Guild Wars 2

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi there,

First, here’s the a recent post on the topic:

Gaile Gray.6029:

With the start of Season 4, we’ll be returning to Season 1’s style of matchmaking which focuses on creating the most balanced teams from the players queueing within your pip range. This change may widen the skill range of players in each division, but we feel that increased match quality is worth the trade-off of reduced prestige for this season. During Season 2 and 3 we added two league features that greatly impacted your ability to climb: start-of-season division placement based on previous season performance and win/lose streak pips, and both of these features will remain enabled for Season 4.

Season 4 matchmaking is already using MMR to create the most balanced teams possible. Teams are no longer “stacked” as they were in Season 2 and 3.

The problem (that we’re solving for S5) is that we’re currently searching for players close to your division to match you against. This means that the pool of players that we can pull from to create a match is much smaller than if we were using the entire pool of players. A player may have a high-enough MMR to put them in the top 100, but if they’re in Sapphire they’re only going to get matched with players that are in or around Sapphire. Season 5 will use the entire pool of players for creating matches – this should help the system create more balanced matches and improve queue times.

As for the “forced 50/50”, there’s nothing on the backend that forces a certain win-rate. This is a byproduct of your MMR settling.

Do you not see the obvious flaw of having a league system stacked on top of MMR, isn’t the point to allow skilled players to rise in the leagues and lower tier players to fall in the leagues? and not to punish players who have been playing for awhile and doom them to 50/50 MMR hell?

Yasi.9065:

I played necro since beta, so I know exactly how it feels being forced to re-roll due to bad balancing.

Nevertheless, I posted it several times already… I prefer a team with 4 good thieves to a team with perfect comp but bad players any day. And I can tell you… that team with good players will always win, no matter the teamcomp.

Because teamcomp isnt as important as people tend to think. Skill is way more important. You can compensate a lot with player-skill.

The idea behind using the MMR is that players are supposed to be of roughly even skill. If that’s the case (a big if, I know), then team comp is huge. Class stacking is always problematic — some classes just play well with others (IE Eles and Druids, Guardians and Necros, Mesmers and Engineers, Wars and Revs), and others do not (IE Thieves and Warriors, or Thieves and Revs).

Even if you account for build diversity, the design philosophy behind certain classes means they work well with certain other classes, and work poorly with others. Thieves suffer the most because their design philosophy is bad for even team-fights, which are the vast majority of fights in conquest mode (another reason to add more variety to pvp modes).

So you have 3 thieves on your team? Well, then you probably wont win by trying to hold 2 points the entire match. Instead you will have to go for kills, beasts, decaps/caps, always disengaging and keeping the enemy team running.

Problem with decap/cap is overall you get less points per cap, and it takes longer to get the points you need to win. Holding onto points results in a faster, more decisive win. Constantly trading points tends to result in matches that are not blowouts, which is why we see more blowouts nowadays since tanks are the meta.

I am definitely in favor of reducing the overall tank meta, personally. Makes for more interesting matches, and more diverse builds.

Azukas.1426:

Cynz.9437:

Josh Davis.6015:

Cynz.9437:

Oh Grouch, can you guys help us with those with coming changes while you are at it? They just pile up and pile up and pile up

glory shards go for nothing

can’t sell tomes and with key changes tomes pile up faster than i can use them

Save till next season to buy the stuff for season 5.

I’d save them… He used scrooge mcduck for his picture, scrooge is very rich.

(great pic btw)

I started a new alt account just to see what it would be like for a new soloq pvp player. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwsbsWZYg66jVng2Xy1ZMG9fX00

Speaking of 50/50 hell.. At the moment I’m going on 1 week being stuck in the same division, playing with & against terrible team comps, and every single game there are at least 1-2 people on my team that need carried or don’t know what they’re doing at all. We’re talking about people that run straight for beasts at start of a game, thieves that challenge DH and get insta wiped by traps, necros that run power builds, and people who don’t know what stillness & tranquility are.

Is “byproduct of your MMR settling” another way of saying “hey let’s give you crappy teammates and bad comps so you’ll struggle and get stuck until you hit a lucky win streak, that may or may not come”?

If Anet can’t figure out why this game mode isn’t growing, well how do you expect people to have fun & keep playing if they can’t progress & advance? No matter how much weight I’m pulling, how well I’m rotating, how many caps I’ve helped secure. Players who are doing what they’re supposed to do and play well enough to advance are having a very difficult time advancing. The system frustrates you enough so you eventually just stop playing.

I have my wings on my main acct, so I’m doing this for fun this season. I can tell you I’m not having fun at all. Just imagine how frustrating it would be for new pvp players, especially ones that play well enough and should progress forward but can’t.

A 50/50 split attempt is the only way to evaluate player contribution with matching that provides close matches. With other ratios, the MMR system will diverge and ranking will be invalid. Without MMR, the matching is random and match quality will be as poor as unranked. In order for ranking to be valid, rank has to represent the ability to contribute. No season as of yet has been able to do this. 8 year old mouse clickers have made their way to legendary.

If we base the matching pools on hidden MMR divisions instead of pip divisions, we should end up with closer matches. However the problem still remains that there is no valid ranking to display prestige. Until such a thing exist, there is no actual “ranking”. If such a thing won’t exist, it should be the bases for unranked gameplay and not be labeled as ranked because there’s simply no ranking involved. We need a ranking system.

A players success and rank should not be measured by wins. In fact, with a 50/50 split, sPvP as a whole should end all emphasis on tracking wins and losses. The stat itself has no meaning in a 50/50 system. Win ratios and win streaks mean nothing unless a system’s matching is truly random by nature.

Instead, success should be measured by MMR in a 50/50 system. A good representation is a pip scale, but there can’t be safety barriers, rebounds, winstreaks, or anything like its current mechanics. The pip would have to loosely or directly represent the the player’s MMR.

sephiroth.4217:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi there,

First, here’s the a recent post on the topic:

Gaile Gray.6029:

With the start of Season 4, we’ll be returning to Season 1’s style of matchmaking which focuses on creating the most balanced teams from the players queueing within your pip range. This change may widen the skill range of players in each division, but we feel that increased match quality is worth the trade-off of reduced prestige for this season. During Season 2 and 3 we added two league features that greatly impacted your ability to climb: start-of-season division placement based on previous season performance and win/lose streak pips, and both of these features will remain enabled for Season 4.

Season 4 matchmaking is already using MMR to create the most balanced teams possible. Teams are no longer “stacked” as they were in Season 2 and 3.

The problem (that we’re solving for S5) is that we’re currently searching for players close to your division to match you against. This means that the pool of players that we can pull from to create a match is much smaller than if we were using the entire pool of players. A player may have a high-enough MMR to put them in the top 100, but if they’re in Sapphire they’re only going to get matched with players that are in or around Sapphire. Season 5 will use the entire pool of players for creating matches – this should help the system create more balanced matches and improve queue times.

As for the “forced 50/50”, there’s nothing on the backend that forces a certain win-rate. This is a byproduct of your MMR settling.

I don’t believe this byproduct….

I win a few games with team mates who know what they are doing, they have a minimum of 12k AP each…. A few wins later I’m on a team that doesn’t even have a total of 6k AP…..

The system forces losses so everyone can have medal and it’s kittening bullkitten.

Isnt thats normal? Pvp players got less ap since they dont do pve achievements? Many pvp players got more ‘pvp games played’ than ap.

Its lke 6k ap player could have 6k games played, while 12k ap played only 120 games.

Fay.2357:

A good system rewards winning by matching the winning player with other higher skilled players until your competition is good enough that you stop winning. Our system rewards winning by attaching bigger and bigger weights to your feet until you stop winning.

100% this. I understand this season isn’t about prestige but this is getting out of hand. Lost 2 games in a row after winning two games due to a player that thought guardian scepter auto attack from range was sufficient enough to win a game (and being paired with this person twice) next game I felt their pain since there was a player on the opposite team that was in perma downed state since he believed that he would be allowed to res with me standing next to him. And in my head I knew someone on the opposite must have been on a winning streak.
The league system was a cool idea but doesn’t work in a game where carrying is a lot harder than in a moba (faster paced so less time to shotcall) and you don’t get stronger for doing well.
Honestly a pure MMR system would be best for everyone. 1000 is amber, 1200 emerald etc. Winning for losing a game makes you lose or gain mmr based on the matchmaking. So if a team has a “weight” on their side and lose they still lose MMR but not as much as if the match was even etc.

DeltaZero.6310:

Fay.2357:

A good system rewards winning by matching the winning player with other higher skilled players until your competition is good enough that you stop winning. Our system rewards winning by attaching bigger and bigger weights to your feet until you stop winning.

The league system was a cool idea but doesn’t work in a game where carrying is a lot harder than in a moba (faster paced so less time to shotcall) and you don’t get stronger for doing well.
Honestly a pure MMR system would be best for everyone. 1000 is amber, 1200 emerald etc. Winning for losing a game makes you lose or gain mmr based on the matchmaking. So if a team has a “weight” on their side and lose they still lose MMR but not as much as if the match was even etc.

I definitely agree that some classes simply carry a lot better (user error is greater vs condi teams, etc) but a pure mmr system would be worse for casuals who make up 90% of the game. I honestly think the League system can’t get a whole lot better unless Anet looks into a smarter Matchmaking system all together.

It’s awkward double posting in two threads so, i’ll just leave this here as to why a pure mmr system would be worse.

Saiyan.1704:

I definitely agree that some classes simply carry a lot better (user error is greater vs condi teams, etc) but a pure mmr system would be worse for casuals who make up 90% of the game. I honestly think the League system can’t get a whole lot better unless Anet looks into a smarter Matchmaking system all together.

It’s awkward double posting in two threads so, i’ll just leave this here as to why a pure mmr system would be worse.

While I cant argue that longer queue times would be worse, the 2nd reason being that casuals would be upset is not really valid imo. Generally ranked anything is not aimed at casuals and gw2 even have an unranked queue. If someone gets upset that they have reached their peak in ranking then they should polish up their play in unranked instead.
The idea of a diamond that doesn’t understand that trying to rez with no teammates about when being watched for 3 mins is not helpful to his team doesn’t really makes the idea of ranked leagues worth

DeltaZero.6310:

Saiyan.1704:

I definitely agree that some classes simply carry a lot better (user error is greater vs condi teams, etc) but a pure mmr system would be worse for casuals who make up 90% of the game. I honestly think the League system can’t get a whole lot better unless Anet looks into a smarter Matchmaking system all together.

It’s awkward double posting in two threads so, i’ll just leave this here as to why a pure mmr system would be worse.

Generally ranked anything is not aimed at casuals and gw2 even have an unranked queue. If someone gets upset that they have reached their peak in ranking then they should polish up their play in unranked instead.
The idea of a diamond that doesn’t understand that trying to rez with no teammates about when being watched for 3 mins is not helpful to his team doesn’t really makes the idea of ranked leagues worth

It’s easy to say “that’s not what Ranked is” but.. that’s exactly what’s going on in GW2 Leagues. Players from all over the game wants the Legendary wings. They want titles and they want progression. GW2 Leagues is the biggest progression this game has and casuals makes up a large part of the SPvP population. To turn it into this huge Elitist Tournament MMR system would remove a lot of the casual player base from the game because…. the mmr system never worked well to begin with.

Yeah polling for the community to decide if they want only solo/duo is the best option .

Or go with the PiP or MMR ladder once again and implant an extra ‘’tick-box’’ called ’’CHALENGE’’ in the options right next to the que for Ranked .
While you are playing the the next Match to increase your MMR or PiP in the ladder , the system will try to find another player near your skillvl to have a ’’friendly’’ competition-minigame with your personal Stats vs his .
I can choose for example Healing Done + Decap , and he can choose Damage Done + Kills and and by default Winning the Match will be a huge factor .
If i beat him in Decap +2 of his options , but i lost the match = i will still Win the game , by having 3 v2 Stats

(Or i force him to join as Solo for the next game , if he accept my chalenge)

By winning the ’’CHALENGE’’ i get 1 Honor
(if i collect 300 i can get the Wings-Progression for Solo players vs Premades that will stack on top of the ladder)
or go inthe normal way and aim to win my matches and increase my MMR or PiP to get at the top of the ladder as solo .

If you want to avoid ppl using alts accounts to boost their main or there are not enought ppl at night , then the system will record your stats at the end of the match and and send an ’’CHALENGE’’ message to a ranodm ppl near your skilvl the next time they get in the Ranked game at the morning-noon .(but he wont know it that chalenge is from some1 that have played at night- or some1 is now online)

And there could be a a sheet with the names of ppls that you have beat … and at the end of the season you can put a Soloque Leaderboard , where the system calculates the names you have beat vs your losses and gives your ’’true’’ MMR (and awards bonus Hero pints (for the Wing) , based on your placement)

Edit: there could be a sily monetary restriction like :
You have 5 hearts-times you can loose > then play 3 normal ranked/unranked matches to restore the Hearts , or buy something fromthe Gemstore .
Or there could be an Item in the Gemstore that awards you randomly -2 …..2 Hero points (for the Wing) , if you win your next match – without using the minigame or chalenging any other person for his stats
Or every 2nd or 3rd match(or randomly) , based on the ‘’Chance to Win’’ (like season 1) you get -3….3 points

Afterwards use your half your stuff members and half your budget to create a spaceship called ‘’let me attack the non-EA-beckons ’’ , till the late September of 2017 :PP

I support a solo queue 100% In fact, I’d like to see tournaments be all solo queue. I think that would be a much better measure of individual skill.

Josh Davis.6015:

SPESHAL.9106:

The first obvious issue is matching premades with solo players.

Making leagues solo/duo queue is something we’ve discussed. We’re open to doing a beta of it, but we’d likely put it to a poll and have the community decide. We probably wouldn’t run a premade-only arena at the same time as there’s not enough 5-mans actively q’ing during a season to make the queue times reasonable.

It’s a no brainer. You have pure solo (no grouping allowed) and another queue for groups (solo’s, duo’s, up to 5 can queue).

Players who want to run a purely solo game queue solo, and those who want to work with more organised groups hit the group option. Smart players will have TS (or whatever) active and join rooms etc accordingly.

It’s about intention.

Solo and Duo is the way to go. If it were pure Solo, it would destroy a lot of comradery within the community. I think I actually agree with beta testing a Solo/Duo only season. This also eliminates the virtue of 4-5 man premade TS use, wich creates a large divide between voice chat users and non voice chat users. This would help shorten the gaps between the professional community, intermediates and casuals, in terms of community segregation.

But what about guild league ladder play? How to judge ESL qualification?

Also, to clear up a bit of confusion:

My initial post was not about the MMR stacking in the previous season. I was referring to how “ranked” was said to operate now like “unranked” which, to my knowledge, has always operated just like this:

Justin ODell.9517:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

After hundreds and thousands of matches, it is very visible that your MMR system functions as this:

• Ten players que at the same time
• High MMRs are 10, low MMRs are 1
• The ten players qued look like this: 10, 6, 5, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1
• System tries to balance two teams from these MMRs
• Result looks like this -> RED: 10, 4, 3, 2, 1 --- BLUE: 6, 5, 4, 3, 2

This is not how the system works. The old solo queue worked like this, sort of.

You can find more details on matchmaking here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

The current system is more likely to produce a result like this…
Red: 10, 5, 4, 3, 2
Blue: 6, 4, 3, 2, 1

Which could be argued is less fair, but really because MMR isn’t the only factor this is an oversimplification.

In other conversations during the thread that this quote came from, it was explained to me that the system indeed creates a Team B which are lower MMRs that have currently been outperforming their MMRs and are being given a chance to face a team of higher average MMR, for a chance to raise their MMRs. This is apparently why the numbers look the way they do in the split that Justin explained. Is this still the case?

If it is, I was suggesting removing that particular function so that there simply is nothing within the server that is placing any MMR favoritism on any team. The MMR would sort itself out anyway if the matches really were as balanced as possible. Example:

• With the players in que, within my quote: 10, 6, 5, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1
• Why use the split explained by Justin: Red: 10, 5, 4, 3, 2 Blue: 6, 4, 3, 2, 1? This putting lower MMRs against highers for a chance to rise is exactly what is causing win/lose streaks.
• Why not use the split I mentioned: RED: 10, 4, 3, 2, 1 —- BLUE: 6, 5, 4, 3, 2? Which is at the least equal in average MMR, with no “lesser MMRs given chance to rise against higher MMRs”. The players would sort their true MMRs out anyway but it would be through a series of closely balanced matches.

Is there something I am missing or not understanding here?

Josh Davis.6015:

SPESHAL.9106:

The first obvious issue is matching premades with solo players.

Making leagues solo/duo queue is something we’ve discussed. We’re open to doing a beta of it, but we’d likely put it to a poll and have the community decide. We probably wouldn’t run a premade-only arena at the same time as there’s not enough 5-mans actively q’ing during a season to make the queue times reasonable.

prob the best thing i’ve heard from anet pvp in a while.

but u’ve sayd some other pretty things before too. we’ll believe it when we seize it

Josh Davis.6015:

SPESHAL.9106:

The first obvious issue is matching premades with solo players.

Making leagues solo/duo queue is something we’ve discussed. We’re open to doing a beta of it, but we’d likely put it to a poll and have the community decide. We probably wouldn’t run a premade-only arena at the same time as there’s not enough 5-mans actively q’ing during a season to make the queue times reasonable.

TeamQ and SoloQ

Not that hard

+1 team queue and solo queue as it was before. If that means that teams have to wait longer to play instead of simply getting to slam solos, so much the better.

What bothers me the most is the fact my matches are determined not only by me but how well 4 other people perform.

Why should anyones MMR be determined by a w/l ratio that 4 other people control aswell?

Why not a kill/death ratio with match participation? MMR should be about the players effort, not the teams. That’s why it’s called personal match-making rating

New players being carried by their starting line average mmr then being teamed with slightly above average 1k+ ranked players. Which then tanks the genuine average-above average players. That’s just not fun. At all.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Josh Davis.6015:

SPESHAL.9106:

The first obvious issue is matching premades with solo players.

Making leagues solo/duo queue is something we’ve discussed. We’re open to doing a beta of it, but we’d likely put it to a poll and have the community decide. We probably wouldn’t run a premade-only arena at the same time as there’s not enough 5-mans actively q’ing during a season to make the queue times reasonable.

It’s a no brainer. You have pure solo (no grouping allowed) and another queue for groups (solo’s, duo’s, up to 5 can queue).

Players who want to run a purely solo game queue solo, and those who want to work with more organised groups hit the group option. Smart players will have TS (or whatever) active and join rooms etc accordingly.

It’s about intention.

You need SoloQ’s to fill in gaps – Where would a team of 4 go? Sure, a trioq can be paired with a duoq – but you need a soloq person if you have two duoqs or a 4-team, and two trioqs can’t be paired.

I don’t like having K/D since many times you can be supporting the team (eg. druid/engy) and not net a lot of kills especially if you’re holding points say 2v3 with an ally and can’t kill any of the 3 yet not dying.

I agree with the solo/team breakup simply because premades really mess up matchmaking. Most premades are either easy to beat or very hard to beat and nothing in between since the matchmaking system is bad at managing premades.

For example, far too often some high league guy decides to party up with some low rank (legit low rank) people in a duo/trio which messes up the rest of his team since the system expects them to be their level but instead they’re not. Through no fault of their own the solo q players are punished by being put on a trash premade which is ‘overrated’ due to the MM system taking the highest guy’s rating (also +premade rating padding). 2 of my last 5 games to legend this season were free wins against a trash premade too so I was actually happy I lucked out but it could’ve went the other way which sucks.

Haleydawn.3764:

What bothers me the most is the fact my matches are determined not only by me but how well 4 other people perform.

Why should anyones MMR be determined by a w/l ratio that 4 other people control aswell?

Because it evens out over time as you’re randomly matched with other people, and the only consistent factor is you. While inaccurate matchmaking could artificially deflate or inflate your MMR at first, eventually you’ll start being teamed with people in the same situation as you to the predictable results (deflated-MMR players get teamed up and win blowout matches and launched toward their true MMR value. Inflated-MMR players get paired up and then curbstomped, reducing their MMR to true value.)

Why not a kill/death ratio with match participation? MMR should be about the players effort, not the teams. That’s why it’s called personal match-making rating

Because there’s more to the game than K/D ratio. In fact, K/D can even be detrimental by having players focus on trying to get kills and stay alive more than play the map and match.

New players being carried by their starting line average mmr then being teamed with slightly above average 1k+ ranked players. Which then tanks the genuine average-above average players. That’s just not fun. At all.

Until the ‘carried’ new players get matched up with other carried new players, and get their MMR tanked from the blowout defeat they get from that. Or those who’ve had their MMR tanked by bad teammates getting teamed up randomly, and raising their MMR in a blowout match against truly low-MMR players.

Fay.2357:

No Ithilwen, you’re missing the whole basic function of the system. I’ll try and explain it a bit better.

To be fair, the only thing you’ve been explaining is that you don’t have a clue on how the system works. You’re not the only one here in that case. And you’re also not the only one claiming otherwise.

Most people posting here are assuming that the devs are morons and unable of producing the slightest intelligent thinking. Stop being so full of yourselves. Let me elaborate :

Fay.2357:

We can start by saying skill is represented as a number from 1-10, 10 being high. An “even” match occurs when the total skill on both sides is the same.

There’s no point trying to represent the skill by that range of yours when it is already represented by the system as the MMR. MMR’s range is unknown, so far, and it’d be irrelevant to the discussion. However, it’s certainly wider than a pityful “1-10” scale that does not allow any nuance. And this is precisely where YOU are either missing the point or fallaciously trying to convince us you’re right with biaised and distorded examples :

Fay.2357:

Here’s where the key part is. As a result of winning, the system moves their number from 7 up to 9, and begins matching them with a pool of people between 9 and 10. This way balance is restored AND everyone is playing people of similar skill.

First bullkitten here. If that really worked that way with such numbers, it’d mean that a win would grant your MMR a gain equivalent to a whole division. If a single win where you get carried by a better player can earn you a promotion from 7 to 9 in a 1-10 scale, then yes this would be completely flawed. This is NOT the case. Not by a long shot.

Being better only affect, in an observable range, your own MMR. This is a result of the system asking for way more than ONE game to actually consider the MMR changes as relevant. That’s also why you can win 2 times in a row against the same person and be matched with him next, that’s because the numbers would not and SHOULD NOT change faster than that. Eventually if this person is really that worse than where you both are, and you better, your MMR will get that higher from his that you will not play neither with or against him.

Fay.2357:

Let’s look at what happens in our system. The pool of players is more diverse. You’ll have teams that look more like 23489 and 25558. If the person with skill 4 wins a lot, the system will then change their number higher, let’s say to 8. This is where the difference happens. As a result of this increase, they now are matched with far worse players in order to keep the teams balanced. Instead of moving up to a higher division of competition, they are kept in the same pool and matched with worse players.

Second freaking bullkitten, and quite a huge one there.

1 – “like 23489 and 25558”. Unless there are premades with widely different skill levels, this is NOT possible. What you mean is that an amber player could be randomly matched with a legend player. That is NOT the case and will NEVER be the case. You are totally mixing the MMR and pip system and misunderstanding them there.

2 – The pip system is by no mean a perfect system to evaluate people’s skill level. While it is often close enough to be considered as relevant, it’s MMR’s job to evaluate precisely people’s level. You are mixing these two separate systems there and their own goals. The only flaw in the current system is that the matchmaking actually considers the pip system along with the MMR to create game. It should only use the MMR, which is partly what Josh Davis told us they were working on for S5.

Fay.2357:

A good system rewards winning by matching the winning player with other higher skilled players until your competition is good enough that you stop winning. Our system rewards winning by attaching bigger and bigger weights to your feet until you stop winning.

Yes, no, that’s bullkitten. Again. Don’t let your beliefs plague this conversation and bring some facts. You are again assuming that the devs are complete morons and throw their feces at each others’ face instead of actually coding the game. This is not the case. And that would be nice for everyone if you all could actually stop believing in your godkitten very own analyse that is biaised by essence.

@JOSH DAVIS

If you do make a solo/duo queue ( and I sincerely hope this happens ) make sure there is an anti sync mechanic in place. Otherwise, the teams will just hack around it by queue’ing together and exploit the solos.

Sartharina.3542:

Until the ‘carried’ new players get matched up with other carried new players, and get their MMR tanked from the blowout defeat they get from that. Or those who’ve had their MMR tanked by bad teammates getting teamed up randomly, and raising their MMR in a blowout match against truly low-MMR players.

Which happened at ruby t1 the last few seasons because you could lose pips and tiers at ruby t1.

From my experience, any blowout I’ve had was either a DC, or people getting a little behind and quitting, or playing bad on purpose.

My win/loss streak is so up and down its hard to get any kind of streak or move up divisions as you loose all the pips you gain before going up a division!

Also why are pre-made teams/full parties allowed to fight all solo players again!

Can’t you make AT’s (Automated Tournaments) like in gw1?
Conquest is a teamgame. While the industry dictates soloplay to be a viable option, the game needs a competitive team infrastructure. I know it’ll be hard because of the past 4 years not providing a complete competitive infrastructure for teams to thrive in but AT’s could be a viable option.

The only thing we had in the past where the paid tournaments and such, which were a blast if you actually had a team. I guess they failed because the infrastructure was pretty barebone too back then and it lacked soloplay.

So I guess, you need both. Soloplay and teamplay. While making a team league isn’t feasible considering the state of the competitive scene (you said it yourself: “not enough teams queue”), AT’s could be the answer here. Have them open up at certain times, slap some exclusive rewards on it and if you want to go crazy give us an observer mode (again a la gw1) and have those AT’s feature in said observer mode.

You like esports, you’ve been supporting it for years (since gw1) but can you please look at the bigger picture and realise that you need a competitive scene IN-GAME first.
You need to allow players to grow from casual —> casual-competitive --> competitive —> esports. At this point we have: casual // esports.

For the interested people who didn’t play gw1: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Automated_tournament
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Observer_mode

This would do soooooo much for the game.

Josh Davis.6015:

SPESHAL.9106:

The first obvious issue is matching premades with solo players.

Making leagues solo/duo queue is something we’ve discussed. We’re open to doing a beta of it, but we’d likely put it to a poll and have the community decide. We probably wouldn’t run a premade-only arena at the same time as there’s not enough 5-mans actively q’ing during a season to make the queue times reasonable.

Yes, please make next season soloQ with no class stacking.
Relogging to a class that already exists in your team should kick you back to character selection or give dishonor.

I miss the old days when you could religious on a different character and spawn outside the match, those were the days.

Josh Davis.6015:

SPESHAL.9106:

The first obvious issue is matching premades with solo players.

Making leagues solo/duo queue is something we’ve discussed. We’re open to doing a beta of it, but we’d likely put it to a poll and have the community decide. We probably wouldn’t run a premade-only arena at the same time as there’s not enough 5-mans actively q’ing during a season to make the queue times reasonable.

the first obvious issue is that you are creating multiple indicators for player-skill to enharden your matchmaking work. You had and still have issues… why make your own work harder?
Innovation is cute and everything but i’d stick to a single numerical 1→2k scale for simplicity.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi there,

First, here’s the a recent post on the topic:

Gaile Gray.6029:

With the start of Season 4, we’ll be returning to Season 1’s style of matchmaking which focuses on creating the most balanced teams from the players queueing within your pip range. This change may widen the skill range of players in each division, but we feel that increased match quality is worth the trade-off of reduced prestige for this season. During Season 2 and 3 we added two league features that greatly impacted your ability to climb: start-of-season division placement based on previous season performance and win/lose streak pips, and both of these features will remain enabled for Season 4.

Season 4 matchmaking is already using MMR to create the most balanced teams possible. Teams are no longer “stacked” as they were in Season 2 and 3.

The problem (that we’re solving for S5) is that we’re currently searching for players close to your division to match you against. This means that the pool of players that we can pull from to create a match is much smaller than if we were using the entire pool of players. A player may have a high-enough MMR to put them in the top 100, but if they’re in Sapphire they’re only going to get matched with players that are in or around Sapphire. Season 5 will use the entire pool of players for creating matches – this should help the system create more balanced matches and improve queue times.

As for the “forced 50/50”, there’s nothing on the backend that forces a certain win-rate. This is a byproduct of your MMR settling.

It’s only a shame that there are still many people that need to suffer through the current matchmaking if they want to get their wings only to see “hey, we’re fixing it next season,” when that does literally nothing to make the journey for the ascension any more bearable, especially when you guard any information about how attainable the ascension will be after season 4 more closely than KFC guarded their 11 herbs and spices.

Despite me needing to basically only get through Sapphire this season, I’m weighing losing potentially all of my work to get it next season, or just forcing myself to suck it up and probably quitting after the end of S4 because of burnout and hatred of where the game is.

I’m very curious as to why my win rate dropped almost 20% this season. I’m not the most recognizable player sure, but I’ve played PvP for years, participated in minor tourneys and soloqed to legend in season 1. I’ve consistently maintained a high win rate of at least ~60%+ in ranked queues for almost 2 years, getting matched with and against the top players. I’m probably in the 1% skill group. Now why is my win rate close to 50% this season? Surely there is some kind of mechanism punishing me/players like me? I’m not getting matched with/vs particularly skilled players or anything. I’m legitimately trying to understand, maybe I’m actually not very good and completely delusional? I just think that’s less likely when the difference is that big.

Great example of what I’m talking about here, concerning figuring out if:

• Server is still stacking favored teams
• Is some unidentified group of people trolling for theatrical fake matches? Are some of these matches even real? Who would these people be?

Really wish I would have recorded this match. It would have been an excellent post to support my questions in this thread. I mean seriously, after you read this, you’ll see why I sometimes wonder if these matches are even real. I just don’t understand how I am being told by the arena-net design team that I am being given “the most balanced matches possible” and then matches like this happen →

Lost a match tonight where on the initial split, I pushed far point. One guy stays to cap our home of course, Three go mid and eventually the guy from home goes to mid. Three enemy players arced back to me at far point. I rolled around surviving for over two minutes against three players, all while holding the point neutral. In fact, I even managed to kill a bad thief in the process whom respawned and came right back to far to +3 me again. During this time, my team lost the mid point within the first minute of the match in a 4v2. YES, a 4v2 in their favor, they wiped. This happened. When respawning, they also failed to defend the home point in a 4v2. This continued the entire match. I died once at far point, respawned and immediately recapped the point and those same three guys came back to do the same thing to me again until the end of the match. I even managed to steal both creatures during this match on the enemies side. But my four other team mates, did not once win their 4v2 very advantage situation and could not cap/hold anything.

I could not have possibly carried this match any harder than I did. Even though this was the worst match I have seen in a very long time, I do often get situations like this where there is no potential win to salvage from the match, regardless of how good of a player you are. Am I the only one being given impossible matches like this? Matches that are so bad, that you actually sit back and wonder “Was this even real? Is it even possible for players to be this bad or am I being trolled right now?”
~ Serious question by the way. I’d like to hear what other users have to say about this.

Trevor this has been a common experience for me. Winning outnumbered fights constantly yet losing all other nodes because the MM system gives me trash tier players.

In fact my block list is at least 25-30 people longer since this season started so I could q dodge the bads but it just never ended, there were always more bads. A shocking trend I noticed was a lot of these players had REALLY low AP even by PvP player standards (eg. 2k, 1k or lower). They were obviously quite new and had no place in ranked Diamond or above.

The system basically thinks 10,5,5,5,5 is equal to 6,6,6,6,6 when in fact it causes insane pressure on the 10 guy to perform since the 5s will always lose to the 6s even numbers.

Numerous games I have left people to 1v1 or 2v2 and mirror comp (eg. rev vs rev) and my team’s people would lose. It is infuriating.

I fully support the idea of a solo/duo queue only league option. Allowing duo q in a soloq league is fine since i dont think it affects it that much. You can even set it so that a team can only have one duo q party, so 2,1,1,1 not 2,2,1.

REGGADO.1237:

sephiroth.4217:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi there,

First, here’s the a recent post on the topic:

Gaile Gray.6029:

With the start of Season 4, we’ll be returning to Season 1’s style of matchmaking which focuses on creating the most balanced teams from the players queueing within your pip range. This change may widen the skill range of players in each division, but we feel that increased match quality is worth the trade-off of reduced prestige for this season. During Season 2 and 3 we added two league features that greatly impacted your ability to climb: start-of-season division placement based on previous season performance and win/lose streak pips, and both of these features will remain enabled for Season 4.

Season 4 matchmaking is already using MMR to create the most balanced teams possible. Teams are no longer “stacked” as they were in Season 2 and 3.

The problem (that we’re solving for S5) is that we’re currently searching for players close to your division to match you against. This means that the pool of players that we can pull from to create a match is much smaller than if we were using the entire pool of players. A player may have a high-enough MMR to put them in the top 100, but if they’re in Sapphire they’re only going to get matched with players that are in or around Sapphire. Season 5 will use the entire pool of players for creating matches – this should help the system create more balanced matches and improve queue times.

As for the “forced 50/50”, there’s nothing on the backend that forces a certain win-rate. This is a byproduct of your MMR settling.

I don’t believe this byproduct….

I win a few games with team mates who know what they are doing, they have a minimum of 12k AP each…. A few wins later I’m on a team that doesn’t even have a total of 6k AP…..

The system forces losses so everyone can have medal and it’s kittening bullkitten.

Isnt thats normal? Pvp players got less ap since they dont do pve achievements? Many pvp players got more ‘pvp games played’ than ap.

Its lke 6k ap player could have 6k games played, while 12k ap played only 120 games.

A total of 6k AP across 4 different players works out to an average of 1250 AP per player.

I’m still fairly new to the game (less than 3 months) and I have around 2k AP just from PVP achievements. For someone to have under 2.5k AP means they either do nothing but sit in LA or they’re absolutely brand new to the game.

Yeah that does make sense, Fish.

I’m definitely not a 10ish MMR but I’ve got to be around 7-8ish at the least. It looks like this season, the longer a higher MMR waits to grind through divisions, the worse your punishment becomes because: Other high MMRs have already grinded away from you in to diamond and legend, leaving you stuck with the majority of the community which are probably half comprised of 4-6s and then the other half of 1-3s, with the occasional outlier 7-8 who started late or doesn’t have a lot of time to play. So that higher MMR routinely is being placed with those 1-3s vs. teams of 4-6s and like you stated as example, a 7-8ish MMR will be able to 1v2 and hold a single node vs. 4s-6s but his 1-3s are getting wine pressed on the other two nodes. Due to the nature of how 3 node conquest works, “10, 5, 5, 5, 5 vs 6, 6, 6, 6, 6” looks good on paper but doesn’t work in application as a balanced match.

Sounds about right to me and would definitely explain why I am more and more frequently getting funky matches like this, the longer this season goes on. At this rate, it won’t be realistic to progress any further this season with solo ques. That’s too bad.

Thing is, I think that the unranked method of match making would work just fine for ranked IF divisions had nothing to do with the match making. Division segregation of players with similar MMRs that should be interacting with each other but are not, is causing too many problems.

Could they hot fix this problem simply by allowing the algorithm to identify that a single higher MMR on a team with lower MMRs does not make up for vs. a team of all average MMRs:

• Take that 10, 5, 5, 5, 5 vs. 6, 6, 6, 6, 6 split as example. Say the system understands 3 node play and identifies that the team of 6s is more than likely going to hold 2 nodes over the 10, 5, 5, 5, 5. Which equates to a pretty blow out match in reality, in contradiction to what the numbers show on paper. The system could flash around some theoretical situations to gauge this → 1st flash it considers the 10 by himself on a node defending against a 6, it sees 10 should win. 2nd flash it considers 5, 5 vs. 6, 6 on two other nodes, it sees that the 5, 5s vs. 6, 6s is imbalanced on both other nodes and this should set of an alarm to the algorithm that the match is not balanced. It could then swap a 6 to the 10s team and put a 5 on the team with the 6s. So on and so forth through a system of flashing theoretical node positioning and favorable outcomes, until the system finds the best balance in terms of “both teams have equal chances of contesting 2 nodes”.

Hopefully that bad theory-crafting made sense.

I disagree with a solo/duo split. Logically you’d have to inhibit all 4 man parties from participating in ranked, which makes no sense.

Instead, I would hope that season 5 brings better methods for statisticall analysis so that Anet can can come up with some measure for the average offset created by team communication, and then counter that offset through MMR matching.

Fay.2357:

No Ithilwen, you’re missing the whole basic function of the system. I’ll try and explain it a bit better.

We can start by saying skill is represented as a number from 1-10, 10 being high. An “even” match occurs when the total skill on both sides is the same.

In the proper system, the matchmaking is drawing from a pool of people that all have similar skill, let’s say between 7 and 8. So you’ll have one team that’s something like 77888 and the other team is 77788, so total skill is very similar. However, one of those people actually has a higher skill than the system thinks. Instead of being a 7, they’re actually. 10. This unbalances the match and causes them to win. Here’s where the key part is. As a result of winning, the system moves their number from 7 up to 9, and begins matching them with a pool of people between 9 and 10. This way balance is restored AND everyone is playing people of similar skill.

Let’s look at what happens in our system. The pool of players is more diverse. You’ll have teams that look more like 23489 and 25558. If the person with skill 4 wins a lot, the system will then change their number higher, let’s say to 8. This is where the difference happens. As a result of this increase, they now are matched with far worse players in order to keep the teams balanced. Instead of moving up to a higher division of competition, they are kept in the same pool and matched with worse players.

A good system rewards winning by matching the winning player with other higher skilled players until your competition is good enough that you stop winning. Our system rewards winning by attaching bigger and bigger weights to your feet until you stop winning.

I want this:

In the proper system, the matchmaking is drawing from a pool of people that all have similar skill, let’s say between 7 and 8. So you’ll have one team that’s something like 77888 and the other team is 77788, so total skill is very similar. However, one of those people actually has a higher skill than the system thinks. Instead of being a 7, they’re actually. 10. This unbalances the match and causes them to win. *Here’s where the key part is. As a result of winning, the system moves their number from 7 up to 9, and begins matching them with a pool of people between 9 and 10. This way balance is restored AND everyone is playing people of similar skill.*

Not just balanced team.

But with all the season and pips messing MMR, we will need a revert back from before HoT. (or a MMR reset for the new players since then)

Unranked is not perfect but it feels more or less like this. The skill gap seems less awkward than in rank queue. But unranked is not enough.

Putting all 7,7,7,7,7 vs 7,7,7,7,7 would be perfect. Winner should have a better challenge next match, like 7,5 vs 7,5… loser 6,5 vs 6,5…

So all losers got a chance to win and all winners got a chance to lose.

:)

I would not mind playing with +1 or -1 in skill section, but I don’t want to play with -5 skill players on my soloq team again.

Reikou.7068:

Josh Davis.6015:

The problem (that we’re solving for S5) is that we’re currently searching for players close to your division to match you against. This means that the pool of players that we can pull from to create a match is much smaller than if we were using the entire pool of players. A player may have a high-enough MMR to put them in the top 100, but if they’re in Sapphire they’re only going to get matched with players that are in or around Sapphire. Season 5 will use the entire pool of players for creating matches – this should help the system create more balanced matches and improve queue times.

Are you also going to be tying MMR to Division in Season 5? I can see the proposed method working IF division was tied to MMR. However, if it isn’t, the division players end up in will literally be the result of RNG and grind.

The other alternative would be to alter pip gains/loss depending on a player’s MMR. The higher the MMR, the more pips they gain per win, and the less they lose on a loss.

The lower a player’s MMR, the less they gain on a win, and the more they lose on a loss.

I think you got it backward.

Higher you are, higher your risk.

Lower you are, higher your gain.

High skill players should proof they are really this.

Lower skill players need chance to show they are better.

To balance that, Anet give more MMR to lower win vs higher lost.

And they remove more MMR to higher lost vs lower win.

All the process should be —> transparent like it is in Overwatch.

Show all MMR and all “gain and lost” on it at the end of the match. All need to get calculated individually vs opponent team mmr avg.

Josh Davis.6015:

We probably wouldn’t run a premade-only arena at the same time as there’s not enough 5-mans actively q’ing during a season to make the queue times reasonable.

Maybe it’s just me using common sense, but doesn’t this tell you something???

It’s also funny that you used the word “arena” in your reply.

Why design a 5 man conquest type league for ranking players if you can’t get enough 5 man premades? Why not design an arena style for 2-3 man groups? Why is the number 5 sacred for conquest? Why is conquest sacred?

What more evidence is necessary for something to change? Don’t you have enough information that shows getting 5 people premades to play conquest doesn’t work???

Whoever thought mixing premades and solo players would force more people into premades didn’t think things through. It may have empirically increased the number of PuG premades, but it doesn’t improve the game. In fact, it’s made things worse because the algorithm can’t account for the large delta in quality of premades now.

Again, it just seems like common sense. You want people to play 5v5 conquest, but you have tons of evidence showing that there aren’t enough people interested in grouping with 5 others (WoW also had tons of evidence for many years you could leverage too).

Instead of fixing that aspect, you decide to mix premades with solo players. This has created misery for solo players…super easy wins for experienced/synergized profession premades on TS…and made matchmaking impossible for an algorithm to handle.

You can keep fighting logic and shuffling matchmaking algorithms from each season all you want. As we’ve see for 4 seasons now, it’s not materially improving anything.

SPESHAL.9106:

Josh Davis.6015:

We probably wouldn’t run a premade-only arena at the same time as there’s not enough 5-mans actively q’ing during a season to make the queue times reasonable.

Maybe it’s just me using common sense, but doesn’t this tell you something???

It’s also funny that you used the word “arena” in your reply.

Why design a 5 man conquest type league for ranking players if you can’t get enough 5 man premades? Why not design an arena style for 2-3 man groups? Why is the number 5 sacred for conquest? Why is conquest sacred?

What more evidence is necessary for something to change? Don’t you have enough information that shows getting 5 people premades to play conquest doesn’t work???

Whoever thought mixing premades and solo players would force more people into premades didn’t think things through. It may have empirically increased the number of PuG premades, but it doesn’t improve the game. In fact, it’s made things worse because the algorithm can’t account for the large delta in quality of premades now.

Again, it just seems like common sense. You want people to play 5v5 conquest, but you have tons of evidence showing that there aren’t enough people interested in grouping with 5 others (WoW also had tons of evidence for many years you could leverage too).

Instead of fixing that aspect, you decide to mix premades with solo players. This has created misery for solo players…super easy wins for experienced/synergized profession premades on TS…and made matchmaking impossible for an algorithm to handle.

You can keep fighting logic and shuffling matchmaking algorithms from each season all you want. As we’ve see for 4 seasons now, it’s not materially improving anything.

I really wish when they announced Stronghold that it was going to be a 3v3 game mode. I don’t think conquest as it is now would work in 3v3, but I agree that having a good 3v3 mode is one of the best solutions to revitalize the game in my mind.

Jourdelune.7456:

Reikou.7068:

Josh Davis.6015:

The problem (that we’re solving for S5) is that we’re currently searching for players close to your division to match you against. This means that the pool of players that we can pull from to create a match is much smaller than if we were using the entire pool of players. A player may have a high-enough MMR to put them in the top 100, but if they’re in Sapphire they’re only going to get matched with players that are in or around Sapphire. Season 5 will use the entire pool of players for creating matches – this should help the system create more balanced matches and improve queue times.

Are you also going to be tying MMR to Division in Season 5? I can see the proposed method working IF division was tied to MMR. However, if it isn’t, the division players end up in will literally be the result of RNG and grind.

The other alternative would be to alter pip gains/loss depending on a player’s MMR. The higher the MMR, the more pips they gain per win, and the less they lose on a loss.

The lower a player’s MMR, the less they gain on a win, and the more they lose on a loss.

I think you got it backward.

Higher you are, higher your risk.

Lower you are, higher your gain.

High skill players should proof they are really this.

Lower skill players need chance to show they are better.

To balance that, Anet give more MMR to lower win vs higher lost.

And they remove more MMR to higher lost vs lower win.

All the process should be —> transparent like it is in Overwatch.

Show all MMR and all “gain and lost” on it at the end of the match. All need to get calculated individually vs opponent team mmr avg.

No actually it’s not backwards, you’re just misunderstanding.

Yes low MMR should get a higher boost to MMR after a win. This is how it currently works and effectively predicts how much a player is going to contribute to a match.

What he’s saying is that during a win, the player with the low MMR should get few pips and the one with high MMR get more pips. This is a method for separating tiers by MMR.

Essentially this is how it would flow for an individual:

You have average MMR in your tier and you are playing 10 games. You get a lot of wins so your MMR goes up until it is higher on average than the rest of the players in that tier. Then you start getting additional pips for wins to help push you into the next tier.

In the next tier, you have the lowest MMR on average. If you lose a lot here, you will fall back to where you were and bounce back and forth between tiers. That means you are among people of the same skill level and you would stay there until you improve. If you instead were winning in this next tier, your MMR would increase more quickly because it was lower than average at the time.

After many many games, your tier will represent other players who have similar MMR scores. You will be very likely to be placed both with and against players who play similarly to yourself. You won’t have to worry about getting garbage on your team, nor be forced to play against anyone with an extreme skillset. Blowout matches will be much less common.

SneakyTouchy.6043:

Jourdelune.7456:

Reikou.7068:

Josh Davis.6015:

The problem (that we’re solving for S5) is that we’re currently searching for players close to your division to match you against. This means that the pool of players that we can pull from to create a match is much smaller than if we were using the entire pool of players. A player may have a high-enough MMR to put them in the top 100, but if they’re in Sapphire they’re only going to get matched with players that are in or around Sapphire. Season 5 will use the entire pool of players for creating matches – this should help the system create more balanced matches and improve queue times.

Are you also going to be tying MMR to Division in Season 5? I can see the proposed method working IF division was tied to MMR. However, if it isn’t, the division players end up in will literally be the result of RNG and grind.

The other alternative would be to alter pip gains/loss depending on a player’s MMR. The higher the MMR, the more pips they gain per win, and the less they lose on a loss.

The lower a player’s MMR, the less they gain on a win, and the more they lose on a loss.

I think you got it backward.

Higher you are, higher your risk.

Lower you are, higher your gain.

High skill players should proof they are really this.

Lower skill players need chance to show they are better.

To balance that, Anet give more MMR to lower win vs higher lost.

And they remove more MMR to higher lost vs lower win.

All the process should be —> transparent like it is in Overwatch.

Show all MMR and all “gain and lost” on it at the end of the match. All need to get calculated individually vs opponent team mmr avg.

No actually it’s not backwards, you’re just misunderstanding.

Yes low MMR should get a higher boost to MMR after a win. This is how it currently works and effectively predicts how much a player is going to contribute to a match.

What he’s saying is that during a win, the player with the low MMR should get few pips and the one with high MMR get more pips. This is a method for separating tiers by MMR.

Essentially this is how it would flow for an individual:

You have average MMR in your tier and you are playing 10 games. You get a lot of wins so your MMR goes up until it is higher on average than the rest of the players in that tier. Then you start getting additional pips for wins to help push you into the next tier.

In the next tier, you have the lowest MMR on average. If you lose a lot here, you will fall back to where you were and bounce back and forth between tiers. That means you are among people of the same skill level and you would stay there until you improve. If you instead were winning in this next tier, your MMR would increase more quickly because it was lower than average at the time.

After many many games, your tier will represent other players who have similar MMR scores. You will be very likely to be placed both with and against players who play similarly to yourself. You won’t have to worry about getting garbage on your team, nor be forced to play against anyone with an extreme skillset. Blowout matches will be much less common.

Well thank you… my gain is for MMR, i don’t care about PIPS. I deformed the reading.

50/50 matchmaking is probably the best way to test your individual skill. You have far greater impact given that all things are otherwise equal. I much prefer this to the team stacking of last season.

Solstace.2514:

50/50 matchmaking is probably the best way to test your individual skill. You have far greater impact given that all things are otherwise equal. I much prefer this to the team stacking of last season.

I would prefer team stacking that consider both MMR to be in closer range than s1, s2, s3, s4. (remove the pip range / divisions, it don’t matter for skills)

It’s much more fun to play with and against people of your skill level.

When you get noob stomped over and over, noob don’t become casuals nor hardcore player.

Josh Davis.6015:

SPESHAL.9106:

The first obvious issue is matching premades with solo players.

Making leagues solo/duo queue is something we’ve discussed. We’re open to doing a beta of it, but we’d likely put it to a poll and have the community decide. We probably wouldn’t run a premade-only arena at the same time as there’s not enough 5-mans actively q’ing during a season to make the queue times reasonable.

Seems alot harder to put together pre-mades together then it was in the past! Many want to solo because they find it to be the holy grail to getting diamond or legendary.

As far as the comment replied to here I dont find going against premades to be an issue. I solo or team with a buddy I would say 75% of the matches. Never gone against a pre-made but maybe just a hand full of times and I will bet we beat them about 50% of the time.

Finally whats broken is I notice when I am on the blue team I get a player that you know is very new to pvp or has very little experience compared to the guys I usually get matched against. This is that guy that stealths you on point so you cant cap quickly or this is the guy that doesn’t rez instead he auto attacks the guy downing you. Some how I notice getting this type of player when matched on the blue team. In fact out of 100 matches played over the weekend I was on the blue team 64 times. Out of these 64 times 52 times I had “that” guy on my team. I lose 45 of those 52 games. There is something in the matchmaking that puts these guys on blue team more often then not. This is the same guy that thinks his job is nothing more then running supplies back and forth for door breakers, even after all the gates are down! lol

Something is wrong with matchmaking and that I find to be the worse part of pvp this season. DH’s are no match for me and I dont find them a huge issue most of the time. But everytime me and my buddy play and right after we win a match we end up on the blue team, and the running joke is who is the bad player. Most the time its exactly the guy we thought it would be and sometimes you know after the first skirmish.

I dont have the answer or even the best solution to this issue but I do know there is an issue and I know its not going up against pre-made teams. I also know its not going to make it any better if we spread out separate queues. I feel there is already too many queues in game or match variants that take away from the season queue. Queue times are up higher then I have ever seen them.

Anet you need to find a way to get more people queued together

Anet you also need to figure out how to make the experience of a player factor into the matchmaking. Matching players with a few hundred wins with someone like me with 10K+ wins is unfair to everyone.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I could not have possibly carried this match any harder than I did. Even though this was the worst match I have seen in a very long time, I do often get situations like this where there is no potential win to salvage from the match, regardless of how good of a player you are. Am I the only one being given impossible matches like this? Matches that are so bad, that you actually sit back and wonder “Was this even real? Is it even possible for players to be this bad or am I being trolled right now?”
~ Serious question by the way. I’d like to hear what other users have to say about this.

It is kitten near impossible to carry a team of 4 really inexperienced players(I’m being nice).
I have had many matches this season like you described playing out. It seems this season however what’s different from the last 3, is that the ants have found a way into the cookie jar and completely ruined the darn thing. I no longer recognize any names, and most have little to no AP.

You know MMR hell is real. If you don’t progress fast enough through the divisions within the first week, consider yourself screwed, especially if you are an established long time PvP’r.

yay for wings? I’d settle for some decent pvp.

Josh Davis.6015:

SPESHAL.9106:

The first obvious issue is matching premades with solo players.

Making leagues solo/duo queue is something we’ve discussed. We’re open to doing a beta of it, but we’d likely put it to a poll and have the community decide. We probably wouldn’t run a premade-only arena at the same time as there’s not enough 5-mans actively q’ing during a season to make the queue times reasonable.

Totally +1 for a beta only solo and duo queue.

A dream come true