Guild Wars 2

IMPORTANT : vote for the way you prefer here : http://strawpoll.me/3632530/

I had a whole bunch of guildies talking about how much they wanted a group group for stronghold. People who hate the current pvp.

If its just another map in the same queue I guess that’s a bust.

I really wish there were separate queues for different gamemodes.

Already if Courtyard gets picked insults start to fly around right at the beginning of the match. I don’t see it being somehow different with Stronghold.

Normally people play to have fun, having the game pick the gamemode for you doesn’t make much sense to me, honestly.
I’m sure you guys have your reasons, but it feels like the kind of direction that ignores feedback; yes, we haven’t tried Conquest, but we have tried a system in which two game modes share the queue, so people’s concerns over this seem valid.

I think it should at the VERY LEAST be seperated from Ranked (I’d prefer seperated from Unranked too). Maybe it doesn’t matter for a lot of random people who arent bothered about their team comp, or how they do, or if you should change your build. But for a team who are partied up to win? They will definitely want some time to change skills, change the build, switch profession JUST because Stronghold appeared.

Stronghold should absolutely have it’s own que since it’s a new gamemode not just a map reskin.
Imagine lol or dota have random mode choice it wouldn’t be nearly as popularas it is, and there is a reason you get to choose which mode you like to play.

Also i hope courtyard is separated too from conquest since it requires other builds too than conquest, and if 1 mode get a low amount of players that play it maybe they should try to remake it so more people play it.

So please let us have stronghold and conquest and deathmatch separated to different queues, and give us templates to save different builds.

Those saying that they want to play all game modes can still do it, but for those who want to enjoy the mode they likes best will then be forced to play other modes sometimes which is not a good thing.

Also i hope we get different mmr ranks on the different modes since they are quite different in playstyle and roles.

The only reason I play conquest is because its the only choice.

I disagree that fragmenting the playerbase is an issue to justify shared queues.

See it this way:

Group A: Only cares about stronghold.
Group B: Only cares about conquest.
Group C: Likes both.

• With shared queues, group C players will continue to play pvp, especially if a build swapping mechanic is added into the game. However, group A and B will avoid pvp out of frustration.
• With separate queues, group A and C will queue for one mode, and group B and C for another. It’s effectively going to split group C players, but the new players it brings (group A) can potentially make up for that.
• In comparison, the current queue system we have today attracts both group B and group C players (excluding courtyard situations), so it’s possible that the upcoming, shared queues end up having the OPPOSITE intended effect: instead of preserving queue times, it will probably make them worse, because it’ll effectively mop away players from group B.

You can only go so far to preserve the population. Taking a risk once in a while might pay off.

Keep in mind that ArenaNet does real betas. And as such it is quite possible that they will change this if enough people give compelling arguments against it (which seems rather hard here on the forums).

Stronghold needs to be in its own queue from day one. This decision is a no-brainer.

worst idea ever to mix multiple game modes in same queue…

Covis.6037:

worst idea ever to mix multiple game modes in same queue…

I watched the stream twice.

- I really enjoyed the map mechanics and liked it comlex structure (while ofcourse final decision i will be able to make when i will play it myselfe);
- I didn’t heard anything about 5v5 or same queue with conquest, but if it is, i’m in crowd of those who says NO for both.

Hvaran.6327:

I watched the stream twice.

- I really enjoyed the map mechanics and liked it comlex structure (while ofcourse final decision i will be able to make when i will play it myselfe);
- I didn’t heard anything about 5v5 or same queue with conquest, but if it is, i’m in crowd of those who says NO for both.

They did mention it on stream. There is also a strawpoll (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stronghold-Poll/first#post4794283) where you can vote for seperate ques (watch out the right answer there is “YES”).

not onyl is the shared queue an insult actually, NO the stronghold map is specificly designed for it, which is even more insulting in the fact that anet said it was GvG evolded at pax. BULLKITTENs AND COWCATS!
the core element of GvG is completly scrached from stronghold.
Strognhold SHOULD have ben GvG taken from GW1 transfered into GW2 combat AND the features of the actual stronghold should have been THE REPLACEMENT for MORALBOOSTS.

The core of Real GvG is not the management of buffs given by the map, rather the skill to over come the opposite team in strategy and combat and THEN to push them back on their own.

stronghold is dumbed down to one lane each team to ESCORT NPCs
and we do know HOW MUCH GAMER SLIKE ESCORTMISSIONS DON`T WE.

butch.8136:

You can only go so far to preserve the population. Taking a risk once in a while might pay off.

Now you say it ?
When ’’WE’’ the mouthly vocal minority on the forums , wanted the company to stop ‘’doing the own things and reinvent the wheel’’ we moaned 24/7 to stop doing it and look in others Mmos-Mobas how they do it .

AND NOW THEY SHOULD TAKE A RISK ?

Nice sig :P
Especially the 3rd part :P
It bring back some nostalgic memories :P

They could basicaly add WvW and random dungeon to same que with Conquest and Stronghold, everyone would be happy… not.

Hello everybody,

I was really excited with stronghold but after they said that it will share queues with ranked and unranked conquest mode I felt really disappointed. I will explain why it should have their own queue in my opinion.

1. As they told us it looks like Stronghold will have a very different metagame from Conquest (different builds, different roles for each player etc.). If both modes are in the same queue the result will be that you cannot specifically prepare yourself for a specific mode , because you will only have 1 minute to change your character or build before the match start…. so it has 0 sense to prepare your team for a Stronghold match because you will probably play a Conquest map (more possibilities, 5 maps vs 1 deathmatch (courtyard) vs 1 Stronghold). So people will create team and builds to play Conquest and they will vote Conquest in consequence so most of the matchs will be in Conquest mode (maybe not the first days, because Stronghold will be the “new thing” but after some time it will be like that).

2. I don’t know if I am wrong… but they stated during the presentation of HoT (24th january) that will be a guild leaderboard… so from that I understood that if you join your guild team you only will face other guild teams in a specific queue for that (most like GW1 GvG mode) . But now it looks like you will play against random teams (guild teams, pug teams, mixed teams, etc), and only if you are lucky and you get a Stronghold map mode and not a Conquest one. Maybe there is something missing that has to be told about that but if we don’t have a specific queue system for that the leaderboard will feel like a total waste of time, because as I told before you will playing Conquest mode most of the times and from time to time you will play one Stronghold game…

Before I end my post I also want to say that I really loved GW1 GvG system and leaderboard (playing it for almost 6 years) and one thing that I loved is the feeling of playing together as a team (even if we had to split 3-3-2, 4-3-1, etc). But with the map design in Stronghold there are a lot of simultaneous objectives (take supply, push line, take hero, defend your line, intercept enemy supplies, etc) and with teams of 5 it looks like we will have to split a lot to cover all those things and giving us more 1v1, 2v1, 2v2 battles more than “teamfights” of 4v4, 5v5, 4v5, 3v3, etc. I can be wrong because we still have to play the game mode and maybe it will not be like that, but every time I think about it I end with that idea.

Putting two gamemodes in one queue would be horrible.

Imagine if after selecting Ranked / unraked the next selection would be:

a) Courtyard
b) Any other map

If new game mode needs to be introduced like seems to be happneing then you must trust that player base will grow to support two separate queues.

and p.s. remove Courtyard completely from other than custom arenas.

Only 1 new pvp map in a full priced expansion? Not sure I will buy it anymore.

ShroomOneUp.6913:

not onyl is the shared queue an insult actually, NO the stronghold map is specificly designed for it, which is even more insulting in the fact that anet said it was GvG evolded at pax. BULLKITTENs AND COWCATS!
the core element of GvG is completly scrached from stronghold.
Strognhold SHOULD have ben GvG taken from GW1 transfered into GW2 combat AND the features of the actual stronghold should have been THE REPLACEMENT for MORALBOOSTS.

The core of Real GvG is not the management of buffs given by the map, rather the skill to over come the opposite team in strategy and combat and THEN to push them back on their own.

stronghold is dumbed down to one lane each team to ESCORT NPCs
and we do know HOW MUCH GAMER SLIKE ESCORTMISSIONS DON`T WE.

actually, ANet explicitly avoided the term GvG. they went out of their way to not utter those 3 words because they knew people would flip their kitten if it wasn’t exactly like the GvG they envision (which in GW2’s case, means anything from large scale TDM to GW1 game modes). people just jumped the hype train and started calling it that.

so at least on that front, you’re at fault for hyping something they never said.

also please stop capitalizing random words. it’s pointless and makes it look like you don’t really have anything to contribute but want to be noticed.

Why would they use the same queue? It makes no sense.

I don’t want to play conquest when I’m going into sPvP to play Stronghold.

I’ve had 2.5 years of conquest – I don’t want to touch it again – the only reason I’m playing it is because it’s the only form of sPVP we have.

feight.2704:

mmm …
what were they suppose to do? i mean… creating another queue to split the already sparsely populated pvp arenas? that would just make the whole pvp experience unplayable. at least for me, if i have to wait any longer for joining a game… zzz
thats why there’s custom arenas, if you wanna play only that map, have fun.
we got map selection too..

Because adding a completely new mode TOTALLY won’t revitalize the PvP scene and increase the community size with people who like PvP but do not like the Conquest format, right? Right?

To be honest I think they are going to split the queues after soo much forum feedback.

The issue here is that the developers of this game are so clueless about pvp that they thought mixing gamemodes was the best option

Marcos.3690:

To be honest I think they are going to split the queues after soo much forum feedback.

The issue here is that the developers of this game are so clueless about pvp that they thought mixing gamemodes was the best option

I hope because they would kill all their work by putting this mode into the same queue.

Stronghold Will fail if it does not get its own que people who want to play stronghold will be very different people who want to play conquest. At least in ranked separate them it be like putting spirit watch sky hammer and courtyard in the current ranked set. It will just be considered another annoying gimmick map to the current pvp player base

In general i think splitting queue could have a positive effect on DM too.

Think about it, now DM is behind an RNG system and it’s on a troll map (Courtyard, really small and really obstructured) with no secondary mechanics (for exampe no improvement buff).

What about if a large part of the community starts to play DM because they like DM? Anet could add different and better maps with different secondary mechanics and this could attract a lof of more people.

Of course it’s the same for stronghold and in general for conquest.

Now stats on how many players like DM are not really usefull because it’s a map behind an RNG system (3 options and there is only 1 DM map, so less chance to be chosen from the roster maps) i think with separated queue, Anet could have really better data about how many players like a game mode.

A system who forces people to play what they don’t want to play is simply bad.

3 Game modes (Conquest, DM and Stronghold) are enough imho, a huge step forward.

And we have already them.

Putting it into the same queue won’t result in more people in circulation/revitalizing Conquest … it will result in people who only come for Stronghold avoiding both game modes altogether. What makes ANet think people who want to play Stronghold, but also Conquest, aren’t already playing it right now (thus giving a snapshot of how many people are actually interested in Conquest)?

Seems like ANet has too many CS people, but not a single marketing psychologist. Though to be fair, I didn’t need a psychology degree to come to that conclusion, but not everyone can have as much common sense as me and the people in this thread.

EDIT: I’ll break it down more understandably. Once the mode hits, there will be exactly three types of people:

1. Those who care only about Stronghold.
2. Those who care about both equally (i.e. like both or don’t have strong opinions either way)
3. Those who care only about Conquest.

The large majority of group 1. can’t be bothered to “enjoy” boring, stale Conquest matches, disrupting their fun and suck away time from their free evening. They won’t play the queue at all.

I don’t see a reason why group 2. isn’t playing Conquest RIGHT NOW (or have done so historically), since the enjoyment they derive it would be the same as from Stronghold.
That Conquest never was really popular in the last 2 years proves that this demographic wouldn’t be very large compared to group 1. or pure PvEers/WvWers.

For group 3., once the novelty of the new game mode has worn off, they might stop playing the queue as well.

I think we are in a “point of no return” for pvp scene and all depends on Anet choice.

2 super important decisions:

1- Splitting queue for every game modes (conquest, DM, Stronghold)
2- Increase the balance frequency (really important too)

With 2 these steps, PVP scene can grow A LOT.

The alternative is game over.

In my opnion, Ranked games should have all modes on rotation to constantly challenge teams / people playing Ranked. Just as well, having all Ranked players on the same queue increases the pool of players and thus allows for more even matches.

However, I believe Unranked games should have different queues for all modes, allowing players to play whatever they are feeling like at that time.

Ranked = Competitive
Unranked = Fun

That should be the basic distinction between these queues.

Speaking about UI change, the only change they need to make to the interface is when people click on Practice/Unranked/Ranked there are boxes where you can choose the game mode. After that everything continues like we have now. Because we have for now only 1 map for DM and stronghold, there is no map selection for DM and stronghold, so the process is faster.

And for Practice, there are A LOT of servers really empty or close to be empty, simply convert any of them in Stronghold and DM.

This costs extra work? Yes Indeed but the expansion is not free, we’ll pay money for it.

And we want a good final product. Not an early alpha access.

MarkPhilips.5169:

I think we are in a “point of no return” for pvp scene and all depends on Anet choice.

2 super important decisions:

1- Splitting queue for every game modes (conquest, DM, Stronghold)
2- Increase the balance frequency (really important too)

With 2 these steps, PVP scene can grow A LOT.

The alternative is game over.

+1

Personally i don’t have much issues playing differents game modes on the same queue…
i play a roamer most of the time , so i guess i can adapt to many situations, and i always slide in a little support in my build so i can fill a role in every game type.

i take the time to say this because, the setup i play, in itself, represents my preferences in spvp: i enjoy spontaneity and on-the-spot adjustment that will win a game. i guess what i am trying to say is that there really are some players, and i like to cont myself as one of them, who really just enjoy the whole spvp experience. i’m still planning on paying a some conquest and deathmatch after the release of HoT plus a lot of Stronghold.
Playing only one game mode in a game with such a complex fighting system will get stale anyways, Conquest did exposed that fact. but map preference is already somewhat implemented in the current map selection system. right now i play ALOT of Silent Temple because i up vote it and its a popular map. Stronghold would just be the new Temple.
But i guess the Vocal community as spoken. now lets just see how Anet Reacts. i propose, so no one get Penalized, 4 distinct queues will be needed (following that logic) i.e: a deathwatch queue, A Stronghold queue, one For Conquest queue and….a Elite one Including all Game Types

This merging of queues really feels like short-term thinking. It’s terrible for the players. It’s so bad in my opinion, I really can’t fathom how it was agreed that this was the way to go. There isn’t a player that wants agency removed from the equation when it comes to picking the mode they want to play.

Thing is, different game modes isn’t intrinsically bad: it prevents certain builds from dominating. It’s what I loved about Heroes Ascent in GW1, that you had to progress through all sorts of different game modes to get to Hall of Heroes, and that stopped people from making cheesy builds that were only good at one thing.

However, Stronghold is BRAND NEW! It’ll need extensive testing and rebalancing in the months after release before it’s really ready for primetime. It’s absolutely not fair on people who care about their leaderboard rank to just drop it into ranked arena! Not only that, but it must have its own separate leaderboards as well. I don’t think the first 3 months of stronghold can be treated as anything more than an open beta, and to drop a new, untested map into ranked queue will make a joke of the competitive side of the game.

Nor do I think it should be put into unranked arena either: in that queue, Stronghold will hardly ever come up, since it has to compete with all the tournament maps plus Skyhammer/Courtyard/Spirit Watch! That’s 7 other maps! People who want to play stronghold will often have to play 2-3 Conquest games before Stronghold EVEN COMES UP IN MAP SELECTION, and even then it’s not guaranteed to get chosen (there’s always one guy who votes Skyhammer…)!

Imagine the frustration this will cause people – particularly people who don’t like Conquest and have only come back to pvp to try Stronghold! I don’t think dividing the playerbase is a good rationale for putting Stronghold in the conquest queues if the solution ends up frustrating the playerbase and driving them away instead!

Finally, I genuinely think that 5v5 will turn out to be too small for Stronghold. There’s just so many different objectives on that map (2 trebs, 1 supply card, your gates, enemy gates, 2 gatebreaker spawnpoints, 2 hero spawnpoints) that I think further testing will prove it to work better with 6v6 or 8v8. If they drop it in the Conquest queues, they won’t have the option to ever change the size of the game, because a full team signing up for the queue must be able to play either Stronghold or Conquest! If you give Stronghold its own queue, then you can tweak it to your heart’s content without affecting the Conquest scene.

Well, I had high hopes for Stronghold, but seeing as it’s just another sPVP 5v5 mode I’m not even mad; just disappointed.

It should be it’s own separate mode and not lumped together like it’s being dulled out.

This makes me not want to play sPVP really because of how cluttered and nonsensical it is now with all these different objectives.

manveruppd.7601:

Thing is, different game modes isn’t intrinsically bad: it prevents certain builds from dominating. It’s what I loved about Heroes Ascent in GW1, that you had to progress through all sorts of different game modes to get to Hall of Heroes, and that stopped people from making cheesy builds that were only good at one thing.

Honestly, HA have been the grandfather of cheese builds, lol. IWAY, VIM-Way, Bloodspike, Contagion, etc. etc… About 5% of the teams played honorful balanced, the rest played pure cheese. Thats why all serious teams played GvG instead of HA.

Anyway, im on the same opinion about stronghold. It absolutly needs a seperate queue!!!

With the introduction of guild halls I was expecting this new mode- Stronghold to be very similar to GvG from GW1. What I mean by that is that each guild should be able to choose their own guild map and the stronghold should be played on the map chosen by the weaker (in leaderboard) guild. But instead of this we get another game mode played only on one specific map (like courtyard= deathmatch). I was expecting a lot more from paid expansion.

Honeslty i had the same feeling, stonghold linked to guild hall.

However, put it behind an rng system is the worst idea ever.

I hope They can change idea after this strong community feedback.

[quote=4801384;Mister Fluffkin.7358:
Honestly, HA have been the grandfather of cheese builds, lol. IWAY, VIM-Way, Bloodspike, Contagion, etc. etc… About 5% of the teams played honorful balanced, the rest played pure cheese. Thats why all serious teams played GvG instead of HA.

Anyway, im on the same opinion about stronghold. It absolutly needs a seperate queue!!![/quote]

That’s totally true, but having played in a few cheese builds myself I know that most of them only ever had a chance of reaching HoH if they got lucky and skipped the maps they were weak at! ;D At least in the beginning, Nightfall brought a lot of paragon skills you could bring as a secondary that gave them a fighting chance on non-deathmatch maps too.

But yeah, bottom line is we both agree (as does almost eveyone else in thi thread, it seems): Stronghold needs its own queue!

This issue can’t get buried. Not splitting ques is the worst thing they came up with since Skyhammer.

If we have to cry 1 year before they make the right call again then I’m afraid there won’t be anyone left in PvP by the end of the year.

Heck, I don’t even queue, but I’m going to skip around hotjoin arenas to exclusively play Stronghold based on the current information and my general dislike of Conquest.

The fact that you won’t be able to choose Stronghold as a game mode to queue is highly unfortunate.

I would still like to hear from ArenaNet if they would be so kind as to illuminate what they thought were the pros and cons of merging the queues of Stronghold and Conquest. It would greatly help to see what the reasoning behind this was.

It’s one thing to keep us in the dark about what’s coming up int he game, but I can’t recall another game doing this ever. I think there is good reason for that too.

Iason Evan.3806:

I would still like to hear from ArenaNet if they would be so kind as to illuminate what they thought were the pros and cons of merging the queues of Stronghold and Conquest. It would greatly help to see what the reasoning behind this was.

It’s one thing to keep us in the dark about what’s coming up int he game, but I can’t recall another game doing this ever. I think there is good reason for that too.

The only possible reason is this:
-Stronghold is boring/flawed and they know. So if they implement a stronghold queue it will be empty

i am looking forward to the new Stronghold Gameplay type. What i don’t look forward is it being queued with conquest. Stronghold has the potential to let the PVP community grow if it can be played dedicated (just like the different PVP styles in GW 1) . Please consider giving it its own queue instead of throwing it all on one pile. In my opinion it will put many enthousiast off who are looking forward to stronghold as its own entity.

2 Truths:

1) PvP population is low
2) PvP is conquest

Summation: Not many people stick around for conquest

Now we have a ‘new mode’, but how can we get the most out of it? Let’s force the remaining PvP population, and new-comers, to keep playing conquest for a random chance to play stronghold. -_- And no: we’re not giving them templates. That would eliminate the need for players to buy additional character slots just to circumvent having to respec in 90 seconds while discussing battle plans with their team, and that’s definitely SOME money lost. Can’t have that.

Besides: although it’s being marketed as such, stronghold isn’t that much different of a mode than conquest, so tell these fools to QQ. It’s still 5v5, it’s still based around PvE elements. Listen, my boss was like: “mobas, so hot right now”, and a couple of kids in the PvP forums were like “turn GW2 pvp into a moba! esportz! yeah!”, so we did it. We’re playing to both sides here, so don’t act like the remaining players are too good to sit through the same old crap they have been for 2 1/2 years just to get a taste of GvG… I mean mobaquest… I mean stronghold.

Also, whatever you do, don’t add in dueling, 2v2, or 3v3: it makes balancing issues stand out more, and some casuals may not win every match, thus quitting. That’s just bad business, man. It’s 5v5 or die: that way, no one can really keep track of all the crap going on in conquest OR courtyard, and no feelings get hurt. So what if they all blame each other, get frustrated and quit: we’ll just act like they need to evolve.

Quoting Colin Johanson at PAX South “when you battle on our brand new Stronghold gamemode you are going to be able to form Guild Teams […] and they register on a Guild Leaderboard”.
Now that Stronghold is going to be thrown into the Conquest queue is there going to be an entirely different queue exclusive to Guild matches ?. If not, what is the point of having a Guild Leaderboard if we are going to be matched against random ppl in sPvP ???

Shouldn’t we close this thread already? Get’s me confused to see Ready Up this Friday all the time :p

An official answer would be nice, like “We are reading you guys and we’re valuing this option to split queues because we don’t want to force people to play what they don’t want to play”

All this buzz for a new map ???
Why are we even talking about a new game mode ?
At least for courtyard I did not remember them making so much noise (and they were right not to do it as it changed close to nothing in the spvp scene)