Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Stevieboy.4192:

Just like to say again, open maps should be open and explorable not gated.
Stick as many jump puzzles and (insert whatever here) behind gates as much as you want if it doesn’t affect MAP COMPLETION or gaining a Ranger/ Druid whatever pet..
Can I complete so and so jump puzzle?
Probably not as I don’t like them and don’t have the patience or time to spend hours on them for a chest full of crap.
I already have to jump through hoops ( literally in some cases) for even the basic achievements in the game.
(Don’t get me started on the Lions Arch Karka shooting)
Yeah, wait for night time for a door to open then do a jump puzzle and it’s in the bag…
Of course you have six hours to waste on the one thing..
Isn’t this supposed to be fun?
Explorable should be just that. I had no time limits or needed a massive amount of players to get around Queensdale or any of the other core maps.
Why now?

I was in Orr today with a new guildie, who was trying to complete Cursed Shore. The temple of Grenth was under risen control and one of the hero points he couldn’t commune with because it was surrounded by poison. Tried laying down a healing spring for him, but he still couldn’t commune.

Until the temple was taken, he couldn’t commune with that point no matter what we did and the temple event wasn’t up.

We had to wait for the temple event to get up. I popped a tag, I got people there, and we finally took back the temple. Then he was able to get that hero point (not the one in the temple of grenth but the one on the north side of the same island).

This game has always had stuff gated by events. It’s just been so long most people don’t remember.

If this comes up again, you can commune at that HC even if the poison field is up if you move all the way up against the back wall. That puts you just out of the poison field. You’d have to wait for the poison to run its course because the damage ticks are what breaks the commune. Haven’t tried it in a while, but it worked last summer, so unless ANet increased the size of the effect … At least it would be worth a shot.

If you want an example of a core HC that cannot be gotten if a temple is in the Risen’s hands, you’d be better to use the Melandru HC on the plain just north of the Grenth Temple. If that briar effect is up … well, I haven’t found a way around it, anyway.

There is no back wall. This is in the open in the middle of a field. There’s no back wall, no way out of the poison field and we spent 15 minutes trying to do it.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Stevieboy.4192:

Just like to say again, open maps should be open and explorable not gated.
Stick as many jump puzzles and (insert whatever here) behind gates as much as you want if it doesn’t affect MAP COMPLETION or gaining a Ranger/ Druid whatever pet..
Can I complete so and so jump puzzle?
Probably not as I don’t like them and don’t have the patience or time to spend hours on them for a chest full of crap.
I already have to jump through hoops ( literally in some cases) for even the basic achievements in the game.
(Don’t get me started on the Lions Arch Karka shooting)
Yeah, wait for night time for a door to open then do a jump puzzle and it’s in the bag…
Of course you have six hours to waste on the one thing..
Isn’t this supposed to be fun?
Explorable should be just that. I had no time limits or needed a massive amount of players to get around Queensdale or any of the other core maps.
Why now?

I was in Orr today with a new guildie, who was trying to complete Cursed Shore. The temple of Grenth was under risen control and one of the hero points he couldn’t commune with because it was surrounded by poison. Tried laying down a healing spring for him, but he still couldn’t commune.

Until the temple was taken, he couldn’t commune with that point no matter what we did and the temple event wasn’t up.

We had to wait for the temple event to get up. I popped a tag, I got people there, and we finally took back the temple. Then he was able to get that hero point (not the one in the temple of grenth but the one on the north side of the same island).

This game has always had stuff gated by events. It’s just been so long most people don’t remember.

If this comes up again, you can commune at that HC even if the poison field is up if you move all the way up against the back wall. That puts you just out of the poison field. You’d have to wait for the poison to run its course because the damage ticks are what breaks the commune. Haven’t tried it in a while, but it worked last summer, so unless ANet increased the size of the effect … At least it would be worth a shot.

If you want an example of a core HC that cannot be gotten if a temple is in the Risen’s hands, you’d be better to use the Melandru HC on the plain just north of the Grenth Temple. If that briar effect is up … well, I haven’t found a way around it, anyway.

There is no back wall. This is in the open in the middle of a field. There’s no back wall, no way out of the poison field and we spent 15 minutes trying to do it.

There is only one Grenth Statue HC in Cursed Shore. It’s in the Temple of Silence.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Statue_of_Grenth_

Are you sure you aren’t talking about the Melandru Statue which procs bleed and cripple rather than poison?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Graven_Cay

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Stevieboy.4192:

Just like to say again, open maps should be open and explorable not gated.
Stick as many jump puzzles and (insert whatever here) behind gates as much as you want if it doesn’t affect MAP COMPLETION or gaining a Ranger/ Druid whatever pet..
Can I complete so and so jump puzzle?
Probably not as I don’t like them and don’t have the patience or time to spend hours on them for a chest full of crap.
I already have to jump through hoops ( literally in some cases) for even the basic achievements in the game.
(Don’t get me started on the Lions Arch Karka shooting)
Yeah, wait for night time for a door to open then do a jump puzzle and it’s in the bag…
Of course you have six hours to waste on the one thing..
Isn’t this supposed to be fun?
Explorable should be just that. I had no time limits or needed a massive amount of players to get around Queensdale or any of the other core maps.
Why now?

I was in Orr today with a new guildie, who was trying to complete Cursed Shore. The temple of Grenth was under risen control and one of the hero points he couldn’t commune with because it was surrounded by poison. Tried laying down a healing spring for him, but he still couldn’t commune.

Until the temple was taken, he couldn’t commune with that point no matter what we did and the temple event wasn’t up.

We had to wait for the temple event to get up. I popped a tag, I got people there, and we finally took back the temple. Then he was able to get that hero point (not the one in the temple of grenth but the one on the north side of the same island).

This game has always had stuff gated by events. It’s just been so long most people don’t remember.

If this comes up again, you can commune at that HC even if the poison field is up if you move all the way up against the back wall. That puts you just out of the poison field. You’d have to wait for the poison to run its course because the damage ticks are what breaks the commune. Haven’t tried it in a while, but it worked last summer, so unless ANet increased the size of the effect … At least it would be worth a shot.

If you want an example of a core HC that cannot be gotten if a temple is in the Risen’s hands, you’d be better to use the Melandru HC on the plain just north of the Grenth Temple. If that briar effect is up … well, I haven’t found a way around it, anyway.

There is no back wall. This is in the open in the middle of a field. There’s no back wall, no way out of the poison field and we spent 15 minutes trying to do it.

There is only one Grenth Statue HC in Cursed Shore. It’s in the Temple of Silence.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Statue_of_Grenth_

Are you sure you aren’t talking about the Melandru Statue which procs bleed and cripple rather than poison?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Graven_Cay

I didn’t say the grenth statue. I’m talking about the hero point on the north of the island. But that shrine isn’t actually taken over until you take the temple. You have to take the temple to control the shrine. Before that, it’s just out in the middle of a field of poison and there’s no way to get it. I know because I was there earlier today.

You take the temple, and you can then commune with that hero point.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Stevieboy.4192:

Just like to say again, open maps should be open and explorable not gated.
Stick as many jump puzzles and (insert whatever here) behind gates as much as you want if it doesn’t affect MAP COMPLETION or gaining a Ranger/ Druid whatever pet..
Can I complete so and so jump puzzle?
Probably not as I don’t like them and don’t have the patience or time to spend hours on them for a chest full of crap.
I already have to jump through hoops ( literally in some cases) for even the basic achievements in the game.
(Don’t get me started on the Lions Arch Karka shooting)
Yeah, wait for night time for a door to open then do a jump puzzle and it’s in the bag…
Of course you have six hours to waste on the one thing..
Isn’t this supposed to be fun?
Explorable should be just that. I had no time limits or needed a massive amount of players to get around Queensdale or any of the other core maps.
Why now?

I was in Orr today with a new guildie, who was trying to complete Cursed Shore. The temple of Grenth was under risen control and one of the hero points he couldn’t commune with because it was surrounded by poison. Tried laying down a healing spring for him, but he still couldn’t commune.

Until the temple was taken, he couldn’t commune with that point no matter what we did and the temple event wasn’t up.

We had to wait for the temple event to get up. I popped a tag, I got people there, and we finally took back the temple. Then he was able to get that hero point (not the one in the temple of grenth but the one on the north side of the same island).

This game has always had stuff gated by events. It’s just been so long most people don’t remember.

If this comes up again, you can commune at that HC even if the poison field is up if you move all the way up against the back wall. That puts you just out of the poison field. You’d have to wait for the poison to run its course because the damage ticks are what breaks the commune. Haven’t tried it in a while, but it worked last summer, so unless ANet increased the size of the effect … At least it would be worth a shot.

If you want an example of a core HC that cannot be gotten if a temple is in the Risen’s hands, you’d be better to use the Melandru HC on the plain just north of the Grenth Temple. If that briar effect is up … well, I haven’t found a way around it, anyway.

There is no back wall. This is in the open in the middle of a field. There’s no back wall, no way out of the poison field and we spent 15 minutes trying to do it.

There is only one Grenth Statue HC in Cursed Shore. It’s in the Temple of Silence.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Statue_of_Grenth_

Are you sure you aren’t talking about the Melandru Statue which procs bleed and cripple rather than poison?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Graven_Cay

I didn’t say the grenth statue. I’m talking about the hero point on the north of the island. But that shrine isn’t actually taken over until you take the temple. You have to take the temple to control the shrine. Before that, it’s just out in the middle of a field of poison and there’s no way to get it. I know because I was there earlier today.

You take the temple, and you can then commune with that hero point.

There are two Hero Points on the northern part of Graven Cay. One is Harbinger Torch, which is not in any kind of damaging field unless someone standing near it gets targeted by the Risen catapults. That one is easily dealt with by getting the catapult to target you a bit away from it, dodging, then running over and communing, for which there is ample time while the catapult reloads.

The other is the statue of Melandru, which is in a vine/creeper field if the Melandru Temple is not in Pact control. That field causes bleeds and cripple, not poison. That one can be gained via stealth, according to both Khisanth and the Wiki.

So, are you talking some other island? Mistook bleed for poison? There’s only one Grenth statue — which is the one that produces a poison field — in Cursed Shore and that’s in the Cathedral of Silence.

In terms of difficult to solo core HP the temple of Balthazar one would also be difficult to solo although stealth can work there as well.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Stevieboy.4192:

Just like to say again, open maps should be open and explorable not gated.
Stick as many jump puzzles and (insert whatever here) behind gates as much as you want if it doesn’t affect MAP COMPLETION or gaining a Ranger/ Druid whatever pet..
Can I complete so and so jump puzzle?
Probably not as I don’t like them and don’t have the patience or time to spend hours on them for a chest full of crap.
I already have to jump through hoops ( literally in some cases) for even the basic achievements in the game.
(Don’t get me started on the Lions Arch Karka shooting)
Yeah, wait for night time for a door to open then do a jump puzzle and it’s in the bag…
Of course you have six hours to waste on the one thing..
Isn’t this supposed to be fun?
Explorable should be just that. I had no time limits or needed a massive amount of players to get around Queensdale or any of the other core maps.
Why now?

I was in Orr today with a new guildie, who was trying to complete Cursed Shore. The temple of Grenth was under risen control and one of the hero points he couldn’t commune with because it was surrounded by poison. Tried laying down a healing spring for him, but he still couldn’t commune.

Until the temple was taken, he couldn’t commune with that point no matter what we did and the temple event wasn’t up.

We had to wait for the temple event to get up. I popped a tag, I got people there, and we finally took back the temple. Then he was able to get that hero point (not the one in the temple of grenth but the one on the north side of the same island).

This game has always had stuff gated by events. It’s just been so long most people don’t remember.

If this comes up again, you can commune at that HC even if the poison field is up if you move all the way up against the back wall. That puts you just out of the poison field. You’d have to wait for the poison to run its course because the damage ticks are what breaks the commune. Haven’t tried it in a while, but it worked last summer, so unless ANet increased the size of the effect … At least it would be worth a shot.

If you want an example of a core HC that cannot be gotten if a temple is in the Risen’s hands, you’d be better to use the Melandru HC on the plain just north of the Grenth Temple. If that briar effect is up … well, I haven’t found a way around it, anyway.

There is no back wall. This is in the open in the middle of a field. There’s no back wall, no way out of the poison field and we spent 15 minutes trying to do it.

There is only one Grenth Statue HC in Cursed Shore. It’s in the Temple of Silence.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Statue_of_Grenth_

Are you sure you aren’t talking about the Melandru Statue which procs bleed and cripple rather than poison?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Graven_Cay

I didn’t say the grenth statue. I’m talking about the hero point on the north of the island. But that shrine isn’t actually taken over until you take the temple. You have to take the temple to control the shrine. Before that, it’s just out in the middle of a field of poison and there’s no way to get it. I know because I was there earlier today.

You take the temple, and you can then commune with that hero point.

There are two Hero Points on the northern part of Graven Cay. One is Harbinger Torch, which is not in any kind of damaging field unless someone standing near it gets targeted by the Risen catapults. That one is easily dealt with by getting the catapult to target you a bit away from it, dodging, then running over and communing, for which there is ample time while the catapult reloads.

The other is the statue of Melandru, which is in a vine/creeper field if the Melandru Temple is not in Pact control. That field causes bleeds and cripple, not poison. That one can be gained via stealth, according to both Khisanth and the Wiki.

So, are you talking some other island? Mistook bleed for poison? There’s only one Grenth statue — which is the one that produces a poison field — in Cursed Shore and that’s in the Cathedral of Silence.

It has a green cloud around it, not vines. I know the vines you’re talking about and they weren’t present, but a green cloud was. Regardless, the facts are the same.

Until we took the temple, which we had to wait for and needed people for, we couldn’t get that hero point. Whether it’s poison, bleeding, cripple, or gangrene doesn’t actually change the point of what I’m saying.

That hero point was locked behind an event I had to wait for and I couldn’t solo.

After struggled for weeks, for me HOT is unplayable by casual players for majority of classes. Only one that can be soloed to some degree and to play personal story are revenant and guardian. I loved original Gw2, now I’m sorry I have spent money on HOT. They have ruined completely idea of original game. If you wish you play solo, if not, you group. Now is group only. And has nothing to do with LTP.

For now I’m done for long time again with Gw2, “playing” is actually not what should be, now it is just pure frustration.

jpicard.3806:

After struggled for weeks, for me HOT is unplayable by casual players for majority of classes. Only one that can be soloed to some degree and to play personal story are revenant and guardian. I loved original Gw2, now I’m sorry I have spent money on HOT. They have ruined completely idea of original game. If you wish you play solo, if not, you group. Now is group only. And has nothing to do with LTP.

For now I’m done for long time again with Gw2, “playing” is actually not what should be, now it is just pure frustration.

All casual relates to is investment in the game which often means time spent pkaying during a given timeframe. It does not relate to skill level although there is some correlation. There are people who describe themselves as casual who perform very well in the game. There are people who do not describe themselves as casual and perform very poorly in the game.

HoT is very well possible to solo on any class. Like in a previous thread I saw, if it’s labeled as a “group event” then don’t expect to solo it. A large percentage of events within the HoT maps can be done solo. The entire HoT story can be done solo using pretty much any build.

Have read a lot on forums, not only here, there are some like you that think it is just fine, others that is horrible, still others like me it is horrible with certain classes only. As said had no problem defending in story line village of frogs on trees with revenant and guardian, impossible to finish with mesmer and elementalist so far. Par of problem being majority of helping NPCs are dead and impossible to ress.

But it does not matter what you or me think, feel, … everyone can’t be happy, have learned this long ago. But Arenanet earnings will show if they did right or wrong with HOT. :-)

jpicard.3806:

After struggled for weeks, for me HOT is unplayable by casual players for majority of classes. Only one that can be soloed to some degree and to play personal story are revenant and guardian. I loved original Gw2, now I’m sorry I have spent money on HOT. They have ruined completely idea of original game. If you wish you play solo, if not, you group. Now is group only. And has nothing to do with LTP.

For now I’m done for long time again with Gw2, “playing” is actually not what should be, now it is just pure frustration.

no, HOT is unplayable for yourself not all casual players, your unwillingness to learn an encounter (which you have every right to do) has nothing to do with casual players as a demographic. Indeed most GW2 players are probably casual and the majority of players in all professions have completed the storylines i would guess going by how little noise there is about it in game. On top of all this, the extra HOT skills and gliding and masteries have made GW2 significantly easier.

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it

jpicard.3806:

Have read a lot on forums, not only here, there are some like you that think it is just fine, others that is horrible, still others like me it is horrible with certain classes only. As said had no problem defending in story line village of frogs on trees with revenant and guardian, impossible to finish with mesmer and elementalist so far. Par of problem being majority of helping NPCs are dead and impossible to ress.

But it does not matter what you or me think, feel, … everyone can’t be happy, have learned this long ago. But Arenanet earnings will show if they did right or wrong with HOT. :-)

I can see why you’d think HoT was hard to solo on an ele, but a mesmer? Mesmers are great in HoT, for me anyway. Those who know how to play their professions will, even eles can play hot. You do have to know your profession.

Mesmer is my the second profession I took all the way through HoT and the first profession I had to complete every zone.

battledrone.8315:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it

So the new definition of casual is that it’s someone who cannot solo HoT? Gotcha.

battledrone.8315:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it

They put in a new level cap, they’ll have a war on their hands. You think that’ll save the game? I"m guessing you haven’t seen the popular reaction to that.

You have no real evidence why HOT didn’t do as well as expected, except your own perception of it’s difficulty.

There were other issues besides difficulty that could have weighed in a lot more, including launch problems with character slots, the way timers and LFG work and the lack of tutorial for using them, and mostly the PR and word of mouth by angry people who didn’t like the grind. No one can say definitively there would be more people if HOT were easier.

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it

They put in a new level cap, they’ll have a war on their hands. You think that’ll save the game? I"m guessing you haven’t seen the popular reaction to that.

You have no real evidence why HOT didn’t do as well as expected, except your own perception of it’s difficulty.

There were other issues besides difficulty that could have weighed in a lot more, including launch problems with character slots, the way timers and LFG work and the lack of tutorial for using them, and mostly the PR and word of mouth by angry people who didn’t like the grind. No one can say definitively there would be more people if HOT were easier.

If HoT had been easier it would have been a ripoff (for me at least). Core tyria became way too easy at some point, which made me turn to PvP, even If I mostly enjoy pve maps and their associated events. Once HoT got released I played significantly less PvP. I mean we are talking about four maps. If the expansion was as easy as core tyria, it would simply not have worked well because the easy going levelling experience of core tyria only works because you have plenty of maps to discover imo. When they first spoke of the expansion, the first I heard was “we want to provide with HoT a challenging post 80 endgame content that core tyria lacks of”

battledrone.8315:

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore

I play, generally, less than an hour a day. Often this means logging in for dailies and not much else. I always choose the quickest and easiest dailies. Sometimes I don’t even finish my dailies.

I don’t run meta builds. Ever. I don’t have even one character outfitted in full ascended. Not counting jewelry, earned with laurels, I think I have a grand total of 4 pieces of ascended gear (and one of those is Caladbolg from the current events).

I don’t have my masteries maxed out. I don’t have a single crafting discipline about something like rank 20. I don’t PvP and ALWAYS get killed if I encounter an enemy player in WvW while doing dailies.

If you consider someone who spends more time fiddling around with dyes on their characters than actually playing content “hardcore” then you might want to reconsider your personal definition of the term.

If you consider someone who spends, on average, something like 20-30 minutes a day playing the game “hardcore” then you might want to reconsider your personal definition of the term.

I can’t help but think that casual is code for I can’t accomplish something. I have a guild full of casuals and most of them can make there way around HOT solo. Well not truly solo since there are people there.

But they’ve learned how to use LFG, which anyone can do. They’ve learned to use timer sites. They’ve learned to follow tags, or just find other players and hang with them.

It’s like Orr. I never soloed a temple but I never grouped for one either.

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because that’s not what everyone is saying. Or at least, it’s not what I’ve been saying.

I found it more difficult originally. I couldn’t move 5 steps without dying on a squish and even tankier toons had trouble.

However, while some concluded that meant HoT was too difficult to solo, I concluded it meant I needed to up my game. Which I did, letting go of some of my favorite builds/tactics.

I don’t think it’s fair to say that a game can’t evolve to the point where old builds won’t work as well. I think it is fair for new zones to present new challenges, even as they present new opportunities.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because that’s not what everyone is saying. Or at least, it’s not what I’ve been saying.

I found it more difficult originally. I couldn’t move 5 steps without dying on a squish and even tankier toons had trouble.

However, while some concluded that meant HoT was too difficult to solo, I concluded it meant I needed to up my game. Which I did, letting go of some of my favorite builds/tactics.

I don’t think it’s fair to say that a game can’t evolve to the point where old builds won’t work as well. I think it is fair for new zones to present new challenges, even as they present new opportunities.

This is what I’m seeing in this thread.

Player 1: Hot can’t be soloed.
Player 2: I can solo HoT.
Player 1: HoT can’t be soloed without meta builds.
Player 2: I solo HoT without meta builds.
Player 1: HoT can’t be soloed by casuals.

The bar keeps moving because people would rather defend their inability to play the content, rather than find a way to get good at or beat the content.

There are too many people, not just a few, that say HoT can be soloed. It doesn’t mean you can solo every single hero point, because you probably can’t. But then I can’t solo a Temple in Orr either.

There are ways to get stuff done in HOT if you’re will to adapt. If you’re not willing to adapt, obviously you will not be able to solo it.

But I remember a similar reaction to Eye of the North when it first came out. Before Eye of the North, the “open world” in Guild Wars 1 was relatively easy. Then Eye of the North came out and raptor groups that patrolled wrecked people. Ceratodon’s blew them up. It was a slaughter…for some people.

Some people learned how to cope and beat the area, and those people said it’s not that hard. That’s what I did. Other people avoided playing it because it was too hard.

The problem here is that the difficulty between the open world prior to HOT and HOT, if you haven’t played Living Story Season 2, or Fractals or Dungeons, is a big big step up and some people weren’t ready for it.

But saying I can’t solo it because I refuse to change my build to something that works, doesn’t to me feel like a valid argument. HoT is soloable if you’re willing to learn your profession and figure out how to beat it.

It represents a challenge for people who like challenge. It was exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

Vayne.8563:

It’s like Orr. I never soloed a temple but I never grouped for one either.

Yeah, well, I’ve never had to taxi to do a temple, either.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I don’t think it’s fair to say that a game can’t evolve to the point where old builds won’t work as well. I think it is fair for new zones to present new challenges, even as they present new opportunities.

Exactly. Otherwise the game will get stale and boring. Then there are two types of players, those who will change their playstyle and/or build and adapt to the new challenge and those who won’t and complain that it is difficult. Change the player, not the content.

It would also help immensely if anyone who is having trouble with the expansion actually took the time to say with what. If you are having trouble in a specific area or against specific mobs, there are many ways someone can help out. A vague “the expansion is too hard” offers no basis for a discussion at all, other than the inevitable response of “no it’s not”.

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it

They put in a new level cap, they’ll have a war on their hands. You think that’ll save the game? I"m guessing you haven’t seen the popular reaction to that.

You have no real evidence why HOT didn’t do as well as expected, except your own perception of it’s difficulty.

There were other issues besides difficulty that could have weighed in a lot more, including launch problems with character slots, the way timers and LFG work and the lack of tutorial for using them, and mostly the PR and word of mouth by angry people who didn’t like the grind. No one can say definitively there would be more people if HOT were easier.

newsflash, they already raised the level cap once, and no wars erupted over that
the first things they did after HoT launch was :
1. fire the boss
2. nerf it
does that sound like a successful launch to you?
youre right, no one can say it definitively , but all the clues point in that direction
you only have the same handful of hardcores to back you up

battledrone.8315:

2. nerf it

They didn’t nerf the difficulty of Heart of Thorns mobs at any point in time. They nerfed how the meta events work, making them require no participation before the final events started. The actual difficulty of the encounters is the same as at release.

That’s why this whole discussion on difficulty is pointless if you don’t provide context on what exactly you find difficult

Also, the level cap was 80 at release and was never raised, not even once.

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it

They put in a new level cap, they’ll have a war on their hands. You think that’ll save the game? I"m guessing you haven’t seen the popular reaction to that.

You have no real evidence why HOT didn’t do as well as expected, except your own perception of it’s difficulty.

There were other issues besides difficulty that could have weighed in a lot more, including launch problems with character slots, the way timers and LFG work and the lack of tutorial for using them, and mostly the PR and word of mouth by angry people who didn’t like the grind. No one can say definitively there would be more people if HOT were easier.

newsflash, they already raised the level cap once, and no wars erupted over that
the first things they did after HoT launch was :
1. fire the boss
2. nerf it
does that sound like a successful launch to you?
youre right, no one can say it definitively , but all the clues point in that direction
you only have the same handful of hardcores to back you up

How long have you been playing this game? The level cap has been level 80 since launch in 2012. It’s still level 80 today with no hints of ever changing.

maddoctor.2738:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I don’t think it’s fair to say that a game can’t evolve to the point where old builds won’t work as well. I think it is fair for new zones to present new challenges, even as they present new opportunities.

Exactly. Otherwise the game will get stale and boring. Then there are two types of players, those who will change their playstyle and/or build and adapt to the new challenge and those who won’t and complain that it is difficult. Change the player, not the content.

It would also help immensely if anyone who is having trouble with the expansion actually took the time to say with what. If you are having trouble in a specific area or against specific mobs, there are many ways someone can help out. A vague “the expansion is too hard” offers no basis for a discussion at all, other than the inevitable response of “no it’s not”.

because there really is no discussion needed, other than “i dont like it”
i dont like cheese(except melted), i have tried enough of them, to know that
telling me try another sort wont change that
or do you really want to tell another customer, what they should like?
you like HoT, i like Queensdale, there is no way we both can be happy on the same map

Ayrilana.1396:

battledrone.8315:

Vayne.8563:

battledrone.8315:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it

They put in a new level cap, they’ll have a war on their hands. You think that’ll save the game? I"m guessing you haven’t seen the popular reaction to that.

You have no real evidence why HOT didn’t do as well as expected, except your own perception of it’s difficulty.

There were other issues besides difficulty that could have weighed in a lot more, including launch problems with character slots, the way timers and LFG work and the lack of tutorial for using them, and mostly the PR and word of mouth by angry people who didn’t like the grind. No one can say definitively there would be more people if HOT were easier.

newsflash, they already raised the level cap once, and no wars erupted over that
the first things they did after HoT launch was :
1. fire the boss
2. nerf it
does that sound like a successful launch to you?
youre right, no one can say it definitively , but all the clues point in that direction
you only have the same handful of hardcores to back you up

How long have you been playing this game? The level cap has been level 80 since launch in 2012. It’s still level 80 today with no hints of ever changing.

wrong, it was 60 at launch
80 came around SW/DT AFAIR
i stand corrected, maybe it was because there was no 80 zones before that?
anyway, when character progression stops, players will start looking for other games,
so they need to reopen the levelling experience

^Incorrect, and a potion of mordrem slaying would make me happy

Ayrilana.1396:

battledrone.8315:

Ayrilana.1396:

battledrone.8315:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it

So the new definition of casual is that it’s someone who cannot solo HoT? Gotcha.

youre welcome , next time just use a dictionary instead
semantics is one thing, but it is hard to fight reality in the long term, yes?
and reality only points in one direction, despite your attempts to muddy the waters

My post was actually sarcastic. Just because someone can solo HoT doesn’t mean that they’re casual. You can argue it’s all semantics but you’re missing the term in a way to defend your argument that there’s something inherently wrong with the HoT maps as they’re not solo friendly.

HoT has the convenience of a korean F2P grinder coupled with the obscurity of bigfoot
compared to the rest of tyria, it was almost like a new game
many of us didnt want a new game..we just wanted more like queensdale
a good mmo has a little of everything, but they need a ton of players to pay for it all
more players=more money= more content
that is the simple formula for WoWs success
and dont tell me to get back to WoW, after thousands of hours im simply burned out on that

battledrone.8315:

or do you really want to tell another customer, what they should like?

No, but this is far more complex than liking the taste of cheese.

You should really check this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback-1/first#post6372017 and next time try to give constructive feedback. “I don’t like it” is not constructive at all, in fact it’s useless and doesn’t help anyone. If you dislike the expansion say why and be as detailed as possible, that’s the ONLY way the developers can actually make changes. “I don’t like it” isn’t enough information for the developers to work on, nor something that can start and promote a valuable discussion.

battledrone.8315:

i stand corrected, maybe it was because there was no 80 zones before that?

No there was level 80 content at release. Cursed Shore is an entire zone only for level 80s, other zones have parts for level 80 characters. There are dungeon paths for level 80 players too.

battledrone.8315:

we just wanted more like queensdale

I wonder who are these “we” you are talking about here. Queensdale, the zone that has mobs for fresh characters without unlocked their full potential… You can always just stay there and enjoy your time afk killing the mobs while everyone else is having fun in more exciting parts of the game.

Vayne.8563:

I can’t help but think that casual is code for I can’t accomplish something.

Close enough. In general it’s simply code for bad player. Some use it to simply refer to time played, but someone only playing a few hours a week isn’t generally going to be very good.

maddoctor.2738:

They didn’t nerf the difficulty of Heart of Thorns mobs at any point in time. They nerfed how the meta events work, making them require no participation before the final events started. The actual difficulty of the encounters is the same as at release.

As a sample, the damage of snipers was cut in half during beta. After launch, bladedancers had their fan shot capped to a single hit and the damage of their stun combo reduced, both of which were previously instant kills. Some encounters were also toned down by changing what spawned.

i know where this is going, i have seen it in other games before.
SWTOR , DCUO, wildstar…all big games that lost so much momentum, because they failed to connect with the casual crowd
1. casual players prefer character and account progression over player progression
2.we will play the content we like, and leave, BUT IF IT IS GOOD ENOUGH , WE WILL RETURN LATER FOR MORE
3. dont give me that “NCsoft is for gamers”, they blew that policy, when they started selling millions of boxes

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

It’s like Orr. I never soloed a temple but I never grouped for one either.

Yeah, well, I’ve never had to taxi to do a temple, either.

Right, there’s no way to know if a Temple is up at all. You have to stand around and wait. Hope the event is up. If it’s not up wait for it to come up. You can’t accurately track a temple either.

You think that’s better somehow?

You want to do the Silverwastes without waiting 40 minutes, jump into LFG. You think you’re going to get triple trouble without taxiing in somewhere. Taxis have been in the game for years.

I’m really not sure what this total aversion to taxiing is.

battledrone.8315:

Ayrilana.1396:

battledrone.8315:

Ayrilana.1396:

battledrone.8315:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it

So the new definition of casual is that it’s someone who cannot solo HoT? Gotcha.

youre welcome , next time just use a dictionary instead
semantics is one thing, but it is hard to fight reality in the long term, yes?
and reality only points in one direction, despite your attempts to muddy the waters

My post was actually sarcastic. Just because someone can solo HoT doesn’t mean that they’re casual. You can argue it’s all semantics but you’re missing the term in a way to defend your argument that there’s something inherently wrong with the HoT maps as they’re not solo friendly.

HoT has the convenience of a korean F2P grinder coupled with the obscurity of bigfoot
compared to the rest of tyria, it was almost like a new game
many of us didnt want a new game..we just wanted more like queensdale
a good mmo has a little of everything, but they need a ton of players to pay for it all
more players=more money= more content
that is the simple formula for WoWs success
and dont tell me to get back to WoW, after thousands of hours im simply burned out on that

It was 80 at launch and we had level 80 zones at launch. Cursed Shore has been in the game at launch since level 80. We’ve never had a level cap increase. We’ve always had level 80 zones.

Vayne.8563:

I’m really not sure what this total aversion to taxiing is.

Eh, to be fair, I don’t like to taxi, either. I prefer to warp into a zone, do whatever I came to do (whether goal-oriented or without any specific ideas), and move on. At launch and for months afterward, we could do that. However, that hasn’t been mathematically realistic since probably late 2013.

Once a Zone is full enough for the meta (or world boss etc)…
-> It attracts taxi-using players.
-> It reaches the soft cap.
-> New players entering the zone are dropped in new instances.
-> The taxi-using among them move to the first map, which becomes hard capped.
-> Players who don’t taxi are extremely like to end up in seemingly-empty zones.

So regardless of whether we prefer LFG or prefer to find our events more organically, in this game, it’s an essential tool. Those who use it will be playing a different sort of game than those who don’t, which is why we end up having some of these “there’s no one there” | “yes, there are people there” conversations.

battledrone.8315:

Ayrilana.1396:

battledrone.8315:

Ayrilana.1396:

battledrone.8315:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it

So the new definition of casual is that it’s someone who cannot solo HoT? Gotcha.

youre welcome , next time just use a dictionary instead
semantics is one thing, but it is hard to fight reality in the long term, yes?
and reality only points in one direction, despite your attempts to muddy the waters

My post was actually sarcastic. Just because someone can solo HoT doesn’t mean that they’re casual. You can argue it’s all semantics but you’re missing the term in a way to defend your argument that there’s something inherently wrong with the HoT maps as they’re not solo friendly.

HoT has the convenience of a korean F2P grinder coupled with the obscurity of bigfoot
compared to the rest of tyria, it was almost like a new game
many of us didnt want a new game..we just wanted more like queensdale
a good mmo has a little of everything, but they need a ton of players to pay for it all
more players=more money= more content
that is the simple formula for WoWs success
and dont tell me to get back to WoW, after thousands of hours im simply burned out on that

Core Tyria had really no form of challenge as the enemies had pretty much no mechanics. HoT added this so by your statement this makes GW2 a good MMO. It has a little bit of everything. Something for those that you deem casual players and something for those that you seem hardcore players.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Vayne.8563:

I’m really not sure what this total aversion to taxiing is.

Eh, to be fair, I don’t like to taxi, either. I prefer to warp into a zone, do whatever I came to do (whether goal-oriented or without any specific ideas), and move on. At launch and for months afterward, we could do that. However, that hasn’t been mathematically realistic since probably late 2013.

Once a Zone is full enough for the meta (or world boss etc)…
-> It attracts taxi-using players.
-> It reaches the soft cap.
-> New players entering the zone are dropped in new instances.
-> The taxi-using among them move to the first map, which becomes hard capped.
-> Players who don’t taxi are extremely like to end up in seemingly-empty zones.

So regardless of whether we prefer LFG or prefer to find our events more organically, in this game, it’s an essential tool. Those who use it will be playing a different sort of game than those who don’t, which is why we end up having some of these “there’s no one there” | “yes, there are people there” conversations.

There’s a difference between not preferring something and total aversion.

There have been people on these forums who refuse to use LFG and say that the situation we have isn’t good enough, and then complain they can’t do content. To me, that’s like shooting yourself in the foot. The solution exists, and while it’s not necessarily optimal, it’s not the end of the world either.

Some people don’t use timers, as well, thinking it breaks their immersion to leave the game, or look at a website.

Vayne.8563:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Vayne.8563:

I’m really not sure what this total aversion to taxiing is.

Eh, to be fair, I don’t like to taxi, either. I prefer to warp into a zone, do whatever I came to do (whether goal-oriented or without any specific ideas), and move on. At launch and for months afterward, we could do that. However, that hasn’t been mathematically realistic since probably late 2013.

Once a Zone is full enough for the meta (or world boss etc)…
-> It attracts taxi-using players.
-> It reaches the soft cap.
-> New players entering the zone are dropped in new instances.
-> The taxi-using among them move to the first map, which becomes hard capped.
-> Players who don’t taxi are extremely like to end up in seemingly-empty zones.

So regardless of whether we prefer LFG or prefer to find our events more organically, in this game, it’s an essential tool. Those who use it will be playing a different sort of game than those who don’t, which is why we end up having some of these “there’s no one there” | “yes, there are people there” conversations.

There’s a difference between not preferring something and total aversion.

There have been people on these forums who refuse to use LFG and say that the situation we have isn’t good enough, and then complain they can’t do content. To me, that’s like shooting yourself in the foot. The solution exists, and while it’s not necessarily optimal, it’s not the end of the world either.

Some people don’t use timers, as well, thinking it breaks their immersion to leave the game, or look at a website.

I wonder how many of those players go online to use guides…

Ashen.2907:

battledrone.8315:

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore

I play, generally, less than an hour a day. Often this means logging in for dailies and not much else. I always choose the quickest and easiest dailies. Sometimes I don’t even finish my dailies.

I don’t run meta builds. Ever. I don’t have even one character outfitted in full ascended. Not counting jewelry, earned with laurels, I think I have a grand total of 4 pieces of ascended gear (and one of those is Caladbolg from the current events).

I don’t have my masteries maxed out. I don’t have a single crafting discipline about something like rank 20. I don’t PvP and ALWAYS get killed if I encounter an enemy player in WvW while doing dailies.

If you consider someone who spends more time fiddling around with dyes on their characters than actually playing content “hardcore” then you might want to reconsider your personal definition of the term.

If you consider someone who spends, on average, something like 20-30 minutes a day playing the game “hardcore” then you might want to reconsider your personal definition of the term.

You don’t believe that some people have an inherent “knack” for certain things? Or maybe you have played a similar game or games such as platformers that give you skills that make HoT easier for you even though you don’t spend a lot of time / effort in GW2?

Being able to do something that others find difficult isn’t always because you spent a lot of time / effort at it.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because that’s not what everyone is saying.

Clearly my post isn’t directed to those people who are not saying what I’m objecting to

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Once a Zone is full enough for the meta (or world boss etc)…
-> It attracts taxi-using players.
-> It reaches the soft cap.
-> New players entering the zone are dropped in new instances.
-> The taxi-using among them move to the first map, which becomes hard capped.
-> Players who don’t taxi are extremely like to end up in seemingly-empty zones.

So regardless of whether we prefer LFG or prefer to find our events more organically, in this game, it’s an essential tool. Those who use it will be playing a different sort of game than those who don’t, which is why we end up having some of these “there’s no one there” | “yes, there are people there” conversations.

Why is it that Anet doesn’t seem to care about this? Why didn’t they predict this and build some kind of notification so that new players know why the map is empty and how to find maps that have other people? The fact that so many people ask about empty maps, un-completeable events, and being pushed out of maps when they are just about to complete something should have prompted Anet to do something a year ago.

battledrone.8315:

i know where this is going, i have seen it in other games before.
SWTOR , DCUO, wildstar…all big games that lost so much momentum, because they failed to connect with the casual crowd
1. casual players prefer character and account progression over player progression
2.we will play the content we like, and leave, BUT IF IT IS GOOD ENOUGH , WE WILL RETURN LATER FOR MORE
3. dont give me that “NCsoft is for gamers”, they blew that policy, when they started selling millions of boxes

SW:TOR is a good example of how not to appeal to casuals. The game has made a number of changes over the years that Bioware specifically stated where to make the game more casual friendly, yet the game has been consistently declining since it’s launch.
SW:TOR made the mistake of assuming that just making everything easier was how you attract casuals. Whether a game is casual friendly or not is determined by accessibility not difficulty.

Djinn.9245:

Why is it that Anet doesn’t seem to care about this? Why didn’t they predict this and build some kind of notification so that new players know why the map is empty and how to find maps that have other people?

Of course ArenaNet cares. Earnings are down 25% compared to the year prior to HoT’s announcement. They simply don’t have the resources to waste and even if they did, it’s far too late to matter. They’re better off forgetting HoT and focusing on the next expansion, as that’ll actually sell the game.

Empty maps are partially a player created problem due to the use of LFG. Every map would be at least half full if people didn’t do it. Megaservers are the other problem, since they should simply fill maps rather than prioritizing friends/guilds/worlds. To complete HoT’s metas however, you truly only need around 20 people, which is around 20-25% of the map, but that also means you can’t play casually, hence the LFG zerg.

Djinn.9245:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Once a Zone is full enough for the meta (or world boss etc)…
-> It attracts taxi-using players.
-> It reaches the soft cap.
-> New players entering the zone are dropped in new instances.
-> The taxi-using among them move to the first map, which becomes hard capped.
-> Players who don’t taxi are extremely like to end up in seemingly-empty zones.

So regardless of whether we prefer LFG or prefer to find our events more organically, in this game, it’s an essential tool. Those who use it will be playing a different sort of game than those who don’t, which is why we end up having some of these “there’s no one there” | “yes, there are people there” conversations.

Why is it that Anet doesn’t seem to care about this? Why didn’t they predict this and build some kind of notification so that new players know why the map is empty and how to find maps that have other people? The fact that so many people ask about empty maps, un-completeable events, and being pushed out of maps when they are just about to complete something should have prompted Anet to do something a year ago.

Because the underlying issue is math, not tech. Getting people to Taxis is a social problem, which also cannot be resolved by tech.

I agree that in principle ANet could do a lot more to teach people basic mechanics. In this case, I’m not at all sure what sort of tutorial they could offer that would convince people to use LFG. In this very thread, we see people hostile to the very idea.

[long digression] For what it’s worth, I’m playing BDO right now and there are some very good tutorials, none of which helped me for certain mechanics. Inventory management there makes this game’s version look convenient and simple, but there are some good (free) work-arounds, one of which is literally shouted by the ‘storage’ NPC in most towns — it made no sense to me, because it involved 4-5 other mechanics that I hadn’t learned/understood yet, so I ignored it. It wasn’t until I was already using the work-around that I finally made sense of what the NPCs were telling me. [end long digression]

In other words, sometimes the problem is conceptual and it can’t be communicated via the game to most people; they have to learn via word of mouth.

So it’s perfectly fine for new players asking why a map is empty, just as it’s fine for people to ask about other initially-confusing mechanics, such as choosing stats, choosing builds, learning to glide, etc.

There’s only a problem if the people who ask aren’t willing or able to use the tools at hand.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Because the underlying issue is math, not tech. Getting people to Taxis is a social problem, which also cannot be resolved by tech.

I don’t entirely agree: I don’t think people particularly care to search for a way to get together to do the meta, but I also don’t think they care about not joining the same map as a general rule of thumb.

So, giving a nudge in the direction of grouping and I’m pretty sure most people would follow that. (Then complain about the loss of map participation, but I guess that’s probably solvable too…)

Technology can’t make people group up, but it sure can make it easier.

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

battledrone.8315:

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore

I play, generally, less than an hour a day. Often this means logging in for dailies and not much else. I always choose the quickest and easiest dailies. Sometimes I don’t even finish my dailies.

I don’t run meta builds. Ever. I don’t have even one character outfitted in full ascended. Not counting jewelry, earned with laurels, I think I have a grand total of 4 pieces of ascended gear (and one of those is Caladbolg from the current events).

I don’t have my masteries maxed out. I don’t have a single crafting discipline about something like rank 20. I don’t PvP and ALWAYS get killed if I encounter an enemy player in WvW while doing dailies.

If you consider someone who spends more time fiddling around with dyes on their characters than actually playing content “hardcore” then you might want to reconsider your personal definition of the term.

If you consider someone who spends, on average, something like 20-30 minutes a day playing the game “hardcore” then you might want to reconsider your personal definition of the term.

You don’t believe that some people have an inherent “knack” for certain things? Or maybe you have played a similar game or games such as platformers that give you skills that make HoT easier for you even though you don’t spend a lot of time / effort in GW2?

Being able to do something that others find difficult isn’t always because you spent a lot of time / effort at it.

I was responding to someone who claimed that I was a hardcore player. Me, someone who doesnt play dungeons, PvP, raids, doesnt optimize character builds or equipment, doesnt play for extended sessions, or even every day, often only logs in to do dailies…

Having a supposed “knack” for not dying (usually) when playing in a particular area of the game does not make one a hardcore player IMO.

The real point to me is that this thread is called hot is unsoloable, which is very very different from saying I can’t solo HoT. That’s a very different statement.

You need to have knowledge of your class and some small degree of skill (yes, small) to solo HoT. Again not every hero point, but to get around solo and to get to where people are doing things. And it’s not intuitive, it takes time to learn.

There are always people that will start a book find it not interesting and close it before the first chapter, but some books are fantastic if you stay with them. Many people have felt that about HOT. The more you play it the better you get.

Generally I’ve found the people who like it least aren’t people who can’t play it. They’re people who can’t play it but don’t want to because all they want to do is get their mastery points so they can play the game, rather than playing the game to get their mastery points.

HoT has entertaining and complex event chains. It has interesting dynamics. It has maps that make you think and not everyone is going to like that. That why AB is so good for most people. It’s less twisted.

But why shouldn’t this game have a couple of zones that are more complex?

Ayrilana.1396:

battledrone.8315:

Ayrilana.1396:

battledrone.8315:

Ayrilana.1396:

battledrone.8315:

Ashen.2907:

Djinn.9245:

I don’t understand why the same group of people in this thread and other difficulty threads insist over and over that HoT is not actually difficult and that it is solo-able.

Those of us who have trouble know whether we are able to solo the content and know whether or not we are having difficulty with it. BY DEFINITION if players are finding it difficult, it IS IN FACT difficult for those players. No amount of saying that it isn’t actually difficult will change how WE experience it.

Because all too often those claiming that it is not soloable claim to be speaking for “casual” players as a group rather than just themselves.

I dont doubt that some (casual) players cannot solo in HoT, but I also know for a fact that others can.

If someone says, “I cannot solo in HoT,” my inclination is to try to help them.

When someone says that casuals (of which I am one) cannot solo in HoT, I contest their position because they are making claims about me, my friends, and untold numbers of other people that they do not know. If one chooses to claim to speak for me, expect me to respond if the claims are inaccurate.

the fact, that you can, and will solo HoT makes you hardcore
if it was casual, you can bet , that more people would have liked it
HoT hurt this game , it polarized the playerbase, and caused many of the vets to leave
dont believe me? look at the numbers
“but its to be expected as the game gets older”..yea..but some older games have more players
they can still save it..new races, new level cap, new classes
but they have to work on the bread&butter content to do it

So the new definition of casual is that it’s someone who cannot solo HoT? Gotcha.

youre welcome , next time just use a dictionary instead
semantics is one thing, but it is hard to fight reality in the long term, yes?
and reality only points in one direction, despite your attempts to muddy the waters

My post was actually sarcastic. Just because someone can solo HoT doesn’t mean that they’re casual. You can argue it’s all semantics but you’re missing the term in a way to defend your argument that there’s something inherently wrong with the HoT maps as they’re not solo friendly.

HoT has the convenience of a korean F2P grinder coupled with the obscurity of bigfoot
compared to the rest of tyria, it was almost like a new game
many of us didnt want a new game..we just wanted more like queensdale
a good mmo has a little of everything, but they need a ton of players to pay for it all
more players=more money= more content
that is the simple formula for WoWs success
and dont tell me to get back to WoW, after thousands of hours im simply burned out on that

Core Tyria had really no form of challenge as the enemies had pretty much no mechanics. HoT added this so by your statement this makes GW2 a good MMO. It has a little bit of everything. Something for those that you deem casual players and something for those that you seem hardcore players.

why did we have champ trains running around and killing bosses in every zone? did they zerg up for nothing?and the marionette thing wasnt challenging?it killed me plenty of times, EVEN WHEN I WASNT DOING IT.

Crinn.7864:

battledrone.8315:

i know where this is going, i have seen it in other games before.
SWTOR , DCUO, wildstar…all big games that lost so much momentum, because they failed to connect with the casual crowd
1. casual players prefer character and account progression over player progression
2.we will play the content we like, and leave, BUT IF IT IS GOOD ENOUGH , WE WILL RETURN LATER FOR MORE
3. dont give me that “NCsoft is for gamers”, they blew that policy, when they started selling millions of boxes

SW:TOR is a good example of how not to appeal to casuals. The game has made a number of changes over the years that Bioware specifically stated where to make the game more casual friendly, yet the game has been consistently declining since it’s launch.
SW:TOR made the mistake of assuming that just making everything easier was how you attract casuals. Whether a game is casual friendly or not is determined by accessibility not difficulty.

if they had launched with the current difficulty, they would had kept a much larger part of the initial wave of players
their failure has several reasons..too much emphasis on story, very poor space part,
poor immersion etc
but they tanked so fast, that they had almost no time to react
i played at launch, and i gave them the same warnings, as i give you
im actually playing a bit of it now, they have nerfed it down to WoW level
the stories are clearly the best part…didnt save them
no matter where i go there, im always on a MAP…never in a WORLD