Guild Wars 2

The trait, Automated response Stops all conditions at 25% hp from being applied. Given so many classes play condition builds, this one trait can make almost all condition builds useless vs engineers. It also allows them to troll in a map. Three condition players may not even be able to take down an engineer with this trait on.

My suggestion, please give the trait a cool-down or allow other players to remove conditions as well as the engineer can.

Zelulose.8695:

Given so many classes play condition builds, this one trait can make almost all condition builds useless vs engineers.

Or, everyone reroll bunker engi and then maybe everyone will stop running full condi cleave.

Nikkle.4013:

Zelulose.8695:

Given so many classes play condition builds, this one trait can make almost all condition builds useless vs engineers.

Or, everyone reroll bunker engi and then maybe everyone will stop running full condi cleave.

I don’t wan’t the whole “reroll engineer because they are op” but I’m tired of them running around the whole map just because they can’t be killed if the spec to troll

It’s not immunity anymore (was actually nerfed in that regard already). Most condition builds have some type of +% condition duration. Previously applied conditions still tick. It’s been in since launch, and it used to be considered a trait to rarely even take because of power builds running around, but now since people are playing the “puke out as many conditions as I can” meta there is more whining. Coincidence?

So, there is a build or two in the game that actually might help counter conditions and there is a problem…. whereas there are plenty of counter builds to different type of power… come on and think.

Kuju.2153:

It’s not immunity anymore (was actually nerfed in that regard already). Most condition builds have some type of +% condition duration. Previously applied conditions still tick. It’s been in since launch, and it used to be considered a trait to rarely even take because of power builds running around, but now since people are playing the “puke out as many conditions as I can” meta there is more whining. Coincidence?

So, there is a build or two in the game that actually might help counter conditions and there is a problem…. whereas there are plenty of counter builds to different type of power… come on and think.

I know that the conditions are not removed at 25% but they cant be applied at 25% hp.
It is immunity still and once they reach 25% hp they just cleanse the conditions they already have. With condition classes or specs, It is impossible to kill them if they just heal up and don’t attack you no matter how much condition duration you have.

Zelulose.8695:

I don’t wan’t the whole “reroll engineer because they are op” but I’m tired of them running around the whole map just because they can’t be killed if the spec to troll

Guess I should be clear in the point im trying to make. The trait only seems strong because everyone has picked up faceroll condi cleave comps. The trait has been like that for a while, yet people said the engi’s running elixir r or hgh needed to be nerfed. Engies can still be burst down.

But to the point of 100% condi duration reduction, I havn’t tested it but even with +condi duration I have noticed full immunity on both zerker stance and automated. I shall test this later today, I could just not have noticed them fall off really quickly but I swear I never applied one condi.

Oh, again this thread.
It is a build-defining trait. You have to spec as a bunker to use it decently – else you won’t have either enough hp to use it (even with soldier’s gear, vit/toughness runes and obviously traited in vitality – cause the trait is there, you will have around 6600 hp) or enough defense to resist at that low hp treshhold. And in any case, you won’t deal any decent damage.
Sure, you are quite powerful versus heavy-specced condition users – as long as you stay below that treshhold. But at the same time you will be killed by any power-based burst. And if you heal above the treshhold you are prone to a condi-burst that will surely kill you at that point. Basically, a heavily specialized counter to heavily specialized condition users.
Now, since this is a team-based game, what about asking another member – a power-based one – to take care about it?

This trait is not a problem. If your team comp can’t down an Engi from 25% health without applying more conditions, then the issue is your comp, not this trait. You need to take a bit more balanced approach then full condi-cleave.

I do not play Engi, and often play condi-based builds, but have never seen Automated Response as an insurmountable obstacle. The trait is certainly strong, and it counters a large amount of popular builds in the current meta, but it is less than useless against a single direct damage build.

Zelulose.8695:

Three condition players may not even be able to take down an engineer with this trait on.

I’m sorry one person can dominate your team. Maybe you should be more diverse and have power builds as well as condi builds.

Just because rock always beats scissors doesn’t mean you gotta nerf rock because it always beats scissors.

Zelulose.8695:

The trait, Automated response Stops all conditions at 25% hp from being applied. Given so many classes play condition builds, this one trait can make almost all condition builds useless vs engineers. It also allows them to troll in a map. Three condition players may not even be able to take down an engineer with this trait on.

My suggestion, please give the trait a cool-down or allow other players to remove conditions as well as the engineer can.

Or you could bring a DPS class to finish off the engineer when he gets to 25%. This trait is fine because bunker engis using cleric or shaman ammy have around18k health with no bonus from runes or amulet. Bring that burst mesmer DPS warrior or LS thief and kill him quick. An engi running this trait is just responding to the AOE condi spam meta. Umadbro?

Probably a necro nerd raging that he couldn’t insta blap an Engineer.

The trait is fine.

It’s not okay because it doesn’t only counter conditions, it’s like a perma Stability under 25% that also immunes immobilize instead of knockdowns. It counters almost everything. The game isn’t supposed to be played at less than 25% hp constantly, and yes its way OP for a single trait…

ronpierce.2760:

It’s not okay because it doesn’t only counter conditions, it’s like a perma Stability under 25% that also immunes immobilize instead of knockdowns. It counters almost everything. The game isn’t supposed to be played at less than 25% hp constantly, and yes its way OP for a single trait…

Except stability doesn’t counter immobilize O.o.

uberkingkong.8041:

Just because rock always beats scissors doesn’t mean you gotta nerf rock because it always beats scissors.

And in this case scissors can still beat the crap out of rock. If you condi up a engi and fear at 25-30% health you can still kill him before that fear ends. Also, spam your ds1 when he’s dropping below 25%, even on a condi necro it still does decent damage. It will help your condi spike finish him off.

Nikkle.4013:

uberkingkong.8041:

Just because rock always beats scissors doesn’t mean you gotta nerf rock because it always beats scissors.

And in this case scissors can still beat the crap out of rock. If you condi up a engi and fear at 25-30% health you can still kill him before that fear ends. Also, spam your ds1 when he’s dropping below 25%, even on a condi necro it still does decent damage. It will help your condi spike finish him off.

Stun breakers stop fear.

Zelulose.8695:

Nikkle.4013:

uberkingkong.8041:

Just because rock always beats scissors doesn’t mean you gotta nerf rock because it always beats scissors.

And in this case scissors can still beat the crap out of rock. If you condi up a engi and fear at 25-30% health you can still kill him before that fear ends. Also, spam your ds1 when he’s dropping below 25%, even on a condi necro it still does decent damage. It will help your condi spike finish him off.

Stun breakers stop fear.

Except engi stunbreakers are usually one maybe 2. Im pretty sure a necro can bait one of those before the engi is at 25% health….

With so many responses in the last 40 minutes, I’m beginning to wonder if the devs will tell us if they are going to change this trait or leave it.

Oh, this thread again. Quote from another player:

“Hey, there is a heavily specialized build that counters my heavily specialized build, nerf it.”

Considering they are talking about toning down necros and such I doubt this trait will get touched. Seriously stop bringing condispam necros/hgh engis and bring one or two GC’s tell your team the engi has this trait and he dies….

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

It’s not okay because it doesn’t only counter conditions, it’s like a perma Stability under 25% that also immunes immobilize instead of knockdowns. It counters almost everything. The game isn’t supposed to be played at less than 25% hp constantly, and yes its way OP for a single trait…

Except stability doesn’t counter immobilize O.o.

> that ALSO immunes immobilize INSTEAD of knockdowns< I have that covered. Though I’m not sure if AR stops knockdowns, never tested it.

Penguin.5197:

Oh, this thread again. Quote from another player:

“Hey, there is a heavily specialized build that counters my heavily specialized build, nerf it.”

I play a power build and I hate it… You can’t finish someone off with well timed CCs and burst when they ignore all of your poison/CCs. It isn’t just condition builds. It counters all finishing plays.

ronpierce.2760:

Penguin.5197:

Oh, this thread again. Quote from another player:

“Hey, there is a heavily specialized build that counters my heavily specialized build, nerf it.”

I play a power build and I hate it… You can’t finish someone off with well timed CCs and burst when they ignore all of your poison/CCs. It isn’t just condition builds. It counters all finishing plays.

Really then why does my mesmer teammate finish off several engis that have this trait? O.o

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

Penguin.5197:

Oh, this thread again. Quote from another player:

“Hey, there is a heavily specialized build that counters my heavily specialized build, nerf it.”

I play a power build and I hate it… You can’t finish someone off with well timed CCs and burst when they ignore all of your poison/CCs. It isn’t just condition builds. It counters all finishing plays.

Really then why does my mesmer teammate finish off several engis that have this trait? O.o

Because he’s a necro that doesn’t have warhorn, so only has fear for cc.

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

Penguin.5197:

Oh, this thread again. Quote from another player:

“Hey, there is a heavily specialized build that counters my heavily specialized build, nerf it.”

I play a power build and I hate it… You can’t finish someone off with well timed CCs and burst when they ignore all of your poison/CCs. It isn’t just condition builds. It counters all finishing plays.

Really then why does my mesmer teammate finish off several engis that have this trait? O.o

Well probably because mesmers have some of the best burst in the entire game… Same way they finish anyone off from any amount of HP. No need for CC there…

ronpierce.2760:

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

Penguin.5197:

Oh, this thread again. Quote from another player:

“Hey, there is a heavily specialized build that counters my heavily specialized build, nerf it.”

I play a power build and I hate it… You can’t finish someone off with well timed CCs and burst when they ignore all of your poison/CCs. It isn’t just condition builds. It counters all finishing plays.

Really then why does my mesmer teammate finish off several engis that have this trait? O.o

Well probably because mesmers have some of the best burst in the entire game… Same way they finish anyone off from any amount of HP. No need for CC there…

EXACTLY THE POINT! My team comp consists of 2 bunkers, 2 DPS classes, and one condi spammer. And they never have an issue with an engi using this trait. This trait finally punishes teams that bring ridiculous condition spam and nothing else. However something i think would be funny a 5 engi team all with this trait against a 5 condi spam necro team.

The more interesting part is that engineers already have enough condition removal.
With the elixir gun kit alone, -Fumigate- and -Super Elixir- remove plenty of conditions.
The healing kit has -Drop Antidote-. I will list the rest:
Skills
-Cleansing Burst
-Toss Elixir R
-Elixir C
-Toss Elixir C (the profession skill)
As for traits
-Cleaning Formula 409
-Transmute
-Automated Response

I understand condition removal, but considering what Automated response can do alone, isn’t this too much for one class?

Trasmute is rng, 8%. Cleansing burst is off the turret, its fair. Toss R? Really dude?
409 only works in an elixir build, so no turret heal as well as costing traits and utilities. Fumigate only works on allies I believe, super elixir is one condi same with drop antidote. The only thing there in elixir c but most builds are short utilities slots because of the reliance on kits.

Zelulose.8695:

The more interesting part is that engineers already have enough condition removal.
With the elixir gun kit alone, -Fumigate- and -Super Elixir- remove plenty of conditions.
The healing kit has -Drop Antidote-. I will list the rest:
Skills
-Cleansing Burst
-Toss Elixir R
-Elixir C
-Toss Elixir C (the profession skill)
As for traits
-Cleaning Formula 409
-Transmute
-Automated Response

I understand condition removal, but isn’t this too much for one class?

Except elixir gun fumigate only removes conditions from allies and not the engi. In general if they are taking kits they won’t be using cleansing formula 409. And then Transmute. Oh man more RNG so awesome right?! Super elixir doesn’t remove all conditions on impact so it is likely just one or two.
Elixir R toss is a very long long long cooldown. And elixir C is rarely taken because in team fights it doesn’t do much for the entire team and also. So usually an engineer is going to have one maybe two condi clears…. even with this trait. Once again if engis are taking automated response they are likely not using elixirs.

Zelulose.8695:

The more interesting part is that engineers already have enough condition removal.
With the elixir gun kit alone, -Fumigate- and -Super Elixir- remove plenty of conditions.
The healing kit has -Drop Antidote-. I will list the rest:
Skills
-Cleansing Burst
-Toss Elixir R
-Elixir C
-Toss Elixir C (the profession skill)
As for traits
-Cleaning Formula 409
-Transmute
-Automated Response

I understand condition removal, but considering what Automated response can do alone, isn’t this too much for one class?

You obviously have not played an engineer…… first of all fumigate only removes from allies. 2ndly, most engineers aren’t running that much condition removal, and even if they are they don’t have as much as some other classes can bring on demand. Automated response is fine – just stop. It’s a counter that this game still needs.

Zelulose.8695:

The more interesting part is that engineers already have enough condition removal.
With the elixir gun kit alone, -Fumigate- and -Super Elixir- remove plenty of conditions.
The healing kit has -Drop Antidote-. I will list the rest:
Skills
-Cleansing Burst
-Toss Elixir R
-Elixir C
-Toss Elixir C (the profession skill)
As for traits
-Cleaning Formula 409
-Transmute
-Automated Response

I understand condition removal, but isn’t this too much for one class?

You can’t hit yourself with fumigate and super elixir removes like one. Though yeah engies have a good number of ways remove conditions. It could have been that anet intended engies role to be the bunkers against conditions, similar to how guardians make excellent bunkers against power dmg.

Zelulose.8695:

I know that the conditions are not removed at 25% but they cant be applied at 25% hp.
It is immunity still and once they reach 25% hp they just cleanse the conditions they already have. With condition classes or specs, It is impossible to kill them if they just heal up and don’t attack you no matter how much condition duration you have.

As an engineer who runs automated response, I’m still evaluating whether it’s worth it because I personally haven’t noticed an instance where it has actually saved me from dying. [sarcasm]That being said, I intentionally keep my engineer below 25% health so that I’m indestructible against pure condi builds[/sarcasm].

Kuju.2153:

Zelulose.8695:

The more interesting part is that engineers already have enough condition removal.
With the elixir gun kit alone, -Fumigate- and -Super Elixir- remove plenty of conditions.
The healing kit has -Drop Antidote-. I will list the rest:
Skills
-Cleansing Burst
-Toss Elixir R
-Elixir C
-Toss Elixir C (the profession skill)
As for traits
-Cleaning Formula 409
-Transmute
-Automated Response

I understand condition removal, but considering what Automated response can do alone, isn’t this too much for one class?

You obviously have not played an engineer…… first of all fumigate only removes from allies. 2ndly, most engineers aren’t running that much condition removal, and even if they are they don’t have as much as some other classes can bring on demand. Automated response is fine – just stop. It’s a counter that this game still needs.

I know it does I was just listing their condition removal skills. And yes, I have played an engineer, but go ahead, use fumigate to destroy my credibility it doesn’t matter. The evidence is there.

Penguin.5197:

Zelulose.8695:

The more interesting part is that engineers already have enough condition removal.
With the elixir gun kit alone, -Fumigate- and -Super Elixir- remove plenty of conditions.
The healing kit has -Drop Antidote-. I will list the rest:
Skills
-Cleansing Burst
-Toss Elixir R
-Elixir C
-Toss Elixir C (the profession skill)
As for traits
-Cleaning Formula 409
-Transmute
-Automated Response

I understand condition removal, but isn’t this too much for one class?

You can’t hit yourself with fumigate and super elixir removes like one. Though yeah engies have a good number of ways remove conditions. It could have been that anet intended engies role to be the bunkers against conditions, similar to how guardians make excellent bunkers against power dmg.

Then why do engineers have so much protection to defend against physical damage?

I don’t main an engineer, but watching people try to whine about it when they haven’t played it for a good bit hurts my head. That goes for a lot of threads that come up on these boards, and it seems to only be getting worse.

@Zelulose Necros have
-Consume Conditions
-Well Of Power
-Deathly Swarm
-Plague Signet
-Putrid Mark
Oh and btw these are all conditions except for deathly swarm which is still pretty good I am not even going to get into traits but if a necro is griping about condition removal just NO.

jportell.2197:

@Zelulose Necros have
-Consume Conditions
-Well Of Power
-Deathly Swarm
-Plague Signet
-Putrid Mark
Oh and btw these are all conditions except for deathly swarm which is still pretty good I am not even going to get into traits but if a necro is griping about condition removal just NO.

Why does my engineer list feel longer?

Zelulose.8695:

The more interesting part is that engineers already have enough condition removal.
With the elixir gun kit alone, -Fumigate- and -Super Elixir- remove plenty of conditions.
The healing kit has -Drop Antidote-. I will list the rest:
Skills
-Cleansing Burst
-Toss Elixir R
-Elixir C
-Toss Elixir C (the profession skill)
As for traits
-Cleaning Formula 409
-Transmute
-Automated Response

I understand condition removal, but considering what Automated response can do alone, isn’t this too much for one class?

Play engineer first.. I really want see you removing condis with Fumigate for example or waste Toss R just for condi removal or where did you find utility slot for C. Yes we have “lots” of condi removeal but everyone (exept C) remove just ONE condi.
AR dont make you immune. Its 100% reduction of condi duration so its tick at least once, if you have condi duration like Lyssa runes, it tick more.

Zelulose.8695:

jportell.2197:

@Zelulose Necros have
-Consume Conditions
-Well Of Power
-Deathly Swarm
-Plague Signet
-Putrid Mark
Oh and btw these are all conditions except for deathly swarm which is still pretty good I am not even going to get into traits but if a necro is griping about condition removal just NO.

Why does my engineer list feel longer?

Because i didn’t touch necro traits also only one of those engineer skills immediately kills ALL conditions and its not a stun breaker. Well of power however…. Oh and consume conditions.

Then we have necro traits such as fetid consumption which is a grandmaster trait. A MM necro running this trait and bunkering is pretty much immune to conditions even when not at 25% health. So maybe that trait should be nerfed too? Oh wait but its a necro trait so its fine AMIRITE?

Zelulose.8695:

jportell.2197:

@Zelulose Necros have
-Consume Conditions
-Well Of Power
-Deathly Swarm
-Plague Signet
-Putrid Mark
Oh and btw these are all conditions except for deathly swarm which is still pretty good I am not even going to get into traits but if a necro is griping about condition removal just NO.

Why does my engineer list feel longer?

Troll

Zelulose.8695:

jportell.2197:

@Zelulose Necros have
-Consume Conditions
-Well Of Power
-Deathly Swarm
-Plague Signet
-Putrid Mark
Oh and btw these are all conditions except for deathly swarm which is still pretty good I am not even going to get into traits but if a necro is griping about condition removal just NO.

Why does my engineer list feel longer?

Longer does not equal stronger…. wow.. just wow. E,g, Cooldowns, potency, meh I’ll just stop.

Zelulose.8695:

jportell.2197:

@Zelulose Necros have
-Consume Conditions
-Well Of Power
-Deathly Swarm
-Plague Signet
-Putrid Mark
Oh and btw these are all conditions except for deathly swarm which is still pretty good I am not even going to get into traits but if a necro is griping about condition removal just NO.

Why does my engineer list feel longer?

Cause you were adding face palming stuff like fumigate and toss elixir r as condition removers. I think at this point you really should go try an engie first before complaining about a class you don’t understand.

You guys are still missing my point, in that it’s perma stability against power builds under 25% who aren’t bursty enough to do 25+% of someones attack in a single swift move. In addition to that it makes setting up neigh impossible because you can’t immobilize, fear or what have you to land it, so they’re free to evade, block, swiftness away (they can snare you but you can’t snare them and many engies have perma swiftness). Defend it all you want, but the problem isn’t just that it counters the condi meta. It’s just all around too powerful.

ronpierce.2760:

You guys are still missing my point, in that it’s perma stability against power builds under 25% who aren’t bursty enough to do 25+% of someones attack in a single swift move. In addition to that it makes setting up neigh impossible because you can’t immobilize, fear or what have you to land it, so they’re free to evade, block, swiftness away (they can snare you but you can’t snare them and many engies have perma swiftness). Defend it all you want, but the problem isn’t just that it counters the condi meta. It’s just all around too powerful.

So under 25% engi’s are just godmode? Man i must be doing something wrong! And engis don’t usually take perma swiftness in tourneys… Instead they will go more into explosives and maybe inventions. Speedy Kits is great for wvw. Other than that though not really. And just you can retal an engi to death under 25%. Seriously an engi that is a bunker build has around 18k health (unless they are taking pvt but in that case they are lacking healing power.) Now 25% is only about 4,500. Most classes can burst through that or at least DPS it down.

ronpierce.2760:

You guys are still missing my point, in that it’s perma stability against power builds under 25% who aren’t bursty enough to do 25+% of someones attack in a single swift move. In addition to that it makes setting up neigh impossible because you can’t immobilize, fear or what have you to land it, so they’re free to evade, block, swiftness away (they can snare you but you can’t snare them and many engies have perma swiftness). Defend it all you want, but the problem isn’t just that it counters the condi meta. It’s just all around too powerful.

That’s why so many engineers were running it before the condition meta we are in. An engineer under 25% is prlly sitting at around 4.5k-5k hp. Most power builds can setup some kind of burst to take them out. If you read the engineer forum and have played an engineer (as I already said and others) you’ll see where automated response wasn’t taken over other traits because it didn’t help vs burst and other traits would be better of to be taken. Now with all the conditions it’s a little different (and its already been nerfed/changed). It’s been in since release, and it’s not just a coincidence that it’s being whined about so much now.

Well Anyway I’ll be waiting to hear what the game designers say about this trait. I’ll let you guys continue discussing it.

I’m rank 33 and I’m facing primarily rank 20s to rank 40s players.

I am currently using AR because it allows me to beat bad necromancers, of which there is a proliferation. Just like a stun break allows me to beat a bad warrior and bad thief, and well timed dodges allow me to avoid Shatters and not standing in the red circles allows me to beat some grenade engineers.

I’ve faced enough necromancers to be able to spot the good ones—the ones that get me to 25% and then lay into me with power damage, fear, and the knockdown from their Flesh Golem. It takes them a few seconds longer to get me down, but they do it. If they can’t, then what do you know—they come back with a power/crit teammate and I go down like a sack of bricks. Or they just send a good power teammate and he/she solos me.

You can’t expect to play a profession that can apply nearly all conditions to enemies in a couple of seconds and have an environment free of counters to that.

Same goes for Thief when they roll up on a turret bunker. Most see the net turret and turn around. Then a few moments later I get rolled by their necro or mesmer teammate.

I wish you luck in your vigil to see this trait nerfed, but more than likely you’ll just have to adjust to it like we have to boon hate/stealing, and oh—Corrupt Boon. #WINK

See what I did there?

Zelulose.8695:

The more interesting part is that engineers already have enough condition removal.
With the elixir gun kit alone, -Fumigate- and -Super Elixir- remove plenty of conditions.
The healing kit has -Drop Antidote-. I will list the rest:
Skills
-Cleansing Burst
-Toss Elixir R
-Elixir C
-Toss Elixir C (the profession skill)
As for traits
-Cleaning Formula 409
-Transmute
-Automated Response

I understand condition removal, but considering what Automated response can do alone, isn’t this too much for one class?

A very large majority of engis run without a lot of cleanses. A lot of other classes have far better access to cleanses than we do simply because our utilities are our weapon sets. One of the main weaknesses of engineers is conditions in general when they are not running HGH. If they are running HGH they have to LoS to cleanse and will just fall over to a necro anyways. If they are running a very large amount of cleanse (elixir C + heal turret, mainly) they will still get destroyed by necromancers.

And auto-immune response is almost worthless against a necro. I’ve 100-0’d engis with auto-immune on my necro before… It doesn’t clear the conditions previously applied before the engi drops below 25%.

To even grab auto-immune is a feat in and of itself. If you are having trouble with an engi running auto-immune, don’t fight him. He’s near worthless anyways.

For the record, necromancers have 50X better access to condition removals via transfers and consume conditions than engis could ever dream of. That all comes with their heal and chosen weapon sets. Plague signet is just the icing on the cake and far easier to grab than anything an engi uses to cleanse himself.

Ostricheggs.3742:

If you are having trouble with an engi running auto-immune, don’t fight him. He’s near worthless anyways.

Wrong… holding a 4v1 for about 2-3 min is far from worthless. Just sayin.

jportell.2197:

Ostricheggs.3742:

If you are having trouble with an engi running auto-immune, don’t fight him. He’s near worthless anyways.

Wrong… holding a 4v1 for about 2-3 min is far from worthless. Just sayin.

Now whose fault is that? Either that’s pure hyperbole or you done goofed

Ostricheggs.3742:

jportell.2197:

Ostricheggs.3742:

If you are having trouble with an engi running auto-immune, don’t fight him. He’s near worthless anyways.

Wrong… holding a 4v1 for about 2-3 min is far from worthless. Just sayin.

Now whose fault is that? Either that’s pure hyperbole or you done goofed

Not hyperbole at all… Maybe the time is an exaggeration but my engi has sat against extreme odds for quite a time in a match. Now if my d/d ele friend is there between fields and blast finishers its quite ridiculous.