Guild Wars 2

love you for that changes <3

cool beans
/15

Warrior Nerf! Thank you for finally killing that build, as a warrior I want the class to be hard again!

Wow, I might actually pvp again if these things happen.

From necro PoV: Please nerf signet of spite more. Other nerfs are big enough to matter which should bring necro down alot (mark of blood and weakening shroud nerfs are pretty good and big). Only sucky thing is that immunity ele trait. What is the obsession with not letting skill decide fights. Immunity isnt fun.

These mesmer changes encourage Duel builds for bad mesmers who need a crutch,
like Low skill cap Phantasm/Prismatic Understanding builds..

Am I misunderstanding or is this Grandmaster trait Useless?
Domination XII Confounding Suggestions. Changed to increase daze duration by 25%.
25% duration(Trait)
30% Con.duration(30 Domination)
15% Sigil of Paralysation = Only 70%
You also need to get Runes of the Mesmer 33%
So A full build for what? 1 extra second on daze?
Pretty underwhelming when compared to any good GM traits imho.

I for one am not a fan of Mantras, I find them clunky and bad game design like Spirit Ranger but that’s just personal opinion, good changes for mantra mesmers… I guess?

All in all tournament viable(yet suboptimal) mesmer builds didn’t get much imho… Hopefully we don’t need anything with the S/d thief necro and warrior balance changes.

thought same when saw this trait on ele patchnotes

plz dont give another imun to the game – change it to something like:
when ele heal to more than 90% than he remove 1-2 conditions – no icd

typical anet patch politic.. needed shaving for warrior as example is hold back to release a full packet.

Thanks for the ele nerfs. They’re just what everyone has been expecting.

I’m curious to know why a Ranger 15 Trait is now better than a Warrior’s 25 trait.

Mighty Swap gives both the Ranger and their pet 3 stacks of Might upon the pet being activated. This can occur every 10 seconds.

Versatile Power gives the Warrior 1 stack of Might upon switching weapons. This can occur every 10 seconds, or 5 when using the minor trait Fast Hands.

Even with 15 points in Discipline the Ranger now has better access to Might AND it affects their pet as well. In what ways do you believe this to be a balanced trait?

Also, I’d like to point out that Thieves and Guardians get 10% damage while their Endurance is not full while Warriors only get 3%. Shouldn’t the Warrior trait be brought up to a similar level?

Zanryu.3417:

I’m curious to know why a Ranger 15 Trait is now better than a Warrior’s 25 trait.

Mighty Swap gives both the Ranger and their pet 3 stacks of Might upon the pet being activated. This can occur every 10 seconds.

Versatile Power gives the Warrior 1 stack of Might upon switching weapons. This can occur every 10 seconds, or 5 when using the minor trait Fast Hands.

Even with 15 points in Discipline the Ranger now has better access to Might AND it affects their pet as well. In what ways do you believe this to be a balanced trait?

Also, I’d like to point out that Thieves and Guardians get 10% damage while their Endurance is not full while Warriors only get 3%. Shouldn’t the Warrior trait be brought up to a similar level?

An ele grandmaster trait is worse than a warrior adept trait.

You can not compare traits across classes. It does not work.

Here’s a repost of what I posted in that thread,

I very much agree with the changes to warriors especially. It accomplishes the goal of reducing their effectiveness without completely removing them from competitive play. It does it in a really great way as well, as it address all of the core issues (besides sustain, below), without changing builds that are not intended to be altered. For example, nerfing Combustive Shot for power scaling while buffing it for condition scaling reduces the AoE potential for hammer builds but keeps condition builds just as strong and maybe even stronger. The hammer damage nerfs are probably okay to get away with seeing as how you didn’t change warrior’s sustain at all.

Unsuspecting Foe I feel is actually mainly a Skull Crack nerf more than a Hammer nerf honestly, but that’s okay. Between that and making Skull Crack able to be reliably avoided, the build is actually much more balanced. It maybe was not overpowered, but it was annoying mechanically to play against. An indirect consequence of this is that Greatsword Mastery is now not really possible to get. This is a nerf to their mobility and 100B burst, which I don’t really feel needed a nerf, but it’s very minor regardless. I imagine a build like 0/20/20/0/30 or 0/30/20/0/20 will be the new norm with all of these changes.

Anyways, regarding warrior sustain: I really think that you should look into it. It’s all tied completely into Healing Signet right now. Relying only on one ability is not very fun, and due to its passive nature it’s also annoying to play against. The only true counter to Healing Signet is poison, which Cleansing Ire makes irrelevant, and burst damage. I realize warrior’s should have a counter, but I don’t think it ought to be tied to their heal only, and their sustain shouldn’t be passive either. I think something along these lines would partially accomplish what I want:

Reduce Healing Signet base heal by about 25% (from 390 to 300 hps, in line with 3 bar Healing Surge), while at the same time increase the healing power scaling so that @1000 healing power it’ll do equivalent to what it does today at 1000 healing power. This change will reduce the inherent healing of non-healing power builds, while not effecting bunkers who choose to take Clerics amulet.

Increase Healing Surge level 0 to level 2 heals, to make it more competitive with Healing Signet. Healing Surge is the only option vs burst damage, which the meta will eventually shift towards again.

Since I want to see active healing, I think making a trait that heals for every bar of adrenaline spent. I don’t want to see this tied to Cleansing Ire, since that trait is so good and it shouldn’t be a mechanic used by bunkers. Putting it in Discipline would probably make sense as a Master trait, or maybe adding it into Burst Mastery. I’m thinking something kind of minor, but able to supplement the normal healing, of around 350 per bar, with maybe 0.3 scaling. With 30 points in Discipline and 200 healing power this works out to about 150 hps if used on CD. It might be a bit too high, but this is the general idea. The point isn’t to nerf warrior sustain, it’s to reallocate it. So 100 hps less from Healing Signet, but you can get 150 hps more with this trait if used optimally.

Anyways, that’s only an idea of what I want. To sum it up, I think it would be better if warrior healing was more active and from more than one source. Great changes overall though.

thief will be killed. Totally killed.

S/D needed a nerf, now you killed basically everything a thief will be able to do, forcing us into D/P trickery which is absolutely not capable to handle meta builds, even after the upcoming nerfs to wars, necros and spirit rangers and totally killing any Sword build.

i am astounished, this is the most ridicolous nerf hammer i’ve ever seen, altough i can agree with the “reasoning behind” ( reducing thief need to go deep with traits in order to get initiative).

/grumble

Confounding Suggestions.. Ugh. I’d rather the stun. The daze duration synergizes beautifully with Runes of the Mesmer (which also needs a buff)

All of the changes are kind of awesome, but Confounding Suggestions barely merited Grandmaster as it is. What makes it so good is that the 50% stun chance makes it MUCH easier to chance down fleeing opponents as well as escape crappy situations. Increasing daze duration takes that away, but gives us the potential (w/Mesmer runes) for a near 2-second daze, making the DazeMantra -> OH SwordDaze -> DazeMantra combo into a beastly 6-second daze… assuming they don’t just run away from you.

I’d much rather them make the 25-point in Domination grant a 20% daze duration increase. The Confounding change is still barely grandmaster-worthy IMO, if its an addition to the stun chance, then it becomes freakin’ glorious and totally worth the 30 points.

Larynx.2453:

Zanryu.3417:

I’m curious to know why a Ranger 15 Trait is now better than a Warrior’s 25 trait.

Mighty Swap gives both the Ranger and their pet 3 stacks of Might upon the pet being activated. This can occur every 10 seconds.

Versatile Power gives the Warrior 1 stack of Might upon switching weapons. This can occur every 10 seconds, or 5 when using the minor trait Fast Hands.

Even with 15 points in Discipline the Ranger now has better access to Might AND it affects their pet as well. In what ways do you believe this to be a balanced trait?

Also, I’d like to point out that Thieves and Guardians get 10% damage while their Endurance is not full while Warriors only get 3%. Shouldn’t the Warrior trait be brought up to a similar level?

An ele grandmaster trait is worse than a warrior adept trait.

You can not compare traits across classes. It does not work.

The traits listed do similar things. The Ranger traits is far better and requires less point investment. The second example was unrelated to that, however it is something I’d like to see addressed.

I’ll indulge you though, let’s compare the minor traits in each of their respective lines of both classes.

Strength/Fire

Warrior Adept: Reckless Dodge Damage foes at the end of a dodge roll.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Burning Rage Deal more damage to burning foes.

Arms/Air

Warrior Adept: Precise Strikes Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Weak Spot Chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.

Defense/Earth

Warrior Adept: Thick Skin Gain extra armor while your health is above the threshold.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Enduring Damage Deal more damage when your endurance is full. (Note: This also grants 10% damage, as opposed to 3%.)

Tactics/Water

Warrior Adept: Determined Revival Gain extra toughness per level while reviving.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Bountiful Power Deal more damage for each boon on you.

Discipline/Arcana

Warrior Adept: Versatile Rage Gain adrenaline on weapon swap.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Arcane Precision Skills have a chance to apply a condition on critical hits.

So, you’re right. For all the wrong reasons. You can’t compare traits across different because there’s a substantial difference in their power and effects, which is how it should be. The only skill that’s possibly on the same level, not worse mind you, is Air 25 and Warrior 5 as they both apply conditions on crit.

If anything this supports the question of “Why is a Ranger Master trait superior to a Warrior Grandmaster trait?”

Zanryu.3417:

Larynx.2453:

Zanryu.3417:

I’m curious to know why a Ranger 15 Trait is now better than a Warrior’s 25 trait.

Mighty Swap gives both the Ranger and their pet 3 stacks of Might upon the pet being activated. This can occur every 10 seconds.

Versatile Power gives the Warrior 1 stack of Might upon switching weapons. This can occur every 10 seconds, or 5 when using the minor trait Fast Hands.

Even with 15 points in Discipline the Ranger now has better access to Might AND it affects their pet as well. In what ways do you believe this to be a balanced trait?

Also, I’d like to point out that Thieves and Guardians get 10% damage while their Endurance is not full while Warriors only get 3%. Shouldn’t the Warrior trait be brought up to a similar level?

An ele grandmaster trait is worse than a warrior adept trait.

You can not compare traits across classes. It does not work.

The traits listed to similar things. The Ranger traits is far better and requires less point investment. The second example was unrelated to that, however it is something I’d like to see addressed.

I’ll indulge you though, let’s compare the minor traits in each of their respective lines of both classes.

Strength/Fire

Warrior Adept: Reckless Dodge Damage foes at the end of a dodge roll.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Burning Rage Deal more damage to burning foes.

Arms/Air

Warrior Adept: Precise Strikes Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Weak Spot Chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.

Defense/Earth

Warrior Adept: Thick Skin Gain extra armor while your health is above the threshold.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Enduring Damage Deal more damage when your endurance is full. (Note: This also grants 10% damage, as opposed to 3%.)

Tactics/Water

Warrior Adept: Determined Revival Gain extra toughness per level while reviving.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Bountiful Power Deal more damage for each boon on you.

Discipline/Arcana

Warrior Adept: Versatile Rage Gain adrenaline on weapon swap.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Arcane Precision Skills have a chance to apply a condition on critical hits.

So, you’re right. For all the wrong reasons. You can’t compare traits across different because there’s a substantial difference in their power and effects, which is how it should be. The only skill that’s possibly on the same level, not worse mind you, is Air 25 and Warrior 5 as they both apply conditions on crit.

If anything this supports the question of “Why is a Ranger Master trait superior to a Warrior Grandmaster trait?”

You can’t compare traits across classes because the context in which those traits are in is completely different. A warrior has almost double the base health of a guardian. A guardian has 300 more armor than an ele. A thief has more means of stealthing than a mesmer.

Classes are different, and different classes are balanced around their unique class mechanics.

So…no meaningful warrior nerf?

Basically instead of 0/10/30/0/30 we go 0/20/20/0/30? Ok….

Sifu.6527:

So…no meaningful warrior nerf?

Basically instead of 0/10/30/0/30 we go 0/20/20/0/30? Ok….

23% damage nerf to Earthshaker
23% damage nerf to Staggering Blow
Combustive Shot nerfed
Unable to take Unsuspecting Foe without sacrificing Merciless Hammer or Burst Mastery.

Yeah, nothing meaningful here.

Great job ArenaNet for being proactive with patch note improvements.

Can we think about not reducing the damage on staggering blow and just reverting the cast time/rooting to the original? This will make the skill much harder to land and still leave warrior hammer burst semi-viable.

Just something to consider.

Just want to say thank you. You guys really put in a lot of work for a game with no pay to win model and even for us pvp folk. No other mmo out there would do this kind of thing for such a small community.

•Arcane V – Elemental Attunement. Moved to Master tier.
•Arcane VI – Renewing Stamina. Moved to Master tier.

Another nerf to D/D to the level of RTL 200% nerf.

GG if you want all players enjoyng D/D gameplay to quit at all cost you will be sure this time.

RTL was one of the most unfun nerf i ever seen in a game.
This is even worse…for PvE and WWW.

I hope you are happy of how much you destroyed those in the sake of your terrible PvP.

If this arrives in PvE i think i ll find the final reson to quit this great game ruined since day 1 patch after patch.

I already quit PvP…i quit WWW and now its time for pve.

LordByron.8369:

•Arcane V – Elemental Attunement. Moved to Master tier.
•Arcane VI – Renewing Stamina. Moved to Master tier.

Another nerf to D/D to the level of RTL 200% nerf.

GG if you want all players enjoyng D/D gameplay to quit at all cost you will be sure this time.

RTL was one of the most unfun nerf i ever seen in a game.
This is even worse…for PvE and WWW.

I hope you are happy of how much you destroyed those in the sake of your terrible PvP.

If this arrives in PvE i think i ll find the final reson to quit this great game ruined since day 1 patch after patch.

I already quit PvP…i quit WWW and now its time for pve.

Relax man, learn to adapt and try new things. They ain’t trying to ruin any class. They are balancing all over.

Larynx.2453:

You can’t compare traits across classes because the context in which those traits are in is completely different. A warrior has almost double the base health of a guardian. A guardian has 300 more armor than an ele. A thief has more means of stealthing than a mesmer.

Classes are different, and different classes are balanced around their unique class mechanics.

That logic would hold up if classes didn’t already have multiple traits that do the same thing. However, as I’ve already shown, they do. Certain traits function more or less the same regardless of what class it’s on, and Warriors seem to get the shaft when it comes to minor traits. I’m simply posing the question “Why?”.

It seems more likely that WHERE traits are (Strength as opposed to Tactics, Arcana as opposed to Air) is based on each classes unique builds and playstyles, while a fair amount do more or less the same thing and are tossed in where it would seem fitting.

Sure, class plays a role in it, but Rangers have roughly the same attack power as a Warrior does when it comes to comparing zerk builds. Also, they have more effective range options. I don’t see how them having a skill that grants them AND their pet Might like that for less point investment is really justified.

So again, I pose the question, “Why?”.

John,

Could you please explain the symbol of swiftness change, I am not fully understanding it. Is it a nerf, and if so, why. Guardians need buff in the mobility department, not nerfs.

Also, can we please buff spirit weapons some how. Thanks for your time.

Respectfully,
Sauncho

JonathanSharp.7094:

Sauncho.8076:

John,

Could you please explain the symbol of swiftness change, I am not fully understanding it. Is it a nerf, and if so, why. Guardians need buff in the mobility department, not nerfs.

Also, can we please buff spirit weapons some how. Thanks for your time.

Respectfully,
Sauncho

It’s actually an improvement in a lot of cases. But, having said that, we don’t want the Guardian to be TOO mobile. Guardians are a very strong presence on any battlefield, so we want to make sure we don’t give them too much mobility + defense.

An improvement, I see. Perfect, thanks for the response…

Copypasta-ing
My thoughts are this, the sword is a hit & run/in & out weapon set at its base, it’s what connects S/D and S/P on a frequent level. Infiltrator’s strike is the Swords identity.
I feel atm, Thief would be better off molding the two Sword sets with that in mind. So I propose changes to Infiltrator’s strike

1. Keep that idea of a cast time on Shadow return, that can work.
2. Reduce the duration of Infiltration to 6 or 7 seconds.
3. Increase the power co-efficient of Infiltrator’s Strike, consider removing/reducing the immobilize (consider)
4. Revert the range 1200 range limitation on Shadow return.

With that in mind these two changes to the off hands
1. Increase the velocity of the Dancing dagger projectile so it’s a more reliable snare
2. Have Black Powder, as a ground-target, strengthening it as a support skill.
3. Increase the duration of Cloak and Daggers vulnerability.

Infiltration lasts long, it allows you ample time to commit to a fight while having an escape. Reducing it gives you time to fight, but you have to then decide if you’re going to use your initiative to pop out, or if you are going to stay in and lose the escape. With half the duration, that becomes more of a reality, with half the duration the distance you travel from the return point significantly decreases meaning the 1200 range limit is not necessary, especially given the cast time. To put S/x as a hit & run set, it needs damage to stay as that threat on the outskirts, it has it to be sure but with a shorter infiltration time it’s flexibility in doing that damage decreases. For example dodging 3 times takes a sizeable amount of time from your infiltration duration if infiltration is only 6 or 7 seconds.

For the Off-hands. Changing Black Powder puts that in a much more supportive position, For all 3 /P sets. Given typically (well excusing D/P) that /P sets do not stealth naturally, a defense against ranged assault is really necessary unless they put out ridiculous counter-damage. The one-tick shot isn’t a real deterrent at the same time, its simple enough to take advantage of.

Dancing dagger just isn’t reliable enough of a snare to start. If stripping the immobilization of Inf strike is considered in exchange for that skill doing more damage, the distinction is that S/D excels at sticking at targets to targets relative to S/P because of that /D choice as well as defensively due to FS and CnD. S/P of course in exchange would be potent at disabling opponents (ground target Black powder, the lovely head shot, and some PW stun) and shredding them if it does get its hands on them (PW).

I think that is really emphasizing weapon set identity while playing to the class profession identity that was given last year if they still are valid for discussion. S/x does heavy damage when it pops in (inf strike hitting harder + normal rotations), but it’s not in for long or its forced to stay.

Finally, you guys did some great stuff with traits but…what about potent poison? Seriously? Sharp, lettuce be cereal who runs Potent poison in general? I assume the PW change gets 2-3 hits. If the slashes start .25s faster then at least one slash should connect but I dont think the gap is .25s so maybe its two slashes? Imo again the identity of a weapon set, HB hits really hard but wants set up and there are many things in the Warriors weapon sets themselves that set that up. All that really sets up PW is Surprise shot, Which at mimimum means you can do that once every 20s (due to weapon swap cooldowns). Decide for yourselves man should PW set itself up or should something else sit it up? If something else sets it up, is that something else in the thief kit or your allies? I presume with the new SoP if you take that you can also draw even, currently its about ~1s to get your slashes, it would now be ~.75, the stun is .5s, SoP can give you some additional duration. It may work out, I don’t want to be super critical on that because I am not pulling out a stop watch again, so I’ll just wait and see.

Why not revert Pistol Whip back to its old way before the stun changes? I have a strong feeling the .25 second after cast part isn’t going to make it worthwhile, especially considering it doesn’t even damage people who are moving in it’s current state. On top of that it costs 5 initiative, roots you, and only has a very brief duration of evasion. I beg that you give this a good hard look. Thank you.

I personally am not happy with the first few changes I’ve read. It seems we’re still sitting on the passive play chair rather throwing that chair out the window.

@Jonahtan

Please rethink the mace nerf or rething the weapon altogether.With this that might seem an unmeaningfull change you basicly nerf to the ground at least 2 mace builds that were already not overpowered in any way and were relying on fast counter and reactions instead of offense .

Mace has zero mobility and no cripple/immobilize either and all it’s damage attacks are really really slow at 130 range including skull crack if the patch goes live.

Im reffering to mace/sword sword/shield condi and mace/x longbow zerker.Why make already more builds unviable when your team keeps stating they want more and more builds to be used by players.I will just hate to go back to booring ss/lb condi shout build as the only decent one for spvp.

Mace/x Longbow will get double nerfed since bow gets hit too and was already brought down last patch.Please stop destroying variety and forcing us all into 1 power build and another condi build per class.

More passive procs, oh boy…
The skill…

The skill that goes into using that cleanse when you get 3+ conditions…
Intense…

The skill that goes into being immune to conditions when over 90% life…
The skill that goes into taking 50% less dmg when under 25% life…

klagsdlhsdagl;lsgkadasdg

What I’m going to do right now is read all the changes, take each one and give you guys feedback on what I personally think should have been done.

Warrior.

Hammer will take a nerf in damage, i think we have to accept it but whats about Rifle, Greatsword and Axes?

Rifle – damage is placed in 2 longcast skills olny, while volley can be fine as it is a channeling skill, kill shot takes definitely too long time to fire off. Its does lacking any real utility, and is completely outclassed by longbow in every format of the game. Ive actually posted some suggestion changes for it (like making bleed shot the same as marines shot just for example). I also think that placing crack shot in discipline line is a better idea.

Greatsword – some agree some disagree about reworking hundren blades and placing it into f1. But we all agree that arcing slide is useless, Any plans for the future? Also why rush dindt received leap from fiery gs yet? That swing animation is really buggy and keep missing, unlike the leap.

Axe – I think its save to say that aa is fine, eviscarate and maybe throw axe. But what about rest?

Sword – In case of condition builds its fine as it is. Howered in case of power builds offhand and flurry are terrible. Also bladetrail still without -20% to cd’s. Why?

Mace mainhand- I have mixed feeling about changes to skull crack. Mace on its own has 0 mobility, 0 cripple, and all skills are in melee range. Its is also a slow weapon. Also why counter blow dindt get love like riposte?

Longbow – future will show. But placement in traits is still under “?” In my opinion these traits should be merged and placed in arms. Actually its makes sense as longbow is a hybrid weapon so its benefit from both precision and condition damage

__
Yes, i really want to see answers..

As an elementalist, I am NOT happy with these changes. The direction you guys are trying to go with removing dependency on arcana is absolutely great, but by moving around some of the water and arcane traits my build is going to be completely destroyed. Allow me to explain:

On my ele, I run 0/20/0/20/30 build with S/D. For my water traits, I use both aquamancers alacrity and cleansing wave for my two trait choices. These are both currently adept traits. IF the changes happen…both would become master traits. Meaning I can no longer use both with my current build. I understand wanting to avoid power creep…and I agree cleaning wave may be too strong as an adept trait. But moving aquamancers alacrity to master also is a huge nerf as I always run both these traits in all my builds…pvp, wvw, and even pve. I don’t think having 20% reduced CD on water weapon skills is really that OP, is it? I doubt an ele who goes for the new fire/earth traits would even want aquamancers alacrity anyways because it is only really useful with some healing power.

Same situation with the arcana traits….I use both elemental attunement (as all eles need this trait) and renewing stamina (renewing stamina is an adept trait but I use it in my master slot). Apparently the plan is to move both of these adept traits to master. This, along with the water changes, is a BIG BIG nerf for me. Right now, they are both adept traits. I see no reason to move both to master….move either one or the other. I would say have renewing stamina be the master trait and elemental attunement be the adept….that way people can’t just get the quick vigor trait which is probably why the devs are proposing these changes anyways.

I was happy about some of the ele changes until I thought about it…my build is going to be completely ruined Fire and earth won’t be worth changing the build and playstyle that I love. Seriously…Please don’t fix what isn’t broken I realize you are worried about power creep….but what is going to happen is no one is going to trait for earth or fire. And I will have my favorite build nerfed.

nicknamenick.2437:

Pls explain the raw damage nerf for combustive shot..
First the buring:
Combustive shot
with 300 condition damage

Before:
4sec Level 1: 3x burning for 2sec = 2400 damage
6sec Level 2: 4x burning for 2sec = 3200 damage
8sec Level 3: 5x burning for 2sec = 4000 damage

After
3sec Level 1: 2x burning for 3sec = 2400 damage
6sec Level 2: 3x burning for 3sec = 3600 damage
9sec Level 3: 4x burning for 3sec = 4800 damage

So same or more condtion damage.. but it takes longer.. so that’s fair..
So that hardly a nerf.. only fools will stand a full 9 sec in the aoe :-)

But what I don’t get is Anet also reduced the raw damage of combustive shot..
By how many? pls tell me.. because reducing it slighty could be anything..

Also why only nerf warriors burning and not all classes burning ? All this based on some eles qq thread on warrior’s bow f1.

Over 3 sec instead of 2= 33% damage nerf.

looks promising , and ty for releasing it so we could give some feedback before patch day ( wasn’t that hard now was it )
Just keep a plan B ready , once the community gives there feedback after the patch is launched . So we dont have to wait months to tweak the changes a kitten

eerz and nice work

Tripp

Its a shame to see that Rangers aren’t getting more of their effective condition removal spread out so that Empathic Bond isn’t such a “necessary” option.

Is that intended? It seems like it really kills build versatility when almost every ranger build has to spec 30 into Wilderness in order to effectively deal with conditions.

LordByron.8369:

•Arcane V – Elemental Attunement. Moved to Master tier.
•Arcane VI – Renewing Stamina. Moved to Master tier.

Another nerf to D/D to the level of RTL 200% nerf.

GG if you want all players enjoyng D/D gameplay to quit at all cost you will be sure this time.

RTL was one of the most unfun nerf i ever seen in a game.
This is even worse…for PvE and WWW.

I hope you are happy of how much you destroyed those in the sake of your terrible PvP.

If this arrives in PvE i think i ll find the final reson to quit this great game ruined since day 1 patch after patch.

I already quit PvP…i quit WWW and now its time for pve.

I agree…both these traits should not be master. Renewing stamina should be the master trait with elemental attunement being the adept. Right now, both traits are adept so anyone putting in 10 points to arcana can have either one. Putting them both on master tier is not a good change at all in my opinion. It cripples too many builds that we have had for the entirety of the game…all of which have been nerfed every patch.

Larynx.2453:

Zanryu.3417:

Larynx.2453:

Zanryu.3417:

I’m curious to know why a Ranger 15 Trait is now better than a Warrior’s 25 trait.

Mighty Swap gives both the Ranger and their pet 3 stacks of Might upon the pet being activated. This can occur every 10 seconds.

Versatile Power gives the Warrior 1 stack of Might upon switching weapons. This can occur every 10 seconds, or 5 when using the minor trait Fast Hands.

Even with 15 points in Discipline the Ranger now has better access to Might AND it affects their pet as well. In what ways do you believe this to be a balanced trait?

Also, I’d like to point out that Thieves and Guardians get 10% damage while their Endurance is not full while Warriors only get 3%. Shouldn’t the Warrior trait be brought up to a similar level?

An ele grandmaster trait is worse than a warrior adept trait.

You can not compare traits across classes. It does not work.

The traits listed to similar things. The Ranger traits is far better and requires less point investment. The second example was unrelated to that, however it is something I’d like to see addressed.

I’ll indulge you though, let’s compare the minor traits in each of their respective lines of both classes.

Strength/Fire

Warrior Adept: Reckless Dodge Damage foes at the end of a dodge roll.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Burning Rage Deal more damage to burning foes.

Arms/Air

Warrior Adept: Precise Strikes Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Weak Spot Chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.

Defense/Earth

Warrior Adept: Thick Skin Gain extra armor while your health is above the threshold.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Enduring Damage Deal more damage when your endurance is full. (Note: This also grants 10% damage, as opposed to 3%.)

Tactics/Water

Warrior Adept: Determined Revival Gain extra toughness per level while reviving.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Bountiful Power Deal more damage for each boon on you.

Discipline/Arcana

Warrior Adept: Versatile Rage Gain adrenaline on weapon swap.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Arcane Precision Skills have a chance to apply a condition on critical hits.

So, you’re right. For all the wrong reasons. You can’t compare traits across different because there’s a substantial difference in their power and effects, which is how it should be. The only skill that’s possibly on the same level, not worse mind you, is Air 25 and Warrior 5 as they both apply conditions on crit.

If anything this supports the question of “Why is a Ranger Master trait superior to a Warrior Grandmaster trait?”

You can’t compare traits across classes because the context in which those traits are in is completely different. A warrior has almost double the base health of a guardian. A guardian has 300 more armor than an ele. A thief has more means of stealthing than a mesmer.

Classes are different, and different classes are balanced around their unique class mechanics.

You are right you shouldn’t compare classes.

Does it make sense for a class that has higher hp, more toughness, 5 second weapon to have more mobility than a class that has 3/5 its HP?

Does it make sense for a class to have a 20 second 1500 range skill while a class with less hp, less armor to have a 40 second CD on a very similar skill?

Does it even make sense for a elementalist in which each attunement cannot be self-sustainable to have 40 second cd on their weapon skills?

The point all those thing he listed should be the reverse. The elementalist should have more mobility and lower CD than the warrior, but they don’t.

I don’t understand why they keep nerfing the non meta builds.1st they nerfed my rampager/berserker stance build in one go with changes to both berserker’s stance and revamp of the sword.

Now they leave the hambow meta almost unchange while they completely kill the mace.But i like how no one is ever going to cry about it since only meta builds matter and not many use the others enough to make the devs care.No more zerker mace/bow for me because some guys exploited gs/mace and UF in soldier gear plus sigil of para.

ensoriki.5789:

Copypasta-ing
My thoughts are this, the sword is a hit & run/in & out weapon set at its base, it’s what connects S/D and S/P on a frequent level. Infiltrator’s strike is the Swords identity.
I feel atm, Thief would be better off molding the two Sword sets with that in mind. So I propose changes to Infiltrator’s strike

1. Keep that idea of a cast time on Shadow return, that can work.
2. Reduce the duration of Infiltration to 6 or 7 seconds.
3. Increase the power co-efficient of Infiltrator’s Strike, consider removing/reducing the immobilize (consider)
4. Revert the range 1200 range limitation on Shadow return.

With that in mind these two changes to the off hands
1. Increase the velocity of the Dancing dagger projectile so it’s a more reliable snare
2. Have Black Powder, as a ground-target, strengthening it as a support skill.
3. Increase the duration of Cloak and Daggers vulnerability.

Infiltration lasts long, it allows you ample time to commit to a fight while having an escape. Reducing it gives you time to fight, but you have to then decide if you’re going to use your initiative to pop out, or if you are going to stay in and lose the escape. With half the duration, that becomes more of a reality, with half the duration the distance you travel from the return point significantly decreases meaning the 1200 range limit is not necessary, especially given the cast time. To put S/x as a hit & run set, it needs damage to stay as that threat on the outskirts, it has it to be sure but with a shorter infiltration time it’s flexibility in doing that damage decreases. For example dodging 3 times takes a sizeable amount of time from your infiltration duration if infiltration is only 6 or 7 seconds.

For the Off-hands. Changing Black Powder puts that in a much more supportive position, For all 3 /P sets. Given typically (well excusing D/P) that /P sets do not stealth naturally, a defense against ranged assault is really necessary unless they put out ridiculous counter-damage. The one-tick shot isn’t a real deterrent at the same time, its simple enough to take advantage of.

Dancing dagger just isn’t reliable enough of a snare to start. If stripping the immobilization of Inf strike is considered in exchange for that skill doing more damage, the distinction is that S/D excels at sticking at targets to targets relative to S/P because of that /D choice as well as defensively due to FS and CnD. S/P of course in exchange would be potent at disabling opponents (ground target Black powder, the lovely head shot, and some PW stun) and shredding them if it does get its hands on them (PW).

I think that is really emphasizing weapon set identity while playing to the class profession identity that was given last year if they still are valid for discussion. S/x does heavy damage when it pops in (inf strike hitting harder + normal rotations), but it’s not in for long or its forced to stay.

Finally, you guys did some great stuff with traits but…what about potent poison? Seriously? Sharp, lettuce be cereal who runs Potent poison in general?

THAT kind of Inf strike nerf means that a thief will be insta shotted at the second stun.

Before you could teleport away from a necro fear, removing it ( since it is a condition and, unless Doom procced burning, it’s always first priority), now you won’t be able to di it, basically being dead meat for any half decent necro.

You can’t always predict a stun, you can’t evade war’s stuns since they have so many it’s ridicolous.

NO DECENT PLAYER EVER will ever take Hard to Catch since it’s random and procs when you really don’t need it, overall you can’t control it so it’s horrible ( just think at mesmer magic bullet bouncing and dazing you from nowhere and PUFF you wasted your 30 secs ICD teleport).

Add this to Mesmer’s daze buff and we are just focusing the game even more on an unfun CC meta where the thief has no place unless built for venom share ( which is already ridicolously strong) with the only difference that now we have no good set to play that build with ( sundering strikes buff is making me think to play it with P/P but i don’t really think it will work).

If other classes are not nerfed consistently ( especially condi classes and wars), the thief will have no place in tPvP ( both solo and team) on 10th december, mark my words.

Unless we play venom share: in that case we may find some spot in team queue.

MAYBE.

All those changes to the elementalist are nice but it doesn’t chance the fact that I have to go into water to have an more than 13k hp. It doesn’t chance the fact that, all the elementalist way of mitigating damage are on an extremely long CD (mist form, shield) or are not actually effective at their jobs (aura).

Doesn’t change the fact that a lot of the arcane weapons traits are simply filler traits, all of those traits should be one trait?

d/d still sucks and from the looks it, it nerf big time.

Changing to boon from 2% to 1%, also bad, it should be the same to reward players that go all the way to 30.

It doesn’t change the fact that our weapon/ ultilize CD are too long.

I didn’t include something because I wanted to see how it goes however might as well.
In a couple other settings a skill like Inf strike even with a cast time and well while it no longer stuns breaks it does still currently function under a stun.
Having the cast time is fine, they may have to down the line consider letting it function while stunned.
Tbh I do feel you are over exaggerating a tad however Big.

In real tea, I don’t think by itself a cast time on Sreturn = wrecked beyond belief. However I think just adding a cast time on it as both Sword sets currently are (excusing PW’s current issue), is problematic for how the sets are. Infiltrator’s Strike is the Swords identity.

silvermember.8941:

You are right you shouldn’t compare classes.

Does it make sense for a class that has higher hp, more toughness, 5 second weapon to have more mobility than a class that has 3/5 its HP?

Does it make sense for a class to have a 20 second 1500 range skill while a class with less hp, less armor to have a 40 second CD on a very similar skill?

Does it even make sense for a elementalist in which each attunement cannot be self-sustainable to have 40 second cd on their weapon skills?

The point all those thing he listed should be the reverse. The elementalist should have more mobility and lower CD than the warrior, but they don’t.

There are more variables in play than the ones which you listed. Lets use an example,

Elementalists have 20 weapon skills, yet a warrior only has 10. Why should elementalists have double the abilities of other classes?

This is why you can not take things into a void and compare them. There’s more variables than just the class itself as well. Consider why necros are taken less often than engineers or rangers nowadays. It’s certainly not a necro issue, they are incredibly strong. Consider why warriors are even taken at all. They are also incredibly strong, but like necros if the meta was shifted warriors would not be nearly as popular even with zero changes to the class itself.

Also, “Does it make sense for a class to have a 20 second 1500 range skill while a class with less hp, less armor to have a 40 second CD on a very similar skill?”

Is just false in the premise. Rush is a movement ability tied to the warrior’s speed, and thus it is 1200 range in combat and slowed by cripple and chill. RtL is an ability not tied to the elementalist’s speed, with a faster travel time, is not slowed by cripple and chill, and was 1550 range in combat. These are the reasons why RtL was nerfed as a disengage ability, while Swoop, Rush and similar skills were left unchanged.

ensoriki.5789:

I didn’t include something because I wanted to see how it goes however might as well.
In a couple other settings a skill like Inf strike even with a cast time and well while it no longer stuns breaks it does still currently function under a stun.
Having the cast time is fine, they may have to down the line consider letting it function while stunned.
Tbh I do feel you are over exaggerating a tad however Big.

it will surely not work while stunned.

It’s just like eles: i usually swap to air and do my burst combo + blind as soon as i get stunned by a war, but you can’t cast Phoenix while stunned ( 1/4 sec cast time).

Shadow return worked just like all instant skills, on 10th december it will no longer be instant, with all the stuff that goes with it.

Again, i wanted Inf strike to get nerfed and posted tons of threads giving ideas about HOW TO PROPERLY nerf it.

If this change goes live, all Sword sets will be killed, unless they strongly nerf condi burst and warrior stuns.

D/P trickery is not strong enough due to how overwhelming conditions still are ( engies and necros above all, spirit rangers following) and due to how prominent those classes are.

The thief is doomed, i’m not exaggerating.

repost for blank page bug

ensoriki.5789:

I didn’t include something because I wanted to see how it goes however might as well.
In a couple other settings a skill like Inf strike even with a cast time and well while it no longer stuns breaks it does still currently function under a stun.
Having the cast time is fine, they may have to down the line consider letting it function while stunned.
Tbh I do feel you are over exaggerating a tad however Big.

it will surely not work while stunned.

It’s just like eles: i usually swap to air and do my burst combo + blind as soon as i get stunned by a war, but you can’t cast Phoenix while stunned ( 1/4 sec cast time).

Shadow return worked just like all instant skills, on 10th december it will no longer be instant, with all the stuff that goes with it.

Again, i wanted Inf strike to get nerfed and posted tons of threads giving ideas about HOW TO PROPERLY nerf it.

If this change goes live, all Sword sets will be killed, unless they strongly nerf condi burst and warrior stuns.

D/P trickery is not strong enough due to how overwhelming conditions still are ( engies and necros above all, spirit rangers following) and due to how prominent those classes are.

The thief is doomed, i’m not exaggerating.