Nerf Celestial Already
So here are the FACTS:
-Before April 2014 : same traits + different amulet = Ele is considered UP
-After April 2014 : same traits + CELESTIAL = Ele is considered OP
It is NOT just the amulet, but also the runes and sigil changes done at same time.
See my previous post in this thread. I gave good suggestions what should be done to a large number of different runes, sigils and might stacking. Before the changes almost nobody was using Strength or Hoelbrak runes in this game. The patch made their price skyrocket and they are still very expensive, because they are too good in both pve/WvWvW and spvp/tpvp.
We have 50+ sigils and 50+ runes in this game. Yet only less than 10 of them are actually used by the viable and common builds. Why is that? Don’t you see any problem that almost everybody uses the exactly same sigils and runes, not just the amulet?
There was also considerable changes in the April 2014 patch for all professions affecting both skills and traits:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/April_2014
Deniara / Ayna – I want the original WvWvW maps back – Desolation [EU]
(edited by Deniara Devious.3948)
So you think the nerfs need to happen specifically to the d/d weaponset. Okay here goes
- Burning speed-no longer an evade, one of their hardest hitting skills on this weaponset should be interruptable barring them having stability or something of the sort.
- Frozen Burst- No longer a blast finisher
- Cone of Cold-Reduced the amount of healing done with this skill
- Drakes Breath- Reduced the burning duration (again.)
- Elemental shielding- Increase the duration to 10s but move it up to master tier. This may affect staff eles but nowhere near as much as d/d eles.
The first two of those changes are what brought ele from the bottom tier to the top. If you reverse them and nerf eles more, they will be even worse than before.
About burning speed, I believe whirlwind attack is even more powerful yet no one cries about it. You can still abuse walls with it despite nerfs to all fire trail skills. And burning speed is easily dodgeable, unlike whirlwind attack from point blank.
Your suggestion will just overnerf that weapon set, anet should shave gradually (obviously more often than now) instead of doing knee jerk nerfs.
Actually before you can say what brought eles up from garbage tier you need to know why they were sent there (ie nerfs that sent them to bottom tier), which was a massive nerf to signet of restoration and the over the top nerf to cleansing water which gave it an icd (remove a condition when applying regeneration to yourself). Burning speed and ftozen burst were never on anyones radar. Also while whirlwind attack can still abuse walls guess how many gs warriors are in PvP. Just saying.
You want FACTS, well as you’ve said the ele was considered “unviable” by the community before the April patch, the ele had still access to those traits now deemed OP, we had elemental attunement and shielding and condi clear was not that way worst compared to now,we had already soothing wave adept, it wasn’t that bad really even with the ICD on cleansing water GM…still ele was considered UP.
Thats a huge buff for Ele vs Condi. A lot of Ele’s said they would get facerolled by condis, where now it’s not as big a deal.
Soothing Wave (gain regen if crit)
would have proc’d Cleansing Water’s 5s icd
(cure condition when granting regen)
completely negating the trait, Elemental Attunement
(Water Attunement grants regeneration)
Which could also ruin any cantrip’s casted.
(gives regen). Or vice-versa.
The change of 5s icd from Cleansing Water to 0 was a huge buff for the Ele. The Celestial buff on top of it made D/D meta.
They’re not necessarily OP in 1v1 because they can be beaten. They’re not OP in 2v2 because I’ve seen some very close matchups. In TPvP where sustains, mobility, team cleanses; team synchronization governs a win, there isn’t a hard counter other than out rotating them. Of which Abjured will do better because they’re that good.
Cele takes the Build out of Build Wars 2.
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
(edited by Saiyan.1704)
Ele is the strongest 1v1 class in the game, how are they not overpowered in 1v1?
Burning Speed evade frames and Frozen Burst blast didn’t affect much..
The introduction of Celestial Stats, and the nerf revert to Cleansing Water, that pretty much launched Ele from garbo tier to SS Tier. It had sweet little to do with Burning Speed or Frozen Burst changes.
Don’t forget the roll back on the 50% nerf to Signet of Restoration.
Those same traits received no buff whatsoever with the patch. Now they’re suddenly considered OP? HOW?
When the whole package isn’t strong, aspects of it which may be too strong are overlooked.
I would agree 100% with you, if teams would stack zerker/soldier/valk/cleric D/D with the same trait set up and would obtain the same results in every single instance …
See my post about the amulet system problem. Celestial is the closest to a proper stat balance for a hybrid. If there was something else which had a proper stat balance (e.g. not 900 toughness and no vitality), you’d see it too. But there isn’t.
Kirrena Rosenkreutz
Step one, Increase cast time to 3/4 for grasping grab or w/e it’s called, indirect nerf to DD protection chaining, does not affect other classes nor elemental shielding.
step two, decrease the duration of boon received by teamate by 50% which makes it 3 seconds instead of 6. decrease DD’s team support ability, too much support for the sustain it has.
step 3, reverse frozen aura buff.
Voila
Ok, I’ve watched todays EU ESL games and I can’t help to wonder why d/d eles where not the most often picked build if they are so overpowered. Instead, every game had 2 thieves and 2 engineers.
Streamed matches had:
16 x elementalists (8 x staff, 8 x d/d)
16 x engineers
14 x guardians (2 x AH)
5 x mesmers
4 x necromancers
0 x rangers
16 x thieves
9 x warriors
Doesn’t look abused as much as other builds like rifle engie, dps guardian or d/p thief.
Celestial is not op. 5 out of 8 classes are not even viable using celestial.
April patch had: burning speed getting evade, frozen burst got blast finisher, hoelbrak rework, buff to sigil of doom, etc.
Remove the amulet because of 2/3 builds is idiot. What if they remove zerker amulet because almost all thieves, mesmers, guardians and rangers are using it?
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
You focus on D/D, because you lose to it quite frequently.
It requires more skills to avoid its dmg..it’s not a matter of simply walk away from it like you can do with staff, have a staff ele that kills people and suddenly staff ele becomes OP too…oh wait that guy @Lordrosicky was complaining already about staff eles, saying how braindead were and how hard was to avoid their attacks.
MMO Rule n1= as long as it doesn’t kill me, it’s not OP
About your idea that nerfing celestial is not the way to go.
You have 6 profession with a viable zerker build, but none of them get stacked, you have 2 professions that use celestial, but only one of them can be stacked with greater success rate.
You already can’t use celestial as you’ve stated so I don’t see how the nerfing of this amulet would hurt your profession and the other 5, as told already by the OP on page 1, the problem is stacking of celestial builds, not a specific profession alone.
But pls feel free to prove me wrong, find me a successful team that runs double of anything but not celestial..gl
(edited by Supreme.3164)
Ok, I’ve watched todays EU ESL games and I can’t help to wonder why d/d eles where not the most often picked build if they are so overpowered. Instead, every game had 2 thieves and 2 engineers.
Streamed matches had:
16 x elementalists (8 x staff, 8 x d/d)
16 x engineers
14 x guardians (2 x AH)
5 x mesmers
4 x necromancers
0 x rangers
16 x thieves
9 x warriorsDoesn’t look abused as much as other builds like rifle engie, dps guardian or d/p thief.
That’s not abuse. That’s popularity.
I would never run two thieves in a Tournament match, but that’s just me.
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
Why nerf Hoelbrak runes and Doom sigil?
Both are fine and not overpowered.
Nerf them and another rune will be too OP.
Same with sigil.
Then what? Nerf them too?
Dead end, locked circle of endless nerfs.
Power nerf didn’t hit warrior much.
But Nerf on meless weapon damage did.
I’m surprised that Anet does nerf Warrior’s skill damage, while Guardian stays untouched. While it’s no rocket science that Guardian has much higher self sustain and burst than Warrior.
Did I ever tell you, the definition, of Insanity?
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
You focus on D/D, because you lose to it quite frequently.
It requires more skills to avoid its dmg..it’s not a matter of simply walk away from it like you can do with staff, have a staff ele that kills people and suddenly staff ele becomes OP too…oh wait that guy @Lordrosicky was complaining already about staff eles, saying how braindead were and how hard was to avoid their attacks.*MMO Rule n1= as long as it doesn’t kill me, it’s not OP"
About your idea that nerfing celestial is not the way to go.
You have 6 profession with a viable zerker build, but none of them get stacked, you have 2 professions that use celestial, but only one of them can be stacked with greater success rate.You already can’t use celestial as you’ve stated so I don’t see how the nerfing of this amulet would hurt your profession and the other 5, as told already by the OP on page 1, the problem is stacking of celestial builds, not a specific profession alone.
But pls feel free to prove me wrong, find me a successful team that runs double of anything but not celestial..gl
I main celestial elementalist. What are you talking about? Stop making assumpions about things you have 0 knowledge about.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
Why nerf Hoelbrak runes and Doom sigil?
Both are fine and not overpowered.
Nerf them and another rune will be too OP.
Same with sigil.
Then what? Nerf them too?
Dead end, locked circle of endless nerfs.Power nerf didn’t hit warrior much.
But Nerf on meless weapon damage did.
I’m surprised that Anet does nerf Warrior’s skill damage, while Guardian stays untouched. While it’s no rocket science that Guardian has much higher self sustain and burst than Warrior.
Your first argument makes no sense. By that logic nothing in the game should ever be nerfed or buffed because something else will become the new “op” skill.
Other runes don’t need a nerf because they are not as strong as hoelbrak. For spvp hoelbrak is one of the most used if not the most used rune. It is also one of the top runes for wvw. The price of hoelbrak in the trading post is a good signal of how strong it is. Most runes have the same supply but with different demands. Hoelbrak is always in the top 3 most expensive ones.
Hoelbrak gives a lot of offensive power via power+ might duration + source of might and also is one of the most defensive runes in the game with -20% condi duration.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
dont nerf ele its fine and makes fun
dont nerf engineer its fine and makes fun
dont nerf celestial amulet because u cant call “a balanced” amulet its unbalanced
OR
i have a good solution
buff other amulets a little
OR
REMOVE the " all stat in one amulet kitten "
OR
Make stats: 1/3 amulet 1/3 ring 1/3 accessorie and than remove all celestial stats or make only 1/3 or 2/3 can be celestial.
Now u can Mix your stats = all is fine and no one need celestial or can equip it = all Happy = friede freude Eierkuchen -_-
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
Why nerf Hoelbrak runes and Doom sigil?
Both are fine and not overpowered.
Nerf them and another rune will be too OP.
Same with sigil.
Then what? Nerf them too?
Dead end, locked circle of endless nerfs.Power nerf didn’t hit warrior much.
But Nerf on meless weapon damage did.
I’m surprised that Anet does nerf Warrior’s skill damage, while Guardian stays untouched. While it’s no rocket science that Guardian has much higher self sustain and burst than Warrior.Your first argument makes no sense. By that logic nothing in the game should ever be nerfed or buffed because something else will become the new “op” skill.
I can answer this one.
To reiterate what Tao is saying, certain aspects of the game may seem “op” or “inbalanced” for a reason. It’s part of the game’s PvP design. See this video.
http://qqmore.net/video-guide-why-is-guild-wars-2-unbalanced/
How many threads have you seen that a player listed something as OP? Is it truly OP, or is there a way to overcome the problem?
My repost from earlier.
I understamd this game is purposely imbalanced, it promotes creative rotational play, interesting team compositions, to beat said comp. The issue I have is, 1) There’s hardly any creative play, or team comp, to face this team . 2) I’m a strong believer in that win percentage makes the best team, not Team A counters Team B, so Team A is best in game.
Even if there was a counter comp for The Abjured, you need to be good enough to beat every other non Celestial team composition class. You may have a 90%+ win rate vs Abjured and a 60% win rate vs everyone else. While the Abjured has a 90%+ win rate across the board… against every single comp they come across.
Celestial Comps are destined to make the best Conquest Teams. That’s what i’m not ok with.
Celestial Amulet by itself is fine. The issue is there’s no big counter plays, or many build advantages, you could use to overcome a cele Engi, War, 2x Ele team.
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
Why nerf Hoelbrak runes and Doom sigil?
Both are fine and not overpowered.
Nerf them and another rune will be too OP.
Same with sigil.
Then what? Nerf them too?
Dead end, locked circle of endless nerfs.Power nerf didn’t hit warrior much.
But Nerf on meless weapon damage did.
I’m surprised that Anet does nerf Warrior’s skill damage, while Guardian stays untouched. While it’s no rocket science that Guardian has much higher self sustain and burst than Warrior.Your first argument makes no sense. By that logic nothing in the game should ever be nerfed or buffed because something else will become the new “op” skill.
Other runes don’t need a nerf because they are not as strong as hoelbrak. For spvp hoelbrak is one of the most used if not the most used rune. It is also one of the top runes for wvw. The price of hoelbrak in the trading post is a good signal of how strong it is. Most runes have the same supply but with different demands. Hoelbrak is always in the top 3 most expensive ones.
Hoelbrak gives a lot of offensive power via power+ might duration + source of might and also is one of the most defensive runes in the game with -20% condi duration.
Exactly to what level you want to nerf d/d ele?
You only ever talk of nerfs, but never explain why you want these nerfs
About your idea that nerfing celestial is not the way to go.
You have 6 profession with a viable zerker build, but none of them get stacked, you have 2 professions that use celestial, but only one of them can be stacked with greater success rate.
At least 3 professions use celestial and 2, if not 3, of them can be stacked with success. EU teams don’t even stack eles and if they do it’s probably d/d+staff, not sure how it is with NA. When I play solo ranked games, most often I face engineers, not eles.
Also, zerker builds won’t be used with great success as long as thieves reign supreme.
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
Why nerf Hoelbrak runes and Doom sigil?
Both are fine and not overpowered.
Nerf them and another rune will be too OP.
Same with sigil.
Then what? Nerf them too?
Dead end, locked circle of endless nerfs.Power nerf didn’t hit warrior much.
But Nerf on meless weapon damage did.
I’m surprised that Anet does nerf Warrior’s skill damage, while Guardian stays untouched. While it’s no rocket science that Guardian has much higher self sustain and burst than Warrior.Your first argument makes no sense. By that logic nothing in the game should ever be nerfed or buffed because something else will become the new “op” skill.
Other runes don’t need a nerf because they are not as strong as hoelbrak. For spvp hoelbrak is one of the most used if not the most used rune. It is also one of the top runes for wvw. The price of hoelbrak in the trading post is a good signal of how strong it is. Most runes have the same supply but with different demands. Hoelbrak is always in the top 3 most expensive ones.
Hoelbrak gives a lot of offensive power via power+ might duration + source of might and also is one of the most defensive runes in the game with -20% condi duration.
Exactly to what level you want to nerf d/d ele?
You only ever talk of nerfs, but never explain why you want these nerfs
To the same lvl as staff ele that is not using renewing stamina is right now.
Explanation? d/d is one of the top 1v1 node fighters, one of the best mobility, survives almost like staff but has a way easier time landing dmg.
Do you really preffer them removing celestial amulet than nerfing ele? I love celestial amulet would rather see a nerf to d/d skills than completely remove it.
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
xDudisx.5914
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
Exactly to what level you want to nerf d/d ele?
To the same lvl as staff ele that is not using renewing stamina is right now.
You basically want the D/D to be reduced to staff ele levels, where its dmg can be easily avoided/negated, but the only reason D/D weapon set even exist for eles…is to 1vs1 people more reliably than anything else.
Reason why people don’t complain about scepter or staff ele is because both build lose 1vs1 to all meta builds ate equal skill level.
-One of the best mobility
-survives almost like staff
-has a way easier time to landing dmg
But ofc..what do you expect? I’m a light armour class fighting toe to toe with people ^^
Dunno at this point..do you want a d/d ele to play like a thief maybe? or med guardian?….or maybe, you just want a glorified heal bot that acts more like a free kill?
(edited by Supreme.3164)
Reason why people don’t complain about scepter or staff ele is because both build lose 1vs1 to all meta builds ate equal skill level.
nah, people don’t take scepter, because they get farmed by thieves.
btw what level do you want to nerf DD to?
If all professions using celestial amulet are OP then nerf the common denominator.
I want d/d ele to a level where:
-it can’t be stacked with success, on the contrary a team is more likely to lose if more than one ele in the team
-It has a harder time in being effective, but remains fun and rewarding to use
easy stuff really, but nerfs on things like : elemental attunement, cleansing water would kill the profession in its entirety
The low hp is not a big deal because how fast you can regen the hp and how you can mitigate dmg are more important. Take old bunker shout guardian as example. Their low hp didn’t stop them from been one of the most tankiest builds around.
The light armor becomes almost a medium armor most of the time becuase of stone flesh minor trait combined with lingering elements.
If by fighting toe to toe you mean kill fast almost all non meta builds all the time in 1v1
and rarery losing even for most meta builds…..
What other build in the game has that mobility, is great node fighter, can fight of node, can stale fights if want, is good in team fights?
Fearmancers have no good mobility other than flesh wurm and 1 teleport towards the target.
Mesmer+thives have good mobility but they cant hold nodes.
Rangers… are rangers.
Medi guard has low mobility. If they go bunker they have no dmg and low mobility.
Ele if go staff loses a lot of the mobility. If goes sceper focus loses mobility and is not as strong as d/d.
Shoutbow is not even close to d/d dmg.
Cele rifle engi are one of the only other problematic builds. But still less condi clear and mobility than d/d ele.
If all professions using celestial amulet are OP then nerf the common denominator.
The thing is 5 professions using celestial are no even close to be op. Most of them can’t even make a “viable” build with celestial. So clearly celestial amulet is not a common denominator.
@pvp specialist
Do you have more new questions, suggestions, ideas, etc..? Talk only about ele is getting repetitive. What is your opinion about the state of d/d ele?
Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]
(edited by xDudisx.5914)
The low hp is not a big deal because how fast you can regen the hp and how you can mitigate dmg are more important. Take old bunker shout guardian as example. Their low hp didn’t stop them from been one of the most tankiest builds around.
The light armor becomes almost a medium armor most of the time becuase of stone flesh minor trait combined with lingering elements.
If by fighting toe to toe you mean kill fast almost all non meta builds all the time in 1v1
and rarery losing even for most meta builds…..What other build in the game has that mobility, is great node fighter, can fight of node, can stale fights if want, is good in team fights?
Fearmancers have no good mobility other than flesh wurm and 1 teleport towards the target.
Mesmer+thives have good mobility but they cant hold nodes.
Rangers… are rangers.
Medi guard has low mobility. If they go bunker they have no dmg and low mobility.
Ele if go staff loses a lot of the mobility. If goes sceper focus loses mobility and is not as strong as d/d.
Shoutbow is not even close to d/d dmg.
Cele rifle engi are one of the only other problematic builds. But still less condi clear and mobility than d/d ele.
At equal skill level between 2 professions, only the best player should win and I accept at 100% any change that bring to that, what I can’t accept is to have somebody lose by default regardless of the skill level.
Your proposed changes would make an ele lose at 100% even when outplaying the opponent.
Being at mele range means that the biggest threat must come from you being at mele, you can’t simply kill all mele pressure from d/d and expect it to remain viable.
What you can do is to make this pressure more skill/direct based, this to divide the bad from the good, so decrease condi pressure but increase direct dmg that takes skill to land, decrease passive defense but increase active defense …this is balance
To reiterate what Tao is saying, certain aspects of the game may seem “op” or “inbalanced” for a reason. It’s part of the game’s PvP design. See this video.
http://qqmore.net/video-guide-why-is-guild-wars-2-unbalanced/
Here’s a better version, though not GW2 specific: Extra Credits: Perfect Imbalance
The QQmore.net video does a poor job of applying what Extra Credits taught. Namely, if one build or strategy is the best in all situations, and it’s still the best after players are given time to look for alternatives, then it’s probably overpowered and needs toned down. That’s what we’re seeing with cele d/d ele and cele rfile engi.
If we had a “perfect imbalance” situation, then you would see a variety of different builds and team compositions at the highest levels of play. You wouldn’t see one set of builds in practically every team.
Kirrena Rosenkreutz
To reiterate what Tao is saying, certain aspects of the game may seem “op” or “inbalanced” for a reason. It’s part of the game’s PvP design. See this video.
http://qqmore.net/video-guide-why-is-guild-wars-2-unbalanced/Here’s a better version, though not GW2 specific: Extra Credits: Perfect Imbalance
The QQmore.net video does a poor job of applying what Extra Credits taught. Namely, if one build or strategy is the best in all situations, and it’s still the best after players are given time to look for alternatives, then it’s probably overpowered and needs toned down. That’s what we’re seeing with cele d/d ele and cele rfile engi.
If we had a “perfect imbalance” situation, then you would see a variety of different builds and team compositions at the highest levels of play. You wouldn’t see one set of builds in practically every team.
They should have listened to TOP GW1 players when the game was in development, go on gw2guruforum and look for yourself. If they would had, by now each profession would have 4-5 build viables for high level pvp
To reiterate what Tao is saying, certain aspects of the game may seem “op” or “inbalanced” for a reason. It’s part of the game’s PvP design. See this video.
http://qqmore.net/video-guide-why-is-guild-wars-2-unbalanced/Here’s a better version, though not GW2 specific: Extra Credits: Perfect Imbalance
The QQmore.net video does a poor job of applying what Extra Credits taught. Namely, if one build or strategy is the best in all situations, and it’s still the best after players are given time to look for alternatives, then it’s probably overpowered and needs toned down. That’s what we’re seeing with cele d/d ele and cele rfile engi.
If we had a “perfect imbalance” situation, then you would see a variety of different builds and team compositions at the highest levels of play. You wouldn’t see one set of builds in practically every team.
Dude that video is lots better! Thanks for the post.
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
The solution is nerf d/d weapon skills or traits or hoelbrak/sigilf of doom etc..
And staff ele, rifle engie and shoutbow weapon skills and traits. Why are you so focused on one celestial build when all of them are imbalanced? Celestial engi is the most often used build along with d/p thief and dps guardian.
Staff ele is fine. It acts more like a bunker/support than anything else. Most of its dmg can be avoided by people steping out of the red circle…
I am focusing in d/d ele because in the beggining of the topic we were discussing engi. And then pvp specialist asked a question about ele. When everyone was talking about engi I was talking about nerf IP, gear shield ,etc.. Also nerfs for heolbrak or doom would be universal and hit war/engi too.
Warrior got hit the most from the might nerf. They also go addrenaline nerf. A small tweak at healing shout trait reducing base healing and increasing the scaling with healing power would be enough.
You focus on D/D, because you lose to it quite frequently.
It requires more skills to avoid its dmg..it’s not a matter of simply walk away from it like you can do with staff, have a staff ele that kills people and suddenly staff ele becomes OP too…oh wait that guy @Lordrosicky was complaining already about staff eles, saying how braindead were and how hard was to avoid their attacks.*MMO Rule n1= as long as it doesn’t kill me, it’s not OP"
About your idea that nerfing celestial is not the way to go.
You have 6 profession with a viable zerker build, but none of them get stacked, you have 2 professions that use celestial, but only one of them can be stacked with greater success rate.You already can’t use celestial as you’ve stated so I don’t see how the nerfing of this amulet would hurt your profession and the other 5, as told already by the OP on page 1, the problem is stacking of celestial builds, not a specific profession alone.
But pls feel free to prove me wrong, find me a successful team that runs double of anything but not celestial..gl
I main celestial elementalist. What are you talking about? Stop making assumpions about things you have 0 knowledge about.
CCCCCCCOOOOMMMBOOOO BREAAAAKKERRRRR!!!!
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I want d/d ele to a level where:
-it can’t be stacked with success, on the contrary a team is more likely to lose if more than one ele in the team
-It has a harder time in being effective, but remains fun and rewarding to use
easy stuff really, but nerfs on things like : elemental attunement, cleansing water would kill the profession in its entirety
And by what changes will bring ele to the level you listed?
I’ll list them again:
-Increased CD on drake’s breath by 5s
-elemental shielding swap with geomancer freedom
-magnetic grasp animation increased from1/2s to 3/4s
-wind up animation added to updraft
-wind up animation added to fire grab, angle increased from 40 to 100 degree
-lightning touch angle increased from 40 to 100
-decreased healing on cone of cold, dmg increased by 33%
-rooting removed from churning earth( channelling remains)
-renewing stamina 10s ICD, becomes air adept minor trait
These change would make d/d more fun to play, less threatening at low/average level but awe inspiring when played right, plenty of counterplay to hard hitting skills, the sustain is less pronounced but still there when used right( easier to land weakness ).
Renewing staming may force some eles to go air , or to take sigil of energy, or don’t bother with it all and have less dodges while having some more toughness respect to those eles who go 2 in air to grab the adept minor
..and people can still keep their dear celestial amulet
(edited by Supreme.3164)
The thing is 5 professions using celestial are no even close to be op. Most of them can’t even make a “viable” build with celestial. So clearly celestial amulet is not a common denominator.
Let me rephrase then, if all profession which use celestial amulet are OP then nerf the common denominator. This amulet gives about 20% more stats than others and the cele plague started when it was buffed disproportionately.
Celestial is not overpowered. It slowly gets overpowered by the easy mechanics and crowd-controls providing it time to stack might for bursting down the target.
In essence, a celestial should die easy, but when that celestial disables the oponent with lots of CC, antigame (such as invulnerability), and bunking abilities; then that celestial gets more and more time to stack might and become a big problem.
Celestial is just stats for a mediocre build (not enough damage, not enough bunking, not enough support). What makes the difference is the chance to obtain time with CC and antigame for stacking might.
ArenaNet nerfed might, but that was not the solution. That decision canceled a bit of effect or results, but it did not eliminate the cause. In my opinion there is just too much CC with easy mechanics ingame, allowing people to just “troll” on a point, waiting for might to stack.
Eliminating CC is hard, because players like it, and more CC will be added on expansion. So, I do not know what the solution could be. Eliminating Celestial from PvP could be a possible solution, but again, it is just a mediocre build, basically doing nothing but trolling and surviving long enough to stack might.
Server: Seafarer’s Rest
Celestial is not overpowered. It slowly gets overpowered by the easy mechanics and crowd-controls providing it time to stack might for bursting down the target.
In essence, a celestial should die easy, but when that celestial disables the oponent with lots of CC, antigame (such as invulnerability), and bunking abilities; then that celestial gets more and more time to stack might and become a big problem.
Celestial is just stats for a mediocre build (not enough damage, not enough bunking, not enough support). What makes the difference is the chance to obtain time with CC and antigame for stacking might.
ArenaNet nerfed might, but that was not the solution. That decision canceled a bit of effect or results, but it did not eliminate the cause. In my opinion there is just too much CC with easy mechanics ingame, allowing people to just “troll” on a point, waiting for might to stack.
Eliminating CC is hard, because players like it, and more CC will be added on expansion. So, I do not know what the solution could be. Eliminating Celestial from PvP could be a possible solution, but again, it is just a mediocre build, basically doing nothing but trolling and surviving long enough to stack might.
I disagree with your idea of what Celestial is or should be, that’s not exactly clear. Let me start with saying that my opinion over time has changed and I do think the amulet itself should be shaved down to 400 stats in its respective category, down from 438.
You see ‘Celestials’ as D/D Ele or Shoutbow War, but your descriptions of what those professions are actually doing in a match, ie, rolling around, surviving, stacking might, loafing around in mediocrity, that’s just not how it works.
Celestial Ele and Warrior only have their potential unlocked when the player has really mastered playing aggressively as a cohesive unit with the DPS roamers. Shoutbow Warrior can be a big player in winning fights with properly timed Pin Downs, and D/D Ele Updrafts, Earthquakes, Immobilizes, these just ends lives when combo’d with an Engineer or Necro. Someone playing like you describe has no damage game, no CC game.
For example, Phantaram and I can lock select Warriors/Engineers with weak stunbreaks who get caught without them for up to 12 seconds. And that’s not even the maximum, it’s just Earthquake into Updraft, into Overcharged Shot, into Slick Shoes, none of those abilities with a cooldown over 45 seconds.
Once you start tapping into the wreck-your-face mentality, I don’t know how anyone can call Celestials benign might stackers who troll around the point.
Forum Lord Chaith
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Celestial is not overpowered. It slowly gets overpowered by the easy mechanics and crowd-controls providing it time to stack might for bursting down the target.
In essence, a celestial should die easy, but when that celestial disables the oponent with lots of CC, antigame (such as invulnerability), and bunking abilities; then that celestial gets more and more time to stack might and become a big problem.
Celestial is just stats for a mediocre build (not enough damage, not enough bunking, not enough support). What makes the difference is the chance to obtain time with CC and antigame for stacking might.
ArenaNet nerfed might, but that was not the solution. That decision canceled a bit of effect or results, but it did not eliminate the cause. In my opinion there is just too much CC with easy mechanics ingame, allowing people to just “troll” on a point, waiting for might to stack.
Eliminating CC is hard, because players like it, and more CC will be added on expansion. So, I do not know what the solution could be. Eliminating Celestial from PvP could be a possible solution, but again, it is just a mediocre build, basically doing nothing but trolling and surviving long enough to stack might.
I disagree with your idea of what Celestial is or should be, that’s not exactly clear. Let me start with saying that my opinion over time has changed and I do think the amulet itself should be shaved down to 400 stats in its respective category, down from 438.
You see ‘Celestials’ as D/D Ele or Shoutbow War, but your descriptions of what those professions are actually doing in a match, ie, rolling around, surviving, stacking might, loafing around in mediocrity, that’s just not how it works.
Celestial Ele and Warrior only have their potential unlocked when the player has really mastered playing aggressively as a cohesive unit with the DPS roamers. Shoutbow Warrior can be a big player in winning fights with properly timed Pin Downs, and D/D Ele Updrafts, Earthquakes, Immobilizes, these just ends lives when combo’d with an Engineer or Necro. Someone playing like you describe has no damage game, no CC game.
For example, Phantaram and I can lock select Warriors/Engineers with weak stunbreaks who get caught without them for up to 12 seconds. And that’s not even the maximum, it’s just Earthquake into Updraft, into Overcharged Shot, into Slick Shoes, none of those abilities with a cooldown over 45 seconds.
Once you start tapping into the wreck-your-face mentality, I don’t know how anyone can call Celestials benign might stackers who troll around the point.
Thank you. All you did is just confirm my words. You gave proof that you throw a lot of crowd-control and might stacking with purpose to damage your enemy in the end. It is same meat, different gravy.
Server: Seafarer’s Rest
Thank you. All you did is just confirm my words. You gave proof that you throw a lot of crowd-control and might stacking with purpose to damage your enemy in the end. It is same meat, different gravy.
Engi/Ele throws CC and has the purpose to damage the enemy in the end? You don’t say, well, glad I ended up proving your thesis.
My post was more because you gave the impression that the meta Celestial using builds aren’t overpowered, but rather ‘mediocre’, when they’re often quite competent at 2 roles at least, like control/damage, or support/damage, as well as a minor in the control/support area which is not prominent.
basically doing nothing but trolling and surviving long enough to stack might.
^Except not. The meta Ele/Engi builds especially have way more ability than merely trolling and surviving, that’s a factor into why they are overtuned and your perception is way off.
Forum Lord Chaith
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(edited by Chaith.8256)
Celestial is not overpowered. It slowly gets overpowered by the easy mechanics and crowd-controls providing it time to stack might for bursting down the target.
In essence, a celestial should die easy, but when that celestial disables the oponent with lots of CC, antigame (such as invulnerability), and bunking abilities; then that celestial gets more and more time to stack might and become a big problem.
Celestial is just stats for a mediocre build (not enough damage, not enough bunking, not enough support). What makes the difference is the chance to obtain time with CC and antigame for stacking might.
ArenaNet nerfed might, but that was not the solution. That decision canceled a bit of effect or results, but it did not eliminate the cause. In my opinion there is just too much CC with easy mechanics ingame, allowing people to just “troll” on a point, waiting for might to stack.
Eliminating CC is hard, because players like it, and more CC will be added on expansion. So, I do not know what the solution could be. Eliminating Celestial from PvP could be a possible solution, but again, it is just a mediocre build, basically doing nothing but trolling and surviving long enough to stack might.
I disagree with your idea of what Celestial is or should be, that’s not exactly clear. Let me start with saying that my opinion over time has changed and I do think the amulet itself should be shaved down to 400 stats in its respective category, down from 438.
You see ‘Celestials’ as D/D Ele or Shoutbow War, but your descriptions of what those professions are actually doing in a match, ie, rolling around, surviving, stacking might, loafing around in mediocrity, that’s just not how it works.
Celestial Ele and Warrior only have their potential unlocked when the player has really mastered playing aggressively as a cohesive unit with the DPS roamers. Shoutbow Warrior can be a big player in winning fights with properly timed Pin Downs, and D/D Ele Updrafts, Earthquakes, Immobilizes, these just ends lives when combo’d with an Engineer or Necro. Someone playing like you describe has no damage game, no CC game.
For example, Phantaram and I can lock select Warriors/Engineers with weak stunbreaks who get caught without them for up to 12 seconds. And that’s not even the maximum, it’s just Earthquake into Updraft, into Overcharged Shot, into Slick Shoes, none of those abilities with a cooldown over 45 seconds.
Once you start tapping into the wreck-your-face mentality, I don’t know how anyone can call Celestials benign might stackers who troll around the point.
Glad to see you have the maturity to change your mind on the issue. I hope others have the same maturity.
I agree that changing celestial to 400 per stat seems fine. That is only an 8-9% nerf. Would it be enough? Maybe, maybe not. But it would be a good starting point.
In addition I would reduce the damage from fire/air sigils too, maybe only by 8-10% as a starting point again.
Official winner of solo queue MMR leaderboards – EU
Doom sigil is the most overpowered sigil in the game right now, especially on an ele that should NOT have any access to poison, and having access to poison for that long of a duration/uptime is insane. Doom sigil should be discussed more in this thread.
Doom sigil is the most overpowered sigil in the game right now, especially on an ele that should NOT have any access to poison, and having access to poison for that long of a duration/uptime is insane. Doom sigil should be discussed more in this thread.
Doom’s dodgeable/invuln/blindable, I think it’s not the most overpowered sigil in the game.
Forum Lord Chaith
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I didn’t read the whole 8 pages so I don’t know if this have been stated already:
In my opinion, Celestial is a pretty balanced Amulet and the problem doesn’t lie in the amulet, runes, sigils, but in the Conquest game mode itself, where it’s crucial to be able to hold points and decaping (via winning a 1vs1 at far, for example).
So within this game mode Celestial is really good because, when put with certain classes like ele or warrior, they acquire the capacity to soak and sustain “large” amount of damage (high sustain) to stay on point while also being able to stack a good amount of might (via Blast Finishers and easy access to Fire Fields) which gives them a nice damage output. Add to the mix that they are supporting his team while doing so (might stacks and some healings are for the whole team if they are near).
Therefore in the game mode itself is essential to have this kind of role that can support, tank and bring a good amount of DPS to the table. I’m not forgetting about the amount of CC these classes can bring, but that has nothing to do with Celestial, just with the classes (generally every class has some CCs, some more than others, but they all have).
It’s not the Celestial Amulet that isn’t balanced, but the Conquest game mode itself that makes the Amulet feel like it’s much powerful. To be honest, the January balance patch seems to me to have done some work against Cele and it’s not as “braindead” as people like to make it seem. And I am by no means afraid to say I’m totally okay with the “so called Celestial meta”.
Doom sigil is the most overpowered sigil in the game right now, especially on an ele that should NOT have any access to poison, and having access to poison for that long of a duration/uptime is insane. Doom sigil should be discussed more in this thread.
Doom’s dodgeable/invuln/blindable, I think it’s not the most overpowered sigil in the game.
Explain how classes that shouldn’t have access to poison(a HUGE 33% healing debuff) having essentially FREE access to 6 seconds of poison every 9 seconds isn’t overpowered.
Also, if it’s not the most overpowered sigil, what is?
Doom sigil is the most overpowered sigil in the game right now, especially on an ele that should NOT have any access to poison, and having access to poison for that long of a duration/uptime is insane. Doom sigil should be discussed more in this thread.
Doom’s dodgeable/invuln/blindable, I think it’s not the most overpowered sigil in the game.
Explain how classes that shouldn’t have access to poison(a HUGE 33% healing debuff) having essentially FREE access to 6 seconds of poison every 9 seconds isn’t overpowered.
Also, if it’s not the most overpowered sigil, what is?
First of all, you’re complaining about a sigil that is most effective against passive healing (d/d eles). Active heals such as shelter or withdraw allow you to cleanse or wait for the poison to go before using your heal, minimising the effect of poison.
Second of all, fire and air sigils are far worse.
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Doom sigil is the most overpowered sigil in the game right now, especially on an ele that should NOT have any access to poison, and having access to poison for that long of a duration/uptime is insane. Doom sigil should be discussed more in this thread.
Doom’s dodgeable/invuln/blindable, I think it’s not the most overpowered sigil in the game.
Explain how classes that shouldn’t have access to poison(a HUGE 33% healing debuff) having essentially FREE access to 6 seconds of poison every 9 seconds isn’t overpowered.
Also, if it’s not the most overpowered sigil, what is?
First of all, you’re complaining about a sigil that is most effective against passive healing (d/d eles). Active heals such as shelter or withdraw allow you to cleanse or wait for the poison to go before using your heal, minimising the effect of poison.
Second of all, fire and air sigils are far worse.
You’re not going to win that argument Shiyo. If you truly think the sigil is that OP, I’d advise you to use Generosity and Purity sigils to counter it.
aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Explain how classes that shouldn’t have access to poison(a HUGE 33% healing debuff) having essentially FREE access to 6 seconds of poison every 9 seconds isn’t overpowered.
Also, if it’s not the most overpowered sigil, what is?
Professions that aren’t supposed to have high critical chance suddenly have many crits with Intelligence Sigil
Professions that aren’t supposed to have vigor or more than baseline dodges suddenly have that with Energy Sigil
I mean, saying it in a hype way is useful to making a point, but really:
- Avoidable 6s poison attack on swap
- Unpreventable damage procs on Crit
- Unpreventable 50 Endurance refill on swap
- Unpreventable 2 Stacks of Might for 20s on swap
- Avoidable 975 damage & healing leech on swap
- Next 3 attacks guaranteed to crit, expends charges when attacks avoided.
I would say these are the best sigils…. why does there have to be one that’s the most overpowered, as you earlier claimed?
Objectively, the un-preventable ones such as Air/Fire and Energy are the most overpowered ones, but who cares, despite the game making sigils way too important to a build, the top 10 or so sigils are certainly well balanced with each other.
Forum Lord Chaith
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(edited by Chaith.8256)
thanks Chaith for agreeing with the majority of the player base and explaining why cele comps are OP. a celestial ele should not be able to keep a point decapped for the entire game, playing against other professionals, WHILE getting kills and leaving combat at will and healing back to full in 2-3 seconds.
I also feel well played thieves (d/p or s/d) don’t really have any counters (zerker medi guard to an extent, but theyre easily focused and killed), while hardcountering a lot of other specs. this is very poor game design, and Abjured has basically shown us how there is a single best comp for conquest (maybe with small variations, but revolving around 2 cele d/d eles).
hoping to see a pvp revival when the xpac hits, cant really take gw2’s pvp seriously in any way in its current form. it’s sad that this is the best it’s ever been.
Intelligence Sigil doesn’t grant vigor, neither have anything to do with Endurance.
Did I ever tell you, the definition, of Insanity?
Intelligence Sigil doesn’t grant vigor, neither have anything to do with Endurance.
Ya, correctly reads energy now.
thanks Chaith for agreeing with the majority of the player base and explaining why cele comps are OP. a celestial ele should not be able to keep a point decapped for the entire game, playing against other professionals, WHILE getting kills and leaving combat at will and healing back to full in 2-3 seconds.
I also feel well played thieves (d/p or s/d) don’t really have any counters (zerker medi guard to an extent, but theyre easily focused and killed), while hardcountering a lot of other specs. this is very poor game design, and Abjured has basically shown us how there is a single best comp for conquest (maybe with small variations, but revolving around 2 cele d/d eles).
hoping to see a pvp revival when the xpac hits, cant really take gw2’s pvp seriously in any way in its current form. it’s sad that this is the best it’s ever been.
I think you’re being too pessimistic
Taking two Eles as your pointholders just plain depends on who you have doing it. You don’t need 2 Eles to beat the Abjured.
Do you think Tarcis or R O M would politely quit the game out of being inadequate, when being compared to an Ele’s usefulness? I think not. It’s who plays better that day.
With that in mind, one can easily put together an elite comp, running Ele/War/Engi/Thief/X, with that X being: Condi Necro, Medi Guard, Shatter Mesmer, an exceptional Ranger, I do believe that covers all 8 professions.
It’s not perfect, clearly certain professions are more vital backbones of the comp, but until you are the best at a profession but it’s simply too underpowered to compete, how do you justify current balance as responsible for PvP not being taken seriously, or needing a reboot? Perhaps you meant that in another way.
Forum Lord Chaith
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(edited by Chaith.8256)
Explain how classes that shouldn’t have access to poison(a HUGE 33% healing debuff) having essentially FREE access to 6 seconds of poison every 9 seconds isn’t overpowered.
Also, if it’s not the most overpowered sigil, what is?
Professions that aren’t supposed to have high critical chance suddenly have many crits with Intelligence Sigil
Professions that aren’t supposed to have vigor or more than baseline dodges suddenly have that with Intelligence Sigil
I mean, saying it in a hype way is useful to making a point, but really:
- Avoidable 6s poison attack on swap
- Unpreventable damage procs on Crit
- Unpreventable 50 Endurance refill on swap
- Unpreventable 2 Stacks of Might for 20s on swap
- Avoidable 975 damage & healing leech on swap
- Next 3 attacks guaranteed to crit, expends charges when attacks avoided.
I would say these are the best sigils…. why does there have to be one that’s the most overpowered, as you earlier claimed?
Objectively, the un-preventable ones such as Air/Fire and Energy are the most overpowered ones, but who cares, despite the game making sigils way too important to a build, the top 10 or so sigils are certainly well balanced with each other.
Doom sigil is the most OP right now cuz it allows cele builds to outsustain even better.
Aside engi ( which still has 2 condi clears every 15 secs) all cele proffs are the best at handling conditions.
It’s the same moot point of the the old " u can counter heal signet with poison lelelelel" without factoring that war has one of the best condi removal in game, even without zerk stance/shouts.
Moreover it allows to cover your burn ticks better, especially for the ele which wouldn’ have that free condi in their kitten nal ( u get dem 600 per tick burns covered by chill, 1-2 BLEED STACKS and other joke condies).
1 doom sigil proc on a mes will basically deal him 2 k free damage if he heals with it ( aside generosity on staff/sword but it’s basically the same if he has weap swap on cd) while on ele u just attune to water and gg.
Pls.
33% healing reduction with nearly 100% up time on classes that are NOT supposed to have access to poison is insanely broken beyond belief. Is 33% healing reduction really THAT underrated or misunderstood?
(edited by Shiyo.3578)