’t introduce exclusives with it.

1) If dont want RNG for an item , then it must be Time Gated
a) If they item has 5% to drop , then playing at the ‘’Night Cyrcle’’ (you will have 40 min to complete) adds another +15% chance and increase the difficulty by 15%
b) By playing on the Weekents + on Night Cyrcle you have 100% for the item , but they difficulty increases to 50% (oneshot everything)

2) WoD implanted the Apexis system where you do dailies(quets) and with that currency you can unlock different items from various NPCs from various locations , and the Gold from the farming , you can:
a)pay the Sub
b)or pay the constant enchants + gems for the gear

Its exaclty the same as the Gold(transforing into Gem with 1 bottun)+Karma in GW2 , without the fear to run out of Sub

But it seems doing different events and getting unified currency that let you buy Items , by doing different things and not feel constrain in the same Raid over and over again is a ’’Grind’’ in various games it seems

Why i feel so angry atm ?
-_-

3) I hope they will introduce super gear , locked behind hardcore istances .
That means only a tiny of population will do them , the slowly will meet the same fate as the normal Istances and more resources will go in the large-casual side :P

Vayne.8563:

The logic is learn to read. That’s the logic. I said make it so that the rewards can be sold so if you really want one, and your ping isnt’ there, you can still get it. If you want challenging content. No problem. If you want rewards that no one else can get because you have some deep seated need to show off and you think people will be impressed by it, there’s not much else I can say.

My suggestion is a compromise. Give people hard content but don’t shut out people from the rewards who physically can’t get them. That’s not in any way unreasonable, no matter how hard you try to make it sound that way.

Again, it’s not because you bought the box you automaticly are entitled to having everything available to you. There is no powercreep involved and quite frankly if a few skins not obtainable by you is your problem, you should probally stop playing mmo’s all together, i’m done trying to explain how this is important, but it is important to have these in hardcore content and to limit them to that content.
Just as it is important to have unique pvp or wvw rewards in the future. (wich they are obviously starting with the backpacks)

This is the perfect mmo for casuals because of the fact that we don’t have powercreep, having a certain skin does not make your character better then someone else. That is already 100% more casual then any other game out there. THEY ARE SKINS kitten , this isn’t World of “your ilvl is 100 higher then mine, so you do double damage” Warcraft, that is kittening elitism. A unique skin reward for completing a unique challenge, hell that’s just normal. And no even if 10% of the playerbase plays from super laggy areas, that does not mean content they can’t play can’t offer rewards that are unique to that content.

I’m not the selfish one here, you are.

Vayne.8563:

maddoctor.2738:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

Vayne.8563:

Fox.3469:

binidj.5734:

SkiTz.4590:

If you think the casual that play 2 hours a day deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the guy playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues, than something is wrong with your logic. You have to earn it.

People who bust their rear deserve better rewards than some guy logging in a couple hours a week.

How about the casual that plays 6 hours a day? Does s/he deserve the legendary backpiece as much as the person playing 6 hours a day in PvP leagues? Let’s compare like with like here. Is your time more worthy of reward than mine? If so, why?

The fact you use casual and six hours a day in the same line… You clearly have no idea what casually playing a game while having a job means. Skins may be gated but A-Net will never gate power, wich is why i love this game.

There are in fact, many “hard-core” casuals. I’m one of them. I play more than 6 hours a day, every day since launch, and I still consider myself casual, in that my style of play is casual. I’m not particularly looking for challenging content (though I’ve done everything but Liadri).

The problem with challenging content for me is that I live in Tasmania and many people live in places where their ping/lag is quite high. Which means that Liadri is harder for me than it is for someone in the US with good point, but we get the same reward for it.

A lot of people are playing this game on potatos. I’m not but I still live far enough away that I have an unfair disadvantage. So yeah, competitive stuff for me is annoying at best, because even if I’m equal in skill to someone with lower ping, I’m likely to lose a fight.

So if a reward, like the Liadri mini, is offered for something I can’t do, and at this time I can’t do Sanctum Sprint at all, because one of the skills you need to lightning jump to a tower always throws me over the tower…it’s just not all that fair in the first place.

So if there are things I want, it’s not always possible to get them no matter how hard I work…unless you’re suggesting I sell the house and move my family to the US. Which would be a bit overkill for a mini. lol

In this logic A-Net should just shut down the game cause people who don’t have internet connection can’t get any rewards. While i do understand your problem, and i’m sorry for you, you cannot possibly expect the reward system to be based on your personal connection.

Here’s the thing, there are some things you can’t do, to bad for you, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be rewards for people that can, as for unique skins, bohoo you’ll miss a few, i miss a few to, from the 1 year i was moving constantly and didn’t have time to play GW2 due to personal stuff. But i don’t think for one second that my personal situation should affect others enjoyment of the game. And the simple fact is, if you don’t tie some unique rewards to hard and challenging content, you’ll loose many people’s attention for it. In any other mmo these people would have better stats then you, and that would be horrible, but in this one, the only thing achievable is visual updates, and if you can’t accept that some people will have acces to skins you don’t, then quite frankly you should stop playing.

Mmo’s have always worked like this, in fact GW2 has even worked like this. So why all the drama all of a sudden? Prestige has always been a part of whatever online game, cause people like to show off what they have done. There isn’t anything wrong with that. I’m sure there will be tons of skins that you can get outside of these hardcore options, as is quite obvious seeing the number of skins already available. If you really want a skin, you can always try for it, i personally really want the pvp backpiece but i won’t ever reach that level, it’s a bit sad to me, but i understand it. If it’s really your internet connection keeping you down, then i’m sorry for you, but that is an issue at your end, even tough it possibly can’t be helped. Tough luck.

You can’t always get everything you want, buying the game does not entitle you to have loot trown at you.

It’s NOT my personal connection. Every single person in Australia, which is probably more than 2 of us, has this problem. Half the people in the world in rural areas will have similar problems. What percentage of the playerbase do you think plays on machines fast enough to get the job done AND have good Internet connections.

If they make that game for that percentage, even if it’s 50%, and I don’t think it is, that means 50% of the playerbase is pretty much screwed. If you think that’s good business, I don’t really know what to tell you.

You seem to think living in a foreign country is a personal problem. I think thinking that way is a personal problem.

Which means because some part of the playerbase has ping problems they shouldn’t implement more challenging encounters in the game. They should create only encounters that are doable with 500 ping and at 10 fps with potato computers? What kind of logic is this?

The logic is learn to read. That’s the logic. I said make it so that the rewards can be sold so if you really want one, and your ping isnt’ there, you can still get it. If you want challenging content. No problem. If you want rewards that no one else can get because you have some deep seated need to show off and you think people will be impressed by it, there’s not much else I can say.

My suggestion is a compromise. Give people hard content but don’t shut out people from the rewards who physically can’t get them. That’s not in any way unreasonable, no matter how hard you try to make it sound that way.

Your compromise is one of the biggest issues a lot of ppl have with this game, that everything is simply buyable (PvE wise). There is NO prestige, NO feeling of achievement or true satisfaction as an individual (thats my opinion, some of you may find a sense of achievement opening 1000 chests in silverwastes). Even if you were to get a precursor drop from a deer, there is no excitement or OMGOMG feeling… its just the biggest , random, BS luck… You either farm gold or buy gems with real $ and just buy whatever you want ,

there is no challenging feat that rewards you with anything unique – thats the problem.

Thats why there is such a dull state in PvE currently- Just farm gold, buy what you want off TP. You don’t need to do ANYTHING else besides play in 1 map (silverwastes) and you can pretty much get WHATEVER you want depending on how long you feel like spamming auto attack or running in circles opening chests.

I HIGHLY doubt whatever challenging content anet releases with HoT will have this ridiculous reward system. It’s already been going on since release (zerg farming), there is no reason to continue adding to a dull and lazy reward system like this.

You are seeing anet slightly push away from it which is good (fractal/PvP ONLY achievable legendary back peice, hopefully not available in TP…)

I really wonder if it’s worth making rewards available for people who don’t want to or can’t play (part of) the game.

Like, yes there should be appropriate rewards in every part of the game, but I don’t think it’s then also necessary to make those rewards cross over between game modes types and locations at any given time.

It feels to me most people want the game to be catered to them or the type of player they think they belong to while ignoring that in an MMO with many different kinds of players. And sometimes there’s conflicted interests. One would like an unique skin or item to show off and another would need or like more options.

I don’t think its bad to have a bit of both. like a weaponset that only drops in said hard content that can be sold and one that’s specifically from there and can’t be. For example.

In no way the game can be designed for only one type of player. It’s not wrong to want something to show off. And it’s not wrong to want more choice in skins regardless of the difficulty of the content.

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Once or twice maybe. Then what? How do you keep players interested in doing that “hard content” in the long run?

That’s a wrong question. If you need to offer special rewards just to keep players interested in a certain game mode, then perhaps they don’t find it interesting at all. And if they don’t find it interesting, then why should Anet even try to introduce that mode in the first place?

so we should just delete the pve side of the game then? because the most played pve in the game is always tied to the reward levels.
as soon as something gets nerfed people stop doing it, or as soon as some new thing becomes profitable.

no, the key is to make the gameplay reward appropriately, then you have people doing whatever they really want to do.

maddoctor.2738:

How is the nature of the game going to change if they add some instanced challenging content? Assuming it’s instanced of course, because if it’s not, it will not be challenging no matter what they say so it’s irrelevant. How exactly is that going to affect the game so badly that players are afraid of it?

It’s not the instanced challenging content that’s for sure. It’s that feeling of things changing in the open world. It’s not just one big change that’s causing this. It more like a hundred small changes that leave you this aftertaste and you start to get suspicious.

A few things that come to mind are.. that mastery number right next to your name, that warning about how things in hot open world will be different, the removal of all sense of theme and atmosphere from the new zones and their transformation into boxes that we use to run events and grind masteries (like silverwastes), the addition of leader boards to adventures (the new heart system, instead of getting nice little stories to go with our zone we now get to compete), the moving away from play as you want into the you need to play this way or you’ll go bust (train gliding and mushrooms first and fak off if you wanted the lore ones), the rewarding of competing with others instead of working together (prepare to see things change if they add raids and leaderboards) etc etc.

It’s a feeling that we’re moving away from the “inclusive” and we’re heading full speed ahead towards the “exclusive”. It’s not one big thing, it’s just many small ones. We’re moving away from the world and we’re becoming more and more a game that needs to be gamed.

Don’t know if i managed to convey the feeling…

Harper.4173:

MMOs are reward-driven. Hard or hardcore content has very little staying power by itself because the “hard” doesn’t stay hard for very long.

- snip -

Well said, Harper. As far as the current rewards in GW2, I’d say that Teq skins, TT skins, TA/AP skins and Fractal skins all fall into the “harder” content, unique reward category. I have no problem with this, and would support more of the same.

I’d also agree that statistical increases rewarded solely via harder content should be avoided. So far, that does seem to be the case.

I’m leery of Legendary skins available only in hard content. Legendary items are the game’s only real carrot outside of the ~5% stat increase offered by Ascended items. This game has too few carrots, and restricting the most noticeable of them to whatever percentage of the player-base wants hard content might not be the best for the game’s health. Existing Legendaries fit the bill, I’m not sure about the new ones yet.

Ultimately, though, the game needs more carrots. It would be best if new carrots were added to new content, _and- to existing content (to revitalize that older content). This is going to take time, if it ever happens. There’s another thing about MMO design — things take time to obtain. That’s part of the design along with there being things to obtain in the first place, and player demand for quick gratification fails to realize this.

While I haven’t been keeping up with every bit of H.O.T info, my take on this is that is a MMO after all so nothing stopping the OP and others joining a zerg or small group to do the hard content. Besides the brilliant minds of the community will post guides, youtube videos and builds all over the interweb for players to use to help them.

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Once or twice maybe. Then what? How do you keep players interested in doing that “hard content” in the long run?

That’s a wrong question. If you need to offer special rewards just to keep players interested in a certain game mode, then perhaps they don’t find it interesting at all. And if they don’t find it interesting, then why should Anet even try to introduce that mode in the first place?

Tequatl got unique rewards when it was updated, Triple Trouble Wurm got unique rewards, Fractals got unique rewards, PVP got unique rewards, Achievement Points got unique rewards. Living Story S2 had unique rewards for completing the achievements. DT got new exclusive rewards, SW got unique exclusive rewards, HoT will probably add new rewards available only in HoT.

Every addition to the game had some extra/unique rewards with it, I didn’t see any complaints about any of those.

You haven’t? Because i saw complains about every single one of them. And if you haven’t noticed, fractal skins for example will be made easier to obtain in HoT.

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

maddoctor.2738:

Once or twice maybe. Then what? How do you keep players interested in doing that “hard content” in the long run?

That’s a wrong question. If you need to offer special rewards just to keep players interested in a certain game mode, then perhaps they don’t find it interesting at all. And if they don’t find it interesting, then why should Anet even try to introduce that mode in the first place?

Tequatl got unique rewards when it was updated, Triple Trouble Wurm got unique rewards, Fractals got unique rewards, PVP got unique rewards, Achievement Points got unique rewards. Living Story S2 had unique rewards for completing the achievements. DT got new exclusive rewards, SW got unique exclusive rewards, HoT will probably add new rewards available only in HoT.

Every addition to the game had some extra/unique rewards with it, I didn’t see any complaints about any of those.

You haven’t? Because i saw complains about every single one of them. And if you haven’t noticed, fractal skins for example will be made easier to obtain in HoT.

No I haven’t. Maybe they weren’t loud enough, like when the words “challenge” and “hard” are involved.

The fractal skin change is great. That’s a great way of doing their reward system in the future, but they are still all account bound. If they ever made those non-bound they will be sold for 10 cp on the TP very soon.

So what I’m getting from OP is this example

1 man practices, keeps in shape, does all he can to prepare for a competitive sport.
2nd man can’t be bothered, because he doesn’t enjoy being active.

Both participate. 1st man ran the whole 10 miles. The other man took a nap and watched television and takes a taxi to the finish line and expects the same prize.

How is that fair to the person who earned it?

It’s not. And that’s what should matter more over.

It’s the same reason why drops and rewards are different for story mode dungeons vs explorable.

CandyHearts.6025:

So what I’m getting from OP is this example

1 man practices, keeps in shape, does all he can to prepare for a competitive sport.
2nd man can’t be bothered, because he doesn’t enjoy being active.

Both participate. 1st man ran the whole 10 miles. The other man took a nap and watched television and takes a taxi to the finish line and expects the same prize.

How is that fair to the person who earned it?

It’s not. And that’s what should matter more over.

It’s the same reason why drops and rewards are different for story mode dungeons vs explorable.

this isn’t a competitive sport.
it isn’t even a competition.
the aim isn’t for you to prove how better you are than your fellow men.
you want something challenging and hard and competitive? start playing chess.

PorceleinEve.2973:

this isn’t a competitive sport.
it isn’t even a competition.
the aim isn’t for you to prove how better you are than your fellow men.
you want something challenging and hard and competitive? start playing chess.

So your point is unless you are profession in a competitive activity you shouldn’t try to better yourself and nobody should reward the skill or dedication of someone?

CandyHearts.6025:

So what I’m getting from OP is this example

1 man practices, keeps in shape, does all he can to prepare for a competitive sport.
2nd man can’t be bothered, because he doesn’t enjoy being active.

Both participate. 1st man ran the whole 10 miles. The other man took a nap and watched television and takes a taxi to the finish line and expects the same prize.

How is that fair to the person who earned it?

It’s not. And that’s what should matter more over.

It’s the same reason why drops and rewards are different for story mode dungeons vs explorable.

Elitists seem to forget, this isn’t a game about fairness, this is a game to be enjoyed… if a casual doesn’t enjoy it, game over, period. It doesn’t have to be fair or ethical or virtuous, or honorable, or respectable, or <insert descriptor here>.

What you are not understanding is that if you run 75% of your base off, you end up with an unfunded and dying game. Yes you will be a god, but it will only be of 6 people and your game will not be around long and then you will be off to ruin another game. Cuz if only the elite can have the end reward, no one will play but elites, and there is only so much room at the top my friend… those who cant attain it, will never play it making your reward obsolete in the end…

Astralporing.1957:

You haven’t? Because i saw complains about every single one of them. And if you haven’t noticed, fractal skins for example will be made easier to obtain in HoT.

That’s not what he’s talking about. Non-fractal players were not complaining that fractal players get a chance to get fractal skins. The complaints about fractal skins were that they were RNG and the HoT change is taking the RNG out of it.

All I can say is that everyone has access to get every item already (with exception of those fancy llama minis, SAB upgraded weapons, and some skins that were randomly retired, I’m looking at you Stalwart set).

The problem is that people don’t want to do the content, but still want the reward. It never ceases to amaze me how entitled some people can actually be. You want that new fractal legendary back piece? Go and get it, nothing is stopping you. Don’t simply decide you don’t want to work towards it and then complain it isn’t fair others can get it and not you. You made that choice for yourself, no one made it for you.

What’s worse is that this mentality has creeped into the real world. People don’t want to work for a living, but want to still be able to support themselves and their family.

Thaddeus.4891:

So your point is unless you are profession in a competitive activity you shouldn’t try to better yourself and nobody should reward the skill or dedication of someone?

If you want to better yourself, to be honest, open a book, get an education, do something nice for your fellow man, travel to tibet and meditate with the dalay lama, start eating healthy, exercise, donate money to charity, etc etc

If you seek rewards for bettering yourself you’re missing the point of the bettering.

Yes yes I know, you didn’t mean it like that. But then again, maybe i didn’t mean it like that either…

Draknar.5748:

Astralporing.1957:

You haven’t? Because i saw complains about every single one of them. And if you haven’t noticed, fractal skins for example will be made easier to obtain in HoT.

You want that new fractal legendary back piece? Go and get it, nothing is stopping you. Don’t simply decide you don’t want to work towards it and then complain it isn’t fair others can get it and not you. You made that choice for yourself, no one made it for you.

What’s worse is that this mentality has creeped into the real world. People don’t want to work for a living, but want to still be able to support themselves and their family.

This simply not true in the case of the PVP back-piece though. Unless you are an elite player, you will NEVER be able to get this skin. You cant sit in the bottom tiers of the first league and grind your way to eventually get it. Yes in fractals you can… in pve you can… in pvp you cant. What this does is separate elitists from casuals. why Elitists have no problem with it cuz they view themselves as better than everyone else, Casual players will only be frustrated and stop playing. Have fun ruling your 300 sq.ft. island “King”

As for this mentality creeping into the real world, you have it exactly backwards… that mentality has existed since the dawn of man. It is always something we have to fight against in our lives to become better. But the difference is this is real life, not a game But in the case of a video game… its entirely unnecessary. Games are meant to be played for fun and a distraction FROM real life, not mimic it, this game is no different. If it doesnt suit you in its current form, there are literally thousands of other games out there that cater to your elitist desires. Feel free to play them.

I do have an interesting idea though… maybe make the rewards for each game type usable only in that game type… that way we dont have PVE’rs popping into PVP taunting them with their new shinnies hmm?

CorrynnStarr.7942:

CandyHearts.6025:

So what I’m getting from OP is this example

1 man practices, keeps in shape, does all he can to prepare for a competitive sport.
2nd man can’t be bothered, because he doesn’t enjoy being active.

Both participate. 1st man ran the whole 10 miles. The other man took a nap and watched television and takes a taxi to the finish line and expects the same prize.

How is that fair to the person who earned it?

It’s not. And that’s what should matter more over.

It’s the same reason why drops and rewards are different for story mode dungeons vs explorable.

Elitists seem to forget, this isn’t a game about fairness, this is a game to be enjoyed… if a casual doesn’t enjoy it, game over, period. It doesn’t have to be fair or ethical or virtuous, or honorable, or respectable, or <insert descriptor here>.

What you are not understanding is that if you run 75% of your base off, you end up with an unfunded and dying game. Yes you will be a god, but it will only be of 6 people and your game will not be around long and then you will be off to ruin another game. Cuz if only the elite can have the end reward, no one will play but elites, and there is only so much room at the top my friend… those who cant attain it, will never play it making your reward obsolete in the end…

Getting rewarded for a challenge is fun (for elitists and for casuals).. grind grind grind gold to buy the ‘reward’ is boring. So you are right, the game is about enjoyment and that is exactly why the reward-system should move away from the currency driven grind structure it has been, in order to hold more people with HoT. Those that left with the original game because they got bored or burned out.

PorceleinEve.2973:

Thaddeus.4891:

So your point is unless you are profession in a competitive activity you shouldn’t try to better yourself and nobody should reward the skill or dedication of someone?

If you want to better yourself, to be honest, open a book, get an education, do something nice for your fellow man, travel to tibet and meditate with the dalay lama, start eating healthy, exercise, donate money to charity, etc etc

If you seek rewards for bettering yourself you’re missing the point of the bettering.

Yes yes I know, you didn’t mean it like that. But then again, maybe i didn’t mean it like that either…

True, but you forget something really really important. I’m lazy.

PorceleinEve.2973:

Thaddeus.4891:

So your point is unless you are profession in a competitive activity you shouldn’t try to better yourself and nobody should reward the skill or dedication of someone?

If you want to better yourself, to be honest, open a book, get an education, do something nice for your fellow man, travel to tibet and meditate with the dalay lama, start eating healthy, exercise, donate money to charity, etc etc

If you seek rewards for bettering yourself you’re missing the point of the bettering.

He could just want to be better in the game, witch its fine, even if you dont considere its worthy, aslong as he does, its fine (there are toons of people that get beter in their hobbies).

You have like two posts based on this argument: “Get better in the real world”, the game doesnt matter, but theres two points to considerate:

1: Thats per person: theres people that gets better in everything, and even if not, some people like to be good in their hobbies. And some people consider to just be afkers in theirs.

2: Second you are incurring in either delusion or a “falacy of change” and one “falacy of justice”:

• There exist a group of people that try to get better in their hobbie (gaming), the group isnt so small, you cant deny their existence.

• Falacy of change, even if you said all day they need to get better in things you and other people considerate are important (even if you dont know if they are getting better or not), what you said will not change them, in fact what you said doesnt generally have importance for them (even if it was for their good). This a type of thinking distortion.

Since you arent changing them and they exist, they will still generally still try to get better in their hobby (gaming).

• Falacy of justice:

You value getting better as only for what you considerate productive (reading books, etc.), but he probably dont, meaning he and you have different values, you are trying to impose your values to him, because you cant think outside your box and think they are legitime instead of inferior to yours.

This is also a thinking distortion.

I made a post about the reward part, but since your post can be generalized outside gaming and the other its too large, plus this is a very legit answer also (without going to the FUN parts, etc. of the other post):

Generally speaking our society is based in the incentives of innovation and personally progress, meaning that, even if “bettering for bettering” its better (witch its not the subject), reality its that incentives matters.

Anet its a company in the real world and their palyers come from this kind of society, would be a bad decision to chose “bettering for bettering” over rewards.

If you deny this fact you are been dellusional, if you try to change it with posts you are incurring in a falacy of change (especially because the population thinking like this its way times bigger than gw2 players or forum readers), if you considerate it musnt be like that: thats another subject, what matters for the decision making in bussines its reality,

If you go to FUN vs Reward, i posted about it l like one page before, feel free to read it and then refute -.-.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

CandyHearts.6025:

So what I’m getting from OP is this example

1 man practices, keeps in shape, does all he can to prepare for a competitive sport.
2nd man can’t be bothered, because he doesn’t enjoy being active.

Both participate. 1st man ran the whole 10 miles. The other man took a nap and watched television and takes a taxi to the finish line and expects the same prize.

How is that fair to the person who earned it?

It’s not. And that’s what should matter more over.

It’s the same reason why drops and rewards are different for story mode dungeons vs explorable.

Elitists seem to forget, this isn’t a game about fairness, this is a game to be enjoyed… if a casual doesn’t enjoy it, game over, period. It doesn’t have to be fair or ethical or virtuous, or honorable, or respectable, or <insert descriptor here>.

What you are not understanding is that if you run 75% of your base off, you end up with an unfunded and dying game. Yes you will be a god, but it will only be of 6 people and your game will not be around long and then you will be off to ruin another game. Cuz if only the elite can have the end reward, no one will play but elites, and there is only so much room at the top my friend… those who cant attain it, will never play it making your reward obsolete in the end…

These pessimistic posts that prophesize the end of a 10 year old franchise because anet is gonna add just a bit of challenging content after 3 years in a game that is 99% casual always make me laugh.

Really? That’s your best argument? Usually it’s when people run out of good arguments that they start throwing all these nonsense about the end of world and how bad things are gonna be in the future.

That is borderline stupid. Anet is not gonna ruin their game, they know what they should and shouldn’t do to try to improve it, otherwise they wouldn’t have such a successful mmo. If they have decided to introduce a bit of challenging content is because they think it could benefit the game and it won’t ruin the fun for most players. Besides, we don’t even know what that content is yet, the details have not been disclosed yet but many of you in this thread are acting like if it’s going to be a disaster.

Don’t worry, gw2 will remain a casual friendly game as it is now. You’ll have to come up with better arguments than the old “it’s gonna be the end of the world” nonsense if you want to have some credibility.

I’m still not understanding why challenging content can’t and shouldn’t be awarded. As long as the content can be accessed by everyone, what’s the matter? If it’s cosmetic and therefore optional, why can’t it be rewarded for optional (challenging) content?

I don’t think it should be taboo for someone to want something to show for, especially after working hard at something / being skillful at something. Easy content has both intrinsic and extrinsic rewards. Why suddenly is it that challenging content can only have intrinsic rewards?

It’s not as if ANet is going to take a complete 180 and make all content / rewards for the future only capable of being achieved by super skilled hardcore individuals. That would be suicide. I see them adding a little bit of challenging content as them taking a step towards adding more content for individuals of ALL skill levels. Because right now we have a lot of easy content. I’m glad they’re adding some content for the people who do want to be challenged.

As for the PvP fractal back piece… I’m no elite. But at the same time, I don’t see why I should be miffed that I wouldn’t be able to get it. It’s accessible, but optional. I can still try my hand at it. The only thing that prevents me from getting it is my own skill / willingness to try my hand at it. It’s reward for people who are willing to go a great distance and achieve something. I don’t feel entitled to it because the only thing that’s preventing me from getting it is me. And I don’t see why other people should feel entitled to it either.

Dhorghar.5249:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

CandyHearts.6025:

So what I’m getting from OP is this example

1 man practices, keeps in shape, does all he can to prepare for a competitive sport.
2nd man can’t be bothered, because he doesn’t enjoy being active.

Both participate. 1st man ran the whole 10 miles. The other man took a nap and watched television and takes a taxi to the finish line and expects the same prize.

How is that fair to the person who earned it?

It’s not. And that’s what should matter more over.

It’s the same reason why drops and rewards are different for story mode dungeons vs explorable.

Elitists seem to forget, this isn’t a game about fairness, this is a game to be enjoyed… if a casual doesn’t enjoy it, game over, period. It doesn’t have to be fair or ethical or virtuous, or honorable, or respectable, or <insert descriptor here>.

What you are not understanding is that if you run 75% of your base off, you end up with an unfunded and dying game. Yes you will be a god, but it will only be of 6 people and your game will not be around long and then you will be off to ruin another game. Cuz if only the elite can have the end reward, no one will play but elites, and there is only so much room at the top my friend… those who cant attain it, will never play it making your reward obsolete in the end…

These pessimistic posts that prophesize the end of a 10 year old franchise because anet is gonna add just a bit of challenging content after 3 years in a game that is 99% casual always make me laugh.

Really? That’s your best argument? Usually it’s when people run out of good arguments that they start throwing all these nonsense about the end of world and how bad things are gonna be in the future.

That is borderline stupid. Anet is not gonna ruin their game, they know what they should and shouldn’t do to try to improve it, otherwise they wouldn’t have such a successful mmo. If they have decided to introduce a bit of challenging content is because they think it could benefit the game and it won’t ruin the fun for most players. Besides, we don’t even know what that content is yet, the details have not been disclosed yet but many of you in this thread are acting like if it’s going to be a disaster.

Don’t worry, gw2 will remain a casual friendly game as it is now. You’ll have to come up with better arguments than the old “it’s gonna be the end of the world” nonsense if you want to have some credibility.

Your first mistake was thinking I have to prove ANYTHING to you at all… I Dont, anet ALREADY agrees with me. My argument was about separating classes of player with rewards. Its not a good idea and as you so eloquently stated… anet is not gonna ruin their game, ergo they will cater to the casuals instead of the elite 2%, thanks for driving my point home for me. Second, we have stated before that the challenging content introduced is not the issue here. Its the seperation of players thru elite rewards (i.e. class warfare for those who think politically).

Just make the rewards obtainable for those casual players as well thru some other mechanic or what have you. a person that plays 1-2 hours a day will not have a snowballs chance in hades of competing against a player who pvp’s 4-6 hours a day, cmon lets be realistic. That pvp player still has the ability to go into fractals and PVE and get anything they want their quite easily because their pvp skill already works in thier favor in the other 3 systems. Its not the same with the PVP reward of the backpiece. YOU HAVE TO BE TOP TIER in order to get the parts for it. which will segregate 90% of the server from obtaining it no matter how much they play in it! And its not the not wanting to play pvp thing here, its that it is seperated to the top 1% of all players. There is no need to seperate the player base just to appease the top 10 players in the world here.

plain and simple, this is a business. A business is gonna go the direction that makes them the most money. taking 2% of the pie or 98% of the pie is a no brainer. you want to make it difficult to obtain the items, then fine, make it difficult. but make it available to all, not just the top 10 players in the world. Is that so difficult for you to understand?

Ohoni.6057:

In its ideal form, every type of content should have both “easier” modes, and “hard modes” available.

In it’s ideal form the game would detect how well or badly you were doing and adjust itself accordingly, making the mobs harder or easier and also adjusting the rewards to suit. It would also penalise you for any cheating or exploits you attempt.

xarallei.4279:

Fractals are going to have their own unique legendary back piece. Pvp as well.

The really odd thing is that, if a player only does PvP then the stats on the Legendary PvP back piece will be totally wasted. PvP stats come from the amulet alone, in order to benefit from the Legendary status they will have to leave PvP and do PvE or WvW….

Lucius.2140:

He could just want to be better in the game, witch its fine, even if you dont considere its worthy, aslong as he does, its fine (there are toons of people that get beter in their hobbies).

this is actually a lie…

the problem isn’t getting better, he can get better already. it’s the rewards he wants for it.

at least one of the problems.

PorceleinEve.2973:

Lucius.2140:

He could just want to be better in the game, witch its fine, even if you dont considere its worthy, aslong as he does, its fine (there are toons of people that get beter in their hobbies).

this is actually a lie…

the problem isn’t getting better, he can get better already. it’s the rewards he wants for it.

at least one of the problems.

Then read the complete post lol

Lucius.2140:

Then read the complete post lol

I did, why would you think otherwise.

You are missing the point of this conversation. It’s not to win it