Guild Wars 2

Hard mode for personal play, solo only – yes, it’s great. Play it on your own pace, progress gradually, get better and so on.
Hard mode for – hell no, because it gets hijacked by metajerks, so most players are excluded.

For example, in another game I really like Brawler’s Guild, but serious raiding isn’t for me anymore.

Draknar.5748:

If casuals can’t have literally every item in the game, then apparently they would quit in droves? I highly doubt it.

This is one thing that I’ve been wondering too and I don’t think it’s reasonable to think so. Otherwise, in GW2 case, they would’ve left a very long time ago.

Vayne.8563:

What this game really needed, from the beginning, was stuff for casual people to collect LABELLED as such, and then you could put in those ultra hard rewards. But the game didn’t label that stuff. In Rift there were sparkles that anyone could get and anyone could collect. This game needs something like that to keep more casual people playing, as well as harder rewards for people who want more challenge.

But it doesn’t have that. It’s just rewards. Not easier and harder. There’s very few sets “everyone” can get, and that’s missing. Because that’s missing no one is going to be satisfied.

So the trick becomes kittening off the smallest group of people you can.

This game was "casual’ from the get go

every thing that isn’t purely RNG related (like frac skins) is available in the TP
That means all you have to do is FARM GOLD

And so far, the go to method for farming gold is also the most CASUAL YOU CAN GET.

Ever since release there has ALWAYS been some kind of freaking champ train or open world zerg event that has been the top gold per hour. Run around in a kitten circle for however long you want and you basically can buy whatever the heck you want.

Gemstore skins ? legendaries? dyes? you got it. farm gold , and you got it.

Outside of items requiring different currency (like dung tokens), all you have to do is farm gold in this game and you can get majority of the things this game has to offer

Lowest amount of skill required – highest amount of reward possible. Thats what it looks like to me

No there is not enough hard or rare collections to get and I can’t wait for anet to add more.

Sorry if it kittens you off because you can’t collect some item or rewards , no one is going to quit the game over not having a certain back peice or mini pet. Its not the end of the world to add meaningful rewards tied behind challenging content only.

95% of the rewards in this game can be freaking bought by just running in a circle spamming auto attacks or opening chests.

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

phys.7689:

i dont think most mmo players want to get everything without playing the game. pretty sure its a very small minority of players than want the dungeon title but dont want to do any dungeons.

Sure, but they might want dungeons they themselves will be able to run. Remember, for a large part of population dungeons, even the really easy ones, are still hard. Forumites, when compared to the rest of the population, are generally exceptionally skilled and esperienced – you shouldn’t assume everyone is around your skill level, or even around you skill potential. There are many players that will never come close, no matter how hard they will try. What you might consider a moderate level of difficulty, that should be cleared by anyone with a little effort, is most likely prohibitively hard to many, many players.

I went into TA this week with a party of five. We didn’t get past the wurms in the beginning after three tries. Two people left the party and with those people replaced, we beat the wurms in no time flat.

Those two people, one of whom was new, one has been playing since launch. Sure eventually they might get it, but everyone has a different discouragement threshold.

Also if dungeons could be soloed, I’m convinced a lot more people would do it. I think it’s looking bad in front of others that prevents many from trying.

Exactly this, I have been desired to obtain Arah heavy legging since launch.(A lv10 noob starring at the dungeon merchant since then….) But almost 3 years passed, i’ve only played arah exp P1 once and i found that it took too long to complete, therefore i’ve never join any arah exp again. And of couse i am never able to obtain the skin until couple days ago i got it from the PvP reward track.

I totally agree with OP. I don’t want rewards to be exclusive. For example
Fractals 50 are too hard and I want those fractal skins. But I can’t afford 4-5 hours a day grinding one fractal at time all the way to 50 then a few hundred more. What I can do is spending 50 mins on ACp1 and 30 mins on CoFp1 once day. Fractal skins is out of my reach. When HoT comes out I will quit the game if I can’t trade maybe 1000 ac and cof tokens combined for each fractal skin. Please don’t be exclusive.

When september hits, I can only afford about 30 mins a day on this game due to work. I don’t even know if I can grind out those AC tokens anymore. It takes 30 mins for path 1 or 3. What I can do I roleplay in Queensdale. Please let me earn roleplay tokens every time I type /e followed by a sentence that’s more than 100 characters long and let me exchange 10,000 role play tokens for those fractal skin please! Please!

Stars.2179:

I totally agree with OP. I don’t want rewards to be exclusive. For example
Fractals 50 are too hard and I want those fractal skins. But I can’t afford 4-5 hours a day grinding one fractal at time all the way to 50 then a few hundred more. What I can do is spending 50 mins on ACp1 and 30 mins on CoFp1 once day. Fractal skins is out of my reach. When HoT comes out I will quit the game if I can’t trade maybe 1000 ac and cof tokens combined for each fractal skin. Please don’t be exclusive.

When september hits, I can only afford about 30 mins a day on this game due to work. I don’t even know if I can grind out those AC tokens anymore. It takes 30 mins for path 1 or 3. What I can do I roleplay in Queensdale. Please let me earn roleplay tokens every time I type /e followed by a sentence that’s more than 100 characters long and let me exchange 10,000 role play tokens for those fractal skin please! Please!

you don’t need lvl 50 fractals to get the skins they can drop from lvl 25 and up (i believe). Source: guy who has half of the fractal skins and never completed lvl 50.

Crossaber.8934:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

phys.7689:

i dont think most mmo players want to get everything without playing the game. pretty sure its a very small minority of players than want the dungeon title but dont want to do any dungeons.

Sure, but they might want dungeons they themselves will be able to run. Remember, for a large part of population dungeons, even the really easy ones, are still hard. Forumites, when compared to the rest of the population, are generally exceptionally skilled and esperienced – you shouldn’t assume everyone is around your skill level, or even around you skill potential. There are many players that will never come close, no matter how hard they will try. What you might consider a moderate level of difficulty, that should be cleared by anyone with a little effort, is most likely prohibitively hard to many, many players.

I went into TA this week with a party of five. We didn’t get past the wurms in the beginning after three tries. Two people left the party and with those people replaced, we beat the wurms in no time flat.

Those two people, one of whom was new, one has been playing since launch. Sure eventually they might get it, but everyone has a different discouragement threshold.

Also if dungeons could be soloed, I’m convinced a lot more people would do it. I think it’s looking bad in front of others that prevents many from trying.

Exactly this, I have been desired to obtain Arah heavy legging since launch.(A lv10 noob starring at the dungeon merchant since then….) But almost 3 years passed, i’ve only played arah exp P1 once and i found that it took too long to complete, therefore i’ve never join any arah exp again. And of couse i am never able to obtain the skin until couple days ago i got it from the PvP reward track.

Sounds like a personal problem
Plenty of good ppl in this game that don’t mind explaining and going through dung paths if you actually wanted to figure it out…
Plenty of good guilds as well that will help you.
Everyone was a noob… than they learned and got better and eventually got what they wanted

There’s a difference in being a noob and actively seeking help/guidance, trying to learn, etc and a noob that says “screw it, this is annoying, too hard, i give up” just after a couple tries…

dsslive.8473:

Stars.2179:

I totally agree with OP. I don’t want rewards to be exclusive. For example
Fractals 50 are too hard and I want those fractal skins. But I can’t afford 4-5 hours a day grinding one fractal at time all the way to 50 then a few hundred more. What I can do is spending 50 mins on ACp1 and 30 mins on CoFp1 once day. Fractal skins is out of my reach. When HoT comes out I will quit the game if I can’t trade maybe 1000 ac and cof tokens combined for each fractal skin. Please don’t be exclusive.

When september hits, I can only afford about 30 mins a day on this game due to work. I don’t even know if I can grind out those AC tokens anymore. It takes 30 mins for path 1 or 3. What I can do I roleplay in Queensdale. Please let me earn roleplay tokens every time I type /e followed by a sentence that’s more than 100 characters long and let me exchange 10,000 role play tokens for those fractal skin please! Please!

you don’t need lvl 50 fractals to get the skins they can drop from lvl 25 and up (i believe). Source: guy who has half of the fractal skins and never completed lvl 50.

Considering fractal level 9 takes me 4-5 hours. , let alone higher than 9. This is out of my reach

Crossaber.8934:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

phys.7689:

i dont think most mmo players want to get everything without playing the game. pretty sure its a very small minority of players than want the dungeon title but dont want to do any dungeons.

Sure, but they might want dungeons they themselves will be able to run. Remember, for a large part of population dungeons, even the really easy ones, are still hard. Forumites, when compared to the rest of the population, are generally exceptionally skilled and esperienced – you shouldn’t assume everyone is around your skill level, or even around you skill potential. There are many players that will never come close, no matter how hard they will try. What you might consider a moderate level of difficulty, that should be cleared by anyone with a little effort, is most likely prohibitively hard to many, many players.

I went into TA this week with a party of five. We didn’t get past the wurms in the beginning after three tries. Two people left the party and with those people replaced, we beat the wurms in no time flat.

Those two people, one of whom was new, one has been playing since launch. Sure eventually they might get it, but everyone has a different discouragement threshold.

Also if dungeons could be soloed, I’m convinced a lot more people would do it. I think it’s looking bad in front of others that prevents many from trying.

Exactly this, I have been desired to obtain Arah heavy legging since launch.(A lv10 noob starring at the dungeon merchant since then….) But almost 3 years passed, i’ve only played arah exp P1 once and i found that it took too long to complete, therefore i’ve never join any arah exp again. And of couse i am never able to obtain the skin until couple days ago i got it from the PvP reward track.

you are not “never able to obtain the skin”. You are compeltely able to obtain it, the point is, you choose not to. There’s quite the difference.

Actually, there are such thing is non-viable builds a well as game play. Just because Goku or Abe or Wethospu can solo the crap out of everything naked doesn’t mean other people can do it. There are such thing as non-viable way of playing for others and for them, sometimes it IS IMPOSSIBLE!

Stars.2179:

dsslive.8473:

Stars.2179:

I totally agree with OP. I don’t want rewards to be exclusive. For example
Fractals 50 are too hard and I want those fractal skins. But I can’t afford 4-5 hours a day grinding one fractal at time all the way to 50 then a few hundred more. What I can do is spending 50 mins on ACp1 and 30 mins on CoFp1 once day. Fractal skins is out of my reach. When HoT comes out I will quit the game if I can’t trade maybe 1000 ac and cof tokens combined for each fractal skin. Please don’t be exclusive.

When september hits, I can only afford about 30 mins a day on this game due to work. I don’t even know if I can grind out those AC tokens anymore. It takes 30 mins for path 1 or 3. What I can do I roleplay in Queensdale. Please let me earn roleplay tokens every time I type /e followed by a sentence that’s more than 100 characters long and let me exchange 10,000 role play tokens for those fractal skin please! Please!

you don’t need lvl 50 fractals to get the skins they can drop from lvl 25 and up (i believe). Source: guy who has half of the fractal skins and never completed lvl 50.

Considering fractal level 9 takes me 4-5 hours. , let alone higher than 9. This is out of my reach

That’s quite a long time indeed but eventually you’ll get to a higher level where people have somewhat a clue what to do and things will end up going much faster. (not to say that 3-4 hour runs stop from happening, and they can be frustrating)

Tho with the fractal change the time spent inside will be shortened so it should become more possible in the future

Stars.2179:

dsslive.8473:

Stars.2179:

I totally agree with OP. I don’t want rewards to be exclusive. For example
Fractals 50 are too hard and I want those fractal skins. But I can’t afford 4-5 hours a day grinding one fractal at time all the way to 50 then a few hundred more. What I can do is spending 50 mins on ACp1 and 30 mins on CoFp1 once day. Fractal skins is out of my reach. When HoT comes out I will quit the game if I can’t trade maybe 1000 ac and cof tokens combined for each fractal skin. Please don’t be exclusive.

When september hits, I can only afford about 30 mins a day on this game due to work. I don’t even know if I can grind out those AC tokens anymore. It takes 30 mins for path 1 or 3. What I can do I roleplay in Queensdale. Please let me earn roleplay tokens every time I type /e followed by a sentence that’s more than 100 characters long and let me exchange 10,000 role play tokens for those fractal skin please! Please!

you don’t need lvl 50 fractals to get the skins they can drop from lvl 25 and up (i believe). Source: guy who has half of the fractal skins and never completed lvl 50.

Considering fractal level 9 takes me 4-5 hours. , let alone higher than 9. This is out of my reach

Low level fractals are terrible if you are pugging.
The amount of bad players is real.

My advice is find a guild. Life becomes much easier playing with competent ppl that will show you the ropes and easy ways to complete certain fractals.

its a pain in the early levels because all the mechanics and what not can be difficult for beginners but once you get the hang of it, it becomes a breeze. But the key is playing with the right people that know what to do. Once you learn, you will be completing them in under an hour easy.

If it takes 4-5 hours to complete 1 lvl 9 fractal… thats just.. wow… thats a bad PUG

Sorry, I forgot the hashtag. #Sarcasm. (I fotm 50 everyday and have one tonic XD)

Shoulda hashtagged it when I mentioned roleplaying tokens….

Stars.2179:

Actually, there are such thing is non-viable builds a well as game play. Just because Goku or Abe or Wethospu can solo the crap out of everything naked doesn’t mean other people can do it. There are such thing as non-viable way of playing for others and for them, sometimes it IS IMPOSSIBLE!

not sure if this was in reply to my response to the arah guy, but here we go

He already managed to complete arah once, so it’s not out of his reach, the thing is that it simply took too long (all dungeons are gonna take long if you’re doing the for the first time) Instead of sking for help or just joining a party and learning as he goes he decides it’s “out of reach” when it really isn’t. No one is saying he should be able to solo arah naked (i surely can’t), you don’t do dungeons alone, you’re there with a group and most of the times (from my experience) people are totally willing to explain the bossfights and to help (ofcourse there are exceptions).

So no, it’s not “impossible”, he jsut made the decision that it wasn’t worht the effort. And thats a totally valid decision, there are skins i like but i just don’t see it being worth the effort, they aren’t “impossible” to obtain for me though (and i’m far from good). It’s just me weighing their value agaisnt whether i’d enjoy getting them. I rather have fun , than force myself to grind or do something unfun for a skin. And that’s okay, i won’t get that skin , i move on.

dsslive.8473:

Stars.2179:

Actually, there are such thing is non-viable builds a well as game play. Just because Goku or Abe or Wethospu can solo the crap out of everything naked doesn’t mean other people can do it. There are such thing as non-viable way of playing for others and for them, sometimes it IS IMPOSSIBLE!

not sure if this was in reply to my response to the arah guy, but here we go

He already managed to complete arah once, so it’s not out of his reach, the thing is that it simply took too long (all dungeons are gonna take long if you’re doing the for the first time) Instead of sking for help or just joining a party and learning as he goes he decides it’s “out of reach” when it really isn’t. No one is saying he should be able to solo arah naked (i surely can’t), you don’t do dungeons alone, you’re there with a group and most of the times (from my experience) people are totally willing to explain the bossfights and to help (ofcourse there are exceptions).

So no, it’s not “impossible”, he jsut made the decision that it wasn’t worht the effort. And thats a totally valid decision, there are skins i like but i just don’t see it being worth the effort, they aren’t “impossible” to obtain for me though (and i’m far from good). It’s just me weighing their value agaisnt whether i’d enjoy getting them. I rather have fun , than force myself to grind or do something unfun for a skin. And that’s okay, i won’t get that skin , i move on.

Wrong or right, that’s the attitude of a lot of people. This isn’t a job, it’s a game. You play games to have fun. If you don’t find dungeons fun, you don’t do dungeons. If they make it so you can ONLY get rewards from dungeons and you want those rewards, you’re forced to do something you’re not enjoying, at which point, it’s not a game anymore.

Sure anyone CAN do it. I can go to the gym and work out too, but I don’t, because I don’t find it fun. The thing is, I have huge amounts of time to play so it doesn’t matter if some stuff I do isn’t fun for a bit, but people who have less time to play…it becomes a bigger deal. How many of these people are there? What is the threshold before they throw in the towel? It varies from person to person.

But it doesn’t make those people wrong.

Fox.3469:

Conski Deshan.2057:

Fox.3469:

Conski Deshan.2057:

If a full set of say 8 warriors can just blow through it , it indicates that the games mechanics are not being fully utilized.

I have to say i strongly disagree with this. If a full set of berserker warriors, all with the same weapons can blast trough it, then yes. However if you have allot of different specs and playstyles of the warrior in your group. Then 8 warriors should be just fine.

You have to have different roles, classes are flavour, but the role they fill should be important.

I would consider classes to be more than flavor.
I said mechanically, and what I mean by that is, there may be a portion of the fight that requires reflects (like arah but say damageable by normal means), Water fields may be required for another section, invisibility for a section where you have to stealth through and agro results in insta-kill, A crowd control fight where you have to prevent several enemies from reaching a location through soft CC.

Even 8 different spec’d warriors would feel too low diversity wise.

I don’t mean to say it has to be optimal, just possible. If not you just impose certain classes upon the group.

If different roles are not required you never get the feeling you really make a change. It’s more the the ‘just everybody DPS the hell out of it’.

Vayne.8563:

dsslive.8473:

Stars.2179:

Actually, there are such thing is non-viable builds a well as game play. Just because Goku or Abe or Wethospu can solo the crap out of everything naked doesn’t mean other people can do it. There are such thing as non-viable way of playing for others and for them, sometimes it IS IMPOSSIBLE!

not sure if this was in reply to my response to the arah guy, but here we go

He already managed to complete arah once, so it’s not out of his reach, the thing is that it simply took too long (all dungeons are gonna take long if you’re doing the for the first time) Instead of sking for help or just joining a party and learning as he goes he decides it’s “out of reach” when it really isn’t. No one is saying he should be able to solo arah naked (i surely can’t), you don’t do dungeons alone, you’re there with a group and most of the times (from my experience) people are totally willing to explain the bossfights and to help (ofcourse there are exceptions).

So no, it’s not “impossible”, he jsut made the decision that it wasn’t worht the effort. And thats a totally valid decision, there are skins i like but i just don’t see it being worth the effort, they aren’t “impossible” to obtain for me though (and i’m far from good). It’s just me weighing their value agaisnt whether i’d enjoy getting them. I rather have fun , than force myself to grind or do something unfun for a skin. And that’s okay, i won’t get that skin , i move on.

Wrong or right, that’s the attitude of a lot of people. This isn’t a job, it’s a game. You play games to have fun. If you don’t find dungeons fun, you don’t do dungeons. If they make it so you can ONLY get rewards from dungeons and you want those rewards, you’re forced to do something you’re not enjoying, at which point, it’s not a game anymore.

Sure anyone CAN do it. I can go to the gym and work out too, but I don’t, because I don’t find it fun. The thing is, I have huge amounts of time to play so it doesn’t matter if some stuff I do isn’t fun for a bit, but people who have less time to play…it becomes a bigger deal. How many of these people are there? What is the threshold before they throw in the towel? It varies from person to person.

But it doesn’t make those people wrong.

Doesn’t make them right either

You can’t satisfy 100% of the playerbase
If you don’t find dungeons fun, than you are not going to get the rewards in the dungeons, plain and simple .

There’s still PLENTY of players that find dungeons fun and will do them.

Ya you can go to the gym but you don’t find it fun. Does that mean you are going to complain about not having 6 pack abs or big biceps? Those are the rewards for going to the gym (and dieting lol).

You think its logical and fair to complain about not being able to get those rewards because you don’t find the gym fun?
Because that’s essentially what some of the ppl here are doing – whining unfairly about not getting rewarded when they don’t have the time to do the requirements or don’t enjoy the requirements. Sorry you feel that way, but thats not how life works. You get what you work for.

Vayne.8563:

dsslive.8473:

Stars.2179:

Actually, there are such thing is non-viable builds a well as game play. Just because Goku or Abe or Wethospu can solo the crap out of everything naked doesn’t mean other people can do it. There are such thing as non-viable way of playing for others and for them, sometimes it IS IMPOSSIBLE!

not sure if this was in reply to my response to the arah guy, but here we go

He already managed to complete arah once, so it’s not out of his reach, the thing is that it simply took too long (all dungeons are gonna take long if you’re doing the for the first time) Instead of sking for help or just joining a party and learning as he goes he decides it’s “out of reach” when it really isn’t. No one is saying he should be able to solo arah naked (i surely can’t), you don’t do dungeons alone, you’re there with a group and most of the times (from my experience) people are totally willing to explain the bossfights and to help (ofcourse there are exceptions).

So no, it’s not “impossible”, he jsut made the decision that it wasn’t worht the effort. And thats a totally valid decision, there are skins i like but i just don’t see it being worth the effort, they aren’t “impossible” to obtain for me though (and i’m far from good). It’s just me weighing their value agaisnt whether i’d enjoy getting them. I rather have fun , than force myself to grind or do something unfun for a skin. And that’s okay, i won’t get that skin , i move on.

Wrong or right, that’s the attitude of a lot of people. This isn’t a job, it’s a game. You play games to have fun. If you don’t find dungeons fun, you don’t do dungeons. If they make it so you can ONLY get rewards from dungeons and you want those rewards, you’re forced to do something you’re not enjoying, at which point, it’s not a game anymore.

Sure anyone CAN do it. I can go to the gym and work out too, but I don’t, because I don’t find it fun. The thing is, I have huge amounts of time to play so it doesn’t matter if some stuff I do isn’t fun for a bit, but people who have less time to play…it becomes a bigger deal. How many of these people are there? What is the threshold before they throw in the towel? It varies from person to person.

But it doesn’t make those people wrong.

I never said anything about right or wrong, so hold that horse a bit longer

Yes, this is a game, i never once compared it to a job, i didn’t tell anyone to do anyhting they don’t enjoy, i surely don’t. I play to have fun, for me in gw2 i have fun playing fractals and the occasional dungeons, but mostly from exploring and the story (which since it’s been on hold, so has my playing time for awhile)

The thing is, there are plenty of skins out of my reach , i don’t have a single legendary (Have never gotten a precursor drop and since grinding gold is boring i don’t do it, i have all the otehr pieces acquierd of the 3 years ive been playing) i don’t have any of the pvp exclusive rewards (i don’t like pvp , i could force myself, but that’s not fun so i don’t do it)and there are plenty of other high cost skins that are out of my reach beause i dislike endless grind.

That doesn’t, however, mean that they should be made more easily available. I have had plenty of times where i wanted a specific piece in one of my armors (i only mix-and-match) and it was one of the skins that i wouldn’t be able to get, unless i play this game aas a job and suck all the fun out of it. The thing is, i recognize it and move on. There is absolutely nothing wrong with connecting certain rewards to certain content. It’s OKAY to not get every skin.

I could make threads about how horrible pvp exclusive skins are because i really want them, but i dont, because they’re not horrible. They create an interesting incentive for people to try out different types of content. And that’s perfectly fine.

I’m all for making certain rewards tied to hard content or specific content, even if that means i can’t get it. My fun doesn’t disappear becasue i can’t ahve that one item, or that one mini. I’m pretty casual (played more casual-hardcore before) I don’t run the most viable builds (i ran a healing necro because i had fun with it lol) , i know somethings wil be out of reach, and ou know what, i’m perfectly fine with that.

And to finish it off with the same type of generalization (might not be the right word) that a lot of people in this thread like to use, i’m prettysure there are plenty of people like me that are okay letting go of a skin because the way to get it isn’t fun.

Vayne.8563:

Wrong or right, that’s the attitude of a lot of people. This isn’t a job, it’s a game. You play games to have fun. If you don’t find dungeons fun, you don’t do dungeons. If they make it so you can ONLY get rewards from dungeons and you want those rewards, you’re forced to do something you’re not enjoying, at which point, it’s not a game anymore.

Sure anyone CAN do it. I can go to the gym and work out too, but I don’t, because I don’t find it fun. The thing is, I have huge amounts of time to play so it doesn’t matter if some stuff I do isn’t fun for a bit, but people who have less time to play…it becomes a bigger deal. How many of these people are there? What is the threshold before they throw in the towel? It varies from person to person.

But it doesn’t make those people wrong.

Fun or not is pretty irrelevant to reward structure though, fun is a subjective thing, some people enjoy mindless grind, some do not, some like pvp, others do not, some just like sitting in LA chatting. You can’t reward people for fun.

Reward structure is build on something more concrete, Time, People required, effort put in and difficulty (% capable of successfully completing it).

Each piece of content having it’s own rewards is far better than everything available to gold in my opinion because everything available for gold reduces the whole game to a gold grind, rather than a content completed. (I burnt out last month haven’t really played since because of the goals left for me in the game most were gold based so the best way to advance them was silver-wastes and it bored me to tears, the only other near alternative would have been dungeons which I’m burnt out on from getting Dungeoneer.)

You may say people will play for fun and not mind inefficiency, but the thing is we’ve seen time and time again they don’t, they pick a goal and take the path of least resistance to it. Be it loot cave in destiny, Yavin 4 slicing in SWTOR, Silverwastes here or whatever MMO, people find a good earner that’s monotonous and doesn’t require thought so they can do it with the least effort (and likely which watching tv/ a movie).
They play the long game, I want x y and z, this is the fastest way to get them.

As for your example, the reward for working out is a toned body and improved physical stats, no matter how many hours you put into cooking, gaming or whatever activities you find fun you won’t get those rewards unless you do those specific activities or compatible physical activities (even then you’d have to work out to get all muscle groups to the same level).

maddoctor.2738:

This is one thing that I’ve been wondering too and I don’t think it’s reasonable to think so. Otherwise, in GW2 case, they would’ve left a very long time ago.

Keep pushing the game in the direction where the “hardcore” and “elites” will be rubbing it in their faces and see them migrate in no time.

The only reason that it hasn’t happen yet, is because you just can’t rub it in. At the moment there’s nothing in the game that you can’t get by simply grinding slowly through it (except the one off event stuff but that’s just an annoyance).

Put stuff they can’t patiently and on their own pace get for themselves and see them wonder what the hell they’re doing. Rewards are important to them too apparently, not just the folks who cheer on for the “challenging” and “exclusive” content.

And no, treating them like dirt and telling them that “look here, there are other stuff you can get you pleb, so shut up” (cause that’s what’s being said in this thread, more or less) won’t help them stay, either.

Now you may dismiss this, or you may not. And there’s only one way to find out. I just hope Anet will let everyone know that the boat is now changing course from inclusive to exclusive (nothing wrong with that, it’s their game they can steer it however they wish) but preferably before people start spending 50 euros for it…

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

dsslive.8473:

Stars.2179:

Actually, there are such thing is non-viable builds a well as game play. Just because Goku or Abe or Wethospu can solo the crap out of everything naked doesn’t mean other people can do it. There are such thing as non-viable way of playing for others and for them, sometimes it IS IMPOSSIBLE!

not sure if this was in reply to my response to the arah guy, but here we go

He already managed to complete arah once, so it’s not out of his reach, the thing is that it simply took too long (all dungeons are gonna take long if you’re doing the for the first time) Instead of sking for help or just joining a party and learning as he goes he decides it’s “out of reach” when it really isn’t. No one is saying he should be able to solo arah naked (i surely can’t), you don’t do dungeons alone, you’re there with a group and most of the times (from my experience) people are totally willing to explain the bossfights and to help (ofcourse there are exceptions).

So no, it’s not “impossible”, he jsut made the decision that it wasn’t worht the effort. And thats a totally valid decision, there are skins i like but i just don’t see it being worth the effort, they aren’t “impossible” to obtain for me though (and i’m far from good). It’s just me weighing their value agaisnt whether i’d enjoy getting them. I rather have fun , than force myself to grind or do something unfun for a skin. And that’s okay, i won’t get that skin , i move on.

Wrong or right, that’s the attitude of a lot of people. This isn’t a job, it’s a game. You play games to have fun. If you don’t find dungeons fun, you don’t do dungeons. If they make it so you can ONLY get rewards from dungeons and you want those rewards, you’re forced to do something you’re not enjoying, at which point, it’s not a game anymore.

Sure anyone CAN do it. I can go to the gym and work out too, but I don’t, because I don’t find it fun. The thing is, I have huge amounts of time to play so it doesn’t matter if some stuff I do isn’t fun for a bit, but people who have less time to play…it becomes a bigger deal. How many of these people are there? What is the threshold before they throw in the towel? It varies from person to person.

But it doesn’t make those people wrong.

Doesn’t make them right either

You can’t satisfy 100% of the playerbase
If you don’t find dungeons fun, than you are not going to get the rewards in the dungeons, plain and simple .

There’s still PLENTY of players that find dungeons fun and will do them.

Ya you can go to the gym but you don’t find it fun. Does that mean you are going to complain about not having 6 pack abs or big biceps? Those are the rewards for going to the gym (and dieting lol).

You think its logical and fair to complain about not being able to get those rewards because you don’t find the gym fun?
Because that’s essentially what some of the ppl here are doing – whining unfairly about not getting rewarded when they don’t have the time to do the requirements or don’t enjoy the requirements. Sorry you feel that way, but thats not how life works. You get what you work for.

And yet, the problem really is solved if you give multiple paths to a reward. They’ve already done this now, but adding dungeon tracks to PvP, so there’s a precedent.

Vayne.8563:

SkiTz.4590:

Vayne.8563:

dsslive.8473:

Stars.2179:

Actually, there are such thing is non-viable builds a well as game play. Just because Goku or Abe or Wethospu can solo the crap out of everything naked doesn’t mean other people can do it. There are such thing as non-viable way of playing for others and for them, sometimes it IS IMPOSSIBLE!

not sure if this was in reply to my response to the arah guy, but here we go

He already managed to complete arah once, so it’s not out of his reach, the thing is that it simply took too long (all dungeons are gonna take long if you’re doing the for the first time) Instead of sking for help or just joining a party and learning as he goes he decides it’s “out of reach” when it really isn’t. No one is saying he should be able to solo arah naked (i surely can’t), you don’t do dungeons alone, you’re there with a group and most of the times (from my experience) people are totally willing to explain the bossfights and to help (ofcourse there are exceptions).

So no, it’s not “impossible”, he jsut made the decision that it wasn’t worht the effort. And thats a totally valid decision, there are skins i like but i just don’t see it being worth the effort, they aren’t “impossible” to obtain for me though (and i’m far from good). It’s just me weighing their value agaisnt whether i’d enjoy getting them. I rather have fun , than force myself to grind or do something unfun for a skin. And that’s okay, i won’t get that skin , i move on.

Wrong or right, that’s the attitude of a lot of people. This isn’t a job, it’s a game. You play games to have fun. If you don’t find dungeons fun, you don’t do dungeons. If they make it so you can ONLY get rewards from dungeons and you want those rewards, you’re forced to do something you’re not enjoying, at which point, it’s not a game anymore.

Sure anyone CAN do it. I can go to the gym and work out too, but I don’t, because I don’t find it fun. The thing is, I have huge amounts of time to play so it doesn’t matter if some stuff I do isn’t fun for a bit, but people who have less time to play…it becomes a bigger deal. How many of these people are there? What is the threshold before they throw in the towel? It varies from person to person.

But it doesn’t make those people wrong.

Doesn’t make them right either

You can’t satisfy 100% of the playerbase
If you don’t find dungeons fun, than you are not going to get the rewards in the dungeons, plain and simple .

There’s still PLENTY of players that find dungeons fun and will do them.

Ya you can go to the gym but you don’t find it fun. Does that mean you are going to complain about not having 6 pack abs or big biceps? Those are the rewards for going to the gym (and dieting lol).

You think its logical and fair to complain about not being able to get those rewards because you don’t find the gym fun?
Because that’s essentially what some of the ppl here are doing – whining unfairly about not getting rewarded when they don’t have the time to do the requirements or don’t enjoy the requirements. Sorry you feel that way, but thats not how life works. You get what you work for.

And yet, the problem really is solved if you give multiple paths to a reward. They’ve already done this now, but adding dungeon tracks to PvP, so there’s a precedent.

Sure , but it comes down to anet making that call.

Will there be multiple paths to a reward? probably, but the path everyone takes is just simply buying it from the TP by farming the most casual , easiest way possible (running circles in SW)

Just because they have done it doesn’t mean they will continue to do it in every case. the jury is still out for the new stuff coming in HoT (legendary backpeice through fractal/PvP league ONLY).

Once we get a better idea about this new challenging content release in HoT, we will know for certain, but I have a pretty good feeling the rewards for anets alleged “most challenging content release to date” will not simple be BUYABLE through TP….which is exactly what some of you players want because you are afraid of challenge, because you are afraid of not being good enough, or having enough time, or saying you don’t find it fun.

Whatever it is, there will be excuses by this group of ppl who find that they can’t simple BUY whatever it is they want… I for one am glad to see rewards tied strictly into certain things (like the legendary backpeice). and I hope THAT TREND continues when anet releases their new challenging content

maddoctor.2738:

Really? So adding a couple of new skins in content not doable by everyone suddenly will force 75% of the playerbase to leave? Out of a million skins they can’t get ONE and it’s the end of the world?

Blatant exaggeration does not help anyone’s position, including yours.

IndigoSundown.5419:

maddoctor.2738:

Really? So adding a couple of new skins in content not doable by everyone suddenly will force 75% of the playerbase to leave? Out of a million skins they can’t get ONE and it’s the end of the world?

Blatant exaggeration does not help anyone’s position, including yours.

I’m not the one exaggerating, I didn’t say that adding a couple of new skins “out of reach” will lead the playerbase to leave the game.

IndigoSundown.5419:

maddoctor.2738:

Really? So adding a couple of new skins in content not doable by everyone suddenly will force 75% of the playerbase to leave? Out of a million skins they can’t get ONE and it’s the end of the world?

Blatant exaggeration does not help anyone’s position, including yours.

when did people become incapable of parsing literary techniques like hyperbole, analogies metaphors and similies.

did you really think he meant 1 million skins compared to 1? isnt it clear that there is fairly low ratio of exclusive, challenging content gear?

if i say theres a ton of reasons does the weight of the reasons have to equal 2000 lbs?
If i say something killed the fun, do i have to provide a body a motive and an eyewitness to the murder?

phys.7689:

if i say theres a ton of reasons does the weight of the reasons have to equal 2000 lbs?
If i say something killed the fun, do i have to provide a body a motive and an eyewitness to the murder?

In these forums the answer is unfortunately yes.

Devata.6589:

Fox.3469:

Conski Deshan.2057:

Fox.3469:

Conski Deshan.2057:

If a full set of say 8 warriors can just blow through it , it indicates that the games mechanics are not being fully utilized.

I have to say i strongly disagree with this. If a full set of berserker warriors, all with the same weapons can blast trough it, then yes. However if you have allot of different specs and playstyles of the warrior in your group. Then 8 warriors should be just fine.

You have to have different roles, classes are flavour, but the role they fill should be important.

I would consider classes to be more than flavor.
I said mechanically, and what I mean by that is, there may be a portion of the fight that requires reflects (like arah but say damageable by normal means), Water fields may be required for another section, invisibility for a section where you have to stealth through and agro results in insta-kill, A crowd control fight where you have to prevent several enemies from reaching a location through soft CC.

Even 8 different spec’d warriors would feel too low diversity wise.

I don’t mean to say it has to be optimal, just possible. If not you just impose certain classes upon the group.

If different roles are not required you never get the feeling you really make a change. It’s more the the ‘just everybody DPS the hell out of it’.

That is what i said… Dear lord people read, i said before 8 warriors should be able to complete it, but not 8 berserkers. Warrior can fill allot of different roles. I explained that your class shouldn’t matter that much, but your role should. and in role i mean wether you are more tanky, dps heavy, or support based.

I agree with the OP 100 percent on this.

Like many, I want more challenging content in all areas of the game (a lot) – but I want it so that I feel challenged and have fun doing the content, not so I can obtain something that others cannot.

Differentiated gear tiers (of any kind) is a relic from other MMOs. GW2 takes that drama out of the game and puts the focus solely on what it should be on – the content and personal satisfaction that comes from beating that content.

people that compare this to real life are just not getting it… This isn’t real life!! Its a game meant for enjoyment. You cant compare scenarios to real life here, cuz it doesn’t make any sense. If you want to play like real life, then go to REAL LIFE… comparing this to a gym to get 6 pack abs… pfff… Lipo and implants can give you that with no effort… or I could just select 6 pack abs on my toon from a menu… should I wait 4 years to add longer hair to my toon cuz ittakes that long in real life??? should I make my toon as ugly as possible to imitate my own look in real life? and the opposite, should I choose to have the prettiest toon possible to fit my real life self image? Jesus people… Games are designed to have fun, not to be real life work. Go ahead and have your hard content, just don’t gate the rewards behind things a lot of people cant obtain, regardless of how hard they work at it.

There is not a kitten thing wrong with making something hard to get and have multiple ways to do it. THE ONLY REASON to keep it gated is to make it so your selfish kitten can walk around PVE and gloat… PERIOD. Don’t try to hide behind that cowl of “oh you just have to work for it” nonsense, cuz that SCREAMS of “im better than you and I want to show it off”.

Blaeys.3102:

I agree with the OP 100 percent on this.

Like many, I want more challenging content in all areas of the game (a lot) – but I want it so that I feel challenged and have fun doing the content, not so I can obtain something that others cannot.

Differentiated gear tiers (of any kind) is a relic from other MMOs. GW2 takes that drama out of the game and puts the focus solely on what it should be on – the content and personal satisfaction that comes from beating that content.

No one was talking about gear tiers? unless you mean cosmetic differences?

I’m genuinely curious about the people so against any form of exclusivity or “elitism” (although from the descriptions of their version of it it sounds like standard improving and advancing.)
Your vision of an MMO seems to be a glorified single-player game with co-op, everyone goes through relatively the same steps and reaches the same end-point no real differences everyone has the same items and experiences.
Rather than the virtual world experience that MMO’s were designed to recreate, You know what a world has? Once off events that occur (in game mechanics these provide rewards), A hierarchy based on experience (Your MMO veterans) and skill (your elites) not to mention wildly different player experiences and shockingly rewards/experiences that not everyone gets.

Everyone starts at the bottom, you work your way up and advance through the MMO being rewarded more the further you get the higher you reach, but there has to be a drive to get to the top and unique rewards are there to provide that extra bit of drive and acknowledge the achievement.
Your likes /dislike and what you think is fun are irrelevant, the world is there and the path to move up in it is clear it’s your choice to participate or not, either way success is not guaranteed.

and that’s what you fail to understand, this is a fantasy world, not real life. If we wanted real life, we would stay in REAL LIFE LAND. If you make a game people hate, how can you expect to make it popular. The fan base of this game is largely casual. therefore you must make content scale to that or people become disinterested in the game and move on.

prime example of our likes and dislikes being catered to… recent revenant changes from beta. A lot of people hate the sword damage, hated not being able to weapon swap, hated having no support function. Guess what… they implemented all that stuff cuz we asked for it and hated the way it was before. They are continuing to change things based upon what we tell them we LIKE AND DISLIKE.

I really don’t get why people are so against challenging content giving better or exclusive rewards….I mean heck. Challenging doesn’t nesscarily mean long, and it also doesn’t necessarily mean “oh you have to be this or we’ll kick you!” That sorta stuff is already happening today in content that’s too easy! Challenging content will allow for more varied builds. And if you still don’t want to be bothered with the challenge, or want to get them rwards quick as possible, then just make a thief or Mesmer and skip 90% of it.

It’s like saying you want the fume knight weapons and armor without fighting him, or gold camo without doing the head shots.

And don’t think for a second that just because the world is their and the path is set in its current form, that it cannot or will not be changed. HoT is showing you otherwise atm, along with every other MMO that introduces new game enhancement type patches….

CorrynnStarr.7942:

and that’s what you fail to understand, this is a fantasy world, not real life. If we wanted real life, we would stay in REAL LIFE LAND. If you make a game people hate, how can you expect to make it popular. The fan base of this game is largely casual. therefore you must make content scale to that or people become disinterested in the game and move on.

prime example of our likes and dislikes being catered to… recent revenant changes from beta. A lot of people hate the sword damage, hated not being able to weapon swap, hated having no support function. Guess what… they implemented all that stuff cuz we asked for it and hated the way it was before. They are continuing to change things based upon what we tell them we LIKE AND DISLIKE.

NEWSFLASH – 95% of the content has been largely casual. You have been catered for the last 3 freaking years. You will continued to be catered to as well. You think all these casuals will quit because all of a sudden a couple new skins are restricted behind something they don’t enjoy doing (PvP leagues/fractals for new backpeice).

Are casuals that greedy that they want 100% of the game to be catered to there demands only? 95% isn’t good enough huh? Don’t add anything too hard/too restrictive or masses of ppl will leave this game? really? thats your threat?

TheLastNobody.8319:

I really don’t get why people are so against challenging content giving better or exclusive rewards….I mean heck. Challenging doesn’t nesscarily mean long, and it also doesn’t necessarily mean “oh you have to be this or we’ll kick you!” That sorta stuff is already happening today in content that’s too easy! Challenging content will allow for more varied builds. And if you still don’t want to be bothered with the challenge, or want to get them rwards quick as possible, then just make a thief or Mesmer and skip 90% of it.

It’s like saying you want the fume knight weapons and armor without fighting him, or gold camo without doing the head shots.

you guys seem to still be laboring under the falsehood that we want it handed to us… we don’t. We just don’t want things gated to the point only the top 10 players in the world can ever get their hands on. Cuz currently you have to be in the very top tier in order to get the things you need for the PVP backpiece…. It needs to be attainable by more then ten kitten people in the game, who don’t have the time to PVP 8 hous a day to get it!

IndigoSundown.5419:

maddoctor.2738:

Really? So adding a couple of new skins in content not doable by everyone suddenly will force 75% of the playerbase to leave? Out of a million skins they can’t get ONE and it’s the end of the world?

Blatant exaggeration does not help anyone’s position, including yours.

I don’t know about the “million skins” but that is probably a figure of speech like phys.7689 has mentioned above.

However, the “75% of the playerbase” was just a quote from CorrynnStarr.7942 who actually believes that adding a bit of challenging content would mean the end of a 10 year old franchise. That’s how ridiculous this is getting for the lack of better arguments against adding a bit of challenging content.

Dhorghar.5249:

IndigoSundown.5419:

maddoctor.2738:

Really? So adding a couple of new skins in content not doable by everyone suddenly will force 75% of the playerbase to leave? Out of a million skins they can’t get ONE and it’s the end of the world?

Blatant exaggeration does not help anyone’s position, including yours.

I don’t know about the “million skins” but that is probably a figure of speech like phys.7689 has mentioned above.

However, the “75% of the playerbase” was just a quote from CorrynnStarr.7942 who actually believes that adding a bit of challenging content would mean the end of a 10 year old franchise. That’s how ridiculous this is getting for the lack of better arguments against adding a bit of challenging content.

wildstar, eso, raiderz, archage, Tera, SWG… do I need to list more games that went spiraling down because the player base got upset and moved on?

And once again you are laboring under the false pretense that we want to stop challenging content… we don’t. Have your challenging content, but don’t make rewards gated behind exclusivity, or people will give up and not play it.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

TheLastNobody.8319:

I really don’t get why people are so against challenging content giving better or exclusive rewards….I mean heck. Challenging doesn’t nesscarily mean long, and it also doesn’t necessarily mean “oh you have to be this or we’ll kick you!” That sorta stuff is already happening today in content that’s too easy! Challenging content will allow for more varied builds. And if you still don’t want to be bothered with the challenge, or want to get them rwards quick as possible, then just make a thief or Mesmer and skip 90% of it.

It’s like saying you want the fume knight weapons and armor without fighting him, or gold camo without doing the head shots.

you guys seem to still be laboring under the falsehood that we want it handed to us… we don’t. We just don’t want things gated to the point only the top 10 players in the world can ever get their hands on. Cuz currently you have to be in the very top tier in order to get the things you need for the PVP backpiece…. It needs to be attainable by more then ten kitten people in the game, who don’t have the time to PVP 8 hous a day to get it!

You seem to not be able to read.
Who the heck is adding something only top 10 players can get?

quote regarding the pvp backpeice

In addition to badges showing your current standing and titles to show that you made it to the top, all players will have the opportunity to work toward a progression of back items, earning the Wings of Glory. Crossing into a more advanced division will earn you League Tokens. These tokens can be exchanged for the first level of wings, and additional tokens can be exchanged to upgrade your wings to progressively more awesome levels. Though this new legendary item will focus on having players earn rewards from competitive PvP, it will also require attaining other items that go into the final collection to build it.

What level of reading comprehension makes you think that quote means only top 10 players will build the legendary backpeice???

Will you have spend some serious time in pvp to get it? absolutely.
But to say ITS IMPOSSIBLE is a blatant lie.

Ppl who spend that much time in PvP will get rewarded accordingly.
Just like Ppl spending that much time in PvE get rewarded accordingly.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

Dhorghar.5249:

IndigoSundown.5419:

maddoctor.2738:

Really? So adding a couple of new skins in content not doable by everyone suddenly will force 75% of the playerbase to leave? Out of a million skins they can’t get ONE and it’s the end of the world?

Blatant exaggeration does not help anyone’s position, including yours.

I don’t know about the “million skins” but that is probably a figure of speech like phys.7689 has mentioned above.

However, the “75% of the playerbase” was just a quote from CorrynnStarr.7942 who actually believes that adding a bit of challenging content would mean the end of a 10 year old franchise. That’s how ridiculous this is getting for the lack of better arguments against adding a bit of challenging content.

wildstar, eso, raiderz, archage, Tera, SWG… do I need to list more games that went spiraling down because the player base got upset and moved on?

And once again you are laboring under the false pretense that we want to inhikittenallenging content… we don’t. Have your challenging content, but don’t make rewards gated behind exclusivity, or people will give up and not play it.

Those games had flaws in their game design/ fundamental problems
not freaking issues with rewards!! NO ONE leaves a good game because you couldn’t obtain a certain freaking item. You are seriously grasping at straws

CorrynnStarr.7942:

Dhorghar.5249:

IndigoSundown.5419:

maddoctor.2738:

Really? So adding a couple of new skins in content not doable by everyone suddenly will force 75% of the playerbase to leave? Out of a million skins they can’t get ONE and it’s the end of the world?

Blatant exaggeration does not help anyone’s position, including yours.

I don’t know about the “million skins” but that is probably a figure of speech like phys.7689 has mentioned above.

However, the “75% of the playerbase” was just a quote from CorrynnStarr.7942 who actually believes that adding a bit of challenging content would mean the end of a 10 year old franchise. That’s how ridiculous this is getting for the lack of better arguments against adding a bit of challenging content.

wildstar, eso, raiderz, archage, Tera, SWG… do I need to list more games that went spiraling down because the player base got upset and moved on?

And once again you are laboring under the false pretense that we want to stop challenging content… we don’t. Have your challenging content, but don’t make rewards gated behind exclusivity, or people will give up and not play it.

I have to agree with most players in this thread, you are blowing things out of proportion.

This is what Colin said in an interview on Tentonhammer:

Ten Ton Hammer: Guild Wars 2 isn’t known for being a challenging game and rival products such as WildStar that pushed a hardcore agenda struggled to retain players. Why have you decided to now implement more challenging content with Heart Of Thorns?

Colin: […] So why more challenging content now? Simply put – it’s what our players have been asking for – and we agree with them that it will make Guild Wars 2 a deeper and more compelling game experience. We don’t have issues retaining players, and we think providing more content they are excited about will only be better for us in the long run.

/Thread

Official statement… the rest you DINT post..

In addition to Wings of Glory, we’re adding a new unique item you can earn for competing in PvP leagues—a legendary one! Participating in league play will allow you to begin a journey toward building an entirely new and unique legendary back item. You’ll begin by gaining the ability to build the collection for the precursor; later, you’ll build that precursor into a legendary backpack, the Ascension. Though this new legendary item will focus on having players earn rewards from competitive PvP, it will also require attaining other items that go into the final collection to build it.

DULFY:
Six divisions starting with Amber and ending at Legendary.

Each division is divided into several tiers represented by pips.
To cross into the next division, you must complete all the tiers in your current division.

Division 1 the starter division will only reward forward progress but starting at division 2 and 3 winning matters as losing cause you to lose pips but you will not lose tiers.

Once you hit division 4 and 5, you can lose both pips and tiers when you lose a match but you will never go back to a previous division.

The 6th division the Legendary Division is a repeatable division that provides better rewards.

Earn league tokens to spend on PvP exclusive items like the back item Wings of Glory. Once you hit the Legendary division you will be able to work towards the legendary version of the backpiece.

So tell me… is everyone going to be able to advance to the legendary league? or are only the teams that are the most skilled gonna dominate this league? Cuz in order to get the LEGENDARY version of the back piece… you will have to be a skilled player working in this top tier league.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

Official statement… the rest you DINT post..

In addition to Wings of Glory, we’re adding a new unique item you can earn for competing in PvP leagues—a legendary one! Participating in league play will allow you to begin a journey toward building an entirely new and unique legendary back item. You’ll begin by gaining the ability to build the collection for the precursor; later, you’ll build that precursor into a legendary backpack, the Ascension. Though this new legendary item will focus on having players earn rewards from competitive PvP, it will also require attaining other items that go into the final collection to build it.

DULFY:
Six divisions starting with Amber and ending at Legendary.

Each division is divided into several tiers represented by pips.
To cross into the next division, you must complete all the tiers in your current division.

Division 1 the starter division will only reward forward progress but starting at division 2 and 3 winning matters as losing cause you to lose pips but you will not lose tiers.

Once you hit division 4 and 5, you can lose both pips and tiers when you lose a match but you will never go back to a previous division.

The 6th division the Legendary Division is a repeatable division that provides better rewards.

Earn league tokens to spend on PvP exclusive items like the back item Wings of Glory. Once you hit the Legendary division you will be able to work towards the legendary version of the backpiece.

So tell me… is everyone going to be able to advance to the legendary league? or are only the teams that are the most skilled gonna dominate this league? Cuz in order to get the LEGENDARY version of the back piece… you will have to be a skilled player working in this top tier league.

Good players get good looking skins without stat advantages. So what’s the problem here?
You can still get to the highest division even when you only play one game per day so there isn’t even a time commitment, plus you can soloq which eliminates the need for a static group.
This ‘I want everything’ attitude from some people in here is seriously baffeling.
Not everything is for everyone. Get over it.

I’d rather not have more challenging content in open world PvE and Personal/living story content.

I feel a hard mode option is perfectly acceptable for dungeons and fractals where it is instanced for coordinated team game play.

Lynne.8416:

I’d rather not have more challenging content in open world PvE and Personal/living story content.

I feel a hard mode option is perfectly acceptable for dungeons and fractals where it is instanced for coordinated team game play.

That’s pretty much the only place you could put it. You really can’t design very hard content for 60 man pug groups.

Crovax.7854:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

Official statement… the rest you DINT post..

In addition to Wings of Glory, we’re adding a new unique item you can earn for competing in PvP leagues—a legendary one! Participating in league play will allow you to begin a journey toward building an entirely new and unique legendary back item. You’ll begin by gaining the ability to build the collection for the precursor; later, you’ll build that precursor into a legendary backpack, the Ascension. Though this new legendary item will focus on having players earn rewards from competitive PvP, it will also require attaining other items that go into the final collection to build it.

DULFY:
Six divisions starting with Amber and ending at Legendary.

Each division is divided into several tiers represented by pips.
To cross into the next division, you must complete all the tiers in your current division.

Division 1 the starter division will only reward forward progress but starting at division 2 and 3 winning matters as losing cause you to lose pips but you will not lose tiers.

Once you hit division 4 and 5, you can lose both pips and tiers when you lose a match but you will never go back to a previous division.

The 6th division the Legendary Division is a repeatable division that provides better rewards.

Earn league tokens to spend on PvP exclusive items like the back item Wings of Glory. Once you hit the Legendary division you will be able to work towards the legendary version of the backpiece.

So tell me… is everyone going to be able to advance to the legendary league? or are only the teams that are the most skilled gonna dominate this league? Cuz in order to get the LEGENDARY version of the back piece… you will have to be a skilled player working in this top tier league.

Good players get good looking skins without stat advantages. So what’s the problem here?
You can still get to the highest division even when you only play one game per day so there isn’t even a time commitment, plus you can soloq which eliminates the need for a static group.
This ‘I want everything’ attitude from some people in here is seriously baffeling.
Not everything is for everyone. Get over it.

there is no problem with good players getting good skins, this is the last time im going to say this so pay attention to what I say! HAVE YOUR HARD CONTENT, THATS NOT THE PROBLEM… the issue is gating it to the top 2% of players in the whole game. It needs to be accessible to a wider range of players. The way they have outlined it is, only players in the top tier of the legendary league will be able to get all the required items to make the legendary pack. So unless they have changed this recently and someone can post a link, I assume its still the standard to go by. not everybody can be in the top tier if you lose pips and tiers by losing matches etc… ergo, these items will be exclusive to the top 2% of players… whether that threshold is 10 players or 100 players is up to anet. but with a touted 450,000 players active and online, that’s an awful lot of people left without any ability to get this item. just find a better way for christs sake, that’s all were asking, we don’t care if its hard, just don’t make it impossible.

Vayne.8563:

People are fond of comparing this game to Guild Wars 1. There was very little in Guild Wars 1 that couldn’t be purchased with gold. Arguably, the hardest weapons to attain were the weapons from DOA, or maybe rare stuff like the celestial compass, the bonecage scythe, the frog scepter or the voltaic spear.

All these high end items were available to sell. You didn’t have to be great to get them. You could farm feathers in a low end zone over and over till you could afford to purchase them.

No one in Guild Wars 1 seemed that riled that their rewards weren’t exclusive. It allowed players who wanted challenge to do challenging content and profit. It allowed less intense players to have the rewards.

I think this is the best solution all the way around.

To those who support those hard core rewards, I guarantee you if there are enough rewards casual players can’t get, you won’t have enough players left to continue running the game. Casuals, in my opinion, make a vast percentage of the playerbase. The more you put out of their reach, the more of them you lose.

I agree with this sentiment completely.

The guy who gets the super rare drop can hold onto it or get rich by selling it. Either way he is greatly rewarded for participating in the content that produced the drop. Meanwhile the player who doesn’t care for content X can farm content Y to finance his purchase of the item. Its a win/win.

Vayne.8563:

dsslive.8473:

Stars.2179:

Actually, there are such thing is non-viable builds a well as game play. Just because Goku or Abe or Wethospu can solo the crap out of everything naked doesn’t mean other people can do it. There are such thing as non-viable way of playing for others and for them, sometimes it IS IMPOSSIBLE!

not sure if this was in reply to my response to the arah guy, but here we go

He already managed to complete arah once, so it’s not out of his reach, the thing is that it simply took too long (all dungeons are gonna take long if you’re doing the for the first time) Instead of sking for help or just joining a party and learning as he goes he decides it’s “out of reach” when it really isn’t. No one is saying he should be able to solo arah naked (i surely can’t), you don’t do dungeons alone, you’re there with a group and most of the times (from my experience) people are totally willing to explain the bossfights and to help (ofcourse there are exceptions).

So no, it’s not “impossible”, he jsut made the decision that it wasn’t worht the effort. And thats a totally valid decision, there are skins i like but i just don’t see it being worth the effort, they aren’t “impossible” to obtain for me though (and i’m far from good). It’s just me weighing their value agaisnt whether i’d enjoy getting them. I rather have fun , than force myself to grind or do something unfun for a skin. And that’s okay, i won’t get that skin , i move on.

Wrong or right, that’s the attitude of a lot of people. This isn’t a job, it’s a game. You play games to have fun. If you don’t find dungeons fun, you don’t do dungeons. If they make it so you can ONLY get rewards from dungeons and you want those rewards, you’re forced to do something you’re not enjoying, at which point, it’s not a game anymore.

Sure anyone CAN do it. I can go to the gym and work out too, but I don’t, because I don’t find it fun. The thing is, I have huge amounts of time to play so it doesn’t matter if some stuff I do isn’t fun for a bit, but people who have less time to play…it becomes a bigger deal. How many of these people are there? What is the threshold before they throw in the towel? It varies from person to person.

But it doesn’t make those people wrong.

Yeah but how do you balance it out if I only ever wanted to roleplay and run 50 laps around divinity reach every day and I don’t find dungeons nor fractal fun AT ALL. I HATE THEM but I WANT those skins ANYWAY. So should I be just get them without doing the appropriate contents?

CorrynnStarr.7942:

we don’t care if its hard, just don’t make it impossible.

I see this quote or similar a lot from people, you know what hard content is? it’s content some people CAN’T do, therefore it’s impossible for someone, if it wasn’t then the content isn’t hard because everyone was able to complete it.

It’s the same for people who go "Oh I want rare items just not so rare that not everyone can get it ", Rare is literally that there are far less of these in existence than people who want them and will always be the case.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

ergo, these items will be exclusive to the top 2% of players… whether that threshold is 10 players or 100 players is up to anet. but with a touted 450,000 players active and online, that’s an awful lot of people left without any ability to get this item. just find a better way for christs sake,
that’s all were asking,

In your example here 9,000 people will have this backpiece, that is enough people that odds are you could go to any map at any time of day and someone on that map would have that back-piece, that is a lot of people for a prestige item.

When you consider that the existing Pvp league only 35 people per region get a piece of glorious hero pvp armor per league your figure is likely on the too high side.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/test-your-mettle-in-the-second-player-vs-player-ladder-test-season/

To give you an idea,
Pvp leagues in other games usually award the top 96 players
In another game I played the top 100 PvEr’s got unique clothing/items too

These items are meant to be rare and prestigious, that means a very small number of players get them, and that’s ok, because they kitten well earned it.
You’re not being left out, it was never for you, it wasn’t made for you to get, heck you weren’t even considered in the design process.

Stars.2179:

Vayne.8563:

dsslive.8473:

Stars.2179:

Actually, there are such thing is non-viable builds a well as game play. Just because Goku or Abe or Wethospu can solo the crap out of everything naked doesn’t mean other people can do it. There are such thing as non-viable way of playing for others and for them, sometimes it IS IMPOSSIBLE!

not sure if this was in reply to my response to the arah guy, but here we go

He already managed to complete arah once, so it’s not out of his reach, the thing is that it simply took too long (all dungeons are gonna take long if you’re doing the for the first time) Instead of sking for help or just joining a party and learning as he goes he decides it’s “out of reach” when it really isn’t. No one is saying he should be able to solo arah naked (i surely can’t), you don’t do dungeons alone, you’re there with a group and most of the times (from my experience) people are totally willing to explain the bossfights and to help (ofcourse there are exceptions).

So no, it’s not “impossible”, he jsut made the decision that it wasn’t worht the effort. And thats a totally valid decision, there are skins i like but i just don’t see it being worth the effort, they aren’t “impossible” to obtain for me though (and i’m far from good). It’s just me weighing their value agaisnt whether i’d enjoy getting them. I rather have fun , than force myself to grind or do something unfun for a skin. And that’s okay, i won’t get that skin , i move on.

Wrong or right, that’s the attitude of a lot of people. This isn’t a job, it’s a game. You play games to have fun. If you don’t find dungeons fun, you don’t do dungeons. If they make it so you can ONLY get rewards from dungeons and you want those rewards, you’re forced to do something you’re not enjoying, at which point, it’s not a game anymore.

Sure anyone CAN do it. I can go to the gym and work out too, but I don’t, because I don’t find it fun. The thing is, I have huge amounts of time to play so it doesn’t matter if some stuff I do isn’t fun for a bit, but people who have less time to play…it becomes a bigger deal. How many of these people are there? What is the threshold before they throw in the towel? It varies from person to person.

But it doesn’t make those people wrong.

Yeah but how do you balance it out if I only ever wanted to roleplay and run 50 laps around divinity reach every day and I don’t find dungeons nor fractal fun AT ALL. I HATE THEM but I WANT those skins ANYWAY. So should I be just get them without doing the appropriate contents?

you totally misunderstand the premise here, were not saying we shouldn’t do pvp at all and still get the reward, just lessen the threshold of what has to be done within the PVP area to obtain it.

What you are going to end up with is a top percentage of skilled PVP players keeping everyone else out of the ability to get said items. What that will in turn do is make a lot of players angry and stop playing PVP. I know If I cant make it to the top tiered area to earn what I need for the skin, then Im not even gonna try to begin with. Has nothing to do with wanting or not wanting to do the content. Its the same for fractals, If I cant get to the lvl 50 content for that extra reward, then im not gonna play fractals. It just needs a broader standard to go by is all. that’s how you balance it.

For instance… top tier legendary league players can earn those items rather quickly, say… in a weeks time. Making those same items available to the lower tiers might take say… 3 weeks time instead of it being Never due to being pushed out of the top tier by the more skilled players.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

People are fond of comparing this game to Guild Wars 1. There was very little in Guild Wars 1 that couldn’t be purchased with gold. Arguably, the hardest weapons to attain were the weapons from DOA, or maybe rare stuff like the celestial compass, the bonecage scythe, the frog scepter or the voltaic spear.

All these high end items were available to sell. You didn’t have to be great to get them. You could farm feathers in a low end zone over and over till you could afford to purchase them.

No one in Guild Wars 1 seemed that riled that their rewards weren’t exclusive. It allowed players who wanted challenge to do challenging content and profit. It allowed less intense players to have the rewards.

I think this is the best solution all the way around.

To those who support those hard core rewards, I guarantee you if there are enough rewards casual players can’t get, you won’t have enough players left to continue running the game. Casuals, in my opinion, make a vast percentage of the playerbase. The more you put out of their reach, the more of them you lose.

I agree with this sentiment completely.

The guy who gets the super rare drop can hold onto it or get rich by selling it. Either way he is greatly rewarded for participating in the content that produced the drop. Meanwhile the player who doesn’t care for content X can farm content Y to finance his purchase of the item. Its a win/win.

this isnt about item rarity though, its about reward vs difficulty. there can be many people who do something that is challenging.