Guild Wars 2

Hello ArenaNet Team,
this is not a complaint but more of a constructive criticism of your competitive PvP mode ( sPvP ) and how your marketing plan affects it.

I just came back to the game after seeing stream of competitive play on GW2, playing esport games most of the time ( Moba especially ) i wanted to give it a shot since i heard mostly if not only good about the competitive PvP gameplay, and see for myself.

It has been a few days now and i really enjoy the gameplay, a bit clusterkitten with the AoE but it is really fun and really make me want to play it in a more competitive spirit.
And here is why i posted this message, i think i m the typical customer you were aiming for with your F2P model and the promote of esport competition like you did.

But
I found it a bit sad that any player who want to do sPvP as you would play a moba game for example or any competitive game whatsoever, that people has to buy a 45e xpac for 3 spells to be on an even footing.
Knowing that if they just plan to play sPvP they wont really use/enjoy 95% of what the xpac content add to the game.

So here is my main concern, you promote esport to a mmo game ( which is pretty uncommon, so do it right and it might do wonders ) to bring more player to test the game and enjoy sPvP which the idea was to create competitive PvP directly from the start of the game ( If i m not mistaken ).
But it is not unless you pay 45e. This is a big disappointment ( i don’t say you cant have fun because i do, but you definitively can’t be competitive ).

So instead of making this content ( 3 spells and 3 passives for each classes in sPvP only ) available via IG time ( grinding ) or right from the start , and promote real esport potential game ( via esport competition which costed you money i guess ) you loose a good part of the player base you were aiming for. Which eventually was potentially buying your xpac not because they want to do sPvP but because they would have been welling to support a great competitive mmo game and enjoy the rest of it ( and do not forget about skins, moba games make hudge deal of money just with skin features ).

I really feel that you created frustration instead of enjoyment.
And you probably lost a lot of money from potential esport players by doing so.

From my point of view you did a big marketing mistake, but you can still correct it and make this game more esport oriented as you seem to want to, while still earning a bunch of money in the process.

I ll probably play the game a bit more for the fun since i still enjoy getting rekt due to my rock bottom skill at the moment but it wont probably last long since i m not welling to invest that amount of money to potentially play a game at a competitive level.

I hope you will hear my opinion and improve your game in this way, and who knows maybe one day i ll come back with friends and invest time and money in the game.

I wish you good luck for the future, you are still one of the most played mmo and you should keep it that way ( or increase it even more :p )

If anyone want to support this, feel free to participate and give your opinion aswell

I think they should separate F2P and B2P players into their own pvp sections, this would probably cause an issue for friends who want to play together but is alot better than the steam rolling hoT owners can do and how teams in the tournaments could have had easy runs to start with due to them constantly being pitted against non HoT owners or been on a team with more HoT owners than the other side.

I gave up on the leagues and stuff after about half way through league 2 and almost the start of league 3 because of so many poorly balanced games.

Thanks for the input, Kroma!

+1

I would definitely love to play Rifle Engi or S/D thief again without having to worry about the amount of reflects or wondering why my damage is too low.

If Anet wants f2p players to buy the xpac, they need to have fun.

That won’t happen if they are being destroyed because they are using a core build.

I have hot but i arrived to diamond using only an f2p build ( condition engineer ). Hot builds are stronger and in my opinion easier to play but if you play at casual level f2p builds can be viable too. Hot specs are really strong , but as others already stated are also terribly boring and there is really no build variety… every profession use the same buidl with near to none modification …

Kroma.3145:

since i heard mostly if not only good about the competitive PvP gameplay, and see for myself.

may i ask where this info came from?

I don’t see anything wrong with them unlocking traits and skills for spvp only. F2p is already pretty limited. Most chat features are turned off and you only get 2 characters.

Faux Play.6104:

I don’t see anything wrong with them unlocking traits and skills for spvp only. F2p is already pretty limited. Most chat features are turned off and you only get 2 characters.

Agreed.

I dont see a problem to rekt ppl with, a old war build. And new specs arent OP u just need to find a way to deal with them.

+1. Nice post Kroma I agree with you 100%. Your point about the power gap between “f2p” and HoT players being detrimental to building a competitive esports scene is spot on.

It also grieves me that I actually bought the game back when it launched a few years ago (basically just for the pvp), but even though I paid for the original game and have purchased from the cash shop I am in the same boat as a f2p player now in terms of spvp.

Yasha.5963:

+1. Nice post Kroma I agree with you 100%. Your point about the power gap between “f2p” and HoT players being detrimental to building a competitive esports scene is spot on.

It also grieves me that I actually bought the game back when it launched a few years ago (basically just for the pvp), but even though I paid for the original game and have purchased from the cash shop I am in the same boat as a f2p player now in terms of spvp.

LoL 100$ the biggest price / 24 months = 4$ its the cheapest subscribe XD and its 4$ if u bought the top tier gamepack) so i dont see any trubles with paying another 50-100$ for a new content bcs many of us understand that Anet to wants to eat) and there is no huge gap between HoT and nonHoT builds its just matter of skill nothing more.

It has good points, you need to consider a veteran player who uses a f2p build is not the same like a new player.

Anet should add for example the chance to unlock only 1 Hot spvp spec by Gem store (for example for 400 gems = 5 € ) .

This could help a lot to attract new f2p players, keep them in the game (very important step) and sell more expansions in the future.

@serj
I don’t think you understand what the topic is about. We are talking about the inability for f2p players to be competitive in spvp (which is supposed to be all about competitive team based pvp). The point here isn’t that you can’t ‘do well’ on a core build, or that you can’t beat a HoT build on a core build. The point is that the elite specialisation are a straight upgrades of the base classes, and that there is indeed a gap between Hot and nonHot build. Meaning that the HoT owners have an advantage over f2p players, thus ruining the competitive aspect of spvp.

Back on topic, i agree on most of what op said and it’s definitely a good thing for spvp to let f2p players have access to elite spec.

serj.8214:

Yasha.5963:

+1. Nice post Kroma I agree with you 100%. Your point about the power gap between “f2p” and HoT players being detrimental to building a competitive esports scene is spot on.

It also grieves me that I actually bought the game back when it launched a few years ago (basically just for the pvp), but even though I paid for the original game and have purchased from the cash shop I am in the same boat as a f2p player now in terms of spvp.

LoL 100$ the biggest price / 24 months = 4$ its the cheapest subscribe XD and its 4$ if u bought the top tier gamepack) so i dont see any trubles with paying another 50-100$ for a new content bcs many of us understand that Anet to wants to eat) and there is no huge gap between HoT and nonHoT builds its just matter of skill nothing more.

The main issue the OP brings up is that having to pay for power is limiting GW2’s spvp potential as an esport.

I think he/she is saying that by making the game f2p they opened the possibility of GW2’s spvp being able to compete with other f2p esport games like SMITE/LOL etc, but that charging ($80 in my currency) to play the more powerful specs defeats the purpose of f2p in terms of building spvp into a more popular esport.

Faux Play.6104:

I don’t see anything wrong with them unlocking traits and skills for spvp only. F2p is already pretty limited. Most chat features are turned off and you only get 2 characters.

This.

The problem is that hardcore pvp players have more than 1 or 2 account and pay for the HOT Buy to Win pack to get on equal footing.

SPVP had been made SKILL based (no grind involved), choices should be EQUAL for All, including the expac SPEC.

Opening the Elite spec for free in SPVP, would be like a “DEMO” for F2P PvX players that want to try before they buy. Win-win.

Kroma.3145:

Hello ArenaNet Team,
this is not a complaint but more of a constructive criticism of your competitive PvP mode ( sPvP ) and how your marketing plan affects it.

I just came back to the game after seeing stream of competitive play on GW2, playing esport games most of the time ( Moba especially ) i wanted to give it a shot since i heard mostly if not only good about the competitive PvP gameplay, and see for myself.

It has been a few days now and i really enjoy the gameplay, a bit clusterkitten with the AoE but it is really fun and really make me want to play it in a more competitive spirit.
And here is why i posted this message, i think i m the typical customer you were aiming for with your F2P model and the promote of esport competition like you did.

But
I found it a bit sad that any player who want to do sPvP as you would play a moba game for example or any competitive game whatsoever, that people has to buy a 45e xpac for 3 spells to be on an even footing.
Knowing that if they just plan to play sPvP they wont really use/enjoy 95% of what the xpac content add to the game.

So here is my main concern, you promote esport to a mmo game ( which is pretty uncommon, so do it right and it might do wonders ) to bring more player to test the game and enjoy sPvP which the idea was to create competitive PvP directly from the start of the game ( If i m not mistaken ).
But it is not unless you pay 45e. This is a big disappointment ( i don’t say you cant have fun because i do, but you definitively can’t be competitive ).

So instead of making this content ( 3 spells and 3 passives for each classes in sPvP only ) available via IG time ( grinding ) or right from the start , and promote real esport potential game ( via esport competition which costed you money i guess ) you loose a good part of the player base you were aiming for. Which eventually was potentially buying your xpac not because they want to do sPvP but because they would have been welling to support a great competitive mmo game and enjoy the rest of it ( and do not forget about skins, moba games make hudge deal of money just with skin features ).

I really feel that you created frustration instead of enjoyment.
And you probably lost a lot of money from potential esport players by doing so.

From my point of view you did a big marketing mistake, but you can still correct it and make this game more esport oriented as you seem to want to, while still earning a bunch of money in the process.

I ll probably play the game a bit more for the fun since i still enjoy getting rekt due to my rock bottom skill at the moment but it wont probably last long since i m not welling to invest that amount of money to potentially play a game at a competitive level.

I hope you will hear my opinion and improve your game in this way, and who knows maybe one day i ll come back with friends and invest time and money in the game.

I wish you good luck for the future, you are still one of the most played mmo and you should keep it that way ( or increase it even more :p )

If anyone want to support this, feel free to participate and give your opinion aswell

I am with you.

Many F2P said it was P2W and the mmorpger said it was B2 play.

I don’t agree with that. If we want to compete on the MOBA level, we need to offer MOBA like experiences.

A small download (only for spvp for god sake), a free download and access and a possibility to grind game currency (gold for gem) to buy Hero (or elite spec) with a free weekly rotations.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/sPvP-needs-its-own-business-model/first

200 millions moba players versus the 20 millions mmorpg players, we have a possibility to raise sPVP way above PVE “scale” in number of players.

Grinding for elite spec is also a good alternative since player will have to commit time to farm for it, and thus will be more addicted to the game with a sense of progression and commitment.
People need to have choice either spent time to unlock it, or buy it from the shop.
If you force them to buy it from the shop only, it is not a good business model.

Still i think it is a bit of work from development team, it will probably be easier to make the elite spec F2P and more inline with the sPvP being a competitive game from the start ( more impact-full in a marketing pov as well ). The inflow cash from f2p player should come from shop features like skins etc …

And indeed my post is not about core spec not being able to beat elite spec, is about competitive environment and having the choice to adapt your gameplay and your build like everyone else.

PS: do not hesitate to post here to show that you agree we need change to sPvP, if it matters to you we need to make some noise to be heard :p

They could do it like mobas and have weekly free heroes.

Rotate which class gets all their elites unlocked for that week.

You dont need HoT to get rankcompetitive. Many ppl came without HoT spec to legendary. Only thing you probably wont be able to do is win some esports competitions (cant really say, didnt see anyone seriously try it).

Spoichiche.1290:

@serj
I don’t think you understand what the topic is about. We are talking about the inability for f2p players to be competitive in spvp (which is supposed to be all about competitive team based pvp). The point here isn’t that you can’t ‘do well’ on a core build, or that you can’t beat a HoT build on a core build. The point is that the elite specialisation are a straight upgrades of the base classes, and that there is indeed a gap between Hot and nonHot build. Meaning that the HoT owners have an advantage over f2p players, thus ruining the competitive aspect of spvp.

Back on topic, i agree on most of what op said and it’s definitely a good thing for spvp to let f2p players have access to elite spec.

I understand that topic is about QQ about why ppl should pay. First of all Anet model of Buy To Play is the greatest and it aproved it, second sPVP is just a little part of content and i dont see any reason why F2P acc = B2P acc bcs there should be some deference like in every mmo where ppl paying. Remember times when ppl even could play GW2 without buying it and now when ppl can play at F2P acc with some restrictions they want more without paying anything. GW2 isnt a MOBA game and Anet too need to pay solaries\game servers\rent etc. So i dont think that F2P acc should even QQ about smtng

It is not about QQ, is about making F2P player stay on the game and eventually spend money on it.
Right now they don’t even win money because players do not stay.

The actual business model is biased, making people pay to have access to sPvP hot content only for a little amount is even better than the actual situation.

You said that “Anet model of buy to play is the greatest and it aproved it”, so why did they make the game F2P in the first place ? Because no enough players are buying the game and they need to make more money from the shop with new players.

So all i m saying in this post is to help in this direction while keeping HOT on a buy to play model. But Anet need to attract more people ( and make them stay as long as possible ) to the game either way so making a competitive pvp mode for F2P will always be better than the actual situation money-wise.

If you don’t understand that, then i can only invite you to make some research on how F2P business model works and why it make so much more money than anything else right now.

PS : I m not entirely on a F2P account since i bought the original game when it was released. So i think i deserve the right to give my feedback on what the game has become without having someone saying i m whining about paying something.

Kroma.3145:

It is not about QQ, is about making F2P player stay on the game and eventually spend money on it.
Right now they don’t even win money because players do not stay.

The actual business model is biased, making people pay to have access to sPvP hot content only for a little amount is even better than the actual situation.

You said that “Anet model of buy to play is the greatest and it aproved it”, so why did they make the game F2P in the first place ? Because no enough players are buying the game and they need to make more money from the shop with new players.

So all i m saying in this post is to help in this direction while keeping HOT on a buy to play model. But Anet need to attract more people ( and make them stay as long as possible ) to the game either way so making a competitive pvp mode for F2P will always be better than the actual situation money-wise.

If you don’t understand that, then i can only invite you to make some research on how F2P business model works and why it make so much more money than anything else right now.

PS : I m not entirely on a F2P account since i bought the original game when it was released. So i think i deserve the right to give my feedback on what the game has become without having someone saying i m whining about paying something.

They made F2P acc only bcs after those years from release they made an addon that ppl need to buy and even so ppl who got base version like you have some advantage over F2P accs. Do u really think dat ppl will pay just for elite specs? After such moves from Anet ppl will QQ about PVE and others things. I dont think that Anet has probs with money because many ppl bought HoT and even before HoT Anet survived and evolved just on B2P model) and every item in shop could be bought with gold.

I’ll just leave this here…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/sPvP-needs-its-own-business-model

serj.8214:

Spoichiche.1290:

@serj
I don’t think you understand what the topic is about. We are talking about the inability for f2p players to be competitive in spvp (which is supposed to be all about competitive team based pvp). The point here isn’t that you can’t ‘do well’ on a core build, or that you can’t beat a HoT build on a core build. The point is that the elite specialisation are a straight upgrades of the base classes, and that there is indeed a gap between Hot and nonHot build. Meaning that the HoT owners have an advantage over f2p players, thus ruining the competitive aspect of spvp.

Back on topic, i agree on most of what op said and it’s definitely a good thing for spvp to let f2p players have access to elite spec.

I understand that topic is about QQ about why ppl should pay. First of all Anet model of Buy To Play is the greatest and it aproved it, second sPVP is just a little part of content and i dont see any reason why F2P acc = B2P acc bcs there should be some deference like in every mmo where ppl paying. Remember times when ppl even could play GW2 without buying it and now when ppl can play at F2P acc with some restrictions they want more without paying anything. GW2 isnt a MOBA game and Anet too need to pay solaries\game servers\rent etc. So i dont think that F2P acc should even QQ about smtng

So bad thinking.

You basically say you don’t want to open your game to a market of 180 millions players.

You prefer to keep your 20 millions possibilities and keep it that way.

Really bad business manager think like you.

Jourdelune.7456:

serj.8214:

Spoichiche.1290:

@serj
I don’t think you understand what the topic is about. We are talking about the inability for f2p players to be competitive in spvp (which is supposed to be all about competitive team based pvp). The point here isn’t that you can’t ‘do well’ on a core build, or that you can’t beat a HoT build on a core build. The point is that the elite specialisation are a straight upgrades of the base classes, and that there is indeed a gap between Hot and nonHot build. Meaning that the HoT owners have an advantage over f2p players, thus ruining the competitive aspect of spvp.

Back on topic, i agree on most of what op said and it’s definitely a good thing for spvp to let f2p players have access to elite spec.

I understand that topic is about QQ about why ppl should pay. First of all Anet model of Buy To Play is the greatest and it aproved it, second sPVP is just a little part of content and i dont see any reason why F2P acc = B2P acc bcs there should be some deference like in every mmo where ppl paying. Remember times when ppl even could play GW2 without buying it and now when ppl can play at F2P acc with some restrictions they want more without paying anything. GW2 isnt a MOBA game and Anet too need to pay solaries\game servers\rent etc. So i dont think that F2P acc should even QQ about smtng

So bad thinking.

You basically say you don’t want to open your game to a market of 180 millions players.

You prefer to keep your 20 millions possibilities and keep it that way.

Really bad business manager think like you.

Ok lets try to make from an car repair station, a fashion salon or even give some part of ur buisness for free OK. You are the greatest manager )