Guild Wars 2

Ragnarox.9601:

What will save this game in next expansion:

- New weapon types
- New races
- New continent (at least 12 maps)
- Events similar to SW (no HoT events)
- Better rewards (not just blue items)
- Mounts as cosmetics do not waste effort.
- Capes (no more wings)
- at least 36 new armor skins (12 for each class) only 2 armors/class?
- better wvw well if they wait till next expansion it will be a waste of effort as well, this needs to be here yesterday at the latest
- 2v2, 5v5 10v10 arena system Guild hall? Or maybe an event type like the Luxon/Kurzick clashes in gw1
- pvp armors and rewards pls do not make seperate armors place them in new dungeon tracks and also oblige the rewards for your next suggestion:
- 6 new dungeons with 3 path each
- 2 new raids only with Normal / Expert settings, don’t care for the present dungeons as I have ~1-2 hours of playing time an evening and ppl take 1 hour to group, so in the end I do 0-60 minutes of raiding (if lucky) and it’s no fun
- new and better crafting (fishing, treasure hunting, archeology or something…) Well what would you drag out of the water, dig up or something?
- rare monsters with rare drops Yes pls
- new fractals Yes pls….
- new elite specs yes pls
- no gating and no “we will nerf this so you must play that attitude” wrong, reinstate dungeons first
… and that my friends is worth 60$ and ppl who were mad enough to buy HoT in Ore should get 20,- reduction, repay me for my trust, which A-Net’s staff broke by lying: “No grind?, no gating, no more levels, easy accesible content, you choose what to play BUT NO DUNGEONS. Everybody should be playing everywhere BUT WE MAKE RAIDS ELITE CONTENT”

added a bit and gave small comments in bold

Also use older content but do not dare mentioning it as part of the expansion:

- Marionette
- Perma SAB (still hate it but it’s a shame to see it wasted)
- Dungeons v1.1 (buff bosses a bit to compenssate for ~20% added dps from ascneded gear) and return the rewards.
- Toxic Tower
- Bazaar of the four winds, The survivers should have build something new by now?
- Return to the molten dungeon path (add it to SE)
- Queen’s Gift a permanent rentree of the Queen’s Jubilee

- UP ALL REWARDS 1 LEVEL (junk is only for the completely numbed out farmer, instead give us 1 level higher then what we receive now. )

Get working!

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

If you’re not talking about weapons or especially armor, what you said makes even less sense than it did when I thought you were talking about ascended gear more generally.

…
Seriously, the post i was answering to was about players that started at HoT. Not about people with your playtime, Vayne.

There are plenty of people who started with HOT who have full ascended jewelry already. Don’t kid yourself. Some of them are in my guild.

Astralporing.1957 please don’t feed the gerbils, there are some that know all.

As an FYI don’t get caught into the “Gotta have ascended armor, weapons, accessories, trap” You can get exotic Armor from Karma Vendors and it is so close to the same stats as Legendary and Ascended it isn’t a factor (mostly cosmetic).

If you need different builds for you Weapons or Armor’s carry more than one set (they are not that expensive especially if you use Karma) then you can change to a specific build and don’t need the ability to switch stats (Legendary) just switch Armors or weapons.

If you just started in HoT please do not cheat yourself of the entire experience of GW2. Play the other areas, work on your build and skills and “Yes” Laurels are the best way to get Ascended Accessories, that is how I do it.

Mapping is not hard and if you let yourself get into the story instead of just focusing on the end result you will enjoy the game so much more. If your not in a guild find one with like minded people who enjoy playing the game, they will help you advance and learn.

I enjoy the time I spend chatting with Guildies in our TS or Guild chat for those who prefer to not use TS. If I personally can ever help feel free to add me as a friend or send an email I will help.

I’m not a pro by any means, but I’m always willing to help others. One of my Guildies asked me yesterday what my goal for endgame was and I said “to enjoy playing, have fun meeting new people from all over the globe”.

This thread is so long, what are people talking about now? I would like to join, but the last few pages get a bit confusing in terms of its relationship with the original post.

The central problem with the expansion really isn’t anything to do with casuals vs. hardcores. Nor is there a lack of content — by my reckoning, the Heavensward expansion for FFXIV was smaller, yet it was received better by players and I’ve found it to be better overall.

Ultimately, the problem is that there is basically only one kind of content available. Between VB, AB, and Spirit Vale, we got something like nine open-world casual raids and one hardcore instanced raid. Plus Tangled Depths, which is a bunch more raids, and Dragon’s Stand, which is a bunch more raids.

That is actually a pretty decent amount of content (what other game releases the equivalent of twenty raid wings at once?), but no matter how casual you are, what are you supposed to do if you’re not in the mood for raids? Or if you just don’t like raids? You’ll find very few significant options that haven’t been around for years already.

Yeah, I do think the game is still casual-friendly. Ascended armor is sooo optional and ascended equipment can be obtained through login rewards and guild missions.

No the only real problem here is how the meta events in hot are run: it just didn’t bother people to wait for a timer in core GW2 for world bosses because the fights didn’t require much time and the game proposed a lot more content besides these world bosses. But anyway, we also need to be realistic: if it took Anet more than five years to develop GW2 core with these timers and extra content, no way they can reiterate this success for an expansion that was unplanned and developed in 1 year and a half at best. In the end it just need some twitches and little fixes here and there to find some balance back, stuff Colin acknowledged on stream, but it is not broken because the system that they created is solid in itself

I do think it is hard to explain myself so I am gonna make a metaphorical comparison to a baseball game. Pre hot, it feels like this to me: you have got Anet, this great team with this great pitcher who throws content (the ball) to the glove of the catcher (for whatever stands for success in the eye of Anet). Low era, nice fastball, curve ball, change-up, breaking ball, all being capable to be thrown both in the inside and the outside corner.

You have batters, us, who come at the plate to play the game. But you have such a wide variety of players.
The most casual of casuals come play and can’t even swing at the ball, in fact he can barely bunt at the ball and will get many strike-out while looking, for various reasons such as no time or more more simply: no experience whatsoever to MMO genre.
At the other end of the spectrum, you have the most hardcore players: they are used to MMO, they have time more time maybe and they will just swing at the ball, hit their homerun and either decide to never return because they no have no interest in how the ball was thrown to them or keep coming because as easy as it was it was to them they still enjoyed it.
In the middle, you have the semi-casual type: they swing at the ball, they may get some strike-out and foul ball but they can hit the ball pretty hard and get on bases. However the will eventually get retired before they score.

The more Anet get their strike-out, the more players rotate and the more success it brings because players keep appearing at the plate as fast as possible, minus the occasional homeruns and hits. However, as time goes by, players get accustomated to core content and some of the most casual of casuals may even upgrade to become semi while some semi could become hardcore and some hardcore would simply leave, for the sole reason of not enough challenging/long term content. As a result the population seems to be declining (in extremely slow mode of course).

Now flashforward to hot. I really feel Anet just pushed too much changes in too much little time (conversion to f2play, ways to sell Hot, dungeon nerf, content difference in opposition to core tyria, sort of like a snowball effect but I do think these changes were needed and good).
So when players come at the plate, nothing has really changed, except that to some of them the ball looks more like a softball one than a regular baseball ball. However, because of these pushed changes, I feel like Anet is throwing the ball with too much effect, in such way that sometimes players get hit by the ball. So what happens then?
Case 1: they got hit and they are unable to continue playing the game
Case 2: they still play the game but are confused because they reached 1st base while they know they shouldn’t have
Case 3: they think that Anet has purposedly and intentionally thrown the ball to hurt them and so they write rant post on how terrible hot is because they can’t faceroll it as they used to do with core tyria.

Personally, I do feel like I am able to swing at hot content but I noticed that I got a lot more inside corner ball with hot. Regarding the rant post that you can find on these forums saying that hot is all bad because you no longer play it in a casual play, I just can’t agree with these and with you OP as a result.

Side note: I think (highly subjectively) that some players here are sooo casual that I feel like bringing a concern that nobody seems to bring up in any thread; regardless of how extremely casual the game could be played, in the end, do players actually like gw2 or they simply enjoy it? And how can Anet manage to keep the most casual of the casuals while bringing something that is more challenging if these type of players haven’t dipped enough in GW2 content to actually care about it?

please allow me to explain why ascended armor is not “sooo optional” to even a casual player that loves playing exclusively in wvw. WvW is a casual mode of the game because you can jump in at any time and play hard.

I took a quick sample of ascended leggings – it is an average of 4.5% stronger than exotic wear. each part – including trinkets, weapons and backpack vary….but for arguments sake, I will stick to the 4.5% avg I calculated.

What does this mean ? – it means that the armor defense is – 4.6% stronger, in a berserker sample, the power is 4.4% stronger the precision is 4.6% stronger and the ferocity is 4.6% stronger. – all these stats average to 4.5 – So i will use this as a base for the rest of my comments being that some items yield a higher % and others lower.
Also consider that as my precision and ferocity goes up, so does my chance to land a critical hit of greater damage. so not only does my base damage and defense stat goes up, my chances of landing major damage blows goes up as well.

now to say a blanket statement that ascended armor is only 4.6% stronger is obfuscating.

why ? – because if i just changed my leggings on my character…not everything, just 1 item. My character would be 4.6% stronger.

With this in mind lets consider all the items you can use at one time
1 amulet, 2 rings, 2 earrings, 1 backpack, 1 weapon ( 2 weapons would avg the same % increase as 1 2 handed weapon, as the stats are scaled ), helm, shoulder pads, coat, wrist guards, leggings, boots ( 6 clothing items. )

ok…so i change my pants…..i’m 4.6% stronger. Next week, I change my boots I’m AN ADDITIONAL 4.6% stronger, after I change all 13 items on my character, the sum total at an average of 4.6% is 59.8% stronger.

In the game, this means that a person who is all pve, that did all the grinding for every article of ascended gear is 59.8% stronger, than a person who has devoted all his time into becoming a master pvpr. wvw is in fact, pvp.

59.8% is significant in any mode. and i do believe it’s higher because some parts jump a little higher in difference than the leggings.

this is why, you can’t impose extreme pve rules in a pvp environment.

jumping puzzles could be the middle pve – pvp area – because this is an item more favored by pvers than pvprs ……pvprs consider that a distraction from strategic warfare.
No, I don’t want to compete while hopping on one foot chewing bubble gum while some guy that never pvpd before in his life has a 59.8% advantage over me.

now lets consider how extreme this difference becomes when you have a high population server fight a low one.

Thats a bad joke, not a competitive environment.

Ricky.4706:

ok…so i change my pants…..i’m 4.6% stronger. Next week, I change my boots I’m AN ADDITIONAL 4.6% stronger, after I change all 13 items on my character, the sum total at an average of 4.6% is 59.8% stronger.

It doesn’t work that way. One item may be 4.5% stronger, but it’s stats are not 100% of the total.

For the sake of simplicity, assume that all items have the same stats and there are 14 items (6 armor, 5 trinkets, back and 2 weapons). Each one represents 1/14th of the total stats from items. That means that each item would be about 7% of one’s total stats from items. Increasing one item by 4.5% would be .07 * .045 would be ~.3%. Increasing all 14 would mean that the total increase would be 4.5%.

But that would only be of the stats added by items. Once you add in base stats, the percentage gain from changing one item to Asc. would be an even lower percentage of the character’s total stats.

i disagree. it’s significant, and you absolutely feel the difference. it’s night and day.

further, readers don’t have to take my word for it, do the math and test it.

I’ve felt the difference between pinks and exotics. You still don’t need them.

You will find the WvW has lots of vertical progression. Food, utility, guild buffs, rank buffs, expensive rune and sigal buffs, WvW buffs for winning, and yes ascended gear buffs.

Not too mention the massive buff of “guildies” and pug recruiting that comes with a commander tag.

All of these things require gold and PvE time. It’s why WvW isn’t an esport. It’s unfair.

i tried a non zerker set on my engineer, i hardly felt a difference. So for defensive pve builds, I’ll agree that it isn’t much difference, ie – if a dragon is hitting you for 30k damage in one shot, you are going down…no matter how much health and toughness, and if you have enough health and toughness to withstand that 1 shot deathblow – you don’t have enough power to kill a fly.

With full zerker gear, it’s night and day.

In fact, what is the ascended trinket equivalent of yassith’s stats ?
I’m dying to make a combo condition spike build, and the vipers may have given me that chance! would be a nice change in strategy from pure physical dps.

Don’t waste ascended on non damage gear, that’s when ascended gear becomes less significant……..but on full spike gear …it’s very significant.

So i will say it is subjective from a pvers view and a pvprs view.

To be honest, I had my warrior and necro in hot surfing for hp sites with level 65-72 gear lol – got pretty far with it too!! my necro is a reaper with level 72 gear haha! ( and a yassiths spire :p ) – great for positioning practice. but that won’t fly in pvp! The enemies in pvp areas are not as predictable as npcs ( thats the fun of going to that level difficulty – players upgrade the game by getting better :p )

there’s a challenge for a pver, do hot in level 65-72 gear!! it’s a rush! ( i leveled the chars with tomes, so i just used the gear i got from missions to get em into hot areas. )

the point I keep trying to make, specifically for anet…..is you can’t use pve rules on pvp / wvw. please, those little details matter to us. but in pve i have more fun going in with lesser gear :p

edit : thinking about it, spiking a healers build might be an option for a team player. ie – a spiked ascended heal stat on a dedicated healing druid. ascended items shine when you spike a particular stat and follow it up with a play-style for that build. with zerker you give up defense, so your play style revolves around dodging and lighting fast high damage attacks. – rock …. counter this with a mesmer, that stacks confusion creates exploding phanthoms and goes invis. – paper……..counter the mesmer with a condition engineer – scissors.

I’m really not looking to debate with anyone, as much as I’m trying to share what i love about the game and the way i like to play it. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy the shinies too….but that’s something to do between coming up with pvp strategies for me.

GW2 quite was casual player until ascended stuff came…bringing a discret but real gear grind, there almost werent there before, because exotic was quite cheap and garanteed max amount of stats accessible almost immediatly after hitting max level, as expected.
(But I recognize that I hate farming, and most of my character were still in rare gear even 3 month after release ^^)
Hot even brought even more grind, more stats combinaisons as specific zone rewards….with high amount of material and tonken so that making one stuff you make you know long before the end a exhaustive knowledge of the map…
And this for one stuff, one character…imagine when you have multiples needing the same stats (viper etc…). It becomes quickly a grind nightmare.
Materials often not harvestable, tied to randomness of loot, with stock inferiors to demands wich make farming gold (when dungeons were not nerfed to death) to get them even more worthless.
The game was really encouraging to explore its content, I even made myself up to 16 characters at the beggining to see almost every instances of personnal story for exemple, so at least one of each class to try build that were affordable with a medium playtime (2-3h maximum a day).
The progression was nice with skins, not required…but since I like to make character that are coherent with the universe, I spent a lot of gemms to get there definitive armore skin at least in the beggining (for exemple, I was quite envious of NPCs wearing beautifull cultural armors while my character were wearing ugly starter “human” clothes…not coherent at all for a content that place you as pact leader etc…).
And I wont evoke roleplying…now extremly difficult with megaservers.

And then ascended came to satisfy “invested players” that felt that there were nothing left to do…
But if it impacted only these players, it would have been nice, but nope…the whole progression revolving around doing content, explore, and cosmetic, gear progression is also included.

Its not a question of feeling or not the difference, because there IS actually a difference (you can absolutly notice it, count it…no way it could be denied) , 5-10% is absolutly not neglectable (Even if I recognize ascended armor is the less important part…and hopefully,because its price is incredibly high), while not in standart PVE its ok, but at max level, an increasing number of content are pushing you to get those max stats.
An enterprise wich actually feel like a long chore to get materials across contents you have done countless times…especially if you play from release and have seen all those slow changes.
There are actually content that encourage you to get the max stat amount otherwise you will have almost no chance to pass DPS check (I’m looking at you raid content), unless you compense with time, and hardcore coordination and pratice time/methods to compensate the quite small but annoying lack of stats.
I know that a lot of other buff like food are involved, but if you got allof these, it doesnt drown anymore this fact.
Casual playtime shouldnt mean that you must do only “casual content” in difficulty, and required time…
I thinks its you, the player able spend 12H a day in the same game almost every day that have a problem.
Why cant people cant progress by socialising, or looking for titles achivements, exploration etc…instead of asking for possibilities to overcome player like in WvsW for exemple with a larger amount of stats instead of personnal skill, strategy etc…
And as legendary gears…yes they are firstly made to be beautifull (even if sometime its preferable for you to like rainbows and unicorns)…but who would dream of a gear that could swaps its stats without spending anything (sigil and runes appart)…its a dream for someone who didnt came for farming gear at every build change…so why is it necessary to make those so costly ?
I thinks the is a lot a changes to be made to stats…I wish they could be bound to characters almost like in GW2 (runes diminushing health but increasing some arms of the skill point tree), the gear only having an protection/damage value…
Otherwise…
Instead of having those tied to specific content, make it bound to material, a rare one representing the major stats in the recipe, and 2-3 others minors with lesser and differents materials…and adjust their rarity etc…
We all wanted a quest, a long scavenger hunt…and that not excatcly what we had for this :/
…the only one I know actually is greed…and the need for an MMORPG to chain a player to yours artificially, when the hook of content is passed and make sure the player dont leave and play the game of the concurrent.
At least try other games; there are tons of I would like to play, but I cant because of time, and you should enjoy this time varying your experience instead of sticking to one and crying for new hardcore experience, skins, stats, content than “mortal people” contistuying average players cant have/do…is this the only way for you to feel gratification, by feeling like “superior” to noobs ? more unique ? the only way to justify the massive playtime ?
That sound extremly childish for me…is it really that important to have the admiration of everyone to feel nice ? The most important aspect shouldnt first that you like your character, no matter if your stuff reflect high dedication in time, cough difficulty cough or whatever ? I’m fine with titles, but when it involve gears stats and exclusive skins…no thanks. Stop being selfish that way please…
By upscaling requirements of materials for crafting insanely for exemple…
(seriously, why logicly do I need multiple stacks of material for a single inscription).
We dont all have the time and desire to run the same contents, boss aeras, everydays as a routine…for me, after 15 times the same content, if rewards are not woth the time spent, doing it will sound like a terrible waste of time.
Precious time I would have invested in somthing else instead, more contructive like reading…
And i wont talk about RNg involved in almost everything, and mostly rewards…may the most lucky of you be rewarded fairly, oh and you can farm to augment your luck…
I clearly dont understand why reachning max stats amount (kind of power creep) should be the end of the game, wich maxed stats are actually more usefull to play the content that as a rewards for beating every single piece of this contents multiple times…when nothing is left to do.
I feel like chasing a chimera all my playtime…
I know the compagny need to keep a maximum of player for the content to be still playable (like the new meta of the 4 maps of hot), because of heavy multiplayer requirement.
Or simply make money…but sometime I wonder if would prefer a game with subscribtion but no grind, casual friendly, with a decent progression where the feeling of doing a chore wich head you to spend more than reasonnable amounts of money on gemms/gold conversion has been removed.
I’m ok with spending money and supporting Anet, but the more the game evolve, the more there is farming instead of content, and all new exclusivities going in the gemmstore (with 20g+/100 gemms…sounds like a fair deal >< )
I’m pretty sure that a lot of players are actually trying to have a relaxation time after work with a game; and are not looking for a second job as tedious as the first.

I’m looking at you people arguing that ascended is not required, this argument sound extremly hypocrite because you know that appart from high level fractal (more challlenging and rewarding of course…maybe then enjoyable); if the game dont explictly make a gate on content, soon or later, you will have to have ascended stats…for the comfort of the group, etc or whatever reason not clearly expressed by the game, but at least by players.
And at the final, it will discourage players not in ascended to avoid those content, otherwise, in the end theses players will constitue the gate the game dont explicitly made.

And if its not possible to have an MMO casual friendly, with content locked behind pay or grind walls; that can survive this way…it probably mean that our economic system is the cause and prevent games from being fair in their progression.

PS: Just a few arguments and things I thought there were necessary to say in a discussion, it could probably seen as false in some ways, but its my point of view…its the point of a discussion isnt it ?
Excuse my poor english please, the EN forum is the only one with enough people to see discussions like theses…

Well Aranvar, of course Anet push people to get ascended. Look at the game: they give log-in laurel rewards that allows you to buy ascended trinkets, they created guild commendations that also do the same, you can loot ascended armor, weapons, trinkets or earrings even by playing any kind of pvp (personally most of my ascended loot come from that and I only joined wvw zergs and played hot-join PVP with non meta build and a single character). And why is that? Because the game is so casual: you get your exotics even without having to craft, just by running events in Orr and buying pieces of it with karma or you run dungeons or you play play the pvp reward track. At some point Anet needs people to actually use the crafting system that they designed and they need some people to ultimately spend some time to upgrade to ascended, for the sole reason of “It is an mmo”. But I stand by my point, it is not required because the entrance of raids is not blocked by some frog who would tell me “you are not wearing ascended armor, you are not worthy” or some asura who would tell me the same thing at the entrance of fractals.

flog.3485:

Well Aranvar, of course Anet push people to get ascended. Look at the game: they give log-in laurel rewards that allows you to buy ascended trinkets, they created guild commendations that also do the same, you can loot ascended armor, weapons, trinkets or earrings even by playing any kind of pvp (personally most of my ascended loot come from that and I only joined wvw zergs and played hot-join PVP with non meta build and a single character). And why is that? Because the game is so casual: you get your exotics even without having to craft, just by running events in Orr and buying pieces of it with karma or you run dungeons or you play play the pvp reward track. At some point Anet needs people to actually use the crafting system that they designed and they need some people to ultimately spend some time to upgrade to ascended, for the sole reason of “It is an mmo”. But I stand by my point, it is not required because the entrance of raids is not blocked by some frog who would tell me “you are not wearing ascended armor, you are not worthy” or some asura who would tell me the same thing at the entrance of fractals.

Also, this:

They didn’t even have ascended trinkets, which the game basically throws at you.

wow.. wall of text there.. and so confusing..
Aranvar spends lots of gems on skins then complains about people who want the looks that Ascended gives you?

Claiming that exotic is cheap and Ascended is somehow really expensive when exotics are either tons of farming for karma or a chunk of gold (depending on the stat you want) from the TP. Ascended is what.. wood, ore, emp fragments, bloodstone dust.. what there has cost you loads of money?

Far too rambley to analyze.

Ricky.4706:

why ? – because if i just changed my leggings on my character…not everything, just 1 item. My character would be 4.6% stronger.

This is total nonsense, you need to go back and look at how percentages work again.

If you’re basing your beliefs in any way on this assumption you will conclude the wrong thing. You cannot disagree with me here because you are just wrong on how percentages and split stat sources work.

yes, i understand your point of a paper analysis.

I tested this in game, my necro is a reaper with level 72 gear that solos dragon stand ( killing stuff along the way ) …what made the difference ? the 1 ascended yassith’s spire.

so theorize all you want, I know for a FACT it makes a HUGE difference. Provided you know what you are doing of course.

hit hard, dodge fast …it’s a pvp thing. test it in game with the right build, put away the calculator and theoretical math formulas, it’s not translating in game as much as you think. My math is more accurate to what i “EXPERIENCED” in game.

once I get my reaper into all ascended gear, it will be a force of nature, that’s if my revenant doesn’t zerk anyone before hand.

spike your ascended stat of choice, then get back to me, none of these fluffy pve builds will show how powerful ascended gear is, but a spike build will make it clear, painfully clear.

…yes, the difference between a level 72 exotic (i assume it was exotic?) and a level 80 ascended weapon would be indeed significant. Your math is however a complete nonsense, i’m sorry to tell you .
And seeing you say that you “solo dragon stand” significantly improved my humour, for some reason.

By the way, don’t base your theories on difference in weapons – weapon alone is about half to one third, depending on build, of dps difference between full exotic and full ascended. Don’t assume that other pieces of gear will help you the same amount – they won’t – the total dps difference is below 15% even in the most optimal case. Granted, 10-12% of dps increase is still very good, but it’s definitely not 50%, not even close.

ya, it is funny, for pve ….in fact, just for fun, i may run naked in dragon stand with just a yassith’s spire / great sword and ascended trinkets and the rest kitten naked for laughs!!

Not for pvp – not when you are both in a downed state looking for that extra damage to win a fight. ^.^

further, based the pver logic, i only need 1 ascended armor to be the equivalent of a full set of gear – i’m sorry, that sounds not only illogical, but quite the scam considering how much it costs to make an all ascended armor set.

SO
Either you concede that anet is playing us with the costs of ascended gear – which the skins aren’t special at all….OR that the stats are much much more significant than you care to admit.

Ricky.4706:

ya, it is funny, for pve ….in fact, just for fun, i may run naked in dragon stand with just a yassith’s spire / great sword and ascended trinkets and the rest kitten naked for laughs!!

Not for pvp – not when you are both in a downed state looking for that extra damage to win a fight. ^.^

further, based the pver logic, i only need 1 ascended armor to be the equivalent of a full set of gear – i’m sorry, that sounds not only illogical, but quite the scam considering how much it costs to make an all ascended armor set.

SO
Either you concede that anet is playing us with the costs of ascended gear – which the skins aren’t special at all….OR that the stats are much much more significant than you care to admit.

Weapon damage contributes power to your attack.

PvP armour does nothing except Chest, Legs and Boots add to your base armour value (all the hidable pieces give zero, you can go naked in those slots with no negative effect on PvP – obviously I mean real PvP not WvW).

Percentages do not add the way you think they do – go learn some maths.

(1.05*x + y + z) =/= 1.05*(x + y + z), adding 5% stats to once item DOES NOT increase your total stats by 5%.

If you want proof go grab Ascended Boots and exotic everything else – you will not deal +5% damage with just changing boots.

You may notice a larger than 5% increase when using an Ascended Weapon because of the weapon damage increase.

Also refering to your previous biased/incorrect posts;
Comparing lvl72 items with lvl80 items is basicly trying to lie.
Also you are comparing boots (from your original post, which was nonsense) with weapons (which as explained have different effects on damage).

Hopefully you’ll stop arguing now.. I’ve explained as carefully as I can how you are wrong – you should not make any judgements or conclusions based on your previous way of thinking. Hopefully you can understand how things work now.

wait wait wait ….

you mean all along i can go to wvw totally naked and there would be no significant difference – that would actually be awesome if true! pvp in my birthday suit with ascended earrings, rings, amulet and weapon, in just my boxers! – Born Freeeee! -sings-

no, i’m sure you are wrong because I have fun with builds…but i find the discussion amusing.

Ricky.4706:

wait wait wait ….

you mean all along i can go to wvw totally naked and there would be no significant difference – that would actually be awesome if true! pvp in my birthday suit with ascended earrings, rings, amulet and weapon, in just my boxers! – Born Freeeee! -sings-

no, i’m sure you are wrong because I have fun with builds…but i find the discussion amusing.

I specifically wrote I was refering to real PvP and not WvW.. Why are you behaving like this?

Anyway my post above explains why you’re wrong, learn from it and adapt your thinking or rot in ignorance.

you do realize that wvw is actually pvp …and the armor system is different in spvp.
just fyi – Real pvp is = player vs player

please don’t obfuscate the discussion.

So where can i sing born free, wvw or spvp ?

and just for reference, my point is extreme pve rules should not be imposed in Player vs Player areas because it makes things confusing as you so wonderfully just displayed.

I’d be shocked if they added new weapons in this year. Like, really shocked. Just like when they announced elite specs (yeah, I didn’t believe it would happen).

changing specs in a pvp area should be easy to test new builds – to call wvw not ‘real’ pvp is simply wrong and discredits a part of the game that is actually way more populated than spvp.

Grinding for stats for pvp is a burden, not a challenge nor is it a joy to stop playing the mode you like just to fight someone in all ascended gear and an over populated server.

Wvw is a joke because of pve rules.

wvw is not pvp (player versus player) its army versus army – a very different model.

it’s more related to spvp than it is to pve – or at least should be.

Ricky.4706:

changing specs in a pvp area should be easy to test new builds – to call wvw not ‘real’ pvp is simply wrong and discredits a part of the game that is actually way more populated than spvp.

If you look at WvW from a sociology perspective, you would ask the question, “Which groups of players is WvW aimed at?” The answer?

• Players who like large scale PvP. This means that numbers (of players) are going to be a greater factor than the individual player’s numbers.
• Players who like ganking other players in a PvE-ish environment. Why? Because WvW is as close as as it gets in GW2 for those people. This group values the idea that their “dedication” to leveling and gearing provides them a numerical advantage. In that regard, it’s to GW2’s credit that the advantage is not as high as it gets in other games.

Would I like WvW more if the PvP locker were used instead of PvE gear? Yep, I would. I’d also prefer it if there were balanced numbers (like in GW Alliance Battles). I can live with a minor stat difference between myself and Server X Invader. I despise facing 3-5 times my server’s numbers of Server X Invaders. However, on both issues, I’m not someone that WvW was aimed at.

yep, i agree with all the above, but even beyond that, wvw is a great lab type environment for testing new builds in a fun way. wvw should be the precursor to spvp, this can also shown by all the people that like to 1v1 in wvw – it’s the same crowd but spvp is just a boxing ring, and wvw is a training camp.

and this is on topic, because in a sense wvw is casual pvp. hot join any big strategic fight. that is casual, no timers, no events , just a hot join when i get home from a long day of work or school or whatever… and have only 1 hr to play.

hardcore to me means lots of planning, waiting, organizing, casual to me means i have 1 hour to play and i want to play hard. It doesn’t necessarily mean easy content, just nothing that requires me to spend an hour assembling a team or weeks of grinding to get the appropriate gear.

Ricky.4706:

you mean all along i can go to wvw totally naked and there would be no significant difference

We weren’t comparing naked to ascended but exotics to ascended. Or at least i thought so.

The “armor is irrelevant” part was about sPvP, where your armor level and rarity tier is indeed irrelevant (you do need to have chest, pants, boots and a weapon, but they can be level 1 whites, as their stats are not taken from the gear itself.)

WvW is considered a different mode, and is not using PvP mechanics, but PvE ones.

Ricky.4706:

no, i’m sure you are wrong because I have fun with builds…but i find the discussion amusing.

All your surety, fun and amusement won’t change the simple fact that your math was just wrong. Which you’d know already if you had even a basic understanding of fractions.

well i sure hope you are not one of the developers, because if so, it would explain why the game isn’t doing as well as it use to.

you obviously don’t know your own game, but you are entitled to believe so.

May be time to break this thread down. All things considered the players in-game are still (generally) friendly. There are always exceptions, just like real life.

This discussion made me think about a book i recently reread, Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. In the comment he made for a reprint of the book A. Huxley said that there should be introduced a new Human Right. This one:
The right of a human being to be in-efficient.
I play this game not to be efficient but to be in-efficient. I want to explore and get lost hopelessly only to find that one event almost nobody has seen before.
I want the option of having to fail an event and get rewarded by a follow up event to right my wrong in letting that first event fail.
I want to take my guildies that only show up on friday evening on an epic 5 hour run to get the raid wing done. Note, i have not done it yet but i imagine it to be somewhat like Underworld orFissure of Woe were in GW1. Very hard content but with a group that is dedicated to spend hours on end once every 3 months you could do it. I just hope that raid wings can offer that.

To me being casual stands for the right to be in-efficient. That’s my opinion.

I hope those ascended trinkets with the HoT stats will be available to “casual” players that cannot spend time to run the DS events or do raids.

^^ why, because you want it too without the effort? I would like some gear from spvp but I don’t play it because I prefer playing a certain spec that is no good for spvp, should I expect to get that too? in fact isn’t everyone entitled to everything, so cant we just do away the unique rewards from unique content and get it all on demand too?

being ‘casual’ has nothing to do with it, casual players are ex raiders too you know.

Ricky.4706:

yes, i understand your point of a paper analysis.

I tested this in game, my necro is a reaper with level 72 gear that solos dragon stand ( killing stuff along the way ) …what made the difference ? the 1 ascended yassith’s spire.

so theorize all you want, I know for a FACT it makes a HUGE difference. Provided you know what you are doing of course.

hit hard, dodge fast …it’s a pvp thing. test it in game with the right build, put away the calculator and theoretical math formulas, it’s not translating in game as much as you think. My math is more accurate to what i “EXPERIENCED” in game.

once I get my reaper into all ascended gear, it will be a force of nature, that’s if my revenant doesn’t zerk anyone before hand.

spike your ascended stat of choice, then get back to me, none of these fluffy pve builds will show how powerful ascended gear is, but a spike build will make it clear, painfully clear.

We did an 8 man VG in exotics. Enough said.

then i shouldn’t talk about how i was soloing champs with my yassith’s spire ? but then it wouldn’t be fair because my build was brilliant. so I digress, point taken.

which i found btw, that the necro is a most excellent pve character – i hear it’s great for pvp too now, i haven’t tried that part yet. my pve build wouldn’t fly in pvp though so…

I wish maps in HoT would not keep opening and closing all the time. I am sick of exploring the new areas or working events alone. Fix that! By the pale tree, make maps support 1000 players.

The raid sucks. There, I said it. It is designed more like a jumping puzzle with linear, gated progression and does nothing to encourage players to communicate and support each other. It’s just like the old dungeons but longer and tougher. New players die and are left for dead. Players complaining about each other. The raid is like a speed run where everyone just memorizes the pattern and does max dps. The raid is not “hard core” gaming. It is just a repetitive pain in the mule; a really grindy event to farm. Teqatl is more fun.

today come home from work got a phone call missed DS timer. Went and watch a show on TV missed next DS timer looked on steam at other games to play. When did GW become the game you have to set an alarm clock to play. Put smaller events in there outside of the main meta if you miss the meta you can still build up currency and put a few pods in there. There is no way you guys thought this is what the players asked for.

raenen.5807:

today come home from work got a phone call missed DS timer. Went and watch a show on TV missed next DS timer looked on steam at other games to play. When did GW become the game you have to set an alarm clock to play. Put smaller events in there outside of the main meta if you miss the meta you can still build up currency and put a few pods in there. There is no way you guys thought this is what the players asked for.

I agree.

Stupid timers on long event chains means if you do not camp an event map and are tossed onto a duplicate map, fail. If a large guild is planning for the event, they all collect on your map, then port out at the last minute and your map fails. If you are trying to do something else besides the big event, there is no one around until the event ends and you get an offer to go to a more populated map where, again, there is no one around and you lose your progression.

I went back to alts. HoT is worthlress for me except for the “elite” traits. I’m letting my wallet speak to ArenaNet, hope they hear it.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Ragnarox.9601:

What will save this game in next expansion:

- New weapon types
- New races
- New continent (at least 12 maps)
- Events similar to SW (no HoT events)
- Better rewards (not just blue items)
- Mounts as cosmetics do not waste effort.
- Capes (no more wings)
- at least 36 new armor skins (12 for each class) only 2 armors/class?
- better wvw well if they wait till next expansion it will be a waste of effort as well, this needs to be here yesterday at the latest
- 2v2, 5v5 10v10 arena system Guild hall? Or maybe an event type like the Luxon/Kurzick clashes in gw1
- pvp armors and rewards pls do not make seperate armors place them in new dungeon tracks and also oblige the rewards for your next suggestion:
- 6 new dungeons with 3 path each
- 2 new raids only with Normal / Expert settings, don’t care for the present dungeons as I have ~1-2 hours of playing time an evening and ppl take 1 hour to group, so in the end I do 0-60 minutes of raiding (if lucky) and it’s no fun
- new and better crafting (fishing, treasure hunting, archeology or something…) Well what would you drag out of the water, dig up or something?
- rare monsters with rare drops Yes pls
- new fractals Yes pls….
- new elite specs yes pls
- no gating and no “we will nerf this so you must play that attitude” wrong, reinstate dungeons first
… and that my friends is worth 60$ and ppl who were mad enough to buy HoT in Ore should get 20,- reduction, repay me for my trust, which A-Net’s staff broke by lying: “No grind?, no gating, no more levels, easy accesible content, you choose what to play BUT NO DUNGEONS. Everybody should be playing everywhere BUT WE MAKE RAIDS ELITE CONTENT”

added a bit and gave small comments in bold

Also use older content but do not dare mentioning it as part of the expansion:

- Marionette
- Perma SAB (still hate it but it’s a shame to see it wasted)
- Dungeons v1.1 (buff bosses a bit to compenssate for ~20% added dps from ascneded gear) and return the rewards.
- Toxic Tower
- Bazaar of the four winds, The survivers should have build something new by now?
- Return to the molten dungeon path (add it to SE)
- Queen’s Gift a permanent rentree of the Queen’s Jubilee

- UP ALL REWARDS 1 LEVEL (junk is only for the completely numbed out farmer, instead give us 1 level higher then what we receive now. )

Get working!

Dungeon bosses should not be balanced around people in ascended gear. That’s what you have raids for. If you buff bosses for ascended geared ppl than exotic geared people (the more casual players) will have it even worse.

I’m replying more to the “Grindy” thread that was merged with the OP of this one, but I strongly suggest the Dev’s take the time to view at least the first few minutes of the linked Video; where in 3 very advanced and capable players are discussing their current dissatisfaction with the Grind they feel the game has become.

Now personally I don’t agree with all their points, but I think they are all worth a listen. C.

Maybe I’m in the minority here but I’m not a fan of hyperbole. I think this game is on the whole, very casual friendly. I only play (at most) several hours a week and am able to play what I enjoy without feeling penalized for missing out during inactivity.

Am I going to get every collection? Nope. I also don’t care to do so. If I did, I would make time in my life for them. “Grindy” things like that don’t make me happy and I won’t do them. Not sure why there is so much complaining about content like this. Either you enjoy it or you don’t. If you hate grinding but felt compelled to get “Ex Machina”, you’ve only got yourself to blame for your misery.

The complaints about timers in maps are valid in my view though. There are times when I would have liked playing AB or TD, etc.. but just didn’t have the time to wait for a reset. Still, FWIW, this game is quite friendly to casual players.

I just have a sneaking suspicion that many self proclaimed forum casuals are not very casual themselves.

I think that all too many people have lost sight of the idea that being casual friendly does not mean being friendly exclusively to casual players.

Just because Bill is my friend does not mean that he cannot have other friends.

Ashen, you summed it up perfectly. There are beyond a doubt many casual aspects of the game. It isn’t really reasonable to be upset when something is introduced for players with hours to play each day.

The problem is less a case of having plenty of casual things to do, its the fact all of them are gated behind a wall of time consuming effort and the fact that most of it requires insane amounts of time sinked into the game to attain it.

Heres an example:

If you really could be kitten d to farm every single mastery point in the game your after roughly the equivilient of 11-20 level 80 characters worth of xp farming, yes, from 1-80 that is included.

Now while it is entirley accessable to reach that farm, it is the amount of effort in terms of time sink required to attain that farm, required to do that content, that isnt casual friendly. You can have a challenging game with 2 hours worth of playability and it can still be casual friendly, what isnt casual friendly, is the idea of a time sink that requires commitment to an insane level.

That is entirley what HoT is, every single piece of content “in” HoT is a time sink, now im not saying GW2’s vanillia content wasnt, nor that Silverwastes or Drytop or anything in Season 1 didnt have time sinks. What I am saying, is that the approach in which time=effort=reward is not a good medium for content consumption in a market where people are more demanding and less able to commit than ever.

Its not instant gratification, per say, its the concept of doing something meaningful for a short burst of time that still makes you feel like you have attained progress.

As an example of this, lets assume they cut the entire mastery grind in half, removed 2/3rds of the mastery points required to make it possible to max out mastery.

Would that be a bad thing?

No, because theres plenty of other time sink based content in the game to do, raiding is designed with the sole purpose in any mmo to be a “time sink” designed to make you constantly play the same raid over and over with the intent of attaining all the loot rewards from it.

PvP is a time sink, you farm pvp ranks in order to attain the best possible levels and ranks thats what its for, as a content as a medium.

Ascended crafting, is a time sink, you take time to gather materials from the game world and via long efforts of mat farming to get the best gear possible.

Legendary crafting, is a time sink.

Almost “every” weapon collection in HoT is a timesink, and every armor collection requiring insane amounts of tokens.

The problem is…

Everything, is a bloody time sink.

There isnt a content in which “small” but meaningful can be applied at the present point, and thats a bad thing. Right now, theres no content where you play for 20 minuates and feel a reward after 20 minuates, nothing in the game at all exists designed around this.

Thats the issue here, what it needs is “less” time sinks, and I mean “alot” less.

If it was up to me, 2/3rds of the current “world” pve time sinks like auric basin, verdant brink, etc would be downright nerfed into oblivion, we dont need to collect 500 tokens plus gold for a single item, thats just downright madness.

Ontop of farming for a mastery? Ontop of getting ascended level versions of the weapons we are given with specializations?

Ontop of the raiding, that genuinley interferes with verdant brinks tier 4 aquisition due to the amount of morons standing outside the spirit vale entrance ruining the world map completion for other people?

The issue here, is that the game is “far” too group oriented, “far” too time heavy, and “far” too much for alot of people to even ‘try’ to commit to.

So again, cut the amount of time it takes to aquire weapons and armor in world content down to a third, and you have it fixed.

Maybe make the cost of every armor, 150 tokens, instead of 500, make every weapon, 200 tokens, instead of 500.

“Then” people might have “incentive” to care about getting them or collecting skins, or doing content.

Less, is more, people get more out of a game when they have to do less to enjoy it.

As a parting note, Id like to say I was one of the few that commited to getting the bladed backpack when it was a thing, I commited to getting the mad kings backpack, ive commited to some time sink worthy content in my time.

I just feel like the game has too much of it.

a ‘Time sink’ is not a gate. Casuals are as capable of farming as hardcore players. Casuals like long term goals, they don’t need a reward every 4 seconds., in fact it tends to be the hardcore that feel the need to constantly progress to validate their time spent,.

I’m relatively new to these parts and have no intention of trying to brush off anyone’s particular perspective of the game. As a new(ish) player I would simply like to submit my personal experience.

I quite happily consider myself a casual player, but this doesn’t mean I don’t invest a lot of time into the game. When I say casual I mean to say that I enjoy good stories, exciting encounters and the ability to hop in and out of them with ease.

I came to GW2 from leading a guild in Elder Scrolls Online. I was frustrated by the content (or lack thereof) and the stupid restrictions it took to get my guildies together to play through any particular piece of content. None of these problems exists for us in GW2 (barring the obvious level requirements and other basic and expected gates).

With a couple button clicks I can have my people grouped up and we’re fighting a world boss. Then we can opt to go run through one of the end game zones like the Silverwastes or venture into HoT. After that we might knock out a fractal or two and finish up with some quick pvp matches.

These are all experiences I would definitely classify as casual friendly. They don’t require extensive prep time or gear swaps or whatever and for the most part are easy to jump in and out of. That doesn’t mean there aren’t challenges in the game, but when did casual friendly have to mean easily achieved?

What I have loved about GW2 since migrating over is that no matter your predilection there is a path for you to achieve your aims. If you don’t want to grind mats for something, just play the game as usual and save up for it. If don’t want to grind OR spend a lot of gold you can continue to play as you like and eventually you will have what you want/need. These paths in no way require the same exact time to complete, some are faster than others but no matter how you want to play there is a way to achieve your goals.

If all goals were easy, nothing would be worth doing. I feel like Anet has done a very good job of providing meaningful progression no matter how much time you put in. If you only complete the dailies each day you have achieved something. If you only spend time gathering mats to craft ascended materials, again, you have achieved something. These smaller goals tend to dovetail into a greater goal such as crafting ascended gear, finishing up a dungeon path, or getting your next achievement chest that naturally take a longer period of time. For the people who would rather throw gold at the hurdle instead, there are usually options on that front as well.

While I can certainly understand how some might feel this game isn’t casual friendly, in my grumpy, bad mystic forge days I know I have certainly muttered it. I don’t think that to be the case and I would welcome anyone who feels differently to give me a shout in the game and I will happily hear you out and perhaps we can find a way to make the game fun for you again.

MrGhosty.4296:

I’m relatively new to these parts and have no intention of trying to brush off anyone’s particular perspective of the game. As a new(ish) player I would simply like to submit my personal experience.

I quite happily consider myself a casual player, but this doesn’t mean I don’t invest a lot of time into the game. When I say casual I mean to say that I enjoy good stories, exciting encounters and the ability to hop in and out of them with ease.

I came to GW2 from leading a guild in Elder Scrolls Online. I was frustrated by the content (or lack thereof) and the stupid restrictions it took to get my guildies together to play through any particular piece of content. None of these problems exists for us in GW2 (barring the obvious level requirements and other basic and expected gates).

With a couple button clicks I can have my people grouped up and we’re fighting a world boss. Then we can opt to go run through one of the end game zones like the Silverwastes or venture into HoT. After that we might knock out a fractal or two and finish up with some quick pvp matches.

These are all experiences I would definitely classify as casual friendly. They don’t require extensive prep time or gear swaps or whatever and for the most part are easy to jump in and out of. That doesn’t mean there aren’t challenges in the game, but when did casual friendly have to mean easily achieved?

What I have loved about GW2 since migrating over is that no matter your predilection there is a path for you to achieve your aims. If you don’t want to grind mats for something, just play the game as usual and save up for it. If don’t want to grind OR spend a lot of gold you can continue to play as you like and eventually you will have what you want/need. These paths in no way require the same exact time to complete, some are faster than others but no matter how you want to play there is a way to achieve your goals.

If all goals were easy, nothing would be worth doing. I feel like Anet has done a very good job of providing meaningful progression no matter how much time you put in. If you only complete the dailies each day you have achieved something. If you only spend time gathering mats to craft ascended materials, again, you have achieved something. These smaller goals tend to dovetail into a greater goal such as crafting ascended gear, finishing up a dungeon path, or getting your next achievement chest that naturally take a longer period of time. For the people who would rather throw gold at the hurdle instead, there are usually options on that front as well.

While I can certainly understand how some might feel this game isn’t casual friendly, in my grumpy, bad mystic forge days I know I have certainly muttered it. I don’t think that to be the case and I would welcome anyone who feels differently to give me a shout in the game and I will happily hear you out and perhaps we can find a way to make the game fun for you again.

Great post. Thanks for making it.

I think what you’re seeing here is the disconnect between someone coming from a more typical style MMO and people who were here from day 1.

This game is still far less restrictive than most themepark MMOs by a good margin….but it’s considerably more restrictive than this game was at launch. That’s why people are annoyed by the changes.

When this game launched, world bosses weren’t on schedules at all. In fact, they appeared on different servers on different types. When Anet introduced the megaserver techology that was no longer an option and they had to go to a timer. Now a timer for a 15 minute world boss isn’t that big a deal, where as a timer for a two hour meta event could be.

If you have 3 hours to play every night, and you can’t make the beginning of the DS meta due to when you get home, it’s entirely likely you won’t be able to get into a map doing the meta. That means that you have to wait for the next time, which might be more than an hour away, which might mean having to stay up late or otherwise change your schedule in order to experience the last zone of the game. It’s simply not convenient.

Even when the world bosses schedule first came out, there were complaints by people who wanted to do say the Karka queen, but it only appeared every three hours and they couldn’t play during the time that it was there, so it killed that boss for them. Not a problem if you’re doing random bosses…more of a problem if you need that specific boss, which is happening more and more as the game progresses.

I agree with you. This game is still night and day as far as freedom goes, when compared to other MMOs. It’s just not as good as it was for some of us as it was at launch.