Guild Wars 2

HOW can you intepret it in two different ways?
When they outright stated that you can CHOOSE to buy content you have missed.
If you HAD to play everything in order you can’t CHOOSE to buy content, since if you don’t, you will be locked out from every single release until you do so. Do you really think they would have left something like that out when they talked about it?

It seems to me that they did leave that out when they talked about it. Which why it’s subject to interpretation. In this article: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-story-journal/ the only place they touch on the subject would be this part:
Once you’ve unlocked it by simply logging in, you can replay that episode’s storyline on any character on your account as many times as you like from your story Journal forever. Past episodes will be available for purchase for 200 gems.

The wiki doesn’t seem to off an answer, either:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_season_2

Please link the article you interpret to to mean “We can pick and choose which parts of Living Story Season 2 we want to play, without having to do them in sequential order.”

It was not said in an article but rather the live-stream I believe.
But the fact that it says “Past episodes will be available for purchase for 200 gems” rather than Past episodes must be purchased for 200 gems" would suggest that it is very much optional.

Baldrick.8967:

Not all of us want to play a …

you are right in all but one thing.

The mobs drop t6 mats and other things. This put together with the buried chests, made about 18 gold with limited time there the past 5 days.

even removing the scarf/goggles i got, that’s 10 gold not including the silk and other salvaged stuff. The ambrite sells great. The cooking recipes are over a gold. etc etc.

I do agree this LS2 opening sucks with the jumping and shortness.

re: it says “Past episodes will be available for purchase for 200 gems” rather than Past episodes must be purchased for 200 gems" That’s simply your interpretation of the wording, nothing concrete. I also note your use of the words “I believe”, indicating that you are not even certain where this information (which you have previously asserted to be absolutely concrete) comes from.
So why don’t you please provide us with a link to that live stream?
Because still haven’t seen anything that leads me to believe that you can pick and choose which parts of Living Story Season 2 that you want to play, rather than having to do it in sequential order,(without skipping around) like the Personal Story.

You can choose to buy missed content, or you can not play it. That’s all we know for certain.

IF it follows personal story, then you would have to fill in any gaps in content in order to progress. If there are 10 parts and you happen to be on a break from the game, then it would costs you £20 to buy all the permanent new LS2 content, so it’s just like buying an expansion.

From a map design point of view, I can’t see them making every piece separate so that you can get directly to it without needing to walk through at least some of the previous pieces, which suggests that you will need to fill in any gaps.

And LS2 happens to be running during the holiday season, which should generate some healthy gem sales for ANET as people miss a section on their holidays.

Of course being American they won’t get that many Europeans take longer vacations than in the USA and missing at least one section won’t be unusual over here.

Krall will put a positive spin on everything ANET say- they really should hire him as a hidden PR person if they aren’t already paying him. You don’t HAVE to purchase the missing content, perfectly correct in as far as you state it. But then you WILL miss out on permanent content- no maybe about it. You either pay for it, or you don’t get it. that’s the options being offered by ANET.

I’ll add my two cents on the possibility of accessing future content without doing the past content.

Living Story comes after your Personal Story. I have not done my Personal Story on anyone except one character (who actually still hasn’t even finished it). I have done the Living Story on at least 8 characters.

Assuming they keep them separated like “Chapters”, I doubt you’ll have to do the previous things to access future things.

As for “You have to pay for it or you miss it”, I was of the understanding that if you didn’t unlock it, you could still go in with friends who have it (just like you can join a friend in personal story that isn’t yours).

Filaha.1678:

I’m only “fixated on mesmers and portals” because that’s what people are responding to from the first reply I made. Don’t blame me for responding to the topic that people responded to. Why would I change my topic from mesmers to something else when that’s not what the people responding to me were talking about when they replied to me?

I’m sorry I’ve clearly made you upset with my suggestion on how to “get around a wall”. Next time I will offer no suggestions to help with accessing content, as clearly they’re not appreciated and people would rather just stew in their own complaints.

Be so kind and re-read what I wrote to you in the first place:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Jumping-Feedback-Thread/4180150

Wait, I’ll help you out.

Mandatory jumping which was optional before, and which now not only blocks players from continuing forward but also breaks with the core GW2 had/ has. A foundation which allowed many players to simply have fun, instead of building up heaps of frustration over this (now forced upon) jumping stuff. Which earlier could either be ignored or returned to later. But not anymore.

As for this:

And yes, if you couldn’t get from the top of the first cliff to the second waypoint, the fault is not with the game. It’s not hard to get there from the top of that cliff.

Not for you maybe. But plenty in this thread have shared their details about the issues they encountered before you came in.

Again: this has nothing to do with the friendly help of Mesmers, but rather with certain flaws this new release has and which many have shared their issues with – often explaining in full detail what they face(d) while even adding a “simple solution” on possible fixes.

For the record, you did not make me upset.

I just went into the area with an alt, and asked if someone could portal me from the from the first waypoint to second waypoint . The response was that is was too far, and would be more time and effort than it was worth, that I should do it myself.
I didn’t offer payment, and I’m not going to hang around being a bother in map chat. I asked, and was refused. And sitting there thinking about it, it would be a lot of time and effort to port someone from the first waypoint to the second. Though while I was there ports to the goggles were offered on a regular basis. So an unnecessary port is easy to get. The necessary one, not so much.(and I understand why) It’s really set up things up poorly(IMO) here at the very beginning of LS S2. Jump-challenged people have been shut out right at the start.(Of course, better now than halfway through, or, Heaven forbid, close to the end.)

This thread is getting tense! All because people refuse to read previous concerns or because of the “I did it so can you mentality”. I assure you not everyone can do the same things as the next person. There are a lot of factors that take place here so maybe listen to some..open your tunnel vision..
As for the mesmer portal trick. I think most people would like to be independent and not have another carry them through Story driving content..Yes a portal to a jumping puzzle is one thing as it OPTIONAL, but to get through the STORY of the game is another issue entirely!

Raenzjar.4210:

Be so kind and re-read what I wrote to you in the first place:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Jumping-Feedback-Thread/4180150

Wherein you specifically quoted the mesmer bit from what I said that you quoted.

Mandatory jumping which was optional before, and which now not only blocks players from continuing forward but also breaks with the core GW2 had/ has. A foundation which allowed many players to simply have fun, instead of building up heaps of frustration over this (now forced upon) jumping stuff. Which earlier could either be ignored or returned to later. But not anymore.

Jumping was mandatory if you wanted map completion.
Jumping is not mandatory here if you have a mesmer willing to help out.

Raenzjar.4210:

Not for you maybe. But plenty in this thread have shared their details about the issues they encountered before you came in.

Not for me and anyone who can fall in a hole and run.

I literally just tested. After you get to the top of the first cliff (right above the first lightning crystal), one of the paths you can use to get to the inner waypoint is to fall off the first platform into the ahead hole, then run along the canyon floor. There’s then a path right along the canyon floor that requires zero jumping to reach the open desert and waypoint therein.

One mesmer portal is enough to get you to a point where all you have to do is fall and run.

Now, remember, I’m not saying that you can do all the new content without using the aspect crystals. There is some optional stuff (such as the jumping puzzle) that would, obviously, require jumping. However, the actual story things are hardly blocked off from anyone after one mesmer portal.

And no, I honestly don’t see how any of the “mandatory” content in the living story is inaccessible once you get that one portal. One of the story instances does require a small amount of jumping, but it’s mostly against a wall, which I don’t see how you could be unable to jump against a wall but be able to do any of the rest of the game’s content.

Don’t bother repeating that people have stated reasons. I’m clearly not going to go through 13 pages of the thread trying to prove your point. If you can list any of the reasons that would stop someone from doing that (which is the game’s fault), then feel free to point them out.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

I just went into the area with an alt, and asked if someone could portal me from the from the first waypoint to second waypoint .

You don’t need a portal from the first waypoint to the second waypoint. Once you get to the top of the first cliff (right above the lightning crystal), you can fall into the next hole and run along the canyon floor without any jumps whatsoever and get to the open desert.

NYG.2568:

This thread is getting tense! All because people refuse to read previous concerns or because of the “I did it so can you mentality”. I assure you not everyone can do the same things as the next person. There are a lot of factors that take place here so maybe listen to some..open your tunnel vision..
As for the mesmer portal trick. I think most people would like to be independent and not have another carry them through Story driving content..Yes a portal to a jumping puzzle is one thing as it OPTIONAL, but to get through the STORY of the game is another issue entirely!

Expecting somebody to go through 13+ pages of a thread to prove your point is ridiculous. There’s also a difference between “I did it, so can you” and “I did it, and I can’t see how anyone would actually have difficulty with the easy jumps which require running against a wall and jumping”.

Again, I didn’t say anything about being carried through the story content. ONE mesmer portal to the top of the first cliff is enough to give you access to all the story content with minimal, easy jumping from that point on.

I and my girlfriend completed the Gates of Maguuma this weekend. I am a highly skilled jumper who enjoys JP’s. She… isn’t. (Sorry, dear!)

I enjoyed the Aspect crystals for moving around the map. My girlfriend did not. (She didn’t like the Labyrinthine Cliffs much either.) However, we both agree that barring lag, getting through the map for the purposes of completing the story was quite easy. The jumps and movements aren’t particularly complicated, and 15 seconds is USUALLY enough to get it done once you know where you’re going.

The jumping puzzle/achievement is a whole different kettle of fish. It’s not as hard as the Clock Tower or Not So Secret, but the strict time limit of the crystals puts it on par with Skipping Stones, I believe. Once you’re experienced with it, you can get up to the top easily, but for players who aren’t good at JP’s I can see why it might be extremely frustrating. Thankfully, there seem to be no shortage of helpful Mesmers with portals around!

My 9 year old cousin who is partially paralyzed in his right arm and leg can jump fine in gw2. He pretty much plays one handed. Only using his other hand for a single button when needed (jumping or attacking). Watching him play makes it seem that those of you who say you cant do it are just giving up way too easily. I have no sympathy for quitters.

If you can move your character effectively then i see no reason why you cant do a few simple jumps. The only jumps which halt progress are the first 3 and the few in the story instance. But these all give you plenty of time to do them and you can complete all of them by using 2 buttons or 1 in the case of the lightning jump.

That said i dont really like the aspect jumping either. I dont like being forced to jump to get around and i actually quite enjoy jumping puzzles. I dont think it should be forced on the playerbase.

Taking stuff out of context only shows how desperate you are to find excuses.

Nope, I showed how you are selective using the words of other people. And yes, the lag got fixed, while it lasted several days, making it harder for players with certain limitations. (it takes time to fix stuff = np. Glad it got fixed!).

It is not I looking for excuses.

But, again, I wonder what Anet themselves have to say about this jumping stuff. I do not care all that much about people and their ‘I can so you can do so, too’ attitude.

It’s more a “you could up to now, why can’t you now?”-attitude

OP you wont win here, not because you don’t have a valid point but because your inadvertently trying to hinder progress, you might not see movement on the y axis as progress but the devs do and I share their view, as soon as you have a game that has vertical movement its inevitable that the devs are going to experiment with movement on that axis, personally I think they’ve done a good job with it, I understand you have latency issues (and your not being co-ordinated with jumping and I can respect and relate to that, I live in south Africa, ive had days in Skyhammer were because of lag I have the most terrible experience, literally making me question why I even bother with pvp) but I don’t expect Anet to restrict the evolution of their ideas because it doesn’t work for me. we live in an era of tech exponentially increasing, the way I see it jumpings only going to increase more in this game, if you done like it the best you can do is “jump ship” now before you invest more into the game

Spoofy.8239:

@Equilibriator.8741

Clearly you have read the title of the post but either you glossed over the post itself or didn’t comprehend what the post meaning was

I shall reiterate: the poster did not say jumping should be removed he/she said that the game at least gave you an option to progress through the game without participating in that sport.

This point you seem to have neglected.

The game was going “forward” handsomely without forcing people to have to do the jumping. Now that has changed and the poster has made a valid comment about it.

Your bile laced post and derogatory comments only go to prove my previous post

I was talking about making jumping optional and how it is the same as removing it, you condescending kitten . Personal story is something people want to do, to make jumping optional would be to remove it entirely from personal story, therefore all extra content cannot have any form of jumping as its “must do” content, jumping must purely be “optional”.

Therefore, my point is that all personal story/living story content becomes a single flat plane with no originality or intrigue because some people cant handle basic jumping.

And I did read everything before me, I read a hell of a lot of pages before me, just because ive found an angle to try and get the complainers to understand why they are being selfish doesn’t mean I didn’t understand the original post to which I am not replying . This is a feedback thread and i’m giving feedback to other peoples feedback, the world isn’t just everyone agreeing with each other.

re: making jumping optional and how it is the same as removing it – Not necessarily. How would having alternate paths with jumping/ZA use, and no jumping ZA use be removing it?

re: to make jumping optional would be to remove it entirely from personal story – Once again, this doesn’t necessarily follow. Map design could allow for alternate paths.

And once again, I’m not asking that jumping or Zephyrite Aspects be entirely removed from the game, or even entirely from mainstream content. I’m just asking that they please be made optional, instead of mandatory. Because I would like to do Living Story Season 2. Or at least I thought I did at the beginning of all this. But if Zephyrite Aspects are heavily tied into the core mechanics for the entirety of LS S2, I don’t see much point in continuing.

I have verified that if you get up the cliff to [Choke Canyon] there is a place where you can safely drop down and make your way to the Prosperity waypoint.(Thank you Filaha, for pointing that out.) Once you’ve cleared the first cliff, near the Choke Canyon PoI, it’s on your right as you reach the crate. There’s place you can look down and see a shelf there that you can drop to. If you drop down to the shelf, you can safely drop to the ground from there and run to Prosperity waypoint.(the second waypoint) If you jump on the crate and proceed instead, it’s one more Z jump to get to the LS NPC’s. After doing the Living Story segments that take place here, you could come back to this place and get down. So you could potentially open up the map without having to use ZA, if you can get a mesmer to portal you to Choke Canyon. One other thing though, there’s frequently an event here at Choke Canyon where monsters and their AoE can go right up to the edge of the cliff. This would make it inconvenient for a mesmer to set up a portal there when that event is running.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: making jumping optional and how it is the same as removing it – Not necessarily. How would having alternate paths with jumping/ZA use, and no jumping ZA use be removing it?

re: to make jumping optional would be to remove it entirely from personal story – Once again, this doesn’t necessarily follow. Map design could allow for alternate paths.

And once again, I’m not asking that jumping or Zephyrite Aspects be entirely removed from the game, or even entirely from mainstream content. I’m just asking that they please be made optional, instead of mandatory. Because I would like to do Living Story Season 2. Or at least I thought I did at the beginning of all this. But if Zephyrite Aspects are heavily tied into the core mechanics for the entirety of LS S2, I don’t see much point in continuing.

ok, i can see your problem..unfortunately, you need to understand that this jumping content is fairly easy and its a pleasant change of pace that my hand isnt being held through everything because every inept player wants the game lowered to their lack of skill.

You say you dont want it removed, but you want it made optional….again….this IS removing it. You want it placed to the side which in turn limits the potential of any future content.

This isnt just about jumping, its about opening up the game to new and interesting possibilities, for the third time: how can they make interesting content if they have to make sure that same content is accessible to the “basic jumping challenged”, the game is easy enough as it is, learn to play the game, the jumping isnt hard…

And as a final statement (you wouldnt have seen my original post im assuming), where do we draw the line? What about the people that havent learned other aspects of the game yet, like fighting or moving… should all the content that is considered more challenging than pushing the up arrow or right clicking on a stationary bad guy be moved to the “optional” side of the game? Slowly, the fun of the main storyline becomes incredibly boring and repetitive.

@Equilibriator: I’m with you on this. You won’t get an answer to your question, I asked a very similar question not long ago. Just read the answers they made to the previous posts.

http://tinyurl.com/o4rstld

I’ve never had lag or fps issues. Though I have built a decent rig, and have a 55mb ISP. But all I’ve really read though, in this whole thread, is either:

“I have great hand eye coordination and love the new content and JP’s in general.”

and

“So like , can mu Amiga 128 ona 8k modem play GW2? I dun aint too good at gettin ‘er to jump where’s I like. So Ima hatin da new content, Bro.”

To which I say, “No. And dude ? Duuuuuuuuuuuuude! Its the prelude.”

@Marcus Greythorne, I’d like to see a URL, not some (possible unsafe) shortener.

I know there are many who simply click such links, and good chance work on infected machines due to their stupidity, but, yeah..a full URL would be very much appreciated. Why Anet even allows such links to be posted here is beyond me, but that’s another (security) discussion.

@Fathima
Cool story bro, clearly showing you did not read the many other arguments.

Equilibriator, you get the point (and yes, I did read your earlier comments, also) Elden Arnaas made, and you counter it with fallacy and further exaggerations?

Being: “What about the people that havent learned other aspects of the game yet, like fighting or moving…”…and (earlier) stuff like making ‘flat maps’. Come on, you can do better!?

In my opinion it is awesome Anet is trying/ testing out new stuff. Incl. the jumping, even though I am not really fond of doing them myself. But hey, my ‘personal quality gaming time’ is not yours, vice versa. Something some people in this thread seem to forget, with their arrogant and even insulting ways of expressing themselves. (I do not keep silent when I see kicking down happening.)

As soon as the patch went live, many players had an awkward moment, regarding to the mandatory jumping and expressed that on this forum and ingame. As can be seen not only in this now merged thread, but also still floating on the forum.

Again: it is not about taking away any jumping, as you know. But rather about keeping content accessible for those who love to play this game, like any other (aside from the bored peeps).

Alternative routes (hi Mesmer suggestions!!1!!) like placing a “beam” to reach certain points was one of the suggestions made. Anet can keep trying out new stuff; jumpers can drop dead, as often as they please (j/k) and so on. While all players can progress further. It does not take away, but it adds to the gameplay in general. In my opinion, that is.

I really do not see any problem with such minor implementations.

As long as we do not hear from Anet themselves about this, this thread will keep going back and forth, and no doubt more insults will be spewed by those who not even bother reading the arguments made. Not a good thing, if you ask me.

Raenzjar.4210:

As long as we do not hear from Anet themselves about this, this thread will keep going back and forth, and no doubt more insults will be spewed by those who not even bother reading the arguments made. Not a good thing, if you ask me.

that’s the one thing I agree with you, so I guess I’ll call it a day and leave people making their own mind when reading the arguments from both sides

First part with the crystals in Dry Top is a lag test. If you have skill delay > 0.5s, you fail (aspects will ensure that) and should exit the map.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Raenzjar.4210:

As long as we do not hear from Anet themselves about this, this thread will keep going back and forth, and no doubt more insults will be spewed by those who not even bother reading the arguments made. Not a good thing, if you ask me.

that’s the one thing I agree with you, so I guess I’ll call it a day and leave people making their own mind when reading the arguments from both sides

+1
and it didn’t help that the jumping topics were merged. It just added to the problems here. Dry Top jumping discussion should not have been merged with Living World genereal jumping thread, it only added to the confusion/misunderstanding/insults etc. even though I am sure they had the best intentions.

re: how can they make interesting content if they have to make sure that same content is accessible to the “basic jumping challenged” – I’m so glad you asked. I’d like them to make the fights better. GW1 had no jumping mechanic, and (IMO) most of the GW1 fights were more interesting than GW2 fights. You didn’t “show up and spam 1” in GW1. Yet that’s what most world boss fights have devolved to in GW2.(IMO) The “hard” fights in GW2 either require massive scale coordination of so many people that it’s awkward to do if you’re not in a guild dedicated to defeating that particular WB, and using voice chat. Or they do this reaction time and dexterity thing, that isn’t learned, it’s just reflexes. And some of us aren’t nearly as good at that.In GW1, it was about knowing your class and skills, and knowing your enemy.(not reflexes)
Now that LS S2 will make use of instances, they can do stuff a lot more like they did with GW1.(More complex and interesting, less dependant on PUGs, and not needing staggering numbers – which can’t be coordinated.)

@Marcus Greythorne re: You won’t get an answer to your question – What question aren’t you getting an answer to?(without the tiny url, please)

re: making jumping optional is that same as taking it out – If there are two paths and one requires heavy jumping or ZA use, and the other doesn’t, which would you take? Exactly. You like jumping and would take the jumping path. So would everyone else who likes jumping. Making jumping optional does not equal removing it. The only difference is, the content is accessible to more people.

And once again, let me say that we don’t want jumping taken out. We want it to please be optional for mainstream content. We don’t want less options in the game, we want more options, please. Shouldn’t that benefit everyone?

re: Clearly the living story content is not mandatory to enjoy the game. – Neither is jumping mandatory to enjoy the game. But do you want jumping? – Yes. And do I want Living Story? – Yes.

My very personal opinion is as follows:

Fairness – someone said it would be unfair to those that already have done the achievements if a few seconds were added to the timer. As one of those who already have done it, I disagree. If they add for example 5 seconds so that more people can do it, I’m all for it. (I am assuming that those of you who disagree with me on this always refuse free ports to JP chests since everyone should work equally hard.)

Porting – well, it helps with the first bit and gives access to the second waypoint, but you still have to use aspects to get to the story instances, and you have to use aspects in the story instances as well.. If someone asks in map chat I will help with a port and guide them to the second waypoint, I am however unsure how much good it will do.

Have a nice day!

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: Clearly the living story content is not mandatory to enjoy the game. – Neither is jumping mandatory to enjoy the game. But do you want jumping? – Yes. And do I want Living Story? – Yes.

Not really.

I honestly don’t care whether there’s jumping in it or not. In fact, I’ve not even done a majority of the jumping puzzles as I could take or leave the jumping.

If you check my initial post in here, my position is made quite clearly. I don’t think jumping should be removed for people who just don’t want to. I don’t want to run dungeons, but if I want to get the skins (I do), I need to. So I’ll suck it up and do it, not petition Anet to make them available through karma or gold.

For the people who can not do the jumping, because of physical limitations, for example, then it’s rough, and it sucks to have to rely on other people (although you had to for previous living world content as well), but there are ways around it.

Would I care if Anet listened to the people here and removed the jumping from the story content? No. I’ve never represented that they should not remove the jumping, just that if they do, it should be a fair reason, not people who “just don’t care for it”.

Ashandar.2570:

Porting – well, it helps with the first bit and gives access to the second waypoint, but you still have to use aspects to get to the story instances, and you have to use aspects in the story instances as well.. If someone asks in map chat I will help with a port and guide them to the second waypoint, I am however unsure how much good it will do.

You do have to use aspects, right. But they’re not hard jumps. They require no precision or fast timing. If someone is completely incapable of making those jumps, then I don’t see why they’re complaining about jumping, since I don’t see how they could have contributed to the world events like Marionette or the assault knights/holograms, which required a better PC and better reflexes to not spend the fight laying on the ground.

Semi-offtopic question.

Does anyone have experience with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Experimental_rifle when it comes to difficult jumps? A range of 900 seems useful in the new zone?

I use some env. items (turret & pet), but this one was unknown to me. I’ll check it later today, of course.

Jumping puzzles are fun, if everything works the way it’s supposed to.

When you hit invisible things, the camera gets blocked or zooms in/out constantly, or Wind Leap triggers but doesn’t work, or Lightning Tether doesn’t pull you to where it’s supposed to…

…then it gets super annoying really fast.

Also, what’s with the stupid timer? The charges were annoying enough!

They (the aspect charges) got damaged in the crash, so they’re unstable

What I can’t stand is that if I’m under the influence of any condition, even if it is blindness, my movement speed is impaired, and I can’t make certain jumps. It is infuriating.

When ever the game thinks I’m in combat, movement and jumping speed are reduced. But the in-combat code is very buggy. It often keeps the player in combat, even when he/she is not.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

What I can’t stand is that if I’m under the influence of any condition, even if it is blindness, my movement speed is impaired, and I can’t make certain jumps. It is infuriating.

When ever the game thinks I’m in combat, movement and jumping speed are reduced. But the in-combat code is very buggy. It often keeps the player in combat, even when he/she is not.

I agree, it’s really annoying. Happens to me a lot when running with the zerg, doing a dodge and one of my clones attacks some wildlife. —> Mesmer falls behind

and as you said it’s a problem in jumping puzzles where enemies are involved. Maybe it serves a purpose: you have to clear the area first to safely move on.

Not sure what patch changed this. But now whenever you kill a critter you get put in combat for a few seconds. Before it didnt because they died instantly. Its really annoying. To be honest the whole combat slowing movement has always bothered me. We move slow enough as it is. :P

It’s as if whenever any creature in Tyria gets angry with you, you are suddenly running in syrup. And they have a habit of staying mad at you for a very long time, sometimes even when they can’t reach you.

For example, there’s a drake at the bottom of the Collapsed Observatory JP, that will become hostile with the player quite often, while being miles below the player, and having no way to possibly reach the player. This makes jumping literally impossible, so you have to go down and kill him. Only one problem: It’s a one-way street. If you drop down, you can’t go back.

Staying in combat can be a bit ‘buggy/ laggy’ indeed. For me it’s mostly noticeable in the southwest corner of Blazeridge steppes, just past the border of Dragonwatch and Blightwater bassin, going south, when staying near the “wall”.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/d/d4/Blazeridge_Steppes_map.jpg

Border (white line) > B of Blightwater – roughly that area.

Doesn’t really matter, the area-view remains awesome anyway.

But all that doesn’t have a thing to do with the criticized jumping, about which Anet remains silent ’till now.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

You can tell that some people have never had any difficulty jumping, and just cannot comprehend our point of view. Additionally, some of them are unwilling to accept another point of view. And some of them just come here to be argumentative. These are people we cannot reach, or convince to consider our point of view. They are not receptive, and we should not waste our time(and thread space) responding to them.
We need to respectfully, make our issues known in a clear, concise manner, for the people who are willing to consider another point of view.(hopefully the Anet dev staff) Anything else is a waste of time and effort, and is just cluttering up the thread.

+1… there are people who are for some reason unable to envision any reality that they have not experienced personally. “I’ve never had any problems with jumping, so you’re all noobs using lag as an excuse.” “My graphics card works fine with this particular game, so it must be only you.” “I got a precursor on my tenth try, so the mystic forge works great.” I shudder to think of how they apply this kind of ill-founded “logic” in real world situations. Convincing them is almost always more trouble than it’s worth; fortunately the magic of forums means we don’t have to interact with them at all.

And more to the point of the thread, it’s nice to see that others share my doubts about jumping in gw2. As I’ve stated many times in other places, I just hope the devs eventually come around to recognizing that online 3D platforming with MMO controls and camera schemes presents challenges that make it significantly less enjoyable to many people than the offline 2D games of our youth or Assassin’s Creeds and Uncharteds of today.

I have not had a lot of trouble with the platforming in this release personally, and I’ve completed every JP in the game including the clock tower because I’m an achievement kitten, but it’s just not enjoyable, and it’s not what I want out of an MMO. I respect that some people like it, so I don’t want to see it gone entirely, but I definitely don’t agree with it being tied to living story progression, as the LS will be the core of the game moving forward.

Raenzjar.4210:

Equilibriator, you get the point (and yes, I did read your earlier comments, also) Elden Arnaas made, and you counter it with fallacy and further exaggerations?

Being: “What about the people that havent learned other aspects of the game yet, like fighting or moving…”…and (earlier) stuff like making ‘flat maps’. Come on, you can do better!?

In my opinion it is awesome Anet is trying/ testing out new stuff. Incl. the jumping, even though I am not really fond of doing them myself. But hey, my ‘personal quality gaming time’ is not yours, vice versa. Something some people in this thread seem to forget, with their arrogant and even insulting ways of expressing themselves. (I do not keep silent when I see kicking down happening.)

As soon as the patch went live, many players had an awkward moment, regarding to the mandatory jumping and expressed that on this forum and ingame. As can be seen not only in this now merged thread, but also still floating on the forum.

Again: it is not about taking away any jumping, as you know. But rather about keeping content accessible for those who love to play this game, like any other (aside from the bored peeps).

Alternative routes (hi Mesmer suggestions!!1!!) like placing a “beam” to reach certain points was one of the suggestions made. Anet can keep trying out new stuff; jumpers can drop dead, as often as they please (j/k) and so on. While all players can progress further. It does not take away, but it adds to the gameplay in general. In my opinion, that is.

I really do not see any problem with such minor implementations.

As long as we do not hear from Anet themselves about this, this thread will keep going back and forth, and no doubt more insults will be spewed by those who not even bother reading the arguments made. Not a good thing, if you ask me.

dude, that was painful to read. You are reading my comments, quoting them but not actually tackling the points I am making and are instead just making the same statements you previously said another time.

On a side note, I don’t care that I sound arrogant or insulting, you deserve it because you are trying to make this game pathetically easy because you cant do basic things. Seriously, why did you buy the game if you cant jump, I don’t know how you don’t see how utterly selfish people like you are being by essentially asking/demanding that the game have stuff that lets you “skip” anything you cant do whilst not giving a kitten about people who cant do other things. Go read a book, watch a movie, those are thing you should be able to do without pushing any buttons, therefore its perfect for you and your complete inability to play the game. This is a game. Sometimes in games there is challenges you must face/conquer to progress. This isn’t primary school where everyone gets a medal for just putting on their gym kit.

Now if you are still reading, think, actually THINK about what i’m saying in its full context, stop thinking about your issue as this “simple thing” because its not. Its a can of worms issue. For the fourth time, once again my point has been ignored by someone replying to me, if you want jumping removed from the main content, what happens if I want the content that involves speaking removed, because I cant read? What if someone else wants 90 degree corners removed, because they haven’t figured out how to run and turn yet?

you say these arguments are basically over exaggerations but that is how you sound to me, you want something that is already simple…made simpler…you literally want a little thing you click that takes you immediately from the start to the finish….because you cant jump….and you don’t see this as a bad thing because you are so blinded by what YOU WANT that you don’t see how this may impact EVERYBODY ELSE.

The reason things like this keep bouncing back and forth endlessly is because people like you blindly ignore any statements made against something you want. I am actually listening to points and trying to come up with reasons that should persuade and help people understand why some things have to happen for this game to flourish rather than die. Instead, every response I get boils down to “your rude, I disagree, all i’m asking for is for jumping to be possible to eliminate from the game cos I don’t want to do it, its totally not a big issue at all”

as a last point, to really make this clear, at what point do you stop making content easily accessible for everyone, once your happy or once the thousands of other people have had their grievances removed from the game? should all living story be reduced to a 5 minute video and nothing else, no new maps, no new interactive content (because believe me, someone out there cant do stuff even you find obvious and ridiculously easy)?

spikyblackhair.4951:

Elden Arnaas.4870:

You can tell that some people have never had any difficulty jumping, and just cannot comprehend our point of view. Additionally, some of them are unwilling to accept another point of view. And some of them just come here to be argumentative. These are people we cannot reach, or convince to consider our point of view. They are not receptive, and we should not waste our time(and thread space) responding to them.
We need to respectfully, make our issues known in a clear, concise manner, for the people who are willing to consider another point of view.(hopefully the Anet dev staff) Anything else is a waste of time and effort, and is just cluttering up the thread.

+1… there are people who are for some reason unable to envision any reality that they have not experienced personally. “I’ve never had any problems with jumping, so you’re all noobs using lag as an excuse.” “My graphics card works fine with this particular game, so it must be only you.” “I got a precursor on my tenth try, so the mystic forge works great.” I shudder to think of how they apply this kind of ill-founded “logic” in real world situations. Convincing them is almost always more trouble than it’s worth; fortunately the magic of forums means we don’t have to interact with them at all.

And more to the point of the thread, it’s nice to see that others share my doubts about jumping in gw2. As I’ve stated many times in other places, I just hope the devs eventually come around to recognizing that online 3D platforming with MMO controls and camera schemes presents challenges that make it significantly less enjoyable to many people than the offline 2D games of our youth or Assassin’s Creeds and Uncharteds of today.

I have not had a lot of trouble with the platforming in this release personally, and I’ve completed every JP in the game including the clock tower because I’m an achievement kitten, but it’s just not enjoyable, and it’s not what I want out of an MMO. I respect that some people like it, so I don’t want to see it gone entirely, but I definitely don’t agree with it being tied to living story progression, as the LS will be the core of the game moving forward.

The thing is, we do understand your frustrations. During one living story content I was having computer issues and lag made jumping IMPOSSIBLE to do correctly, what did I do? I didn’t do the content and I wasted for it to finish and then did the next thing instead. What I didn’t do was come online and complain about it to everyone else and ask for jumping to be removed from the game.

When I started this game I couldnt jump, I couldn’t move and fight, my first 2 characters never made it past level 20 because they died all the time. But I played on, now I kick kitten , I wouldn’t kick kitten now if I didn’t conquer the problems I had with the game at the time. I didn’t come on the forums and demand fighting be made easier because I couldn’t move and fight at same time..I didn’t try to change the game because of my incompetence and because I could find other people who had the same failings.

The reason people like me don’t fully acknowledge what people like you are saying is because what you are saying is not a valid argument for making changes to the game. You are a vegetarian person standing in McDonalds complaining that the food isn’t healthy when there are hundreds of healthy food restaurants in the area.

re: If you can’t jump, then you shouldn’t/probably shouldn’t be playing this game. – I have seen this over and over. And if GW2 was a platform jumper or any other traditional “reflex” game, then it would be perfectly valid argument. But it’s not a jumping, or other traditionally “reflex based” game, it’s a high fantasy MMO, the sequel to Guild Wars, which has no jumping mechanic. So with that in mind, can you see why people who don’t enjoy, and aren’t good with reflex based games are buying and playing GW2? Please don’t tell us that we have no business playing this game.

re: – If you can’t jump/jump well, then you certainly aren’t capable of doing the other actions required to play the game. – This does not follow. Not for me, or for some of the others that have posted here. I have fought through “Disturbance in Brisban Wildlands” with my main and 3 alts.(The first segment of LS S2, which requires no jumping or Zephyrite Aspect use.) I have progressed through the Personal Story.(Vigil Path) Obviously I am proficient with other elements of the game play. And I suspect it is the same with others. We didn’t seek to buy a heavily reflex based game, but more and more of that sort of thing is creeping into GW2. If they’re going to change the type of game play in a fundamental way, then they need to change how they represent and advertize this game.

re: It’s selfish of you to want jumping to not be required – No, it’s selfish to want to make jumping required. Excluding people who bought a game not advertized or represented as a jumping/reflex based game.

But none of the above posts touch on difficulties with jumping and Zephyrite Aspects caused by poor quality internet connections, or transient issues with internet connections. Can anyone give us feedback on how effective the update to address heavy lag on certain maps has impacted the issues with Zephyrite skills?(Lag on that map was not so bad for me, though Lightning Pull has glitched several times when I’ve used it.)

spikyblackhair.4951:

Elden Arnaas.4870:

You can tell that some people have never had any difficulty jumping, and just cannot comprehend our point of view. Additionally, some of them are unwilling to accept another point of view. And some of them just come here to be argumentative. These are people we cannot reach, or convince to consider our point of view. They are not receptive, and we should not waste our time(and thread space) responding to them.
We need to respectfully, make our issues known in a clear, concise manner, for the people who are willing to consider another point of view.(hopefully the Anet dev staff) Anything else is a waste of time and effort, and is just cluttering up the thread.

+1… there are people who are for some reason unable to envision any reality that they have not experienced personally. “I’ve never had any problems with jumping, so you’re all noobs using lag as an excuse.” “My graphics card works fine with this particular game, so it must be only you.” “I got a precursor on my tenth try, so the mystic forge works great.” I shudder to think of how they apply this kind of ill-founded “logic” in real world situations. Convincing them is almost always more trouble than it’s worth; fortunately the magic of forums means we don’t have to interact with them at all.

And more to the point of the thread, it’s nice to see that others share my doubts about jumping in gw2. As I’ve stated many times in other places, I just hope the devs eventually come around to recognizing that online 3D platforming with MMO controls and camera schemes presents challenges that make it significantly less enjoyable to many people than the offline 2D games of our youth or Assassin’s Creeds and Uncharteds of today.

I have not had a lot of trouble with the platforming in this release personally, and I’ve completed every JP in the game including the clock tower because I’m an achievement kitten, but it’s just not enjoyable, and it’s not what I want out of an MMO. I respect that some people like it, so I don’t want to see it gone entirely, but I definitely don’t agree with it being tied to living story progression, as the LS will be the core of the game moving forward.

Many +s to both of you!!!
2 great posts.
I haven’t done all the JPs but I pick and choose which one(s) I want to do,if I want to do them,as well as when I want to do them. That mechanic is fine.

re: You are a vegetarian person standing in McDonalds – No, we’re standing in line at a vegetarian restaurant, which also serves some meat to cater to people who aren’t vegetarian/vegan. You are demanding that the restaurant server only meat. And all these dern vegetarians can just find find the door and get out of the way of the meat eaters, who deserve to be here more(in this vegetarian restaurant)
A high fantasy MMO is not a jumping game. GW2 is not a platform jumper. And once again, we’re not asking for these jumping type game play elements to be excluded, just they please be optional.

I find it offensive that they merged all these threads into one giant cesspit, and they put an ignorant and offensive post as the OP…

“the sort a 6 year old might enjoy endlessly”

Offensive. Thanks Anet. Lets leave that up there and call anyone who enjoys legitimate gameplay a 6 year old.

Oh and while we’re at it, lets merge the few “we like jumping” threads into this one and bury them under the mountain of vitriol from those who can’t stand having anything but mindless combat-centered autoattack-fest for content. /sarcasm

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: You are a vegetarian person standing in McDonalds – No, we’re standing in line at a vegetarian restaurant, which also serves some meat to cater to people who aren’t vegetarian/vegan. You are demanding that the restaurant server only meat. And all these dern vegetarians can just find find the door and get out of the way of the meat eaters, who deserve to be here more(in this vegetarian restaurant)
A high fantasy MMO is not a jumping game. GW2 is not a platform jumper. And once again, we’re not asking for these jumping type game play elements to be excluded, just they please be optional.

THEY ARE OPTIONAL

Show me in a video exactly where the patch is gated behind a complicated jumping puzzle. An actual complicated jumping puzzle. AFAIK every instance in this patch involved no more than 2 or 3 ludicrously simple jumps. You literally only have to press one button and you have all day to do it. All I remember were simple, single jumps. You pick up a crystal sitting RIGHT THERE. You turn your character to the left slightly. You aim a single ground target. You press 3. DONE. Show me where you had to do ANYTHING more complicated than that.

But maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I forgot about an entire sequence where you couldnt progress the story because there was a Rube Goldberg-esque jumping puzzle that was 100% required to progress the story. Maybe that slipped my mind. If so please point it out for me.

OR

Maybe we need to define “optional.” YES there is an actual honest to God Jumping Puzzle in Dry Top. To complete the JUMPING PUZZLE You are required to jump.

>aneurysm<—-

Of course you are “required” to jump to do a jumping puzzle. But is the jumping puzzle itself required??? For a couple achievement points MAYBE. Which part of the story takes place INSIDE the jumping puzzle again? Wheres that? Please show me. Show me where the green star at the top of the jumping puzzle is located.

To Equilibriator:

Some people will come to the forums and issue ultimatums or make demands; there are always unreasonable people like that. I think we can agree that those people are ridiculous. Others of us, however, are just here to voice our opinions in a place where Anet is more likely to see them. Those of you who enjoy JPs are completely welcome to voice your opinions as well, and in the end, Anet will choose to do whatever they decide is most commercially expedient for them. The only problem comes when one side actively tries to silence the other through shouting them down rather than reasoned debate, which I think we can all agree is not the way things should be done in a civil society.

I welcome the opinions of anybody who enjoys JPs; what I do not welcome is people who use ad hominem attacks and offhand dismissals in an effort to disgust the opposition to the point where they don’t bother coming to the forums anymore, thereby creating a “safe” community where everybody thinks alike and there’s no pressure for improvement or change in any area.

As to the restaurant metaphor, I am inclined to agree with Arnaas in my vision of what I think a fantasy MMO should be, but I think at the end of the day we can all agree that it’s really Anet’s show, and whether they want the restaurant to be vegetarian or a steak joint is up to them and how they think they can make the most money. Whatever they decide, some customers are going to be happy, while others aren’t. Rather than just silently vanishing into the night, however, I think all old regulars of this restaurant have the right to voice their pleasure or displeasure with the management in the hopes of swaying things their way.

To Xenon:

I won’t speak for everybody in this thread, but I didn’t find the jumping very hard at all, because I agree that it was pretty easy. Yet, neither did I enjoy having to do it. And what I am personally concerned about is not so much the current level of jumping as that this jumping trend will increase in the future, as past releases have suggested that at least some people at Anet love it to death. If jumping worked perfectly with 0 latency when you hit the spacebar, if this was being played on a platform where system specs were the same and lag/frame rates were a non-issue for everybody, and if lightning tethers didn’t drop you halfway across a gap at random times, I would say fine, I’m okay with playing a jumping MMO. However, I just don’t think it’s implemented well enough to be continually leaned upon throughout the course of the LS, and for the sake of future releases since Anet needs to hear things months in advance, I am voicing my concerns now. If it works great for you and you don’t mind it or even love it, that’s great. Please tell Anet.

What I really find disgusting, however, is that there seems to be a disproportionate amount of pro-jumping advocates who choose to forward their cause by insulting and attempting to drive away the anti-jumping camp, while I don’t as see much of that the other way around. Perhaps it’s just confirmation bias, but I can’t recall seeing an anti-jumping person insult someone who loves the mechanic simply for that fact alone, and I find that kind of behavior extremely distasteful. Insulting someone for not enjoying platforming makes about as much sense as claiming that if you didn’t like L4D it must be because you’re afraid of zombies or that if you disliked CoD: Ghosts you’re an alien sympathizer.

Have any of us who have jumping difficulties been able to get someone to portal you to an area where you can safely get to the Prosperity waypoint? Or to where you can talk to the Living Story NPC’s? Ironically, there’s usually a portal offer every few minutes for the thing that is supposed to be restricted by jumping type content.(the jumping puzzle)
But has anyone been able to get a portal to the things that aren’t supposed to be restricted by jumping challenges?(Prosperity waypoint, and Living Story)

spikyblackhair.4951:

To Xenon:

I am personally concerned about is not so much the current level of jumping as that this jumping trend will increase in the future,

What makes you think it will? Which patches were jump-centric? The zephyrite stuff always was, but that’s the point. That’s what they are about. The aspect crystals are part of them as much as golems are a part of the asura. SAB is jump-centric but it’s been a seasonal release and I don’t see any way of them shoving SAB in to the living story, especially right now.

What I really find disgusting, however, is that there seems to be a disproportionate amount of pro-jumping advocates who choose to forward their cause by insulting and attempting to drive away the anti-jumping camp, while I don’t as see much of that the other way around. Perhaps it’s just confirmation bias, but I can’t recall seeing an anti-jumping person insult someone who loves the mechanic simply for that fact alone, and I find that kind of behavior extremely distasteful…

Funny, did you read the OP of this thread?

“something a 6 year old might enjoy”

You think I like being called a six year old for liking jumping mechanics? The anti-jumpers are just as wildly insulting. And you think the number of pro-jumpers is disproportionately larger than the anti-jumpers? There were at least 4 anti-jump threads the day this patch launched. Mine was the only pro-jump thread, and it got eaten by this thread when they merged everything.

What is really disgusting is the way people perform mental gymnastics to turn an easy jump in a story instance into a Rube Goldberg-esque jumping conundrum, where the latency is magically so bad that you end up teleporting in to World of Warcraft and the sky explodes and unicorns fly out of Colin Johanson’s butt.

How about we tell the truth?

At 20:10 until 20:20 is the TRUTH of the “ludicrous jumping” in this patch. What. A. Joke.

Please folks. Watch those 10 seconds. Tell me if that’s really something worth freaking out about? Are we not making a GIANT MOUNTAIN out of a tiny molehill?