Guild Wars 2

nakoda.4213:

Zelulose.8695:

nakoda.4213:

Zelulose.8695:

nakoda.4213:

im a better bunker thank that video shows and i don’t use AR.

your opponent was on the point the entire time.

The fact that you don’t need AR to bunk just makes AR push past the limit that makes it a little to much in terms of defense.

no, it makes AR a niche build suited only for condi builds.

a good build will be effective against everyone.

But it is effective against everyone.

but it isn’t. necro are one of eight professions.

I fought 1 class, that doesn’t mean its only good FOR 1 class. Holy kitten, are you serious? o.O

nakoda.4213:

Zelulose.8695:

nakoda.4213:

Zelulose.8695:

nakoda.4213:

im a better bunker thank that video shows and i don’t use AR.

your opponent was on the point the entire time.

The fact that you don’t need AR to bunk just makes AR push past the limit that makes it a little to much in terms of defense.

no, it makes AR a niche build suited only for condi builds.

a good build will be effective against everyone.

But it is effective against everyone.

but it isn’t. necro are one of eight professions.

Rangers rely on conditions, some thief builds do too, the longbow warrior needs conditions, the staff Mesmer needs conditions, the necromancer needs conditions the engineer relies on conditions, and what is a guardian without burn and immobilize?

yes i am serious.

let’s see that again against a skilled thief, or ranger, or an equally skilled HGH-nade engie.

or perhaps against a CC mesmer or a farpoint guardian who is actually trying to take the point from you as their primary objective, and not killing you.

your video is a demonstration of a counter build vs the profession and build it is a specific counter to.

let’s see everything else now.

let’s see a 2v1, even.

Also, power builds damage are absorbed by blocks and protection and the massive amount of healing and regeneration owned by the engineer.

nakoda.4213:

your video is a demonstration of a counter build vs the profession and build it is a specific counter to.

let’s see everything else now.

Before we go on, we’re all on the same page that Necros aren’t the only condi users in the game, right?

ronpierce.2760:

I sometimes forget constant healing with bombs that can’t hit any half-decent enemy due of their reduced radius, telegraphed knockbacks like a giant bomb on the field, perma vigor, high uptime regen thanks to a grandmaster trait that require me using bombs that won’t actually hit anyone and a single regen below 25% hp with a non-listed internal cooldown/protection that mainly relies on me getting disabled every 5s and somehow not being knocked off the point despite not having any reliable way of getting stability (cause my tossed elixir has a 50% chance of giving it), perma swiftness, are all things that make for a bad build versus other types too, especially if they are able to play.

Fixed.

oh, and regarding “blocks”, there is a 2s block on a 40s cooldown. Elixir S, as you are invulnerable, makes you unable to contest/hold the point. Amazing, huh.

nakoda.4213:

your video is a demonstration of a counter build vs the profession and build it is a specific counter to.

let’s see everything else now.

let’s see a 2v1, even.

A person should not last over 2 minutes just running around on a point even in a 1vs1.

Zelulose.8695:

A person should not last over 2 minutes just running around on a point even in a 1vs1.

Thats what bunkers are supposed to do in 1v1 scenarios.

Penguin.5197:

Zelulose.8695:

A person should not last over 2 minutes just running around on a point even in a 1vs1.

Thats what bunkers are supposed to do in 1v1 scenarios.

And he was even dying with a build that had the sole purpose of countering him. While the opponent could have had multiple chances of condibursting him when elixir c was on cooldown.

Penguin.5197:

Zelulose.8695:

A person should not last over 2 minutes just running around on a point even in a 1vs1.

Thats what bunkers are supposed to do in 1v1 scenarios.

Then why has every class that could do that had a bunking nerf.

Zelulose.8695:

Penguin.5197:

Zelulose.8695:

A person should not last over 2 minutes just running around on a point even in a 1vs1.

Thats what bunkers are supposed to do in 1v1 scenarios.

Then why has every class that could do that had a bunking nerf.

such as?

Manuhell.2759:

ronpierce.2760:

I sometimes forget constant healing with bombs that can’t hit any half-decent enemy due of their reduced radius, telegraphed knockbacks like a giant bomb on the field, perma vigor, high uptime regen thanks to a grandmaster trait that require me using bombs that won’t actually hit anyone and a single regen below 25% hp with a non-listed internal cooldown/protection that mainly relies on me getting disabled every 5s and somehow not being knocked off the point despite not having any reliable way of getting stability (cause my tossed elixir has a 50% chance of giving it), perma swiftness, are all things that make for a bad build versus other types too, especially if they are able to play.

Fixed.

oh, and regarding “blocks”, there is a 2s block on a 40s cooldown. Elixir S, as you are invulnerable, makes you unable to contest/hold the point. Amazing, huh.

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

Zelulose.8695:

Then why has every class that could do that had a bunking nerf.

Like removing a popular stunbreaker and reducing both the stun and block duration of a shield, you mean?

nakoda.4213:

Zelulose.8695:

Penguin.5197:

Zelulose.8695:

A person should not last over 2 minutes just running around on a point even in a 1vs1.

Thats what bunkers are supposed to do in 1v1 scenarios.

Then why has every class that could do that had a bunking nerf.

such as?

Cleansing wave for the elementalist

So… I just did a tpvp, we won.. I bunked home and guess what. I never died… once. o.O and I even frapsed it! It got neutralized ONCE because I went to drop a supply crate on middle since we desparately needed it, but then we got home back, no problem. Didn’t die once. They had an MM necro, thief, warrior, Engi and idk something else…

ronpierce.2760:

So… I just did a tpvp, we won.. I bunked home and guess what. I never died… once. o.O and I even frapsed it! It got neutralized ONCE because I went to drop a supply crate on middle since we desparately needed it, but then we got home back, no problem. Didn’t die once. They had an MM necro, thief, warrior, Engi and idk something else…

Well now we probably lost our use for bunker gurdians lol.

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Well there is always the blinding field and dodge to use. AR really pushes past what should be a bunking limit.

oh man – what would be when?

so thats it?

all this nonsense in this thread all bout what would be when ?

this build is so useless – even when this necro could not kill you ( he can but the guy in this video is bad^^) he just could fear you out and takt the point and you would never ever get it back cause you make dmg on him like a wet noodle and have no utilities

this necro is glasscanon like all necros atm? than rly? you never ever get him lower than 80% – wtf you wanna show us?

go with your OPbuild some soloQs – and show video from first 10 matches and let us laugh about how your team fight 4vs5

go do it – show how op it is

wtf

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Correction I meant elixir s not c.

Romek.4201:

oh man – what would be when?

so thats it?

all this nonsense in this thread all bout what would be when ?

this build is so useless – even when this necro could not kill you ( he can but the guy in this video is bad^^) he just could fear you out and takt the point and you would never ever get it back cause you make dmg on him like a wet noodle and have no utilities

this necro is glasscanon like all necros atm? than rly? you never ever get him lower than 80% – wtf you wanna show us?

go with your OPbuild some soloQs – and show video from first 10 matches and let us laugh about how your team fight 4vs5

go do it – show how op it is

wtf

He can’t be feared at 25% hp or could just stun break it. Then knock back to take the point back.

I’m not going to fraps 10 games for you, but I did fraps one! I’ll upload it and show you guys. 1-2 guys inc, no problem, had good assists, held it like a champ. Very fun.

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Correction I meant elixir s not c.

Then he can’t protect himself from power bursts outside of the dodges (unless he takes tool kit…and doesn’t use anything else than the cripple and the shield) and a 2s block every 40s. Also, no chance of stability at all. And he still isn’t dealing any damage. In teamfights he would be useless.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Correction I meant elixir s not c.

Then he can’t protect himself from power bursts outside of the dodges (unless he takes tool kit…and doesn’t use anything else than the cripple and the shield) and a 2s block every 40s. Also, no chance of stability at all. And he still isn’t dealing any damage. In teamfights he would be useless.

Well.. Perma Vigor and Sigil of energy, eh that really wasn’t a big deal. Also, Glue bomb, Big Ol Bomb, shield knockback, perma swiftness, some snares thrown in there, it was a good time.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Correction I meant elixir s not c.

Then he can’t protect himself from power bursts outside of the dodges (unless he takes tool kit…and doesn’t use anything else than the cripple and the shield) and a 2s block every 40s. Also, no chance of stability at all. And he still isn’t dealing any damage. In teamfights he would be useless.

If he swaps elixir s with another block or stun breaker such as the tool kit for block and cc or elixir gun for extra regen and stun break he will be fine still.

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Correction I meant elixir s not c.

Then he can’t protect himself from power bursts outside of the dodges (unless he takes tool kit…and doesn’t use anything else than the cripple and the shield) and a 2s block every 40s. Also, no chance of stability at all. And he still isn’t dealing any damage. In teamfights he would be useless.

If he swaps elixir s with another block or stun breaker such as the tool kit for block and cc or elixir gun for extra regen and stun break he will be fine still.

Yeah tbh, I think Elixir gun or tool kit would work better than s in this build, idk I was just toying around, but I could definitely see elixir gun being good for Elixir gun 5 (and using elixir gun 4 in it gives retaliation, that helps with my damage situation!) plus more snares and a shorter CD stunbreak tied to some regen. I could definitely try that out next.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

There are also 2 knock backs and elixir c could be swapped with any other defensive skill if you need a point contesting stun breaker.

The shield is the only one really usable there. But this build suppose that you are running round the point, cause you would be attacked in melee otherwise – so it won’t be easy to knockback the enemy outside
Regarding the Big Ol’ Bomb…if someone gets hit with it, it is entirely its fault. You can see it on the floor and there is a delay on its activation.
And if you switch elixir C for something else you won’t be able to protect from already applied conditions. The antidote from the med kit heals just a single condition and there isn’t anything else regarding condition removals there. No, the 8% trait isn’t enough.

Correction I meant elixir s not c.

Then he can’t protect himself from power bursts outside of the dodges (unless he takes tool kit…and doesn’t use anything else than the cripple and the shield) and a 2s block every 40s. Also, no chance of stability at all. And he still isn’t dealing any damage. In teamfights he would be useless.

Bunkers don’t need awesome damage to support their teams.

ronpierce.2760:

I’m not going to fraps 10 games for you, but I did fraps one! I’ll upload it and show you guys. 1-2 guys inc, no problem, had good assists, held it like a champ. Very fun.

And for all we know, you could have uploaded the only match you actually won. See how easy is to disprove videos?

You did it as well before, after all.

ronpierce.2760:

Well.. Perma Vigor and Sigil of energy, eh that really wasn’t a big deal. Also, Glue bomb, Big Ol Bomb, shield knockback, perma swiftness, some snares thrown in there, it was a good time.

The first two attacks are telegraphed and one of those has a smaller radius due of untraited bombs; so if anyone wakitten by that, well, just his fault. The shield knockback is fine, but knocking someone outside the point depends on its positioning; again, can be the opponent’s fault (especially since your build is based on kiting the opponent).
Again, you do negligible damage, and there is near to no support there. In a teamfight, assuming the opponents are even able to play, this build is near useless.

Zelulose.8695:

Bunkers don’t need awesome damage to support their teams.

In a teamfight you need either that or support, to avoid enemies focusing first on your mate and then on you. This build has none.
The elixir gun could help in that sense. It comes with an additional risk in 1vs1, though. A smart opponent could wait for him to put down the super elixir and wait for him to go above the treshhold, and then condiburst him down. The only way to avoid being healed in that case would be going out of the area, that means either getting near the opponent, or outside the point.

sorrow.2364:

Divus.3175:

Something, what was mentioned in this thread like thousand times: wait with your condi burst for a moment, when engi has about 40% hp. And his dead, because he can’t clear all damage condis with longer duration. If you want to kill a bunker you should go full glass, that is how it’s balanced. If you’re not taking full glass canon, get an ally.

Necro 30/30/10/0/0 should easily kill engi bunker. You can easily get bleed, poison, tornment and burning traited. No bunker engi will cleanse all this condis and remain under 25% hp, because most of his cleansing skills heal him. Fighting ele would still be much harder, because of passive condi cleanse, like cleansing condis on regen apply. Ele is hard to kill, engi is meh for skilled player. If you can’t kill engi, who has no real passive condi cleanse, you’re bad player. That’s your problem. You’ve got several other problems, like refusing learning with help of other skilled players, and lack of ability to discuss on forum.

Yeah, try to do some silly theorycrafting to prove your points.
There are a video in this topic showing how AR is incredibly stupid and how it really hurts condition builds automatically, without the engineer to know what he’s doing.

We are not asking you how to counter AR, in case you didn’t noticed, we are just trying to make you notice how that skill is just stupid balance-wise, which is something you accurately ignored.

You keep saying it’s stupid. I’m here to remind you that that isn’t an argument or a basis for an argument. Yes—it triggers automatically. No, the engineer has to do nothing to trigger it except reach 25% health. What you refuse to acknowledge is that to take advantage of this trait takes skill and practice. The video presented is staged. The necromancer is both badly played and his skill and trait choice is obfuscated. If we could see the entire video from the necromancer’s perspective I’m sure we would see some major flaws in his game play and a build that is so narrow as to make the very contrived and not-at-all realistic engineer build seem overpowered.

So your argument is that it’s “stupid,” your evidence fraudulently obtained, and you all still refuse to address our points. You’re not gaining much ground here.

• Developers have stated that grandmaster traits should be build defining and feel powerful.

• eSports are team sports, yet you have all removed your teammates from the equation.

• It takes skill to anticipate AR triggering and then to recover after is has triggers except in a very contrived test that doesn’t in any way reflect real gameplay footage.

• The game isn’t balanced around 1v1 encounters.

• Meta countering builds have always and will always exist to keep the game (and all games of its type) healthy and keep it from stagnating.

Also—page views and comments don’t lend credence to your complaint. Anyone who reads the substance of this thread can see that.

I only did the 1 tourney so far, which was a win. I didn’t even have TIME to run multiple XD I’ll try more though, don’t you worry. The main reason id ont want to do 10 is because of how long it takes to process them onto Youtube…

Manuhell.2759:

ronpierce.2760:

I’m not going to fraps 10 games for you, but I did fraps one! I’ll upload it and show you guys. 1-2 guys inc, no problem, had good assists, held it like a champ. Very fun.

And for all we know, you could have uploaded the only match you actually won. See how easy is to disprove videos?

You did it as well before, after all.

ronpierce.2760:

Well.. Perma Vigor and Sigil of energy, eh that really wasn’t a big deal. Also, Glue bomb, Big Ol Bomb, shield knockback, perma swiftness, some snares thrown in there, it was a good time.

The first two attacks are telegraphed and one of those has a smaller radius due of untraited bombs; so if anyone wakitten by that, well, just his fault. The shield knockback is fine, but knocking someone outside the point depends on its positioning; again, can be the opponent’s fault (especially since your build is based on kiting the opponent).
Again, you do negligible damage, and there is near to no support there. In a teamfight, assuming the opponents are even able to play, this build is near useless..

Relax it’s a bunker build meant to hold a point not an aoe healing build when there are no allies bunking with him or aoe conditions/raw damage. Hope this clears any misunderstanding =)

In any case I hope they fix the engineer to delay point caping rather than prevent it.

Don’t waste your time uploading another video, ronpierce.

They will surely say that the enemy team is bad or that the match was staged in a private arena.

At this point its gone long enough that I would just like a balance dev to stop lurking behind the forums and tell us their stance on this.

sorrow.2364:

Don’t waste your time uploading another video, ronpierce.

They will surely say that the enemy team is bad or that the match was staged in a private arena.

Or he can upload only the videos where he wins.
People here insisted so much that the video with the engineer dieing was either staged or on purpose, so the opposite can be true too.
Either you trust all of them, or none.

Penguin.5197:

At this point its gone long enough that I would just like a balance dev to stop lurking behind the forums and tell us their stance on this.

Would be better, indeed. So that we can see if whining about nothing works so well.

Manuhell.2759:

Or he can upload only the videos where he wins.
People here insisted so much that the video with the engineer dieing was either staged or on purpose, so the opposite can be true too.
Either you trust all of them, or none.

Who said that the video with the engineer dieing was staged?

That video proves our point more than ever. That engineer died only because he made the horrible mistake to heal back when he was at under 25% hp. He could have just sit under 25% HP and extending his 17s of immunity indefinitely.

Manuhell.2759:

sorrow.2364:

Don’t waste your time uploading another video, ronpierce.

They will surely say that the enemy team is bad or that the match was staged in a private arena.

Or he can upload only the videos where he wins.
People here insisted so much that the video with the engineer dieing was either staged or on purpose, so the opposite can be true too.
Either you trust all of them, or none.

Penguin.5197:

At this point its gone long enough that I would just like a balance dev to stop lurking behind the forums and tell us their stance on this.

Would be better, indeed. So that we can see if whining about nothing works so well.

The people supporting AR use l2p or stop ranting or we don’t have x so stop complaining about AR while those who are against AR think engineers have enough condition removal or it is ridiculously op just from the description or they compare it to other classes defensive traits. I probably missed alot from both sides but this is the general disagreement.

ronpierce.2760:

I only did the 1 tourney so far, which was a win. I didn’t even have TIME to run multiple XD I’ll try more though, don’t you worry. The main reason id ont want to do 10 is because of how long it takes to process them onto Youtube…

Your sample size is terrible.

Grackleflint.4956:

ronpierce.2760:

I only did the 1 tourney so far, which was a win. I didn’t even have TIME to run multiple XD I’ll try more though, don’t you worry. The main reason id ont want to do 10 is because of how long it takes to process them onto Youtube…

Your sample size is terrible.

Why don’t you just upload the build sucking in a tourney. It’s not very hard to do.

This time, with an engineer who knows what they are doing….

ronpierce.2760:

This time, with an engineer who knows what they are doing….

Even with a skilled engineer, I will be honest. Although both can be faked it is much harder to fake a win than a loss.

This kitten still going? lol

I drink your tears. Ahhhh, refreshing.

I hope the balancing team explains to us what they plan to do after getting so many posts.

Yeah, 8 pages in 3 days honestly deserves some sort of heads up.

Though for the most part its just like the same six people arguing here

All his video showed was an anti condition trait working as intended against a condition build. If it was against a d/d bunker ele the necro fought it would have been gf since their condi removal is very superior to engis. Did you also notice how high the necros health was throughout the fight compared to his.

This video shows that your necro friend runs nothing but conditions and this is a trait that directly counters that in a tournament all you needed was one player from either team to roll in and that would have ended the fight in that persons favor. This trait would be OP if you were still dishing out massive damage at 25% which ended the fight then and there also in your build forceful explosives> speedy kits

Penguin.5197:

Though for the most part its just like the same six people arguing here

True but also look at the views

Zelulose.8695:

Penguin.5197:

Though for the most part its just like the same six people arguing here

True but also look at the views

how many times today did you hit refresh?

us 5 alone are probably responsible for over 1kviews today.

6 people made 1k views? I tried the refresh just now but it didn’t work to add views.
But Lets stay on topic.