Guild Wars 2

I know u cant prevent players get dc. But at least u can make it fair for each team.s.
Like;
1. U can let teams get 6th member. And when 1 player got dc 6th memeber can get into his/her place like 15-20 scnd laer or something like that.
2. or give some buffs team that got dc(like vitaly thoughness power). . .

Bcoz its not fun watchin a match that turn to other team bcoz of dc’ed player.

Yeah! Just have them in spectate mode :|

It’s not like anyone would try to counter comp. Everyone runs the same kitten team comp XD

or just have pause option in private arenas like every other competitive game does.

MadVisions.4529:

or just have pause option in private arenas like every other competitive game does.

only acceptable with battletoads pause music.

With what happened in the vermillion vs. TCG match last night, I felt that I absolutely had to post in a thread like this because I am just unable to get over how much of a bad decision it was to just let that match carry on with the constant disconnects that vm had. If the result of that match stands then season 2 of the pro league is absolutely ruined for me, because that was the absolute most important series of the EU pro league when It comes to finals qualification and it was decided by a dc. Absolutely terrible. I really hope that the match is replayed at a later date. if they won’t let it happen with a different meta, then there is still next week to play it, have 6 games that week, I really don’t care. It will be a huge mistake for that match not to be replayed. If TCG win it as a 5v5 that is fine, but just don’t let a dc decide the most important game of the entire EU pro league.

Sorry if that sounded like me raging, but I needed to post something like that just to get rid of all the frustration I feel about that match. As for the OP, I think that having a 6th player in the match as a spectator would really help because it would limit the impact of a disconnect and allow matches to be fair which can only be a positive thing. If that is not allowed then I think that there should just be a reset of the game no matter when in the game it happens (maybe unless one team has more than a 200 point lead or something) and then if another dc happens then I think that the remainder of the series should be played on another week (keep it at 1-0 or 1-1 if those games were fine). It just stops me from enjoying the pro league if games are decided by disconnects so I hope the rules are changed.

It was not decided by a dc, it was decided by a ddos

suffish.4150:

With what happened in the vermillion vs. TCG match last night, I felt that I absolutely had to post in a thread like this because I am just unable to get over how much of a bad decision it was to just let that match carry on with the constant disconnects that vm had. If the result of that match stands then season 2 of the pro league is absolutely ruined for me, because that was the absolute most important series of the EU pro league when It comes to finals qualification and it was decided by a dc. Absolutely terrible. I really hope that the match is replayed at a later date. if they won’t let it happen with a different meta, then there is still next week to play it, have 6 games that week, I really don’t care. It will be a huge mistake for that match not to be replayed. If TCG win it as a 5v5 that is fine, but just don’t let a dc decide the most important game of the entire EU pro league.

Sorry if that sounded like me raging, but I needed to post something like that just to get rid of all the frustration I feel about that match. As for the OP, I think that having a 6th player in the match as a spectator would really help because it would limit the impact of a disconnect and allow matches to be fair which can only be a positive thing. If that is not allowed then I think that there should just be a reset of the game no matter when in the game it happens (maybe unless one team has more than a 200 point lead or something) and then if another dc happens then I think that the remainder of the series should be played on another week (keep it at 1-0 or 1-1 if those games were fine). It just stops me from enjoying the pro league if games are decided by disconnects so I hope the rules are changed.

Agreed with the force of a thousand suns
Although it is out of Anet’s hands at this point – it’s completely up to ESL

Yeah i was think “Pause” Option but i am not sure about it. Bcoz Anet’s PvP has small maps not like other PvP maps. And it can effect players badly while in fight btw players will be always in fights.

Agree with u suffish.4150 That why i created this Topic maybe Anet can read this. Puprlu Noise’s match was really good. And Vermillion vs TCG could do same as Purple Noise do. But they blocked that with lettin the match continue 4 vs 5 which is totally unfair. This is not Ranked/Unranked match. that is Pro League. U must foresee most probelems and u must have some solutions for that. Also Dc is biggest issue in Anet for Anet, i think. i dont think so any ppl had fun from last nites match :/

I remeber previous seasons of ESL 1 player always keep gettin dc beacuse of ddos attacaks and anet was saying there is no problem from ur side. And Anet deciced make that match offline.

The guy didn’t get ddosed as he didnt dc from ts. It was a connection issue to the gw2 servers. lol no drama here

Lordrosicky.5813:

The guy didn’t get ddosed as he didnt dc from ts. It was a connection issue to the gw2 servers. lol no drama here

His TS was lagging. The reason gw2 dced and the ts didn’t was that TS doesn’t require as much internet as gw2 does. So gw2 dced but the ts, while lagging, stayed online.

Lordrosicky.5813:

The guy didn’t get ddosed as he didnt dc from ts. It was a connection issue to the gw2 servers. lol no drama here

The thing is, that shouldn’t make any difference. My point was that the game was decided on a 4v5, which is true. In a game as important as TCG against vermillion, the match should not be decided by a 4v5 no matter what caused that 4v5. Because of this, there really does need to be a rematch and the pro league will be pretty much ruined if there isn’t because I don’t think anyone would say that TCG much of a chance at coming back into either of those 2 games. Of course, they could have but that is extremely unlikely.

Infernaeus.8473:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The guy didn’t get ddosed as he didnt dc from ts. It was a connection issue to the gw2 servers. lol no drama here

His TS was lagging. The reason gw2 dced and the ts didn’t was that TS doesn’t require as much internet as gw2 does. So gw2 dced but the ts, while lagging, stayed online.

If you get ddosed nothing works dude lol. He probably has kittenty internet

Obviously ddosed, since the lag starts with 2 minutes battle, and ends when tcg won

suffish.4150:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The guy didn’t get ddosed as he didnt dc from ts. It was a connection issue to the gw2 servers. lol no drama here

The thing is, that shouldn’t make any difference. My point was that the game was decided on a 4v5, which is true. In a game as important as TCG against vermillion, the match should not be decided by a 4v5 no matter what caused that 4v5. Because of this, there really does need to be a rematch and the pro league will be pretty much ruined if there isn’t because I don’t think anyone would say that TCG much of a chance at coming back into either of those 2 games. Of course, they could have but that is extremely unlikely.

The pro league was ruined anyway dude. Nobody watches it. The standard of play is awful for such money available. And pvp in general is a joke. Like this drama should be a big issue on sites like reddit. But it isnt because nobody cares about gw2 pvp

Collero.7963:

Wishes.3021:

suffish.4150:

With what happened in the vermillion vs. TCG match last night, I felt that I absolutely had to post in a thread like this because I am just unable to get over how much of a bad decision it was to just let that match carry on with the constant disconnects that vm had. If the result of that match stands then season 2 of the pro league is absolutely ruined for me, because that was the absolute most important series of the EU pro league when It comes to finals qualification and it was decided by a dc. Absolutely terrible. I really hope that the match is replayed at a later date. if they won’t let it happen with a different meta, then there is still next week to play it, have 6 games that week, I really don’t care. It will be a huge mistake for that match not to be replayed. If TCG win it as a 5v5 that is fine, but just don’t let a dc decide the most important game of the entire EU pro league.

Sorry if that sounded like me raging, but I needed to post something like that just to get rid of all the frustration I feel about that match. As for the OP, I think that having a 6th player in the match as a spectator would really help because it would limit the impact of a disconnect and allow matches to be fair which can only be a positive thing. If that is not allowed then I think that there should just be a reset of the game no matter when in the game it happens (maybe unless one team has more than a 200 point lead or something) and then if another dc happens then I think that the remainder of the series should be played on another week (keep it at 1-0 or 1-1 if those games were fine). It just stops me from enjoying the pro league if games are decided by disconnects so I hope the rules are changed.

Agreed with the force of a thousand suns
Although it is out of Anet’s hands at this point – it’s completely up to ESL

ESL doesn’t give a kitten about who wins or loses, and what is fair etc. Why would they?

It’s either that or the ESL team handling the “Pro” League are dribbling slugs that have no idea. It literally takes 2 minutes after what happened to make a decision, it barely requires any looking into.

Thank kitten that I chose to leave this game earlier this year.

You only left earlier this year? wow you stayed at least 12 months too long.

Just to give my 2 cents

TCG did what they were supposed to do. If we are playing football/basketball/baseball and your best player gets injured and go on. No one stops to say hey its not fair.

No one said last year in the NBA finals, hey cavs its ok we will wait for kevin love and Irving to get healthy so we can play. TCG did what they needed to do and i prefer the decision they made.

On one of the posts, you said have 1 player in spectate mode. I disagree since thats another pair of eyes to watch and chat on rotations, cant have that. Obviously they took a break to find a sub which they did not have. Once again that comes down to a roster issue which many of these video game ESPORTS have issues with.

kdaddy.5431:

Just to give my 2 cents

TCG did what they were supposed to do. If we are playing football/basketball/baseball and your best player gets injured and go on. No one stops to say hey its not fair.

No one said last year in the NBA finals, hey cavs its ok we will wait for kevin love and Irving to get healthy so we can play. TCG did what they needed to do and i prefer the decision they made.

On one of the posts, you said have 1 player in spectate mode. I disagree since thats another pair of eyes to watch and chat on rotations, cant have that. Obviously they took a break to find a sub which they did not have. Once again that comes down to a roster issue which many of these video game ESPORTS have issues with.

Any expecting helseth or those followers of his to have to sportsmanship to afk during a game are deluded and cant of interacted with them much in game. The french guys in his team have made repeated racist comments in gw2 pvp chat (one of them in particular) before with no punishment in games I have been in. Helseth himself basically has the role of gw2 bully and is lauded by anet who apparently support his type of behavior which involves demeaning and abusing anyone he interacts with on gw2.

So yeh. Anyone thinking these people would play fair are hilarious. Not going to happen

suffish.4150:

With what happened in the vermillion vs. TCG match last night, I felt that I absolutely had to post in a thread like this because I am just unable to get over how much of a bad decision it was to just let that match carry on with the constant disconnects that vm had. If the result of that match stands then season 2 of the pro league is absolutely ruined for me, because that was the absolute most important series of the EU pro league when It comes to finals qualification and it was decided by a dc. Absolutely terrible. I really hope that the match is replayed at a later date. if they won’t let it happen with a different meta, then there is still next week to play it, have 6 games that week, I really don’t care. It will be a huge mistake for that match not to be replayed. If TCG win it as a 5v5 that is fine, but just don’t let a dc decide the most important game of the entire EU pro league.

Sorry if that sounded like me raging, but I needed to post something like that just to get rid of all the frustration I feel about that match. As for the OP, I think that having a 6th player in the match as a spectator would really help because it would limit the impact of a disconnect and allow matches to be fair which can only be a positive thing. If that is not allowed then I think that there should just be a reset of the game no matter when in the game it happens (maybe unless one team has more than a 200 point lead or something) and then if another dc happens then I think that the remainder of the series should be played on another week (keep it at 1-0 or 1-1 if those games were fine). It just stops me from enjoying the pro league if games are decided by disconnects so I hope the rules are changed.

A few things,

What professional sport eve allows for replayed matches?

Vermillion had a chance to grab a sub to jump in but they didnt have one available so what if this happened again in the next match?

As anyone who has ever played a sport said, you take it one game at a time. Injuries (dcs) happen and you live threw it and move on. No one owes anyone a rematch and no one should have a player watching in spectate mode.

If they can create a sit room where the player sees nothing and then ok im with you on a sub. Otherwise like any team in any sport trying to make the playoffs, you take it on the chin.

Lordrosicky.5813:

kdaddy.5431:

Just to give my 2 cents

TCG did what they were supposed to do. If we are playing football/basketball/baseball and your best player gets injured and go on. No one stops to say hey its not fair.

No one said last year in the NBA finals, hey cavs its ok we will wait for kevin love and Irving to get healthy so we can play. TCG did what they needed to do and i prefer the decision they made.

On one of the posts, you said have 1 player in spectate mode. I disagree since thats another pair of eyes to watch and chat on rotations, cant have that. Obviously they took a break to find a sub which they did not have. Once again that comes down to a roster issue which many of these video game ESPORTS have issues with.

Any expecting helseth or those followers of his to have to sportsmanship to afk during a game are deluded and cant of interacted with them much in game. The french guys in his team have made repeated racist comments in gw2 pvp chat before with no punishment. Helseth himself basically has the role of gw2 bully and is lauded by anet who apparently support his type of behavior which involves demeaning and abusing anyone he interacts with on gw2.

So yeh. Anyone thinking these people would play fair are hilarious. Not going to happen

Even so thats what they do and i wont comment on that.

Im only commenting from the competitive PRO league aspect.

Lets just say we are on a team and we are competing and the other team has a dc. We could be respectful stand out guys. I would still say no we have to take this. In game chat would look like “sorry for your dc” but i would do the same thing.

If your playing for a state,district, national championship, world championship you have to go for it. In MMA if you see a guys eye is swollen, your going to attack him on that side of the eye.

Thats just how it goes sometimes, now TCG kind of being the thugs of EU. Every PRO scene needs it villains so i guess that what it is.

kdaddy.5431:

If we are playing football/basketball/baseball and your best player gets injured and go on.

Not really, if a player gets injured in most team sports, then at an appropriate point (or immediately if the injury is clearly serious) the ref/umpire stops play and they get substituted for another player from the bench, in many sports if a player is clearly injured, especially if it looks serious even the opposition will stop play.

kdaddy.5431:

Lordrosicky.5813:

kdaddy.5431:

Just to give my 2 cents

TCG did what they were supposed to do. If we are playing football/basketball/baseball and your best player gets injured and go on. No one stops to say hey its not fair.

No one said last year in the NBA finals, hey cavs its ok we will wait for kevin love and Irving to get healthy so we can play. TCG did what they needed to do and i prefer the decision they made.

On one of the posts, you said have 1 player in spectate mode. I disagree since thats another pair of eyes to watch and chat on rotations, cant have that. Obviously they took a break to find a sub which they did not have. Once again that comes down to a roster issue which many of these video game ESPORTS have issues with.

Any expecting helseth or those followers of his to have to sportsmanship to afk during a game are deluded and cant of interacted with them much in game. The french guys in his team have made repeated racist comments in gw2 pvp chat before with no punishment. Helseth himself basically has the role of gw2 bully and is lauded by anet who apparently support his type of behavior which involves demeaning and abusing anyone he interacts with on gw2.

So yeh. Anyone thinking these people would play fair are hilarious. Not going to happen

Even so thats what they do and i wont comment on that.

Im only commenting from the competitive PRO league aspect.

Lets just say we are on a team and we are competing and the other team has a dc. We could be respectful stand out guys. I would still say no we have to take this. In game chat would look like “sorry for your dc” but i would do the same thing.

If your playing for a state,district, national championship, world championship you have to go for it. In MMA if you see a guys eye is swollen, your going to attack him on that side of the eye.

Thats just how it goes sometimes, now TCG kind of being the thugs of EU. Every PRO scene needs it villains so i guess that what it is.

Its not really villains though. I don’t think any game is helped by people just being rude and horrible to everyone they interact with in the game. People need to learn that interacting over the internet like on gw2 is just like interacting in real life. It just uses the medium of the internet. Certain people should remember that when they are horrible to a screen-name on gw2 they are actually being horrible to a person.

Either way, these issues shouldn’t exist. Anet don’t have the infrastructure to cope with these issues and they haven’t created a game that is good to watch either. So they are spending $200k to market the game but this marketting will have negative effects because all these tournaments do is highlight the flaws in guild wars 2.

Lordrosicky.5813:

kdaddy.5431:

Lordrosicky.5813:

kdaddy.5431:

Just to give my 2 cents

TCG did what they were supposed to do. If we are playing football/basketball/baseball and your best player gets injured and go on. No one stops to say hey its not fair.

No one said last year in the NBA finals, hey cavs its ok we will wait for kevin love and Irving to get healthy so we can play. TCG did what they needed to do and i prefer the decision they made.

On one of the posts, you said have 1 player in spectate mode. I disagree since thats another pair of eyes to watch and chat on rotations, cant have that. Obviously they took a break to find a sub which they did not have. Once again that comes down to a roster issue which many of these video game ESPORTS have issues with.

Any expecting helseth or those followers of his to have to sportsmanship to afk during a game are deluded and cant of interacted with them much in game. The french guys in his team have made repeated racist comments in gw2 pvp chat before with no punishment. Helseth himself basically has the role of gw2 bully and is lauded by anet who apparently support his type of behavior which involves demeaning and abusing anyone he interacts with on gw2.

So yeh. Anyone thinking these people would play fair are hilarious. Not going to happen

Even so thats what they do and i wont comment on that.

Im only commenting from the competitive PRO league aspect.

Lets just say we are on a team and we are competing and the other team has a dc. We could be respectful stand out guys. I would still say no we have to take this. In game chat would look like “sorry for your dc” but i would do the same thing.

If your playing for a state,district, national championship, world championship you have to go for it. In MMA if you see a guys eye is swollen, your going to attack him on that side of the eye.

Thats just how it goes sometimes, now TCG kind of being the thugs of EU. Every PRO scene needs it villains so i guess that what it is.

Its not really villains though. I don’t think any game is helped by people just being rude and horrible to everyone they interact with in the game. People need to learn that interacting over the internet like on gw2 is just like interacting in real life. It just uses the medium of the internet. Certain people should remember that when they are horrible to a screen-name on gw2 they are actually being horrible to a person.

Either way, these issues shouldn’t exist. Anet don’t have the infrastructure to cope with these issues and they haven’t created a game that is good to watch either. So they are spending $200k to market the game but this marketting will have negative effects because all these tournaments do is highlight the flaws in guild wars 2.

Just my 2 cents on this issue. Grow a thicker skin, you’ll get hurt ALOT in both irl and on the internet if you’re that sensitive. People can be really cruel irl and are, that’s just the nature for some. I mean you read news right, you can see all the horrible kitten happening around the globe and no-one bats an eye when their life is all good. Now on to the disconnection issue, even in dota2 (which has millions in the scene and is easily the most funded esport out there) there is a pause and remake function but the pause time on most tournaments is limited. Remakes are only made if the connection issues are with the dota2-server or all players are affected by it and agree to remake. I’ve seen dota2 teams play with 4 players in way more valuable tournaments than gw2 proleague. This is why the finals are lans so issues like this don’t exist. kitten happens with online games and connections all the time just have to get over it.

kdaddy.5431:

Just to give my 2 cents

TCG did what they were supposed to do. If we are playing football/basketball/baseball and your best player gets injured and go on. No one stops to say hey its not fair.

No one said last year in the NBA finals, hey cavs its ok we will wait for kevin love and Irving to get healthy so we can play. TCG did what they needed to do and i prefer the decision they made.

On one of the posts, you said have 1 player in spectate mode. I disagree since thats another pair of eyes to watch and chat on rotations, cant have that. Obviously they took a break to find a sub which they did not have. Once again that comes down to a roster issue which many of these video game ESPORTS have issues with.

As i know most of games have Pause mode.

In real sport injured player gets replaced.

Thou you tried to make a point.

It was a clear DDoS attack.

DC and DDoS attack should handled in a different ways from ESL admins. I hope they can investigate and replay the game, because the entire EU Pro League for this Season is kittened for what’s happened.

No one wants this, TCG doesn’t want to win in this way, Spectators don’t want this, Other teams don’t want this.

It was a clear sabotage, there is no drama here, it’s a pure fact pretty evident.

Raek.8504:

kdaddy.5431:

Just to give my 2 cents

TCG did what they were supposed to do. If we are playing football/basketball/baseball and your best player gets injured and go on. No one stops to say hey its not fair.

No one said last year in the NBA finals, hey cavs its ok we will wait for kevin love and Irving to get healthy so we can play. TCG did what they needed to do and i prefer the decision they made.

On one of the posts, you said have 1 player in spectate mode. I disagree since thats another pair of eyes to watch and chat on rotations, cant have that. Obviously they took a break to find a sub which they did not have. Once again that comes down to a roster issue which many of these video game ESPORTS have issues with.

As i know most of games have Pause mode.

In real sport injured player gets replaced.

Thou you tried to make a point.

I dont know how other esport games go maybe they are different rules.

In real sports a player does substitute but when a starter for instance like Vermillions top 5 player dc. It takes alot out, for instance a star player in basketball goes down. The team doesnt make it to the expected goal.

Kevin garnett in boston won a championship, got hurt the next year and team lost in semi. Then he came back and they got back to the finals.

Vermillion lost a player a player you cant replace. In HS the team i was on was projected as a top team in the state and potential nation. I had surgery before the season started and the best player tore his MCL. This was both our senior years. The team won 2 games after we went to states the previous year. We both had scholarships for playing in college taken away.

The dc Vermillion had was a game changing and potentially season changing. I might be a little to old being in my 30’s but to me this is what being part of a real competitive scene is.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Infernaeus.8473:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The guy didn’t get ddosed as he didnt dc from ts. It was a connection issue to the gw2 servers. lol no drama here

His TS was lagging. The reason gw2 dced and the ts didn’t was that TS doesn’t require as much internet as gw2 does. So gw2 dced but the ts, while lagging, stayed online.

If you get ddosed nothing works dude lol. He probably has kittenty internet

Not true. DDoS can have varying level of denial depending on the type and amount of attack, depending as well as numerous factors on the victims end.

Not saying it was a DDoS, no idea though, didn’t watch.

well, thats life.

online league come with unknown factors, lag, dc, crash etc.
furthermore, the organizer and opponents have no way to confirm if you are faking it.

personally, when i was playing pro when i was younger, i only participate online league once and i find the online league then has many flaws which allow people to exploit.

live tournament still the best, you cant beat the sensation at live too.

Collero.7963:

Lordrosicky.5813:

kdaddy.5431:

Lordrosicky.5813:

kdaddy.5431:

Just to give my 2 cents

TCG did what they were supposed to do. If we are playing football/basketball/baseball and your best player gets injured and go on. No one stops to say hey its not fair.

No one said last year in the NBA finals, hey cavs its ok we will wait for kevin love and Irving to get healthy so we can play. TCG did what they needed to do and i prefer the decision they made.

On one of the posts, you said have 1 player in spectate mode. I disagree since thats another pair of eyes to watch and chat on rotations, cant have that. Obviously they took a break to find a sub which they did not have. Once again that comes down to a roster issue which many of these video game ESPORTS have issues with.

Any expecting helseth or those followers of his to have to sportsmanship to afk during a game are deluded and cant of interacted with them much in game. The french guys in his team have made repeated racist comments in gw2 pvp chat before with no punishment. Helseth himself basically has the role of gw2 bully and is lauded by anet who apparently support his type of behavior which involves demeaning and abusing anyone he interacts with on gw2.

So yeh. Anyone thinking these people would play fair are hilarious. Not going to happen

Even so thats what they do and i wont comment on that.

Im only commenting from the competitive PRO league aspect.

Lets just say we are on a team and we are competing and the other team has a dc. We could be respectful stand out guys. I would still say no we have to take this. In game chat would look like “sorry for your dc” but i would do the same thing.

If your playing for a state,district, national championship, world championship you have to go for it. In MMA if you see a guys eye is swollen, your going to attack him on that side of the eye.

Thats just how it goes sometimes, now TCG kind of being the thugs of EU. Every PRO scene needs it villains so i guess that what it is.

Its not really villains though. I don’t think any game is helped by people just being rude and horrible to everyone they interact with in the game. People need to learn that interacting over the internet like on gw2 is just like interacting in real life. It just uses the medium of the internet. Certain people should remember that when they are horrible to a screen-name on gw2 they are actually being horrible to a person.

Either way, these issues shouldn’t exist. Anet don’t have the infrastructure to cope with these issues and they haven’t created a game that is good to watch either. So they are spending $200k to market the game but this marketting will have negative effects because all these tournaments do is highlight the flaws in guild wars 2.

nah bro, just helseth persona man, just his persona, he nice guy rly, just his persona dude.

lol. Ok I will go and abuse people at the bar. When they get annoyed I will say “chill dude, I am a really nice guy! Its my persona!”. You are how you act. End of story. . Whatever small amount of justification you want to give it.

DDoS mate. It happens quite often to me aswell

mrauls.6519:

Yeah! Just have them in spectate mode :|

It’s not like anyone would try to counter comp. Everyone runs the same kitten team comp XD

You do realise they can SPECTATE the enemy too, right? It wouldn’t make any sense to let them have a player spectate.

I think they should play it again. If not, whether it was TCG or a deranged fan, what is the point of even having a competition?

Collero.7963:

Lordrosicky.5813:

kdaddy.5431:

Lordrosicky.5813:

kdaddy.5431:

Just to give my 2 cents

TCG did what they were supposed to do. If we are playing football/basketball/baseball and your best player gets injured and go on. No one stops to say hey its not fair.

No one said last year in the NBA finals, hey cavs its ok we will wait for kevin love and Irving to get healthy so we can play. TCG did what they needed to do and i prefer the decision they made.

On one of the posts, you said have 1 player in spectate mode. I disagree since thats another pair of eyes to watch and chat on rotations, cant have that. Obviously they took a break to find a sub which they did not have. Once again that comes down to a roster issue which many of these video game ESPORTS have issues with.

Any expecting helseth or those followers of his to have to sportsmanship to afk during a game are deluded and cant of interacted with them much in game. The french guys in his team have made repeated racist comments in gw2 pvp chat before with no punishment. Helseth himself basically has the role of gw2 bully and is lauded by anet who apparently support his type of behavior which involves demeaning and abusing anyone he interacts with on gw2.

So yeh. Anyone thinking these people would play fair are hilarious. Not going to happen

Even so thats what they do and i wont comment on that.

Im only commenting from the competitive PRO league aspect.

Lets just say we are on a team and we are competing and the other team has a dc. We could be respectful stand out guys. I would still say no we have to take this. In game chat would look like “sorry for your dc” but i would do the same thing.

If your playing for a state,district, national championship, world championship you have to go for it. In MMA if you see a guys eye is swollen, your going to attack him on that side of the eye.

Thats just how it goes sometimes, now TCG kind of being the thugs of EU. Every PRO scene needs it villains so i guess that what it is.

Its not really villains though. I don’t think any game is helped by people just being rude and horrible to everyone they interact with in the game. People need to learn that interacting over the internet like on gw2 is just like interacting in real life. It just uses the medium of the internet. Certain people should remember that when they are horrible to a screen-name on gw2 they are actually being horrible to a person.

Either way, these issues shouldn’t exist. Anet don’t have the infrastructure to cope with these issues and they haven’t created a game that is good to watch either. So they are spending $200k to market the game but this marketting will have negative effects because all these tournaments do is highlight the flaws in guild wars 2.

nah bro, just helseth persona man, just his persona, he nice guy rly, just his persona dude.

When Helseth transfers his ‘persona’ to harass random people he see not on stream or his friends: He’s either pathetic, not a persona, or he has <70 IQ.

More ways are needed to remind meddling script kiddies that it’s futile to try and affect the GW2PL results. Cyber attack interferences have been consistent with LAN qualifying matches in GW2 dating back to the World Tournament Series #1.

We can’t let this become an example of how manipulating the system will get you the desired results.

A pause feature would stop all motivation to interfere and increase the production quality of PvP streams. Since a pause feature would require ArenaNet to ship content, in the least, continue to hold off-stream matches decided at a private time, as is the precedent that’s been set for when repeated cyber attacks happened in the past.

It is a question for esl how to proceed. I checked their website. So far the game has not been included in the table. I think you cannot blame them for not doing anything since they were surprised by what was happening. Furthermore, it looks like a ddos attack. However, I saw in the video of frosty only skill-lags and dcs. It could also be a problem of game mechanics (just to give another explanation). The case needs to be analysed and I doubt that here is the right place for it.

It is a further question about how to avoid such cases in the future (assuming ddos attacks). ArenaNet has lots of experience with ddos attacks. I see some potential to act and/or advice from their side as well.

Injury is a poor analogy for this. It is more like someone from the stands coming into the field of play, tackling the player and not letting them play while the game goes on with no stoppage. I’m not sure any professional would want to compete in that type of environment.

kdaddy.5431:

suffish.4150:

With what happened in the vermillion vs. TCG match last night, I felt that I absolutely had to post in a thread like this because I am just unable to get over how much of a bad decision it was to just let that match carry on with the constant disconnects that vm had. If the result of that match stands then season 2 of the pro league is absolutely ruined for me, because that was the absolute most important series of the EU pro league when It comes to finals qualification and it was decided by a dc. Absolutely terrible. I really hope that the match is replayed at a later date. if they won’t let it happen with a different meta, then there is still next week to play it, have 6 games that week, I really don’t care. It will be a huge mistake for that match not to be replayed. If TCG win it as a 5v5 that is fine, but just don’t let a dc decide the most important game of the entire EU pro league.

Sorry if that sounded like me raging, but I needed to post something like that just to get rid of all the frustration I feel about that match. As for the OP, I think that having a 6th player in the match as a spectator would really help because it would limit the impact of a disconnect and allow matches to be fair which can only be a positive thing. If that is not allowed then I think that there should just be a reset of the game no matter when in the game it happens (maybe unless one team has more than a 200 point lead or something) and then if another dc happens then I think that the remainder of the series should be played on another week (keep it at 1-0 or 1-1 if those games were fine). It just stops me from enjoying the pro league if games are decided by disconnects so I hope the rules are changed.

A few things,

What professional sport eve allows for replayed matches?

Vermillion had a chance to grab a sub to jump in but they didnt have one available so what if this happened again in the next match?

As anyone who has ever played a sport said, you take it one game at a time. Injuries (dcs) happen and you live threw it and move on. No one owes anyone a rematch and no one should have a player watching in spectate mode.

If they can create a sit room where the player sees nothing and then ok im with you on a sub. Otherwise like any team in any sport trying to make the playoffs, you take it on the chin.

Faux Play.6104:

Injury is a poor analogy for this. It is more like someone from the stands coming into the field of play, tackling the player and not letting them play while the game goes on with no stoppage. I’m not sure any professional would want to compete in that type of environment.

kdaddy.5431:

suffish.4150:

With what happened in the vermillion vs. TCG match last night, I felt that I absolutely had to post in a thread like this because I am just unable to get over how much of a bad decision it was to just let that match carry on with the constant disconnects that vm had. If the result of that match stands then season 2 of the pro league is absolutely ruined for me, because that was the absolute most important series of the EU pro league when It comes to finals qualification and it was decided by a dc. Absolutely terrible. I really hope that the match is replayed at a later date. if they won’t let it happen with a different meta, then there is still next week to play it, have 6 games that week, I really don’t care. It will be a huge mistake for that match not to be replayed. If TCG win it as a 5v5 that is fine, but just don’t let a dc decide the most important game of the entire EU pro league.

Sorry if that sounded like me raging, but I needed to post something like that just to get rid of all the frustration I feel about that match. As for the OP, I think that having a 6th player in the match as a spectator would really help because it would limit the impact of a disconnect and allow matches to be fair which can only be a positive thing. If that is not allowed then I think that there should just be a reset of the game no matter when in the game it happens (maybe unless one team has more than a 200 point lead or something) and then if another dc happens then I think that the remainder of the series should be played on another week (keep it at 1-0 or 1-1 if those games were fine). It just stops me from enjoying the pro league if games are decided by disconnects so I hope the rules are changed.

A few things,

What professional sport eve allows for replayed matches?

Vermillion had a chance to grab a sub to jump in but they didnt have one available so what if this happened again in the next match?

As anyone who has ever played a sport said, you take it one game at a time. Injuries (dcs) happen and you live threw it and move on. No one owes anyone a rematch and no one should have a player watching in spectate mode.

If they can create a sit room where the player sees nothing and then ok im with you on a sub. Otherwise like any team in any sport trying to make the playoffs, you take it on the chin.

No its not

A person coming from the stands stops play for 5-15 min and the players go on as if nothing happened. The only thing that might change is the momentum and in the moment adrenaline.

I injury is a unexpected event which can dramatically change a person game/career.

This is esports so its a bunch of people sitting on computer and they will come back the next week. Losing a internet connection is the same as a player having a injury. Depending on how long the dc is, the amount of time missed, the teams ability to deal with the time loss of that player.

Its the exact same thing, there is so much that can be said. You got people crying here because of trash talking. Please stop that, if you do anything competitively you are gonna talk smack vs the person you are playing.

You got people talking rematch, you play when you are suppose to play. Apex/ zero counter play last year couldnt come up with 5 players so they had to forfeit. Vermillion couldnt get 5 players who could show up and people are asking for a rematch. WHAT?

I know this is a new generation of everything has to be fair and equal and we should all play nice with one another which is great for in game play.

This is supposed to be the PRO LEAGUES. These are suppose to be the best players on the best teams. Playing on the days they are scheduled, real talk. I was in a summer sponsored bball game. Between 32 teams, double elimination and in the first match the team we were suppose to play bus broke down and couldnt make the first match.

Guess what we didnt wait for them, please if we are gonna call this PRO LEAGUES can pretend that the word PRO stands for PROFESSIONAL?

kdaddy.5431:

Faux Play.6104:

Injury is a poor analogy for this. It is more like someone from the stands coming into the field of play, tackling the player and not letting them play while the game goes on with no stoppage. I’m not sure any professional would want to compete in that type of environment.

kdaddy.5431:

suffish.4150:

With what happened in the vermillion vs. TCG match last night, I felt that I absolutely had to post in a thread like this because I am just unable to get over how much of a bad decision it was to just let that match carry on with the constant disconnects that vm had. If the result of that match stands then season 2 of the pro league is absolutely ruined for me, because that was the absolute most important series of the EU pro league when It comes to finals qualification and it was decided by a dc. Absolutely terrible. I really hope that the match is replayed at a later date. if they won’t let it happen with a different meta, then there is still next week to play it, have 6 games that week, I really don’t care. It will be a huge mistake for that match not to be replayed. If TCG win it as a 5v5 that is fine, but just don’t let a dc decide the most important game of the entire EU pro league.

Sorry if that sounded like me raging, but I needed to post something like that just to get rid of all the frustration I feel about that match. As for the OP, I think that having a 6th player in the match as a spectator would really help because it would limit the impact of a disconnect and allow matches to be fair which can only be a positive thing. If that is not allowed then I think that there should just be a reset of the game no matter when in the game it happens (maybe unless one team has more than a 200 point lead or something) and then if another dc happens then I think that the remainder of the series should be played on another week (keep it at 1-0 or 1-1 if those games were fine). It just stops me from enjoying the pro league if games are decided by disconnects so I hope the rules are changed.

A few things,

What professional sport eve allows for replayed matches?

Vermillion had a chance to grab a sub to jump in but they didnt have one available so what if this happened again in the next match?

As anyone who has ever played a sport said, you take it one game at a time. Injuries (dcs) happen and you live threw it and move on. No one owes anyone a rematch and no one should have a player watching in spectate mode.

If they can create a sit room where the player sees nothing and then ok im with you on a sub. Otherwise like any team in any sport trying to make the playoffs, you take it on the chin.

No its not

A person coming from the stands stops play for 5-15 min and the players go on as if nothing happened. The only thing that might change is the momentum and in the moment adrenaline.

I injury is a unexpected event which can dramatically change a person game/career.

This is esports so its a bunch of people sitting on computer and they will come back the next week. Losing a internet connection is the same as a player having a injury. Depending on how long the dc is, the amount of time missed, the teams ability to deal with the time loss of that player.

Its the exact same thing, there is so much that can be said. You got people crying here because of trash talking. Please stop that, if you do anything competitively you are gonna talk smack vs the person you are playing.

You got people talking rematch, you play when you are suppose to play. Apex/ zero counter play last year couldnt come up with 5 players so they had to forfeit. Vermillion couldnt get 5 players who could show up and people are asking for a rematch. WHAT?

I know this is a new generation of everything has to be fair and equal and we should all play nice with one another which is great for in game play.

This is supposed to be the PRO LEAGUES. These are suppose to be the best players on the best teams. Playing on the days they are scheduled, real talk. I was in a summer sponsored bball game. Between 32 teams, double elimination and in the first match the team we were suppose to play bus broke down and couldnt make the first match.

Guess what we didnt wait for them, please if we are gonna call this PRO LEAGUES can pretend that the word PRO stands for PROFESSIONAL?

We had 5 players, but one of us got ddos’d right after the 2minute mark, so whoever did it knows the ESL rules, get your facts straight before you say something.

Also if you rewatch vods there is a pattern of the dc’s, really easy to figure out

But they are basically condoning ddos if they don’t replay. It’s saying if you want to win do it to the other team before they do it to you. They can’t ajudicate it and they won’t replay the match. It’s wrong. The only solution is to replay.

jessiestiles.9437:

But they are basically condoning ddos if they don’t replay. It’s saying if you want to win do it to the other team before they do it to you. They can’t ajudicate it and they won’t replay the match. It’s wrong. The only solution is to replay.

Yeah, basicly saying Ddos is allowed, which is what noone really wants I think?

Argilla.8340:

kdaddy.5431:

Faux Play.6104:

Injury is a poor analogy for this. It is more like someone from the stands coming into the field of play, tackling the player and not letting them play while the game goes on with no stoppage. I’m not sure any professional would want to compete in that type of environment.

kdaddy.5431:

suffish.4150:

With what happened in the vermillion vs. TCG match last night, I felt that I absolutely had to post in a thread like this because I am just unable to get over how much of a bad decision it was to just let that match carry on with the constant disconnects that vm had. If the result of that match stands then season 2 of the pro league is absolutely ruined for me, because that was the absolute most important series of the EU pro league when It comes to finals qualification and it was decided by a dc. Absolutely terrible. I really hope that the match is replayed at a later date. if they won’t let it happen with a different meta, then there is still next week to play it, have 6 games that week, I really don’t care. It will be a huge mistake for that match not to be replayed. If TCG win it as a 5v5 that is fine, but just don’t let a dc decide the most important game of the entire EU pro league.

Sorry if that sounded like me raging, but I needed to post something like that just to get rid of all the frustration I feel about that match. As for the OP, I think that having a 6th player in the match as a spectator would really help because it would limit the impact of a disconnect and allow matches to be fair which can only be a positive thing. If that is not allowed then I think that there should just be a reset of the game no matter when in the game it happens (maybe unless one team has more than a 200 point lead or something) and then if another dc happens then I think that the remainder of the series should be played on another week (keep it at 1-0 or 1-1 if those games were fine). It just stops me from enjoying the pro league if games are decided by disconnects so I hope the rules are changed.

A few things,

What professional sport eve allows for replayed matches?

Vermillion had a chance to grab a sub to jump in but they didnt have one available so what if this happened again in the next match?

As anyone who has ever played a sport said, you take it one game at a time. Injuries (dcs) happen and you live threw it and move on. No one owes anyone a rematch and no one should have a player watching in spectate mode.

If they can create a sit room where the player sees nothing and then ok im with you on a sub. Otherwise like any team in any sport trying to make the playoffs, you take it on the chin.

No its not

A person coming from the stands stops play for 5-15 min and the players go on as if nothing happened. The only thing that might change is the momentum and in the moment adrenaline.

I injury is a unexpected event which can dramatically change a person game/career.

This is esports so its a bunch of people sitting on computer and they will come back the next week. Losing a internet connection is the same as a player having a injury. Depending on how long the dc is, the amount of time missed, the teams ability to deal with the time loss of that player.

Its the exact same thing, there is so much that can be said. You got people crying here because of trash talking. Please stop that, if you do anything competitively you are gonna talk smack vs the person you are playing.

You got people talking rematch, you play when you are suppose to play. Apex/ zero counter play last year couldnt come up with 5 players so they had to forfeit. Vermillion couldnt get 5 players who could show up and people are asking for a rematch. WHAT?

I know this is a new generation of everything has to be fair and equal and we should all play nice with one another which is great for in game play.

This is supposed to be the PRO LEAGUES. These are suppose to be the best players on the best teams. Playing on the days they are scheduled, real talk. I was in a summer sponsored bball game. Between 32 teams, double elimination and in the first match the team we were suppose to play bus broke down and couldnt make the first match.

Guess what we didnt wait for them, please if we are gonna call this PRO LEAGUES can pretend that the word PRO stands for PROFESSIONAL?

We had 5 players, but one of us got ddos’d right after the 2minute mark, so whoever did it knows the ESL rules, get your facts straight before you say something.

Also if you rewatch vods there is a pattern of the dc’s, really easy to figure out

That is a different issue, i was relating a issue with dc in the match.

Not cheating, i watched the matches and this seemed to be the only match with this problem. Also if you have any issue you would just like any competitive scene take it to a official to go under review. I wasnt going to assume it was a attack but took it from a literal perspective.

jessiestiles.9437:

But they are basically condoning ddos if they don’t replay. It’s saying if you want to win do it to the other team before they do it to you. They can’t ajudicate it and they won’t replay the match. It’s wrong. The only solution is to replay.

But also let’s be honest: I don’t disconnect. Why do others disconnect that often? I just have a regular €29 flatrate and connect via RJ-45. If a phone company disconnects your calls every once in a while, you wouldn’t stay as customer there.

But apart from that “Sorry, I laaaag”, “Sorry, I D/C!!!!” and stuff like that that makes me wonder on what awful hardware you play or ISP you feed with your money I think a pause function would make sense. If they can’t reconnect within a certain amount of time they can decide to surrender – to avoid ragequit abuse.

EDIT: I just overread the ESL in the thread title and thought it derailed to a general D/C topic. My bad!

kdaddy.5431:

That is a different issue, i was relating a issue with dc in the match.

Not cheating, i watched the matches and this seemed to be the only match with this problem. Also if you have any issue you would just like any competitive scene take it to a official to go under review. I wasnt going to assume it was a attack but took it from a literal perspective.

The reason for thinking it was more than internet issues is you can see Frosty’s internet is fine before the game and during the first 3 minutes and for a long time after the game. It was only those 8 minutes or so in both games that his internet becomes completely unusable. It occured at almost the same point on the timer in both games. So there’s a clear pattern here. TCG was probably going to lose in both games. There’s your motive. Unless we are given evidence to the contrary it looks very much like sabotage.

jessiestiles.9437:

kdaddy.5431:

That is a different issue, i was relating a issue with dc in the match.

Not cheating, i watched the matches and this seemed to be the only match with this problem. Also if you have any issue you would just like any competitive scene take it to a official to go under review. I wasnt going to assume it was a attack but took it from a literal perspective.

The reason for thinking it was more than internet issues is you can see Frosty’s internet is fine before the game and during the first 3 minutes and for a long time after the game. It was only those 8 minutes or so in both games that his internet becomes completely unusable. It occured at almost the same point on the timer in both games. So there’s a clear pattern here. TCG was probably going to lose in both games. There’s your motive. Unless we are given evidence to the contrary it looks very much like sabotage.

I understand that but once again you dont get to decide that. Vermillion looked like they were going to win both matches until it happened.

First few things you have to say

1- Does TCG have a history of this happening?
2- Does this player have a history of internet complications?
3- Does the ESL league have the ability to look into what potentially happened as well as Anet?

Everyone is coming on here saying they “have” to replay when you can almost guarantee that the power above have looked into the situation. If they see it as a lets move on, you have to go off of that.

Making accusations and conspiracy theories because people dont like a team/players/ PvP system isnt how things work.

I dunno if it’s worst this DDoS on a Pro League match or the fact ORng Logo disbanded and Rom and Dainshee joined TCG (WTF??)

Something really weird is happening in this Season and the fact People can do this (I mean DDoS and kittening games or disband teams during season and join other teams) is an absolute joke.

It’s really impossible for a pvp scene grows in these conditions.

Phil.8901:

I dunno if it’s worst this DDoS on a Pro League match or the fact ORng Logo disbanded and Rom and Dainshee joined TCG (WTF??)

Something really weird is happening in this Season and the fact People can do this (I mean DDoS and kittening games or disband teams during season and join other teams) is an absolute joke.

It’s really impossible for a pvp scene grows in these conditions.

You know whats hilarious about this (if its true, i dont follow to closely just occasionally watched ESL games when out with the kids and ill check it out on my phone)

There was a huge thread about OE being kicked from Apex and i others made comments about the actual infrastructure of these teams.

ESL players came to the defense of certain things but once again just like this thread. People are looking for the easiest way in/out and these are not real teams and its not a real Pro league.

I know there isnt contracts and im not sure what ESL rules and other things are involved. But even as a H.S school athlete there were serious rules about transfers, eligibility among other things. Even when you go into semi-pro stuff or try to red shirt into college sports.

Here in GW2 its almost like kids playing and 1 says i dont like you anymore or i want to be on the winning team. So things just change, like spookie and the caed thing. OE and Apex etc etc etc

Everyone has there points about each topic but im really just trying to point out that the GW2 ESL league isnt very professional, the people in it/watching act more like children and to cap it off Anet/ESL league need to do a better job of setting up rules and regulations for actual structured teams. All of which is my opinion.

kdaddy.5431:

jessiestiles.9437:

kdaddy.5431:

That is a different issue, i was relating a issue with dc in the match.

Not cheating, i watched the matches and this seemed to be the only match with this problem. Also if you have any issue you would just like any competitive scene take it to a official to go under review. I wasnt going to assume it was a attack but took it from a literal perspective.

The reason for thinking it was more than internet issues is you can see Frosty’s internet is fine before the game and during the first 3 minutes and for a long time after the game. It was only those 8 minutes or so in both games that his internet becomes completely unusable. It occured at almost the same point on the timer in both games. So there’s a clear pattern here. TCG was probably going to lose in both games. There’s your motive. Unless we are given evidence to the contrary it looks very much like sabotage.

I understand that but once again you dont get to decide that. Vermillion looked like they were going to win both matches until it happened.

First few things you have to say

1- Does TCG have a history of this happening?
2- Does this player have a history of internet complications?
3- Does the ESL league have the ability to look into what potentially happened as well as Anet?

Everyone is coming on here saying they “have” to replay when you can almost guarantee that the power above have looked into the situation. If they see it as a lets move on, you have to go off of that.

Making accusations and conspiracy theories because people dont like a team/players/ PvP system isnt how things work.

1. We don’t know that TCG did this. It could have been anyone.
2. We can see from Frostball’s POV video there was no internet problem before or after the match. That’s a pretty discriminating internet connection if that was the case. His immediate reaction was it is a DDOS attack. Someone with a tempremental internet connection would probably blame their internet first.
3. As I understand it currently proof is being sought from the isp.

Look at the big picture and consider future games where people in the audience can decide the outcome of a match. You’ve also seen the lengths people go to for digital rewards so we can imagine what someone would do for $50000. Pretty much anything. In a professional sport this would be taken very seriously and safegaurds would be put in place to prevent it because it would kitten off players and spectators. As a fanatical sports enthusiast I’d think you’d want to discuss rationally instead of calling people children and conspiracy theorists.

kdaddy.5431:

Phil.8901:

I dunno if it’s worst this DDoS on a Pro League match or the fact ORng Logo disbanded and Rom and Dainshee joined TCG (WTF??)

Something really weird is happening in this Season and the fact People can do this (I mean DDoS and kittening games or disband teams during season and join other teams) is an absolute joke.

It’s really impossible for a pvp scene grows in these conditions.

You know whats hilarious about this (if its true, i dont follow to closely just occasionally watched ESL games when out with the kids and ill check it out on my phone)

There was a huge thread about OE being kicked from Apex and i others made comments about the actual infrastructure of these teams.

ESL players came to the defense of certain things but once again just like this thread. People are looking for the easiest way in/out and these are not real teams and its not a real Pro league.

I know there isnt contracts and im not sure what ESL rules and other things are involved. But even as a H.S school athlete there were serious rules about transfers, eligibility among other things. Even when you go into semi-pro stuff or try to red shirt into college sports.

Here in GW2 its almost like kids playing and 1 says i dont like you anymore or i want to be on the winning team. So things just change, like spookie and the caed thing. OE and Apex etc etc etc

Everyone has there points about each topic but im really just trying to point out that the GW2 ESL league isnt very professional, the people in it/watching act more like children and to cap it off Anet/ESL league need to do a better job of setting up rules and regulations for actual structured teams. All of which is my opinion.

I agree, this Pro League is like a kids amateur tournament, no more, no less.

No one can take serious a stuff like that.

kdaddy.5431:

Phil.8901:

I dunno if it’s worst this DDoS on a Pro League match or the fact ORng Logo disbanded and Rom and Dainshee joined TCG (WTF??)

Something really weird is happening in this Season and the fact People can do this (I mean DDoS and kittening games or disband teams during season and join other teams) is an absolute joke.

It’s really impossible for a pvp scene grows in these conditions.

You know whats hilarious about this (if its true, i dont follow to closely just occasionally watched ESL games when out with the kids and ill check it out on my phone)

There was a huge thread about OE being kicked from Apex and i others made comments about the actual infrastructure of these teams.

ESL players came to the defense of certain things but once again just like this thread. People are looking for the easiest way in/out and these are not real teams and its not a real Pro league.

I know there isnt contracts and im not sure what ESL rules and other things are involved. But even as a H.S school athlete there were serious rules about transfers, eligibility among other things. Even when you go into semi-pro stuff or try to red shirt into college sports.

Here in GW2 its almost like kids playing and 1 says i dont like you anymore or i want to be on the winning team. So things just change, like spookie and the caed thing. OE and Apex etc etc etc

Everyone has there points about each topic but im really just trying to point out that the GW2 ESL league isnt very professional, the people in it/watching act more like children and to cap it off Anet/ESL league need to do a better job of setting up rules and regulations for actual structured teams. All of which is my opinion.

And in other news, ROM and Denshee left oRNG and joined TCG today, effectively leaving oRNG without a working roster.

The viking king join his majesty Lord Helseth ?? Well that’s something worth celebrating