Guild Wars 2

Doesn’t this make an even bigger gap between the players as of now ? The newer players just joining in not having all skills unlocked..playing a few matches vs people that have all skills unlocked.. ? Whats the freaking point of this !? Spvp is dying as we speak,because of pure boredom and lack of innovative game modes and interesting maps.Messing with it’s basis like all of the sudden locking skills out,won’t be something to attrct people to spvp…I honestly don;t get who makes these decisions.The New players are overwhelmed is such a weak excuse,if it is one at all ..Remember that previous game you had,guild wars 1 or something,where every class had what..500 skills available ? Overwhelming stuff !…still lots and lots more fun then our current skills system.Locking things out is not gonna work in your favour…espec not if you treat your players like theyre a bunch of braindead kittens…..“overwhelming”….my god.

As others have pointed out prior to my post, I also firmly believe that this is an extremely horrible idea, that needs to be scrapped and buried as soon as possible. Ideas like this honestly baffles me, and it really makes me question the persons in charge, of this part of the game, when beyond stupid suggestions like this are brought out to the community.

It basically goes against the fundamental principle of Gw2 SPvP; Equal footing. I personally would, without a doubt, prefer if these changes didn’t went through, as I have no urges to be superior over other’s because I had the ability to purchase and unlock certain amulets, sigils and utilities. From my point of view it looks very much like this is done in order to create grind, for the sake of grinding.

If this is what they have to offer in terms of upcoming changes we might as well call it a day, uninstall and find something better to do.

I’m still waiting to see them fixing this crazy condi meta when every1 is just kiting and spamming condis (so skillfull play! Like a pro in korea from SC LOL). But what I see is just even worse implementations goin.

Time to find other MMO sadly.

It makes a lot of sense if u see it through the eyes of a pve player, and gw2 is a pve game with some sidekicks, even pvp is now played by pve players that saved it from an extremely low playerbase.
Pve players work in the sense of progression and pvp doesn’t have any progression other than cosmetics (and for pve players that is not enough, by far). But introducing stat progression is a no no, too many pvp players still playing, so unlocks are a good way to introduce progression (and u can eventually introduce stat progression when enough pvp players left).

I don’t see anything wrong with it.

If they add progression to pvp in this game i can see a massive exodus happening

Unlocks are not needed in pvp.

I don’t mind unlocks as long as those only exist for the sake of tutorial purposes. That means that, an experienced player should very easily be able to unlock everything and very early in the game.

About new players, their lack of skills means that the playfield will never be even. So unlock works better for them, because it allows them to slowly experiment or memorize each effect as they unlock it.

To emphasis my point, I’ve even present it in different words:

Yes to guide new players.
(Absolutely) No as a main form of pvp progression.

So the leaderboards dont work, matchmaking is all over the place, lots of traits still not sorted, still some skills not working as intended. Still only got one game mode and a handful of maps.

Yep, with all the issues that PVP has its good they are ignoring them and just looking to add more grind into this game. ANet appears to not know how to engage the player without resorting to grinding.

As much as this game wants to be different from WoW, its basically going to end up exactly the same. Sure it looks different and the combat feels different, but you will still have to log on and grind out to get stuff, you will still be playing the FOTM patch balance gamble.

Also, why not impliment a rank level requirement for arena, something like 8 so they can atleast pick up how the game is played. Nope, lets not do something that would help, lets add some grind, so now new players in arena will not only not have a clue, but now they wont have the right gear.

WOO HOO, ANet is so good at fixing game, please fix more things!

I play sPvP on a daily basis for multiple hours a day but guess what – I STILL haven’t had a chance to use the new heals because I simply cannot deal with the boredom of PvE.

Litany of Wrath, for example, would fit in perfectly in my DPS Guardian build. But I can’t try it because of this ADDITIONAL layer of grinding. Where the heck did it come from? Why is it even here? Your reasoning for implementing the ‘unlock’ features in sPvP is just bad. I tell all my friends that are trying to get into sPvP that they won’t get ‘owned’ or ‘destroyed’ thanks to the leveled footing we all get to start on.

If you don’t get rid of unlocks in sPvP where will it take it a few months, or years down the road? Especially if it pertains to sigils, armor runes, etc, etc, and not solely skins/purely aesthetic items?

Just like you pulled away from eliminating ranks, you should do the same with this lousy update. Seriously.

Nobody wants it.

All in spvp need to be free.

The cost of new heal too is against the original philosophy of spvp.

Grandine is ok for pve, not for spvp.

Anet went to greedy with the unlocks. I understand they want to implement gold sinks if they remove the glory system but they are killing the only concept that makes this game playable.

The 20 skill points healing was already a huge fail from their part, if they continue with this philosophy they will stability stomp this game.

I can understand terribad maps like skyhammer, I can understand terribad matchmaking, I can understand the big imbalance, I can understand the AI builds and the spam, I can understand the effects clutter and the mindless fotm builds … but character progression in PvP?

C’mon anet.

This is one thing that shouldn’t be added becauseit was from gw1

http://strawpoll.me/1038207/

Everyone in sPvP needs to be on an even playing field. The healing skills is already awful and I would be more angry about those if they weren’t all sub optimal (except the new Mesmer one). But continued unlocks will make it more and more difficult for someone that is returning to the game to play with everyone else. And current players will have to focus on getting unlocks to keep up with everyone else, not on increasing their skill with all the tools they access to.

Love all the thumb ups in this thread. Looks like more of PvE is coming into SPvP… keep those mindless farmers in their dungeons please. We’re fine with them not playing PvP. Shoo.

Anet seriously needs to rethink this. It’s not too late now.

For some reason they believe that people don’t pvp because they have no progression.

This is NOT the case. Anyone I’ve asked about why they don’t pvp is because they don’t like conquest only maps, or they just don’t enjoy pvp. Adding progression of anything more than cosmetics will cause you to lose the few who have stuck through pvp.

The vast majority of your main pvpers don’t even have 80s. They like being able to delete and remake characters on a whim. Event account wide unlocks are stupid because new accounts still come at a disadvantage.

Stick to what you promised and leave the grinds and unlocks in finishers, and skins. Everyone should have access to ALL stats in pvp from day 1. Grinding out a stat someone may need puts them at a disadvantage and will only discourage new pvpers from entering the scene.

Adding gold was a good start, add incentives, not a grind.

I totally support a system of unlocks, but in pvp strictly (i.e., no grinding in pve). Ideally, this would serve as compensation for how they gutted the gear unlocks in the old rank system. While unique armors and weapons aren’t much to ride home about, they were at least something we could be slightly proud of; they were something that gave us a sense of progression. As it is now, there’s nothing to distinguish pvp veterans from newer players. Nothing that makes us feel like we’ve accomplished anything.

Let me ask you, does that sound fair?

If you’re content with some lame rank finisher and a meaningless number next to your name, wonderful. Personally, I think our time in pvp is worth more than this. Personally… I want progression to mean something. If that means we get to unlock new stat combinations, skills, and gear purely within pvp, I’m all for it. That’s considerably better than what we had before. And if you think that’s unfair to new players, then I say you’re being a hypocrite. Why should pvp be on a perfectly even playing field when there is so much gear inequality in pve and wvw? I don’t hear anyone complaining about that.

Sure, it’s kitten’ing awesome when you’re new to the game. And you get everything the top ranked players get. Almost like you got your legendary and all your ascended gear the moment you installed. But how much fun would that be? You won’t be a newbie forever. Eventually, you’ll want something to show for your time. You’ll want to distinguish yourself. Brag, whatever. You can’t do that if there’s absolutely nothing to strive for. But unfortunately, that’s exactly where we are now. The devs have nothing left to reward us with besides these minor customizations to our characters.

Complain and rage all you want, but this is a brilliant idea and a great addition to pvp.

This is a terrible idea. There are many, many other ways to help the new players. Just add an NPC that will play a cinematic and explain everything about PvP. And it’s not even that complicated really, there are only 3 vendors and new players can play around check all the stats, have some fun gearing up and choosing their preferable combination, it’s not a bad thing really, they like it. Seriously, don’t bring unlocks!!!

I agree. There is no reason for this, there are hardly any skills in the game, how could a new player get overwhelmed?

milo.6942:

It’ll be fine, jesus what a bunch of crybabies. As long as you can unlock a new thing after a game or two it’ll give the pvp game a small feeling of progression. PvP veterans will (should anyway, idk how unlocks work) have them all quickly and barely notice it, whereas new players will have an incentive to play a few more games to try out a locked skill that looks interesting. It is a net gain for the game and should increase new player retention.

New players already have an incentive to grind.

The progression to look good. I don’t feel like I am forced to grind for it, but if I progress enough, it is a bonus for me.

Grinding power will always feel forced no matter what.

Please rethink this anet, you made a post before saying “We are finding a solution to needing to pay for heal skills”, I remember it clearly. Why are you going back on this?

Marcos.3690:

if they continue with this philosophy they will stability stomp this game.

People were asking for progression in pvp, now they are turning back on their tracks, well then which is it !? Also i quoted your reply because it’s never too late to corrupt boon the guardian.

Lachanche.6859:

Marcos.3690:

if they continue with this philosophy they will stability stomp this game.

People were asking for progression in pvp, now they are turning back on their tracks, well then which is it !? Also i quoted your reply because it’s never too late to corrupt boon the guardian.

lol progression isnt taking stuff that we already have available ingame and putting a price tag on it

100% agree unlocks are not the way to go. Im baffled by some of the decisions lately after months of positive ones. First the change to WvW realm rotations that leaves wvw feeling stale, predictable, and boring from week to week because it doesn’t stress your realm to be better playing the same people constantly.

Then if this unlock thing goes through, sheesh. It’s baffling how they decide to make these changes. It seems to just be over analysis.

Agreed.

Returned from long hiatus and I have no direct access to the recent skillpoint unlockable Heals.

It feels like another PVE or WvW unlockable which negatively influences the feeling of progression we desperately need in SPvp.

You leave players with only one option: grind old content for skillpoints to unlock new content, because it is better than original content.
Alternatively, they should not care because the new content is intentionally weaker than original content?

I agree with what many are saying. I played a good amount of pvp in GW1 and the only reason I EVER pve’d was because I wanted the skin. So when I found out that GW2 had this nifty system that allowed me to negate the horrendous brain-numbing grinding that was required to have good looking armor or skills I was relieved. What is the point of introducing this NOW when it has been an open book all this time? Instead of putting locks on things why doesn’t anet try to EXPAND on game modes….this is going in the opposite direction…instead of expansion its like being caged. If there is any implementation of grind to pvp in order to have options it really is a sad day for this game.

In short anet….stop putting limits on this games pvp when it is already hugely limited BY ONE GAME MODE. If your idea of progressing the pvp scene is to limit it, I would hope you would take a step back and think about what you are doing.

Please keep us all on equal footing, it makes the game assessable to everyone, and makes the game stand out among its competitors. Progression should stay with cosmetics imo.

Guys, If this goes through, it’ll get worse, way worse, just like this idea came from using skillpoints to unlock new healing skills.

Imagine how bad this could become, imagine gear tiers in SPVP unlock-able only with glory or skillpoints. These Ideas are ruining the fundamental things that guild wars 2 is known for, and that is equal-footing, and working ONLY for cosmetics.

We need to stop these stupid ideas from getting into the game, we need more people to make some noise and hope this goes away, just like they kept the rank system!

I’ve just recently started playing tPvP again after a while (3k+ hours of gametime in mesmer alone but only level 31 in pvp), and although I know I can afford the unlocks if it’s sp or gold requirements, I still don’t think anything that affects stats/gameplay in GW2 pvp should be gated in anyway. It’s fine if it’s just cosmetics, but as many have mentioned, pvp has always been intended to provide equal footing for new and old players alike as far as gear and build go so WHY IN THE WORLD are you going against that idea now? If I wanted to grind [intended as a hyperbole, just preempting whatever the cost of unlocking will be], I’ll do it in PvE where it is pertinent.

No progression please

If they do this, they are going against so many people in the community. I sincerely hope they realize that this is not what the community wants, and works to steer it in another direction.

I already don’t play that much anymore, but if they do this, I just won’t want to play at all anymore.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

the original guild wars 1 had lots of unlocks.

please read “who moved my cheese?” then accept and move on.

guild wars did have all unlock system. If you found it in PvE, you could use it in PvP. If you gained PvP currency you could use it to unlock hero’s for PvE. However you didn’t need to do any of these things if you didn’t want, you could just use it to buy keys and then sell those keys for in game monetary currency and/or use to open PvP chests which rewarded you with RnG rare items you could use in PvE.

The idea you’re trying to compare the gw1 unlock system to the propose gw2 system is like comparing apples with road kill. Gw1 made the PvP/PvE reward each other. The gw2 system…um,…errr,…well,…cough..it’s trying to do something, what that something is no one is entirely sure.

No unlocks in PvP please.

Everyone should be on equal footing gear /skill selection-wise.

so we have been fed all these HIGHLY positive market reports from you guys, but what you’ve been keep doing is making your game more and more like the games you are supposed to differentiate from.

Please, just stop this, or you are about to unlock your own doom.

100% agree, do not make unlocks in PvP Anet, bad idea.

It’s ironic that this game was marketed as a skill based game… and as time has gone on it has rapidly crept away from this approach. The skill gap is so TINY compared to when this game first came out, and it keeps getting worse.

Completely agree. Despite PvEing my way into an abundance of skill points (so this won’t really be an issue to me) it’s going against their ideals for the game at release.

The “smooth introduction for new players” line is clearly an excuse for adding unnecessary sinks to the game and it’s certainly an unattractive lie which most of the players are well aware of.

If they’re going to add any form of grind based unlocks how about they start adding some unique rank based armour skins to give more incentive to play rather than to avoid sPvP entirely.

Any chance a dev that see’s this could reply with their thoughts on the reaction so far in this thread?

Oprah.1347:

Any chance a dev that see’s this could reply with their thoughts on the reaction so far in this thread?

The new amulets will be unlocked similar to how the heal skills were unlocked? So it will cost an equivalent of 300,000 glory and 40 gold? So it will cost gold once glory is removed and we buy skill points? How fast can I unlock things while only playing pvp? Will pve players have a 1up over pvp players?

Unlocks are a horrible idea. I wouldnt play pvp anymore.

Oprah.1347:

Any chance a dev that see’s this could reply with their thoughts on the reaction so far in this thread?

We got 2 replies pretty quick at the thread brain-storming about new Amulets. However, this thread remains untouched. Either the devs are having meetings and still cannot make a decision or this is underway and it is too late to reverse it…

Fingers crossed. I hope they realize that this unlock thing does not belong in the Guild Wars PvP franchise.

The only thing that should be unlockable in PvP should be unique colors, Finishers and Ascetics. Like almost every other competitive game.

DiogoSilva.7089:

I don’t mind unlocks as long as those only exist for the sake of tutorial purposes. That means that, an experienced player should very easily be able to unlock everything and very early in the game.

About new players, their lack of skills means that the playfield will never be even. So unlock works better for them, because it allows them to slowly experiment or memorize each effect as they unlock it.

To emphasis my point, I’ve even present it in different words:

Yes to guide new players.
(Absolutely) No as a main form of pvp progression.

This is the best response imo. I’m fine with it if it’s used as tutorial (we desperately need better tutorial for new players), but it should be short enough to finish in a few hours at most.

Wolf.5816:

The only thing that should be unlockable in PvP should be unique colors, Finishers and Ascetics. Like almost every other competitive game.

I like how you call them Ascetics XD Grindy-er than Ascended, eh?
Really, though, if you ask me even cosmetics should have been related to player skill and not be grindy

TainoFuerte.8136:

Agreed, 100%. I don’t even play the game that much anymore, and this, on principle alone, makes me want to just not come back at all.

QFT.

Agreed with those not in favor. SPvP is in a bad enough state as it is, & the last thing I want is a forced grind just to be competitive. New players will be even more overwhelmed if they’re denied potentially meta builds because they didn’t grind for them, much less all the people that make lvl 2 characters specifically for PvP.

Unlockables are not in line with the core values of Guild Wars. Please, give it up

Just dropping by to set a few things straight regarding skill unlocks in GW1…
True, the game has unlocks in pvp…however what most of you conveniently forgot to mention is
1) You can unlock skills for pvp by unlocking them in pve (and vice versa, I suppose, but bringing a pve lowbie to pvp isn’t exactly optimal…and no, don’t need the GW2 pve-to-max-lvl-in-pvp approach because the max lvl is only 20).
2) Pve/pvp unlocks are account-wide for pvp – meaning, as long as you unlocked the skill ONCE on any pve/pvp char, any new pvp character will have the said skill unlocked permanently. Yea, dat means pretty much equal footing once you unlock everything either in pve or pvp.
3) A single-time unlocks are nothing huge, and are actually kinda ok in terms of ‘progression’ and ‘discovery’ (ok, multi account users might not agree on that one).

I consider having your pvp character start off in pve before granted pvp entry to be far more annoying, but hey (or did they remove that?).

I just thought of something.

Why did pvp players need to buy their level/skill points with glory at all? Why wasn’t the amount of matches played per character retroactive to earning xp and granting levels and skill points? PvE characters that power leveled in a under a week have the skill points and gold stock piled.

I think unlocks will be implemented horribly and the length of time to unlock things by only pvping will be impacted by the gold:gem economy.