Please nerf necro's

Please nerf necro's

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Posted by: hamsteak.1368

hamsteak.1368

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

So we were awful at conditions and had “potential” at power/bunkering..? Ok then!

but we had the strongest AoE in the game. .

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

Poor roaming capabilities and lack of escape

I think the current necro has adequate strengths to cover these weaknesses

Second life bar. Clearly was at a disadvantage.

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Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

You obviously do not understand Necro, then. Well of Suffering, Well of Corruption, Deathshroud 4 is an immense damage burst, and it’s much easier to land compared to Elementalist Stakitten which is our only other competition, unless you count bad direct damage Engi grenade builds. Which we still beat.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

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Posted by: jportell.2197

jportell.2197

Im sorry but the amount of classes ability to cleanse conditions is not on par with necros ability to spam conditions….. The most condi clearing classes in this game cannot keep up. And that is when they are specced for absolutely nothing but condition clearing. Now power no condition application.

Here in shows. WE HAVE A PROBLEM. Did necro need love? YES! Absolutely they needed DEFENSE! They were fine in terms of offense. They needed better escapes! This just makes the need for escapes non-existent because they 2-3 necros on a team pretty much determines the match now. Which is ridiculous…. Anet either needs to buff all classes condi clearing ability to be on par with this new OP necro (yes OP sorry) or tone down some of the kittened stuff they did to the necro in this patch. No class got buffs on par with necro in this patch NONE.

Johnny The Gray
GASM’s Bunker Mesmer

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Posted by: emon.1863

emon.1863

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

Add “Strength of the Underworld” to Grandmaster Spite tree.
Strength of the Underworld
Wells last 50% longer, and do 20% more damage

WOW, all I see here is " I play a powermancer!!, Please nerf condis and buff the build i play!!!"

Let me guess you spam wells on a point and hate condi builds. If you think “Strength if the Underworld” is a good idea, your bat kitten crazy.

Hey, guess what. Conditionmancer is overpowered. And I play both. Infact since the buff, I have played nonstop Terrormancer, because it’s overpowered, and easy.

Speaking of which, Strength of the Underworld wouldn’t be overpowered at all, since you’d have to decide on making your Wells stronger, or your overall weapons stronger such as Close to Death on Daggers. That trait would allow for stronger support/team play power builds. If you noticed, I also buffed Minionmancers there, and I hate Minions.

So get over yourself, bro.

Pretty sure you believe you are king of the necros. What is you rank, team, win/loss tournament ratio, or position on the leader board? Pretty sure its all embarrassing

Pretty well known condi was still the favored build for necro in top tournament pvp before the patch. Every necro in the top 50 played condi for the most part. Not saying power build are not good, but your statements are just false. Btw lol at the bro comment, forgot school was out.

Ignorance spreads amongst the masses. I’m tired of reiterating my points to people such as yourself. Don’t believe me? Test it. I tested it, and I used to think the same way you people did until I learned from good players, not the false idols.

Ok, if necro was good before the patch, then why less top team had necro with them ? And if Terror mancer was a bad spec, why top teams run with them ?
Its not about “learn to play”, its about team requerments. Just think like this : what kind of player will you have in you team , one who is running effectevly + supports you in game and if he make misstake its not so bad or one who mb run more effectivly, but every mistake can cost you a game ?! Thats why necro was so kitten unpopular pre patch. And thats why most of necros were (are) running terror mancer.

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Posted by: Kryshade.6075

Kryshade.6075

So much mis-information and people believing in wrong things.

First of all, Doom’s little .5 sec buff does absolutely nothing to increase the duration of fear if a necro is already a terror necro. It will tick 2x just like every other fear does. This change ONLY affected a necro that wasn’t specced into terror duration so as a buff it’s negligible at best.

Terror ticks based off condi damage. It doesn’t change. Isn’t affected by the number of condi’s or anything else. It’s also considered a stun so any stun breaker will cancel the effects.

Torment was a great buff and a needed addition to the necro class. I would say it’s the single largest buff we have gotten. Coincidentally, no one is complaining about Torment.

Also, the burning that necro’s got is situational and while some/many necros may run that build it is inferior to the terror build in a lot of ways. Again, a necro that is running burning is a complete glass cannon with poor LF generation. There is a huge trade off to obtain burning.

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Posted by: emon.1863

emon.1863

So much mis-information and people believing in wrong things.

First of all, Doom’s little .5 sec buff does absolutely nothing to increase the duration of fear if a necro is already a terror necro. It will tick 2x just like every other fear does. This change ONLY affected a necro that wasn’t specced into terror duration so as a buff it’s negligible at best.

Terror ticks based off condi damage. It doesn’t change. Isn’t affected by the number of condi’s or anything else. It’s also considered a stun so any stun breaker will cancel the effects.

Torment was a great buff and a needed addition to the necro class. I would say it’s the single largest buff we have gotten. Coincidentally, no one is complaining about Torment.

Also, the burning that necro’s got is situational and while some/many necros may run that build it is inferior to the terror build in a lot of ways. Again, a necro that is running burning is a complete glass cannon with poor LF generation. There is a huge trade off to obtain burning.

Agree!!!
But as it was said many times before, ppl just forgot how to fight necro – thats all.

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Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

Add “Strength of the Underworld” to Grandmaster Spite tree.
Strength of the Underworld
Wells last 50% longer, and do 20% more damage

WOW, all I see here is " I play a powermancer!!, Please nerf condis and buff the build i play!!!"

Let me guess you spam wells on a point and hate condi builds. If you think “Strength if the Underworld” is a good idea, your bat kitten crazy.

Hey, guess what. Conditionmancer is overpowered. And I play both. Infact since the buff, I have played nonstop Terrormancer, because it’s overpowered, and easy.

Speaking of which, Strength of the Underworld wouldn’t be overpowered at all, since you’d have to decide on making your Wells stronger, or your overall weapons stronger such as Close to Death on Daggers. That trait would allow for stronger support/team play power builds. If you noticed, I also buffed Minionmancers there, and I hate Minions.

So get over yourself, bro.

Pretty sure you believe you are king of the necros. What is you rank, team, win/loss tournament ratio, or position on the leader board? Pretty sure its all embarrassing

Pretty well known condi was still the favored build for necro in top tournament pvp before the patch. Every necro in the top 50 played condi for the most part. Not saying power build are not good, but your statements are just false. Btw lol at the bro comment, forgot school was out.

Ignorance spreads amongst the masses. I’m tired of reiterating my points to people such as yourself. Don’t believe me? Test it. I tested it, and I used to think the same way you people did until I learned from good players, not the false idols.

Ok, if necro was good before the patch, then why less top team had necro with them ? And if Terror mancer was a bad spec, why top teams run with them ?
Its not about “learn to play”, its about team requerments. Just think like this : what kind of player will you have in you team , one who is running effectevly + supports you in game and if he make misstake its not so bad or one who mb run more effectivly, but every mistake can cost you a game ?! Thats why necro was so kitten unpopular pre patch. And thats why most of necros were (are) running terror mancer.

Because most of the ‘top’ Necromancers are ignorant, and run crappy builds. I have used the builds they deem good, and they are terrible. Here’s a thought, if all the bad players in the universe decide to use a meta build given out by a ‘top’ player, and that build happens to be bad. What are they going to say? Necro is UP.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

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Posted by: Symbolic.7910

Symbolic.7910

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

Add “Strength of the Underworld” to Grandmaster Spite tree.
Strength of the Underworld
Wells last 50% longer, and do 20% more damage

WOW, all I see here is " I play a powermancer!!, Please nerf condis and buff the build i play!!!"

Let me guess you spam wells on a point and hate condi builds. If you think “Strength if the Underworld” is a good idea, your bat kitten crazy.

Hey, guess what. Conditionmancer is overpowered. And I play both. Infact since the buff, I have played nonstop Terrormancer, because it’s overpowered, and easy.

Speaking of which, Strength of the Underworld wouldn’t be overpowered at all, since you’d have to decide on making your Wells stronger, or your overall weapons stronger such as Close to Death on Daggers. That trait would allow for stronger support/team play power builds. If you noticed, I also buffed Minionmancers there, and I hate Minions.

So get over yourself, bro.

Pretty sure you believe you are king of the necros. What is you rank, team, win/loss tournament ratio, or position on the leader board? Pretty sure its all embarrassing

Pretty well known condi was still the favored build for necro in top tournament pvp before the patch. Every necro in the top 50 played condi for the most part. Not saying power build are not good, but your statements are just false. Btw lol at the bro comment, forgot school was out.

Ignorance spreads amongst the masses. I’m tired of reiterating my points to people such as yourself. Don’t believe me? Test it. I tested it, and I used to think the same way you people did until I learned from good players, not the false idols.

Ok, if necro was good before the patch, then why less top team had necro with them ? And if Terror mancer was a bad spec, why top teams run with them ?
Its not about “learn to play”, its about team requerments. Just think like this : what kind of player will you have in you team , one who is running effectevly + supports you in game and if he make misstake its not so bad or one who mb run more effectivly, but every mistake can cost you a game ?! Thats why necro was so kitten unpopular pre patch. And thats why most of necros were (are) running terror mancer.

Because most of the ‘top’ Necromancers are ignorant, and run crappy builds. I have used the builds they deem good, and they are terrible. Here’s a thought, if all the bad players in the universe decide to use a meta build given out by a ‘top’ player, and that build happens to be bad. What are they going to say? Necro is UP.

‘Hi, i’m TheMightyAltroll, i criticize players who dedicate hours of their time to find the most optimal builds for teamplay, I don’t take into account that these players test viability of several builds because i’m always right.’

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Posted by: emon.1863

emon.1863

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

Add “Strength of the Underworld” to Grandmaster Spite tree.
Strength of the Underworld
Wells last 50% longer, and do 20% more damage

WOW, all I see here is " I play a powermancer!!, Please nerf condis and buff the build i play!!!"

Let me guess you spam wells on a point and hate condi builds. If you think “Strength if the Underworld” is a good idea, your bat kitten crazy.

Hey, guess what. Conditionmancer is overpowered. And I play both. Infact since the buff, I have played nonstop Terrormancer, because it’s overpowered, and easy.

Speaking of which, Strength of the Underworld wouldn’t be overpowered at all, since you’d have to decide on making your Wells stronger, or your overall weapons stronger such as Close to Death on Daggers. That trait would allow for stronger support/team play power builds. If you noticed, I also buffed Minionmancers there, and I hate Minions.

So get over yourself, bro.

Pretty sure you believe you are king of the necros. What is you rank, team, win/loss tournament ratio, or position on the leader board? Pretty sure its all embarrassing

Pretty well known condi was still the favored build for necro in top tournament pvp before the patch. Every necro in the top 50 played condi for the most part. Not saying power build are not good, but your statements are just false. Btw lol at the bro comment, forgot school was out.

Ignorance spreads amongst the masses. I’m tired of reiterating my points to people such as yourself. Don’t believe me? Test it. I tested it, and I used to think the same way you people did until I learned from good players, not the false idols.

Ok, if necro was good before the patch, then why less top team had necro with them ? And if Terror mancer was a bad spec, why top teams run with them ?
Its not about “learn to play”, its about team requerments. Just think like this : what kind of player will you have in you team , one who is running effectevly + supports you in game and if he make misstake its not so bad or one who mb run more effectivly, but every mistake can cost you a game ?! Thats why necro was so kitten unpopular pre patch. And thats why most of necros were (are) running terror mancer.

Because most of the ‘top’ Necromancers are ignorant, and run crappy builds. I have used the builds they deem good, and they are terrible. Here’s a thought, if all the bad players in the universe decide to use a meta build given out by a ‘top’ player, and that build happens to be bad. What are they going to say? Necro is UP.

Meta build are made by team for team game. They aint terrible, they are just speciallized. Anyway it wont change anything, if your team doesnt req. a necro – you should play other class or dont play with this team. Thats how it work, mate! If everyone is thinking that Necro is UP, your chances to get into good team are almost 0.
But back to the topic : cuz of necros lack of mobility, vigor and survavobility i find it fair, that we get smth else.

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Posted by: Caffynated.5713

Caffynated.5713

I think it’s funny that if anyone says a mesmer gibbing you in <1 seconds is OP, it’s an L2P issue, but if necro terror bombs you and kills you in 6 seconds it’s just crazy strong and has to be nerfed.

Typical “my class is underpowered, anything that kills me is overpowered” mentality.

Even using signet of spite and corrupt boon with staff + S/D I can’t keep condis on most good players. Adding a second condi class (necro, engi or ranger) can overwhelm most people’s condi removal if timed right, but one necro is not going to be able to keep everything on a good warrior, ranger or guardian.

Burning was a nice addition, but the other traits you can get in the line are very weak. Until they change them so that I’m not agonizing over picking the least useless adept and master trait, I still think 0 30 10 0 30 is overall a far stronger build.

“We recognize that the changes to [ele] will essentially remove it from play. In the future,
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet

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Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

‘Hi, i’m TheMightyAltroll, i criticize players who dedicate hours of their time to find the most optimal builds for teamplay, I don’t take into account that these players test viability of several builds because i’m always right.’

Hi, I’m TheMightyAltroll. I’m a player who dedicates hours of time to find the most optimal builds for teamplay, and I test the viability of numerous builds, even builds that aren’t my own to compare them to builds I’ve made. I learn from other people’s build and precision craft. Oh, and I’m always right.

Pleased to meet you.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

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Posted by: Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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Posted by: Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

I think it’s funny that if anyone says a mesmer gibbing you in <1 seconds is OP, it’s an L2P issue, but if necro terror bombs you and kills you in 6 seconds it’s just crazy strong and has to be nerfed.

Typical “my class is underpowered, anything that kills me is overpowered” mentality.

Even using signet of spite and corrupt boon with staff + S/D I can’t keep condis on most good players. Adding a second condi class (necro, engi or ranger) can overwhelm most people’s condi removal if timed right, but one necro is not going to be able to keep everything on a good warrior, ranger or guardian.

Burning was a nice addition, but the other traits you can get in the line are very weak. Until they change them so that I’m not agonizing over picking the least useless adept and master trait, I still think 0 30 10 0 30 is overall a far stronger build.

Funny indeed^^!
Mesmers launching instant nuke bombs from stealth on whole shrine..are not OP while necros who need enemies stupid enough to dance on spectral wall, eating wells for several seconds ( mins?) are OP…

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Posted by: Poplolita.2638

Poplolita.2638

‘Hi, i’m TheMightyAltroll, i criticize players who dedicate hours of their time to find the most optimal builds for teamplay, I don’t take into account that these players test viability of several builds because i’m always right.’

Hi, I’m TheMightyAltroll. I’m a player who dedicates hours of time to find the most optimal builds for teamplay, and I test the viability of numerous builds, even builds that aren’t my own to compare them to builds I’ve made. I learn from other people’s build and precision craft. Oh, and I’m always right.

Pleased to meet you.

Your name suits you well.

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Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

If your opponent is out of stunbreakers, they are simply dead now. Which is blatantly overpowered for Necro. It’s to the point to where I can’t beat Necromancers on anything but my Necromancer anymore, even my beastmaster Regen Ranger will lose to a terrormancer.

This is not a l2p issue, I have played Necromancer for a long time, this is simply overpowered.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

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Posted by: emon.1863

emon.1863

If your opponent is out of stunbreakers, they are simply dead now. Which is blatantly overpowered for Necro. It’s to the point to where I can’t beat Necromancers on anything but my Necromancer anymore, even my beastmaster Regen Ranger will lose to a terrormancer.

This is not a l2p issue, I have played Necromancer for a long time, this is simply overpowered.

1."What if " is bad argument.
2.How often do you fight alone in tpvp ?
3.Necro is not immortal
4.Necro cant escape
5.Team should support each other
6.Necro can be CC’d as well

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Posted by: Lopez.7369

Lopez.7369

I already saw more people today focus down necromancers and destroy them. That weakness is still very apparent in the class.

While I would be OK with a nerf to Terror, Doom and Spectral Wall, I think it’s something that has to be approached carefully. If people continuing focusing necromancers down as they should, then necromancers need massive counter-pressure to be able to respond, particularly since the class doesn’t and shouldn’t have mobility because it would defy the class’s theme of attrition.

The people calling for a nerf to Dhuumfire are simply wrong, though. Burning is necessary for condition builds in the metagame. That’s why necromancers had to run with engineers last patch. It’s not even about the damage, although that is quite nice; it’s about splitting the class’s source of condition damage so it isn’t all on one condition that can be easily cleansed. To that end, Terror would have to go before Dhuumfire.

Still, Dhuumfire could definitely be replaced with a trait that applies three stacks of Torment on a critical hit on a 10-second cooldown. That would be a slight nerf, and it would fit with the theme of the class.

(edited by Lopez.7369)

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Posted by: Vuh.1328

Vuh.1328

It’s funny watching these so called “top teams” run necro now and watch how bad they actully are at it. Most top teams just never had a good necro player to begin with which was why it didn’t work out for them or took their time to actully make it work.
We have played with a necro since January(he is considering rerolling now cause of how face roll it is) and i’ve never ever felt like it was the necro that have dragged us down when we have played the top teams, it has been the rotating, the positioning, the corpse control and the corpse control we have sucked at(mainly due to a very unstable team).
Only time i’ve actully felt necro was part of the problem was vs the tripple ele teams.
We have done good vs most top teams, if we haven’t beaten them we felt like we could with enough practice. It have always been a skill issue from our side, like we have beaten TCG in team fights but we always lost cause they are superior at rotatating or have better downstate managment(just an example)

Look at symbolic for example(don’t take this offensivly, you are a great guy that is pretty smart too and TP is my fav team <3): watching him play necro vs watching our necro play is like day and night in terms of skill, guess he could be rusty though.
There are maybe 5 necros on eu i can think of that actully play decent and most of them doesn’t have a team, an unstable one like our or their team don’t want to try make it work so they are forced to play something else.

All we really wanted for our necro was a way to be able to either disengage or a way to survive against the pressure in team fights but we had almost made up for that anyway with peeling(WOW YOU CAN DO THIS?!), he would have been happy with greater marks(the radius) becoming base line and then unblockable+cd reduction merged into 1 trait and then maybe some life force gaining buffs.

Sorry the randomness of the structure and grammar destruction of this post but i’m a horrible person at typing and i’m newly awake.

Take your time to learn proper keybinding, it’s worth the struggle

(edited by Vuh.1328)

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Posted by: Damsel Delilah.9084

Damsel Delilah.9084

Nerf necros, nuff said…over half of all teams running 2 necros should be more than enough proof that they are op.

Demise – Elementalist/Warrior
We Have No Creativity [FML]- r.i.p. 2013
http://www.twitch.tv/attuneddemise

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Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

1."What if " is bad argument.
2.How often do you fight alone in tpvp ?
3.Necro is not immortal
4.Necro cant escape
5.Team should support each other
6.Necro can be CC’d as well

1. No it isn’t, especially when my conditions are on a shorter cooldown than their stunbreakers.

2. Quite often

3. And? Neither is Beastmaster Ranger. However we still have the strongest condition output in the entire game now.

4. So what? Warriors can’t escape effectively either, and are certainly in a much worse position than we are now. Besides this is tPvP, where if you ‘escape’ you lose a point.

5. I won 6 tournaments today running an all Necro team, we didn’t come close to losing a single time, and even fought 2 premades.

6. So bloody what? I don’t know if you realize this, but we have stunbreakers too, and we can use our Class mechanic while stunned to interrupt WHILE doing damage, and now, our interrupt lasts longer, does more damage, and allows us to chain more damage even after being stunned. Plus Reaper’s Protection at that. Not to mention opposing CC doesn’t matter much when they’re dying from burn, bleed, poison, torment, and terror all at once.

Necromancer potential wasn’t realized prepatch because of ignorance. Now everyone is facerolling it and people still think it’s UP. I have never been more disgusted by my own class before.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

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Posted by: Caffynated.5713

Caffynated.5713

If your opponent is out of stunbreakers, they are simply dead now. Which is blatantly overpowered for Necro. It’s to the point to where I can’t beat Necromancers on anything but my Necromancer anymore, even my beastmaster Regen Ranger will lose to a terrormancer.

This is not a l2p issue, I have played Necromancer for a long time, this is simply overpowered.

If any glass canon catches you without stun breakers, you’re dead. If a glass thief nails you with basilisk venom he could auto attack you to death before it ends. A 30 30 0 10 0 ele can EQ → LF → fire attunement → ring of fire → 1 tick of drakes breath → arcane wave → firegrab → air attunement → ride the lightning, all in a span of 2 seconds for nearly 30k damage. A shatter mesmer can kill you in 1 second or less. Stun break or die.

Why should a glass cannon necro be any different?

“We recognize that the changes to [ele] will essentially remove it from play. In the future,
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet

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Posted by: Poplolita.2638

Poplolita.2638

I’m already seeing more people focus down necromancers and destroy them today. That weakness is still very apparent in the class.

While I would be OK with a nerf to Terror, Doom and Spectral Wall, I think it’s something that has to be approached carefully. If people continuing focusing necromancers down as they should, then necromancers need massive counter-pressure to be able to respond, particularly since the class doesn’t have mobility and isn’t supposed to.

Remind me of affliction warlock back in cataclysm/lich king pvp. Warlock had the extremely powerful combinaison of fear+ unstable affliction+dot which gave them the best control in the entire game. It was also a class with the worse mobility in the game. If you leave them alone, they put insane pressure on the other team. Once focused, they can hardly spread unstable affliction and fear without getting interrupted which lower the pressure they put on the other team, and also force them to use fear in a more defensive way wasting DR, and some possible cross cc.

(edited by Poplolita.2638)

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Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

If any glass canon catches you without stun breakers, you’re dead. If a glass thief nails you with basilisk venom he could auto attack you to death before it ends. A 30 30 0 10 0 ele can EQ -> LF -> fire attunement -> ring of fire -> 1 tick of drakes breath -> arcane wave -> firegrab -> air attunement -> ride the lightning, all in a span of 2 seconds for nearly 30k damage. A shatter mesmer can kill you in 1 second or less. Stun break or die.

Why should a glass cannon necro be any different?

A) Those things you listed only work on other GCs. I waste bunkers in seconds on my Necro.

B) Necromancer is not glass cannon, any competent Necro will either pack some traits, or a utility to avoid being glass cannon.

C) Also, those skills you listed have incredibly long cooldowns, or take more setup, a Terrormancer when set up properly can do them much faster, and win a fight based on attrition. Though still incredibly quickly.

I played my Tormentor build today in Solo join tourneys, there was only one player that lasted longer than 18 seconds against me. It was an Engineer with the automated response trait. He still died 6 seconds later from my Flesh Golem.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

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Posted by: Lopez.7369

Lopez.7369

I’m already seeing more people focus down necromancers and destroy them today. That weakness is still very apparent in the class.

While I would be OK with a nerf to Terror, Doom and Spectral Wall, I think it’s something that has to be approached carefully. If people continuing focusing necromancers down as they should, then necromancers need massive counter-pressure to be able to respond, particularly since the class doesn’t have mobility and isn’t supposed to.

Remind me of affliction warlock back in cataclysm/lich king pvp. Warlock had the extremely powerful combinaison of fear+ unstable affliction+dot which gave them the best control in the entire game. It was also a class with the worse mobility in the game. If you leave them alone, they put insane pressure on your team. Once focused, they can hardly spread unstable affliction and fear without getting interrupted which lower the pressure they put on the other team.

Yes. Another WOW comparison is Death Knight, which has awful mobility but amazing damage if left alone.

That’s the theme of the necromancer, and this patch was a great move in the right direction, even if the buffs to fears and Terror were too much.

But that needs to be clear: The problem is Doom’s close-range duration, Spectral Wall and Terror. Nothing else. Dhuumfire is necessary in the metagame.

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Posted by: Kryshade.6075

Kryshade.6075

FEARS AND TERROR WERE NOT BUFFED IN THIS PATCH. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY PLEASE REALIZE THIS PEOPLE!

/facepalm

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Posted by: Lopez.7369

Lopez.7369

Doom was buffed in close range this patch. Spectral Wall now fears. Those are two huge buffs to necromancer’s fear capabilities, especially when condition duration from runes and the Spite trait line are taken into account. It’s too much crowd control.

Both of those changes, along with Tainted Shackles and Dhuumfire, also put Terror over the top. The reason necromancers had Terror to begin with was because the class didn’t have a secondary DPS condition. It now has torment and burning, which effectively make Terror overboard in terms of damage. Conditions shouldn’t be doing as much burst as Terror allows.

(edited by Lopez.7369)

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Posted by: Archer Henchman.2534

Archer Henchman.2534

It’s funny watching these so called “top teams” run necro now and watch how bad they actully are at it. Most top teams just never had a good necro player to begin with which was why it didn’t work out for them or took their time to actully make it work.
We have played with a necro since January(he is considering rerolling now cause of how face roll it is) and i’ve never ever felt like it was the necro that have dragged us down when we have played the top teams, it has been the rotating, the positioning, the corpse control and the corpse control we have sucked at(mainly due to a very unstable team).
Only time i’ve actully felt necro was part of the problem was vs the tripple ele teams.
We have done good vs most top teams, if we haven’t beaten them we felt like we could with enough practice. It have always been a skill issue from our side, like we have beaten TCG in team fights but we always lost cause they are superior at rotatating or have better downstate managment(just an example)

Look at symbolic for example(don’t take this offensivly, you are a great guy that is pretty smart too and TP is my fav team <3): watching him play necro vs watching our necro play is like day and night in terms of skill, guess he could be rusty though.
There are maybe 5 necros on eu i can think of that actully play decent and most of them doesn’t have a team, an unstable one like our or their team don’t want to try make it work so they are forced to play something else.

All we really wanted for our necro was a way to be able to either disengage or a way to survive against the pressure in team fights but we had almost made up for that anyway with peeling(WOW YOU CAN DO THIS?!), he would have been happy with greater marks(the radius) becoming base line and then unblockable+cd reduction merged into 1 trait and then maybe some life force gaining buffs.

Sorry the randomness of the structure and grammar destruction of this post but i’m a horrible person at typing and i’m newly awake.

Please recognize that top teams are running Necro because even without being skilled at necro, current players who have swapped to the class are providing more to their team as poorly skilled necros than as some of the best of x class that they switched from. Additionally, necros provide more for teams the more of them you bring because of how epidemics and condi removal works.

Condi removal scales in a step-ladder function in a condi removal v time graph. Any condis you apply above that threshold will not be removed, which means stacking condi-applying classes improves the relative effectiveness of each of the condi-applying classes. What’s more? Epidemic scales in effectiveness only with respect to the surplus conditions above the removal capacity, so more necros means more condis that stick, which means more condis that are spread, which again burns removal and creates additional epi targets.

The relative effectiveness of Necro may yet increase or decrease as teams learn how to both play and counterplay against them but while necros were slightly underrepresented on teams, most of the top teams that I know of cut their necros for because of the players behind them.

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Posted by: Caffynated.5713

Caffynated.5713

stuff

You’re either the god of GW2 that nobody has ever heard of, or you’re playing nothing but terribles.

Or you’re making things up; also a likely possibility.

Please recognize that top teams are running Necro because even without being skilled at necro, current players who have swapped to the class are providing more to their team as poorly skilled necros than as some of the best of x class that they switched from. Additionally, necros provide more for teams the more of them you bring because of how epidemics and condi removal works.

Condi removal scales in a step-ladder function in a condi removal v time graph. Any condis you apply above that threshold will not be removed, which means stacking condi-applying classes improves the relative effectiveness of each of the condi-applying classes. What’s more? Epidemic scales in effectiveness only with respect to the surplus conditions above the removal capacity, so more necros means more condis that stick, which means more condis that are spread, which again burns removal and creates additional epi targets.

The relative effectiveness of Necro may yet increase or decrease as teams learn how to both play and counterplay against them but while necros were slightly underrepresented on teams, most of the top teams that I know of cut their necros for because of the players behind them.

Actually, more than 2 maybe 3 condi classes are a hindrance to each other. You can never have more than 25 bleeds, only one tick of burning and poison per second, etc. It’s the problem you run into with condi builds in WvW and PvE. Power damage stacks to infinity allowing 5 power based damage classes to pour 100% of their damage onto a target. 5 necros will cap out very quickly and end up doing comparatively little.

“We recognize that the changes to [ele] will essentially remove it from play. In the future,
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet

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Posted by: Cempa.5619

Cempa.5619

If any glass canon catches you without stun breakers, you’re dead. If a glass thief nails you with basilisk venom he could auto attack you to death before it ends. A 30 30 0 10 0 ele can EQ -> LF -> fire attunement -> ring of fire -> 1 tick of drakes breath -> arcane wave -> firegrab -> air attunement -> ride the lightning, all in a span of 2 seconds for nearly 30k damage. A shatter mesmer can kill you in 1 second or less. Stun break or die.

Why should a glass cannon necro be any different?

A) Those things you listed only work on other GCs. I waste bunkers in seconds on my Necro.

B) Necromancer is not glass cannon, any competent Necro will either pack some traits, or a utility to avoid being glass cannon.

C) Also, those skills you listed have incredibly long cooldowns, or take more setup, a Terrormancer when set up properly can do them much faster, and win a fight based on attrition. Though still incredibly quickly.

I played my Tormentor build today in Solo join tourneys, there was only one player that lasted longer than 18 seconds against me. It was an Engineer with the automated response trait. He still died 6 seconds later from my Flesh Golem.

What build are you using and how would you translate it to WvW?

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Posted by: jportell.2197

jportell.2197

What necros needed was better escape mechanisms for fights that weren’t working out… They gave them insta kill on everyone around them instead….

Johnny The Gray
GASM’s Bunker Mesmer

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Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

If a die-hard necro call his class broken, then something is really wrong in this game.

Well, A-Net refuses to work together with exp players to balance this game. So Karl is left allone balancing classes and has no idea on his own, how strong they are. Observing some matches on twitch won’t give the same feeling either. So there is basically no knowledge of the potetial of each class. No wonder why this game fails at balance.

Read It Backwards [BooN]

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Posted by: KarlaGrey.5903

KarlaGrey.5903

Engis trait has the same icd. Engi doesnt have fear though does it. Necro needs burning but perhaps its fear should now be toned down slightly (duration on doom for example) to compensate slightly.

I’m running virtually the same 0 30 10 0 30 condimancer build as prepatch, but with 1 minor change (rez out spectral wall in). I don’t think we really need burning, as long as we have torment.
Apart from the lack of anti-cc tools, we’re finally in a better spot then we used to be. Remember not everyone has a team babysitting them 24/7 (which seems to be the main argument when claiming necros were already present in tpvp before the patch), and not every team is/was willing to spec around the proff that was rashly smiter booned to oblivion right before release.
While fears can be an excellent defensive or offensive tool, the lack of any real disengages, evades and low recharge stunbreakers (bar for the wurm) still makes them a relatively easy target to bring down, especially if they don’t spec high, or at all into SR.
As tempting as a 30 30 10 setup might look, I wouldn’t sacrifice high sr for some extra burning.

They buffed about a million things on the already best necro build – the terror build. They gave us:

1, Burning – this was fine
2, More poison on scepter – this was fine
3, More lf gain on staff auto – this was fine
4, Quicker staff auto – this was fine
5, More lf gain on scepter 3 – this was fine
6, A massive weakness buff – this was fine but they left the weakness duration way too long on dagger 5 (aoe btw)
7, They increased the speed of dagger 4 – this was fine
8, They buffed doom which was already good – why? Makes no sense
9, They added fear to spectral wall – this isnt that bad I suppose.
10, They made putrid mark transfer blind – this was fine
11, They added ds5 which is possibly the most op thing ever – probably should be nerfed but is very fun :p

1. Fine, but they put it on a tree that forces the nec to make a trade off (no high SR->kittenty lf generation due to no mark trait, longer CD on DS skills, no access to spectral traits, no extra 50% fear duration – the latter can, admittedly, be somewhat replaced by the spite tree cond duration though).

2. You cannot be serious. Scepter poison application, and duration are/were rather mediocre, especially when compared to other condi classes. The best part about them, and scepter in general, has always been the fact they aren’t snail-speed projectiles a-la staff 1 style.

3. Only that it wasn’t/isn’t – the projectile is so terribly slow no one in their sane mind would use it for lf generation outside downed targets. Given how they changed the wrong thing about it, it’s still equally useless.

4. It wasn’t exactly fine, but it wasn’t the main issue about staff 1, i. e. impossible to hit a moving target.

5. It was mediocre. Now it is..average, I suppose.

6. I don’t mind the weakness duration be reduced…IF they actually remove the ~0.5s delay on actual hit.

7. It could be ‘dodged’ by moving left and right, or just moving out of its flight direction. How was that fine? Occasionally, I’d even have it miss almost pointblank. It is FAR more reliable now.

8. I suppose they wanted it to work in a smiliar way ‘Fear Me’ does. I don’t think it is gamebreaking.

9. It makes the skill actually worth taking now, yea.

10. Is it OP now? Ofc not.

11. It’s awesome, yea. Finally some loving for a change. I do however believe only nec and warrior should be getting it.

If you were gaining self-gratification by playing a sledge-hammered class with somewhat success, because you had a whole team resolve around you, that’s your problem. You shouldn’t forget that, although the necro class might have been rather balanced in itself – in a vacuum, much like the warrior – it was, for the most part, rather subpar when compared to the alternatives when played at equal level, and normally taken because of rez and wells, because even it even became outclassed in boon removal.

RIP ‘gf left me coz of ladderboard’ Total views: 71,688 Total posts: 363

(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)

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Posted by: Equinox.1025

Equinox.1025

today tpvp 1v1 versus necro (probably new 30/30/10)

Necro: Why conditions dont kill you? I dont undestand?
I: well i have a GM trait that make me inmune to condition at 25% HP and your Scepter dont have enough pure power for kill me XD
Necro: WTF

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Posted by: Shakki.3219

Shakki.3219

lol necros who dont know the trait of an engineer…
—————————————————

anyways, it’s funny to see how people directly flame and cry now, after necro became actually USEFUL and does abit of damage after 10 months.. before no single kitten was given…

Reaper – Anguîsh

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Posted by: Vuh.1328

Vuh.1328

It’s funny watching these so called “top teams” run necro now and watch how bad they actully are at it. Most top teams just never had a good necro player to begin with which was why it didn’t work out for them or took their time to actully make it work.
We have played with a necro since January(he is considering rerolling now cause of how face roll it is) and i’ve never ever felt like it was the necro that have dragged us down when we have played the top teams, it has been the rotating, the positioning, the corpse control and the corpse control we have sucked at(mainly due to a very unstable team).
Only time i’ve actully felt necro was part of the problem was vs the tripple ele teams.
We have done good vs most top teams, if we haven’t beaten them we felt like we could with enough practice. It have always been a skill issue from our side, like we have beaten TCG in team fights but we always lost cause they are superior at rotatating or have better downstate managment(just an example)

Look at symbolic for example(don’t take this offensivly, you are a great guy that is pretty smart too and TP is my fav team <3): watching him play necro vs watching our necro play is like day and night in terms of skill, guess he could be rusty though.
There are maybe 5 necros on eu i can think of that actully play decent and most of them doesn’t have a team, an unstable one like our or their team don’t want to try make it work so they are forced to play something else.

All we really wanted for our necro was a way to be able to either disengage or a way to survive against the pressure in team fights but we had almost made up for that anyway with peeling(WOW YOU CAN DO THIS?!), he would have been happy with greater marks(the radius) becoming base line and then unblockable+cd reduction merged into 1 trait and then maybe some life force gaining buffs.

Sorry the randomness of the structure and grammar destruction of this post but i’m a horrible person at typing and i’m newly awake.

Please recognize that top teams are running Necro because even without being skilled at necro, current players who have swapped to the class are providing more to their team as poorly skilled necros than as some of the best of x class that they switched from. Additionally, necros provide more for teams the more of them you bring because of how epidemics and condi removal works.

Condi removal scales in a step-ladder function in a condi removal v time graph. Any condis you apply above that threshold will not be removed, which means stacking condi-applying classes improves the relative effectiveness of each of the condi-applying classes. What’s more? Epidemic scales in effectiveness only with respect to the surplus conditions above the removal capacity, so more necros means more condis that stick, which means more condis that are spread, which again burns removal and creates additional epi targets.

The relative effectiveness of Necro may yet increase or decrease as teams learn how to both play and counterplay against them but while necros were slightly underrepresented on teams, most of the top teams that I know of cut their necros for because of the players behind them.

About your bolded part, that is exactly the problem i ment.
Before it could be effective if you wanted it to be in good hands, now it’s just faceroll(hence why our necro is considering rerolling/quitting)

Take your time to learn proper keybinding, it’s worth the struggle

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Posted by: Vuh.1328

Vuh.1328

lol necros who dont know the trait of an engineer…
—————————————————

anyways, it’s funny to see how people directly flame and cry now, after necro became actually USEFUL and does abit of damage after 10 months.. before no single kitten was given…

Necro have always been useful(beside maybe vs tripple ele running tripple cantrip..) and did good damage, maybe not for necros ledging spamming scepter 1 while spamming marks on cd.

Take your time to learn proper keybinding, it’s worth the struggle

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Posted by: Iceflame.5024

Iceflame.5024

If you guys want necros nerfed, then I can only agree with reworking spectral wall back to what it was, but with a fixed combo field. For now I can only agree that the new wall might be a bit over the top with everything else that we’ve got. The main things that’s making people freak out is this wall and probably the amount of necros running in hotjoins and maybe some tPVP matches.

The wall just has very good fear application capabilities and it’s good even if it’s not traited.

So yeah, if it goes down the nerf path, I sincerely hope they start slowly and exclusively from the wall as a first step and then give it a fair amount of time to calm down and see what happens.

(edited by Iceflame.5024)

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Posted by: KarlaGrey.5903

KarlaGrey.5903

today tpvp 1v1 versus necro (probably new 30/30/10)

Necro: Why conditions dont kill you? I dont undestand?
I: well i have a GM trait that make me inmune to condition at 25% HP and your Scepter dont have enough pure power for kill me XD
Necro: WTF

Yea, I’ve been complaining about that ridiculous, no internal CD, trait for a while now. At least give it a CD of 20 seconds, for crying outloud…ALL necro (GM and most other) traits have internal cooldowns, so heh.

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(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

That would make it quite useless.
It is a grandmaster trait and it works only below 25% hp (that means, in the best case, something like 6500 hp). And it doesn’t remove conditions already applied anyway.
Also, it is the alternative trait to HGH.

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Posted by: KarlaGrey.5903

KarlaGrey.5903

It’s an rps approach, and a hard spec agaisnt conditions. I suppose we’ll be seeing even more of it now.

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Posted by: Xephiare.4793

Xephiare.4793

I’m pretty sure necros would get nerfed next. That fear with conditions is too good.
I ran toughness/vitality build and died in a few seconds.

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Posted by: Kravick.4906

Kravick.4906

If mesmers weren’t OP before with all the shenanigans they can do, and HGH engineers weren’t OP before, then I don’t see how necromancers are OP now. Frankly, I think this really is a learn to play issue. I give it 2 weeks before people figure out how to counter us, then we’ll be right back where we started. ANet did not address any of our survivability issues. We are still not an attrition class.

Also, learn to not walk into spectral wall. Today I watched no less than 5 people run into the kitten thing 3 times in a row.

Stuff goes here.

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Posted by: Vuh.1328

Vuh.1328

If mesmers weren’t OP before with all the shenanigans they can do, and HGH engineers weren’t OP before, then I don’t see how necromancers are OP now. Frankly, I think this really is a learn to play issue. I give it 2 weeks before people figure out how to counter us, then we’ll be right back where we started. ANet did not address any of our survivability issues. We are still not an attrition class.

Also, learn to not walk into spectral wall. Today I watched no less than 5 people run into the kitten thing 3 times in a row.

Mesmers isn’t really op, just almost. HGH engi had/Have OP pressure but not close to this, mind you they also had no CC with compareable survivability(worse if necro has LF)

Take your time to learn proper keybinding, it’s worth the struggle

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Posted by: cuge.5398

cuge.5398

lol, funny to see so many calling for necro nerf, they was left behind for so long that ppl are not used to consider them a threat.

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Posted by: Sol.4310

Sol.4310

Condition Remove & Stability, are great ways to counter the current necro meta. Just mod your build learn the necro chains, ask a friend who is good at necro to duel you learn what there doing. Once you understand how they work your going to find things allot easier.

Necro’s got the buff they needed, it feels good to face a necro knowing its going to be hard fight.

Stop coming to forums with QQ you just sound like pack of crybabies.

Saizo Sol – Ranger
Twitch – Aussie Streamer

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Posted by: danlarusso.2790

danlarusso.2790

What are you guys babbling about OP? OP would be if i could win 1 vs 2 consistently. I still get ragdolled around by knockdowns, knockbacks and stuns. Instead of turning this game more into bunker wars, we got exactly what was needed – more offense.

As conditionmancer you couldn’t hold a candle vs shadow art thieves (they literally gained health while fighting you), same as D/D eles and guardians with their constant condi removal and boon spam. Only a well placed corrupt boon could even the battle in 1v1 situations. Now we got the needed coverconditions to support the one trick pony that was bleed stacking.

Only problem i see now, is necros using defensive moves like fear offensively. However so do other classes. I am sure that will balance out soon enough.

Funny thing is, for 1v1 i don’t need terror damage from fear btw. New signet of spite, corrupt boon and new torment condition added enough of an edge to stand on even footing against most player builds. Burning and terror damage are just the cherry on top.

So yeah, in the past bad players got gibbed by glass thieves, mesmers, 100b warriors, 100nades engies but rarely from necromancers. Now with the added offense, necros may get added to that list, momentarily.

If 2+ necros are a problem in group composition, just spread your condi removal moves out more instead of fire and forget and then beat the usless necro to pulp like before.

/Chillz [PIMP “Pimp My Dolyak”] Kodash WvW Necro

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Posted by: Vuh.1328

Vuh.1328

Funny how the necros who did good and actully knew how to play seem unhappy now thanks to the patch..

Take your time to learn proper keybinding, it’s worth the struggle

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Posted by: Kravick.4906

Kravick.4906

If mesmers weren’t OP before with all the shenanigans they can do, and HGH engineers weren’t OP before, then I don’t see how necromancers are OP now. Frankly, I think this really is a learn to play issue. I give it 2 weeks before people figure out how to counter us, then we’ll be right back where we started. ANet did not address any of our survivability issues. We are still not an attrition class.

Also, learn to not walk into spectral wall. Today I watched no less than 5 people run into the kitten thing 3 times in a row.

Mesmers isn’t really op, just almost. HGH engi had/Have OP pressure but not close to this, mind you they also had no CC with compareable survivability(worse if necro has LF)

I still don’t see necros 1v2ing good players. Meanwhile, mesmers are still able to do this and more.

Stuff goes here.

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Posted by: Vuh.1328

Vuh.1328

If mesmers weren’t OP before with all the shenanigans they can do, and HGH engineers weren’t OP before, then I don’t see how necromancers are OP now. Frankly, I think this really is a learn to play issue. I give it 2 weeks before people figure out how to counter us, then we’ll be right back where we started. ANet did not address any of our survivability issues. We are still not an attrition class.

Also, learn to not walk into spectral wall. Today I watched no less than 5 people run into the kitten thing 3 times in a row.

Mesmers isn’t really op, just almost. HGH engi had/Have OP pressure but not close to this, mind you they also had no CC with compareable survivability(worse if necro has LF)

I still don’t see necros 1v2ing good players. Meanwhile, mesmers are still able to do this and more.

I don’t see mesmer 1v2 good players either(actully good players in tournament pvp), i’ve seen them 1v2 subpar players but i’ve seen every class do that aswell, even warriors… I’ve seen necro beat Ultima from MiM + Forsaker once in a delayed 1v2, or well i came in and finished them one of them off when it was at 5-10% hp.
He was farming eles and mesmers on a regular basis before patch in 1v1(tournament setting).

No class will really win a true 1v2 against equally skilled people unless it’s WvWvW and they underleveled+undergeared

Take your time to learn proper keybinding, it’s worth the struggle

(edited by Vuh.1328)