don’t get the wings.
Not on the table.
If you want the item that badly, you wouldn’t be here whining about it.
And if it really is only conflicting opinions, you haven’t given anyone else a reason to agree.
Nor do I have to. It’s all about pleasing the largest number of players, not convincing anyone in this thread of anything they don’t want to believe.
I think this thread has shown quite well how doing this would make a lot of people mad…
I think you’re greatly underestimating it.
See how this doesn’t get anywhere?Yes, we present conflicting opinions and this seems to bother you for. . . reasons.
Just presenting conflicting opinions doesn’t get anywhere. I can say we should worship invisible elephants, and you can say we should worship flying ponies, and we can both say that all day, and we wouldn’t get anywhere.
Because then no one would ever wear it if they cared what their character looked like.
I’m not saying they should give out ugly wardobe pieces, I’m saying that they should tie “prestige” to wardrobe at all. It should be titles, nametag pips, carryable bundles, things that those so inclined could “show off” so that those around them could, theoretically “be impressed,” but would not detract from the wardrobe options available.
Then why not make customization largely titles, anmetag pips, carryable bundles, and that kind of stuff? All the same arguments can be applied.
And I’m saying that that would undermine half the point of the wings as a reward specific to pvpers, who frankly haven’t had any good high-end rewards like this.
And I’m saying that is a plus, not the minus you seem to make it out to be. The reward should not be a reward specific to PvPers,
The only reason you’ve given is so you can have it too. You aren’t saying that it’s a plus, you’re asserting it, and ignoring the pvpers that haven’t had any good rewards, especially ones that actually mean something with regards to pvp.
Speak for yourself, if the only counter you can make is to complain about my choice of words. That said, take it away, Ohoni:
I was responding to a flip, borderline trolling strawman with a flip remark. I believe I’ve made it abundantly clear that I expect to have to work to earn them in some way, and do not personally advocate for “give them to us for nothing” as an ideal solution, although “give them to us for nothing” would at least be better than the current situation.
But you also don’t want to detract from wardrobe options. And I assume, since the same logic works for it, you don’t want to detract from dye options, title options, nametag pip options, carryable bundle options…
No, I’m saying it’s a meaningless, non-sensical question. How can anything in a game have anything inherent?
There are plenty of rewards in this game with inherent association to them. All dungeon armors are specifically themed to their native dungeon, and yet you can win them in PvP via reward tracks. If you look at a Twilight Arbor armor, you go “oh, that looks Twilight Arboreal.” Likewise, the three Magus Falls armor sets, Bladed, Auris, and Leyline, are all thematically linked to their native zones, and yet also available via PvP. Fractal gearing is also thematically associated to the Fractals, bearing similar floaty distortions. Yet there is absolutely nothing about the Ascension wings that are in any way recognizable as being PvP-related in any form.
Yes, but how is that inherent in the armor? Or do you just not understand the meaning of inherent?
If they had announced them as being on the gemstore in some $20 bundle, people wouldn’t have gone “those should totally be in PvP instead,” they would have just gone “oh, those are not terribly dissimilar to the other recent gem store offerings, and in fact less thematically tied to any actual content of any variety than the recent River of Souls wings.”
Because asking what makes that item ‘inherently’ gem store is a meaningless question.
It’s like asking what’s inherently Elementalist about the Arcane trait line, then demanding that all professions get access to Arcane on the basis of that. The whole discussion about ‘inherent this,’ ‘inherent that,’ is a sideshow meant to bog the discussion down to this.
And that can be done. Any time they take a tool from one class and give it to another, they have to justify its role.
The only justification you have made is that you want it.
A lot of people were upset about the Dragon Hunter fitting poorly into the Guardian’s theme, or Berserker being a bit too “magical” for a Warrior. There are reasonable arguments to be made on all sides. If they gave Warriors a Scepter as their next weapon, they would have to come up with a good reason why to the players.
And that was their subjective opinion. How much sense would it make to ask those people, "What about traps/longbow is inherently not Guardian?’ It’s just a pointless, meaningless question.
The whole discussion about ‘inherent this,’ ‘inherent that,’ is a sideshow meant to bog the discussion down to this.
Well, it wouldn’t even be necessary if so many people’s comeback wasn’t “but they’re PvP wings, they MUST AND CAN ONLY BE earned through PvP!”
No, the argument is that pvp players have generally lacked good endgame rewards specifically for pvp, and Anet added these pvp wings to cater to the people that want that. Not that I expect you to be able to respond to what people want without strawmanning it.
In this thread (or well; OP’s posts): “It’s silly of you to care about items in a game! There’s more to life than stuff in a game! But I really really really do want that item, and I do not want to play the content that it’s a reward for! I really care a lot about that item in a game!”
Hmm, I don’t believe that accurately reflects my position.
You’re right, it’s not. A better one would be: “Someone else can get a reward for doing something that I don’t want to do? GIMME GIMME GIMME! I need to get it!”
I don’t object to caring about the items themselves, clearly my position rests on that point. What I do find a bit ridiculous is caring about the “prestige” of owning a particular item.
You just object to caring about them for particular reasons because they aren’t your reasons for caring, and therefore they’re illegitimate.
Caring about the item is about you, it’s between you and the game. Caring about prestige is about other people, it’s somehow believing that other people will be impressed with you, based on the items you have, which is a bit sad if you really think about it.
First, who are you to dismiss why someone wants an item? Second, you may call it ‘a bit sad;’ I call it normal human behavior. But why is it a bit sad? Because you said so.
It’s like if an athlete at the olympics would go “I want the olympic gold-medal for swimming, but I hate swimming; I want to get the swimming-medal for competing and winning in table tennis (which I happen to be competing in)! And of course in addition to the medal for table-tennis!”
You want to see an Olympic gold medal for swimming? http://betheredothat.hylands.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/london-olympics-day-4-men-swimming.jpg
You want to see an Olympic gold medal for running (couldn’t find one for table tennis)?
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02308/olympic-mo-medals_2308708b.jpgNotice the difference? There is none. It’s the same medal, but there are hundreds of different ways to earn it, some slightly more difficult than others, but all representative of a lot of skill and effort. Similarly, if they want to label these the “PvP Wings,” and the only way to earn that specific one is through PvP, but then they have visually identical wings that can be earned via other means, then sure, that’d be fine too.
Except that you entirely missed the point.
’ve read your posts, OP but haven’t seen you suggest a mechanism to win at PvP without doing PvP. So, here you go Ohoni.
Karma into PvP pips!
Yes, win at PvE by completing events and turn that karma into PvP pips. (Pips available at a merchant selling pips in a PvP lobby near you). Just play PvE to earn enough karma to get those wings without ever setting foot in PvP.
It’s a win win solution. ^^
I’d take that if it were the only option, I have a ton of karma to blow, but honestly that doesn’t seem like an ideal solution because it would devalue the league and pip system and all that stuff that seems to actually matter to PvPers.
But this doesn’t matter to PvPers? At least try to hide your double standard.
Why are people bothering to even reply to this again?
‘Cause it’s funny.
Precisely. If I didn’t enjoy dismantling these kinds of bad arguments, I would not have the patience for this.
That’s the whole reason, it’s a PvP exclusive item in the first place: People are tired of grinding their kitten off to get something, a PvE player basically gets handed out for free.
Funny, because PvEers feel the same is true of PvPers, getting all sorts of rewards like dungeon gear and map-bonus gear with relatively little effort. Grass is always greener, I suppose.
Funny, because I’ve not heard any PvEers complaining about that. Anywhere.
There is a lot of content that’s locked behind certain types of activities not everyone enjoys. there is also a lot of content that’s exclusive to exactly one type of activity, yet nobody bats an eyebrow that they need to die of boredom while doing fractals in order to finally get their hands on ad infinitum.
You cite this as if this surrender to mediocrity and boredom is somehow virtuous. “They gave up, good for them!” If you are bored, if you are not enjoying your playing experience, that does not benefit anyone. You should not be bored, if you are bored then someone did something wrong.
Or, if you are bored you made a bad choice of what you’re doing. Maybe, maybe, your problems are your choices, not systemic Anet choices.
At the very least, don’t fight against other people willing to do what you’re too lazy to do yourself.
Absolutely hilarious, considering what you’ve spent so much time arguing against.
