Angel McCoy Interview

Angel McCoy Interview

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

This is like saying that a horse is only a horse if it has a rider. Yes, in some settings, the power of a god comes through having worshippers. We have no idea if that is the case in this one. In fact, evidence seems to point otherwise (in that each god has a core of power, tied to a specific concept, that has made them a god).

More like that a teacher is only a teacher when they have students, or perhaps that a horse is only a conveyance when it has a rider. Again, I’ll repeat, I explicitly said that the Tyrian gods do NOT seem to gain power from their worshippers, or at least that they possess a great deal of it without them, but they are not gods unless they are worshipped, they are merely beings of great power.

After all, if we found a horse that did not have a feature normally associated with equinity – maybe the horse is lame and isn’t capable of galloping – this does not stop it from being a horse.

But a “god” is not a species, it is a much more catch-all term for a state of being.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

I don’t think there is a single religion in the world that would agree with you. They would all say that their gods are gods, regardless of whether they’re worshiped or not – and some have had gods that are regarded as dark gods that are not (or at least, should not be) worshiped.

The term “god” has been applied to them by the people of Tyria, both those who worship them and they do not. Their definition and interpretation is what matters. Not yours.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

Note, all this is sanctioned by Ree and Jeff. They too think this is all ok.

o.0

Is that a positive or negative statement?

That’s up to anyone to decide, but personally I think positive. At least we know they still have their hands on the lore and know what’s up despite the other writers and lore devs.

Yeah, it could be considered subjective I guess. Personally I have the opposite view. Imo, those two are primarily responsible for the vast amounts of disconnect between GW1 & 2. Those two were deeply entrenched in the transitional phase, and are still very key players in everything lore related. And it’s a pretty safe bet to say nothing gets printed now without their approval, or at least their tacit acceptance. So really, most of these issues a lot of us have with the lore are on them, not the niche writers.

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

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Posted by: mexay.3902

mexay.3902

I’d just like to point out my post where I brought up how kittened and lore-breaking this interview is, stating that Angel McDouble is ruining the game’s lore, saying she shouldn’t be in her position, was deleted

I’d also like to point out that there is nothing wrong with criticizing someone’s work. If any part of ArenaNet does a bad job, it is our job to say so. This includes writing fan-fiction level drivel that this person dares to call lore.

Sure, delete this too, it isn’t going to stop me from posting again. You can’t just keep deleting and hiding messages just because they aren’t rainbows and smiles. We as players are often going to say harsh, but often well deserved, things.

Sure, to begin with my post was maybe a little rude, but someone pointed that out and I changed it. Removing a post and then punishing a person just because you do not like having your employees criticized is really bad practice. It’s not the first time this has happened and wont be the last.

I wont go on about it, as there are far more established players within the lore community taking on the issue in a better way and directly responding to it (see page 3).

My opinion, however, still stands. Angel McCoy has no place writing lore for the Guild Wars Multiverse in the same way I have no place doing open heart surgery. I know nothing about it and I’m only going to mess it up to the point of no return.

Please ArenaNet, start hiring better lore staff. Less DeviantArt level crap and more of what was so amazing in Guild Wars 1.

noice

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

^ I suggest you read the forum rules before posting, since they quite clearly states that shout-outs to specific employees are not allowed.

As for the last part you do know that Angel WAS with the GW1 lore-team as well, right?

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

^ I suggest you read the forum rules before posting, since they quite clearly states that shout-outs to specific employees are not allowed.

As for the last part you do know that Angel WAS with the GW1 lore-team as well, right?

Angel was brought into the fold in 2007. Nightfall was basically wrapped up, and the plans for GW2 were already being discussed. Eye of the North was the transitional bridge between the two games and shouldn’t really be considered GW1 proper.

So, technically you’re right. Realistically though, not so much.

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

Angel was brought into the fold in 2007. Nightfall was basically wrapped up, and the plans for GW2 were already being discussed. Eye of the North was the transitional bridge between the two games and shouldn’t really be considered GW1 proper.

So, technically you’re right. Realistically though, not so much.

And yet I have seen quite a few people talking about how awesome Guild Wars: Beyond was, and it is quite likely that she was doing parts of that.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

Angel was brought into the fold in 2007. Nightfall was basically wrapped up, and the plans for GW2 were already being discussed. Eye of the North was the transitional bridge between the two games and shouldn’t really be considered GW1 proper.

So, technically you’re right. Realistically though, not so much.

And yet I have seen quite a few people talking about how awesome Guild Wars: Beyond was, and it is quite likely that she was doing parts of that.

WiK was decent. Kind of watered down the Mantle and Mursaat by making them look like common bandits, but the last mission “Defend LA” was a really fun one to play.

HotN was not very good. It’s just a really long emo-journey through the eyes of Kieran where he learns to “grow up and be a big boy” or something similar. It’s for children really. Oh and him and Gwen get married. /rollseyes

WoC I didn’t play, so can’t comment on. :/

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

The problem with Hearts of the North wasn’t the concept or the story, it was that the content at its base was pure character development, and that’s a field that neither GW1 nor 2 did well in. Given the mechanics and scope of the games, I’m not sure it’s something that they can do well in. Most of the time their attempts just create huge backlash against the character.

That said, the follow-up did specify that Angel worked on GW2. The only GW1 project it mentioned was the shelved atlas.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

And yet I have seen quite a few people talking about how awesome Guild Wars: Beyond was, and it is quite likely that she was doing parts of that.

A friend of mine who went to PAX said she was told the folks working on the Living Story did War in Kryta.

Winds of Change and Hearts of the North was made primarily if not solely by the Live Team.

Honestly, War in Kryta was rather flat and ignored a lot of potential. It also felt like it made the White Mantle into what most GW2 villains are: “hurr hurr kill kitten destroy!”

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Narcemus.1348

Narcemus.1348

I think the main reason I found myself enjoying War in Kryta is because I allowed myself to become swept up in the hype. I checked the websites daily for updates from Murro and waited daily for new bounties and such, anything to progress the story. I think this was another case of the out of game content being somewhat better than the content found within the game.

I thought hearts of the north was good for what it was intended to be, a transition. There wasn’t a big plot spoiler planned for it, it was a scenario where we knew A and C and we were just watching as B occurred.

Winds of Change, I thought, was spectacular (prolly doesn’t help that anything Factions related automatically gets 5 stars in my book… a bit biased). Yes, the first portion was slow, kill all afflicted, kill all afflicted, kill all afflicted, you get the idea. But what I found great about it was once you killed all the afllicted… THEY WERE GONE! And once the rest of the story filled in it was something I could really invest myself in. Was it perfect, heck no, but it was what I would consider some of the most top grade stuff ArenaNet has done.

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Posted by: Mr Mango.3504

Mr Mango.3504

I think the problems highlighted with this interview are more problematic for lore than Scarlet is. Angel responded but evidently could use a more thorough screening process I think.

I’m Mango. Fight on!

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Posted by: Zoltreez.6435

Zoltreez.6435

funny how we need to go to the forums read 3566 post to finde something important and major about the lore of the GAME its nonexistent inside the game.

-Stellaris
-Total War: Warhammer
-Guild Wars 2

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Posted by: sierras.6297

sierras.6297

There are a few things I would like to touch on. If the dragons (assuming it implies elder dragons) balance the worlds magic, would that mean their return signifies that magic is too rampant? Thus they consume magic, as Gohr scientifically verified in the ashram story line, but they would have to stop at some point or magic would be gone. So in a way Gohr is right and wrong which puts a flaw in the priories work as they have come to the same conclusion. This could be very interesting in the future if one of the elder dragons is unstoppable.

The next thing is that it was previously said the dragons intent was not evil but their process is or seems like it. However, we see that in only Zhaitan, Kralkatoric, Jormag, and Primordus. It is notable that each desires something, Zhaitan immortality, Jormag power, Primordus destruction, and kralkatoric perfection. The underwater dragon and the 6th mystery dragon we know not. But if you take each of those attributes, each implies some sort of fight. You need some sort of destruction for immortality, or power, especially destruction, and to even for perfection to an extent. However it is possible the next two elder dragons could not be so evil. There is even a theory that the 6th elder dragon is a forest dragon and the forest dragon’s general the pale tree. If this is so, is it possible that Bubbles minions could be helpful not hindering, as the sylvari would be servants of the forest dragon.

Also, if the dragons are the regulators of magic, and they are killed off, what would happen to the lay lines. If an unprecedented amount of magic flowed through them is it possible that they would collapse? Erupt? Begin to leak so much energy that the land becomes mutated with the raw magic essence?

Also, if Zhaitan is destroyed, and any other elder dragon is destroyed, would this not upset the balance of nature sense they are nature? How could the destruction of the ice dragon not have a major influence on the entire northern region of Tyria. This seems to be very odd to me as the landscape seems to be shaped to the attributes of the dragon that slept there had. Could it be that their presence alters the landscape to accommodate to their own natural forces, such as Jormag freezing the north, or Zhaitan killing Orr, or the desolation of Cantha into a desert wasteland by kralkatoric. One last thing on the dragons is if they are a force of nature, will they be able to be reborn as nature cannot really be destroyed so long as it’s core is there. I mean, we killed Zhaitab, but there are still dead people, and we don’t see the gods returning to the men like people thought.

Edit: Cut that part out.

Oscuro Sombra~lv. 80 Thief|Oscuro Uno~lv. 80 Necro|
Oscuro Tanque~lv. 80 Guardian|
[RaW] Kaineng

(edited by sierras.6297)

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Posted by: FlamingFoxx.1305

FlamingFoxx.1305

^— The Gods are not weak, the fight against Zhaitan was a much larger process than just that end battle and there was a lot that went in to discovering ways to weaken him so that he could be defeated. In GW1 we fought Abaddon and it was no mean feat… So the Gods are definitely not weak.

I would recommend scrapping the ‘pale tree is a champion of the jungle dragon’ theory because it’s ridiculous

As to the bit you mention at the beginning, the dragons have a cycle of awakening and I’m pretty sure that the dates were calculable, so it’s not like they awakened because magic was out of balance in the world.

Also I’m wondering if you play in a different language version of GW2 because “Gohr” and “Ashram” aren’t things from the English version of the game?

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Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

As to the bit you mention at the beginning, the dragons have a cycle of awakening and I’m pretty sure that the dates were calculable, so it’s not like they awakened because magic was out of balance in the world.

Just addressing this bit, the dates may be calculable for the dragon awakening and magic can still be out of balance if the rate of magic entering the world is steady. Whether constant or exponential. As long as there is a specific point at which the world is considered “out of balance”.

In fact, that calculation may well be rooted in the rate of magic entering Tyria compared to the point that the amount of magic is enough to awaken the ED’s.

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Posted by: sierras.6297

sierras.6297

^

Also I’m wondering if you play in a different language version of GW2 because “Gohr” and “Ashram” aren’t things from the English version of the game?

Ashram is an autocorrect for Asura. Not sure why it did that. Also, Gohr is in the level 20 story line when choosing your order. His research proves the dragons are absorbing magic, or “eat” it. He simply doesn’t know why, and says it if you follow the order of whispers.

Also, Dustfinger proves a very good point. Magic may enter Tyria at a constant rate, or an exponentially increasing rate, meaning the elder dragons may awaken at a certaint level of magic contamination in their respective region. This would explain why Zhaitan was the first to awaken, with Orr being the center of human of magic, or one of them. Also, if magic is exerted at a changing rate, and people start drawing on magic at an increasing rate, is it possible that the EDs could start awakening faster and faster?

Oscuro Sombra~lv. 80 Thief|Oscuro Uno~lv. 80 Necro|
Oscuro Tanque~lv. 80 Guardian|
[RaW] Kaineng

(edited by sierras.6297)

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Posted by: Maethor.2810

Maethor.2810

The reason Gohr wasn’t recognized, I think is because we know the name to be spelled Gorr.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Professor_Gorr

~Signe Grimsdottir | Wynne Everheart | Magiere Massing~
The Archivist’s Sanctum [Lore] – Just Us Grown-Ups [JUGS]

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Posted by: sierras.6297

sierras.6297

^Thanks, I spelt it wrong^

Oscuro Sombra~lv. 80 Thief|Oscuro Uno~lv. 80 Necro|
Oscuro Tanque~lv. 80 Guardian|
[RaW] Kaineng

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

The next thing is that it was previously said the dragons intent was not evil but their process is or seems like it.

This was not said, actually.

It is notable that each desires something, Zhaitan immortality, Jormag power, Primordus destruction, and kralkatoric perfection.

That is just a fan’s theory. One I was at least among those to first introduce. It is far from proven fact that they actually desire such. Even then, you way over-simplify it. The theory is:

Zhaitan desires immortality through undeath.
Primordus seeks to wipe out living beings.
Jormag wants a world based on survival of the fittest and offers power to those who desires it.
Kralkatorrik wants to gain/become everything – a form of greed and, to an extent, perfection.

You need some sort of destruction for immortality, or power, especially destruction, and to even for perfection to an extent.

Eh, you don’t really need any form of conflict for immortality, not even “immortality through undeath.”

There is even a theory that the 6th elder dragon is a forest dragon and the forest dragon’s general the pale tree. If this is so, is it possible that Bubbles minions could be helpful not hindering, as the sylvari would be servants of the forest dragon.

The theory about the Pale Tree is practically debunked. Not outright and the only arguments against what debunks it – Malyck and sylvari’s immunity to corruption – are extremely flimsy. What is most likely to be Mordremoth’s minions – if we have witnessed any of it in-game – is the Wychmire Swamp meta creatures, which are by far hostile. And the DSD’s minions are said to be hostile to, having pushed the quaggan, krait, karka, and largos out of their homelands.

Also, if Zhaitan is destroyed, and any other elder dragon is destroyed, would this not upset the balance of nature sense they are nature?

I would like to clarify something about this:

The Elder Dragons are as much a part of nature as the wildlife. They feed on magic and exude it, but even if they are mandatory for the ecosystem to survive they are no more a part of nature than bees who help pollinate flowers. For example, if bees die out then plants and even certain animals will become at risk (at least I believe that’s the case).

This seems to be very odd to me as the landscape seems to be shaped to the attributes of the dragon that slept there had.

Hardly. Primordus was underground, which was not really magma filled – his immediate chamber was, but not much past that. Kralkatorrik was no where near crystals in his hibernation in what is currently called the Blood Legion Homelands. And Orr was once a verdant fertile place, hardly the swamp-and-decay feel of his corruption.

the desolation of Cantha into a desert wasteland by kralkatoric.

Elona, you mean. However, Kralkatorrik slept to the north of Ascalon, not in the Desolation which is south of his current position – he’s never been to the Desolation since its forming by the Six Gods. A side note: last time Kralkatorrik was awake, the Crystal Desert was an in-land sea.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: DarksunG.9537

DarksunG.9537

Angel McCoy, Narrative Designer

-snip-
I wish I could answer each of your questions and concerns, but the reality is that I need to work on the next GW2 Living World release. We’re cruising at 200mph on these releases (to quote Stephen Clarke-Willson). I hope this explanation of our lore philosophy and where our thinking is will help you when you go back and review the pieces of your discussion. Thank you again for your passion! Know that we do pay attention, even if we can’t always take the time to respond to forum discussions like this.

Well, thanks for responding, but what you said doesn’t really change anything people had issues with. You have been changing lore to suit new stories that, as far as I can see, are not as successful as the old ones.
Saying “you didn’t know the whole story because people lie & are mistaken in real life” is meaningless in a fictional story. There was little to indicate that the lore in GW1 was “a human point of view” until you wanted to start veering it this way or that. In fact, many non-human points of view in GW1 seemed to match up with the humans. Now, sometimes it works: Abbadon was a fantastic retcon. But pretty much most of GW2 lore is meh & feels as though it is ashamed of GW1 trying to hide it with new “realistically ambiguous” lore. You even call Abbadon’s war a “tantrum”. You seem to have a disdain for the more popular aspects of GW1 lore. I mean, even the world visuals are unrecognizable! Making things realistic doesn’t instantly make them better. Also, the shift towards more modern dialog is silly.
Personally, GW2 killed most of the lore for me. It started getting meh in EotN, but I just can’t get into the new stories & new, modern, annoying characters, changing of the god’s stories & relationships, and boring dragons with the “natural cycle”. I can’t even grasp how the writers would think that is more interesting than the gods, the mursaat, Dhuum, Menziez, the Wizard’s tower, or the 100 other awesome things from GW1.
The only thing I fear is that the new writing will eventually take on those old stories & make them awful. That’d be the final Episode 1 moment of GW2. The gods have almost been ruined, so I guess I wouldn’t be surprised, but it would be a shame.

Yes, it is indeed non-human-centric, however, how you react to this feels more like “humanity was wrong” all the time with a side of “the gods are nothing special” – rather than trivializing the gods and their actions, which seems to be the direction chosen, it should be showing how the other races view and were affected by the acts of the gods. There was an interview a while back, mentioned in this thread, where a dev (I thought it was Ree but drax says it was Jeff) mentioned how the asura reacted to a magical event in the past – that, reasons unknown to them, the amount of magic in the world increased and subsequently decreased – and heavily implied it to be the asura’s reactions to the act of Abaddon gifting magic to the world. That was done properly – it didn’t trivialize the gods’ actions, but showed how another race reacted to the gods’ acts.

Agreed. I feel like in terms of GW2 lore & LS the writers seem to be going out of the way to make excuses for lore many people don’t like rather than admitting the error. To me, that’s a huge red flag for the future. No matter how much they ruin the past lore They will stick to their guns because.. well, just because. It’s interesting to note that while most of the GW2 recton excuses are “humanity was wrong”, there seems to be a thread in the new writing (even outside of the game) that “Eternal Alchemy is Accurate”. It’s just more evidence that the retcons are done just because the writer(s) personally didn’t like the old direction. I didn’t realize that you’d even gone so far as to call the magic school “constructs on this dogma”. I don’t know why you’re going through such a concerted effort to obliterate everything from GW1, but please stop. The result.. it’s.. not so good.

(edited by DarksunG.9537)

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

As to the bit you mention at the beginning, the dragons have a cycle of awakening and I’m pretty sure that the dates were calculable, so it’s not like they awakened because magic was out of balance in the world.

Just addressing this bit, the dates may be calculable for the dragon awakening and magic can still be out of balance if the rate of magic entering the world is steady. Whether constant or exponential. As long as there is a specific point at which the world is considered “out of balance”.

In fact, that calculation may well be rooted in the rate of magic entering Tyria compared to the point that the amount of magic is enough to awaken the ED’s.

I don’t recall it ever being said the Elder Dragons’ rise is calculable. Unless you’re referring to the birthing of stars as mentioned by Varra Skylark.

The stars’ birth just symbolize a “passing of ages” and it is known that the last time a star was formed happened the same time the Elder Dragons rose previously. It should be noted that:

  • The formation of stars hold no relation to events on Tyria, as she explains if you talk to her at the end of the dungeon path.
  • Nothing says the Elder Dragon rise before last had happened alongside the forming of a star. Keep in mind that between this and the previous dragon rising, we have the Bloodstone messing up with the natural balance of magic entering the world. With its unsealing, it would have resulted in more magic in the world being available sooner. If the Elder Dragons rise based on the amount of magic in this world that means that they rose sooner than they otherwise would have. If not, then that means that magic has been at a chaotically high level for some time.

So really, the Elder Dragons’ rise cannot be truly predicted in the stars’ formation. At least, given current knowledge.

I would also like to point that nothing says magic “enters the world of Tyria” so to speak. For all we know, that finite source of magic is stable, and it just goes through cycling between being out in the world, and being within the Elder Dragons (and their minions). Cut out the Elder Dragons, and you can have the same amount of magic in the world but just isolated in the corpses of the Elder Dragons and their minions (which would act like powerful magical artifacts until the magic seeps out into the world as per Glint’s corpse).

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

As to the bit you mention at the beginning, the dragons have a cycle of awakening and I’m pretty sure that the dates were calculable, so it’s not like they awakened because magic was out of balance in the world.

Just addressing this bit, the dates may be calculable for the dragon awakening and magic can still be out of balance if the rate of magic entering the world is steady. Whether constant or exponential. As long as there is a specific point at which the world is considered “out of balance”.

In fact, that calculation may well be rooted in the rate of magic entering Tyria compared to the point that the amount of magic is enough to awaken the ED’s.

I don’t recall it ever being said the Elder Dragons’ rise is calculable. Unless you’re referring to the birthing of stars as mentioned by Varra Skylark.

The stars’ birth just symbolize a “passing of ages” and it is known that the last time a star was formed happened the same time the Elder Dragons rose previously. It should be noted that:

  • The formation of stars hold no relation to events on Tyria, as she explains if you talk to her at the end of the dungeon path.
  • Nothing says the Elder Dragon rise before last had happened alongside the forming of a star. Keep in mind that between this and the previous dragon rising, we have the Bloodstone messing up with the natural balance of magic entering the world. With its unsealing, it would have resulted in more magic in the world being available sooner. If the Elder Dragons rise based on the amount of magic in this world that means that they rose sooner than they otherwise would have. If not, then that means that magic has been at a chaotically high level for some time.

So really, the Elder Dragons’ rise cannot be truly predicted in the stars’ formation. At least, given current knowledge.

I would also like to point that nothing says magic “enters the world of Tyria” so to speak. For all we know, that finite source of magic is stable, and it just goes through cycling between being out in the world, and being within the Elder Dragons (and their minions). Cut out the Elder Dragons, and you can have the same amount of magic in the world but just isolated in the corpses of the Elder Dragons and their minions (which would act like powerful magical artifacts until the magic seeps out into the world as per Glint’s corpse).

What I’m actually addressing is the fact that even if the ED’s rise is calculable, it doesn’t mean the ED’s don’t balance magic. So my point is that the two aren’t opposed.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

But pretty much most of GW2 lore is meh & feels as though it is ashamed of GW1 trying to hide it with new “realistically ambiguous” lore. You even call Abbadon’s war a “tantrum”. You seem to have a disdain for the more popular aspects of GW1 lore.

Agreed.

It’s interesting to note that while most of the GW2 recton excuses are “humanity was wrong”, there seems to be a thread in the new writing (even outside of the game) that “Eternal Alchemy is Accurate”. It’s just more evidence that the retcons are done just because the writer(s) personally didn’t like the old direction.

And yes, this bothers me as well. I really like the old human lore, and their Gods. I like the Asura and their Eternal Alchemy less (mostly because their technology is constantly used as a cheap plot device). But this apparent disdain for the old lore from GW1 is really frustrating.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

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Posted by: zamalek.2154

zamalek.2154

[…]It’s just more evidence that the retcons are done just because the writer(s) personally didn’t like the old direction.

[…]But this apparent disdain for the old lore from GW1 is really frustrating.

REMOVES tin foil hat. I’m really not being sarcastic here.

The old lore isn’t good enough because the Sylvari wouldn’t easily fit into it – in all seriousness it seems as though the Sylvari are being set up as the new god race in GW2. A pre-existing god race would directly compete with their supremacy.

Which is a massive pity; the human gods had a lot going for them – the only thing the Sylvari have are a very interesting and well-executed art direction: Scarlet has been called a Mary Sue many, many times on these forums; I would venture to say that the entire race is.

This is a big pity – if you really want to avoid too much story telling in terms of GW1 races, there is another very-competently written race that is basically completely un-involved in the living story: the Asura.

Auroraglade
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working
.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

I think the Asura are poorly written too. I liked them in GW1, because we would often see their flaws on display. Their disdain for other creatures was often played for laughs, yet they didn’t lose their credibility. And through Vekk, we saw that there were many sides to being an Asura. Some of them could be reasonable, and some of them could be down right impossible to work with.

But in GW2, the Asura are the ultimate deus ex machina to all of GW2’s plots. They can literally create anything, including the Super Adventure Box, giant lasers, airships, …anything! And it is draining the believability out of Tyria. At least in GW1 they played it down a lot. Asura made Golems, and they made gateways. They couldn’t do everything, and there was a lot of old magic in the world as well.

The problem I have with the Sylvari, is that they are too perfect. I can literally find no flaws about this race, they are so boring. Their art style is cool, but there’s nothing to their culture that doesn’t put me to sleep. And to make matters worse, there’s the nightmare court, which adds a huge cliche on top of their lore. Seriously now, a whole group dedicated to corruption, nightmares and evil? Which 5 year old wrote this? No offense to the actual writers, but this is really drawing from an artistic blank.

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

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Posted by: zamalek.2154

zamalek.2154

I think what is causing your grievances with the Asura in GW2 is that, like all the other races, they are living in the shadow of the Sylvari. What gives me hope about the Asura is that their impotence is not as pronounced as all the other races – they might be have weak plots at times, but at least they actually have plots (once in a blue 8 bit moon). The other races are so insignificant at this point that any involvement from them would be, in itself, weak storytelling – “why are the Charr all of a sudden doing something important? This makes no sense.” Until the 6th race comes along and mixes it up I honestly think that the Asura are the only way to progress from the current slump – they can be used by the writers to write themselves out of this mess (because they are in the sweet spot where they are still somewhat undefined but not completely insignificant at the same time).

Auroraglade
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working
.

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

Actually, the asura have probably had about as much focus as the sylvari in the LS, especially if you allow for the fact that the Scarlet storyline has actually been relatively sylvari-light when you take into account that the main character is a sylvari (apart from Scarlet herself, Canach, and the Nightmare Court involvement in the last couple of months, there hasn’t really been all that much sylvari).

Asura, by contrast, gave the warnings for both Halloween and Lost Shores, Tixx is an asura, the Consortium is an asura company, the Inquest is connected with the Aetherblades (although it seems like they may have pulled out since AR), and then the asura NPCs focused on during last year’s Halloween and Lost Shores returned for this year’s Halloween and Secret of Southsun. Then, of course, there’s the SAB.

The one thing the asura haven’t had is the “isn’kitten pity what’s happening to them” storylines, which apart from Braham and Rox is pretty much all the norn and charr have had.

The other races certainly do have the potential to act – it just requires ArenaNet to be willing focus on their strengths and interests, which for humans and norn in particular have so far been downplayed.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

(edited by draxynnic.3719)

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Posted by: Narcemus.1348

Narcemus.1348

Yeah, I have to agree with Drax and Malafide, the asura are far from anyone’s shadow at the moment, and if anything, I would say that their influence over the story overshadow’s the sylvari as a race. Thus far Scarlet has had very little to do with her race, in fact she seems to be more like an asura in a sylvari’s skin with her super-intelligent-ness and her mustache twirling evil (honestly seems inquest-ish to me). Even the nightmare court aspect of this story and the Twilight Assault story are very diluted. Aside from the fact that you are inside of Twilight Arbor, the area has very little effect from the Nightmare Court aside from the first 10 minutes or so. And the Nightmare court themselves don’t say/do much in this current update, it seems much more strongly focused on the krait.

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

Well, I’d be very surprised if the climax doesn’t bring Scarlet’s rejection of the Dream to the forefront in some manner, which means that it will finish off being quite sylvari-oriented. However, we were always going to see storylines that involve conflicts within a given race – a WM storyline is naturally going to be human focused, a Jormag storyline will be norn-focused, and so on. Having the main villain’s race be a little in the spotlight is to be expected – it’s if we end up with three or four consecutive sylvari main characters that a trend has been established. (We’re currently at two, if you consider PS and Scarlet’s side of the LS to be the main Season 1 and Season 2 plots, but as a statistician friend of mine says – two points is a coincidence. Three establishes the trend.)

A trend, that, incidentally, was formed in the initial set of updates with Tassi, Levvi, Tixx, and, arguably, Scarlet herself. As Narcemus says, Scarlet’s behaviour, mannerisms, and to a certain extent upbringing all appear at least strongly influenced by the Inquest, she’s a product of the asura education system, and the moment where she completely snapped was tied in with the asura belief system. While she is a sylvari, there are at least as many asura-related themes in Scarlet’s story as there are sylvari.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.