Guild Wars 2

i play gw2 for fun. i enjoyed gw2 so far becasue you could play as you like.
the build you like and its gameplay with the class you like. you could do the dungeon you like, farming the way you like (before HOT 5 major ways of earning gold via farming). the pvp you like (spvp or WvW) the pve you like (events, living events, dungeons, fractals, world boss, tquatl,…), the skin you like, the minipet you like, the juping puzzle you like(as there is alot of them and they are very different.) etc…
with HOT you can’t have the gear you like becasue some of them are behind a huge grind fest in hot maps to acquire them. you can’t have the guild hall you like because of the huge grind wall behind scribe (it cost too much to have just one chair ;-;). tou can’t pvp how you like because the meta is overpowered leaving none hot character or none meta builds weak. you can’t roam/play with a small groupe in wvw becasue everything encourage server mono blob (more than before). you can’t even do the massive event you like on HOT maps because of event crash.(events you will farm becasue its the only thing to do when you finished the maps which kills the actuall event and leave a bad taste)(last time i wanted to do the morremoth meta event we successfully reached the final door, the timer went on. at the end of the timer the event just stopped…). the nerf on the dungeons prevent us from doing them. (we already know them. but why would we run them if collecting mindlessly chests in a desert is far far more profitable…? whats the point of doing raids (okay the first times you do it for fun or for the challenge) if its only to grind some legendary armor?). why so much grind to get the new items from gw2 events? (bat shoulders, etc…).

another problem is the lack of content. i want to have fun but all the new things are just broken or behind a grind wall.
tho +1 for being able to glide in tyria thats a very cool addition. why not gliding in WvW too? even if its only in the eotm. its a waiting queue/farming map anyway.
why can’t we have fun with a structured gvg? 1v1 arena? 3v3? 20v20 with a little piece of WvW map? mobs fighting event? some pvp (in the way you like) in pve maps? (plus1 for the hunger game gamemod). roleplay content?(sitting on chairs or special tonics to do spécial animations or create useless items for rp.( like an endless crate maker) (the dancing tome was a great idea but was really too poor in dance animations content(why not giving us the dance animations from gw1?)) plus1 to the ingame instruments). why not some specific pvp event like two airships raiding each other with each team on each airships? why not some special event where some players are the pve other players need to beat?( let me dream ;-; ) some special mobs to hunt in the whole pve, hard to find and always escaping players? (plus1 to all the event you have already created that are not available anymore, aka SAB, knightmare tower, scarlet dungeons, etc…) better world boss? (i know you reworked the shattererand the shadow behemoth but i dream that one day the fire elemental will come back to what it was.). reactive pve fight were the mob could enter a state of rage where all his actions and animation would be faster with little to no dead time between its skills to feel you are actually fighting a monster as reactive as a player. (aka TERA).

i’ll always remember the answer from anet to a guy wanting duels in the pve world.
roughly speaking the answer was that gw2 is a game for teamplay and good social interaction where duels would lead only into competitivity and rivalry. maybe that was anet’s spirit back then. it really changed.

maddoctor.2738:

A game trying to get players out of what they are already doing and presenting the players with new and unique challenges is a good game, not a bad one. A game that keeps players inside their comfort zone all the time and never tries something new is a boring/stale game.

It’s not an either/or proposition. Adding some challenges is fine, but there’s nothing stopping you from adding some “comfort” for the people who just want that and who have come to expect it of this game.

HoT is just too sparse on content to offer a variety of it, which is a problem in and of itself.

maddoctor.2738:

Torolan.5816:

Where I disagree is with the idea that there is nothing wrong with a game taking people out of their comfort zone. I think there is plenty of wrong with that idea.
If I can´t have a comfort zone in a game, where then?

It depends on how low that “comfort zone” is. Remember that the game needs to appeal to all kinds of people, while also staying in the open world. I don’t want an instanced based game with the entire community hidden inside instances, because they can have varied difficulty levels. I want a game with meta events where everyone can join up, a game based on cooperation without strict requirements for parties and builds.

And you are really wrong about the comfort zone. A game trying to get players out of what they are already doing and presenting the players with new and unique challenges is a good game, not a bad one. A game that keeps players inside their comfort zone all the time and never tries something new is a boring/stale game. Even a game like Solitaire or Minesweeper (really really casual games) changed over the years and the latest Windows versions have challenges for different types of players.

That’s not a bad thing despite how you try to make it.

I don´t want to advocate facepalm easy design as presently Orr is. I won´t argue against someone who says that a mob of the quality of a karka veteran is fine. Most HoT mobs are fun to play against.
Toxic alliance events were perfectly fine for my personal comfort zone.

Compared to ls2 or HoT, none of these events where the mobs appeared were massively game changing. Alliances among monsters are a brilliant idea to be honest, to bad that this idea was so quickly abandoned.

HoT breaks the borders of my personal comfort zone because it adds too much stuff I dislike or perceive as filler material and gates if you want to achieve HP and MP within it. Scratch adventures for example, my fun in HoT would be doubled instantly. I don´t want to play an arcade game within my MMO. I would not want to RPG in my shooter either. for me, my mind sweeper game has been crossbred with super mario bros. How can that be funny or reasonable?

Some adventures are just to hard. U need Gold to max out Masterys. But to be honest i dont want to play over and over a race or shooter or whatever to be able to get max masterys. 30 points are hidden in touse things.

Plz change thats this is unresnable. Move thouse mastery points to normal achievments.

I tried this game, saw the fun exploration and adventures I could do (alone or with a group of ppl on bosses if I wanted to). So, I start buying gems, mining tools, other stuff, etc. In short: I tend to spend quite some money on this game, but now since HoT it is less casual friendly and hence, I have recently decided to stop buying stuff unless the game becomes more casual friendly and less arcade like (sub games). In the end the real question for Anet is: who puts the most money in their game? Hardcore players? Casual ones? What is the right mix? Can they satisfy both?

CaptainVanguard.4925:

It also promised that absoleutley no content in the game would be a tedious chore.

It lied.

GW2, What ever you promised to be, you need to keep it, screw this “1%” minority that are into e-sports, and raiding 24/7 this isnt WoW just abbandon that entirley and focus on the people that “do” care about the game, and “do” care about it surviving longer than 3 months.

Can we please, PLEASE go back to what MADE GW2 special in the first place.

Going forward, GW2 needs to abbandon this “challenging group content” kitten and “e-sport pvp ladder” system and just focus on what MADE GW2 special.

Its a game, people can play at their own leisure for fun, with nothing overly complicated about that at all.

Season 2 did this ALOT better than HoT did.

Going into Season 3 and future expansions, I would seriously hope A-net goes BACK to what made the games CORE gameplay special.

I want a game that isnt just another WoW clone, dont become another wow clone, A-net.

So must to agree with in this post, I think it is time to realize that since Anet acquired GW2 from NCsoft the focus has been more towards the top 10% players, leaving a 90% player base saying “what the hell! I want my game back!!” There was a moment when I was very excited about HOT, and then it turned very very tedious and monotonous.

The content that exists need a complete power balancing, and OP enemies of Maguma need to get nerfed, not the PVE player base. The worst part is the PVP player base was why they Nerfed the builds again, and they completely killed the playability of the Revenant and severely hurt the Chronomancer as a result, not because they were too much PVE-wise, because they were too much PVP-wise. This was an foolish tactic, if you want to cotton on to the PVP players based separate the skills and skill abilities from PVE to PVP. I agree that sometimes what makes a PVE build perfect, would indeed make a PVP build OP. Still, when you are fighting 10 to fifteen overpowered enemies in PVE you need more power unlike PVP, were is is 1v1 or 1v2.

Another point of contention is the grinding of materials, Mastery points, Hero points, sepcialization advancement, and other tedium. I actually feel as though the dev’s were trying to make up for the less grand from the first three years to be more grind now. It is sad, and I know a lot of players who are not longer going to even be around for when season three drops later this year. They have become so disenchanted with GW@ because of what they did with HOT that they no longer wish to play. That number is growing daily so Anet should start attending to this issue faster. Stop worrying about E-sports and Elite 1% players and remember it was the Casual life blooders who made this game great. When most were talking about the “friendliest player-base” they were talking about the causal players of the first three years not these fools who make up of 1%.

Get your heads together Anet and stop this now or just retire the game after HOT because if things keep going the way they are you are not going to have a player base worth putting a Game out for.

Wraith.3504:

Another point of contention is the grinding of materials, Mastery points, Hero points, sepcialization advancement, and other tedium.

You literally cannot grind the bolded things as you can only get them once… Where did you learn to use the word “grind?”

Wraith.3504:

CaptainVanguard.4925:

It also promised that absoleutley no content in the game would be a tedious chore.

It lied.

GW2, What ever you promised to be, you need to keep it, screw this “1%” minority that are into e-sports, and raiding 24/7 this isnt WoW just abbandon that entirley and focus on the people that “do” care about the game, and “do” care about it surviving longer than 3 months.

Can we please, PLEASE go back to what MADE GW2 special in the first place.

Going forward, GW2 needs to abbandon this “challenging group content” kitten and “e-sport pvp ladder” system and just focus on what MADE GW2 special.

Its a game, people can play at their own leisure for fun, with nothing overly complicated about that at all.

Season 2 did this ALOT better than HoT did.

Going into Season 3 and future expansions, I would seriously hope A-net goes BACK to what made the games CORE gameplay special.

I want a game that isnt just another WoW clone, dont become another wow clone, A-net.

So must to agree with in this post, I think it is time to realize that since Anet acquired GW2 from NCsoft the focus has been more towards the top 10% players, leaving a 90% player base saying “what the hell! I want my game back!!” There was a moment when I was very excited about HOT, and then it turned very very tedious and monotonous.

The content that exists need a complete power balancing, and OP enemies of Maguma need to get nerfed, not the PVE player base. The worst part is the PVP player base was why they Nerfed the builds again, and they completely killed the playability of the Revenant and severely hurt the Chronomancer as a result, not because they were too much PVE-wise, because they were too much PVP-wise. This was an foolish tactic, if you want to cotton on to the PVP players based separate the skills and skill abilities from PVE to PVP. I agree that sometimes what makes a PVE build perfect, would indeed make a PVP build OP. Still, when you are fighting 10 to fifteen overpowered enemies in PVE you need more power unlike PVP, were is is 1v1 or 1v2.

Another point of contention is the grinding of materials, Mastery points, Hero points, sepcialization advancement, and other tedium. I actually feel as though the dev’s were trying to make up for the less grand from the first three years to be more grind now. It is sad, and I know a lot of players who are not longer going to even be around for when season three drops later this year. They have become so disenchanted with GW@ because of what they did with HOT that they no longer wish to play. That number is growing daily so Anet should start attending to this issue faster. Stop worrying about E-sports and Elite 1% players and remember it was the Casual life blooders who made this game great. When most were talking about the “friendliest player-base” they were talking about the causal players of the first three years not these fools who make up of 1%.

Get your heads together Anet and stop this now or just retire the game after HOT because if things keep going the way they are you are not going to have a player base worth putting a Game out for.

There’s a lot wrong with your post. First of all Anet did not acquire Guild Wars 2 from NCsoft. Changes were made in the structure of the company for legal reasons. The existing company structure remains. NcSoft owns Anet and therefore owns Guild Wars 2. This acquisition you speak of was recent. The content you’re talking about was in planning for well over a year before that.

Secondly you’re agreeing with a post that states that Anet said no content in this game would be a tedious chore. I’d like a quote provided, because I’m 99.9% sure that was never said. It doesn’t even make sense. Crafting is a mindless chore to some people, running dungeons is a mindless chore to others. So this isn’t even something that makes sense.

You’re also pulling numbers out of thin air. I think it’s very unlikely that only the top 10% of players have benefited from Heart of Thorns. As an example, Fractals were made far far easier than then used to be, and the top 10% is complaining about that.

I think it’s closer to the bottom 10 or 15% feel disenfranchised, because they are the bottom 10-15% and any reasaonble degree of difficulty makes them feel the game is no longer for them. That doesn’t mean more than half the player base isn’t good enough to play HoT or doesn’t enjoy it.

Have your own opinions by all means, but stop trying to quote percentages. And if you’re going to agree with quotes, and quote them, you should probably make sure they don’t have factual errors.

It only weakens your argument.

What is considered “grinding” in GW2?

It’s surprising to me that the same people are bouncing all over this forum trying to convince people they’re wrong about not liking this $50 lemon.

I just decided to spend my money elsewhere. Funneling everyone into two-hour metas and raids is just a way to avoid making new content. Blizzard did the same thing with their last expansion and lost most of their customers. (And that’s hard numbers you can look up yourself.)

GreyWolf.8670:

It’s surprising to me that the same people are bouncing all over this forum trying to convince people they’re wrong about not liking this $50 lemon.

I just decided to spend my money elsewhere. Funneling everyone into two-hour metas and raids is just a way to avoid making new content. Blizzard did the same thing with their last expansion and lost most of their customers. (And that’s hard numbers you can look up yourself.)

Interesting conclusions to draw. Because the people I talk to give a completely different reason why WoW is losing players, mostly having to do with stuff like garrisons, not raiding or hard core content.

There are probably 100 posts on this forum people by people don’t like the expansion. There’s probably 20 posts by people who do. I can list people who say they don’t like the expansion over and over in every thread.

If you go back a year, two, three, you’ll see the same ratio. Why are you surprised.

Because now YOU don’t like something suddenly its’ a different situation. The situation on this forum is relatively stable over time.

Vayne.8563:

You’re also pulling numbers out of thin air. I think it’s very unlikely that only the top 10% of players have benefited from Heart of Thorns. As an example, Fractals were made far far easier than then used to be, and the top 10% is complaining about that.

I think it’s closer to the bottom 10 or 15% feel disenfranchised, because they are the bottom 10-15% and any reasaonble degree of difficulty makes them feel the game is no longer for them. That doesn’t mean more than half the player base isn’t good enough to play HoT or doesn’t enjoy it.

Have your own opinions by all means, but stop trying to quote percentages. And if you’re going to agree with quotes, and quote them, you should probably make sure they don’t have factual errors.

It only weakens your argument.

You just criticized him for posting unsubstantiated percentages and then immediately did the same thing yourself. And then you make a conclusion based on your made up numbers. How can we believe your arguments, if you won’t follow the same rules that you hold others too?

Vayne.8563:

There are probably 100 posts on this forum people by people don’t like the expansion. There’s probably 20 posts by people who do. I can list people who say they don’t like the expansion over and over in every thread.

Where are you getting this from? Just looking at this thread, I’m not seeing what you are saying here. Do you have any data to support this?

Coulter.2315:

Wraith.3504:

Another point of contention is the grinding of materials, Mastery points, Hero points, sepcialization advancement, and other tedium.

You literally cannot grind the bolded things as you can only get them once… Where did you learn to use the word “grind?”

It gets worse when you realize that Hero Points and Specialization Advancement are the same thing. Unless he is referring to the Specialization collection for the unique piece of equipment, something that has been actually liked by many players for not being a ‘grind’ so to speak like earning ‘Golden Child’ Achievement or matters of that consequence.

The elaboration of the word ‘Grind’ for GW2 is almost comedic at this point. Any of the mandatory grinds in GW2, including ascended which carry on from now till the end of the game in general, pale in comparison to Grinds in any of the mandatory grinds in other MMOs which continue to grow as the gear increases in power. As long as Arenanet keeps their word that Ascended/Legendary will be the highest tier level, the grinding you will have to do at a mandatory level will remain stagnant while every other MMO that doesn’t follow the same process keeps increasing over weeks and months.

Seriously, I don’t mind if you hate how much of a “grind” GW2 has become, but even by relative standards it is still all a walk in the park. In fact, I encourage opponents to actually uninstall GW2, go play something else for months, realize how superior GW2 does even the smallest of things, and you will be back and will not miss out on much since your gear level never changes.

That’s how Casual-Friendly GW2 still is.

Coulter.2315:

Wraith.3504:

Another point of contention is the grinding of materials, Mastery points, Hero points, sepcialization advancement, and other tedium.

You literally cannot grind the bolded things as you can only get them once… Where did you learn to use the word “grind?”

There are dozens of MPs and HPs. And since the process of attaining them can be considered repetitive, they indeed meet the definition of grinding.

I agree, though, with the poster above that HPs and specs are the same thing.

Daddicus.6128:

Coulter.2315:

Wraith.3504:

Another point of contention is the grinding of materials, Mastery points, Hero points, sepcialization advancement, and other tedium.

You literally cannot grind the bolded things as you can only get them once… Where did you learn to use the word “grind?”

There are dozens of MPs and HPs. And since the process of attaining them can be considered repetitive, they indeed meet the definition of grinding.

I agree, though, with the poster above that HPs and specs are the same thing.

Then the game was always grindy because there are 189 hero points in the core game, and just about all of them the vast majority are either communes or fighting a boss.

Doing a hero point challenge with one boss and a different hero point challenge with a different boss is a completely different experience and cant’ be considered grinding, unless you’re completely ignoring their mechanics.

^^ or willing to look sensational to think it proves a point. Based on his definition, there isn’t a single MMO that isn’t grindy; every MMO that exists has an element in it that has repeatable content. So my conclusion based on that ridiculous definition; players QQing about grindy should simply stop playing MMO’s altogether.

There is one thing in HoT that I definitely consider grind and I find it absolutely repulsive.

Every time you want something from the merchant at the end of Dragon’s Stand area, you have to work through the entire meta event again. It does not come as a surprise to me that people AFK their way through it. Spending hours just to access a kitten-forsaken merchant for crying out loud.

If you think HoT is grindy then none of you have played a Korean mmo

Sird.4536:

If you think HoT is grindy then none of you have played a Korean mmo

Some other games having it worse does not mean it’s not bad here.

Not some, most if not all, and certainly less than all the other AAA mmorpg by some way by the nature of the power cap.

Astralporing.1957:

Sird.4536:

If you think HoT is grindy then none of you have played a Korean mmo

Some other games having it worse does not mean it’s not bad here.

Bad is relative you need something to compare to. And I wouldn’t say some is the right word, maybe most is more accurate. And I say “most” because there might be one MMORPG out there that is less grindy than GW2 but at least I haven’t played it yet. I think I’ve played most of them, the big ones at least.

You only need to compare it to GW pre-HoT, not to anything else. I really don’t give a rodent’s rectum about the state of games I’ve never played.

I think players just forgot how GW2 was pre-HoT. For example I read a lot of complaints about Mastery points and how they are “grindy”.

First complaint: HoT story is gated behind mastery points. GW2 pre-HoT story was gated behind levels. And you need a LOT of experience points to progress your story. New characters can level up with tomes, but masteries are Account Bound. I don’t see how HoT story is more grindy than GW2 Personal Story.

Second complaint: You can’t reach places in HoT without first leveling masteries. In GW2 pre-HoT you can’t reach places if you are low level… same thing as the above really. I remember when players went to Frostgorge from Wayfarer’s and saw the high level mobs after they added the “guide”. Fun times.

Is the mastery system really a grind? Then the entire 1-80 leveling process of GW2 is a much worse grind. I’m sure after a couple of years players “forgot” how leveling works in the game, using their tomes, but if you think about it the Mastery system is not “grindy” compared to the regular leveling process.

maddoctor.2738:

I think players just forgot how GW2 was pre-HoT. For example I read a lot of complaints about Mastery points and how they are “grindy”.

First complaint: HoT story is gated behind mastery points. GW2 pre-HoT story was gated behind levels. And you need a LOT of experience points to progress your story. New characters can level up with tomes, but masteries are Account Bound. I don’t see how HoT story is more grindy than GW2 Personal Story.

Second complaint: You can’t reach places in HoT without first leveling masteries. In GW2 pre-HoT you can’t reach places if you are low level… same thing as the above really. I remember when players went to Frostgorge from Wayfarer’s and saw the high level mobs after they added the “guide”. Fun times.

Is the mastery system really a grind? Then the entire 1-80 leveling process of GW2 is a much worse grind. I’m sure after a couple of years players “forgot” how leveling works in the game, using their tomes, but if you think about it the Mastery system is not “grindy” compared to the regular leveling process.

Not to mention I’m sure a lot of people don’t use boosters, food, utlities and the stuff to allow them to level that stuff faster. The early stuff, the stuff you really need, is probably a few hours of play just playing, that’s my guess anyway.

Nice try you two. Leveling your character up is like THE most natural thing in any RPG. Trying to paint it as black as the HoT progression grind is not gonna fly.

pepsis.5384:

Nice try you two. Leveling your character up is like THE most natural thing in any RPG. Trying to paint it as black as the HoT progression grind is not gonna fly.

If we two were the only way saying it, you might be right. But you saying something is not so, doesn’t make it not so.

Go into any thread where someone calls it a grind, and count the number of individual posters who think it is, and who think it isn’t. I’m pretty sure it’ll be a closer count than you think.

pepsis.5384:

Nice try you two. Leveling your character up is like THE most natural thing in any RPG. Trying to paint it as black as the HoT progression grind is not gonna fly.

And how exactly is the mastery leveling a grind compared to leveling up from 1-80?

maddoctor.2738:

pepsis.5384:

Nice try you two. Leveling your character up is like THE most natural thing in any RPG. Trying to paint it as black as the HoT progression grind is not gonna fly.

And how exactly is the mastery leveling a grind compared to leveling up from 1-80?

The more characters you have the less of a grind it is. I have 30 80s. I only leveled my mastery once for all 30.

Collecting XP for HoT mastery is more grindy than collecting XP to get to 80. Simply because there’s nowhere near enough content to max masteries. I dare say there’s nowhere near half of what you need to max it, or even a third.

Whenever I played a character from 1 to 80 in central Tyria, I hit 80 a long, long time before I exhausted the content there. Levelling there is something that just happens while you’re still discovering the world. If you consider any part of that a grind, you’re ignoring huge parts of the game. And I can see why people want to rush to 80, sure. They want to use another class to take a crack at some level 80 content. ANet provided for that with plenty of consumables to get you there. People can say that getting to 80 is a grind. That doesn’t make it true. That’s like saying cable TV is boring, but never watching anything other than some education channel hidden in the high channel numbers.

Levelling HoT masteries however, takes an awful lot of repetition, and the only content that gives significant XP repeats itself in 2 hour cycles. But I’ve said enough about those.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Collecting XP for HoT mastery is more grindy than collecting XP to get to 80. Simply because there’s nowhere near enough content to max masteries. I dare say there’s nowhere near half of what you need to max it, or even a third.

Only in reality it’s not. Unless you say 1 level = 1 mastery or something like that. No matter how much content you have to get to 80 you WILL repeat it many times, especially with more characters, while with masteries you do it once and it’s over. Would it be better if you needed half the exp you need to level a mastery but make it character bound? I’d say it would cause an uproar. 1/4 of the experience? Still an uproar. Making them account bound was the right choice and it lessens the grind by a huge amount.

You can play in VB at least 5 times without doing the same thing following the 5 outpost chains, that will give you more than enough experience to complete any masteries needed in VB to progress further in the game (and then some). Just because you don’t have enough experience to progress in the maguuma if you blast through and ignore all content, doesn’t mean there is no content.

And really, Itzel Poison, Nuchoch Wallows and Basic Gliding are the only masteries that block your progress in some way. Anything else is an extra

Vayne.8563:

pepsis.5384:

Nice try you two. Leveling your character up is like THE most natural thing in any RPG. Trying to paint it as black as the HoT progression grind is not gonna fly.

If we two were the only way saying it, you might be right. But you saying something is not so, doesn’t make it not so.

Go into any thread where someone calls it a grind, and count the number of individual posters who think it is, and who think it isn’t. I’m pretty sure it’ll be a closer count than you think.

Honestly, the posters who say its fine might as well be more than those who complain. It doesnt really matter to me does it? Or to you too by the way. What matters to me is what I think, what I feel. And I dont feel good in the jungle nor am I having fun. I’ve had helpful guild members show me around but it doesnt work for me and thats that.

I dont even need to define exactly why that is – why waste my time and energy evaluating the expansion bit by bit. The fact there are quite a few vocal others who feel the same speaks for itself.

PS: The devil dude said it for me and I’d add that it just feels much more natural imo:

“Levelling there is something that just happens while you’re still discovering the world”

pepsis.5384:

Vayne.8563:

pepsis.5384:

Nice try you two. Leveling your character up is like THE most natural thing in any RPG. Trying to paint it as black as the HoT progression grind is not gonna fly.

If we two were the only way saying it, you might be right. But you saying something is not so, doesn’t make it not so.

Go into any thread where someone calls it a grind, and count the number of individual posters who think it is, and who think it isn’t. I’m pretty sure it’ll be a closer count than you think.

Honestly, the posters who say its fine might as well be more than those who complain. It doesnt really matter to me does it? Or to you too by the way. What matters to me is what I think, what I feel. And I dont feel good in the jungle nor am I having fun. I’ve had helpful guild members show me around but it doesnt work for me and thats that.

I dont even need to define exactly why that is – why waste my time and energy evaluating the expansion bit by bit. The fact there are quite a few vocal others who feel the same speaks for itself.

Well look at your language. You say nice try you to like we’re trying to pull the wool over someone’s eyes. Even your assumption that people in MMOs don’t find normal leveling a grind is flawed, since we’ve seen many posts were people think leveling in this game is a grind.

Where as I’m stating my opinion you’re trying to discredit it through use of language. I’m saying yes, you consider it a grind, and other people do not, where as some people considering leveling a grind and you do not.

pepsis.5384:

I dont even need to define exactly why that is – why waste my time and energy evaluating the expansion bit by bit. The fact there are quite a few vocal others who feel the same speaks for itself.

That’s one thing. Calling HoT masteries a grind, while it can easily be just like leveling is a different thing. The masteries give horizontal progression, aside from 3, they aren’t even blocking any kind of map/story progress. Where is the “grind” again?

pepsis.5384:

“Levelling there is something that just happens while you’re still discovering the world”

Of course when you discover than same poi or vista for the 5th (or 10th) time it’s such a natural feeling that you get while re-discovering the world. Natural leveling comes the first, and maybe the second time, a third if you stress it enough, from then on there isn’t much to discover anymore, you’ve already seen everything.

maddoctor.2738:

pepsis.5384:

“Levelling there is something that just happens while you’re still discovering the world”

Of course when you discover than same poi or vista for the 5th (or 10th) time it’s such a natural feeling that you get while re-discovering the world. Natural leveling comes the first, and maybe the second time, a third if you stress it enough, from then on there isn’t much to discover anymore, you’ve already seen everything.

Maybe Im just not as burned out as you people. Im currently leveling up my 4th alt, he is at lvl55 with no books used. I’m just moving around following the story, grabbing hearts and hero points along the way, collecting mats etc. Feels very natural and if the vista is boring you just skip it and still get credit for it. Veterans who played it all 50 times over or people who simply have way too much spare time may disagree with me.

People who say mastery xp is grinding don’t know how to get xp. What are you doing that you can’t get Xp fast enough. I maxed out my mastery while having a new born baby and a full time job with just knowing where to go. You can also travel anywhere you want without needing any of the mastery for gliding, shrooms and wallows. Sure for map completion etc those things are needed but just getting around you don’t need any of it.

Players are to used to being spoon fed easy content for 3 years that any sort of challenge or progression that you have to actually work for causes uproar.

maddoctor.2738:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Collecting XP for HoT mastery is more grindy than collecting XP to get to 80. Simply because there’s nowhere near enough content to max masteries. I dare say there’s nowhere near half of what you need to max it, or even a third.

Only in reality it’s not. Unless you say 1 level = 1 mastery or something like that. No matter how much content you have to get to 80 you WILL repeat it many times, especially with more characters, while with masteries you do it once and it’s over.

The comparison we’re making is unfair at its base because we’re comparing character based and account based progression. From a single character point of view, Tyria levelling isn’t grindy while HoT mastery levelling is quite grindy. From a multiple character point of view, it gets muddled. For me, Tyria is still not grindy, because by the time I’m having a go at another character, it’s been months since I played any particular part of the game I’m replaying. That’s because it takes me a very long time to exhaust the Tyria content with every character. I’ve done I think 7 map completions, and none of the areas I’ve cleared have ever been a grind. Doing an area and doing it again 3 or 4 months later? That’s not a grind. The grind only comes into play if you feel the need to rush to 80 for some purpose and don’t have access to levelling consumables. It’s not the game that’s grindy, it’s the play style people pick for themselves.

My 7 Tyria completions have taken me about 3 years. Were I to focus on the HoT content and do 7 HoT completions, meaning story and completing all areas, it would take me no more than 2 months. That’s doing one area every 2 days, and that’s allowing for far more time than I’d need if I played focussed. VB map completion can easily be cleared in around 2 hours, depending on at which point you enter the cycle. I know this is true, because I did it with my second character. I’m reserving 2 days for it in my 2 month estimate, because I’d probably want to stop to smell the roses at some points, and participate in events if the meta progression happens to be in synch with my playing times. The first play-through takes significantly longer anyway, exactly because of a lack of the masteries this whole thing is about. VB is a tiny, tiny map if you know your way around it and you have access to all the movement related masteries.

maddoctor.2738:

Would it be better if you needed half the exp you need to level a mastery but make it character bound? I’d say it would cause an uproar. 1/4 of the experience? Still an uproar. Making them account bound was the right choice and it lessens the grind by a huge amount.

Yeah, that would be bad. Because once you’re used to the shortcuts the mastery allow you to take, you probably won’t be able to stomach playing without them anymore. That’s because the masteries don’t increase your ability, they take away roadblocks. That’s an incredibly negative implementation of the levelling concept, by the way. Upon entering VB for the very first time, there are map elements you can’t use at every corner, and that first impression made the game feel very unwelcoming. The first thing about the new areas I ever said to anyone was: “I guess it’s more fun with subsequent characters.”

maddoctor.2738:

You can play in VB at least 5 times without doing the same thing following the 5 outpost chains, that will give you more than enough experience to complete any masteries needed in VB to progress further in the game (and then some). Just because you don’t have enough experience to progress in the maguuma if you blast through and ignore all content, doesn’t mean there is no content.

That quintuple of content is only available if you log on 5 times at the right time. It would take me a lot more often, because I don’t consider the clock when I play. My experience in VB ranges from getting there when almost everything is done and all there is to do is waiting for the clock to tick slowly toward nightfall, to arriving when it’s almost nightfall and nothing has been done yet and it’s pointless to start anything. Or it’s night and no one’s there doing anything and the map is sprinkled with camps overrun by mordrem. One thing that never happened to me yet is that I arrive on a map that was interesting. Of course not, because that’s very unlikely to occur spontaneously. Every “fruitful” map is filled to the brim when you arrive at inopportune times. My experience in VB is that it’s a map you can complete quite easily, and nothing very interesting happens there while you do it. Usually you’re being asked to volunteer to another map within a few minutes of arriving.

maddoctor.2738:

And really, Itzel Poison, Nuchoch Wallows and Basic Gliding are the only masteries that block your progress in some way. Anything else is an extra

Moving the goalposts. The issue is not whether we need them, but what is needed to acquire them.

maddoctor.2738:

pepsis.5384:

“Levelling there is something that just happens while you’re still discovering the world”

Of course when you discover than same poi or vista for the 5th (or 10th) time it’s such a natural feeling that you get while re-discovering the world. Natural leveling comes the first, and maybe the second time, a third if you stress it enough, from then on there isn’t much to discover anymore, you’ve already seen everything.

I have no idea how you play the game, but I haven’t seen any vista more than 7 times in 3.5 years. (Except the ones in the cities when I those for dailies.) And between any one of those viewings I’ve played the whole of Tyria, which takes quite a lot of time. Repeating something with a frequency of once every 6 months on average, that’s not a play style that feels repetitive to me. Especially because it’s not all I’ve been doing in the game by a long shot. Every time I play a new character through the game, it feels like quite a long time ago since the previous one.

Manasa Devi.7958:

The comparison we’re making is unfair at its base because we’re comparing character based and account based progression.

Of course the more characters you have the better the HoT mastery system becomes.
What does map completion have to do with anything? Map completion isn’t the only thing that gives experience. And in fact it’s not needed at all to level up. I have 8 level 80s and only 5 of them have 100% map exploration. That doesn’t mean I didn’t repeat the same thing over and over for my characters that got to 80, in fact I repeated the same content multiple times to level them. Good for you if you didn’t repeat anything but 7 map completions in 3 years means you didn’t go for those completions, I got my 5 in the first year.

Being “gated” from content because you cannot use a Nuhoch Wallow isn’t as bad as being “gated” because you don’t have a high enough level. NW provides easier access, it’s not a must-have. And there are masteries that have very little usage anyway, so getting 100% mastery completion isn’t the same as getting to level 80. Not being 80 means you can’t use the best gear (Ascended or level 80 Exotic) which really blocks you from certain aspects of the game while not having Leyline Mastery or Nuhoch Alchemy doesn’t block you from anything. OK Leyline blocks a single Mastery Insight. Masteries are horizontal progression, levels are vertical.

In other words, since masteries are account bound, you can get them with multiple characters as you play in the maguuma, there is no rush to earn them all in your first run in there, nor there is any kind of rush to re-acquire your masteries with each character. On the other hand, getting to 80 is absolutely essential to progress the most important parts of the game (and it’s character bound no less)

I think the entire idea of masteries being a grind comes from 3 types of players:
1. Those who rush through and avoid all the content, mostly because they want to follow the storyline and finish it ASAP. I’ll remind those, you can’t do that with the PS either.
2. Those who want to 100% a zone before moving to the next, for those I’ll remind them that to 100% core tyria maps you must also fill the Hearts. Filling all the hearts in a zone, or progressing a new outpost in VB? I’d take the outpost personally but others might take the hearts.
3. Those who want every single mastery as soon as possible, even if they don’t play in HoT maps. I’ve read it so many times about people who hate HoT maps and yet they complain about not getting their masteries in core tyria as if there are mushrooms or updrafts in core tyria.

Manasa Devi.7958:

maddoctor.2738:

pepsis.5384:

“Levelling there is something that just happens while you’re still discovering the world”

Of course when you discover than same poi or vista for the 5th (or 10th) time it’s such a natural feeling that you get while re-discovering the world. Natural leveling comes the first, and maybe the second time, a third if you stress it enough, from then on there isn’t much to discover anymore, you’ve already seen everything.

I have no idea how you play the game, but I haven’t seen any vista more than 7 times in 3.5 years. (Except the ones in the cities when I those for dailies.) And between any one of those viewings I’ve played the whole of Tyria, which takes quite a lot of time. Repeating something with a frequency of once every 6 months on average, that’s not a play style that feels repetitive to me. Especially because it’s not all I’ve been doing in the game by a long shot. Every time I play a new character through the game, it feels like quite a long time ago since the previous one.

You do know that are 5 zones for levels 1-15 right? Which means if you make more than 5 characters you WILL repeat content? Or you will repeat it even with less characters if you make same race characters or you go to another starting zone to get some extra experience to get to 15 so you can move on. Not to mention the REAL way to earn exp in Core Tyria was always running Dungeons. Repeat them as long as it takes until you are 80. I don’t know how you play the game, but yes if you are playing a character once a month the yes it won’t feel like repetition. I like to play my characters more often.

maddoctor.2738:

Manasa Devi.7958:

The comparison we’re making is unfair at its base because we’re comparing character based and account based progression.

Of course the more characters you have the better the HoT mastery system becomes.

Only if you don’t mind there being no more progress to be made with subsequent characters. Lots of people like making progress with characters. But masteries were never about progress anyway. They’re about removing the roadblocks they put in place to stop people from posting full HoT playthroughs on the internet on release day. Without mastery blocking, there would’ve been dozens. There’s just that little content.Yes, I’m that cynical, but truthfully, there’s really not a single mastery that feels like progress to me.

maddoctor.2738:

What does map completion have to do with anything? Map completion isn’t the only thing that gives experience. And in fact it’s not needed at all to level up.

But it’s there and it’ll get you to max level without needing to “grind” through repetitive content, whereas it’s absolutely impossible to max HoT masteries without repeating content.

maddoctor.2738:

I have 8 level 80s and only 5 of them have 100% map exploration. That doesn’t mean I didn’t repeat the same thing over and over for my characters that got to 80, in fact I repeated the same content multiple times to level them.

Of course you’re repeating things. The point is, it will take a single character ridiculous amounts of repetition to max the HoT masteries, while levelling up in Tyria doesn’t even require a single character to play anywhere near all of the content in Tyria.

HoT requires you play an insultingly small amount of content repetitively. Tyria lets you pick parts of a large amount of content.

maddoctor.2738:

Good for you if you didn’t repeat anything but 7 map completions in 3 years means you didn’t go for those completions, I got my 5 in the first year.

When I make a new character, I go for it, but not to the exclusion of everything else.

maddoctor.2738:

Being “gated” from content because you cannot use a Nuhoch Wallow isn’t as bad as being “gated” because you don’t have a high enough level.

Well, what can I say… I guess no two players are alike. My feelings couldn’t be further from those sentiments.

I’ve never ever been gated because of a character’s level. Levels in Tyria come well ahead of the need for them if you play the game instead of rushing through it. All the non-functioning map elements in VB really irritated me though. It made me put the game away for 2 months, because, not being willing to submit myself to ANet’s itinerary demands, levelling masteries is very slow in HoT.

maddoctor.2738:

In other words, since masteries are account bound, you can get them with multiple characters as you play in the maguuma, there is no rush to earn them all in your first run in there, nor there is any kind of rush to re-acquire your masteries with each character. On the other hand, getting to 80 is absolutely essential to progress the most important parts of the game (and it’s character bound no less)

I agree about the account bound masteries being a good thing. It made VB a lot less nerve-grating on my second character. I can’t even get my head around your level 80 obsession though. Level 80 just happens and if it doesn’t because you feel the need to rush toward some specific content, levelling tomes have been around for years now, ridiculous amounts of them, around every corner. I have enough tomes to instantly level 9 character to level 80, and I’ve done nothing to specifically pursue them, they just turn up at every corner. If I had pursued them, I’d probably have twice as many. ANet has dealt adequately with the complaint that levelling to 80 is dreary and if you have done 5 map completions in the first year, I’d be surprised to learn that you haven’t gotten at least as many tomes as I have over time.

maddoctor.2738:

I think the entire idea of masteries being a grind comes from 3 types of players:
1. Those who rush through and avoid all the content, mostly because they want to follow the storyline and finish it ASAP. I’ll remind those, you can’t do that with the PS either.
2. Those who want to 100% a zone before moving to the next, for those I’ll remind them that to 100% core tyria maps you must also fill the Hearts. Filling all the hearts in a zone, or progressing a new outpost in VB? I’d take the outpost personally but others might take the hearts.
3. Those who want every single mastery as soon as possible, even if they don’t play in HoT maps. I’ve read it so many times about people who hate HoT maps and yet they complain about not getting their masteries in core tyria as if there are mushrooms or updrafts in core tyria.

I’m in group 2, obsessively so. In central Tyria, if I set foot in an area for whatever reason, I generally don’t leave until I completed it. That’s why I absolutely loathe the ridiculous masteries. They’re not progression, they’re roadblock removal, and I have the feeling that I feel about roadblocks much the same as how you feel about being blocked from doing something because of not being level 80.

What does that exactly entail, by the way, progressing an outpost in VB? Is that something you need to set an alarm for?

pepsis.5384:

maddoctor.2738:

pepsis.5384:

“Levelling there is something that just happens while you’re still discovering the world”

Of course when you discover than same poi or vista for the 5th (or 10th) time it’s such a natural feeling that you get while re-discovering the world. Natural leveling comes the first, and maybe the second time, a third if you stress it enough, from then on there isn’t much to discover anymore, you’ve already seen everything.

Maybe Im just not as burned out as you people. Im currently leveling up my 4th alt, he is at lvl55 with no books used. I’m just moving around following the story, grabbing hearts and hero points along the way, collecting mats etc. Feels very natural and if the vista is boring you just skip it and still get credit for it. Veterans who played it all 50 times over or people who simply have way too much spare time may disagree with me.

And why can’t you do the same in HoT? You can move around and follow the story, follow the events, gather mats, mastery insights and hero points in the process. What’s so unnatural in HoT zones that is in core tyria?

Gaile Gray.6029:

I do not anticipate that a dev would be posting here in the immediate future, but please don’t take silence for inattention, and do post to share your thoughts!

Don’t worry… We know better than to anticipate something that extreme and extravagant.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Of course you’re repeating things. The point is, it will take a single character ridiculous amounts of repetition to max the HoT masteries, while levelling up in Tyria doesn’t even require a single character to play anywhere near all of the content in Tyria.

If you never repeat content in central tyria you won’t get anything of value. You will always repeat pieces of content of central tyria if you want to earn any worthwhile rewards. The latest addition of map rewards helps a lot, but those who seek them actually repeat content. World Bosses? Dungeons? Sure you can level up to 80 without repeating content but you won’t have much to show for it.

Why earn all the hot masteries on one character? That’s the big question. You can earn them with 10 characters, each progressing through the map and through the story on their own.

I’m in group 2, obsessively so.

Then that’s why you think it’s a grind. Not everyone feels the same though. Not everyone wants to max every zone they visit on their first try.

When they first announced the mastery system they said it was going to have a certain feeling, like Metroid. I haven’t played Metroid, but I’ve played games like Assassin’s Creed and the latest Tomb Raider. In both games there are places you simply can’t reach until you earn some specific items or skills, like a grappling hook or a skill that allows you to jump further. You “see” a path, or even a treasure chest or an achievement item that you cannot obtain because you are gated by the skill/item and your zone completion is at 90% and can’t get the last bits. It can be frustrating sometimes, but at least in an MMORPG that I use multiple characters I don’t care about that.

Similar mechanics were the inspiration behind the Mastery system. If you don’t think about that place you can’t reach now but you will later, then it’s no longer a grind.

maddoctor.2738:

You do know that are 5 zones for levels 1-15 right? Which means if you make more than 5 characters you WILL repeat content? Or you will repeat it even with less characters if you make same race characters or you go to another starting zone to get some extra experience to get to 15 so you can move on.

Who made this about the general principle of repeating content? Certainly not I. All I mentioned was that the repetition required in HoT to max the masteries is immense.

Of course you’re going to repeat content if you’re replaying the same game, duh… Anyone to whom repetition of content is an absolute turn-off, won’t last long in this game. And along came HoT… replaying a pathetically tiny amount of content numerous times to accomplish some goal or another, that’s problematic to me though, especially if that content is presented in a terribly unwelcoming manner.

And even if you’re not interested in that goal, what else are you going to do in HoT except to repeat the ridiculously tiny amount of content? If you’re not repeating it ad nauseam for masteries, and some people apparently don’t because they don’t have the mastery points to make use of the XP, you’re repeating it for the rewards. The moment you stop repeating it, you’ve stopped playing HoT. Repetition is fine, if there’s a huge amount of content to go over before starting your next iteration. That’s what kept me playing in the original game. It doesn’t work for the amount presented by HoT.

maddoctor.2738:

Not to mention the REAL way to earn exp in Core Tyria was always running Dungeons. Repeat them as long as it takes until you are 80.

Now you really lost me. I’ve never played a dungeon for experience, ever. I’m getting absolutely flabbergasted by how troublesome this “level 80” has been for you all this time. When I play a character through the game, he starts at level 1, and they’re level 80 well before I get to Fort Trinity. Every. Single. Time. Just open world play and story instances, no rushing, just playing.

maddoctor.2738:

I don’t know how you play the game, but yes if you are playing a character once a month the yes it won’t feel like repetition. I like to play my characters more often.

I play almost daily, although I’ve had long stretches of just logging in for dailies. Levelling characters doesn’t feel like repetition to me because I don’t rush from playing one character through the game to the next. I don’t even call it levelling, because that’s not what I’m doing, levelling is a side-effect of playing. That’s what I do: I play characters through the game. With every character that finishes, the need to start more of them diminishes, because I just gained another character to play my chosen level 80 content with. And when I play another character through the game, that’s never an exclusive use of my time in the game. I still log on to my other characters regularly as well, to do this or that, whatever strikes my fancy. Well, not all of them, there are always some on extended leaves of absence because I grow tired of their class, or their voice acting, or whatever.

Anet, you guys know how much did you sold, and how good or bad is your expansion working (and we will know in a week or so)
The only thing I, as a player, can add to your numbers is that HoT is not as casual oriented as Gw2 was. In fact i dont belive HoT is casual oriented at all.

Extract your own conclussions and see if the new model works or not. And if it works as intended or it doesnt, ask yourself why, please. And read this thread to know the answers.

Love.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Who made this about the general principle of repeating content?

Actually there were two points that kind of got lost. To quote myself to refresh them:

First complaint: HoT story is gated behind mastery points. GW2 pre-HoT story was gated behind levels. And you need a LOT of experience points to progress your story. New characters can level up with tomes, but masteries are Account Bound. I don’t see how HoT story is more grindy than GW2 Personal Story.
Second complaint: You can’t reach places in HoT without first leveling masteries. In GW2 pre-HoT you can’t reach places if you are low level… same thing as the above really. I remember when players went to Frostgorge from Wayfarer’s and saw the high level mobs after they added the “guide”. Fun times.

One was that Personal Story is also gated much like the story in HoT and it’s even worse because it lasts way longer. I don’t think there is anything to deny here. You get a new PS every 10 levels and you will hardly earn 2 playing it then you have to get 8 more levels to continue. In contrast to continue the story of HoT you need gliding and mushrooms, which you will get by just playing normally around VB. So the myth of story gating in HoT is null and void.

Second one: you can’t reach certain points in HoT without first leveling masteries. The amount of places you can’t reach in HoT is very very limited compared to the amount of places in central tyria you can’t reach because of your level (pretty much everything above your level). Actually you can reach pretty much any place in HoT with bouncing mushrooms and basic gliding alone, other masteries make it just easier to get there. Only exception is a Mastery Insight that you need Leyline mastery to acquire.

So where is the mastery gating again? Where do you need to grind for masteries?

maddoctor.2738:

If you never repeat content in central tyria you won’t get anything of value. You will always repeat pieces of content of central tyria if you want to earn any worthwhile rewards. The latest addition of map rewards helps a lot, but those who seek them actually repeat content. World Bosses? Dungeons? Sure you can level up to 80 without repeating content but you won’t have much to show for it.

I repeat content all the time, whatever gave you the idea that I didn’t? All I’m saying is, you don’t need to obsessively repeat a tiny amount of content to level to 80. You can, but that’s a choice, not an obligation.

You keep dragging all kinds of things into the discussion that don’t apply to my position in it. I’m going to stop respond to that because it’s pointless and only leads to huge posts with nothing of value.

1) Levelling a character to the max in Tyria can be done by partaking of some bits from a huge pool of content.
2) Levelling HoT masteries requires your choice of an amount of characters to repeat a tiny amount of content.

Therefore Tyria is better.

Of course, the only thing that really matters is completely apparent when we strip away even more. Forget about the levelling, ignore the masteries, and what we’re left with is that:

1) Tyria offers a huge pool of content.
1) HoT offers a tiny amount of content.

I’m in group 2, obsessively so.

Then that’s why you think it’s a grind. Not everyone feels the same though. Not everyone wants to max every zone they visit on their first try.

When they first announced the mastery system they said it was going to have a certain feeling, like Metroid. I haven’t played Metroid, but I’ve played games like Assassin’s Creed and the latest Tomb Raider. In both games there are places you simply can’t reach until you earn some specific items or skills, like a grappling hook or a skill that allows you to jump further. You “see” a path, or even a treasure chest or an achievement item that you cannot obtain because you are gated by the skill/item and your zone completion is at 90% and can’t get the last bits. It can be frustrating sometimes, but at least in an MMORPG that I use multiple characters I don’t care about that.[/quote]
I’ve never heard of Metroid, I vaguely recall that Assassin’s Creed is supposed to be a game. I’ve never played Tomb Raider. I’ve played 2 other “real” games (not counting whimsical browser stuff) besides games in the GW franchise since GW first came out. The other games don’t compare at all. My only frame of reference for HoT, is GW2 the original, and these roadblocks are not part of that. I’m willing to work around them, I don’t consider them a problem. What I do consider to be a problem is the extremely slow rate of XP gain if you don’t plug yourself into the meta events, which is something that’s just not happening for me.

Manasa Devi.7958:

You keep dragging all kinds of things into the discussion that don’t apply to my position in it. I’m going to stop respond to that because it’s pointless and only leads to huge posts with nothing of value.

I didn’t drag things into the discussion you changed it completely by making it a comparison between the amount of content in HoT and the amount of content in central tyria.

There were exactly two points, HoT story being gated by mastery grind is false, the PS is much more gated by levels, and second that HoT requires masteries in order to proceed further which is also false, your level is more “needed” in central tyria than masteries ever will be in HoT. You are much more blocked from progressing in old GW2 than in HoT

The amount of content in central tyria compared to the content of HoT is irrelevant for both points.

maddoctor.2738:

So where is the mastery gating again? Where do you need to grind for masteries?

The moment you venture into VB you’re confronted with all kinds of mushroom. Speed, adrenaline, bouncing. And interacting with them gives you a pop-up telling you you can’t use that content. That’s mastery gating.

That annoyed me greatly, but I pressed on.

Then I became aware of these meta cycles, participation in which demanded things of me that a game, a form of light entertainment, has no business demanding of me.

That was insufferable, so I left HoT. I returned 2 months later because I decided I did want to fully unlock the specializations for my characters. And from there I decided to complete the story because… well, I stuck with it through all of Living World season 2 and I wanted to see it through till the end. I explored a bit more of the maps with a character that needed more than a handful of hero challenges because it hadn’t finished all of Tyria yet.

And the more I see of it, the more annoyances I run into.