Guild Wars 2

/15char page bug.

jportell.2197:

Ostricheggs.3742:

jportell.2197:

Ostricheggs.3742:

If you are having trouble with an engi running auto-immune, don’t fight him. He’s near worthless anyways.

Wrong… holding a 4v1 for about 2-3 min is far from worthless. Just sayin.

Now whose fault is that? Either that’s pure hyperbole or you done goofed

Not hyperbole at all… Maybe the time is an exaggeration but my engi has sat against extreme odds for quite a time in a match. Now if my d/d ele friend is there between fields and blast finishers its quite ridiculous.

Think he means the 4 people trying to kill you are just morons.

It’s already been nerfed once, sounds like a l2p issue to me

Zelulose.8695:

Kuju.2153:

It’s not immunity anymore (was actually nerfed in that regard already). Most condition builds have some type of +% condition duration. Previously applied conditions still tick. It’s been in since launch, and it used to be considered a trait to rarely even take because of power builds running around, but now since people are playing the “puke out as many conditions as I can” meta there is more whining. Coincidence?

So, there is a build or two in the game that actually might help counter conditions and there is a problem…. whereas there are plenty of counter builds to different type of power… come on and think.

I know that the conditions are not removed at 25% but they cant be applied at 25% hp.
It is immunity still and once they reach 25% hp they just cleanse the conditions they already have. With condition classes or specs, It is impossible to kill them if they just heal up and don’t attack you no matter how much condition duration you have.

What magic are these Engineers using to cleanse all the conditions with?

Med kit drop cleanses one.

Healing turret overcharge cleanses two.

Elixir C is the only way to cleanse them all for Engi and I highly doubt you’ll see that on an Engi’s bar in tPVP.

Such vicious cycle!

if you’re facing too many “immune” engineers, why not just switch to a hybrid build or learn to play around it.. it’s not hard to counter it once you know how the trait really works…

but then again, not too many engi’s run this trait, if you’re upset about it, it’s because 1 engi trolled you on 1 hot join match and since your build couldn’t kill it, it was automatically OP

It’s a very powerful effect, with a very dangerous requirement. The sort of thing I’d like to see more of, to be honest.

Do you know what is funny? Maybe if you will cry long enough devs will nerf this trait. And do you know what will happend after? Nothing. You will die same as before because we didnt win because of this trait:-)
This trait works only in heavy bunker builds and if you was killed by bunker engi.. well there isnt any hope for you man:-)

The best way to counter this build is stunning them right when they about to heal then keep pounding them.

You can try slamming conditions on us right before we goto 25% but a good bunker engy with this trait will also have elixir c and will turn all of those into boons so you also have to deal with regen, protection and vigor. They also have low cooldown condi to boon toolbelt skills as well.

Do I think its overpowered? Nope all it takes is a thief to come in and 222222222222 /sit /sit /sit

or warrior coming in and bullcharge 100blades. /sit/sit /sit

dont even see engis using this trait lol – cant understand why whining bout

its not op – or all engis would have it – it even need buff – something like “when engi goes 25% he oneshot all necros on map and make them going back to their heartseeker mains”

would be fine

One advice from me, OP: Read all the response and L2P. And no, this is not an insult, I really mean it literally, LEARN TO PLAY. You know it is there, you know its coming, you have prepare for it. Job Done… I play Bunker Triple Kit (FT,Bomb,Tool kit), my only condition removal is from Healing Turret and this trait. So no, WE ARE NOT IMMUNE TO CONDITION AT ALL.

Little hint: you shouldn’t be able to kill bunker 1 v 1. And they shouldn’t kill you either. That’s how it works, and ever worked.

I played engi bunker before big balance patch, and yes, using this trait I could even stand vs 2 necros. You know why? Because they were bad players, who didn’t know, what’s going on. I even had some successes vs mesmers and thiefs.

You know what countered me? Hammer guardian. I didn’t have stability and they could just throw me away from point.

I recently started running hgh, because it’s much easier to faceroll bad necro with dps. Same with every other bad players.

I hate when people say that… Yes you should be able to kill anyone 1v1… Immortality is a jacked up design. Bunkers purpose isn’t to live forever, its to stall the enemy so allies have time to react and assist. The whole “bunkers at supposed to be immortal 1v1” argument is ridiculous. Being unable to be killed wouldnt even promote skillful game play. It’s a time race, a good bunker would be someone who can hold off enemies the longest, not who can faceroll on a build that makes them immune to everything.

Are people actually arguing whether it is fine or not a trait which automatically gives 100% immunity to the main source of damage of some builds?

Seriously, guys. That trait is a complete no-sense.

It is like warriors had a trait which grants them permanent Endure Pain once they are under 25% hp…

I think problem is that now everyone rolls “I R CONDI HERO” instead of trying team comps that have balanced condi and power damage. But no, that would be nonsence right?!

sorrow.2364:

Are people actually arguing whether it is fine or not a trait which automatically gives 100% immunity to the main source of damage of some builds?

Seriously, guys. That trait is a complete no-sense.

It is like warriors had a trait which grants them permanent Endure Pain once they are under 25% hp…

The comparison doesn’t work. DD is limited to constant application. DoTs allow the application ahead of time to continue to do damage through the immunity.

One is a complete hard counter – the other allows an intelligent player to counter.

Velron.3729:

The comparison doesn’t work. DD is limited to constant application. DoTs allow the application ahead of time to continue to do damage through the immunity.

One is a complete hard counter – the other allows an intelligent player to counter.

How?
Applying conditions that can be easily cleansed once the engineer has the condi immunity?
That isn’t a counter, that is a situational possible counter which works only against brain-dead engineers.

No cooldown?
Absurd!
Too much OP.

In this way my warrior could have perma Endure Pain when hp drop to 25%.

To the OP: Roll an engineer. Play for 20 minutes to get to level 2. Enter the mists. Spec AR. Enter pvp and go find a necro. See how you do.

Can’t be serious. Oh no a guy with 5k health, what will I do? Your bunker could kill him at that point.

Mammoth.1975:

Can’t be serious. Oh no a guy with 5k health, what will I do? Your bunker could kill him at that point.

Well, try to kill an Automated Response engineer with a rabid jewel and a condition build. Regeneration will outheal the damage.

sorrow.2364:

Velron.3729:

The comparison doesn’t work. DD is limited to constant application. DoTs allow the application ahead of time to continue to do damage through the immunity.

One is a complete hard counter – the other allows an intelligent player to counter.

How?
Applying conditions that can be easily cleansed once the engineer has the condi immunity?
That isn’t a counter, that is a situational possible counter which works only against brain-dead engineers.

I addressed this once already. How does this Engi magically clean all of these condis?

Med kit drop cleanses one

Heal turret overcharge cleanses two (most likely heal)

Elixir gun cleanses 1 (bunker may have this as well)

The only option to cleanse all is Elixir C and Engi’s aren’t running that in tPVP. Too much has to be given up for a skill that doesn’t break stun or do anything outside of condi converting.

sorrow.2364:

Mammoth.1975:

Can’t be serious. Oh no a guy with 5k health, what will I do? Your bunker could kill him at that point.

Well, try to kill an Automated Response engineer with a rabid jewel and a condition build. Regeneration will outheal the damage.

Rabid jewel? That regeneration wont be doing crap for them

sorrow.2364:

Well, try to kill an Automated Response engineer with a rabid jewel and a condition build. Regeneration will outheal the damage.

Well, as I said, get your bunker to do it. Clerics ammy too strong!

Velron.3729:

I addressed this once already. How does this Engi magically clean all of these condis?

Med kit drop cleanses one

Heal turret overcharge cleanses two (most likely heal)

Elixir gun cleanses 1 (bunker may have this as well)

The only option to cleanse all is Elixir C and Engi’s aren’t running that in tPVP. Too much has to be given up for a skill that doesn’t break stun or do anything outside of condi converting.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleaning_Formula_409
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R (that’s what a dying engineer will be throwing as soon as possible) + Projectile finisher

Those are a lot of condition cleansing if you sum them up.

sorrow.2364:

Velron.3729:

I addressed this once already. How does this Engi magically clean all of these condis?

Med kit drop cleanses one

Heal turret overcharge cleanses two (most likely heal)

Elixir gun cleanses 1 (bunker may have this as well)

The only option to cleanse all is Elixir C and Engi’s aren’t running that in tPVP. Too much has to be given up for a skill that doesn’t break stun or do anything outside of condi converting.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleaning_Formula_409
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R (that’s what a dying engineer will be throwing as soon as possible) + Projectile finisher

Those are a lot of condition cleansing if you sum them up.

Ah so now we are talking about a full Elixir spec Engi with no kits for utility and no damage output (no one running cleansing 409 with 1 elixir). Gotcha.

I don’t see the problem personally, that’s gonna be a pretty crappy Engi for keeping people off a point. IE not a very good bunker.

Toss R to clear the condis could work, but now the Engi is standing still, with less than 25% HP out of probably 18k health. Sounds like an easy target to be 1shot by just about anyone who isn’t all in the condi basket.

Hey guys I’m back. The issue is like this. To counter power builds there is alot of damage reduction right? For example there is a 30% damage reduction from ranger’s bark skin at 25% hp and a few other damage reduction traits and skills out side of protection. However, damage reduction can only get stacked up to 70% and that takes frost armor, bark skin, and protection.
If you are not using power then, with condition builds, conditions are at 100% damage regardless of your armor. but engineers stop all 100% of this at 25% health with a simple cleanse of the old conditions. It would be more balanced for automated response to remove a limited amount of conditions at 25% health or a 70% condition duration reduction. This is because, unlike the protection and frost armor that can be on cool down while below 25% hp, Automatic response is constant.

It is already balanced. 25% hp are quite few hp anyway and you’re still subject to control skills beside fear. And staying at less than 25% hp means you’re a walking target for burst damage.
It counters heavily specialized condition builds while putting yourself in severe danger toward any build with some power. You can notice it more now just because everyone and his brother runs a full-condi necro. Just call someone else in your team to fight this opponent.
And if your team is made just of full-condi characters, it is just your team’s fault.

Manuhell.2759:

It is already balanced. 25% hp are quite few hp anyway and you’re still subject to control skills beside fear. And staying at less than 25% hp means you’re a walking target for burst damage.
It counters heavily specialized condition builds while putting yourself in severe danger toward any build with some power. You can notice it more now just because everyone and his brother runs a full-condi necro. Just call someone else in your team to fight this opponent.
And if your team is made just of full-condi characters, it is just your team’s fault.

This.

Manuhell.2759:

It is already balanced. 25% hp are quite few hp anyway and you’re still subject to control skills beside fear. And staying at less than 25% hp means you’re a walking target for burst damage.
It counters heavily specialized condition builds while putting yourself in severe danger toward any build with some power. You can notice it more now just because everyone and his brother runs a full-condi necro. Just call someone else in your team to fight this opponent.
And if your team is made just of full-condi characters, it is just your team’s fault.

You forget that at 25% health engineer’s healing skills also recharge and they still have access to block weakness and protection. They can also take 20% less damage while stunned with stabilizing armor. While not every engineer has all of these most are easily attained and used together. Even worse The engineer has an elite that stuns and heals. They can survive pretty well below 25% hp and may not even get there often. Whats worse, the Automated response often prevents their death to virtually any condition user.

Zelulose… I will quote you

“I have new for you essentially I have seen op necros, mesmers, theifs, engineers, elementalists, and rangers. the other classes are garbage until they buff them too. When the guardian and warrior are buffed right gw2 will be balanced for the top tier players and imbalanced for the players who have no idea how to play their classes.”

This is what you said in a thread called “I can’t take all the crying” yet here you are crying about engi’s being “OP”. Engi found a counter for the condition spamming necro… adapt, stop crying for a nerf and learn to play. You said it yourself that necro’s and engi’s are balanced. so stop trying to unbalance them.

:-)

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

It is already balanced. 25% hp are quite few hp anyway and you’re still subject to control skills beside fear. And staying at less than 25% hp means you’re a walking target for burst damage.
It counters heavily specialized condition builds while putting yourself in severe danger toward any build with some power. You can notice it more now just because everyone and his brother runs a full-condi necro. Just call someone else in your team to fight this opponent.
And if your team is made just of full-condi characters, it is just your team’s fault.

You forget that at 25% health engineer’s healing skills also recharge and they still have access to block weakness and protection. They can also take 20% less damage while stunned with stabilizing armor. While not every engineer has all of these most are easily attained and used togather

MAN! These people are creating the God Engineer with all these things you can’t get at the same time.

So now the Engineer is using Elixir gun for weakness even though previously he was on an Elixir build for Cleansing 409 and Elixir R, etc.

Access to block – 2s block on a 40s cooldown.

Tool kit block? Ah but I thought this was an Elixir Engineer! There’s another kit again.

Jastorm.5972:

Zelulose… I will quote you

“I have new for you essentially I have seen op necros, mesmers, theifs, engineers, elementalists, and rangers. the other classes are garbage until they buff them too. When the guardian and warrior are buffed right gw2 will be balanced for the top tier players and imbalanced for the players who have no idea how to play their classes.”

This is what you said in a thread called “I can’t take all the crying” yet here you are crying about engi’s being “OP”. Engi found a counter for the condition spamming necro… adapt, stop crying for a nerf and learn to play. You said it yourself that necro’s and engi’s are balanced. so stop trying to unbalance them.

:-)

I said they are all op so essentially they are balanced but until all the listed classes are toned down or the guardian and warrior are buffed, it wont be completely balanced. Hopefully you read the beginning of that quote. By reading your past quotes I have found that you are in complete support of buffing the engineer and I’m sorry this post does not sound encouraging. There are things the engineer needs besides Sustain.

Velron.3729:

Ah so now we are talking about a full Elixir spec Engi with no kits for utility and no damage output (no one running cleansing 409 with 1 elixir). Gotcha.

I don’t see the problem personally, that’s gonna be a pretty crappy Engi for keeping people off a point. IE not a very good bunker.

Toss R to clear the condis could work, but now the Engi is standing still, with less than 25% HP out of probably 18k health. Sounds like an easy target to be 1shot by just about anyone who isn’t all in the condi basket.

Yeah, because no engi runs HGH…

Still, an engineer with that trait will completely negate the damage of a condition spec, which is horrible in terms of balance.

Manuhell.2759:

It is already balanced. 25% hp are quite few hp anyway and you’re still subject to control skills beside fear. And staying at less than 25% hp means you’re a walking target for burst damage.
It counters heavily specialized condition builds while putting yourself in severe danger toward any build with some power. You can notice it more now just because everyone and his brother runs a full-condi necro. Just call someone else in your team to fight this opponent.
And if your team is made just of full-condi characters, it is just your team’s fault.

How can an automated 100% immunity to a specific type of damage be balanced?
How can a trait that leaves no room for counterplay be balanced?

Get real, guys. That trait is a joke.

sorrow.2364:

Velron.3729:

Ah so now we are talking about a full Elixir spec Engi with no kits for utility and no damage output (no one running cleansing 409 with 1 elixir). Gotcha.

I don’t see the problem personally, that’s gonna be a pretty crappy Engi for keeping people off a point. IE not a very good bunker.

Toss R to clear the condis could work, but now the Engi is standing still, with less than 25% HP out of probably 18k health. Sounds like an easy target to be 1shot by just about anyone who isn’t all in the condi basket.

Yeah, because no engi runs HGH…

Still, an engineer with that trait will completely negate the damage of a condition spec, which is horrible in terms of balance.

Manuhell.2759:

It is already balanced. 25% hp are quite few hp anyway and you’re still subject to control skills beside fear. And staying at less than 25% hp means you’re a walking target for burst damage.
It counters heavily specialized condition builds while putting yourself in severe danger toward any build with some power. You can notice it more now just because everyone and his brother runs a full-condi necro. Just call someone else in your team to fight this opponent.
And if your team is made just of full-condi characters, it is just your team’s fault.

How can an automated 100% immunity to a specific type of damage be balanced?
How can a trait that leaves no room for counterplay be balanced?

Get real, guys. That trait is a joke.

WELL SIR! I would like to inform you that you can NOT run HGH and AR together since they are both Grandmasters.

Can y’all at least learn what builds are possible on Engineer before you start crying?

Counter play options have been mentioned multiple times in this thread, give it a read.

Velron.3729:

Counter play options have been mentioned multiple times in this thread, give it a read.

Counter play options are:
- Call a teammate to kill the engineer for you
- Apply conditions before the engineer gets under 25% hp.

Those are not counterplays.
The first one isn’t even a solution to the problem. The second one, as I proved, can be easily, easily countered by an engineer with just a little brain. You just need to cleanse the damaging condition, whose conditions which are cleansed first because they are applied frequently.

The first one is a solution, even if you don’t like it – you fight as a team, not alone. And once you discover who has got that trait, you can simply avoid that player or deal just the starting condi burst and leave the rest to your partner. And it will end rather quickly.
And they can do that only if they have elixir c, basically. Cleansing burst would risk putting you above the treshhold and the other ones heal just single conditions.
And that’s assuming they won’t be forced to go above the treshhold again before that elixir recharges – cause if that happen, they’re definitely dead.
I know, i know: you’ll say “but they will have elixir R to ress themselves”. There are counters for that too, but beside that…whoever uses all those elixirs together without HGH? You would really have no offense at all with a similar setup, and that’s why no one does it – especially since you would still lack a stun break, so you would basically end with no weapons beside that main one (unless you take the elixir gun, but it is more like a support weapon for the party)

sorrow.2364:

Velron.3729:

Counter play options have been mentioned multiple times in this thread, give it a read.

Counter play options are:
- Call a teammate to kill the engineer for you
- Apply conditions before the engineer gets under 25% hp.

Those are not counterplays.
The first one isn’t even a solution to the problem. The second one, as I proved, can be easily, easily countered by an engineer with just a little brain. You just need to cleanse the damaging condition, whose conditions which are cleansed first because they are applied frequently.

Yes you guys keep saying that, and then suggesting combinations of traits and abilities that are impossible to have all at the same time.

Please make a build on a builder and then explain why the build is OP.

Manuhell.2759:

The first one is a solution, even if you don’t like it – you fight as a team, not alone. And once you discover who has got that trait, you can simply avoid that player or deal just the starting condi burst and leave the rest to your partner. And it will end rather quickly.
And they can do that only if they have elixir c, basically. Cleansing burst would risk putting you above the treshhold and the other ones heal just single conditions.
And that’s assuming they won’t be forced to go above the treshhold again before that elixir recharges – cause if that happen, they’re definitely dead.
I know, i know: you’ll say “but they will have elixir R to ress themselves”. There are counters for that too, but beside that…whoever uses all those elixirs together without HGH? You would really have no offense at all with a similar setup, and that’s why no one does it – especially since you would still lack a stun break, so you would basically end with no weapons beside that main one (unless you take the elixir gun, but it is more like a support weapon for the party)

Yeah, sounds legit.
Imagine if warriors had Endure Pain on 25% HP and you have only direct damage.
Effective counter? Call a teammate which has condition damage.
This isn’t a rock, paper and scissor game, there should be always a chance to win against any enemy, it’s not that if someone has a single trait you can just forget to win against him.

Velron.3729:

Yes you guys keep saying that, and then suggesting combinations of traits and abilities that are impossible to have all at the same time.

Please make a build on a builder and then explain why the build is OP.

How can’t you realize that?
What is broken and OP is the 100% automatic immunity to some builds which doesn’t rely at all on skills.
It doesn’t matter how good you are with your profession. If you are built around conditions you don’t have any chance against an engineer with automated response, especially if you are a Necromancer.

What is broken OP is the fact that engineers with that trait does not have to outplay a condition build, they just have to wait until they are on less than 25% hp, cleanse and wipe the enemy.

How can something like this be allowed on a game which aspires to become an e-sport?

sorrow.2364:

Manuhell.2759:

The first one is a solution, even if you don’t like it – you fight as a team, not alone. And once you discover who has got that trait, you can simply avoid that player or deal just the starting condi burst and leave the rest to your partner. And it will end rather quickly.
And they can do that only if they have elixir c, basically. Cleansing burst would risk putting you above the treshhold and the other ones heal just single conditions.
And that’s assuming they won’t be forced to go above the treshhold again before that elixir recharges – cause if that happen, they’re definitely dead.
I know, i know: you’ll say “but they will have elixir R to ress themselves”. There are counters for that too, but beside that…whoever uses all those elixirs together without HGH? You would really have no offense at all with a similar setup, and that’s why no one does it – especially since you would still lack a stun break, so you would basically end with no weapons beside that main one (unless you take the elixir gun, but it is more like a support weapon for the party)

Yeah, sounds legit.
Imagine if warriors had Endure Pain on 25% HP and you have only direct damage.
Effective counter? Call a teammate which has condition damage.
This isn’t a rock, paper and scissor game, there should be always a chance to win against any enemy, it’s not that if someone has a single trait you can just forget to win against him.

Velron.3729:

Yes you guys keep saying that, and then suggesting combinations of traits and abilities that are impossible to have all at the same time.

Please make a build on a builder and then explain why the build is OP.

How can’t you realize that?
What is broken and OP is the 100% automatic immunity to some builds which doesn’t rely at all on skills.
It doesn’t matter how good you are with your profession. If you are built around conditions you don’t have any chance against an engineer with automated response, especially if you are a Necromancer.

What is broken OP is the fact that engineers with that trait does not have to outplay a condition build, they just have to wait until they are on less than 25% hp, cleanse and wipe the enemy.

How can something like this be allowed on a game which aspires to become an e-sport?

Still waiting to see this magic build where every time the Engi goes under 25% he is also able to cleanse the conditions on him so he will take absolutely no condi damage every time he drops below 25%. While still maintaining tool kit blocks, Elixir gun weakness, etc…everything mentioned. Want to see it all in a build.

I actually have an idea how to make it, and it would be the worst troll build ever unable to do anything except try to survive against condi builds while having absolutely pitiful damage output and almost no ability to actually control the node.

We are talking about tPVP balance here right? Seems like a great hotjoin troll spec, and there’s a ton of those.

sorrow.2364:

Mammoth.1975:

Can’t be serious. Oh no a guy with 5k health, what will I do? Your bunker could kill him at that point.

Well, try to kill an Automated Response engineer with a rabid jewel and a condition build. Regeneration will outheal the damage.

Hyperbole: n. this post

@Sorrow.3264

before you post more bull …. plz read the trait again and than engi patchnotes from last balancing patch

THEIR IS NO IMUNITY

Romek.4201:

@Sorrow.3264

before you post more bull …. plz read the trait again and than engi patchnotes from last balancing patch

THEIR IS NO IMUNITY

100% duration reduction. Meaning base attacks are 0% in duration. So if a necro somehow traits for over 100% increase in certain conditions they will tick on the engi.

Which is fine. It shows the extreme lack of diversity in people running builds lately. Its either conditions or bust. Which i really don’t like. A hard counter to the kittened amount of condis out there is necessary. And this is the only trait that really does it that and berserkers stance.

sorrow.2364:

Manuhell.2759:

The first one is a solution, even if you don’t like it – you fight as a team, not alone. And once you discover who has got that trait, you can simply avoid that player or deal just the starting condi burst and leave the rest to your partner. And it will end rather quickly.
And they can do that only if they have elixir c, basically. Cleansing burst would risk putting you above the treshhold and the other ones heal just single conditions.
And that’s assuming they won’t be forced to go above the treshhold again before that elixir recharges – cause if that happen, they’re definitely dead.
I know, i know: you’ll say “but they will have elixir R to ress themselves”. There are counters for that too, but beside that…whoever uses all those elixirs together without HGH? You would really have no offense at all with a similar setup, and that’s why no one does it – especially since you would still lack a stun break, so you would basically end with no weapons beside that main one (unless you take the elixir gun, but it is more like a support weapon for the party)

Yeah, sounds legit.
Imagine if warriors had Endure Pain on 25% HP and you have only direct damage.
Effective counter? Call a teammate which has condition damage.
This isn’t a rock, paper and scissor game, there should be always a chance to win against any enemy, it’s not that if someone has a single trait you can just forget to win against him.

Velron.3729:

Yes you guys keep saying that, and then suggesting combinations of traits and abilities that are impossible to have all at the same time.

Please make a build on a builder and then explain why the build is OP.

How can’t you realize that?
What is broken and OP is the 100% automatic immunity to some builds which doesn’t rely at all on skills.
It doesn’t matter how good you are with your profession. If you are built around conditions you don’t have any chance against an engineer with automated response, especially if you are a Necromancer.

What is broken OP is the fact that engineers with that trait does not have to outplay a condition build, they just have to wait until they are on less than 25% hp, cleanse and wipe the enemy.

How can something like this be allowed on a game which aspires to become an e-sport?

It does matter how good you are. I get beaten regularly by necromancers, and I am no slouch in pvp winning the at least 50% of my 1v1 encounters. I currently use AR so I can be of use to my team now that most opposing teams include 2-3 necromancers. With condi necros that can burn me down as fast as power/burst builds (which is ridiculous in and of itself) I need the protection to stand a chance—to last long enough for my teammates to show up.

However, it feels rather futile when I meet a necromancer who has figured out how to play around this. There is a lot that goes into making the most of AR and your posts demonstrate that you don’t know what it’s like to play against the new condispam necro build that you’re all enjoying so much. The best case scenario is that we cleanse all of our conditions just as we’re reaching 25%. That requires Elixir C. We’re not using Elixir C because we need room for a kit or two, or a kit and two stun breaks/cc cleanses—or we die to burst classes.

I’m seeing far too many necromancers in tPvP these days to drop AR, but I constantly debate it’s usefulness because teams that coordinate take this trait from Tier 1 viability and drop it to Tier 2 or 3. This isn’t a 1v1 game and it never will be.

I don’t go to the Guardian forum and kitten and moan about not being able to control them with my quad turret CC build due to their easy and frequent access to stability. I do this instead:

/team Guys. I need to rotate to mid or get some support. I can’t bunker against this hammer guardian.
My teammates: Rotate to mid. We’ll send so-and-so to home. (or something to that effect)

I’m really not sorry that you’re unable to win against one profession with one very narrow meta spec. Try adjusting your build to include some power damage, make better use of your other abilities. When HGH was at an all time high, I saw 1-2 Engineers on most teams. Now you’re lucky to see 1. We don’t have a flavor of the month/degenerate build any more. You won’t see me crying about that—I’ve never once supported HGH or been a huge fan of grenades (except for a week where I played 100 nades for kicks—I couldn’t make it work at higher levels of play).

Honestly, you really need to take the 20 minutes to get an Engineer into PvP. Try the build you’re talking about for an hour (that’s 4 matches), and throw yourself at some necromancers. I’ve done the same for the condi necro spam. I haven’t found a weakness I can exploit yet, but I can tank them for a while until help shows up. The good ones however just shut me down.

Rather than comparing experience that varies from player to player, you should look at how much harder the necromancers have to try to even hold their own against any engineer with a brain. If they are having problems its only worse for condition thieves, rangers, even other condition engineers who pale in comparison to the necromancer at dealing conditions.

Zelulose.8695:

Rather than comparing experience that varies from player to player, you should look at how much harder the necromancers have to try to even hold their own against any engineer with a brain. If they are having problems its only worse for condition thieves, rangers, even other condition engineers who pale in comparison to the necromancer at dealing conditions

You joking right?

Any half decent condition Necro is a condition Engi’s worse nightmare. You have multiple ways to send our offense back at us, effectively meaning we are helping you kill ourselves for you. You also get a full cleanse for free on your heal. You also have a way lager health pool (two of them) for the conditions to have to go through.

@Zeluos : Now, to you, my friend, you should look at how much harder other classes HAVE TO try to fare even with NECRO akittens current state. At the moment, Necro is the class that I would not expect any QQ from.

@sorrow : Every build has a counter, so DEAL with it. I would love to see me have a fair chance against a Necro know how to make use of his skill as an Eles. Again, maybe, you guys will tell me L2P. Why not apply it to you then.Telling GW2 is not rock-paper-scissor, do we even play the same game? And here you talk about balancing,….Give me a break.

Stealth.9324:

@Zeluos : Now, to you, my friend, you should look at how much harder other classes HAVE TO try to fare even with NECRO akittens current state. At the moment, Necro is the class that I would not expect any QQ from.

@sorrow : Every build has a counter, so DEAL with it. I would love to see me have a fair chance against a Necro know how to make use of his skill as an Eles. Again, maybe, you guys will tell me L2P. Why not apply it to you then.Telling GW2 is not rock-paper-scissor, do we even play the same game? And here you talk about balancing,….Give me a break.

Hint: I play an MM Necro and its more of a counter to me than a condi necro… I can’t CC, I can’t chill them, my dagger auto attack is my main source of damage and requires melee, I lack swiftness, and they have (or can have) perma swiftness while snaring myself and my minions. Its literally a harder counter for certain non-condi builds than condies, and it has nothing to do with damage.

Maybe Automated response is meant to be the counter to conditions. Seriously if you guys are having that much trouble. Get one more person on your team that is burst and do a condition/burst roaming team. If you are fighting a guard then you can condition them down. If you are fighting an engi you can burst them down.

Even in 1v2 against two condition builds an engi with this trait will still die. Just not as fast as you guys want. Im not even going to say l2p but this trait requires such a heavy investment and a strict requirement to kick in.

ronpierce.2760:

Stealth.9324:

@Zeluos : Now, to you, my friend, you should look at how much harder other classes HAVE TO try to fare even with NECRO akittens current state. At the moment, Necro is the class that I would not expect any QQ from.

@sorrow : Every build has a counter, so DEAL with it. I would love to see me have a fair chance against a Necro know how to make use of his skill as an Eles. Again, maybe, you guys will tell me L2P. Why not apply it to you then.Telling GW2 is not rock-paper-scissor, do we even play the same game? And here you talk about balancing,….Give me a break.

Hint: I play an MM Necro and its more of a counter to me than a condi necro… I can’t CC, I can’t chill them, my dagger auto attack is my main source of damage and requires melee, I lack swiftness, and they have (or can have) perma swiftness while snaring myself and my minions. Its literally a harder counter for certain non-condi builds than condies, and it has nothing to do with damage.

This is also true. Engineer’s access to swiftness and immunity to cripple, immobilize, and chill (AR) allow them to easily kite melee damage while at just below 25% hp nullifying quite a bit of melee damage. On the other-hand, engineers have quite an arsenal of immobilize and cripple. This creates killing an engineer difficult even for some power builds.

Is MM Necro is a power build to begin with?

@Zelulose: Do you even see any DD Elementalist complain about dealing with Engineer since he can immune and kite, nullifying melee dams. At least you guys have option to switch to Staff. Eles don’t.

Zelulose.8695:

Rather than comparing experience that varies from player to player, you should look at how much harder the necromancers have to try to even hold their own against any engineer with a brain. If they are having problems its only worse for condition thieves, rangers, even other condition engineers who pale in comparison to the necromancer at dealing conditions.

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