Guild Wars 2

Can we remove the mesmer elite skill which turns you into a moa for 10 seconds? It feels redicilous to not be allowed to use your skills for such a long time.

They nerfed the hell out of it already. I don’t play Mesmer and I think it’s UP.

I crit for 2k on auto attack, the better skills can crit for nearly 4k. It gives you a bonus evade. I think it’s fine as is or needs a small buff.

Malediktus.9250:

Can we remove the mesmer elite skill which turns you into a moa for 10 seconds? It feels redicilous to not be allowed to use your skills for such a long time.

No.

Moa form can be evaded, dodjed, can miss by Blind use or be blocked. But ues, is the powerfull skill in the game. Because make you unable to fight or broke it. You can only use the skill 5 to run away. The moa form can make you able to fight, but… you don’t know the skills, when you became a moa you need 2-3 seconds to think “kitten, I’m a F**** bird! Now what’s the skill to escape and what’s the skill to fight?” Then you’re dead.
And yes, the sword skill is the best 1h weapon skill ever. It make you able to hit the enemy, inflict a very high damage (more than 4k whit berserker equip, expecially in spvp), and the enemy can’t hit you for 2.5 sec and the execution time is of 0.5 sec!!!
Ok, you skill for the duration of 1/2 second and obtain 2 sec while you’re Immune to the enemy attacks. And whit a recharge of 12 (lesser whit the trait!). And it’s a buff, then if you’ve a equip that increase boon duration you can extend it (not shure about it)
Whit that 2 skills a mesmer that know how to use it’s pg can become very hard to kill. just whit 2 skills.

I think they must reduce the duration of the Moa form to 6 sec and the Blurry effect of the sword skill 2 can be reduced to 1.5 sec.

Then you can fight it.

Moa form gives aoe weakness … an extra evade and it’s hard to read(if not impossible) it’s dodges.

Dodging specific skills is hard enough in this game already with all these graphic effect mess and asura problem, so dodging is not always an option. And personally I think the moa form gives you horrible skills, I much more prefer my guardian skills which actually do something useful.
This game will never become an esport because of the horrendeous amount of aoes and control effects involved.

Yeah let’s count all the top teams and players using Moa!

…0

Lets count all the hotjoin masters using Moa!

…IT’S OVER 9000

I main mesmer and i want this to be removed from the game completely. i’ve said this tones of times and i will repeat until its gone. No skill should be turning you into a ^&$&%^# useless parrot that can’t do kitten

The OP didn’t even say the skill was OP. He just said it was frustrating.

NevirSayDie.6235:

The OP didn’t even say the skill was OP. He just said it was frustrating.

He never said it was frustrating. He implied it just as he implied that it was OP.

NevirSayDie.6235:

The OP didn’t even say the skill was OP. He just said it was frustrating.

And I would agree with the OP in that regard. The only counterplay this skill really has is the ability to dodge it, but if there are many visual effects surrounding the mesmer, even that’s difficult. It’s not fun when somebody uses it and it lands, because once that’s occurred you have no real options; moa form doesn’t do significant damage to anything unless you are specced for berserker stats, and it has no other utility besides 5. It’s really just a terribly designed skill that has no place in this game imo.

Dodging isn’t the only counter play. As was mentioned earlier its a telegraphed skill that is not difficult to interrupt and you can LoS obstruct or you can blind the Mesmer. Dodging is just one of the several counter plays, not the only one.

Malediktus.9250:

Can we remove the mesmer elite skill which turns you into a moa for 10 seconds? It feels redicilous to not be allowed to use your skills for such a long time.

Yeah it’s annyoing, but you can at least use “2”, “5” and your dodges, where traited extra efects remain.

Lux.7169:

Dodging isn’t the only counter play. As was mentioned earlier its a telegraphed skill that is not difficult to interrupt and you can LoS obstruct or you can blind the Mesmer. Dodging is just one of the several counter plays, not the only one.

Dodging is avoiding the skill itself. Obstructing is the same concept only harder to pull off if there is nothing nearby, blinding is again, just a way of avoiding the skill. Is this really turning into a semantics argument? You can do that with any skill in the game; its landed effect however is toxic to fair gameplay.

lol counter play. It doesn’t exist in gw2.

You can’t use obstructing as a viable counter since 99% of the fights take place in a circle aka the capture point. Which contains no way to los effectively. You can blind mesmer but WHAT IF you don’t have BLIND? Gasp!

And what if the mesmer casts it while stealth?

The op is indeed correct, skills like this shouldn’t exist in a pvp game. They sure didn’t exist in gw1.

Leuca.5732:

Lux.7169:

Dodging isn’t the only counter play. As was mentioned earlier its a telegraphed skill that is not difficult to interrupt and you can LoS obstruct or you can blind the Mesmer. Dodging is just one of the several counter plays, not the only one.

Dodging is avoiding the skill itself. Obstructing is the same concept only harder to pull off if there is nothing nearby, blinding is again, just a way of avoiding the skill. Is this really turning into a semantics argument? You can do that with any skill in the game; its landed effect however is toxic to fair gameplay.

Considering semantics and exact meaning is extremely important I would say yes, especially when you’re using a game specific term in a general sense.

Now I understand that you expected me to know that by dodge you didn’t mean just the in-game dodge. You meant blinding, obstructing, blocking, invulnerability, one-of-sight blocking, out-distancing, and of course dodging.

That’s the same as me using the term swiftness to talk about quickness and then getting annoyed with you when you assumed I meant the in game swiftness instead of just using attacks swiftly.

Your newest post contradicts your statement though. Your statement about the lack of counter play sounds silly now. It made more sense when it sounded like you said dodge was the only counter play, but now that I’ve listed 7 off the top of my head it sounds more like a L2P issue. Unless you genuinely mean that the 7+ counter plays to this skill are not viable even with skilled players.

I am by no means a top pvp player, I am casually doing some pvp inbetween pve stuff and I find it as someone guessed highly frustrating. In some matches I have been turned into a moa over 3 times

Malediktus.9250:

I am by no means a top pvp player, I am casually doing some pvp inbetween pve stuff and I find it as someone guessed highly frustrating. In some matches I have been turned into a moa over 3 times

My advice would be to create a Mesmer with the Moa elite, go to the test dummies, vast the elite as many times as it takes to memorize and immediately recognize the cast, so whenever you fight a Mesmer you’ll be that much more prepared to counter it.

Complaining about the skill in the forums is fine but realistically nothing will change. Your best bet is to be better orepared for it. Heck you can even ask a friend to cast it in you while you practice interrupting it or dodging it etc

Silv.9207:

Moa form can be evaded, dodjed, can miss by Blind use or be blocked. But ues, is the powerfull skill in the game. Because make you unable to fight or broke it. You can only use the skill 5 to run away. The moa form can make you able to fight, but… you don’t know the skills, when you became a moa you need 2-3 seconds to think “kitten, I’m a F**** bird! Now what’s the skill to escape and what’s the skill to fight?” Then you’re dead.
And yes, the sword skill is the best 1h weapon skill ever. It make you able to hit the enemy, inflict a very high damage (more than 4k whit berserker equip, expecially in spvp), and the enemy can’t hit you for 2.5 sec and the execution time is of 0.5 sec!!!
Ok, you skill for the duration of 1/2 second and obtain 2 sec while you’re Immune to the enemy attacks. And whit a recharge of 12 (lesser whit the trait!). And it’s a buff, then if you’ve a equip that increase boon duration you can extend it (not shure about it)
Whit that 2 skills a mesmer that know how to use it’s pg can become very hard to kill. just whit 2 skills.

I think they must reduce the duration of the Moa form to 6 sec and the Blurry effect of the sword skill 2 can be reduced to 1.5 sec.

Then you can fight it.

In that case you must allow movement during the blurr. Otherwise it isn’t onpair with other evade skills.

Lux.7169:

Dodging isn’t the only counter play. As was mentioned earlier its a telegraphed skill that is not difficult to interrupt and you can LoS obstruct or you can blind the Mesmer. Dodging is just one of the several counter plays, not the only one.

Please, avoid to spread misinformation.
The Moa Morph animation is extremely hard to read.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cqTJ2RdjJg

There is no telegraph at all. It is just an average, anonymous, pinky mesmer skill.

sorrow.2364:

Lux.7169:

Dodging isn’t the only counter play. As was mentioned earlier its a telegraphed skill that is not difficult to interrupt and you can LoS obstruct or you can blind the Mesmer. Dodging is just one of the several counter plays, not the only one.

Please, avoid to spread misinformation.
The Moa Morph animation is extremely hard to read.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cqTJ2RdjJg

There is no telegraph at all. It is just an average, anonymous, pinky mesmer skill.

That’s extremely easy for me to read. Everyone I PvP with would have no problem dodging or interrupting it because of the animation.

I could distinguish that from the Mesmer heals from the clone activations from the auto attacks extremely easily and so can all the other top players and mediocre players if they knew what to look for.

I will be home and online all night if you want to duel and try to land that on me.

Lux.7169:

Considering semantics and exact meaning is extremely important I would say yes, especially when you’re using a game specific term in a general sense.

Now I understand that you expected me to know that by dodge you didn’t mean just the in-game dodge. You meant blinding, obstructing, blocking, invulnerability, one-of-sight blocking, out-distancing, and of course dodging.

That’s the same as me using the term swiftness to talk about quickness and then getting annoyed with you when you assumed I meant the in game swiftness instead of just using attacks swiftly.

Your newest post contradicts your statement though. Your statement about the lack of counter play sounds silly now. It made more sense when it sounded like you said dodge was the only counter play, but now that I’ve listed 7 off the top of my head it sounds more like a L2P issue. Unless you genuinely mean that the 7+ counter plays to this skill are not viable even with skilled players.

It’s not really equivalent. Avoidance is a different in-combat tactic compared to blocking/invuln, which are not as readily available to certain professions. Your approach completely changes when you are dodging/LoS/outrange, because more often than not these actions interrupt your damage more so than blind/blocking/invuln, with exceptions being given to extremely long skills like shield stance, but even those can be terminated on command.

You’ve listed 7 off the top of your head that apply to every single-packet skill in the game that isn’t unblockable or that cleanses conditions upon activation. By that logic all of those skills have viable counterplay, but there are plenty more factors to consider even with other one-hit application skills; Moa lacks these other factors aside from the 5th skill and its recharge as an elite skill.

That’s extremely easy for me to read. Everyone I PvP with would have no problem dodging or interrupting it because of the animation.

Alone, yes, it is quite easy to read. Nobody is denying that. What you aren’t mentioning is stealth and the various other particle effects that can remove its visibility completely or obstruct it to the point that it blends in with every other purple sparkly thing around the mesmer.

Edit: I don’t think the skill is overpowered, but I also don’t think it’s healthy for the game.

Lux.7169:

sorrow.2364:

Lux.7169:

Dodging isn’t the only counter play. As was mentioned earlier its a telegraphed skill that is not difficult to interrupt and you can LoS obstruct or you can blind the Mesmer. Dodging is just one of the several counter plays, not the only one.

Please, avoid to spread misinformation.
The Moa Morph animation is extremely hard to read.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cqTJ2RdjJg

There is no telegraph at all. It is just an average, anonymous, pinky mesmer skill.

That’s extremely easy for me to read. Everyone I PvP with would have no problem dodging or interrupting it because of the animation.

I could distinguish that from the Mesmer heals from the clone activations from the auto attacks extremely easily and so can all the other top players and mediocre players if they knew what to look for.

I will be home and online all night if you want to duel and try to land that on me.

Lol duel. What about a nice fight involving asuras, minion mancers and a spirit ranger or two?

Leuca.5732:

Lux.7169:

Considering semantics and exact meaning is extremely important I would say yes, especially when you’re using a game specific term in a general sense.

Now I understand that you expected me to know that by dodge you didn’t mean just the in-game dodge. You meant blinding, obstructing, blocking, invulnerability, one-of-sight blocking, out-distancing, and of course dodging.

That’s the same as me using the term swiftness to talk about quickness and then getting annoyed with you when you assumed I meant the in game swiftness instead of just using attacks swiftly.

Your newest post contradicts your statement though. Your statement about the lack of counter play sounds silly now. It made more sense when it sounded like you said dodge was the only counter play, but now that I’ve listed 7 off the top of my head it sounds more like a L2P issue. Unless you genuinely mean that the 7+ counter plays to this skill are not viable even with skilled players.

It’s not really equivalent. Avoidance is a different in-combat tactic compared to blocking/invuln, which are not as readily available to certain professions. Your approach completely changes when you are dodging/LoS/outrange, because more often than not these actions interrupt your damage more so than blind/blocking/invuln, with exceptions being given to extremely long skills like shield stance, but even those can be terminated on command.

You’ve listed 7 off the top of your head that apply to every single-packet skill in the game that isn’t unblockable or that cleanses conditions upon activation. By that logic all of those skills have viable counterplay, but there are plenty more factors to consider even with other one-hit application skills; Moa lacks these other factors aside from the 5th skill and its recharge as an elite skill.

Why did you say dodge was the only counter play then? You just said dodge doesn’t encompass blocks and invulns so you’re basically saying there’s more counter play to it besides dodging, which contradicts your original statement.

This is sounding more like there’s a ton of counter play to this skill even though its nor what you originally stated. On top of that it sounds like semantics are increasingly important as the discussion goes on, especially when we are using precise terms.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Lux.7169:

sorrow.2364:

Lux.7169:

Dodging isn’t the only counter play. As was mentioned earlier its a telegraphed skill that is not difficult to interrupt and you can LoS obstruct or you can blind the Mesmer. Dodging is just one of the several counter plays, not the only one.

Please, avoid to spread misinformation.
The Moa Morph animation is extremely hard to read.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cqTJ2RdjJg

There is no telegraph at all. It is just an average, anonymous, pinky mesmer skill.

That’s extremely easy for me to read. Everyone I PvP with would have no problem dodging or interrupting it because of the animation.

I could distinguish that from the Mesmer heals from the clone activations from the auto attacks extremely easily and so can all the other top players and mediocre players if they knew what to look for.

I will be home and online all night if you want to duel and try to land that on me.

Lol duel. What about a nice fight involving asuras, minion mancers and a spirit ranger or two?

You said it’s an anonymous pinky animation saying I was wrong about it being telegraphed. If that’s the case then come land it on me. You’re the one who said I am spreading misinformation by saying it is readable and easy to counter. Put your money where your mouth is because I am game to prove my point in-game.

Once I tell you it’s avoidable you just bring more variables into the equation. Ican easily avoid it with AI around but then you will tell me to do it while you are in stealth and then while I am immobilized and then when I am dazed. Guess what, it is still very possible to avoid and country play without too much difficulty. Yes you can counter the counter play but guess where that leaves us? Yomi. Mind-games. Competitive PvP.

Lux.7169:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Lux.7169:

sorrow.2364:

Lux.7169:

Dodging isn’t the only counter play. As was mentioned earlier its a telegraphed skill that is not difficult to interrupt and you can LoS obstruct or you can blind the Mesmer. Dodging is just one of the several counter plays, not the only one.

Please, avoid to spread misinformation.
The Moa Morph animation is extremely hard to read.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cqTJ2RdjJg

There is no telegraph at all. It is just an average, anonymous, pinky mesmer skill.

That’s extremely easy for me to read. Everyone I PvP with would have no problem dodging or interrupting it because of the animation.

I could distinguish that from the Mesmer heals from the clone activations from the auto attacks extremely easily and so can all the other top players and mediocre players if they knew what to look for.

I will be home and online all night if you want to duel and try to land that on me.

Lol duel. What about a nice fight involving asuras, minion mancers and a spirit ranger or two?

You said it’s an anonymous pinky animation saying I was wrong about it being telegraphed. If that’s the case then come land it on me. You’re the one who said I am spreading misinformation by saying it is readable and easy to counter. Put your money where your mouth is because I am game to prove my point in-game.

Once I tell you it’s avoidable you just bring more variables into the equation. Ican easily avoid it with AI around but then you will tell me to do it while you are in stealth and then while I am immobilized and then when I am dazed. Guess what, it is still very possible to avoid and country play without too much difficulty. Yes you can counter the counter play but guess where that leaves us? Yomi. Mind-games. Competitive PvP.

That was actually someone else, I just jumped into the discussion with that reply involving spirit rangers (Everything involves them nowdays). Anyhow, evading moa in a group fight is greatly a matter of luck. Most mesmers throw it from stealth so yah, you either evade it or not. I don’t think the skill would be very popular if it was truly possible to reliably evade it. It would be a really bad skill.
Also, builds that can spam dodge have ofc better chance of evading it.

Its fine you are a top pvp player, but I dont think the average player can dodge this skill reliably while there is action happening.

Malediktus.9250:

Its fine you are a top pvp player, but I dont think the average player can dodge this skill reliably while there is action happening.

So you want competitive PvP to be balanced around casuals?

You realize that what you’re asking opens the door for more of this, right?

Lux.7169:

That’s extremely easy for me to read. Everyone I PvP with would have no problem dodging or interrupting it because of the animation.

I could distinguish that from the Mesmer heals from the clone activations from the auto attacks extremely easily and so can all the other top players and mediocre players if they knew what to look for.

I will be home and online all night if you want to duel and try to land that on me.

You are making pointless claims.

Moa Morph is not easy to read. Skills like Entangle (ranger clearly jumping in the air), Ether Feast (clear blue aura which is in contrast with the pinkiness of mesmer), Doom (clear reaper animation over the Necro’s head) or Signet of Rage (clear signer simbol above warrior’s head) are easy to read skills.

While you’re fighting a Mesmer, you’re fighting with at least 3 pinky AI entities and, of course, the mesmer himself, who has also the ability to stealth and cast Moa Morph while invisible. If you add this to the fact that PvP is overcrowded by Asura-rats, whose model (and animations) are even smaller, it is extremely hard to read that pink aura that telegraphs a Moa Morph coming.

The situation is even worse when you are fighting on a node against multiple players. In that case, reading Moa Morph is extremely hard because you don’t have only to look for the real mesmer among the clones (it happens that sometimes you target the wrong mesmer after he stealths), but you have also to pay attention to the other enemies animations and Moa Morph doesn’t clearly jump to your eyes.

If the aura was green, yellow or any other color that has contrast with the pink theme of the Mesmer (like Ether Feast), then I would agree that Moa Morph is easy to read.

You can claim that you can read Moa Morph as much as you want, but when making comparisons to some other skills, Moa Morph is quite hard to notice and in most cases, the animation fades between butterflies and pinkiness.

Come land it on me then. I will be home in 2 hours.

I see it as a L2P issue. I hear people telling me its too easy to land and to avoid it you basically have to be lucky. I think that’s the wrong way to prove your point. Why not just roll a mes log on and Moa me then post how Aphro is a scrub who can’t rupt or dodge Moa. I don’t care if you have 3 clones and stun me or stealth to cast it, I will still avoid it.

I mean you can continue posting about how it’s too hard for people to reliably avoid all you want… But good players seem to defy that logic. You don’t have to jump in the air or throw your arm up to have a telegraphed skill.

I am driving home now. You can add me in game and ill add you when I get home.

Lux.7169:

Come land it on me then. I will be home in 2 hours.

I see it as a L2P issue. I hear people telling me its too easy to land and to avoid it you basically have to be lucky. I think that’s the wrong way to prove your point. Why not just roll a mes log on and Moa me then post how Aphro is a scrub who can’t rupt or dodge Moa. I don’t care if you have 3 clones and stun me or stealth to cast it, I will still avoid it.

I mean you can continue posting about how it’s too hard for people to reliably avoid all you want… But good players seem to defy that logic. You don’t have to jump in the air or throw your arm up to have a telegraphed skill.

I am driving home now. You can add me in game and ill add you when I get home.

I’m in Europe, it’s late night here.

I won’t be there when you are home and I’ll tell you this again.
Trying to land a Moa in a 1vs1 staged situation when you are expecting Moa the whole time won’t prove your point.

Many arguments has been brought to prove you why Moa isn’t as telegraphed as you’re claiming it to be, such as:

• Aura color blends with the Mesmer theme
• Aura dimension is small on smaller character models (asuras)
• Mesmer movement isn’t particulary emphatic
• No icon shows up during the cast time above mesmer’s head
• It can be casted while stealthed

All your arguments were “come at me and let’s do a 1vs1 with me trying to dodge a skill I surely know it will come”.

You should realize that a person’s experience (yours) isn’t a valid argument, while logical reasoning and factual considerations are.
I can come here and claim to have magic powers because I know some card tricks, but that doesn’t mean that I’m saying the truth.

Ok let’s do it 4v4 I don’t care tomorrow when you wake up. I have an eu account.

sorrow.2364:

Lux.7169:

Come land it on me then. I will be home in 2 hours.

I see it as a L2P issue. I hear people telling me its too easy to land and to avoid it you basically have to be lucky. I think that’s the wrong way to prove your point. Why not just roll a mes log on and Moa me then post how Aphro is a scrub who can’t rupt or dodge Moa. I don’t care if you have 3 clones and stun me or stealth to cast it, I will still avoid it.

I mean you can continue posting about how it’s too hard for people to reliably avoid all you want… But good players seem to defy that logic. You don’t have to jump in the air or throw your arm up to have a telegraphed skill.

I am driving home now. You can add me in game and ill add you when I get home.

I’m in Europe, it’s late night here.

I won’t be there when you are home and I’ll tell you this again.
Trying to land a Moa in a 1vs1 staged situation when you are expecting Moa the whole time won’t prove your point.

Many arguments has been brought to prove you why Moa isn’t as telegraphed as you’re claiming it to be, such as:

• Aura color blends with the Mesmer theme
• Aura dimension is small on smaller character models (asuras)
• Mesmer movement isn’t particulary emphatic
• No icon shows up during the cast time above mesmer’s head
• It can be casted while stealthed

All your arguments were “come at me and let’s do a 1vs1 with me trying to dodge a skill I surely know it will come”.

You should realize that a person’s experience (yours) isn’t a valid argument, while logical reasoning and factual considerations are.
I can come here and claim to have magic powers because I know some card tricks, but that doesn’t mean that I’m saying the truth.

In any esport or competitive games, top experienced players streams and opinion are usually taken more seriously than any kind of theorycraftings.

For those of you crying about Moa Morph, especially the one who compared it to the GW1 mesmer. Just stop.

Guild Wars 1 mesmers had a MYRIAD of shutdown skills that were by far more dangerous than moa morph.

Powerblock
Diversion
Blackout (disable all skills for 6 seconds on a much shorter cooldown than moa)
Psychic Instability
Shame
Mistrust
Power Lock
Power Leak
Cry of Frustration
Complicate
Leech Signet
Power Drain
Power Spike
and the list goes on

As long as rangers and necros are dominating the meta with spam I will never not condone a 10 sec CC that can be avoided

Maybe when there is less spam I will agree

“But Mesmers spam clones and shatters and win”

To hit max damage two shatters involving summoning 6 clones and majority of the skills on both weapon sets that’s easily dogeable. your argument is invalid.

Achilles.2197:

For those of you crying about Moa Morph, especially the one who compared it to the GW1 mesmer. Just stop.

Guild Wars 1 mesmers had a MYRIAD of shutdown skills that were by far more dangerous than moa morph.

Powerblock
Diversion
Blackout (disable all skills for 6 seconds on a much shorter cooldown than moa)
Psychic Instability
Shame
Mistrust
Power Lock
Power Leak
Cry of Frustration
Complicate
Leech Signet
Power Drain
Power Spike
and the list goes on

Yup but every single one of those skills could be countered with other skills. Gw2 doesn’t have that type of depth.

What skill exists that prevents you from being turned into a moa? Oh wait..dodge! Its the answer to every thing in this game.

Aza.2105:

What skill exists that prevents you from being turned into a moa?

Blind, Block, Daze, Fear, Launch, Pull, Push, Knockdown, Stun, Float, Line of Sight and Sink… oh yeah and as you mentioned. Dodge.

Achilles.2197:

For those of you crying about Moa Morph, especially the one who compared it to the GW1 mesmer. Just stop.

Guild Wars 1 mesmers had a MYRIAD of shutdown skills that were by far more dangerous than moa morph.

Powerblock
Diversion
Blackout (disable all skills for 6 seconds on a much shorter cooldown than moa)
Psychic Instability
Shame
Mistrust
Power Lock
Power Leak
Cry of Frustration
Complicate
Leech Signet
Power Drain
Power Spike
and the list goes on

There is quite a difference between GW1 mesmer and GW2 mesmer.

First off, GW1 Mesmer actually took skills and timing to get those skills landed.
If you just used Powerblock without interrupting a skill, then that skill did nothing at all. Same applies to all of those interrupt skills you’ve listed, whose effect applied only on a successful interrupt.

Then when mentioning Blackout, which is the most similiar skill to Moa, you forgot to mention that it disabled your skills too for the whole duration of the enemy’s skill disable.

Also, another important thing you forgot to mention, is that Mesmer in GW1 covered only the control role. Once you met one Mesmer, you can expect that he will use those skills. The counterplay of those skills, also is the same (fake the casting or remove the hex).

On the GW2 mesmer, the situation is completely different.

Poplolita.2638:

In any esport or competitive games, top experienced players streams and opinion are usually taken more seriously than any kind of theorycraftings.

Top player’s opinion are as biased as community opinion, as long as they are human beings.
Theorycrafting, on the other hand, if made right, is unbiased since it relies on math-like approach (logic), not on player’s feel.

sorrow.2364:

Why are you telling me what the GW1 mesmer did when I clearly already know that?

Mesmers are still control, they just don’t shut down opponents like they used to. However, in a group setting they still play control. In WvW it’s the glamour mesmer that’s useful to it’s team, not DPS. No, they can’t interrupt and disable as much as they used to, but their role never changed.

Blackout disabling the mesmer’s skills was irrelevant. I fused for the most part in Gw1, and having blackout hit me (or Powerblock, for that matter) after using fuse served it’s purpose, trust me.

Not to mention the gimmick spike build mesmers could use with PI/wastrels/assassin skills.

Not really a huge problem…although i admit it makes me want to murder the mesmer..

I think your right. It does need to be taken out, and exchanged with another skill. Polymorph, it turns you into a chicken. A big chicken, and you get all these skills, so you aren’t like completely helpless and can still contribute, fight, or run. You know, that would be a pretty good skill.

U moa bro?…

I think it’s fine as an elite (and I don’t play mesmer).

Achilles.2197:

Why are you telling me what the GW1 mesmer did when I clearly already know that?

Mesmers are still control, they just don’t shut down opponents like they used to. However, in a group setting they still play control. In WvW it’s the glamour mesmer that’s useful to it’s team, not DPS. No, they can’t interrupt and disable as much as they used to, but their role never changed.

Blackout disabling the mesmer’s skills was irrelevant. I fused for the most part in Gw1, and having blackout hit me (or Powerblock, for that matter) after using fuse served it’s purpose, trust me.

Not to mention the gimmick spike build mesmers could use with PI/wastrels/assassin skills.

Then if you clearly know what the old mesmer did, then you are manipulating the informations in order to prove a spoiled point.

Mesmer in GW2 rarely control, in most situations they deal damage they never deamed back in GW1. The control part is nearly absent compared to the damage part and it is not more relevant compared to other profession control ability.

Blackout disabling mesmer skills is relevant, because it made both players useless for the duration of the skill. I know that Blackout was strong (it didn’t find a great use back in GW1, due to the melee range), but it had an opportunity cost you had to face with. Moa Morph is quite similiar to blackout, but it has no opportunity cost at all and can be casted at 1200 range.

Power Block is also similiar to Moa Morph, but it needs the memser to be skilled to catch the interrupt on the right skill. It isn’t shot and forget like Moa. It also had a pretty high energy cost, meaning that you can’t afford to waste the skill.

As far I know, all the spike mesmer builds has been nerfed.

I think what it needs is a more visible animation so you can time your dodges. At the moment it’s game over if you’re hit by Moa.

The same goes for all other skills, btw.

Moa form + stun= hf trying to use stun break.

Jasher.6580:

Aza.2105:

What skill exists that prevents you from being turned into a moa?

Blind, Block, Daze, Fear, Launch, Pull, Push, Knockdown, Stun, Float, Line of Sight and Sink… oh yeah and as you mentioned. Dodge.

None of those are counters.

Lux.7169:

Why did you say dodge was the only counter play then? You just said dodge doesn’t encompass blocks and invulns so you’re basically saying there’s more counter play to it besides dodging, which contradicts your original statement.

This is sounding more like there’s a ton of counter play to this skill even though its nor what you originally stated. On top of that it sounds like semantics are increasingly important as the discussion goes on, especially when we are using precise terms.

I’m going back and reading my initial post and loling at myself. I would say don’t discuss anything with me when I haven’t slept, but then we’d come across a similar problem of you not knowing when I’ve done so. I do apologize for that and will concede that I wasn’t making any sense.

My whole problem with Moa is its combination of being toxic in a small fight setting while being largely ineffective in a team fight setting. It just seems like they added the skill for fun and then threw in some numbers that really didn’t take into account the fact that you have very little access to counterplay options once it’s landed. I guess some people could say that’s the point with it being an elite skill, but I don’t really think that’s justification. Skills should have fun (and at least marginally effective) counterplay even after you’ve landed them.

Daishi.6027:

As long as rangers and necros are dominating the meta with spam I will never not condone a 10 sec CC that can be avoided

Maybe when there is less spam I will agree

“But Mesmers spam clones and shatters and win”

To hit max damage two shatters involving summoning 6 clones and majority of the skills on both weapon sets that’s easily dogeable. your argument is invalid.

I had a feeling something like that was going to appear in your post. xD

Aza.2105:

Jasher.6580:

Aza.2105:

What skill exists that prevents you from being turned into a moa?

Blind, Block, Daze, Fear, Launch, Pull, Push, Knockdown, Stun, Float, Line of Sight and Sink… oh yeah and as you mentioned. Dodge.

None of those are counters.

You are bad. Moa is fine.