Guild Wars 2

Malediktus.9250:

Anet is making a game for everyone. I would assume the top 10% of the active playerbase puts in over 50% of the total hours played. So if Anet would bore them away, the (ultra) casuals would have much less people to play with.

This is just the same old assumption that casual = “almost never plays the game,” when, in many cases, it is simply a description of “level of seriousness with which the game is taken” and/or “level of skill.”

The “top 10%” can very easily, especially with how easy most of this game was prior to HoT, be made up in large part of people who are both very active and very “casual” in terms of skill level.

fixit.7189:

I used to considered this the best MMO ever and infact prior to HoT I rarely said a bad word about it….well that’s changed with this expansion; I can’t say one positive thing about the HoT.

If u cant say one positive thing about hot then ur biased and not to be taken seriously.

Tommyknocker.6089:

ODB.6891:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Malediktus.9250:

It is still very casual friendly, just not friendly to bad players who are unwilling to improve. Casual does not equal bad player. Even players with a low amount of time can play very well if they desire.

And that in a nutshell is the problem with the direction ANet has taken. When it was first introduced it was advertised as the game for those that don’t like the traditional MMO. Friendly atmosphere, no grind, no “I swing a sword again”.

But the current iteration is EXACTLY what many of us were running away from!

The entire “get gud” attitude was something I never wanted to see in this game, now it seems that GW2 is no better than any other WOW clone out there.

Good luck finding any MMO that can survive long term, without any type of challenging content for their players.

The thing is that I am not alone in my wishes and eventually an MMO will come out that caters to our way of wanting to play. Where the money goes so does the direction of the gaming industry, and many of us older players are the ones with the means to propel the industry where we want it to go.

And truth be told, I found many of the starting areas boring as well, and wanted some improvement in the challenge the mobs offered to me. I did not however want the new challenge" to be gated behind timers or 99% meta events.

Also, and TBH many of us cannot “improve” beyond a certain point due to age, muscle problems, bad connections, the list goes on. So telling us to improve is just an insult as we are indeed doing the best we can!

MMO gaming will never be targeted to the elderly. That’s just not the realistic target audience of a MMO…especially not an action based one. I’m not young anymore either, so there are things that I struggle with as well. I do not expect this genre of gaming to cater to that….I’d be up for a lot of disappointment with that expectation. That’s like expecting pro sports leagues to introduce and maintain a special league for retired players…not really going to happen. Good luck on finding that unicorn.

I do partially agree with you on having available time to participate in map meta events, but here’s the thing. You don’t have to play the whole time during the meta event. You don’t have to be there at the start of the meta event. You still get some rewards for various stages of the meta event that you participate in. I have also found that you can go to LFG and take a taxi into a map that does have a meta event in progress…if your issue is finding one in progress to participate in. You can also just do your own thing on the map and ignore the meta event.

I don’t have a problem with timed events either. There’s nothing wrong with a timed event…so long as its not mandatory, there are not too many of them, and that they are available often enough to retry very soon after failing. The only timed events that I do have an issue with are these mini games that are holding my character building hostage via ANET’s intentional mastery point scarcity. I’m giving up and slowly getting these mini games out of the way so that I can go back to enjoying my semi-casual game play though.

ODB.6891:

…snip
MMO gaming will never be targeted to the elderly. That’s just not the realistic target audience of a MMO…especially not an action based one. I’m not young anymore either, so there are things that I struggle with as well. I do not expect this genre of gaming to cater to that….I’d be up for a lot of disappointment with that expectation. That’s like expecting pro sports leagues to introduce and maintain a special league for retired players…not really going to happen. Good luck on finding that unicorn. …snip

At this point I would be happier with an old folks club of MMO’s than I am with the direction ANet has taken with e-sports and verticallity.

But thanks for your support in finding a Unicorn; they do amazing things with DNA now I hear!

Kampilan.3895:

For the players demanding “challenging” content, the problem is when this kind of content becomes mandatory for everyone. …

But the way certain things are done post-expansion, it seems like the game is highly catered to people with (1) lots of time, (2) lots of money and/or (3) lots of… skills.

No one is twisting anyones arm to do challenging content. It’s there if you want it. Yes there is nice rewards. There is plenty of other ways to get rewards. Raids do have ultra high rewards for ultra hard difficult content. That is fair. Just as ultra fast or easy content (dungeons) have very low rewards.

Kampilan.3895:

The problem is that NECESSARY content is behind this challenging content.

Please do enlighen me what content is necessary and in what way? Seriously this is news to me. You have a choice to do what ever content you want and skipping some does not ruin the experience, in fact in many cases it makes it better in respect to HoT.

Daddicus.6128:

Why are you excluding player-created requirements? Raids are out of the question unless you have maxed your gear, because there are no teams that will allow you to come with them. You are excluding the main source of angst over this.

No full ascended is not mandatory. A guild has done the whole first wing in exotic gear shown that it is very possible with extra time to spare. Having max gear will help do it faster but is not required. 9/10 these ultra harsh requirements are for pug groups and to be frank, you shouldn’t be pugging raids period.

The only people feeling this angst are people trying to pug raids. A lot of it has to do with people not accepting their own mistakes; blaming other people, and people refusing to adapt to the situation before them.

Seriously get a guild or a group a friends do the raid with them. Things will go a million times smoother. I’ve done raids with people that have had some exotic gear we got though fine; no one died of cancer or suddenly got space ascended aids.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Adding difficult content isn’t the issue…adding that content constrained by timers is a problem for many. I have no problem at all with challenging content but gating and locking stuff behind timers is just a pathetic way of trying to stretch content out, simple as that.

This is where I do agree that game has become uncasual, and to be frank not player friendly at all. We have all things going on in our lives and anets shoved their timed schedule down our throats on the new maps. Before HoT, any map I could just hop in and do what needs to be done. Now we spend time waiting on events, trying find a good map for those events, time waiting on events to complete and all of it feels horrible.

Daddicus.6128:

Ayrilana.1396:

Exactly where are you forced by the game to need ascended to do content other than high level fractals? Player created requirements do not count. I could require all players to fight with pink armor but that doesn’t mean it’s actually required for that content.

You can complete all content, other than raids, in whatever build that you want. Everything on the HoT maps can now be done in whatever build you want. Every class can complete any of the HoT content. I’ve done map completion, ran the story, and done metas with all of them. You can do PvP and WvW in any build that you want. Yes, some builds will be more effective than others.

Why are you excluding player-created requirements? Raids are out of the question unless you have maxed your gear, because there are no teams that will allow you to come with them. You are excluding the main source of angst over this.

So make your own team with lower requirements and see how you do.
People exclude because people actually want to get things done. If you value your time you’ll make an effective team.

What’s stopping you from making your own “anything goes” raid group?

I heard KING beat Raids in full exotic gear.

A bit of searching and there it is:

All that remains is that people “get good”.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m sure money is a great motivator. However, I believe that professional pride was also involved. Years of disdain in the many “face-roll easy” posts about the game had to sting. I believe the thinking was along the lines of, "We’ve got the whole of central Tyria for the people who like that kind of thing. Silverwastes was a big success, so HoT will offer more of that type of meta (with changes), more challenging monsters in the zones, raids for the real “we want challenge” people and Tyria Masteries should keep busy the people who will find HoT to be more than they want."

Agreed – I mentioned before how the fact that their content was considered faceroll easy by most must have been a very big PR hit for them.

You can’t really attract a lot of customers when your content is described everywhere as “braindead easy”. I’m guessing it was a way to address this issue too.

Kampilan.3895:

For the players demanding “challenging” content, the problem is when this kind of content becomes mandatory for everyone.

The outcry would not have been so much (at least in the Forums. I rarely see complaints in-game) if certain things were left, as was the way before, to player discretion. We all had choices leading to HoTS. We could all, eventually, become useful members of Tyrian adventuring society, in our own pace, in our own way.

But the way certain things are done post-expansion, it seems like the game is highly catered to people with (1) lots of time, (2) lots of money and/or (3) lots of… skills.

Like, say… WoW. To get to the good stuff and experience the story of each expansion in its full, you had to not only participate in raids but be both (a) competent in them, (b) equipped for them, © specced for them.

Whether or not it was advertised, GW2 showed in the almost two years I’ve played that it… respects my playstyle: the solo casual. Weird in an MMO being a soloist, but it’s there. I’ve sent a decent amount of money to ANet because I grew to love this game. And because I’m such a magpie (might buy my 4th Bank Tab).

Extra gating of “challenging” content could have been done so we casuals won’t stumble onto them and be shown our lack of skillz. And I would be the first to tell the devs that people who go for such content should get a commensurate reward.

The problem is that NECESSARY content is behind this challenging content.

I think only the whiny casuals really, really think the HoTS maps are impossible. I jumped in early at live and tried to persevere. I respecced builds that did okay for me before. I was doing fine.

But it was tiring.

This is a game. A good deal of us play it for fun and relaxation, not to be just as tired as we were when we left school or the office. Do you hardcore players even understand the kind of feeling a casual feels in participating in a World Boss Hunt, a successful Teq, or contributing in WvW? It’s great. It makes you feel like you did something awesome, especially if your IRL was bloody crappy.

You have a right to your challenges. We have a right to our fun.

We don’t have to be debating this because this game could do it at the same time. Look at the Raids. It CAN be done.

The problem, to point it out again, is that they forced us to stand together to deal with content YOU like.

Of course that’s going to be a problem.

I haven’t gone to Verdant in weeks. The most “challenging” I’ve done is Silverwastes early in the cycle and trying to contribute to Teq with a 4k ping. Except for the last one, it was actually fun.

So 3 years of open world Hello Kitty easy mode adventure wasn’t dealing with content YOU liked?

We’ve had 3 years of casual things – why not 3 years of hardcore things?
Why is it that casuals feel entitled to the game?

It is time of holidays.As tradition goes,you have to be kind,and polite to the people,doesn’t matter if they are good or not to you.It is time of giving,and presents.

Now,since i do not have means,i am sure Arena Net does.They talking on every corner,how they care about their players,and how their community is the best one.

To the topic now.Since Arena Net,have access,to the Account Database,and they can see personal info of the players,my suggestion is next :

Since you love your players that much(at least you saying that),giving 10 full access to the core game,to the youngest players,randomly chosen would not be a big deal for you.

I am sure,there’s plenty of people,especially youngsters,who do not have money for the game,and yet they are faithful fans.Giving them something in return,would be nice,especially because Christmas and New year is coming.

Malediktus.9250:

It is still very casual friendly, just not friendly to bad players who are unwilling to improve. Casual does not equal bad player. Even players with a low amount of time can play very well if they desire.

nah, more like casual players that had ton of times to grind. Not every casual players are “unwilling” to improve. AND by spending more time (grinding) and being good (watching other people’s video beating raid bosses and copy the same, LOL?) dont mean these players are more entitled to the game than the casual players. We all PAID the same amount, we are all paying customers, no more, no less.

@CaptainVanguard.4925

I 100% agree with you!

Original Guild Wars 2 was an mmo made to be a good game first with the monetisation a consideration after that. HOT was made with the monetisation as the primary consideration ahead of the game.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Adding difficult content isn’t the issue…adding that content constrained by timers is a problem for many…

This is the problem. The new meta events aren’t particularly challenging per se, but they are not like The Silverwastes, which was very jump in-jump out (if you just wanted to do a Vinewrath kill, you could easily find a taxi for a map very much in progress and on track). For those of us with full time jobs and partners/families and other commitments, you can’t just join a map at any time, play for 30 minutes and get a nice little reward. You will at best just about get your “participation” to 100% and may earn a couple of bonus chests that contain… not much.

While I understand the benefits of scheduling the final parts of the meta events to happen at different times to each other, the fact they are scheduled only really helps those that can schedule their lives around the game, and not vice versa (which I would imagine is the case for most people). So if the times you can play don’t match a meta event that you need to complete, it’s kind of difficult to get much done.

And once you realize you can’t do many of the meta events, Heart of Thorns really doesn’t offer much else on the PvE side outside of hero point hunting on alts for those on a limited game time.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Years of disdain in the many “face-roll easy” posts about the game had to sting.

So, they should listen to the couple dozen loud voices and ignore millions of their other players?

Ayrilana.1396:

Because if the meta were to be that players needed to wear pink armor to do raids, that would not mean that they could not be completed without that. It’s a player made restriction that has nothing to do with the design of the raids.

And it’s the GAME that allows people to demand this. If the game were designed correctly (IMO), there would be a lobby for hardcore gamers, which prevents non-pink gear (or some such mechanic), and non-lobby players would be disciplined for asking.

Ayrilana.1396:

That would be rewards and not content.

Sorry, but I play for rewards. Content is simply a way to obtain rewards.

Ayrilana.1396:

The vast majority of rewards can be earned without needing other players.

Not in HoT. Non-meta rewards are basically junk. And the metas require committed players.

Ayrilana.1396:

What rewards are gated other than the Rev head piece and what involves DS.

They’re ALL gated! How far can you get without gliding? That is a gate! And every other reward after that gate cannot be obtained without crossing that gate. That’s 90% of just VB.

And it’s not the only gate.

Ashen.2907:

I have never seen a statement or advertisement from Anet claimig that gw2 was intended solely for casual play/players.

Not “solely”. Primarily.

DoctorDing.5890:

Malediktus.9250:

I would assume the top 10% of the active playerbase puts in over 50% of the total hours played.

That’s one heck of an assumption.

I disagree with his post, but I think his assumption is probably in the right ballpark.

But, to ANet, it’s not the hours played that counts (or, it shouldn’t be). It’s the money spent that should count. They have to pay the bills. So, my question is do that same 10% spend half the real-life money?

ODB.6891:

Good luck finding any MMO that can survive long term, without any type of challenging content for their players.

Let me think … oh, yeah! Guild Wars. And Guild Wars 2 (before HoT).

But, you’re missing the point completely. I don’t object to challenging content. I object to being forced to play through overly-hard content just to complete the story I payed $100 for. And I REALLY object to being forced to grind my way through masteries while doing it.

Daddicus.6128:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Years of disdain in the many “face-roll easy” posts about the game had to sting.

So, they should listen to the couple dozen loud voices and ignore millions of their other players?

Couple dozen- Where have you been? Since a little after launch the playerbase that wanted harder challenges grew quite a bit, which prompted the launches of such things like Marionette, Revamped Tequatl and Triple Trouble. Yet we still heard thread after thread of criticisms about how easy the content was for years. Don’t pretend that it was just a minority, there was a massive amount of players that wanted GW2 to push the difficulty higher in its content.

Daddicus.6128:

Ayrilana.1396:

Because if the meta were to be that players needed to wear pink armor to do raids, that would not mean that they could not be completed without that. It’s a player made restriction that has nothing to do with the design of the raids.

And it’s the GAME that allows people to demand this. If the game were designed correctly (IMO), there would be a lobby for hardcore gamers, which prevents non-pink gear (or some such mechanic), and non-lobby players would be disciplined for asking.

The game exists as it is, there is zero reason to create such proposals that are ultimately player-driven. Stop blaming the game for the community, rather you should do something about it as a player, and provide a player-made solution like creating your own ‘pink not required’ group. Yes, you have to do Social things in an MMO to get social-related things done go figure.

I think your objections don’t make sense because Anet warned people HoT would be more challenging. I won’t debate with you if it’s overly hard or if getting level 2 masteries are a ‘grind’, but you absolutely can’t complain that you got HoT, and then were surprised that ‘hard’ content prevented you from doing what you assumed you would be able to. Anet put up the red flags; you ignored them.

Labjax.2465:

This is just the same old assumption that casual = “almost never plays the game,” when, in many cases, it is simply a description of “level of seriousness with which the game is taken” and/or “level of skill.”

The “top 10%” can very easily, especially with how easy most of this game was prior to HoT, be made up in large part of people who are both very active and very “casual” in terms of skill level.

Correct. I’ve averaged over 5 hours a day, but I am very casual.

I hope you understand that multiple people go to Guild Wars 2 for multiple reasons. I am an example, I didn’t play Guild Wars 2 for it’s casual-friendly progression but its dynamic events, combat, and lore.

You don’t need to do raids, you do don’t need to do high level fractals, and you don’t need to craft ascended armor. All of this mentioned is only a small portion of Arenanet’s main focus, but as they stated, is intended for hardcore players because hardcore players did not have any hardcore content to begin with.

In fact, they made fractals a lot easier, and designed masteries to be account-bound for alt-friendly use. Guild Wars 2, even with the addition of raids and high-level fractals, is still very casual friendly compared to most MMO’s out there.

Listen, buddy. They’re not going to stop raids and its likewise hardcore content unless they lose their hardcore playerbase. I’m somewhat surprised the hardcore playerbase in GW2 is flourishing, considering how little hardcore content there was to begin with these 3 years.

One of the main complaints is that GW2 wasn’t challenging enough and that there was no endgame progression. You can still do raids with full exotic gear, in fact the guild KING did it here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSgj8Vqnlgc). This shows that skill and team coordination is more important than gear, and that ascended gear is currently overestimated with its value. (of course, the future raids might actually require ascended gear, who knows).

Endgame progression doesn’t give you any significant statistical advantage, just because it’s there doesn’t mean you have to go do it. I mean seriously, have you tried going for the Yakslapper title? I think not.

Harper.4173:

We’ve had 3 years of casual things – why not 3 years of hardcore things?
Why is it that casuals feel entitled to the game?

Because that’s how we were enticed to buy it.

And, even HoT, the only reason I bought it was because they fooled me into thinking “challenging” did not mean “extremely difficult”.

No one fooled you … you just made assumptions that you were a better player than you thought you were. I’m not a pro PVE player but I’ve adapted and learned how to get around, solo even. ‘extremely difficult’ … I don’t think that describes the level of difficulty that most players experience in HoT. It’s semantics anyways. Even if it is hard for you, there are ways around than in an MMO that you shouldn’t have to dig to deep into your MMO trick bag to get at. Sounds like ignoring your reality is your only problem.

Obtena.7952:

I think your objections don’t make sense because Anet warned people HoT would be more challenging. I won’t debate with you if it’s overly hard or if getting level 2 masteries are a ‘grind’, but you absolutely can’t complain that you got HoT, and then were surprised that ‘hard’ content prevented you from doing what you assumed you would be able to. Anet put up the red flags; you ignored them.

False. They made accommodating changes to LS2 in response to forum posts threatening to bolt if the content was too hard. I bought HoT preorder because of those changes and what appeared to be a conciliatory attitude towards their core players (non-hardcore).

AFTER they made the changes and got me to preorder HoT, THEN they started announcing more details. But, even those details did not hint that the content would be extremely difficult, time- and XP-gated, and that they would simultaneously nerf rewards in the rest of Tyria in an attempt to force people into HoT maps.

In other words, they were dishonest.

The adjustments they made in LS2 are not relevant; they did not advertise LS2 would be challenging content.

I don’t see what is ‘false’; you bought HoT, Anet said it would be hard from the beginning, it’s hard for you … there isn’t anything subtle here or some trickery. You’re just not willing to accept that it’s not Anet’s fault you can’t accomplish what you feel you should be able to when other people don’t have the same issues you do. That’s not a very mature approach to your issue. Neither is implying you were coerced to preorder; you preordered before you had enough information. You’re not exploring your options to complete the content. You’re not taking responsibility for purchasing too early.

As far as difficulty is concerned and generally speaking over the whole MMO genre, HoT is still quite average. Calling it extremely difficult demonstrates a lack of experience. Being sensational does not make your case anymore compelling.

Daddicus.6128:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Years of disdain in the many “face-roll easy” posts about the game had to sting.

So, they should listen to the couple dozen loud voices and ignore millions of their other players?

I’m aware that a sizable demographic finds HoT to be more than they wanted difficulty-wise. I wasn’t aware that this demographic consisted of millions, nor that the sum total of those who said the game was too easy consisted only of dozens. Do you have any references to back those assertions? I can’t seem to find any.

All that said, HoT difficulty was a risk. People who liked the challenge level of vanilla probably bought it without considering what “more challenging mobs” might mean. Because of that, I suspect the impact on revenue will not be as significant as it could have been. In fact, it remains to be seen what impact, if any, there will be on game revenues or on ANet’s precious metrics.

None of that has any meaning though, when looking at the reactions of game development professionals who are also gamers might have when a major critical reaction from fans and reviewers is that the game was laughably easy. How would you react if your brainchild was panned in such fashion? I know how most people would react.

Seriously there is no winning in these situations and it should just die, if its made casual people will call it boring yet if its made hardcore people moan and complain about it

Obtena.7952:

I think your objections don’t make sense because Anet warned people HoT would be more challenging. I won’t debate with you if it’s overly hard or if getting level 2 masteries are a ‘grind’, but you absolutely can’t complain that you got HoT, and then were surprised that ‘hard’ content prevented you from doing what you assumed you would be able to. Anet put up the red flags; you ignored them.

The flags weren’t red. They were more like grey. There was so much vagueness as to what the term was actually referring to (and some things weren’t announced beforehand, anyway) that even cautious people were having a hard time knowing if it would drastically alter their playstyle.

Harper.4173:

We’ve had 3 years of casual things – why not 3 years of hardcore things?
Why is it that casuals feel entitled to the game?

Say hello to Wildstar territory then.

morrolan.9608:

Harper.4173:

We’ve had 3 years of casual things – why not 3 years of hardcore things?
Why is it that casuals feel entitled to the game?

Say hello to Wildstar territory then.

Even reddit sub numbers have been dropping all day, just sayin.

Daddicus.6128:

Ayrilana.1396:

That would be rewards and not content.

Sorry, but I play for rewards. Content is simply a way to obtain rewards.

Ayrilana.1396:

The vast majority of rewards can be earned without needing other players.

Not in HoT. Non-meta rewards are basically junk. And the metas require committed players.

Ayrilana.1396:

What rewards are gated other than the Rev head piece and what involves DS.

They’re ALL gated! How far can you get without gliding? That is a gate! And every other reward after that gate cannot be obtained without crossing that gate. That’s 90% of just VB.

And it’s not the only gate.

Yep and in the core game the temples in Orr were gated by level. Hell you couldn’t even get your guaranteed rare till level 40. You had to level 40 whole levels before you could get a guaranteed rare.

This game has ALWAYS had gates. They were less hard and fast, but they were always there.

Saying HoT is gated, implies gates didn’t exist before. But they did.

Sykper.6583:

Couple dozen- Where have you been? Since a little after launch the playerbase that wanted harder challenges grew quite a bit, which prompted the launches of such things like Marionette, Revamped Tequatl and Triple Trouble. Yet we still heard thread after thread of criticisms about how easy the content was for years. Don’t pretend that it was just a minority, there was a massive amount of players that wanted GW2 to push the difficulty higher in its content.

I don’t think most who asked for that envisioned centering most new content around increased difficulty though, which is one of the major complaints surrounding HoT.

I’m sure there were loads who asked for stuff along the lines of Teq, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they wanted the whole game to be Teq.

It’s also rather messy (and I say this both to you and anyone who does it on the other end) to throw numbers around like “minority,” “massive,” “majority.” It’s all BS. Even my use of “loads” is kind of silly.

None of us really know what the numbers are like. Even Anet, who no doubt tries to watch metrics, probably doesn’t have the greatest clarity in what the spread is like. Any group can seem loud when it isn’t getting what it wants and other groups are – the contrast creates the illusion of size, due to the disparity in how many from different groups are speaking up.

I would say the few clear instances of agreement have come in the form of mega threads that go on and on and on, such as the one about traits back when they were in need of a revamp. Beyond that, it’s mostly blips of complaining and for us (especially since we’re usually biased to one side) it’s all but impossible to gauge just how many are speaking up. Even account numbers can be skewed because of the possibility of posts from multiple accounts by the same person – Anet can check that sort of thing, but we can’t.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

this isnt WoW

WoW is actually more casual-friendly than GW2, now.

Problem is, it’s now only very casual-friendly, or very hardcore-friendly and nothing in between…

MCHarris.5648:

Seriously there is no winning in these situations and it should just die, if its made casual people will call it boring yet if its made hardcore people moan and complain about it

There is.

It’s called a balance, or a mixture, of both.

Not all casual, but not all hardcore and ideally, quite a lot in between the two, too.

As a lot of players are neither fully casual, or fully hardcore, but a bit of both.

Obtena.7952:

No one fooled you … you just made assumptions that you were a better player than you thought you were.

Wow.

I don’t think it’s him making the assumptions, around here…

Draknar.5748:

Things that people claimed weren’t casual friendly pre-HoT:

Fractals (3 mini dungeons plus a boss?! I don’t have time for that I play 20min a day, I’m casual!)
Dungeons (I can’t get into a group because I don’t have zerk gear and I don’t speedrun! I’m casual!)
World completion (why do we have to do WvW for world completion, I’m casual, I don’t like PvP!)
Story-mode finale (I need a group to finish the story?! what the heck Anet! I’m too casual for that!)
Living Story S1 (these LS events are timed?! You’re saying I can’t do all of the achievements within the 2 weeks if I only play 10min a day?! I’m casual, wtf ANET!
Living Story S2 (wtf Anet, I didn’t log in when these were released because I’m super casual, and now you want me to grind gold so I can trade for gems? I’m casual! I don’t have the time nor money to do this!)
Dailies (Whoa, Anet, look at how long it’s taking to do these dailies! And I have to do it to get laurels?! I’m only on for 2min a day! I can’t possibly get all of this AP that you are forcing me to get! Make it casual friendly!)

I think a lot of people think that casual friendly means everything needs to be able to be completed quickly or easily. A casual player does not imply a bad player, it implies someone that plays at their own, typically slow, pace. Being able to do things at your own pace: that’s the definition of being casual friendly.

In GW2 you can do literally everything at your own pace (minus holiday events, as those are time limited). That is casual friendly. Raids is the only area that I would say has the biggest obstacle to casual players, and that’s getting a 10man group together.

I’d love to hear what exactly in GW2 you couldn’t do at your own, casual, pace.

If something takes a long time, it doesn’t mean it isn’t casual friendly, it just means it will take longer to complete, but it can still be 100% casual.

People claimed crafting legendaries wasn’t casual, but I can assure you I crafted two from scratch, casually, over the course of 2 years. Some days I felt like working towards a requirement, some days I didn’t. I dictated the pace I completed things. THAT IS CASUAL.

No, that is just what “casual” means to you.

To someone else, it might mean only enjoying quite straightforward, uncomplicated and/or easy to understand things, that don’t require a lot of (or any) research to complete.

To someone else again, it might mean nothing too challenging, in terms of (physical) gameplay.

To someone else again, it might mean no group content, or only queueable group content.

To someone else again, it could mean nothing that takes too long, in a single chunk of time.

Or any combination of the above (and probably quite a few more…).

…and then, you have to take into account other likes and dislikes someone might have.

Like only liking PVP, or hating PVP.

Or liking, or disliking, dailies.

Or only liking instances, or only liking openworld.

So, it’s really not that simple.

Nowhere was this game marketed as being for-casuals, nor was its aim to create “relaxing” content, nor did it ever say that no content would be tedious, and by extent they did not lie about any of these things.
OP, you are doing little more then imprinting your own views and desires onto the game. This is nothing but a deranged selfish cry asking for the game to uniquely cater to you.

The things that made GW2 unique and special are still present. Most of your claims are outright unsupported or significantly subjective. And it’s not wrong for the game to try to please more people by being multifaceted and have depth.
Sorry, but Anet didn’t make this game for the unique pleasure and experiences of CaptainVanguard.

Arewn.2368:

Nowhere was this game marketed as being for-casuals

It was, actually.

GW2 being anti-grind was a recurring theme in their advertising, and e.g. the manifesto video.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Arewn.2368:

Nowhere was this game marketed as being for-casuals

It was, actually.

Yeah, I heard it was, as well.

I don’t carry around a cache of GW2 quotes, but I’m sure I’ve seen at least a couple, with words to that effect.

…but, even if it hadn’t been, when you set the scene with one thing and a establish a playerbase who like that, any dramatic changes will inevitably cause issues.

Especially as it tends to be the casuals who fund the hardcores.

How can you possibly expect them to do that, now?

WoW went through all this years ago and it was the reason for things like LFD and then LFR.

But, even then, some of these hardcore players will still complain.

As they only want stuff for themselves, while the majority pay for it.

All I can assume is lot of them are still kids, or not that much more than kids and they’re used to their parents buying them stuff.

But, maybe their own parents have had enough of that? ;D

So, they just treat the other, more casual players, like they would their own parents.

They need money from them, but they don’t want to spend time around them.

They, also, often have other demands – like, full-on, succeed or die, capitalism in a game that is, effectively, funded via socialism!

The irony is lost on them…

Again, because they’re probably, mainly, so young.

It’s really unfair and quite frankly, I’m surprised people, who don’t do/enjoy any of the harder stuff put up with it.

They’re not their kids, afterall.

They, or their own parents, should pay for the game.

Or they should have to tolerate the needs/preferences (and just general presence) of the other players, who do pay.

Here’s a box image for the pre-order….

Can anyone show me where on the official preorder box where it says or advertises casual?

Or do you guys mean that you were duped by a streamer or your best friend because THEY said it was for casuals?

Daddicus.6128:

Ashen.2907:

I have never seen a statement or advertisement from Anet claimig that gw2 was intended solely for casual play/players.

Not “solely”. Primarily.

So, do you have a link to an Anet advertisement or statement that GW2 was intended primarily for casual play/players?

Wolfey.3407:

Here’s a box image for the pre-order….

Can anyone show me where on the official preorder box where it says or advertises casual?

Or do you guys mean that you were duped by a streamer or your best friend because THEY said it was for casuals?

It does say Play the way you want. That can be interpreted as meaning almost anything. However, if someone takes that literally, then they fell victim to the runaway hype train. This out-of-control rail line has claimed many victims, not just in this game. One might think people would learn to take everything with a grain of salt — although, now, that no longer means what it once did.

/c

Celtic Lady.3729:

Arewn.2368:

Nowhere was this game marketed as being for-casuals

It was, actually.

Link?

Pics?

I believe given the standard of casual play over the last two or three years in the core game was its own advertisement. More to the point, you could pretty much solo everything up until Arah and Zhaitan.

Honestly, I think that was the first and only time I grouped that first year: when you had to fight through the original instance.

And they nerfed that too. And the champions in all the starter areas. And the more dangerous mobs there. And underwater combat because it was ‘hard’. And the way we could pick and choose traits early on because casuals couldn’t figure it out.

Seeing a trend yet?

Experience showed us that Guild Wars 2 was very casual. You don’t need to read it on the box when you’ve seen it in the game itself.

No thanks.

Speaking as a 3 year veteran, I like the direction the game is going.

There was a time GW2 was Casual Friendly, and it still is.

I don’t see how having a little bit of hard core content = casual unfriendly.

runeblade.7514:

There was a time GW2 was Casual Friendly, and it still is.

I don’t see how having a little bit of hard core content = casual unfriendly.

When that “little bit of hardcore content” gives exclusive things, stop being casual firendly. Only elite and hardocre players will have those items.

I honestly hope that HoT have bad sells, so they rethink about that dilema between casuals and hardcores, and they have to took a side and make a game in future iterationts either for casuals or for hardcores, so we all (casuals and hardcores) can move on to the kind of games we like, or stay.

We’ll know on January/February when sells from 4Q will be public.

Labjax.2465:

Sykper.6583:

Couple dozen- Where have you been? Since a little after launch the playerbase that wanted harder challenges grew quite a bit, which prompted the launches of such things like Marionette, Revamped Tequatl and Triple Trouble. Yet we still heard thread after thread of criticisms about how easy the content was for years. Don’t pretend that it was just a minority, there was a massive amount of players that wanted GW2 to push the difficulty higher in its content.

I don’t think most who asked for that envisioned centering most new content around increased difficulty though, which is one of the major complaints surrounding HoT.

I’m sure there were loads who asked for stuff along the lines of Teq, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they wanted the whole game to be Teq.

It’s also rather messy (and I say this both to you and anyone who does it on the other end) to throw numbers around like “minority,” “massive,” “majority.” It’s all BS. Even my use of “loads” is kind of silly.

None of us really know what the numbers are like. Even Anet, who no doubt tries to watch metrics, probably doesn’t have the greatest clarity in what the spread is like. Any group can seem loud when it isn’t getting what it wants and other groups are – the contrast creates the illusion of size, due to the disparity in how many from different groups are speaking up.

I would say the few clear instances of agreement have come in the form of mega threads that go on and on and on, such as the one about traits back when they were in need of a revamp. Beyond that, it’s mostly blips of complaining and for us (especially since we’re usually biased to one side) it’s all but impossible to gauge just how many are speaking up. Even account numbers can be skewed because of the possibility of posts from multiple accounts by the same person – Anet can check that sort of thing, but we can’t.

I agree that no one here can claim the actual numbers, I did not want to play the ‘massive number’ card without any specific proof if I wasn’t sure.

But just as we had, as you said, the consistently popping up threads about the GW2 challenge as a whole, we had dedicated ’CDI’s for suggestions like Raiding, Fractals, Guild Halls, etc. These massive megathreads took feedback that varied heavily, from dozens if not hundreds of forum accounts putting their perspective on how to improve the progression in those fields. Even going off Guild Halls, Raiding and Fractals, there were subtle indicators that the systems at the time needed to improve, and Raiding itself was overwhelmingly requested to be much more difficult.

We can play the argument back and forth on what the forum posters mean as a sample size of the population, but you and I both know how dedicated posters are to the game, considering most of their suggestions as healthy improvements in the long run. Guild Leaders, Important individuals in various communities, friends, etc all spoke out for all these changes we have seen now.

And truthfully, although I stand on the side of this kind of difficult content, I still want easier content to be the majority. It is a good thing we have a focus on where to put the ‘End-Game’ for GW2 now, should ANYONE go for it.

Daddicus.6128:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Years of disdain in the many “face-roll easy” posts about the game had to sting.

So, they should listen to the couple dozen loud voices and ignore millions of their other players?

Except you don’t know what “millions of other players” want because they didn’t post. You only think you know what they want based on what you want.

If millions of players had been so upset that things had changed we might have seen millions of posts.