Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

All content in every LS could be experienced.

But not — and this is the important bit that I think you missed — at my own pace.

BobbyStein.2315:

This is a common complaint, and one that we’re very aware of. We’re discussing a variety of ideas that will allow players more flexibility in experiencing the Living World content, but we’re not ready to announce the details since the designs aren’t finalized yet.

Bobby, thank you very much for your reply. It was very much appreciated. :-)

ETA: I do hope you guys don’t wait too much longer before announcing some of those details, however. This really is a deal-breaker for some of us.

vitali.1609:

Dont bring that crap back, twice was one too many times for that lame content.
Flame and Frost coming back? Would like a chance at those firey looking weapons without having to waste gold or money on BLC keys .

I just wan’t that Jetpack X-(

but really, I actually enjoyed every living world release MORE than SAB2. I know everyone complains about something, but I enjoy having something to look forward to on a continuing basis.

People screaming for expansion vs LW will get the expansion, burn through it like they do all the other content, and then complain again. I’d say the only drawback so far to living world is CONSTANTLY hearing these complaints because they run into that same empty finished feeling after burning/skimming through a LW update every other week.

It is like making dinner for a Norn. You can make a nice big juicy steak dinner…. mmmm or small savory pieces of steak, each flavored differently, but alll good and filling… mmmm…

BUT THAT NORN WILL DEVOUR THEM BOTH WITHOUT CHEWING OR TASTING.

Then…. he will ask for more, but not because he/she enjoyed it, he/she is just a hungry Norn, here to consume, and move on to the next.

I’m not a fan of SAB either. I feel car sick when playing any 16-bit style 3D game. I can’t play Minecraft either.

A lot of concepts in SAB are cool. I wish it had been a more serious, story-driven solo dungeon that was permanent content. As it is, it’s a waste for me personally (though I know others love it).

As you asked for feeback Bobby I thought I would give you some, mainly about SAB. To this day I love SAB the original release, very reminiscent of Zelda Ocarina of Time and other games I love.

However the learning curve and overall difficulty of world 2 was too steep. The larger levels was nice but without a checkpoint to return to at a later date makes it so you can only play it if you have plenty of free time. Another thing, insta kills during normal play is not fun, have the traps and falling off the world remove hearts instead of killing you, that would be much more casual friendly.

I would essentially like to see all the troll mechanics left in tribulation mode. Platforms that require you to hover with one foot off the edge should be widened for two feet and jumps that require you to glitch your way up should not be required and rethought. As for rewards you need some outside SAB incentive to play, karma, gold, materials (not bloodstone dust) something of value beyond cosmetic or SAB use only.

I am fine for people wanting harder content, just do not subject the rest of us to it. Make tribulation mode 2 or something, just do not give them additional rewards for it.

As for other Living Story things, I want another council vote, it is time Evon got his rightful place. The Bazzar should come back but do not make it a repeat like you did with the disappointing Wintersday. Lastly I want to see the Consortium come back exploiting some other region/people.

I like SAB as it was – something quirky and different. I would like to see the MOTO story advanced, as long as it remains as light-weight as the rest of the environment. (Only so much gloom and doom a person can take)

I would like to see it addressed that the princess is only MOTO in a wig and dress

BobbyStein.2315:

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

More Moto in the SAB releases, new worlds but not like the open air worlds like the ninja temples. Content difficuly (all three modes) was fine.

Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Other LW releases that delve into the existing lore (please read that as non or pre-Scarlet) would be wonderful. Bazaar of the Four Winds gave us a group of people that mourned Glint’s death and even showed a bit of what happened after her death.

I would love to see something that bridges the gap between GW Beyond and GW2.
In future releases if there has to be a villain is there a possibility that it will deviate from the pattern we had with Scarlet’s releases?

It is rather difficult to act like there is suspense when a “mysterious person” is described when we knew she was behind quite a lot of the previous mysterious stuff.

Wait.. What? You’re not working on SAB 3 already?

Of course I want it back! It was by far my favorite update.
World 2 just needs some tweaks and after the patch it was a lot better already.
Please unleash Josh Foreman on the forums, we love the guy, he did a great job and communicated really well with us after SAB release, bring him back
He knows what went wrong with SAB2, he already collected lots of early feedback back then, I trust him to do wonders in SAB3!

I’d also like to point out something about event participation. I participated heavily in both SAB 2 and scarlet invasion, actually I probably spent more time fighting scarlet than jumping around in SAB.
You don’t consider something. I ran SAB because it was fun and I liked the skins (especially tribulation ones), but mainly because it was fun.
Scarlet was fun the first day. But then I kept on doing it, not because it was super fun (it was a laggy zerg most of the time), but because it was profitable.
To me, SAB was a lot more successful, even if I spent more time fighting Scarlet.
In the end, SAB is what’s gonna keep me playing.

BobbyStein.2315:

Azure Prower.8701:

… onto the compost heap.

Are we going to get SAB returning shortly after?

Because lets be honest. This is the only living world update the majority of people enjoyed.

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

I wouldn’t recommend putting SAB back into the game. It was great, let’s keep it that way. If you keep milking it, it will just get stale.

It is a great mystery to me why in the world of Tyria, where gigantic events take place and huge godlike dragons plan the destruction of everything and everyone, the focus is on things like SAB. I know there are a lot of people that enjoyed SAB, but I am certainly not one of them. If I wanted to play oldschool jumping games with pixelated graphics, I would do so; I certainly don’t want to be confronted by such things while playing GW2.

GW2 needs more GW2 in it, not silly add-ons.

If people enjoyed SAB, then it should definitely be present, but why make such a big fuss over something that has so little connection to the world of Tyria?! IMO, any SAB updates should not be considered as main LW updates, but that’s probably what we will get.

After the epicness of the Clockwork Chaos event and all events that preceeded it, ANet has really taken the foot off the pedal with LW events. They have all been small and secondary (SAB, revamping Teq, TA new path, even the Tower of Nightmares was small in comparison to what we got prior to SAB 2). Why is this?! ANet was going in a good direction with events that got bigger and bigger (you know, like they promised some while ago), but then suddenly stopped. I don’t even want to get into the Fractured update, when they mercilessly deleted player progression. It was all very dissapointing for me, I had high expectations of what could become of the Living World. I imagine that making such large events every 2 weeks ate up a lot of resources, but I assumed they did take this into account when they said that LW events will get larger and have a bigger impact on the world.

I am curious as to what the conclusion of the Scarlet story ark will be, but I don’t dare to hope it will be as glorious as the events of last summer. Time will tell.

As far as SAB returning, I’ve said in the past I personally don’t like it as much as the rest of GW2 and if I had a choice I’d rather any of the other content updates over new SAB content (I understand the designers behind SAB are very passionate and there is definitely an audience for that content in GW2 as the OP demonstrates).

Having said that, the most interesting part of SAB to me last release was that there was an actual story to it. I liked the asura krewe working on Moto’s work and the conflict that was established between the two. Honestly I found it more interesting than Scarlet. I did initially think there may have been a link between Scarlet’s Eternal Alchemy seeing device and the SAB research but I now think SAB is its own contained story which kinda disappoints me because a virtual reality game in Tyria isn’t that interesting on its own imo.

I expect SAB to return in April because it was popular and there is passion behind creating it but for me personally it’s a couple weeks off from the Living Story treadmill. I’ll probably check it out (especially if there is story involved) but it doesn’t hold my attention. As others have said, it was a fun novelty and a bit of a surprise but if I want to play a platformer I have options outside of GW2.

Eh, I’m kind of bored of SAB at this point. It’s fun to have, and it would be nice if it were just brought back ontop of another content release, and not as the primary theme. I’m really only interested in the goings on of the world of GW2/Tyria.

BobbyStein.2315:

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

True, but metrics don’t say everything either. For example, I’ve played through most of the Scarlet story because I’m a completionist, but I played through the SAB because I liked it. Neither metrics nor personal anecdotes truly show wheter players enjoyed certain content or not.

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

New story, and more Moto :-) . I play rpg’s for the stories and the lore first and foremost. Games tend to deviate from story to graphics more and more these days. Well, there are SNES rpgs that suck in graphics yet have wonderful stories, making me want to replay them even today. :-)

BobbyStein.2315:

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

This made me laugh. People on the forums try every possible method to convince Anet to do things the way a particular poster wants. All sorts of attempted reverse psychology and personal insults trying to convince Anet no one wants to play content that that poster didn’t enjoy. And the whole time Anet is looking at the stats and seeing “oh hey, people loved playing _”. I for one can not stand SAB, but realize a lot of other people like it.

I find it all very amusing.

BobbyStein.2315:

minbariguy.7504:

BobbyStein.2315:

[SNIP] …Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Honestly, it does not matter what topics are covered in the LW releases; if I cannot play through the content at my own pace, I will not play it at all. It is so frustrating to have my play timeframe constantly dictated by ANet. You folks put a lot of work into this stuff, I know, but my enjoyment of it is completely spoiled by the stress of waiting for the carrot to be yanked away.

This is a common complaint, and one that we’re very aware of. We’re discussing a variety of ideas that will allow players more flexibility in experiencing the Living World content, but we’re not ready to announce the details since the designs aren’t finalized yet.

Good to see you back on the forums Bobby. Interested in what the next patches reveal in terms of story content, hopefully we are blown away.

BobbyStein.2315:

Azure Prower.8701:

… onto the compost heap.

Are we going to get SAB returning shortly after?

Because lets be honest. This is the only living world update the majority of people enjoyed.

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

I kinda like SAB being broken up in sections (world releases that is), but I’d love to be able to still play existing worlds inbetween releases.

As for content, I’m kinda ok with making it slightly more hard with each release, but the harder the level/zone is, the shorter the map (completion time) should be, especially since you guys said its not technically feasible to add saving points/ways to load back in at a certain section. I definitely want more worlds, with which I’d be happier with more zones that cover just as much content than the same number of zones but a lot longer (which is what mad me dislike world 2).

As for the story, I don’t mind having more Moto story, was kinda interesting having to outside the SAB to learn more about Moto (in that he stole or did something to that other krewe).

Fluffball.8307:

And the whole time Anet is looking at the stats and seeing “oh hey, people loved playing _”.

I don’t think the metrics that ANet has from their own monitoring of the game are conclusive to what people liked to play, just conclusive to what people actually played. I played through a lot of content I did not like just because I wanted completion and the AP, and I sincerely doubt I am alone in this.

I loathed every second I was in the Tower of Nightmares and I felt the sky fell on me every time another event popped and I couldn’t go further to reach the top before I finished it. But I spent some time there doing content just to get the achievements.

minbariguy.7504:

BobbyStein.2315:

[SNIP] …Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Honestly, it does not matter what topics are covered in the LW releases; if I cannot play through the content at my own pace, I will not play it at all. It is so frustrating to have my play timeframe constantly dictated by ANet. You folks put a lot of work into this stuff, I know, but my enjoyment of it is completely spoiled by the stress of waiting for the carrot to be yanked away.

Yeah this has always been on my mind. I think the only reason they have the numbers on each of the LS is because we’re forced to do it, if we want the AP or the skin reward for that patch.

Ayrilana.1396:

Old school games rarely had a backstory or motive. Do you know why Bowser would always try to kidnap Princess Toadstool?

Did we need a reason to go kick the turtle’s butt other than to save a princess? Why else do people always try to kidnap princesses? Look at Ice King in Adventure Time.

BobbyStein.2315:

minbariguy.7504:

BobbyStein.2315:

[SNIP] …Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Honestly, it does not matter what topics are covered in the LW releases; if I cannot play through the content at my own pace, I will not play it at all. It is so frustrating to have my play timeframe constantly dictated by ANet. You folks put a lot of work into this stuff, I know, but my enjoyment of it is completely spoiled by the stress of waiting for the carrot to be yanked away.

This is a common complaint, and one that we’re very aware of. We’re discussing a variety of ideas that will allow players more flexibility in experiencing the Living World content, but we’re not ready to announce the details since the designs aren’t finalized yet.

I can see it now!

Super Adventure Box – World 5

T. E. R. D. I. S.
Tyria’s Earlier Releases Delivered In Style

For the first time ever! Own your very own box! Complete 13/13 achievements and a box will be delivered to your home instance. The box will replace your home instance and allow instant access to any place in time and space….so long as that time and space is a previous Living Story release. Did we mention that it’s bigger on the outside?…sunnier out there too.

“Boxes are cool.” – Moto

I want SAB back, but more so I want Rox, Braham, Kasmeer, and Marjory to try it out. Maybe some clever, witty comments like “Kasmeer, you cannot just portal to the end” or a reference to Moto’s marketing scheme of saying “it’s too hard for you” to norns and charr working on our original duo.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

I don’t think the metrics that ANet has from their own monitoring of the game are conclusive to what people liked to play, just conclusive to what people actually played. I played through a lot of content I did not like just because I wanted completion and the AP, and I sincerely doubt I am alone in this.

I loathed every second I was in the Tower of Nightmares and I felt the sky fell on me every time another event popped and I couldn’t go further to reach the top before I finished it. But I spent some time there doing content just to get the achievements.

You probably didn’t continue playing it heavily for 2 weeks then, but rather stopped around the first day. Some updates are clearly things people want to keep playing and playing. If there would have been more to do in the Zephyr Sanctum I could have played that for weeks. It was sad when I finished all the achievements.

Dondagora.9645:

I want SAB back, but more so I want Rox, Braham, Kasmeer, and Marjory to try it out. Maybe some clever, witty comments like “Kasmeer, you cannot just portal to the end” or a reference to Moto’s marketing scheme of saying “it’s too hard for you” to norns and charr working on our original duo.

I would rather see something along the lines of “Kasmeer, your illusions don’t work in here…”

If you know what I mean.

skullmount.1758:

minbariguy.7504:

BobbyStein.2315:

[SNIP] …Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Honestly, it does not matter what topics are covered in the LW releases; if I cannot play through the content at my own pace, I will not play it at all. It is so frustrating to have my play timeframe constantly dictated by ANet. You folks put a lot of work into this stuff, I know, but my enjoyment of it is completely spoiled by the stress of waiting for the carrot to be yanked away.

Yeah this has always been on my mind. I think the only reason they have the numbers on each of the LS is because we’re forced to do it, if we want the AP or the skin reward for that patch.

Ayrilana.1396:

Old school games rarely had a backstory or motive. Do you know why Bowser would always try to kidnap Princess Toadstool?

Did we need a reason to go kick the turtle’s butt other than to save a princess? Why else do people always try to kidnap princesses? Look at Ice King in Adventure Time.

And that’s my point. You don’t need a backstory or anything for SAB.

BobbyStein.2315:

Azure Prower.8701:

… onto the compost heap.

Are we going to get SAB returning shortly after?

Because lets be honest. This is the only living world update the majority of people enjoyed.

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

@ the bolded: Participating to get AP/meta rewards/avoid falling behind in grind and co./etc. (or all at once) is/are not the same as enjoying the content.

Actually, SAB was fine for as long as it was an April’s Fools joke (I despised it even then, but at least it didn’t intrude on lore). Its return and establishment within the Guild Wars universe in September, however, was a huge slap-in-the-face for both fans and the setting.

So after Ms Villain Sue von L’ore ‘n Plot Blackhole is gone (shame for not retconning her out), I’d like the return of content quality to the level of Flame & Frost: The Razing, F&F: Retribution, and most of all: Bazaar of the Four Winds. With less grind, more meaningful, permanent content (that lasts longer than 5 hours), no more lore desecration but mending and building on established, existent, and awesome loose ends and plots from Guild Wars or the good parts of Guild Wars 2.

BobbyStein.2315:

Azure Prower.8701:

… onto the compost heap.

Are we going to get SAB returning shortly after?

Because lets be honest. This is the only living world update the majority of people enjoyed.

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

I’m not a fan of Scarlet, but I understand that there’s a fair share of players that like her. I didn’t really like how the majority of LW was done in 2013, but again I understand a lot of people liked it. I guess of the things that I did like out of LW I liked SAB, and Teq, because they were stand alone events. I don’t really like how much of it was tied together and then released bi weekly. I didn’t really feel any sense of pacing, and to me the story wasn’t very engaging, I felt like if I wasn’t there the day would still be saved, there was no sense of jeopardy I suppose. Much like the personal story, my character felt superfluous to the LW story.

I would rather see more stand alone events in the LW, I think trying to tell a major story should be something that is done in an expansion. So that players can play it at their own pace. Is GW2 ready for an expansion? Probably not but hints would be good I think, next year, yes an expansion would be highly desired. Well what I’m saying is from my point of view GW2 has been out for almost a year and a half. So it’s not quite expansion ready yet. But I do think the writing team could make a great story for an expansion. I would like to play something that can be really fleshed out and I know you guys could do it, but I feel like you’re too constrained with LW pacing.

I am content to play SAB or other LW updates that may come out in similar fashion until then, the stand alone updates. I liked both installments of SAB, doing more with Moto is probably a good idea, because it’s something that can be kept light. If a player missed out on SAB then they can be caught up with a sentence or two. Oh that’s Moto he made SAB, he clearly likes video games he’s one of us personified within GW2. As for difficulty, that’s a tough one, I would say play to both sides of the isle, by simply making the first world in the next installment farily easy and fun to give returning players something to warm up to and new players can jump in with their veteran friends and not feel left out because they don’t have the candles or bombs. Then progress forward with more difficulty in the next world or zone to catch back up to some more brutal play that the more hardcore players want to see. There should be at least one zone for each kind of player.

minbariguy.7504:

Ayrilana.1396:

All content in every LS could be experienced.

But not — and this is the important bit that I think you missed — _at my own pace.

Perhaps you should read the rest of my post that you did not quote.

I would love to see another small, separate, fun and lighthearted story arc much like Kieran Thackery/Gwen wedding from GW1. Something that is started and concluded in one, maybe two, releases. Something that also isn’t just an achievement grind, and focuses on story and building characters. They could have done so much more with Evon Knashblade and Ellen Kiel, but they turned them into instance grinds instead of fun interactions with interesting NPCs.

I don’t care if it’s challenging. I don’t care if I get a cool item. I don’t even care if it gives almost no achievement points.

I want something fun and interesting, and I want to be able to replay it any time I want.

+1 @Shack, pretty much sums up my thoughts. I play games for stories first, everything else long, loong way behind it. Until better days I’ll still be sitting mostly on forums an playing Myth: The Fallen Lords, only occasionally poking in GW2.

Shack.9081:

I would love to see another small, separate, fun and lighthearted story arc much like Kieran Thackery/Gwen wedding from GW1. Something that is started and concluded in one, maybe two, releases. Something that also isn’t just an achievement grind, and focuses on story and building characters. They could have done so much more with Evon Knashblade and Ellen Kiel, but they turned them into instance grinds instead of fun interactions with interesting NPCs.

I don’t care if it’s challenging. I don’t care if I get a cool item. I don’t even care if it gives almost no achievement points.

I want something fun and interesting, and I want to be able to replay it any time I want.

I love everything you typed, Shack.

Seems they could also do multiple simultaneous zone-by-zone story arcs if the teams release smaller updates. It could help spread out the population rather than funneling everyone onto a single map for a lag-filled, 24/7 zergfest. Each LS team could then also focus on a complete story for their set of assigned zones rather than attempting the insertion of a contiguous and major release between two other separate LS teams. You could still have the massive world-changing events but just maybe less frequently. Those larger events could then also be tended by a separate team which would coordinate, when necessary, with the zonal LS teams in order to maintain coherence in the over-arching plot lines.

And I really don’t like a two week release schedule. I would much prefer to be surprised and have the content released when it is absolutely ready. This is assuming, of course, a more permanent nature to the content releases. I wouldn’t want to be surprised that I was one LS currency away from a skin and the content was suddenly removed without warning.

BobbyStein.2315:

Azure Prower.8701:

… onto the compost heap.

Are we going to get SAB returning shortly after?

Because lets be honest. This is the only living world update the majority of people enjoyed.

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

It would be interesting to hear about some of the metrics that are allowed to be shared. You are right, the forums colour perception, so hearing the about the reality wouldn’t be a bad thing.

As for SAB? Keep it simple. Keep what made the first release so great – short, punchy and nostalgic rich levels. World 2 started taking itself too seriously and the difficulty curve spiked somewhat. I personally didnt like tribulation mode as a concept, but at least the “hard mode” stuff can be kept there where it belongs.

Also – whilst it was incredibly popular, it did alienate some players for not being directly in the GW2 World/story etc. Worth having it run alongside a major story release, but keeping it around for longer (maybe 6-8 weeks) so everyone is kept happy.

BobbyStein.2315:

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Thanks for weighing in on this topic; it’s nice to hear from you guys when you get the chance to converse with us. As to your metrics, I just want to point out (and I’m sure you already know this) that there’s a difference between participation and enjoyment. If you put enough achievement points or a flashy enough weapon/armor skin at the end of a root canal, I suspect there would be no shortage of players willing to suffer through it to get their carrot.

Perhaps you guys could implement some sort of in-game survey after completion of various content/activities (similar to those used during the BWEs)? I wouldn’t force players to take the survey, so I’d tuck it away in the UI menu somewhere. But it could be a useful tool to determine what players actually enjoy, as opposed to whether or not they’re just showing up for the rewards. It may be the case that you guys don’t care if we enjoy it so long as we’re participating, but hopefully that’s not the case.

darkace.8925:

Perhaps you guys could implement some sort of in-game survey after completion of various content/activities (similar to those used during the BWEs)?

I miss filling those out, they were kind of fun and didn’t take that much time to do, having them optional is a good idea though. Just as long as the player is aware that they are there.

For anyone who’s wondering what metrics are, this 5 min video sums up what they are, and how they can be used. I learned about them a few months ago myself.

I would actually be interested in some kind of data which tells how many people continued playing a LW update after they had their Achievement meta filled. Is that something you can share?

darkace.8925:

Perhaps you guys could implement some sort of in-game survey after completion of various content/activities (similar to those used during the BWEs)? I wouldn’t force players to take the survey, so I’d tuck it away in the UI menu somewhere. But it could be a useful tool to determine what players actually enjoy, as opposed to whether or not they’re just showing up for the rewards. It may be the case that you guys don’t care if we enjoy it so long as we’re participating, but hopefully that’s not the case.

That option I would cherish very much!

darkace.8925:

BobbyStein.2315:

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Thanks for weighing in on this topic; it’s nice to hear from you guys when you get the chance to converse with us. As to your metrics, I just want to point out (and I’m sure you already know this) that there’s a difference between participation and enjoyment. If you put enough achievement points or a flashy enough weapon/armor skin at the end of a root canal, I suspect there would be no shortage of players willing to suffer through it to get their carrot.

Perhaps you guys could implement some sort of in-game survey after completion of various content/activities (similar to those used during the BWEs)? I wouldn’t force players to take the survey, so I’d tuck it away in the UI menu somewhere. But it could be a useful tool to determine what players actually enjoy, as opposed to whether or not they’re just showing up for the rewards. It may be the case that you guys don’t care if we enjoy it so long as we’re participating, but hopefully that’s not the case.

Something like that was suggested in the first (iirc) CDI. I do kinda wish there was some way of polling people at the end, and not just on the forum (since that is coloured as you guys put it). Then it is kinda the own persons fault they don’t fill it out and give their feedback.

Ayrilana.1396:

minbariguy.7504:

Ayrilana.1396:

All content in every LS could be experienced.

But not — and this is the important bit that I think you missed — _at my own pace.

Perhaps you should read the rest of my post that you did not quote.

I read it. It wasn’t necessary to quote your second sentence because it did not change the fact that you were ignoring the “at my own pace” part of my post as hard as you possibly could.

I’m not going to get into a debate with you when your premise is based on the fallacy that we can play every single Living Story release at our own pace when even ANet says that the temporary nature of these releases it is a common complaint and that they are looking into the matter.

You may of course continue to have this conversation with yourself if it will make you feel better.

skullmount.1758:

darkace.8925:

BobbyStein.2315:

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Thanks for weighing in on this topic; it’s nice to hear from you guys when you get the chance to converse with us. As to your metrics, I just want to point out (and I’m sure you already know this) that there’s a difference between participation and enjoyment. If you put enough achievement points or a flashy enough weapon/armor skin at the end of a root canal, I suspect there would be no shortage of players willing to suffer through it to get their carrot.

Perhaps you guys could implement some sort of in-game survey after completion of various content/activities (similar to those used during the BWEs)? I wouldn’t force players to take the survey, so I’d tuck it away in the UI menu somewhere. But it could be a useful tool to determine what players actually enjoy, as opposed to whether or not they’re just showing up for the rewards. It may be the case that you guys don’t care if we enjoy it so long as we’re participating, but hopefully that’s not the case.

Something like that was suggested in the first (iirc) CDI. I do kinda wish there was some way of polling people at the end, and not just on the forum (since that is coloured as you guys put it). Then it is kinda the own persons fault they don’t fill it out and give their feedback.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the questions. There were some questions during the beta where it felt like they were phrased in such a way that it was trying to lead people to a certain answer. You could answer more appropriately but then it felt like you were no longer responding to the question being. I don’t remember the questions but I remember my own reaction to them.

BobbyStein.2315:

skullmount.1758:

Something like that was suggested in the first (iirc) CDI. I do kinda wish there was some way of polling people at the end, and not just on the forum (since that is coloured as you guys put it). Then it is kinda the own persons fault they don’t fill it out and give their feedback.

We used in-game polls during the beta events a long time ago. Not sure what it’d take to get them in the live client but it’s worth discussing internally, if only to weigh the pros and cons. I’ll talk with the other leads about it soon. No promises on the outcome, though.

Perhaps you could allow users to “opt-in” to feedback during certain events(in options maybe?). You would only get feedback from people who want to give feedback, and you would only have read through those submissions as a result. It would, hopefully, be mostly constructive and not just complaining in general. I would absolutely opt-in if I knew that I was part of a production build review group.

BobbyStein.2315:

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

Hi Bobby, with a bunch of people begging for mind-numbingly difficult content in SAB, I’d like to throw in my two cents: difficult content would be good… if it’s kept in tribulation mode.

I really loved the first release of SAB, but world 2 took such a leap in difficulty, not just in that the enemies were more difficult, but the levels were insanely long in comparison to world 1, and there were so many other ways to die (insta-kill traps, things launching projectiles that would knock you down and potentially off a cliff face) that it became less fun and more of a chore to get through the levels. I loved the aesthetic and the game play of SAB, so it was sad to see my enjoyment of the release drop quickly when it came to world 2. I think tribulation mode was an awesome idea, since people had the choice of easier or harder content, but regular mode world 2 felt like what I’d imagine tribulation mode would be (world 2 was so frustrating for me that I steered away from tribulation mode completely, so I can’t say how much more difficult it was in there).

I’ll admit that world 1 is pretty dang easy if you get used to doing the levels repeatedly, so I wouldn’t mind an increase in difficulty from there. But making the levels double or triple the size AND making everything so much harder felt too big a change for me in world 2. -waits anxiously for people to tell me off for thinking things are too hard-

Oh and as for Moto story, I would be interested in learning a bit more about him but it’s not a necessity, and of course I would love to see a world 3 and would figure each release of SAB would include a new world!

Here are some previous comments that I agree with:

skullmount.1758:

As for content, I’m kinda ok with making it slightly more hard with each release, but the harder the level/zone is, the shorter the map (completion time) should be, especially since you guys said its not technically feasible to add saving points/ways to load back in at a certain section.

Zaxares.5419:

In terms of difficulty, I think that World 2 was a bit excessive compared to World 1. I completed it (and enjoyed it), but I feel that the massive jump in difficulty also killed a lot of desire by the wider community to repeat the content. Tribulation Mode exists for those who want a challenge; I urge you guys to keep World 2 (and subsequent Worlds) nearer the length and difficulty of World 1, so more players are willing to form groups and head in.

Aedelric.1287:

However the learning curve and overall difficulty of world 2 was too steep. The larger levels was nice but without a checkpoint to return to at a later date makes it so you can only play it if you have plenty of free time. Another thing, insta kills during normal play is not fun, have the traps and falling off the world remove hearts instead of killing you, that would be much more casual friendly.

I would essentially like to see all the troll mechanics left in tribulation mode.

I am fine for people wanting harder content, just do not subject the rest of us to it.

minbariguy.7504:

Ayrilana.1396:

minbariguy.7504:

Ayrilana.1396:

All content in every LS could be experienced.

But not — and this is the important bit that I think you missed — _at my own pace.

Perhaps you should read the rest of my post that you did not quote.

I read it. It wasn’t necessary to quote your second sentence because it did not change the fact that you were ignoring the “at my own pace” part of my post as hard as you possibly could.

I’m not going to get into a debate with you when your premise is based on the fallacy that we can play every single Living Story release at our own pace when even ANet says that the temporary nature of these releases it is a common complaint and that they are looking into the matter.

You may of course continue to have this conversation with yourself if it will make you feel better.

The story pieces of all living story content can be completed in under an hour easily. The only thing that takes more time are the achievements that try to keep you busy. For most living stories updates, people have been able to complete all of those achievements within a matter of hours.

I stated there was a difference between content that reveals part of the living story versus content that serves as busy work such as going across various parts of the world and activating some object or doing some task for some arbitrary number of times.

BobbyStein.2315:

Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Right now it seems that for pve content the LW alternates between minigames/jumping puzzles, dungeons, holidays, and open world content releases. There is story content as well but it is often very short. In addition to these types of LW updates I would like longer story-focused updates every few months (or whatever time frame makes sense) added to the rotation of types of content that are the main focus of a particular LW release. Perhaps use the Personal Story system and have new updates to it via LW when it is time for a new story-focused LW release.

As a side note, now that Bobby is back on the forums, I was wondering about something. It would be very interesting to me, to learn more about the writing process for the Living Story. Specifically in regards to Scarlet. If the forums are any indication, Scarlet’s character is not without it’s controversy. Some players like her as a character, and some players absolutely despise her (as in, they literally hate how she is written). I’d love to learn more about how these characters come to be, and how the writing team handles the feedback, be it positive or negative. And based on that feedback, how do you decide on the ending of the arc of that character? Do you kill her off when the feedback is overwhelmingly negative? Or keep her around when people like her? And does player-opinion factor in at all when making such important story decisions, or was her end already planned out months ago in advance?

2 words: Elder Dragon. This would be perfect after Scarlet. Elder Dragon + new map(s).

BobbyStein.2315:

Azure Prower.8701:

… onto the compost heap.

Are we going to get SAB returning shortly after?

Because lets be honest. This is the only living world update the majority of people enjoyed.

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?
.

Hi!

I’m going to be very blunt.
I loved the original SAB because it was nostalgic. It was somewhat challenging, but brief, and left out the less desirable aspects of 8-bit gaming (high difficulty, long levels, lots of grinding, etc).

I never even finished infantile mode of SAB2. Why? Because it added all the things about 8-bit gaming that I never wanted to remember.

As far as Moto goes – I really don’t care about his story.

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

There will be plenty of people unhappy with whatever they release after Scarlet is gone.

With that being said, bring on the SAB. Nao.

Edit: Didn’t the “majority of people” enjoy Bazaar of the Four Winds? I didn’t see many complaints about it. It was one of my favorites :P

Just release SAB as a standalone game for all the lovers here. I’m not a fan of it. Didn’t buy this game to play in a pixel-world.

For the love of god… NO more SAB. Thats the ONLY content I find utterly BORING!

Anythingg else have at least been fun…. SAB not at all! I havn’t bothered with a single achivement with it. I honestly don’t Think it belongs in the game at all.

Pls give us story/lore-related content instead!

BobbyStein.2315:

Azure Prower.8701:

… onto the compost heap.

Are we going to get SAB returning shortly after?

Because lets be honest. This is the only living world update the majority of people enjoyed.

Actually, we have metrics on every LW release. While SAB was indeed successful in terms of participation, so were the other releases (Scarlet ones included). I understand that forum feedback can color perception on which releases were the most popular/best received/most enjoyed but opinions on this are largely anecdotal. Please keep that in mind.

Now to your question: will we see a return of SAB? That’s not for me to say, but if it were to come back, what would people like to see from it? Harder/easier content? New world? More/no Moto story?

Or would you like future LW releases to cover other topics? Share your thoughts, but please keep it constructive. Thanks.

Hi Bobby,
I find SAB one of the best things about GW2. However, this is not a platform game, so if you release next SAB chapter it shouldn’t be solely about SAB, but also about events impacting the game world.

Of course, you should continue Moto story, it was interesting. And I think that difficulty of World 2 was the point which you shouldn’t cross in next releases (maybe in hard mode.)

I have 2 requests for you:
1. Divide Zones into shorter areas, so people won’t have to play 2,5 hour to finish the W2Z3…
2. After finishing all four worlds of SAB, make it permanent content on your third anniversary or something.

SAB should just be turned into an Activity in Metrica Province. Have it scale so people can solo it if they want.

nexxe.7081:

SAB should just be turned into an Activity in Metrica Province. Have it scale so people can solo it if they want.

SAB have always been soloable.